Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby vina » 31 Jul 2009 18:35

L'Airboos has order tout les sensors to be replaced in A330 and A340. Must be a big H&D blow to say replace atlest 2 of the 3 Thales Pitot tubes with Goodrich ones ! Euro Regulators Order Airbus Sensors Replaced

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 31 Jul 2009 19:29

Pvt airlines have asked for a bailout pkg.

they will not fly domestically on Aug18 as a measure of protest.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Yogi_G » 31 Jul 2009 21:39

times now says that int'l flights were nt stopped for fear of legal action as consumer rights are pretty strong there....

sigh...

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suppiah » 02 Aug 2009 15:08

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/blnus/09021310.htm

Stop the progress of the nation, restrict arrival of tourists and investors, jobs to several thousand hardworking folks in variety of sectors, until we parasites have plundered enough...and have enough aircraft to plunder more (and argue that AI is losing money because of buying aircraft) that is the convoluted logic of AI unions. Only now they are also shedding crocodile tears for private carriers in the hope that their ridiculous line would find favor.

It is a pity that Indian carriers have no planes to fly because of financial issues. GOI should think of ways to address this. But not let the whole economy wait for this to happen.

BTW flew Dragon from HKG to namma Bengaluru. Flight delayed by 1hr plus, announced @ last minute, gate changed thrice with all passengers made to parade from one to another at short notice. And the ground handling staff were so crude and rude...not a single word of apology or regret inconvenience...all this nonsense will stop if we have our own carriers flying..they treat us like s.it because they know we have no choice.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Sachin » 03 Aug 2009 13:23

Singha wrote:Pvt airlines have asked for a bailout pkg.

This was subsequently cancelled. Heared that GoI put up a very tough stand.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 04 Aug 2009 22:09

Delhi airport modernization: T3 update from GMR
According to officials of Delhi International Airport Limited (DIAL), the company modernizing the Delhi airport, the construction of Terminal 3 (T3) will be achieved in a record time of 38 months.

“T5 at Heathrow and the new terminal at Beijing airport took 60 months each to build while constructing Terminal 3 at Changi airport in Singapore took 76 months,” said Mr I. P. Rao, DIAL’s Chief Executive Officer, Airport Development.

One reason for this efficiency is the six months of planning that DIAL undertook before work started in 2006.

The planning included working out specifications of what DIAL was looking for in the contracts that it signed with different companies.

So L&T, the Engineering, Procurement and Construction contractor, knew before-hand that it would have to import such machinery as Automated Sensor Pavers and 18-tonnes vibrator rollers to be used in the project.

Facilities

Right now, 70-80 per cent of the work at this new integrated domestic and international passenger terminal is over. Once complete, T3 will have glass facades that stretch over 170,000 square metres (42 acres), flooring of granite, stone and other materials will cover 260,000 square metres (65 acres) and the carpeting area will cover 170,000 square metres (42 acres).

“T3 will have 75 aerobridges for passenger embarkation and disembarkation and a five-level in-line baggage handling system (the first airport terminal in India to have a fully automated baggage handling system capable of handling over 10,000 bags an hour).

The check-in area will have 168 counters while the airport will also offer remote check-in facilities at select Delhi metro stations on the airport express-line,” Mr Rao said, during a walk through the project site.

Even as work on the Rs 9,000-crore project is going on, trial runs have begun and the newly set up baggage conveyor belt has been tested with a few pieces of luggage. Sixty-eight elevators, 31 escalators and 76 travelators are being put in place.

Also in the working stage is a coffee table book on the project. This will contain interesting details, right from the time DIAL officials were told that in certain areas on which they were planning to build the world-class airport there was nothing but a jungle where wild animals wandered free, to senior Government officials joking that DIAL should consider building a landing area for sea-planes instead of an airport as one end of the property had so much underground water!

But the project is underway and Delhi is going to have a new airport next year. So what will it mean for an average passenger travelling through the new terminal?

For starters, get ready for a six-lane road trip to the airport and back. If you do not want to drive, there will be the option of taking the metro train, which will stop close to the airport, allowing you to walk in.

DIAL officials claim that the check-in counters can be used both by domestic and international flyers. It is only after the check-in that the passengers will be segregated and guided to international and domestic departure areas.

Further, T3 is being planned as a modular building, which will have two huge piers on each side, through which passengers can board or disembark from an aircraft through aerobridges.

There will also be 4,000 CCTV cameras put up across the airport to support centralized monitoring and some of the elevators will have a scenic view of the outdoors.

Singha will be pleased :) There are already a few pics of the massive terminal on SSC, showing the more than mile long stretch of glass-fronted terminal building coming up.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Dileep » 05 Aug 2009 08:27

“T5 at Heathrow and the new terminal at Beijing airport took 60 months each to build while constructing Terminal 3 at Changi airport in Singapore took 76 months,” said Mr I. P. Rao, DIAL’s Chief Executive Officer, Airport Development.

How does they compare in area, number of gates and pax capacity?

IGI T3

Terminal Floor Area : 480,000m²
Number of Levels: 5
New Aerobridge Gates :74

Changi T3

Terminal Floor Area :430,000m³
Number of Levels : 7
New Aerobridge Gates :28 (8 are A380-compatible)

Heathrow T5A

Terminal Floor Area: 300,000 sqm
Number of Levels: 4
New Aerobridge Gates :47

Beijing T3

Terminal Floor Area: 986,000m² (incl 2 levels car park)
Number of Levels : 7
New Aerobridge Gates :66

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 05 Aug 2009 10:52

Dileep: where did you get those stats from ? The following official video presentation from GMR indicates an area in excess of 500,000sqm for IGI T3, in addition to several other stats:

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Sumeet » 06 Aug 2009 23:25

according to video above:

Area: 502,000 sq m
Levels: 9

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby rachel » 07 Aug 2009 00:28

Dileep wrote:
“T5 at Heathrow and the new terminal at Beijing airport took 60 months each to build while constructing Terminal 3 at Changi airport in Singapore took 76 months,” said Mr I. P. Rao, DIAL’s Chief Executive Officer, Airport Development.

How does they compare in area, number of gates and pax capacity?

IGI T3

Terminal Floor Area : 480,000m²
Number of Levels: 5
New Aerobridge Gates :74

Changi T3

Terminal Floor Area :430,000m³
Number of Levels : 7
New Aerobridge Gates :28 (8 are A380-compatible)

Heathrow T5A

Terminal Floor Area: 300,000 sqm
Number of Levels: 4
New Aerobridge Gates :47

Beijing T3

Terminal Floor Area: 986,000m² (incl 2 levels car park)
Number of Levels : 7
New Aerobridge Gates :66


How do they manage to get a larger number of gates in Delhi than Beijing, despite having a smaller total area?

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Virupaksha » 07 Aug 2009 00:42

rachel wrote:
How do they manage to get a larger number of gates in Delhi than Beijing, despite having a smaller total area?

is it an airport or an architectural wonder that you are talking about :wink:

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Dileep » 07 Aug 2009 07:44

All information from http://www.airport-technology.com/projects

The number of levels and floor area are always of contention. Like in Beijing, the two underground car parking levels are added to the area, which doesn't make sense. When you make a comparison, I think the building size should be the primary criteria.

Coming to aerobridges, of course you can cram more into a small building. You can have football field like gate areas like in HKG, to subway tunnel line halls like LAGuardia T3

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 07 Aug 2009 08:07

one can always trust the chinese to add in all the areas they can....they MUST be >> BKK, KL, changi, HK just to prove something.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Viv Sreenivasan » 07 Aug 2009 08:26

HK is now part of China, they dont need to prove a point to them.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 07 Aug 2009 08:50

HK maybe part of prc but its beijing and shanghai who have the political clout and want to be the next-gen
financial and trade centers eclipsing HK.

HK is not a designated 'showpiece city' to show the achievements of the Han.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby rachel » 07 Aug 2009 09:08

You know, it's gonna be mighty embarassing for other cities of India whose airports are gonna be like rat shacks compared to Delhi (even the new ones at Blr and Hyd .. they're puny).

In China besides BJG airport, they have a few more impressive ones as well. Shanghai, HK, Guangzhou?

Mumbai needs a showcase airport in the worst way.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 07 Aug 2009 19:27

Singha wrote:HK maybe part of prc but its beijing and shanghai who have the political clout and want to be the next-gen
financial and trade centers eclipsing HK.

HK is not a designated 'showpiece city' to show the achievements of the Han.


The advancement of HK has always been a great hummiliation to the communist government in Beijing. Also to a certain extent all Han chinease are not comfortable with the fact that the Brits made HK prosper like no other place in China. The communists are very very concerned with apperance of things. They build to impress.

Now that HK is in Chinas hand, they are very keen to show that they can make HK prosper like the British did. They have a very grand plan of combining the entire Guangdong provice with HK and Macau.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vipul » 07 Aug 2009 21:11

The airport at Sahar in Bombay would look decent by the time GVK finishes upgrading it in 2012.GVK is doing a good job given the constraints.All hopes are now on the proposed second airport in New Bombay.The silver lining to its delayed clearance is that the first phase will now include 2 runways being built instead of one.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby putnanja » 08 Aug 2009 01:24

Kingfisher Air changed accounting treatment to show lower loss: Auditors

Kingfisher Airlines’ losses for 2008-09 would have been higher but for the changes in accounting treatment by the airline with respect to aircraft lease payments, according to its auditors.

In a filing with the Bombay Stock Exchange last week, the airline reported a loss after tax of Rs 1,608.83 crore for the year ending March 31, 2009.

The auditors have noted that the company has changed the accounting treatment for maintenance rent that it is liable to pay its lessors.
...
...


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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby AmitNangia » 18 Aug 2009 09:27

MSNBC has this list of top 10 airlines "To fly in style (for less)"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32299523/ns ... nesForLess

Good to see Kingfisher make it to this list! Let's hope they stay afloat and tide over the current crisis!

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suppiah » 24 Aug 2009 14:14

http://business.rediff.com/slide-show/2 ... -patel.htm

The extent of plunder is mind boggling...1,600 parasites plundering more than 25 lakhs each p.a.! Fit case for confiscating the PF balances of the looters and sack them.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby kmkraoind » 25 Aug 2009 14:33

AI employees to go on three-day hunger-strike

"For the past two months, we have been working for betterment of the airlines, but the management is adamant on the 50 per cent cut in our salaries.


Blatant lie by unions, where as GOI is only proposing 50% reduction in variable pay (which is some times x2-4 of salary and runs into lakhs).

Instead of coming detailed list of demands, why cannot the unions make out publicly what "working for betterment of the airlines" they are doing. Definitely AI employees are in top slot of leech-chain pyramid. Better GOI privatize or sell it to its previous owners, TATA.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby krishnan » 25 Aug 2009 14:37

kmkraoind wrote:AI employees to go on three-day hunger-strike

"For the past two months, we have been working for betterment of the airlines, but the management is adamant on the 50 per cent cut in our salaries.


Blatant lie by unions, where as GOI is only proposing 50% reduction in variable pay (which is some times x2-4 of salary and runs into lakhs).

Instead of coming detailed list of demands, why cannot the unions make out publicly what "working for betterment of the airlines" they are doing. Definitely AI employees are in top slot of leech-chain pyramid. Better GOI privatize or sell it to its previous owners, TATA.


TATA will say tata to them :mrgreen: or TATA will say tata to half the employees if they decide to buy them

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby ravig » 25 Aug 2009 20:57

Its interesting people snap at the first oppurtunity to blame AAI/AI but no discussion on the leaking roof built by GMR at Delhi Airport.

I am all for privatisation but one has to consider both sides of argument.
AFAIK none of the AAI airports had a roof 'blown' over by moderate rains...so much for preparation for CW 2010...

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby krishnan » 26 Aug 2009 11:04


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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Nihat » 26 Aug 2009 12:21

AIRLINES SHY AWAY FROM MYSORE AIRPORT

Bangalore, Aug. 25 (OSR)- The Mysore Airport at Mandakalli may be ready by Sept. 15, but it is not sure whether aircrafts land or take off from there as airlines are not much enthusiastic about operating from the airport.

The Airports Authority of India (AAI) will ask the Director General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) to send a team to inspect the site at Mandakalli. Tentatively, the DGCA may visit Mysore in the first week of September.

It may be recalled here that Chief Minister B. S. Yeddyurappa had set a deadline of Sept. 15 to complete Phase I and operationalise the airport during Dasara festivities. But airlines are still not sure of Mysore’s potential. No airline has charted out any flightpath to Mysore.

The State Government is approaching various airlines and persuading them to start flight operations to Mysore on the opening day. Sources said that the government wants airlines to operate a Bangalore-Mysore flight. However, the airlines say that Bangalore-Mysore service is not feasible.

"It is pointless to have a flight from Mysore to Bangalore as the time of travel by air (including the landing and take-off time) will be less than 30 minutes," said a senior official of an airline. It will also take at least one hour to get to the Bangalore airport from the city and passengers would have to arrive one hour before the departure.

Capt. G.R. Gopinath, the pioneer of low-cost aviation in India, however, says a Mysore-Bangalore flight will get enough traffic for an airline to break even.

"The current traffic to Nanjangud, Madikeri and Ooty use the Coimbatore airport, which can be now serviced by the Mysore airport. Mysore also gets a lot of traffic from Maharashtra and Gujarat."

http://www1.timesofindia.indiatimes....ow/4930834.cms


rather bad news , this.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby David Saenz » 01 Sep 2009 01:25

Last edited by Gerard on 01 Sep 2009 02:00, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: username changed to conform with forum guidelines

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Nihat » 01 Sep 2009 02:35

I wonder how much of these losses can be attributed to the over zealous and debt funded takeover of Deccan and Sahara airlines. Hopefully Jet and Kingfisher have learned something.

Instead of demanding cuts in ATF taxes perhaps they can utilize their fleet better and keep non metro ops. in the realm of their low cost arm and operate the full service carriers on profitable routes.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Sridhar » 01 Sep 2009 18:00

The ratio of gates to terminal space depends on a number of factors. Whether
a. the airport is primarily for international flights (greater proportion of larger aircraft + more lingering time by passengers = more space),
b. the proportion of transiting passengers vs. those for whom it is a terminal point (more transiting passengers = more space)
c. the proportion of space dedicated to non-essential shopping areas and other non-core activities
and of course
e. the design of the terminal (depending on the design, more or less space would need to be dedicated to activities like passenger movement)

Hence a comparison between airports merely on ratio of terminal space to gates is hard without accounting for these factors.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 02 Sep 2009 01:41

Nihat wrote:I wonder how much of these losses can be attributed to the over zealous and debt funded takeover of Deccan and Sahara airlines. Hopefully Jet and Kingfisher have learned something.

Instead of demanding cuts in ATF taxes perhaps they can utilize their fleet better and keep non metro ops. in the realm of their low cost arm and operate the full service carriers on profitable routes.



KFA has refitted about 75% of it's fleet for low cost operations after spending a considerable amount for the modifications.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 02 Sep 2009 01:50

It is rumored that to counter any unpleasant situation arising due to the Jet pilot's union called strike, Kingfisher has readied a number of its aircraft to help out if needed, on the request of the Jet management.

More than a hundred of Jet's senior pilots are not in favor of the strike call and will not join the action if push comes to shove.

The number of fence sitters among the pilots in Jet seem to be rising by the day. Not everyone is willing to tempt fate in these recessionary days!

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Prasad » 02 Sep 2009 08:00

Madras airport seems to be functioning on the prayers of the ATC, pilots and the passengers apparently -

Pilots, ATC fume as radio at city airport cracks up

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 02 Sep 2009 14:04

tsriram wrote:Madras airport seems to be functioning on the prayers of the ATC, pilots and the passengers apparently -

There have been frequent failures of radars at the Chennai airport and it has been so for many years now and AAI has done nothing so far.

Secondary Radar fails at Chennai Airport yesterday
Airport sources said that in the past eight months this was the fourth time that the radar failed at the airport because of cable cuts

We know work is going on in the airport for extension of secondary runway etc, but radar failing because of cable-cuts so many times is unacceptable.
Here is some more info
Meanwhile, two radars, the primary and the secondary one, would be replaced with new ones. Already, the AAI has started the process for acquiring the new radars. {We have been hearing this for at least two years now} Apart from this, an additional route radar would also be installed at the Chennai airport.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 02 Sep 2009 14:18

ATC automation project for Chennai awarded
The Airports Authority of India (AAI) has awarded the automation work of air traffic control to a U.S.-based company Raytheon. . . . The automation system included automatic dependent surveillance with digital link capability to exchange communication between the tower and pilot over oceanic region. This is the first of its kind to be commissioned in South Asia, the source said.

The new system would help in reducing delay in the arrival and departure of aircraft. Similarly, there are different safety alert features such as Short Term Conflict Alert, Medium Term Conflict Detection and Enhanced Flight Plan Capability to handle more aircraft. The system would also have information in respect of surveillance, navigation, air traffic flow management, meteorological information on a real-time basis, the source said.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby bart » 02 Sep 2009 20:46

Chennai airport should make some extra cash by setting up a "Back to the 1970s" themed experience. They don't have to change a thing. :mrgreen:

You don't realize it so much during departures but upon returning back from Changi or Suvarnabhumi or pretty much any airport, one feels the airport literally reeks of socialism.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 03 Sep 2009 00:50

Sridhar wrote:The ratio of gates to terminal space depends on a number of factors. Whether
a. the airport is primarily for international flights (greater proportion of larger aircraft + more lingering time by passengers = more space),
b. the proportion of transiting passengers vs. those for whom it is a terminal point (more transiting passengers = more space)
c. the proportion of space dedicated to non-essential shopping areas and other non-core activities
and of course
e. the design of the terminal (depending on the design, more or less space would need to be dedicated to activities like passenger movement)

Hence a comparison between airports merely on ratio of terminal space to gates is hard without accounting for these factors.



More here for the interested.

Airport Engineering by Norman J. Ashford, Paul H. Wright
Publisher: Wiley-Interscience 1992-02 | 536 Pages | ISBN: 0471527556

Kazda “Airport Design and Operation"
Elsevier Science | 2007-07-16 | ISBN: 0080451047

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Manmeet » 03 Sep 2009 15:49

Hi there,

Can some one based in India and has good knowledge of what is happening in 'inner corridors' of CA industry tell me what is the scope for 'new CPL holders', who have just finished their flying training?
Any news on recruiting Flight crew by airlines?
What scope do you see for them in 3-4 years down the track?
Some serious info will be much appreciated...

Thx

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby krishnan » 08 Sep 2009 16:47

http://sify.com/finance/fullstory.php?a ... soning_039

If the president of the newly formed Jet Airways pilots' union is to be believed, the reason for some 400 of its members falling "sick" Tuesday, perhaps, was food poisoning.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby manish » 08 Sep 2009 16:59

X-Posting from the PRC Economy thread:
kmkraoind wrote:China unveils jet at Asia's biggest air show
China Says First Jet to Cost Less Than Boeing, Airbus

Really I cannot resist without appreciating Chinese. Vy hook or crook they are developing at faster pace at every sphere of life. While we still struggle to build a 14-seater aircraft, Chinese are not far away challenging behemoths like Boeing and Airbus. It really saddens me that though Chinese growth and GDP are equal to India's during early 1950s, they are now surpassed us with a huge difference.

I quite like the fact that new competition is finally emerging in the bread-n-butter market for the Big Two - single aisle mainline narrowbodies. A320 and B737 families may have to put up with some serious competition if the likes of the above mentioned Comac C919, Bombardier CSeries and the Embraer 195 mount a serious enough challenge.

The Bombardier actually has 30 confirmed orders from Lufthansa, and looks quite good with the current specs topping out at 145 seats - just at the lower end of the A320/B737 family. Although 30 is nothing compared to the outstanding orderbook of the current players, surely it is a beginning. The Comac jet according to the above link has 168-190 seats, and will most likely take a good chunk of the Chinese market under government 'guidance'. So, together with CSeries (which has a significant chunk of mfg done in China IIRC!) the whole spectrum of the market for such planes will be covered, for the first time since MD folded into Boeing and the Russians were reduced to bit players.

And add to this the fact that both Boeing and Airbus seem to be stuck with previous gen engines unlike the CSeries which will debut with the new P&W GTF engines which are supposed to make the plane 15-20% cheaper to operate compared to the competition.

And after reading enqyoob's posts on the Civil Air Safety dhaga, any competition surely has to be welcomed! :)


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