Indian Education System

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Sumeet
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Postby Sumeet » 31 May 2008 07:21

http://stg.ibnlive.com/news/pollbound-u ... 268-3.html

New Delhi: The UPA Government is very sensitive to the issue of affirmative action, including reservations in the private sector, a policy intent in UPA's Common Minimum Programme which could now remain unfulfilled.

Sources have told CNN-IBN that the Prime Minister's Office has decided not to tinker with the issue in the election year, though officially, the Government continues to maintain it is pursuing the case with the industry.

Social Justice Minister, Meira Kumar says, "We are looking into the matter and the UPA Government has to decide what to do."

The Ministry for Social Justice and Empowerment was initially entrusted with the task to implement the scheme. Later, the PMO took the matter in its own hands and a committee headed by principal secretary to the PM was formed to coordinate with the industry.

With the legislative route being ruled out in the last one year, this committee has met to get feedback from the industry on voluntary affirmative action being undertaken.

However, the progress has been slow with less than 10 per cent of the CII members accepting the voluntary code of positive discrimination and it's unlikely the Government will push this alternative for private sector quota.

Member FICCI Education Committee, Professor C S Venkat Ratnam says, "If the private sector is forced into implementing this reservation, they will also devise ways to not really employing regular employees as such. This has to be done through a voluntary route as it has been done very successfully in North America."

So the Government is now focusing on what it can do on its own. A committee of ministers on Dalit affairs — headed by External Affairs Minister, Pranab Mukherjee — has finalised 16 special schemes for Schedule Caste dominated districts to be announce soon.

POLITICS OF QUOTA

bullet The Common Minimum Programme of the Congress-led United Progressive Alliance suggests that there be job reservations for scheduled castes and scheduled tribes in the private sector. Public sector companies, where reservation has been in existence for a while now, have all been implementing Voluntary Retirement Schemes. Jobs in PSUs are not growing and politicians feel the number of job opportunities available for the so-called backward castes are dwindling. The logic behind job quotas in the private sector is that scheduled castes and scheduled tribes will have greater opportunity or economic and social mobility.




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Postby Singha » 02 Jun 2008 17:13

I am surprised people have not posted this. there will be 6 new IITs from
this year onward. they will function initially from rented premises and offer usually around 3 branches and 120 seats each.

this would bring the number of JEE seats to around 6800. hopefully
the new places can scale up and total seats can be made around 10,000
in near future if each can offer 10 UG branches and 60 seats in each.
still nowhere near enough, but a start at democratizing for our needy
country.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 087142.cms

From this year, 6 new IITs and 700 more seats
31 May 2008, 0135 hrs IST,Hemali Chhapia,TNN

MUMBAI: There's a new joke doing the rounds in engineering coaching classes: Don't kill yourself studying because every fourth student today is bound to get into an IIT. ( Watch )

Overnight, India's exclusive engineering club has been expanded. The Union HRD ministry has decided to open six new IITs instead of just the three which were supposed to begin operations this year in Bihar, Rajasthan and Andhra Pradesh. There will now be 13 IITs with a total of 6,872 seats. More than 700 seats have been added thanks to the six new IITs.

On Wednesday, the ministry sent a directive ordering the IIT's Joint Admission Board (JAB) to admit students to three more IITs in Orissa, Punjab and Gujarat. Sources in the ministry said the decision was taken "all of a sudden". The directive came as a "shocker" to the JAB members who had convened in Roorkee to prepare the final merit list.

The UPA government at the Centre had announced that it would set up eight new IITs during the 11th Five Year Plan. Sources in the ministry said that the new campuses have been opened to accommodate additional OBC students. Six of the seven older IITs are implementing 9% OBC quota this year, while the seventh, Roorkee, is implementing 12%. The new IITs are implementing 27% OBC quota.

With Orissa going to the polls soon, this is also being seen as an election move. In the case of the other two, both Punjab and Gujarat have been asking for their own IITs for quite some time now.

New IITs to offer three courses in first year

Classes for IITs in Punjab, Orissa and Rajasthan will function out of the IITs in Delhi, Kanpur and Kharagpur respectively, according to officials.

"Temporary locations have been identified for the other three IITs," said N M Bhandari, chairman of JEE 2008.

Each IIT will have 120 seats and three courses will be offered in the first year.

he HRD ministry's diktat has forced the IIT directors to step on the accelerator to meet the new challenge.

"We are meeting next week to work out how to mentor the new IITs," said IIT-Guwahati director Gautam Barua. His IIT will parent IIT-Patna, and Barua plans to send eight faculty members to Patna for the first year. Similarly, the IIT in Gujarat will be mentored by IIT-Bombay and will work out of Vishwakarma Government Engineering College in Chandrakheda.

IIT-Bombay director Ashok Misra said he would hire new faculty for the Gujarat school. "Besides, we will send some of our faculty members and rope in some of our retired faculty too," he added. Two more IITs — in Himachal Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh — are slated to start next year.
Last edited by Singha on 02 Jun 2008 17:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Singha » 02 Jun 2008 17:19

oh btw the JEE #1 this year Shitikanth Barnwal, son of a doctor couple from Patna spent the last two years in Kota :rotfl: he must have appeared from Kota itself hence the mumbai zone tag

so even A+++ types are into the tuition system now. he has also been
selected for the intl physics olympiad.

---

a BLR girl was tops among girls:
This year 78,159 girls appeared for the JEE 2008 and 840 of them were able to crack it. The number of girl candidates qualifying the exam has increased by 43 per cent since last year.

N. Vasuki from the Madras zone has topped the list of girl candidates, having secured an All-India 14th rank.


---

I think some EyeEyeTee Chennai coffee n crisp yindu types will sniff at this turn of events....:rotfl: you know who you are...you elitists you :twisted:

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Postby Saral » 02 Jun 2008 19:16

IIT Hyderabad starts in July 08. To be taught in MoD premises (Yeddumailaram); will eventually move to permanent location along NH9 to Pune, 15 km west of BHEL.

With CSE, EE and ME (40 students each).. further expansion a few years down the road

To be staffed by commuting IITM faculty initially (adverts for full time faculty following act in parliament)

Looks like all the new IITs are following the same pattern (120 initially.. probably take 10 years to reach full intake)

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Postby Bade » 02 Jun 2008 19:38

Singha wrote:I think some EyeEyeTee Chennai coffee n crisp yindu types will sniff at this turn of events....:rotfl: you know who you are...you elitists you :twisted:

It is always the entrenched elitists who do not want to let go of any of their comforts with added competition :) even if from the "kota" kind. But seriously, who would want to go to these new iits run out of cowsheds to begin with...commuting faculty...limited to (EE,CS,ME) who will double as Phys,Math and Chem profs too.

On Wednesday, the ministry sent a directive ordering the IIT's Joint Admission Board (JAB) to admit students to three more IITs in Orissa, Punjab and Gujarat. Sources in the ministry said the decision was taken "all of a sudden".
Why were these states selected, on a political basis, keeping coming elections in mind ?

Raju

Postby Raju » 02 Jun 2008 19:46

the idea is to have one in every state, but congis being congis will be guided by some narrow, short-term agenda.

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Postby Singha » 02 Jun 2008 20:32

well iit-g also started on rented premises in the city proper from AIEE center and the hostel was again rented a few kms away. shuttle buses took the students to and fro. the faculty was a mix of new recruits, transfers from other engg colleges and iits. the current director used to be CSE in iit-k.

its gotta start somewhere and in India we start things first (like building a house) and stuff like elec, water , roads etc follow later :P

but being IITs they will have relatively big and guaranteed funding, so
no problems. iit-g for instance has done a considerable buildout and there's
room for tons more oncampus.

phy, chem, math can also be covered by deputed faculty just like core
branches. infact they wont be studying any core subject in 1st yr anyway.

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Postby Singha » 02 Jun 2008 20:39

well with 7 old iits, and 8 more in the pipe by 4Q09 all the major states
are covered. only kashmir, kerala, karnataka, chattisgarh and jharkhand come to mind as the leftouts. I am sure kerala and karnataka can swing
enough clout to get their own in next 5 yr plan if not all of them (I am in favour of all).

thus the IIT system would finally reach 100% coverage and be almost a
parallel system to the NITs.

doing away with the AIEEE and converging on JEE to select for both makes
sense at some point. as also a increasing of funding to NITs which is currently quite less compared to IIT.

the next step in parallel is to fix science education , the IITs are already
trying with their integrated science degrees but other large public univs in
the major cities must be dragged up into a certain level and not merely
serve as a holding pen and 'base' for people writing mba/upsc/banking :roll:

India must inspire some real fear again on all fronts.

Karkala Joishy

Postby Karkala Joishy » 02 Jun 2008 23:54

I think Yeddy Bear should try to get us an IIT-Mysore as well.

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Postby sanjaychoudhry » 03 Jun 2008 00:00

all the major states are covered. only kashmir, kerala, karnataka, chattisgarh and jharkhand come to mind as the leftouts.


Chhattisgarh is getting IIIT instead.

IIIT to be set up in Chhattisgarh

The central government will set up a world-class Indian Institute of Information Technology (IIIT) in Chhattisgarh, for which the state government will offer land soon.

The state's Bharatiya Janata Party government said Saturday that the central government has agreed to open a world class IIIT in the state and the site will be chosen by the state government shortly.

"The state government thanks Minister of State for Power and Commerce Jairam Ramesh for announcing at a function held Friday at Sipat in Bilaspur district to set up an IIIT in Chhattisgarh," a government press statement said.

"The state government will soon provide the location for the new IIIT as the announcement was made by the central minister as per the initiatives taken by Chief Minister Raman Singh April 20 when they had a meeting in Raipur," the statement read.

Officials said that the state government may offer a massive plot for the IIIT in Naya Raipur where the government is presently developing a new satellite town that will replace Raipur as the new state capital of Chhattisgarh, probably by 2011.

Naya Raipur, about 20 km east of here and located between national highways 6 and 43, will be spread out over 8,000 hectares.

Link

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Postby derkonig » 03 Jun 2008 12:12

And ppl don't forget the eye eye yum shillong which starts this year with 60 seats for first batch.

Karkala Joishy

Postby Karkala Joishy » 03 Jun 2008 23:00

Singha wrote:oh btw the JEE #1 this year Shitikanth Barnwal,


Imagine the kind of teasing he must have gone through with a name like that..

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Postby Stan_Savljevic » 06 Jun 2008 15:28

Singha, moi biting your bait :P
Singha wrote:well iit-g also started on rented premises in the city proper from AIEE center and the hostel was again rented a few kms away. shuttle buses took the students to and fro. the faculty was a mix of new recruits, transfers from other engg colleges and iits. the current director used to be CSE in iit-k.

Intra-IIT faculty transfer has been around for a while now. As you said IITW was heavily helped by many faculty from the other "established" IITs. The lure was also the location. Given that 3-4 new IITs popping up, I doubt if intra-IIT faculty transfer can even lure some of the folks. And whats worse, many of the old school 5 IITs themselves face HUGE crunch for the number of classes and students GoI is envisioning. Since the IITs are NOT YET lowering the bar on fac hiring and the hiring is NOT coming at the speed thats necessary to meet the needs, I am not clear where this is all headed.


its gotta start somewhere and in India we start things first (like building a house) and stuff like elec, water , roads etc follow later :P

This is the standard escape clause. It has to start somewhere. We in India yada yada dharmasya stuff. The price of the pudding is in the eating. What the IIT system has become today is something akin to what I view as an inbreeding frankenstein. People get out of the IITs, some get siphoned off to the IIMs or IT-vity/.branch jobs and very very few get off to higher ed (meaning grad school). I am seeing a huge gap in the immediate conversion rates from undergrad to grad school and beyond (MS/PhD/?!bosadoc/fac). The pipeline is leaking and very badly. Some of the folks who get to a $ job or an IT-vity stuff get tired of the job profile and do end up going to grad school. But its mostly on the MBA side or stops at MS. This is because people are older by the time they enter grad school and the "natural" cushion of pre-marital grad school slog is shrinking or not there.

So democratization comes at a cost. There used to be two pipelines for Indians to get a grad degree in the US in days of yore. Go through IITs, follow the gumbal and end up in maasa land. Or go through other colleges and use innovative schemes to get to maasa land. Now only the second pipeline is leading to good numbers. Cos that pipeline has a huge base. The first one has leaked and is leading to a poor conversion rate. Good or bad is not for me to decide. It used to be that a good % from the first pipeline was decent material that is malleable into something constructive. Exceptions existed, as always. Now that pipeline has only rare elements. Most of them who end up at grad school can be categorized into two distinct categories: supremely clear about future, or absolute doofusi in terms of wtf they want in life. No middle ground. Binary systems are inherently volatile and if led to stand alone for too long are prone to anomolous behavior. Take my rants for what it is worth.


but being IITs they will have relatively big and guaranteed funding, so
no problems. iit-g for instance has done a considerable buildout and there's

This is so untrue. Yes, they have huge cash when compared with the REC system or the other universities. But the expenses are also HUGE. The IIT system also guides and charts the needs for a million other local colleges. When you do the cost account analysis for what goes in and what comes out, its a tight budget. Even more, there have been complaints (vociferous ones at that) from the IITM Dean Ananth about how the politicians promise a huge bullshit budget with huge fanfare, but what they end up getting in their hands is a small fraction of that. Next time someone promises some stupid stuff in the finance budget, take it with a pinch of salt. Edu cess goes all the way to primary education. And even there the cess collection to "goal" translation process is so bloody leaky.


phy, chem, math can also be covered by deputed faculty just like core
branches. infact they wont be studying any core subject in 1st yr anyway.

The problem is with undergrad core branch education which saps the life out of a faculty member. Boy, I would nt wanna teach a class of 120 monkeys like it happens in IIT if I can avoid it. Half the doofuses wont attend and still complain about late submissions/missed extensions etc, another quarter will be there but keep chatterating, of the remaining quarter a handful will bother to understand the nuances and most of them will end up cogging the homeworks or the lab reports from all and sundry. And worse, grading 120 exam sheets with creative answers is a pita. Boss, deputation is a short term fix to a deep problem. The GoI needs to increase the slabs of the pay commission to compensate the faculty better. So that they may get some response from folks who would consider that as enough of a lure. At least 75k is necessary, not the ~22+18+3 system.

I did nt bother to comment previously cos the GoI seems to have anyway decided to fck the system. And my comments are so pointless anyway. I have more or less given up on the hope that this system will be what it was (which I must admit in itself was a terrible mess). It wont be. And if anyone is dreaming that the IITs will be great and what not in another 20 yrs, they should get awake and see the reality. The stuff that will develop in the short as well as the long term, unless someone can fix the hiring of faculty mess + student selection process, will be a big cockup.

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Postby Stan_Savljevic » 06 Jun 2008 15:48

Singha wrote:doing away with the AIEEE and converging on JEE to select for both makes
sense at some point. as also a increasing of funding to NITs which is currently quite less compared to IIT.

The need of the hour is funding contingent on RESULTS. In every decent country (dont cite me pukisatan as an example for contrary arguments), we have accountability as to how the research money was spent (whether it was on paying grad students or faculty themselves or travel or fixed cost or tuition etc). In India, afaik there is no system where the faculty can pay himself from a central grant. They can pull in consultancies and folks at IISc, IITs, NITs etc pay themselves. But the buck stops right there.

The centre should set of a funding agency where a faculty member needs to report on the usage of the grant money and the produced result thereof. Good work (categorized based on some decent standards) need to lead to future grants and unpublishable or essentially frivolous work in engg type fields should not lead to any further grants unless there is further merit to work. The GoI needs to establish accountability, but also needs to be cautionary given the spate of unreproducible research (a la the S Korean stem cell stuff) such a system will produce in the short run. Accountability has to come from top-down, but yea I can hit my head on the wall hoping that GoI will become accountable to its citizens for a while.

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Postby vina » 06 Jun 2008 16:10

Singha wrote:well with 7 old iits,


7 ?..Poor ol challenged me could never count beyond 5 !.. Why 5 ? ..Dont you ask.. That is the way it is. 5 fingers. 5 toes.. PAAAANCH.. !!.. Panch ayat.. Panj(ch)aaab.. Paanch Pyare!..

Magic number 5.. !. johnny come latelyes need to be called as something else.. No brand dilution. Call them Rajiv Gandhi Institutes (like the Rajiv Gandhi Insitute of Petroleum engg).. Leave the Paanch Pyaares alone!

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Postby vina » 06 Jun 2008 16:32

Singha wrote:This year 78,159 girls appeared for the JEE 2008 and 840 of them were able to crack it. The number of girl candidates qualifying the exam has increased by 43 per cent since last year


Nice.. In my batch, there were like 4 wimmin in total in the B.Tech class and none were even half way decent looking. Finally the "curse" of the IITs seem to have been broken. From the law of averages, at least many might be passably looking.. That was what I envied most about the IVY league and top colleges in massa.. The have some absolutely great social life in undergrad and huge numbers of absolutely stunning looking types. Poor IIT ians.. Have to go and hit on the arts/humanities city colleges to even have decent strikes.. even with all that crash and burn while attempting to score!.

I wonder what is it about biological sciences that draws in so many beautiful wimmin to the field. Almost all biological sciences depts in most univs around the world, (including India) have great pyts.. What is it about insects and plants and other critters that attract wimmin in such numbers , I could never figure out. No sir. Nothing in Fyzzics and Chemsitry is even a remotely close draw

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Postby Bade » 07 Jun 2008 08:13

That is what one gets when you get obsessed with "brand dilution". Massa folks don't and they enjoy the wimmens...while BTech folks can just suck their thumbs at such thoughts. :P BTW, MSc folks never had any such problems with female:male ratio almost ~50% in all branches including Math. Same with BSc(Hons) be it DU/CU/JU not to mention the special PYTs at Stephen's and Xavier's.

Talking about accountability of research funds etc in the context of low salaries, there is enough pilferage via purchase orders to make up for the difference. What GoI does not give over the table, some make under the table. I am sure there some even within the IIT system who might be on the radar of the vigilance department. India is all maya onlee even academia.

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Postby vina » 07 Jun 2008 08:18

Bade wrote:That is what one gets when you get obsessed with "brand dilution". Massa folks don't and they enjoy the wimmens...while BTech folks can just suck their thumbs at such thoughts.


Oh, the Ivy league, Stanford , UCB, UCLA and Duke etc are incredibly brand conscious. Somehow , they manage to get lots of pyt wimmin in.. Maybe the gruelling JEE thing is too much for them.. What is about biological sciences and wimmin I wonder though.. massively overrepresented in that field.

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Postby Bade » 07 Jun 2008 08:26

But the UCs/Stanford/Berkeley/Harvard etc do not have many wimmens in Fizziks and other sciences. The only wimmens you see there in grad school are chinese and indians. All native wimmens are in medicine/pychology and other softer sciences :) at least from anecdotal statistics from living in co-ed dorms. 8)

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Postby vina » 07 Jun 2008 08:59

Bade wrote:But the UCs/Stanford/Berkeley/Harvard etc do not have many wimmens in Fizziks and other sciences. The only wimmens you see there in grad school are chinese and indians. All native wimmens are in medicine/pychology and other softer sciences :) at least from anecdotal statistics from living in co-ed dorms. 8)


Yeah.. I agree.. The medicine/psychology/ generally biological sciences and of course the humanities undergrad /grad schools and economics depts are in some univs majority wimmin..stuff like English litt, social sciences and all those nice touchy feely things.. Same with law school and business school. Hmm. Maybe IITs need to open humanities programs .. and become "universities" rather than Technical Schools .. something along the lines of Benares Hindu Univ.. But then what will happen to the brand!!.. and what will the IITs be if they are swamped by an intake of liberal arts/humanities and fine arts types larger than the technology types...

Branding is a difficult praablem onree saar!.. :eek: :eek:

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Postby Bade » 07 Jun 2008 09:25

With more wimmens on campus yes there will be less RGing and mindless competition pre and post-JEE :eek: as more youthful energies will get focussed on extra-curricular ones, that would be the best way to filter out the chaff. The true nerds will still be true nerds not to be swayed by proliferation of menakas on campus. So will not need any grueling JEE for a filter the wimmens will filter out the good talibs from the pretenders...and the pipeline for Stan to tap into will get lean but assured of certain standards. The rest who are lost in campus leelas will also find their salvation elsewhere in industry.

Brand value will stay the same, just an arbitrary offset which gets reset with no impact on the secular trend of increasing super MS/PhD aspirants with time. Since, it is all relative what difference does it make. The best will always remain so the rest will just wade through whatever the system.

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Postby Singha » 07 Jun 2008 12:19

in the old days Devas afraid that some tyrant/rishi would gain too much insight and power through meditation used to give their bevy of apsaras new
projects to distract and dance / make love to the meditating guy.

so its a worthwhile concept - let only the most focussed minds survive the
gauntlet :)

also I think it might encourage some of the iit guys to "grow up" faster.
I find some of them 10 yrs after passing out still carrying on as in college,
playing cricket on weekends, late night beer parties to watch euro football,
not pulling any responsibility at home much to the anger of their wives.

IQ is only part of the game, owning up to responsibility and EQ are also
necessary to be a useful human.

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Postby Stan_Savljevic » 09 Jun 2008 06:13

Bad news. A doyen of Ramanujan studies passes away.

[quote]
Alladi Ramakrishnan, who made fundamental contributions to several fields of study since 1947 and founded the Institute of Mathematical Sciences (MATSCIENCE), died in Gainesville, Florida on Saturday night (Sunday morning 6 a.m. IST). He was 85.

Dr. Ramakrishnan was the Director of MATSCIENCE in Chennai for 22 years, during which he built up an ethos of innovative thinking and an ambience that was ever responsive to new ideas. Now a Deemed University, this institution was inspired by the visit of scientist Neils Bohr to Dr. Ramakrishnan’s family home — the “Ekamra Nivasâ€

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Re: Indian Education System-2

Postby Sumeet » 12 Jun 2008 06:08

St Stephen's to have 50% Christian quota

Monday, June 9, 2008 (New Delhi)
St Stephen's has decided to increase the number of seats for Christians this year. This will be formally announced next week.

What has students and teachers worried now is whether the new quota will eat into the general category, making St Stephen's College virtually impossible to get into.

On paper, Pakriti Arya is an ideal candidate for St Stephen's. With 84 per cent marks, she should be able to get into the BA Pass course she wants. But she knows the odds are against her.

''Even as getting into this college is so difficult and now if they cut down the seats for general category, where will we go? This is really unfair,'' says Pakriti.

The management wants 50 per cent reservation for Christians, another 30 per cent for Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe candidates. So that would leave 30 per cent for general category students.

Teachers say that it is the performance of the general candidates that add on to the reputation of the college and therefore their seats should not be compromised at any cost.

The teachers want that 50 per cent of seats be reserved for Christians, 40 per cent for general category and 10 per cent for SC and ST students, the sports quota and students with special needs.


A final decision on reservations will be announced next week but the 50 per cent quota for Christian has been cleared by both sides.

Even students who will benefit from the new policy are cautious about its impact.

''I am really happy that more number of seats are now provided to Christians but I am also apprehensive that this may lead to class based division between general and Christian students,'' says Endorirni Thangkhiew, a Christian applicant at St Stephen's.

So at St Stephen's, already near impossible to get into, will the competition be even tougher than ever before? That is what keeping the freshers awake at night.

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Re: Indian Education System-2

Postby negi » 12 Jun 2008 07:40

I am very positive about the opening of the new IIT's , for I think that while the new institutes might not match upto (or will need time to come upto) to the Big 6 they will at least provide decent infrastructure in terms of a library, labs and seminar halls unlike the 4-5 storey 'XYZ' institute of technology which have cropped up on the roadsides.

Perhaps one would see senior faculty from NIT's or even good State colleges opting for these new institutes to fill in vacant slots. These new institutes shall not only address the need for more seats in Engg colleges but also do some damage control for Arjun Singh's blunder.

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Re: Indian Education System-2

Postby vsudhir » 12 Jun 2008 08:20

From sumeet's post above:

The management wants 50 per cent reservation for Christians, another 30 per cent for Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe candidates. So that would leave 30 per cent for general category students.


Well, that adds upto 110%, seems like. Unless there're overlaps among the 3 groups aforementioned to the precise extent of 10%. Looks like the admissions are all decided well in advance of even the entrance exams aajkal, why persist with formalities then? Might as well cut out the general quota entirely, to save trees (less paper) and time? But we know that's not likely to happen coz its the general quota merit shine whose afterglow gives reflected credibility to these other quotas ... :roll:

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Re: Indian Education System-2

Postby vina » 12 Jun 2008 10:35

Good.. I think St Stephens will self destruct.. a fitting end to the antediluvian bastion of "privilege" and exclusion based more on good old "haw-haw" ..dilli billi staccato English, and the fact that they were the earliest and "chosen" game in town. The way it will finally end is that it will socially engineer itself to death.. 50% quota based Christians.. lots of powerful dilli billis who pull strings and of course the SC/ST quota.. So basically quota in the broader term will be close to 100%..

Nice.. The academically gifted middle class who built the academic reputation of that place will go elsewhere. Long term, St Stephens, will be like Don Bosco and other missionary schools of Chennai, Bangalore etc..Those missionary schools are leftover derelicts of an earlier age.. Come on. today, no one will have Don Bosco in Chennai as one of their top ten choices of school for kids, though two generations ago, most of the "posh" and "Elite" families would have sent their kids there. The missionary school craze in the south is dead. Dilli Billis and Bhadrabongs in Kolkota still have their fascination with St Stephens, St Xaviers, Loretto Convent and so on.... Kolkota, I can understand, a derelict and decrepit city, characterized by decay and ruin, (both of mind and body, reflected in decaying buildings and) would be incapable of creating anything new.. somehow Dilli and it's capacity for growth and creation, I cannot understand this St Stephen's craze.. Maybe, it was the fount of privilege and the old boy's power elite club, and the Dosco-St Stephen's-Oxbridge route attracts power obsessed dilli billis..

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Re: Indian Education System-2

Postby Nayak » 12 Jun 2008 10:43

Kolkota, I can understand, a derelict and decrepit city, characterized by decay and ruin, (both of mind and body, reflected in decaying buildings and)


Kolkotta has joined the list of cities you despise I presume vina-gaaru.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

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Re: Indian Education System-2

Postby Singha » 12 Jun 2008 11:19

I hate anything to do with DU and JNU on a sweeping basis. strictly for retards, loonies,
rich wastrels, dilletantes, people who couldnt get through into anything tougher, racists
and their cousins and relatives.
time was when the "exposure" and "polish" of being from the redoubtable st.stephens
or yindu college was a leg up in the race for IAS or Mba berths. now that is disproven
very severely esp now that the real exp of getting kicked around in engg job for a
couple yrs is valued in Mba entrance over say protesting outside the american embassy
with a bunch of halter top wearing buddies.
had a friend who was very pukka brit and went to stephens, went to iim, went into
FMCG marketing...what does he do now...ITVity marketing :rotfl:

could have saved him the roundabout route to moksha.

Vina, kolkata is not so bad now...the decay is gone atleast from the newly built
areas, younger people have moved in, ITvity has spruced up the place. the lakhs
of smoky old buses seem to be retired. yet there are areas along the hooghly where
time hasnt changed much in 100 yrs...ancient facades with names like "Mckellan & Lawrie
gun & tobacco shop" :roll: , with a bunch of labour sleeping on verandah in the steamy
afternoons, a urchin or two running around, the creak creak of rickshaw....
but I simply adore the kathleens cakes though and there's a lot of good food to
be had there for non veggies.

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Re: Indian Education System-2

Postby Rahul M » 12 Jun 2008 12:13

Oh, just shut up vina ! :x
when was the last time you visited kolkata ? 1980 ??
Or have you read the city of joy lately ??

this is from 2006, a LOT has happened since then.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=349963
FWIW

This bridge takes you over one of the smelliest slums (it's not a very large slum though) in Kolkata. The encroachments along the railway track constitute a massive votebank (at least that's what politicians would like to believe). Next to it is a Missionary establishment. The politics of religion is in full form here. A few years ago ABC News in a documentary (anchored by a "star" journo) about Capitalism/free market vs Socialism/restricted market compared Hongkong and Kolkata. It panned it's camera across this slum and compared it to Hongkong's glittering skyline. Now that's what is called Economics made easy for the dumb by the dumb.

also check the infra thread. I have posted there so as not to clutter up this one.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3618&p=499927#p499927

and btw, st.stephens is nowhere close to being the preferred destination of 'bhadrabongs' , and it never was !!

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Re: Indian Education System-2

Postby Singha » 12 Jun 2008 12:28

kolkata may be ruled by maoists and their unions but at heart it has always been
a highly capitalist and mercantile city as befits a gateway city on the coast.
If I am not mistaken the voting pattern was strongly to Cong(I) when maoists
had a iron grip on bengal and maybe trinamool and BJP also now?
this may also play into maoists being unable to rig elections so heavily in a large
city with alert people and media around who couldnt be cowed down.

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Re: Indian Education System-2

Postby vina » 12 Jun 2008 13:16

Rahul M wrote:when was the last time you visited kolkata ? 1980 ??


Close.. Posting in Nukkad, not to clutter up this thread.
and btw, st.stephens is nowhere close to being the preferred destination of 'bhadrabongs' , and it never was !!


Oh.. I meant equivalents like St Xaviers etc.. Dont know what the preferred place of the Bhadrabongs were, but back in those does, going off to Oxbridge was the pinnacle of academic achievement for the Bhadrabongs and also Dilli Billis (know first hand from Dilli Billi cousins).

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Re: Indian Education System-2

Postby Rahul M » 12 Jun 2008 13:21

OT.

moved to nukkad.

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Re: Indian Education System-2

Postby Abhijeet » 13 Jun 2008 01:55

Generalizations are so easy to make. All the better if your data is hopelessly inadequate.

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Re: Indian Education System-2

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 14 Jun 2008 11:47

Let me take the initiative in posting the following ppt from Prof. Ananth, Diro IITM on the IITM research park towards which he has been working of late.

Clicky

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Re: Indian Education System-2

Postby Raj » 14 Jun 2008 16:39

Stan, are these figures correct?
slide 17

Country ~Acres No Cos Emp Inv $
China 10000 100 10000 1 m 110b
Singapore 75 2 6.4b
USA 400 100 150 40k 2.8b
UK 15 70 1000 75 k 3.4m
Hungary 179 1000 170k
France 1000 6k 500m
India 10 1 ~100 5k 60m

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Re: Indian Education System-2

Postby Nayak » 14 Jun 2008 17:07

India 'bus school' scheme brings education to the slums

NEW DELHI, June 14, 2008 (AFP) - As the bright yellow bus navigates a maze of potholed alleys to a rubbish pickers' slum, New Delhi's latest scheme for educating the poor draws curious stares.

And when the cartoon-daubed vehicle arrives at the fly-infested camp, it is greeted by a mob of children who swarm around its door.

For two hours, the team of social workers and teachers aboard use food and games to bring learning to some of the city's tens of thousands of children who have never been to school.

'We're developing a patience for school among kids who would never see the inside of a classroom -- they live in the shadows,' said R.M. Mohla, coordinator of the slum education programme.

The Chalta Firta, or mobile school, is Mohla's brainchild, an attempt to meet India's ambitious universal education target of getting all children aged between six to 14 into school by 2010.

But educators have met some resistance from slum dwellers, prostitutes and migrant labourers who say they prefer their children to work, in order to supplement meagre family incomes.

The programme was inaugurated in January by the New Delhi government, which is paying non-profit groups 3,000 rupees (75 dollars, 49 dollars) per year per child to operate the four buses.

Parents were initially mistrustful of the mobile schools, worrying they may be a scam. After seeing it operate regularly for several months, their fears have been quelled, although convincing families to send income-earning children to school remains challenging.

'It's hard for us, we have no choice to make ends meet,' said rubbish-picker Kuppa, father of one of the scheme's success stories, eight-year-old Subyamarni, who is now in a government school.

Subyamarni spent his early childhood sifting trash and collecting recyclable plastic and other items with his father, but now spends evenings doing homework at home and working when he can.

'I like school because I can play games and learn to read,' said Subyamarni.

The bus drew Subyamarni in with its playful exterior -- cartoons and pastel lettering make it look like a nursery school from the outside, although the television and stereo inside do give it the feel of a rock group's tour bus.

'In the beginning parents feared the kids would be taken away. They didn't know what was happening on the bus,' said social worker Durgesh Kumar Gupta, whose job is to knock on doors and convince families to send their children to the bus school.

Since its rocky beginnings, the pilot programme has enrolled half its 450 students in full-time government schools. The mobile teachers consult with the schools of enrolled children to monitor their progress.

Parmot, a seventh grader living in the slum, helps the bus teachers by monitoring attendance of the scheme's graduates at the government school.

'I look for the kids at school and make sure they are coming. They need to learn,' the aspiring cricketer said.

Students who had not showered in months now arrive at the bus with damp, freshly-combed hair and notebooks in which they have done their homework.

As the programme has expanded, the pair of teachers on board have found themselves teaching more than 70 children at a time -- and discovered that controlling so many at once can be exhausting, especially in the summer heat.

'It's very hard on the teachers,' Gupta said at the end of a chaotic session that included maths and badminton.

-- Averting a demographic disaster --

The Indian government has recently begun to give schooling unprecedented attention, promising to triple the education budget, which is four percent of gross domestic product, in the next five years.

A staggering 51 percent of India's population of more than one 1.1 billion are younger than 25, and two-thirds are aged under 35.

Experts say India's 'youth bulge,' which will last until 2050, could turn out to be its greatest asset -- or a demographic disaster if the government fails to provide education and jobs for young people.

'An unskilled, under-utilised, frustrated young population will derail economic growth, undermine harmony and breed violence,' warned prominent civic activist Jayaprakash Narayan, who is based in the southern city of Hyderabad.

Despite the apparent success of the bus scheme, there are critics of Mohla's programme who say it does not serve a broad enough spectrum of needs.

Sunita Chugh, assistant professor at the National University of Education Planning and Administration, who studies the education of the poor, said that with so many children in a small van, 'I don't think the teachers are able to serve the multi-grade needs of the kids'.

India's overall record on improving learning levels is abysmal, with the education system mired in corruption with test papers for sale and a teacher absenteeism rate of 25 percent -- the second highest in the world -- according to a recent UNESCO report.

Literacy levels lag many developing countries, including in sub-Saharan Africa. China's literacy rate is 90.9 percent, Kenya's is 85.1 percent while India's is 65.2 percent.

Nevertheless, Mohla is optimistic about the success of the mobile school programme, and makes weekly visits to the sites, reviews the curriculum, and suggests changes.

'We have to look at the performance of this as a transition ... not a permanent school,' he said, adding that he is now meeting with corporate sponsors and other charities to expand the programme.

And, he promises, the next buses will be air conditioned.

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Re: Indian Education System-2

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 14 Jun 2008 20:34

Raj wrote:Stan, are these figures correct?
slide 17
Country ~Acres No Cos Emp Inv $
China 10000 100 10000 1 m 110b
India 10 1 ~100 5k 60m


I believe so. Cos afaik India has never had a research park that has been directly tied with a university system before. The TIDEL park in Madras was close to IITM, but not related to IITM in the sense that the projects were all stand-alone, and mostly software related. This initiative, I believe, is to leverage research in IITM in the other engg areas (like telecom, mech e, aerosp etc) directly to product development.

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Re: Indian Education System-2

Postby Singha » 14 Jun 2008 22:07

a relative of a friend, a prof with phd in bio related field
is r2ing as a prof in a IIT - he says federal funds have dried up to the
extent where it barely pays his heating and lab upkeep costs.

are others seeing similar dropoffs in NSF and NIH funding lately in the
non ivy-league state run univs ?

Raju

Re: Indian Education System-2

Postby Raju » 14 Jun 2008 22:26

a relative of mine who has two degrees in chemical engineering
is acquiring a *nursing degree* in massaland.
I came to know about it indirectly, the said person is
too ashamed to even confess this truth.


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