Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 05 May 2013 20:45

Chinese Civil Aviation Program

Asia, Future of Aviation China’s booming economy drives aviation development

Kamov responsible for Z-10 design

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 07 May 2013 07:26

Air India cuts domestic free baggage allowance from 20kg to 15kg

NEW DELHI: The free check-in baggage for domestic flyers is all set to be reduced from 20 kg to 15 kg and a host of other charges are on the way. Air India has decided to reduce the free baggage limit for economy passengers to 15 kg and will charge anywhere between Rs 200 to Rs 250 per kg for excess weight. While AI is planning to implement this from next week itself to cash in on the holiday travel (summer break in north India begins this weekend), all other airlines are going to follow suit soon.

Meanwhile for registered frequent domestic flyers, AI will offer 10 kg more than the normal economy allowance. Which means earlier registered frequent flyers on economy class could check in 30 kg on domestic flights and now they will be allowed 25 kg. Business class domestic passengers are allowed 30 kg check-in baggage.

AI's higher charges are a fallout of aviation minister Ajit Singh recently allowing airlines to 'unbundle' their services and charge separately for things like pre-selection of seats, check-in baggage and sports and musical instruments. This move was seen as a prelude to Air Asia's entry into India as the low cost carriers charges extra for almost everything.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 13 May 2013 20:44

Urupadave mateengada!

False ceiling panels collapse at Chennai domestic terminal

Twenty panels – each measuring 4x4 feet – of the false ceiling in the departure area of the Chennai airport’s new domestic terminal came crashing down early on Monday.

No one was reported injured in the incident as there were no passengers or any other airport employee found in the area at the time.

H.S. Suresh, Chennai Airport Director, said 60 square metres of the panels’ false ceiling near the security hold area, known as the ‘bus lounge’ located at the ground floor of the new terminal, fell around 2 a.m.. As the panels collapsed near the boarding gates H1 and H2, the Airports Authority of India (AAI) closed the area. These have been cordoned off and gates H3 and H4 have been put to use, he said.

A team of officials examined the spot and said it would be fixed before this evening. “We are yet to ascertain the reasons for the fall [sic]. An investigation has been ordered into it and a case has been registered with the Trisulam police in this regard,” Mr. Suresh added.

The false ceiling is made partly of gypsum board and partly of light-weight glasswool re-inforced ceiling tiles. These tiles are mainly used to reduce noise levels inside the terminal buildings, Mr. Suresh said.

A senior AAI official said that the crashing of the false ceiling could have been due to the opening of a door in the bus lounge. The officer said that there was heavy wind pressure last night. Someone unknowingly could have opened the door leading to the collapse of the false ceilings. The wind may have entered a portion of the ceiling and filled the entire area with no way to escape. No proper safety audit has been done before commissioning the terminal, the officer said.

New terminal not covered under insurance

Another officer pointed out that the recently commissioned new domestic terminal has not been covered by insurance. Officials from the AAI headquarters need to provide insurance cover, depending upon the value of the building. Under the present circumstances, as the new building is not provided insurance coverage, a major mishap would lead to technical hassles while claiming compensations.

Sums up the sheer incompetence and corruption in government works! Rs 2300 crores budget for this new terminal and its no better than a bloody shulab shouchalai

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 13 May 2013 23:46

I flew on the Lufthansa A380 recently. Loved the three onboard cameras it has. One is pointed straight down at the ground, one mounted on the tail and looks ahead so you can see the entire fuselage and wings and third one somewhere on the nose pointed in front for an unrestricted view of whatever is in front of the aircraft. The cameras are on throughout the flight and you can get a live feed from any of them on the usual seat-back mounted entertainment system. And they also show a 3D rendering of the aircraft in flight along with a good recreation of the terrain around it if you want.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 13 May 2013 23:52

manish wrote: The expectations are that the monster would have an even more powerful version of the massive GE-90 engines dubbed GE-9X and is expected to enter service by 2019.

Here it comes...Board clears Boeing to offer 777X for sale
Boeing has started offering the 777X to airlines and leasing companies, the last step before a formal launch event.

Boeing still plans to introduce the 777X into service by the end of the decade. General Electric, which supplies the GE9X engine, is aiming for certification of the propulsion system in mid-2018, which usually pre-dates a scheduled entry into service of the completed aircraft by at least a year.

The GE-90-115B which powers the 777-300 is already monstrous in size and produces an eye-popping 514kN of thrust. I shudder to think what the specs on the new one are going to be like.

You can appreciate how big the engine really is when you see it mounted on a 747

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 May 2013 07:22

the big boys sure play at their own level...a flying 747 testbed, no doubt packed with test equipment..perhaps just one of many.

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 14 May 2013 12:03

The pylons of GE-90 are more straight than that of the other engine. Still its bottom is maybe a little above 1meter from the ground. If its successor's diameter increases further, doubt whether even the B747 can hold it. Maybe then American's might need to approach Gromov flight center to loan one of their IL-76 considering its high mounted wing which can accomodate bigger engines. or maybe GTRE can get one IL-76 and loan it to khan and get some experience testing civilian engines.

manish · Post by **manish** » 14 May 2013 13:51

I have seen claims that the GE-90-115B is so powerful that it can easily power a 747 at cruise altitude single-handedly! I am no expert so please don't pummel if that is not supposed to be impressive.

BTW, the first A350 prototype has just been rolled out after a complete paint job, revealing it to be a much better looker than the ugly duckling unpainted ones seen earlier.

The newly painted one:

The earlier un-painted one:
http://www.flightglobal.com/Assets/GetA ... emID=49711

BTW, to the naked eye, it looks like the 'face' of all the next-gen planes seemingly follow similar design trends - look at the arrangement around the nose/cockpit area and I somehow find strong similarities between the B787, A350 (the painted one) and the CSeries.

manish · Post by **manish** » 14 May 2013 14:21

nachiket wrote: The GE-90-115B which powers the 777-300 is already monstrous in size and produces an eye-popping 514kN of thrust. I shudder to think what the specs on the new one are going to be like.

You can appreciate how big the engine really is when you see it mounted on a 747

Saar, I think -9X is going to be of lower thrust than the 115B, at least initially.

The info made public so far only states '100,000 pounds thrust class'.

The RR XWB-97s for the A350-1000 are also going to be in the same ballpark with 97,000 pounds.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 15 May 2013 02:03

manish wrote:
nachiket wrote: The GE-90-115B which powers the 777-300 is already monstrous in size and produces an eye-popping 514kN of thrust. I shudder to think what the specs on the new one are going to be like.

You can appreciate how big the engine really is when you see it mounted on a 747
Saar, I think -9X is going to be of lower thrust than the 115B, at least initially.

The info made public so far only states '100,000 pounds thrust class'.

The RR XWB-97s for the A350-1000 are also going to be in the same ballpark with 97,000 pounds.

If the 777X is larger and heavier, then how can a lower thrust engine be enough to power it?

Conversely, if a lower thrust variant is enough for a larger 777X then why does the 777-300 need that 514kN monster. The diameter of the 115B is apparently nearly the same as the diameter of legacy 737 Classic's fuselage.

manish · Post by **manish** » 15 May 2013 08:26

nachiket wrote: If the 777X is larger and heavier, then how can a lower thrust engine be enough to power it?
Conversely, if a lower thrust variant is enough for a larger 777X then why does the 777-300 need that 514kN monster. The diameter of the 115B is apparently nearly the same as the diameter of legacy 737 Classic's fuselage.

I don't know saar, as I said I am only talking of what has been publicly stated by the engine and airframe manufacturers. I am no expert by any stretch of imagination

BTW, if the fact that there is going to be a lower thrust engine perplexes you, consider this - the 777-9X (the biggest of 'em all triples) is supposedly going to have a lower MTOW as well - at 344t vs 351t for the -300ER, despite being longer, wider and carrying more passengers/payloads

. As a layperson, I would guess that the reduction in MTOW is probably a direct result of lower fuel carrying requirements to power the significantly more fuel efficient GE-9X engines. So in this case I would guess the MTOW reduction would be a 'good' reduction. Seen in another way, the -115B's extra thrust would have probably been used up to carry the fuel to feed its own self.

Here's a snapshot from a GE presentation (check out the technology highlights, perhaps some of the gurus on the forums can comment on those):

Some numbers thrown up by Flightglobal on the 777-9X:

The 407-passenger, 76.48m (250ft 11in) long 777-9X, a four-frame stretch of the 777-300ER, would likely lead the new family. It would be powered by two General Electric GE9X engines, each providing 99,500lb of thrust, and have a maximum take-off weight (MTOW) of 344t (759,000lb).

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 15 May 2013 09:48

Plus the wings, wingbox etc on the 777x will be composite, which will be lighter than the current aluminium ones. There are other aerodynamic improvements planned for 777x too I believe.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 May 2013 11:02

it amazes me compared to the house sized diameter of the fans, these heavies "combustor section" continues to be not much bigger if at all to the AL31/F119 types which are one-third the thrust at best.

how is this possible? can the same size chamber produce more thrust if more air is rammed in and more fuel burned?

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 16 May 2013 07:56

Meet former model Mittu Chandilya who will pilot AirAsia in India

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 17 May 2013 10:38

Singha wrote:it amazes me compared to the house sized diameter of the fans, these heavies "combustor section" continues to be not much bigger if at all to the AL31/F119 types which are one-third the thrust at best.

how is this possible? can the same size chamber produce more thrust if more air is rammed in and more fuel burned?

In a combustor, air scarcity is never a limiting factor to burn fuel. In fact, a large portion of core airflow bypasses the combustor and is used as cooling air which dilutes the super hot gases inside the combustor through holes in combustor liner before it hits the hottest section i.e. first stage turbine stator/nozzle. The bottleneck is how much fuel you can burn before you melt/degrade the turbines. The wasp waist type structure also helps in compressing the air as it gradually moves to combustor. Combustor needs to be only as big as required to move the fan at it's optimum speed to produce the requisite thrust levels. You would never want to overspin the fan. I visualize the modern high bypass turbofan engines of commercial airliners as ducted turboprop engines where the main objective of the core is to provide torque to rotate the fan to produce the thrust unlike the older engines where the core used to provide the main thrust in the form of high velocity low mass air.

Cheers....

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 May 2013 11:10

Gee i never thought of it that way of a ducted uber turboprop....but makes sense

The material science needed for these puppies seem to be a couple decades ahead of our level

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 May 2013 09:55

Good write up on An-158 in Cuba

Welcoming An-158 in Cuba

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 May 2013 09:11

Prasad wrote:Urupadave mateengada!

False ceiling panels collapse at Chennai domestic terminal
Sums up the sheer incompetence and corruption in government works! Rs 2300 crores budget for this new terminal and its no better than a bloody shulab shouchalai

To add to what Prasad has said above, the new International terminal has been ordered to be opened by June even though a lot of work remains undone. The in-line baggage scanning system, which was never ordered for this airport, is now being diverted from Srinagar. What is this pathetic planning ? An international airport of the size of Chennai getting such an important piece of equipment from another airport almost as a back thought ?

My Swedish friend, a racist, used to describe India as a "nigger-rigger's paradise". Sorry for repeating what he said. He just made one trip to India nd upon his return, told me his conclusion. Though the racism in his remark is unacceptable, the message is so true for India. Shame on us for allowing AAI to modernize the airport in Chennai.

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 21 May 2013 09:25

SSridhar,
I believe the term's "n$$$a rig". It's basically an american slang for jugaad

. It is racist if used openly, but kinda ok amongst friends. n$$$a rig

manish · Post by **manish** » 21 May 2013 09:49

SSridhar wrote: To add to what Prasad has said above, the new International terminal has been ordered to be opened by June even though a lot of work remains undone. The in-line baggage scanning system, which was never ordered for this airport, is now being diverted from Srinagar. What is this pathetic planning ? An international airport of the size of Chennai getting such an important piece of equipment from another airport almost as a back thought.

My Swedish friend, a racist, used to describe India as a "nigger-rigger's paradise". Sorry for repeating what he said. Though the racism in his remark is unacceptable, the message is so true for India. Shame on us for allowing AAI to modernize the airport in Chennai.

What a joke!

If only the powers that be hadn't come in the way of privatising the whole set-up under PPP a la DEL/BOM/HYD/BLR, we wouldn't have to suffer through this.

Now there is talk of handing over the O&M of the airport to a pvt co belatedly. After the funds were (mis)invested by the GoI entities,they want to hand over the facility on a platter to pvt cos. This IMHO is less preferable than the PPP model, from multiple perspectives including RoI for the public funds.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 21 May 2013 13:22

I used the new domestic terminal couple times this last month and all in all, AAI squandered money and opportunity to build a decent terminal. I did not believe the internet posts about the bad upkeep of the airport and the so called open garden, but you have to see it to believe it. I'm sure the international terminal will follow the same standards

DEL T3 is eons better than MAA, may be AAI and Civil aviation ministry is penalizing TN for not electing a national party in the state.

manish · Post by **manish** » 21 May 2013 14:53

Javee wrote:I used the new domestic terminal couple times this last month and all in all, AAI squandered money and opportunity to build a decent terminal. I did not believe the internet posts about the bad upkeep of the airport and the so called open garden, but you have to see it to believe it. I'm sure the international terminal will follow the same standards DEL T3 is eons better than MAA, may be AAI and Civil aviation ministry is penalizing TN for not electing a national party in the state.

Blame it on the UPA coalition politics and DMK.

IIRC DMK was in power both at the state and Central govt when the decision came down. As Singha once said on this very forum that MAA and CCU were the sacrificial lambs offered to the AAI monster to get it to let go of DEL/BOM/BLR/HYD

Incidentally, both MAA and CCU new terminals (and also the many new terminals elsewhere) are said to have been funded largely out of the gigantic revenue shares received from the GMR and GVK-led consortiums that operate DEL and BOM. For e.g. Delhi T3, GMR had agreed to pay a stratospherical 46% as revenue share to AAI

- I think this year first 9 month's revenue share approaches ~Rs. 1000cr!

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 21 May 2013 19:24

It is still not late to privatize Chennai and Kolkata airports provided the DMK, chee-pee-em and mamatadi agree. You get what you elect.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 22 May 2013 01:32

I thought Chennai vaasis were all private and enterprising types onlee. DMK,AIADMK et al. are no commie intellectual state 100% literate types with endless debates. So what happened here ? How did they let AAI walk away with it. The Amma always has her way and so does the Appa, and I see no one else close to the corridors of power from there in the center.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 22 May 2013 01:56

IIRC, the Chennai airport had a DMK union at the airport which opposed. Kol was again due to union as there was a tussle between CPIM and TMC for control of the union and finally both opposed. Del at least (don't remember about Mum, Hyd, Blr) had the same problem with very strident union-baazi but the local Govt. and central Govt. stood firm and we have spanking airports.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 May 2013 18:39

The Chennai airport was handed over to AAI because of the need to pacify the Communist friends Karat, Yechury, Bardhan et al by the INC in order to stick to power in their first term. This was needed to let the Delhi, Bengaluru and Hyderabad airports take-off in PPP mode. The communists did not want Kolkatta airport to be in PPP mode. Chennai was also tagged along with it. The DMK which was sharing power with the INC could have easily taken the project off the AAI's hands but it was content to let that happen because their eyes were set on raking in moolah elsewhere.

I am hearing an even worse news. The AAI is demanding that the on-now-off-later Sriperumbudur greenfield airport project be handed over to it as if the damage it has already inflicted on Chennai airport users is not enough.

manish · Post by **manish** » 22 May 2013 21:09

SSridhar wrote: I am hearing an even worse news. The AAI is demanding that the on-now-off-later Sriperumbudur greenfield airport project be handed over to it as if the damage it has already inflicted on Chennai airport users is not enough.

Why not?

With estimates putting the requirements at 5,000 acres of land and Rs. 20,000 crores

(T3 was ~14,000 cr in 2007-10, on existing land parcel) there is just so much to be had by everyone...

Can't they be content with all the free moolah they are rolling in from the 4 pvt airports? They have 26% each in the operating cos of IGIA and CSIA plus 13% each in BIAL and RGIA in addition to the fat revenue shares that accrue to them from each of these?

BTW there are reports in the media that AAI is set to be split up to separate the navigational duties into a proposed Air Navigation Services Corp. Wonder how this will pan out.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 23 May 2013 00:00

If there is a more economically liberal Govt. in place one of the first targets for disinvestment should be to privatize Air India (if it can be sold?) and Airports (AAI should do just things like ATC, regulation, etc). The Govt. has no business running airlines and airports and wasting thousands of crores that can be better spend on other infra. It is even better to give it to FSB than spending on a few thousand union-baaz.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 May 2013 08:21

AI cannot be privatized unless the buyer is allowed freedom to reduce the workforce. and you know the unions will never agree to that.
with just few 1000 employees the AI is

- NOT a vote bank
- NOT employment generation patronage machine(like indian railways)
- NOT a goldmine for pilferage of stuff like coal (like IR)
- NOT a goldmine of casual and small contracts in the 1000s (like IR)
- does NOT run factories like rail coach or loco works

so why is the Govt so darn keen to keep it fed and clothed?

I believe because everyone from MLAs upward can get free rides for self and family around the country and abroad on AI? political muscle could be tied into the inflight food and casual labour contracts maybe.

that could be the only reason...I cannot think of any other clue.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 23 May 2013 08:48

I wonder if the airlines unions are affiliated to larger unions and the larger unions do no want any precedent set. I thought along the same lines for reserved list for small scale industries. How big a vote bank is that?

manish · Post by **manish** » 23 May 2013 10:07

Singha wrote:AI cannot be privatized unless the buyer is allowed freedom to reduce the workforce. and you know the unions will never agree to that.
with just few 1000 employees the AI is

- NOT a vote bank
- NOT employment generation patronage machine(like indian railways)
- NOT a goldmine for pilferage of stuff like coal (like IR)
- NOT a goldmine of casual and small contracts in the 1000s (like IR)
- does NOT run factories like rail coach or loco works

so why is the Govt so darn keen to keep it fed and clothed?

I believe because everyone from MLAs upward can get free rides for self and family around the country and abroad on AI? political muscle could be tied into the inflight food and casual labour contracts maybe.

that could be the only reason...I cannot think of any other clue.

This is happening. AI is quite a ways down the road of hiving off its MRO and ground handling businesses which is set to bring the AI's direct headcount down to some ~7-8000 or so IIRC. Then AI might become a more attractive divestment target, if at all.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 23 May 2013 12:43

hanumadu wrote:I wonder if the airlines unions are affiliated to larger unions and the larger unions do no want any precedent set. I thought along the same lines for reserved list for small scale industries. How big a vote bank is that?

Yes, they are affiliated to political parties. More than vote bank it could be signaling the end of union-baazi elsewhere which is the source of power for many political parties and leaders.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 23 May 2013 14:53

SSridhar wrote:I am hearing an even worse news. The AAI is demanding that the on-now-off-later Sriperumbudur greenfield airport project be handed over to it as if the damage it has already inflicted on Chennai airport users is not enough.

More power to "aai". For the way they maintain the new terminal, I think we all should rise up and demand AAI to stop collecting airport user fees.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 24 May 2013 05:58

Meanwhile at the AAI built airport.....

False ceiling panels collapse at Chennai domestic terminal

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/che ... 710717.ece

Thankfully no one was injured!

manish · Post by **manish** » 26 May 2013 21:50

Came across this online. Apparently NOT a photoshop

Said to have been published in Le Point of March 19, 1979.

Don't know if PIA would want this to be in the Mil Aviation thread though

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 May 2013 08:17

No end to ramp troubles at Chennai airport - Sunitha Sekar, The Hindu

First, it was the new domestic terminal that had a ramp problem – a faulty baggage ramp that gave airport officials trouble for weeks. Now, it’s the new international terminal’s turn – it has just one ramp leading to the baggage-handling area, and this may cause problems, airport officials said. {How can airport officials claim that as a problem now when they were the ones who designed and executed the project ?}

“While the new domestic terminal has two ramps – one each for the entry and exit of the battery-operated vehicles (known as tugs) that carry the bags, the international terminal will have just one,” said an official of the Airports Authority of India (AAI).

The movement of the tugs may be slower, as with only one ramp, both entering and exiting tugs will vie for space. Operators will also have to be extra careful while handling the tugs within the limited space, he said.

“In wide-bodied aircrafts, there are around 16 containers of baggage. It will be difficult for the tugs to shift them quickly. Instead of 30-40 minutes, passengers may have to wait for nearly an hour to collect their baggage. We will realise the extent of this problem when the terminal becomes operational” the official said. {What a complete bunch of incompetent jokers these AAI officials}

Officials of Creative Group, the company that designed the new terminals, said they had provided only one ramp at the international terminal due to space constraints.

“We had to make do with the limited land provided to us for the terminal. The ramp, which is about 10 metres wide, has been designed according to international standards,” said a company official.

Airport director H.S. Suresh said, “One ramp will suffice and will be able to handle the baggage load. There are no issues with the ramp as safety measures have been put in place,” he added.

Airport sources also indicated that the new international terminal may be thrown open for use only in the third week of June.

While at present 30 officers have been sanctioned for immigration, manpower is yet to be sanctioned for customs. “There may be a 30-40 per cent manpower shortage in immigration, customs and other departments. We need 60 officers in immigration but so far, only 30 have been sanctioned. In customs, we may need around 120 people. We have already asked for additional manpower and once we get that, the new terminal will be opened,” Mr. Suresh added.

At first, departures will begin with a couple of flights, with the existing manpower. Only when the there is adequate staff strength, will the new terminal begin full-fledged departure and arrival operations,” Mr. Suresh said.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 29 May 2013 21:23

Flew via Chennai airport in December. Hated every moment I was there. Shame they still haven't opened up the new terminal down the road. Whats more the airport is not kept clean at all and the baggage belt not working when I was there either.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 May 2013 08:26

False ceiling hangs loose in the new domestic terminal at Chennai
This is pathetic as everyday some bad news or the other appears about the shoddy work of the AAI.

A few panels of the false ceiling at the arrival hall of the new domestic terminal at Chennai airport were found loosely fitted on Wednesday.

“Passengers entering the arrival hall notice ceiling panels hanging loose. It may not be dangerous now; {This is the lackadaisical attitude of AAI. Absolutely callous. The moment they are not installed properly, they become dangerous as each one of them weighs a few Kilos. Even if they are not dangerous, is it ok to have a brand new airport with loosely hanging overhead fixtures ?} but if we are faced with a windy situation, like the last time, then the loose panels may pose a risk to passengers,” said an official of Airports Authority of India.

On May 12, about 20 false ceiling panels had collapsed near the security hold area of the departure hall in the new domestic terminal. Officials had blamed it on strong winds and thunderstorm.

“After that incident, officials have been inspecting the area constantly,” said airport director H.S. Suresh.

Wednesday’s incident, officials said, could be the result of poor follow-up to routine maintenance work.

Some of the panels may have been removed to carry out repairs. But they would have been replaced immediately, the official said.

“We don’t know which ones were loose. It may have happened after the ongoing maintenance work. But we are making efforts to inspect every area and ensure everything is set right soon,” the official said.

The inspection process that has been on for a while now will be completed in a week’s time.

“After the inspection, we will contact the false-ceiling supplier, Armstrong Ceilings India, and get the fixtures certified from them,” he said.

Early this month, The Hindu reported that glass panels had cracked on the airside of the new terminals at Chennai airport.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 May 2013 08:28

I sent a mail to my M.P. under whose constituency also falls the Airport. The M.P. does not even have an eMail. So, I sent it to him by surface mail and I am yet to get a reply. I am not even sure if he would be replying.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 30 May 2013 15:34

it probably ended up in dustbin