Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17652
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 12 Oct 2018 16:50

Singha wrote:And there was no alarm from damaged systems or change in behaviour of plane is amazing looking at the giant gash


No loss of pressurization due to gash in cargo hold??. I guess maybe that the cargo compartment is unpressurized.

They would certainly have felt the jolt, though.

Fuel burn would have been different but what the hell, they were anyway burning sarkari err our taxpayer's fuel, no??

Really incompetent dolts. Absolutely no excuse for such an escapade. A prison term should set them right.

landing on the under construction runway at male, some jet guy taking off from the taxi track in saudi, male pilot bashing up female pilot in the cockpit, and now this.

was it always like this?? or are such issues being highlighted only of late??

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63366
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 15 Oct 2018 09:31

IBNLIVE

Mumbai: A 53-year-old air hostess suffered serious injuries after falling off an Air India aircraft which was getting ready for departure for New Delhi from the Chhatrapati Shivaji International Airport here, a source said Monday.

The incident happened on Air India flight AI 864 operating on Mumbai-Delhi route, according to the airline source.

"The woman crew member was closing the door for the push back when she fell from the aircraft," the source said. She has been admitted to Nanavati Hospital

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63366
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 15 Oct 2018 09:33

it is 777 i checked...the unexpected fall would be brutal on the concrete below...much higher than a 737.

sumsumne
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 14
Joined: 15 May 2004 11:31
Location: Bangalore

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby sumsumne » 19 Oct 2018 18:23

Tatas not OK with Goyal in Jet Airways cockpit, wants complete control over the airline

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/tatas-not-ok-with-goyal-in-jet-airways-cockpit-wants-complete-control-over-the-airline/articleshow/66279553.cms

If Tata can convince Naresh Goyal to take his money and leave the place, it will be a stunning turn in the Indian Aviation scene.

I guess Aditya Ghos is doing the background work on this for the Tatas....

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17652
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 19 Oct 2018 19:41

sumsumne wrote:Tatas not OK with Goyal in Jet Airways cockpit, wants complete control over the airline

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/tatas-not-ok-with-goyal-in-jet-airways-cockpit-wants-complete-control-over-the-airline/articleshow/66279553.cms

If Tata can convince Naresh Goyal to take his money and leave the place, it will be a stunning turn in the Indian Aviation scene.

I guess Aditya Ghos is doing the background work on this for the Tatas....



goyal may not be in control of jet, it is rumoured that he has, on the quiet, and under pressure, already sold a lot of his shares to the owners of etihad even though it is very much against Indian laws.

If someone tries to push goyal out, the whole edifice may collapse like a pack of cards and the tatas have already burnt their fingers very badly with the shady promoter of air asia and his cowboy ways.

A lot of really nefarious things were done under the previous regime and the jet etihad story, sale of routes, shares etc is very very murky.

Vips
BRFite
Posts: 1122
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vips » 19 Oct 2018 20:49

Jet Airways and/or Naresh Goyal do not have much time. Pilots and other debtors are waiting to hear on the next payment of salaries and other dues which are pending since last 2-3 months. Maybe a strike by the pilots will hasten the process of sale/transfer to Tata or anybody else. I wish Tata takes over soon. Indigo will immediately feel the heat.

On the other hand GOI just gave another Rs 1000 Crores to Air Parasite. :cry:
Last edited by Vips on 19 Oct 2018 20:55, edited 1 time in total.

Vips
BRFite
Posts: 1122
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vips » 19 Oct 2018 20:54

chetak wrote:
goyal may not be in control of jet, it is rumoured that he has, on the quiet, and under pressure, already sold a lot of his shares to the owners of etihad even though it is very much against Indian laws.

If someone tries to push goyal out, the whole edifice may collapse like a pack of cards and the tatas have already burnt their fingers very badly with the shady promoter of air asia and his cowboy ways.

A lot of really nefarious things were done under the previous regime and the jet etihad story, sale of routes, shares etc is very very murky.


If true Etihad will be in a spot and cant escape culpability as they are well aware of the rule in share holding.If they have more then the publically disclosed 24% then they had the responsibility to disclose this to the authorities and any holding above 26% entails an automatic trigger and obligation to make an open bid for buying shares from the existing shareholders.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17652
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 19 Oct 2018 22:19

no smoke without fire


Subramanian Swamy Verified account @Swamy39 4 hours ago

Swamy urges CBI to widen the probe against Air Asia & Tata Group officials’ frauds, violations in FIPB, national security norms https://www.pgurus.com/swamy-urges-cbi- ... ity-norms/ … via @PGurus1

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21982
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 20 Oct 2018 10:17

Air Transport Growth in India Threatened by Safety Lapses

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ety-lapses

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21982
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 20 Oct 2018 20:12

Lufthansa A350 Test Flight [English Subtitles]


abhik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2234
Joined: 02 Feb 2009 17:42

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby abhik » 21 Oct 2018 20:50

Any updates on the indigo's plans for buying wide body aircraft to start their long haul routes? Last I heard they were looking to buy a bunch of A330 neos.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63366
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 22 Oct 2018 08:35

a330neo 900 which is the bigger variant has good orders, the neo 800 which is smaller and longer range has not found much success...the base a330 sells more than this one.

so I guess 330neo-900 it will be but a recent media report says while talks are on, fiscal pressure and oil prices have led to no final deal.

on their current international route (like singapore) you still you to pay extra for food :((

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11922
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 26 Oct 2018 01:08

Air passenger traffic data for September:
AAI Sept 2018 traffic data
DEL +12% (on track for >70M passengers this year)
BOM +6.5% (constrained)
BLR +31% (will hit 32-35M this year)
HYD +24% (will cross 20M this year)
MAA +15% (potentially 25M this year)
CCU +15% (will cross 20M this year)
COK -0.3%

DEL will probably overtake Dallas, Paris, Amsterdam, Shanghai and Hong Kong this year, and if it does well, almost catch up with London Heathrow, moving from world #16 into the top 10.

Despite being heavily constrained, BOM should keep moving up the ranks, overtaking Barcelona and Madrid this year and hitting 50M pax.

BLR will exceed design capacity by >50% this year due to successive years of 30%+ growth. BLR traffic growth reads 2015 25%, 2016 23%, 2017 30%, 2018 so far: 31%.

COK is stabilizing after floods, domestic passengers still growing, significant drop in intl traffic hurt overall numbers, since COK is the only major airport with more INTL than DOM passengers, though that's slightly reversed since the floods.

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3004
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Kashi » 26 Oct 2018 05:18

Apparently Air India is starting a non-stop flight between Bengaluru and London.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63366
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 26 Oct 2018 09:39

Bangalore mirror today

Weeks after Larsen and Toubro (L&T) bagged the Rs 3,035.9 crore contract for the construction of the second terminal (T2) at Kempegowda International Airport, a ground-breaking ceremony was held on Thursday to mark the start of construction.

If the project is not finished before March 31, 2021, L&T and BIAL will invite penalties from the Airport Economic Regulatory Authority of India.

Terminal 2 will be built in two phases. The first phase, covering 255,000 square metres, will cater to 25 million passengers per annum (MPPA), while the second phase of T2 – still in planning stage - will be built for an additional 20 MPPA. BIAL has said that T2 is being designed as an integrated terminal for both domestic and international passengers.


US architectural firm Skidmore, Owings & Merrill (SOM) has designed T2, while Turner International will be the PMC for this expansive project.

Second runway in ’19

There are 340 days left to KIA’s second runway being operational. The second runway can cater to all types of aircraft, including A380, in all weather conditions.

On October 23, KIA broke the record for most number of passengers handled by KIA on a single day, with 100,161 passengers using the facilities

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63366
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 26 Oct 2018 09:45

The hindu

To climb up from no. 7 position by 2024, says IATA

India will be the third largest aviation market globally a year sooner than was earlier predicted. It is now expected to be among the top three countries by 2024 from its current seventh position, according to global aviation body IATA.

In its latest 20-year forecast for the aviation industry, the International Air Transport Association (IATA) says that air passenger numbers worldwide could double to 8.2 billion in 2037.

Asian wave

The biggest contribution in this growth will come from the Asia-Pacific region, which will account for half the total number of new passengers over the next 20 years.

While China will climb up one spot to displace US as the world’s largest aviation market in the mid-2020s, India will take the third place by surpassing the U.K. around 2024, according to the IATA forecast.

By 2037, India is expected to add 414 million passengers to its existing 572 million passengers, the report added.

Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6934
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Prasad » 26 Oct 2018 11:13

The second runway can cater to all types of aircraft, including A380, in all weather conditions.

Interesting. Cat IIIb then. I think we have 5 airports that are similar right now.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63366
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 26 Oct 2018 11:45

Dum dum airport has two runways closely parallel. both seem to be in use.
maybe that can release one a.c to start takeoff run as another one is lining up for landing on the other runway?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Netaj ... 88.4463299

could be a bit dicey in bad weather if the landing plane homes in the takeoff runway and the plane taking off has to abort and hold its ground?

for true pure play shakinah parallel landings and takeoffs, the runways need to be much wider apart.
here a case from O'hare , of 3 planes landing in parallel.....true power start from 6:20



parallel takeoffs in houston, there is NO ability in any airport in india to permit this



running enough planes to give a car company a complex has taught khan these hard lessons in web scale and confined airspace management.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63366
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 26 Oct 2018 11:47

in BIAL though the 2 runways will have a 1km separation. hope to see a couple of 777 do the parallel takeoff, landing duet.

manish
BRFite
Posts: 817
Joined: 29 Jan 2009 16:13

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby manish » 27 Oct 2018 09:41

Suraj wrote:Air passenger traffic data for September:
AAI Sept 2018 traffic data
DEL +12% (on track for >70M passengers this year)
BOM +6.5% (constrained)
BLR +31% (will hit 32-35M this year)
HYD +24% (will cross 20M this year)
MAA +15% (potentially 25M this year)
CCU +15% (will cross 20M this year)
COK -0.3%

DEL will probably overtake Dallas, Paris, Amsterdam, Shanghai and Hong Kong this year, and if it does well, almost catch up with London Heathrow, moving from world #16 into the top 10.

Despite being heavily constrained, BOM should keep moving up the ranks, overtaking Barcelona and Madrid this year and hitting 50M pax.

BLR will exceed design capacity by >50% this year due to successive years of 30%+ growth. BLR traffic growth reads 2015 25%, 2016 23%, 2017 30%, 2018 so far: 31%.

COK is stabilizing after floods, domestic passengers still growing, significant drop in intl traffic hurt overall numbers, since COK is the only major airport with more INTL than DOM passengers, though that's slightly reversed since the floods.

Now there's clear daylight between BLR at #3 and the rest. Given the capacity constraints at BOM, BLR is likely to loom large in their rearview mirrors shortly.

Fight for #4 is now 3-way. HYD has grown out of its almost tier-2 status a decade ago into a real challenger. CCU is likely to be dethroned by end of this year and if the trends hold, MAA is likely to vacate #4 status next year.

HYD is most likely to be the next to breach 25 million mark IMHO.

DEL has a visible plan to go to 120m+, BLR to about 50m+ and HYD to 40m+. Nothing clear or concrete on the horizon for MAA and CCU both of which are staring at saturation within the next 3-5 years at current rate.

AAI better wake up and do something about MAA and CCU - it's really unfortunate what's happening with these former powerhouses.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63366
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 27 Oct 2018 20:19

places like ranchi and vijaywada are seeing >50% growth.

lucknow, varanasi, patna are finally seeing strong growth off earlier small bases.

TN has industries spread all over coimbatore, tirupur, salem, trichy being major kabila nodes. also pilgrimage places are all over in the chola heartlands, thiruvanmalai(more near blr), rameswaram(from madurai), kanyalumari(from trivandrum).... hence some amt of traffic does not flow into MAA. Telengana the only major place is HYD so it attracts most of business. HYD might indeed beat MAA in a few years unless they clean up the infra issues around Sriperumbudur,,,,,,the current 4 lane highway is totally not ok,,,,,with 1000s of employee buses in morning and evening and lanes blocked by Uturn vehicles......industrial parks there need dedicated underpass or flyovers to access. also Madras needs some expway to reach from blr side to the coast......driving miles through small roads is the norm now. not good.

in chankian strategic pindi type location none can beat bengaluru,,,,we are KA but more like NW TN also.......within 6 hrs drive one can reach madras, salem, mysore, coorg, tirupati, wayanad, vellore, puducherry, kurnool, anantapur ..... and a few more hrs for coimbatore, madurai, west coast KL , goa, hampi, hubbali-dharwad ,,,,,, plus 900m above sea level generates cool weather vs the baking plains below. :twisted: :D

no wonder its the new gelf and everyone from casual labour to the most educated in the land making a beeline here. people are fed on wild eyed tales by their previous generation .... one of our part time maids is from sikkim and one from UP .... one of them told my wife of some fabulous villa her friend worked in as a day maid , and got 25k monthly salary

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6965
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 27 Oct 2018 21:16

Singhaji,

The need for parallel runways in India are very important. I've seen it more than once at ATL, ORD, DFW, and DEN. Simultaneous departures and arrivals are important as rapid sequential operations increase the chance of wake turbulence. If you've ever experienced it, it is like losing rudder control and not enough time to recover before hitting the ground. A very unpleasant experience.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11922
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 27 Oct 2018 22:53

Yes the tier 2 and tier 3 airports are seeing very high growth rates, they're just small in absolute terms but within 5-10 years, many tier 2 airports will be serious world level players because of sheer numbers. BLR went from mid teens (13-20M pax) to a potential 35M max this year, in under half a decade.

Our airports have come a long way from the sad excuses they were 10-15 years ago. Having flown through DEL, BOM and BLR in the past year, they're all impressive. BOM T2 was particularly shakinaw; landing there from SIN one would be hard pressed to decide which is better. SHQ asked in amazement 'where's the old one ?' and I told her she was standing on top of it, T2 was built right upon it while it was still operating.

manish
BRFite
Posts: 817
Joined: 29 Jan 2009 16:13

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby manish » 27 Oct 2018 23:04

Singha wrote:places like ranchi and vijaywada are seeing >50% growth.

lucknow, varanasi, patna are finally seeing strong growth off earlier small bases.

TN has industries spread all over coimbatore, tirupur, salem, trichy being major kabila nodes. also pilgrimage places are all over in the chola heartlands, thiruvanmalai(more near blr), rameswaram(from madurai), kanyalumari(from trivandrum).... hence some amt of traffic does not flow into MAA. Telengana the only major place is HYD so it attracts most of business. HYD might indeed beat MAA in a few years unless they clean up the infra issues around Sriperumbudur,,,,,,the current 4 lane highway is totally not ok,,,,,with 1000s of employee buses in morning and evening and lanes blocked by Uturn vehicles......industrial parks there need dedicated underpass or flyovers to access. also Madras needs some expway to reach from blr side to the coast......driving miles through small roads is the norm now. not good.

in chankian strategic pindi type location none can beat bengaluru,,,,we are KA but more like NW TN also.......within 6 hrs drive one can reach madras, salem, mysore, coorg, tirupati, wayanad, vellore, puducherry, kurnool, anantapur ..... and a few more hrs for coimbatore, madurai, west coast KL , goa, hampi, hubbali-dharwad ,,,,,, plus 900m above sea level generates cool weather vs the baking plains below. :twisted: :D

no wonder its the new gelf and everyone from casual labour to the most educated in the land making a beeline here. people are fed on wild eyed tales by their previous generation .... one of our part time maids is from sikkim and one from UP .... one of them told my wife of some fabulous villa her friend worked in as a day maid , and got 25k monthly salary

My comparison was limited to only the airport - in terms of overall economy, MAA is a true multi-headed monster with a really broad based economy that has everything from mfg/heavy industries to technology R&D. HYD is a long way away from achieving that status. And like you correctly alluded to, the development in TN is truly deep rooted, something that I did notice in the few years that I spent working there. Even almost a decade ago, one could find 4/6 laned toll NHs in every nook and corner of TN, something most states still can't boast of.

But the airport? MAA at most has 18-20 months before HYD overtakes it in pax traffic. Cargo traffic is another thing altogether - here the industrial might of Chennai's economy has helped the airport sustain a massive 3x lead over both CCU and HYD, something that seems unlikely to be eroded within the next decade.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63366
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 27 Oct 2018 23:57

Mort Walker wrote:Singhaji,

The need for parallel runways in India are very important. I've seen it more than once at ATL, ORD, DFW, and DEN. Simultaneous departures and arrivals are important as rapid sequential operations increase the chance of wake turbulence. If you've ever experienced it, it is like losing rudder control and not enough time to recover before hitting the ground. A very unpleasant experience.


A300 out of JFK crashed in queens due to turbulence behind a JAL 747

the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which instead attributed the disaster to the first officer's overuse of rudder controls in response to wake turbulence, or jet wash, from a Japan Airlines Boeing 747-400 that took off minutes before it. According to the NTSB, the aggressive use of the rudder controls by the co-pilot caused the vertical stabilizer to snap off the plane

https://studentpilotnews.com/2018/06/11 ... urbulence/
I took this online quiz and scored all but 1.

while taking off , rotate before the takeoff point of the preceding heavy a/c and bank away, to avoid the vortices falling off below the heavy
when landing, stay above the glide of the preceding heavy and land at a point beyond its touchdown point

Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6934
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Prasad » 28 Oct 2018 00:00

TN also has other airports doing international, either to gelf or SE Asia. So not all state air traffic has to follow through madras. Besides it's a dump of an airport.
At dfw, on a clear evening, especially in summer you can see the peak evening landing traffic lined up for landing in distinct parallel lines.

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6965
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 28 Oct 2018 00:07

Suraj,

I don’t know if it is correct to say India’s airports were a sad excuse 10-15 years ago. In the late 1990s and by 2005 time frame, the ATC infrastructure was modernized to handle at least 75 operations an hour. The biggest problem is getting qualified and experienced AT controllers. It is even more pressing now given the higher number of operations. It is this ATC infrastructure which allows the higher number of operations; and that relies on qualified/trained technicians and engineers.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63366
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 28 Oct 2018 00:08



SOIA @ SFO is a pure play lungi shiver thing :((

I dont think even delhi runs any parallel approaches

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5573
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Supratik » 28 Oct 2018 01:16

Mort, my first experience of Del airport was a railway junction. First experience of Bom airport was the terminal smelling of urine everywhere. By that count the new airports are like going from India to Switzerland.

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6965
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 28 Oct 2018 02:00

Supratik wrote:Mort, my first experience of Del airport was a railway junction. First experience of Bom airport was the terminal smelling of urine everywhere. By that count the new airports are like going from India to Switzerland.


I remember the old Palam Airport of the 70s. It was simply an air conditioned railway station.

TBH, the terminal does not matter because any new terminal would be sufficient. Flight safety, security, and efficiency are much more pressing.

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6965
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 28 Oct 2018 02:02

Singhaji,

I believe DEL can handle simultaneous arrivals and departures.

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5573
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Supratik » 28 Oct 2018 02:27

It is not just the terminals. The entire area leading to the airport in Bom and Del looks developed including all airport infra. Only Bom has to get rid of the slums.

arshyam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2967
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby arshyam » 28 Oct 2018 08:21

Prasad wrote:TN also has other airports doing international, either to gelf or SE Asia. So not all state air traffic has to follow through madras. Besides it's a dump of an airport.

Yes, that's true. After MAA, CJB, TRZ and IXM are coming up as international airports on their own strengths. Of these, TRZ is the surprisingly big one - heavily connected to KUL (6 flights per day), SIN and CMB. It's also like one of those airports in KL, with greater int'l traffic than domestic.

CJB has been lobbying for more directs to DXB (currently they are making do with a non-stop to Sharjah onlee) and elsewhere. Being an industrial and export hub by itself and the entire industrial heartland of west TN as its hinterland, CJB can pull a lot more int'l traffic that is currently routed through BLR and MAA. BLR more than MAA due to distance. MAA by contrast has only the city powering its traffic, along with some pax from south AP/Nellore side.

So MAA losing out #3 or #4 is not that big a deal as long as other airports in the vicinity grow.

However, there is scope to reach Mumbai's traffic levels at MAA itself over the next decade, but that won't happen without a big shakinaw airport like BLR/HYD. The current airport is indeed bursting at its seams, and the new terminals (old ones have been demolished and being rebuilt by L&T) won't be sufficient beyond a decade. Unlike a decade back, everyone now agrees that a second airport is a necessity to handle this growth, but the SG for whatever reason is dragging its feet on identifying the location. There have been wild reports of Sriperumbudur (40 km west), Walajahbad (60 km south west), Madurantakam (70 km south!), etc. As usual, TN politicians are screwing things up by dithering again.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11922
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 28 Oct 2018 08:43

Mort: we can both be right . You’re talking ATC infrastructure , I’m talking passenger amenities .

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63366
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 28 Oct 2018 08:43

imo its better to expand the current airport itself by hook or crook than depend upon moonshots like 2nd airport with hordes of powerful politicos trying to swing it their way. with ADMK vs DMK on every issue its a tough call.

https://www.google.com/maps/@13.0025187 ... a=!3m1!1e3

it has 1 long and 1 short runway. similar to mumbai situation both cannot be used in same time, but MUM has proven 1000 movements are possible given enough taxiways and planning.

the north side labelled military zone and OTA parade ground could be bought out and a new terminal constructed there . underground multi level car park can be made if overground space is lacking. the "ranga garden" inside the V area (adyar river) could be used to site stuff like additional storage and parking areas

maybe be able to hold the fort until 50mil pax while the "environmental clearances" , PIL, SC pronouncements and political fights are sorted out and new airport can be done. not just an airport but some connecting expway from chennai ORR has to get done.

metro line also - even lucknow has constructed metro to its airport..parts of lucknow are well planned and look like noida from the air.

BLR to its credit got out of the hole it was in when pax was still 10 mil and not only that got the 25km long airport expway also done.
in its last days the HAL airport got so bad, I had to offload my wife's heavy luggage (for intl trip) 1km from the terminal in the driveway and man handle it to the porch else she would miss flight. baggage claim was 2 belts and 1 short belt along the wall on one side. #terrible :D
at night it felt like railway porters hauling luggage along that driveway to the terminal.

Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6934
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Prasad » 28 Oct 2018 23:21

The second runway extends over a creek. Got flooded during the nov floods in 15. It needs another long runway to handle heavies but no space to expand. Location wise it's a fantastic spot in the city frankly. Just sad that it can't really expand much.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63366
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 29 Oct 2018 07:49

it also has metro connection already ?

even 1 runway properly used can handle upto 1000 movements maybe more, which will hold the ramparts until a shakinaw Vrihadeswara type airport to teach a lesson to Peking gets done. complete with radar masts shaped like gopurams.

dredge that river and do other things to avoid floods.

Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6934
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Prasad » 29 Oct 2018 08:51

Metro runs right into the airport. There was always an electric train line running on the other side of the road too for eons.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 63366
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 29 Oct 2018 09:44

Lion air 737 max8 crashes into java sea near jakarta :(

All 188 souls feared dead . Debris field located

Garuda , air asia, batik air, and lion air are main players there and ofcourse sia cathay and malaysia

I fly there tomorrow. Got a shock reading it

ArjunPandit
BRFite
Posts: 1423
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 29 Oct 2018 14:42

^^the pilot was from delhi


Return to “Technology & Economic Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Indranil and 13 guests