Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

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nachiket
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 02 Jul 2019 23:07

Singha wrote:count so far is 85 cancelled and 54 diverted. will go into 100s by evening.

the other runway is a bit weak in mum?

The other runway is shorter at 9760 ft. They probably do not want to risk using it when there is so much rain and water accumulation.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SriKumar » 03 Jul 2019 05:26

This is a telling picture .
Image

How on earth does it get nose damage ! (no pun intended but it could not have possibly hit the earth).
THe engine nacelle is buckled, for obvious reasons. It hit ground. Of course, the nose landing gear is totally under mud.

THis link has all the pictures that tell the story.
https://www.eastmojo.com/news/2019/07/0 ... -in-mumbai

Cant understand why fan blades are damaged. Did it ingest mud while still spinning!! Weird. Damage to nose of plane is weird too. The mud would have been to wet to support any relief/rescue vehicles that could hit the nose of the craft.

Added later: Got it...I think it hit a post with landing lights or something like that, after egressing the runway.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vivek K » 03 Jul 2019 07:28

Probably hit the flashers of the approach light system. Again they need to consider an EMAS if pilots want to make this a regular feature. Causes less damage.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 03 Jul 2019 12:09

its likely the engine cowl and housing got deformed as the plane slid along the ground, and the bolts holding the engine properly inside may be damaged and engine need removal and overhaul. also mud may have sprayed inside past the big black turbofan.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 03 Jul 2019 12:13

Vivek K wrote:Probably hit the flashers of the approach light system. Again they need to consider an EMAS if pilots want to make this a regular feature. Causes less damage.


does barrier system exist for such heavy planes?

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 03 Jul 2019 12:16

looks like blr runway2 & cross apron will be operational long before T2. being higher cat rated will help in winter fog which develops around nandi hills sometimes. also the approach road of 10km is being widened in planned manner.

control over the land is the magic which makes it happen. mumbai was unlucky long ago when the slumlords and netas encroached upon her land. now navi mumbai is only escape...else the terminal is nice with all those shops and handicrafts on the walls and peacock themed motif.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 04 Jul 2019 02:54

Singha wrote:
Vivek K wrote:Probably hit the flashers of the approach light system. Again they need to consider an EMAS if pilots want to make this a regular feature. Causes less damage.


does barrier system exist for such heavy planes?

No barrier. Vivek is referring to the Engineered Materials Arrestor System Pic below. It is very effective.

Image

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 04 Jul 2019 09:36

nara e takbeer! this sounds cheap and doable in all short runways and monsoon impacted areas.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SriKumar » 04 Jul 2019 17:20

Bhell... bhell....the Mumbai airport (and many other airports) already have this solution implemented. It is called 'Mumbai ki mitti'. :D
It decelerated the plane nicely and bled off the energy before it hit the perimeter wall. The only issue was that it was too deep and the nose gear sank 3 feet instead of 1 foot. Maybe they lay a concrete bed and put 1 or 2 feet of soil, you have a environmentally friendly and cheap solution. (Only problem....it will work fine only during heavy rain....to make the mitti pliable).

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Gagan » 04 Jul 2019 18:00

Some factors are coming up
1. There was water on the runway. If more than 3mm, larger chances for planes to skid. Mumbai run way was under way MORE water than that.
2. The runway rubber marks that tyres make when planes touchdown, make the runway slippery. These are supposed to be removed during maintainence on a regular basis. 400%, that this was NOT being done at Mumbai - that airport doesn't have breathing space, landing some 600-800 flights a day !!!
3. This spicejet crash happened when the plane was exiting the runway still at good speed onto the taxiway, skidded out of the runway onto the gutter and soft mud next to the runway. Most likely bad weather conditions responsible.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby mmasand » 04 Jul 2019 21:00

Gagan wrote:Some factors are coming up
1. There was water on the runway. If more than 3mm, larger chances for planes to skid. Mumbai run way was under way MORE water than that.
2. The runway rubber marks that tyres make when planes touchdown, make the runway slippery. These are supposed to be removed during maintainence on a regular basis. 400%, that this was NOT being done at Mumbai - that airport doesn't have breathing space, landing some 600-800 flights a day !!!
3. This spicejet crash happened when the plane was exiting the runway still at good speed onto the taxiway, skidded out of the runway onto the gutter and soft mud next to the runway. Most likely bad weather conditions responsible.


Sorry boss, it wasn't 'exiting' the runway at good speed. BOM does not have a rapid exit taxiway. The only plausible speculation is that the flare was longer than permissible, the thrust had been put to idle however. What irks me is that the airport promoter expects airlines to have a removal kit (giant airbags), Air India is the only airline with an operational kit that was being used at IXE to remove the stranded AI Express. Its been 3 days and the main runway is still not operational leading to a delay index average of 45 mins, an several cancellations and fuel limitations.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby manish » 05 Jul 2019 07:11

mmasand wrote:
Gagan wrote:Some factors are coming up
1. There was water on the runway. If more than 3mm, larger chances for planes to skid. Mumbai run way was under way MORE water than that.
2. The runway rubber marks that tyres make when planes touchdown, make the runway slippery. These are supposed to be removed during maintainence on a regular basis. 400%, that this was NOT being done at Mumbai - that airport doesn't have breathing space, landing some 600-800 flights a day !!!
3. This spicejet crash happened when the plane was exiting the runway still at good speed onto the taxiway, skidded out of the runway onto the gutter and soft mud next to the runway. Most likely bad weather conditions responsible.


Sorry boss, it wasn't 'exiting' the runway at good speed. BOM does not have a rapid exit taxiway. The only plausible speculation is that the flare was longer than permissible, the thrust had been put to idle however. What irks me is that the airport promoter expects airlines to have a removal kit (giant airbags), Air India is the only airline with an operational kit that was being used at IXE to remove the stranded AI Express. Its been 3 days and the main runway is still not operational leading to a delay index average of 45 mins, an several cancellations and fuel limitations.

Err...BOM is the busiest single runway in the world with over 50 movements an hour and you wouldn't be able to get there without RETs. On its way off the runway, the SpiceJet plane shot past 3 of them.

Secondly, it is standard practice to have Disabled Aircraft Retrieval Kits with one designated carrier in a given region. In our case it happens to be AI, the national carrier. They are not doing any favours to anyone as claimed by certain 'experts' such as Mohan Ranganathan or some airliners.net or SSC fanbois. There's no free lunch anywhere and aviation certainly is no exception.

The DGCA says...
Whereas it is economically impossible to store all the equipment necessary for the removal of disabled aircraft, it has been generally agreed that the most feasible approach to the problem is for the airport authority to prepare a plan for each airport, in consultation with operators, for the removal of a disabled aircraft and to make arrangements with other agencies for the pooling of specialised equipment required. To overcome the problem, the major airlines have already made arrangements so as to make specialised equipment available on short notice on a world-wide basis and the kits have been strategically placed around the world.

The responsibility of removing a disabled aircraft lies with the operator concerned who will bear all costs incurred in the removal operation. The airport authority is, however, required to establish a pre-arranged plan in agreement with the operators and other assisting agencies for expeditious removal of disabled aircraft.


Aircraft belong to the airline and they wouldn't appreciate even the airport operator touching their planes. it's either the airline themselves or their designated ground handlers who work on the aircraft.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby manish » 05 Jul 2019 07:14

In other news, apparently action is being initiated against SpiceJet for lapses. Finally someone other than mango people also managed to see a pattern I guess in the string of mishaps and near misses.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vivek K » 05 Jul 2019 20:07

mmasand wrote:
Gagan wrote:Some factors are coming up
1. There was water on the runway. If more than 3mm, larger chances for planes to skid. Mumbai run way was under way MORE water than that.
2. The runway rubber marks that tyres make when planes touchdown, make the runway slippery. These are supposed to be removed during maintainence on a regular basis. 400%, that this was NOT being done at Mumbai - that airport doesn't have breathing space, landing some 600-800 flights a day !!!
3. This spicejet crash happened when the plane was exiting the runway still at good speed onto the taxiway, skidded out of the runway onto the gutter and soft mud next to the runway. Most likely bad weather conditions responsible.


Sorry boss, it wasn't 'exiting' the runway at good speed. BOM does not have a rapid exit taxiway. The only plausible speculation is that the flare was longer than permissible, the thrust had been put to idle however. What irks me is that the airport promoter expects airlines to have a removal kit (giant airbags), Air India is the only airline with an operational kit that was being used at IXE to remove the stranded AI Express. Its been 3 days and the main runway is still not operational leading to a delay index average of 45 mins, an several cancellations and fuel limitations.


So for high energy turnoffs there are specially designed High speed exit taxiways. Again they need to study the airport operations and develop a better exit taxiway system suited to the way the airlines are operating. Installing ASDE-X on the more important airports will help to provide exact tracks used to evolve the airport design that is more suited for local conditions.

Rubber removal is typically performed at night when there are either no or reduced operations. So there should be no excuse for BOM to hide behind busy operations not allowing rubber removal. And runway surface grooving with proper transverse pavement slopes helps in removing ponded water efficiently to permit operations in bad weather. It is hard to tell from Google Earth if the runways have grooves. But FAA stds require 1/4" deep grooves 1.5" apart. the grooves themselves are therefore 6 mm deep and if a efficient cross slope is provided, they help channel water away from runway to prevent hydroplaning. Also FAA requires continuous friction monitoring of airports. This in conjunction with proper geometric design, and installation of grooving plus friction monitoring helps makes airports safer in bad weather. In addition, taxiway edge lights (must already be there) with taxiway centerline in-pavement lights (may not be there yet) improve situational awareness.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 09 Jul 2019 16:48

finally, good sense prevails

it was after all a dhothi wearing, ruling party MP who facilitated the departure of mallaya



Deposit Rs 18,000 crore guarantee to go abroad: Delhi HC to Naresh Goyal



The Delhi High Court Tuesday quashed a plea of former Jet Airways chairman Naresh Goyal, who had challenged the travel ban imposed on him. Justice Suresh Kait said no interim relief can be granted to Goyal at this stage, adding that he may deposit Rs 18,000 crore guarantee if he wants to travel abroad on an immediate basis, PTI reported.

The court also sought the Centre’s response on his plea challenging a Look-Out-Circular (LOC) issued against him. The LOC issued against Goyal bars him from moving outside India.

Explained: Look-Out Circular, the notice that (apparently) grounded former Jet boss Naresh Goyal

In his plea, Goyal had said that the LOC has been issued without any basis and that the office memorandums are “bad in law”. Goyal said he came to know of the LOC on May 25 when he and his wife, Anita, were offloaded from a flight to Dubai with an onward connection to London.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby darshan » 12 Jul 2019 03:54

Delhi High Court orders CBI to produce the probe status report on Air Asia – Tata Group illegalities
https://www.pgurus.com/delhi-high-court ... egalities/

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby darshan » 18 Jul 2019 21:49

Amit Shah To Head Reconstituted Ministerial Panel On Air India Disinvestment; Resolution Likely Be Year-End https://swarajyamag.com/insta/amit-shah ... e-year-end


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