Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

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Vips
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Vips »

The youtube AV has some info.Check between 2:52 to 3:07



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rsingh
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by rsingh »

Why are we trying to recreate IWW type vintage crap? Who need such zhula these days? Complete waste of time and resources.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Zynda »

Vips, thanks for the screen grab. Looks like most of the changes are avionics, cockpit & powerplant related. I hope NAL all the success...
Indranil
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Indranil »

NAL just rolled out Hansa NG. There's already LOI for 30 aircrafts. Cockpit already certified.

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nachiket
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by nachiket »

rsingh wrote:Why are we trying to recreate IWW type vintage crap? Who need such zhula these days? Complete waste of time and resources.
It is unwise to make disparaging comments when you have no idea what you're talking about. Would you say the same about these similar aircraft as well? Or is the vitriol reserved for the desi one only?

Flight Design CT
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Pipistrel Alpha
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If you wish to know, they are meant for the general aviation market, particularly flying clubs who can use them for training or for personal use.
Vips
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Vips »

I hope the Hansa NG and the collaboration between NAL and Mesco is a success and it does not meet the same fate as the earlier collaboration and tie-up for Hansa 2 and Hansa 3 between Nal and TAAL -Taneja Aerospace and Aviation.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by rsingh »

My mistake Saar. Flew (many times) in such dibba Brussels-Ostend with friend . He had to complete his flying hours. Not many controls and basic machine. You rent it 120 Euro/hrs. I assume that world is already full such high end machines.Yes you have some TFTA tactile monitors and instruments.But if we talk about use. It as simple as that. listening the name Hansa for ages.......nothing to show. People who started after us are making airliners now.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Zynda »

Not sure if this has been posted here before but an interesting concept...
Image

It would be great if these guys can pull it off but it would be really expensive to build, certify & produce a mid-size airplane for a "start up"...3 sets of wings...
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by SriKumar »

265 passengers and just one engine?
One bird strike and then what happens? And engine reliability has to be 100%. No redundancy or backup available.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by arvin »

Its double engine. Stacked one on top of another.
Engine inspection would be a nightmare though.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by deejay »

rsingh wrote:My mistake Saar. Flew (many times) in such dibba Brussels-Ostend with friend . He had to complete his flying hours. Not many controls and basic machine. You rent it 120 Euro/hrs. I assume that world is already full such high end machines.Yes you have some TFTA tactile monitors and instruments.But if we talk about use. It as simple as that. listening the name Hansa for ages.......nothing to show. People who started after us are making airliners now.
Viz. Hansa - 12 new flight training schools starting. I am personally sitting on orders to source pre owned diamond 42s / 52s Cessna 172s etc by the dozens. It is difficult to import aircraft into India.

Hansa is a great welcome step. Lower cost, in country manufacturing. Theoretically, it will be easier to operate starting from low acquisition costs, lower waiting times, easier regulatory clearances, quicker spares support. But that is theory.

I only wish the manufacturer understands civilian market and takes care of buyers. They cannot hope to win the market with "shove it down their throat" attitude. They are pushing the Do 228 like that. It is chasing away people faster than they think. Ruag is doing better than them with a lower manufacturing capability but same aircraft relabled. The customer maybe a small player and you may be a big Giant. All the more reason that you hold their hand rather than bully into submissions. Business plans cannot take into account manufacturers lack of response.

Hoping that things turn around.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Vivek K »

rsingh- please educate yourself about the general aviation market and its potential worldwide. The Hansa is a step in that direction.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by rsingh »

^^^Will do Saar. It is true that I do not know much about aviation market and import policies of GOI. But that is not the point. Point is , there is no innovation. No new technology. Why are they celebrating this old machine with such fun-fare ? Availability of such machine in Indian market is completely another issue.
As a mango man, I am troubled that our (and your's) aspirations are fulfilled by such low level event which is equivalent to reinventing of wheel. I am waiting for really big news. When we will have our airliner, our own high end car (my blood boils seeing PM in BMW) ? Whey do we have small dreams. We need some Gadhkari type for science and technology. Salam
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by RajeevK »

rsingh wrote: As a mango man, I am troubled that our (and your's) aspirations are fulfilled by such low level event which is equivalent to reinventing of wheel.
I feel that is a wrong thinking. It is not just about reinventing the wheel, it is also how good a wheel you make. The whole Japanese auto industry progressed based on minor iterations, after all they were just making cars which was nothing new. Once you create a successful industry, it benefits the whole eco system that is part of the industry.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by rsingh »

Agree to disagree. No more on this from me. Back to aviation.
Indranil
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Indranil »

rsingh ji,

You are right. As far as airplanes go, these are simple airplanes. Therefore, isn't it a pity that we as a country can design and manufacture such simple planes?
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Kannan »

rsingh wrote:^^^Will do Saar. It is true that I do not know much about aviation market and import policies of GOI. But that is not the point. Point is , there is no innovation. No new technology. Why are they celebrating this old machine with such fun-fare ? Availability of such machine in Indian market is completely another issue.
As a mango man, I am troubled that our (and your's) aspirations are fulfilled by such low level event which is equivalent to reinventing of wheel. I am waiting for really big news. When we will have our airliner, our own high end car (my blood boils seeing PM in BMW) ? Whey do we have small dreams. We need some Gadhkari type for science and technology. Salam
The irony is that such a simple looking machine is fairly innovative. The big difference is the Rotax variant sips fuel compared to the older generation variants i.e the 172s/152s mentioned which passes on a dramatic cost savings to the user. A typical operational cost for a glass panel Rotax is on par with an equivalent weight steam gauge Lycoming powered craft. In additional to streamlining training, it could also help with maintenance etc. and would reduce barriers to entry to aviation.

I've found plenty of planes sitting around in India, but I've never been able find an instructor capable of administering any of the DGCA exams on me so I could fly them. Perhaps this pragmatic problem solver knows what tangible problems actually need to be addressed instead of dreaming about jet planes. Just a thought.

The plane itself looks like it'd fly like a Tecnam Sierra. Not entirely a fan of the single hinge canopy but looks fun, and hopefully cheaper than shipping all airline cadets to Phoenix!
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by rsingh »

Thanks for info. I wonder if "Rotax Variant sipping fuel " technology is first of its kind. Is it patented or just imported technology. If it is completely new technology, then I take my words back. You mentioned lack of instructors. That is completely different issue.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by saip »

Has anyone applied for frequent flyer number from Air India recently? I did it end of 2019. They wanted my father's name and then wife's husband's name and I was told to upload passport etc or I wont get the number. In any other airline it takes two minutes get the number and use it. Any way I got annoyed and told them in this day and age they should not be asking my father's name or my wife's husband's name and there is no necessity to upload the passport etc. to prove any thing as it is me who will suffer if the details are not correct. I did not get the number and I gave up and I have not used their air line after that (for that matter any other airline). Any way today I just checked again. What do you know? They got rid of the questions about father's name and husband's name. Now it is not necessary to upload passport to register but you have to do that only when you want to use the miles.
May be someone DOES read the emails.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Mort Walker »

^^^Wife’s husband’s name? I’m not familiar with CA pronoun convention, but shouldn’t that be your name?

The information AI wants is in previous or current reservation based on PNR or Record Locator.

AI is a bloated airlines and needs to be privatized over a couple of years.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by darshan »

Gujarat government borne certain expenses of Surat airport; RTI reveals
https://www.deshgujarat.com/2021/06/30/ ... i-reveals/
Surat: It has come to light through RTI application reply that Government of Gujarat borne the expenses of Rs 33 crores for basic infrastructure at Surat Airport for last 18 years. Surat airport has therefore become the first airport in the country whose expenses are borne by state government rather than the Airport Authority of India (AAI).
...
AAI informed in an answer to an RTI application that the period under MoU signed between AAI and GoG was 3 years. So, the term of this MoU has ended in 2010 but the costs of basic amnesties are still borne by the state government and SMC. However, the revenue which is generated through the airport goes to AAI and state government doesn’t get any amount of it.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chola »

How Cheen leverages its market to create an industry.

There is a massive lesson to be learnt here as India's market is the third largest in the world.

https://amp.ft.com/content/09024b14-682 ... 10afc5151b
China’s rival to Boeing and Airbus set to join battle for the skies

State-backed Comac’s C919 nears commercial approval as trade tensions rise with the west

...

“Comac is not a threat to anyone outside of China,” said Richard Aboulafia, vice-president at aerospace consultancy Teal Group. “But China is the biggest export market on the planet.”

Comac’s arrival comes amid heightened trade tensions between the west and China, and concerns among western industry executives at a rise in protectionism from Beijing.

“It’s a political game . . . we’ll buy more aircraft if you invest more in China,” said one.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by jaysimha »


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CSIR The HANSA - two eat aircraft for pilot training
Vips
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Vips »

Hansa-NG makes first flight.

The National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL) said that the new generation HANSA (Hansa-NG), a two-seater aircraft designed and developed by it, successfully made its maiden flight of 20 minutes on Friday.

“The aircraft took off from HAL airport at 2.09pm and flew at an altitude of 4,000ft and gained a speed of 80 knots before landing,” NAL said. Test
pilot Captain Amit Dahiya, who piloted the aircraft, described the first flight as a “textbook mission” where all parameters were normal.
“The unique features of HANSA-NG are the glass cockpit with cabin comfort, high efficient digitally-controlled engine, electrically operated
flaps, long endurance, low acquisition and operating cost,” NAL said.

NAL has already received 72 letters of intent (LoIs) from various flying clubs and the aircraft, NAL said, will be certified in the next four months after which the process of induction would begin.

Friday’s flight was monitored in telemetry by senior officers and scientists from the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) and the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification (Cemilac).

Shekhar C Mande, secretary, DSIR (dept of scientific and industrial research), under which NAL operates, said a private player has already been identified for series production of the aircraft.

As reported by TOI earlier, HANSA-NG was rolled out on March 31, 2021, and at the time, NAL had 30 LoIs from flying clubs for the purchase of the new aircraft.

HANSA-NG is an upgraded version of HANSA, which saw the first flight in 1993, and was certified in 2000. Between 2000 and 2007, NAL developed 12 HANSA aircraft which were delivered to flying clubs across India through the DGCA (directorate general of civil aviation). It has since logged more than 4,000 flying hours with IIT-Kanpur still flying the aircraft.

The Centre approved HANSA-NG in 2018 and NAL retro-modified HANSA-3 aircraft with a glass cockpit and got it certified by DGCA.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chetak »

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by chetak »

Tata Sons wins the bid for national carrier Air India. Tata Sons was the highest bidder. Union Home Minister Amit Shah-led ministerial panel has given approval to this bid: Sources
via@ANI·2h



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Last edited by chetak on 01 Oct 2021 17:19, edited 1 time in total.
Cyrano
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

FM has called this report as untrue. No decision announced yet
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Sachin »

Coming full circle: Tatas back in Air India cockpit
This is now confirmed. Maharajah is going back to the Tatas.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by arshyam »

Good. I hope no one has the bright idea of nationalising it again.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by vsunder »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/indianexpr ... 0664/lite/

They have exactly 3 years to make the Jewar airport operational. Does anyone know the progress.
Last edited by vsunder on 09 Oct 2021 04:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by vsunder »

double post deleted
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by arvin »

With Tatas getting back Air India, this is the second time under this govt that an airline has been restored to its original owner. Earlier in 2015, Ajay Singh got back Spicejet from Maran by paying Rs 2.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by SriKumar »

I don’t know why people see it as Air India ‘returning’ to Tata, as if Tata willingly let the airlines be nationalized, or that they ‘got it back’ for free. They went through an auction just like anybody else and purchased it. And are taking on a whole lot of headaches with the union issues. I am just glad the Tatas are still around and strong enough to purchase a massive airline.

One thing I fervently hope is the free tickets for politicians and their extended family ends. I recall that when Prez KR Narayanan went on a foreign trip, the accompaniment was over 50-75 family members. And the next minister who slaps an AI employee is arrested rather than put on a no-fly list.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by isubodh »

SriKumar wrote: One thing I fervently hope is the free tickets for politicians and their extended family ends.
This is purely imotional, companies pay corers to parties. They can pay in tickets too. Not our problem now
With AI Consolidated fund of India paying the shortfall, it was a Taxpayers concern.
Now Tata's need to manage it so it remains competitive. GoI just to ensure all private airlines get level playing field ...unlike Jet which got lot of policy changes or AI which got unlimited capital infusion to keep airlines float. This distorts the market.

We need a regulator for aviation, to spare Ministry for stratagic vision creation only
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by arvin »

Yes, the deal was done in a transparent way and they won by fair auction. But the finer nuances were quite interesting to me.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by SriKumar »

isubodh wrote:
SriKumar wrote: One thing I fervently hope is the free tickets for politicians and their extended family ends.
This is purely imotional.
I think you missed the point.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by SriKumar »

arvin wrote:Yes, the deal was done in a transparent way and they won by fair auction. But the finer nuances were quite interesting to me.
Indeed. I am especially curious about how the union issues were negotiated (with the bloat and the potential for retrenchment etc.)

Unrelated to above but one point made in the past to keep it GOI owned was strategic airlift (re. Gulf in 1990, Yemen etc.). I was always sceptical about that, and turns out it was not an issue after all.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by nachiket »

SriKumar wrote:
arvin wrote:Yes, the deal was done in a transparent way and they won by fair auction. But the finer nuances were quite interesting to me.
Indeed. I am especially curious about how the union issues were negotiated (with the bloat and the potential for retrenchment etc.)
Air India divestment: Tata to retain all employees for 1 year
- The employees will be provided gratuity benefits and provident fund benefits as per the law of the land
- Post-retirement medical benefits for those who have retired or will retire in future will be protected

“The winning bidder will retain all employees, which means they will not retrench anybody for a period of one year. Thereafter, for the second year, if anybody is to be retrenched or removed, they will be offered a VRS," said Civil Aviation Secretary Rajeev Bansal on Friday while announcing the new owner of the embattled carrier.
Tatas have to ride this out for another year. Even later since AI is heavily overstaffed, the retrenchment process once it begins will likely be long and complicated and we might see strikes and other problems. I don't envy whoever the Tatas will appoint to manage this mess.
Vips
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Vips »

One way TATA can improve the employee to aircraft ratio is by clubbing all its airlines business under Air India. and have the lazy employee's also manage the fleets which is presently under Vistara and Air Asia. Of course they will have to rationalize the staff at the later two. Other way of managing through natural attrition - not replacing employees going out through retirement is a very long drawn one.
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

Air India has about 12K permanent employees and 4 or 5K temp staffers. With kf, jet etc folding and international glut, there is surely enough young skilled pilots, crew, ground ops staff in the market. Wont be a huge challenge to rejig and revitalise the workforce. Even those who were lazy before can buck up and do a better job. The rest can take VRS when that comes.
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