Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 01 Oct 2009 14:00

Thanks..was not carrying my camera and my puny phone camera would not do justice to this, so did not even attempt..

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 04 Oct 2009 05:59

Paging Suppiah..

Air India pilots, crew slug it out at 30,000 ft

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news ... 085243.cms

The Maharaja witnessed his first in-flight Mughal-e-Azam at 30,000 feet above sea level on Saturday, as two members of the cabin
crew—one male and one female—slugged it out with the pilot and co-pilot.

Endangering the lives of 106 passengers and grossly violating safety norms, the airline staffers came to blows in the cockpit and galley of the Indian Airlines Airbus A-320 as the aircraft cruised over Pakistan en route to Delhi via Lucknow from Sharjah.

There were unconfirmed reports that at one stage the cockpit was unmanned, as the crew was busy fighting outside. Things allegedly degenerated to the point where the captain threatened to divert the plane to Karachi, likening the situation, sources said, to a "hijack".

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 04 Oct 2009 08:03

One safe guess...it cannot be over a stewardess..

Amit Singh · Post by **Amit Singh** » 04 Oct 2009 15:25

That was just too bizarre! I'm surprised they are not taken into custody for risking the life of passengers! They could have fought it out after the aircraft landed!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 Oct 2009 23:58

The auto pilot flies the plane most of the times anyways, but rules mandate that someone - the pilot or the copilot MUST be at the helm to oversee the plane at all times it is in the air.

If the cockpit was indeed unmanned, this is very serious.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Oct 2009 11:44

I think the co-pilot came out to fight, the pilot remained in his seat but verbally supported his co-pilot it seems.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 05 Oct 2009 12:02

Singha wrote:I think the co-pilot came out to fight, the pilot remained in his seat but verbally supported his co-pilot it seems.

Psychotic public sector prima donnas duking it out midair in the cockpit ?

National airline my ****.

Its high time that this company quickly faded into the night.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 05 Oct 2009 12:34

The rule says if one of the pilots leave the seat, the other one must don the oxygen mask and the 5 point harness.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 08 Oct 2009 20:48

http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busine ... 18540.html

Wolfgang Prock-Schauer to step down as Jet Airways CEO

Wolfgang Prock Schauer plans to step down as the Chief Executive Officer of Jet Airways on October 15 and Nikos Kardassis would take over as the acting CEO.

In his address to mediapersons, Wolfgang Prock-Schauer said he would take up the post as Chief Executive for British Midland International (BMI) in Europe where the rest of his family resides. “I am not leaving because I don’t have hope for this airline. I think it is clearly the best positioned airline in terms of network coverage, in terms of product quality. I want to specifically highlight in terms of the people who work here both at the management level and down to all the flight attendants and people we have at the airport. So, it is a really fantastic team we have here.”

Wonder how much of it has to do with the pilot strike fiasco..

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 12 Oct 2009 08:12

Crisis ridden Air India meanwhile is trying to retrieve the situation in a U.S market where it has poor ratings. Starting December 1, India's sarkari airline is going to meet a long standing demand from passengers in the Washington DC region to connect directly to New Delhi.

"Direct" but not non-stop, since the flight will be a Washington DC--New York--New Delhi-Kolkata shuttle. The current New York-Delhi non-stop is just getting an extension at both ends. Still, it's the first step in directly linking the two capitals with the same aircraft.

AIr-India direct flights connecting capitals

For the longest time, European carriers such as BA, KLM, Air France and Lufthansa have had a run of the US-India route, especially from the East Coast, with transit through European hubs. But now gulf carriers such as Qatar Airways and Emirates are muscling into the market, enticing Indian flyers to fly through the Doha and Dubai, instead of through London, Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt etc.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 14 Oct 2009 16:37

Flight drama

Air passengers have told how they had to tie a Dubai-based taxi driver to a seat after he went berserk on a flight from the UAE.

The 28-year-old had to be restrained after assaulting crew members and fellow passengers on the Air India Express flight from Dubai to Mangalore, India.

The violent incident happened just a week after a mid-air brawl broke out between pilots and cabin crew on a flight by the firm’s parent company,
Air India.

Eyewitnesses to the latest incident said the passenger even threatened to open the door of the plane while it was in flight.

Eventually, passengers and cabin crew restrained him by tying him to a seat.

Nikhil Manale, a passenger on the plane, told 7DAYS: “We were shocked by his behaviour. He was uncontrollable and abusive.

“There was absolute panic on the plane. Everyone was scared that this guy might do something extreme and create more problems.

I never expected such a thing to happen on a plane when it was in mid-air.”

Madhukar Suvarna, another passenger, said he tied both the man’s hands and legs to a seat so that he could not cause any more problems.

“He was behaving like a madman, running up and down the aisle and spitting at passengers. He even tried to open the door,” he said.

Air India Express flight IX812 left Dubai at 1.30am on Sunday and the trouble started 30 minutes after its departure as the cabin crew started serving meals.

The passenger was said to be sitting awkwardly in his seat and pressing his nose against his fingers.

Thinking that he was sick, cabin crew went to help him, but the man became violent and started lashing out at anyone nearby.

“I have heard about passengers behaving rudely to cabin crew but this is the first time that I have heard of a passenger assaulting cabin crew and abusing fellow passengers,” said Chellam Prasad, the station manager of Air India at Mangalore Airport.

She said the man was not drunk but appeared to be stressed. She added that he told a doctor at the airport he was upset he had not been granted leave to go to India during the Eid festivities.

The restrained passenger was handed over to the airport security as soon as the plane landed and police are investigating the case.

Air India said the man worked as a cab driver in Dubai.

Prasad said the only male member of cabin crew on the flight, Nayan Purohitf, had been punched in the face and suffered bruising and swelling around his eyes and mouth.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 15 Oct 2009 15:27

Govt to infuse Rs 5000 crore in AI

Pathetic, without describing what are the cost cutting measures, tax payers are pouring 5000 crores on Air parasites.

saptarishi · Post by **saptarishi** » 17 Oct 2009 14:03

kmkraoind wrote:Govt to infuse Rs 5000 crore in AI

Pathetic, without describing what are the cost cutting measures, tax payers are pouring 5000 crores on Air parasites.

out of 5000 crore 4999 crores will go to babus' pockets only 1 crore will reach air india

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Oct 2009 11:16

amir khan using arrogant porki tactics in India?

Increasing use of civilian call signs by amir khan aeroplanes carrying military cargo and / or personnel.

http://www.indiapress.org/gen/news.php/The_Pioneer/

FLASH | Sunday, October 18, 2009

US plane forced to land in Mumbai for airspace violation

PTI | Mumbai

A US aircraft with 205 American Marine commandos on board was on Sunday made to land at Mumbai airport for allegedly violating the Indian airspace.

The chartered plane was on its way from Fujiriah in Middle East to Bangkok, an airport official said. The aircraft was using a civilian call sign, officials said.

"A US aircraft with 205 US Marines on board, on its way from Fujiriah to Bangkok, was forced to land in Mumbai while overflying Indian airspace as there was some confusion about its call sign," a Mumbai International Airport Limited spokesperson said.

The aircraft landed at Mumbai airport at 0752 hours and has been parked at a remote bay, the spokesperson said adding, all passengers are on board.

Indian Air Force is looking into the issue, the spokesperson said.

sreeji · Post by **sreeji** » 07 Nov 2009 13:32

link
Zurich Airport had said a month ago that it had initiated the process of divesting 12% of its total shareholding of 17% in BIAL. The company, which had invested 18 million Swiss Francs (Rs 75 crore at the then exchange rate) in the airport project, had said it was looking at getting 100 million Swiss Francs (about Rs 460 crore) for the 12% stake. The deal with GVK announced on Thursday values the stake higher at about 105 million Swiss Francs.
For Zurich Airport, that's an over 700% return on its investment in about four years, given that it was in 2005 that the airport's financial closure happened and construction began.

I had assumed that BIAL would be reeling under losses and that it served them right, but here they are rolling in money.

vina · Post by **vina** » 11 Nov 2009 09:29

Hmm. Sure to get "I don't need no namby pamby FBW" Mullah Eqyoob's goat.

This book says that the the successful landing in the successful landing in the Hudson had much much more to do with FBW than Capt Sullenberger.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 11 Nov 2009 19:07

Air Parasite posts a loss of 5,548 crores

http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/ ... e-loss.htm

That is 15.2 crores a day, 63.3 lakhs an hour, 1.05 lakhs a minute and 1759 Rs per second of loss just by existing.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 12 Nov 2009 10:02

Now that someone has mentioned both parasites and A320 in successive posts, can someone remember, didn't the parasite pilots threatened to go on strike if A320s are not grounded because of the FBW? They were arguing that it is dangerous and unsafe..this was in early 90s

Talking of AP, now the senior (including Board level) parasites are losing lakhs of 'productivity' incentive which is as high as 5 lakhs a month! One wonders what they will plunder when the airline really becomes productive, profitable, efficient and customer friendly. They are now blaming the ministry for 'mistakes' such as buying aircraft. That is it - it is a mistake for an airline to buy planes. This is exactly what I said years ago in this very forum when AI initialised the proposal - that it is like giving a garland to monkeys as the saying in Tamil goes. Now the AI board members have confirmed that. Read today's TOI(let) paper for more info...

Seriously it is strange that the BOD also talks the same language as the clerical parasites. When it comes to plundering the tax payers and growing fat, everyone is a 'socialist' in this great nation...

Umrao Das · Post by **Umrao Das** » 12 Nov 2009 10:08

Tanaji wrote:Air Parasite posts a loss of 5,548 crores

http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/ ... e-loss.htm

That is 15.2 crores a day, 63.3 lakhs an hour, 1.05 lakhs a minute and 1759 Rs per second of loss just by existing.

Nothing New

even in in 1979 1980s era
COAL INDIA used to cost exchequer much more thanthose figures not adjusting for inflation ( or PV)

Now to my pet peeve
do a math on OFPs.... that too with captive customer like IA IAF IN Para Military RPF RR etc etc....

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 12 Nov 2009 23:07

Met a senior AI chap on the weekend. Story is that matters are so grim, insiders are taking it a day at a time.

He has now not been paid for 3 months.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 14 Nov 2009 21:06

Parasites that have been forced to suspend their plunder can resume it from December, at least partially..

AI gets Rs.800cr of our hard earned money to waste again..and this is only the first tranche...

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 15 Nov 2009 00:57

Indian Aerospace SEZ Launched

This is great news. India needs to shift upwards towards high-end manufacturing ASAP.
Some Indian manufacturers ought to be able to leapfrog the Chinese stage of manufacturing plastic dogsh*t.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 17 Nov 2009 18:33

Suppiah wrote:Parasites that have been forced to suspend their plunder can resume it from December, at least partially..

AI gets Rs.800cr of our hard earned money to waste again..and this is only the first tranche...

The feeding trough is getting ready to be filled for the parasites. 400 crores in Jan

http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/ ... in-jan.htm

girish.r · Post by **girish.r** » 17 Nov 2009 20:13

Tanaji wrote:
Suppiah wrote:Parasites that have been forced to suspend their plunder can resume it from December, at least partially..

AI gets Rs.800cr of our hard earned money to waste again..and this is only the first tranche...
The feeding trough is getting ready to be filled for the parasites. 400 crores in Jan

http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/ ... in-jan.htm

... and here we were discussing revival of our flag carrier.

the moment they decide to take a step forth, unions and BABUS are going to push it back.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 17 Nov 2009 20:55

We need a flag carrier about as much as we need a flag software company, flag car marker, flag TV maker, flag condom maker etc. If we need one at all, IMHO GOI should announce that any Indian airline owned > 50% by resident Indians (not someone based in Karachi

) should qualify as "flag carrier" for 3 years if they come out tops in some well defined criteria such as capacity, accident rates, ontime etc. It can come with some benefits such as being sole carrier for PM/President etc., though I doubt if any airline with commercial sense would call that a benefit.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 17 Nov 2009 21:04

Suppiah wrote:We need a flag carrier about as much as we need a flag software company, flag car marker, flag TV maker, flag condom maker etc. If we need one at all, IMHO GOI should announce that any Indian airline owned > 50% by resident Indians (not someone based in Karachi ) should qualify as "flag carrier" for 3 years if they come out tops in some well defined criteria such as capacity, accident rates, ontime etc. It can come with some benefits such as being sole carrier for PM/President etc., though I doubt if any airline with commercial sense would call that a benefit.

Beg to differ, A flag carrier is a strategic asset, which can be used in many ways.
The problem is not government ovnership, but the formula the GOI apply to run its business. It almost always fails. Air India, ITI, HAL, ONGC, Indian Oil etc etc.
But look at Singapore, they manage to run their airlines, ports, refineries etc with good results. Perhaps the Indian Babu, should take the flight to Singapore and learn a bit about management. If they really want to do it even better, then perhaps the management school in Ahemedabad can be an alternative.

manju · Post by **manju** » 18 Nov 2009 03:13

OT, but need some infor for personal travel..

Am travelling from USA to India via Paris (Charles De Gaulle Airport)- only transiting. Do I need a French visa? I have Indian Passport.

French emabssy English webpage sucks- could not get any useful info and no one seems to answer the phone either.

Thanks in advance

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 18 Nov 2009 03:47

manju wrote:OT, but need some infor for personal travel..

Am travelling from USA to India via Paris (Charles De Gaulle Airport)- only transiting. Do I need a French visa? I have Indian Passport.

French emabssy English webpage sucks- could not get any useful info and no one seems to answer the phone either.

Thanks in advance

If you have any valid US visa stamp on your passport (not just something like say H1B extension papers or AP ), then you can travel via France or UK without a transit visa. If the US visa stamp on your passport has expired, then you need a transit visa.

manju · Post by **manju** » 18 Nov 2009 06:00

Dhanyavad

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 18 Nov 2009 06:02

Sorry for interfering in personal travel plans, but WTF do we Indians need to transit through airports that treat us so bad, they insist on visa even for transit? There are many beautiful countries to transit through that do not insist on it, and some even give day trips free...Singapore, Bangkok, Taiwan, HK, Colombo, Taiwan, Korea, the list is long...if western routes are more convenient then there are places like Istanbul, even ME though I am not sure about connectivity.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 18 Nov 2009 06:09

One reason is faster travel times. The European carriers offer direct flights to many secondary cities in US that Asian carriers don't, and also avoiding the long layovers on asian routes. For e.g. if you want to fly from Denver to Bangalore, British and Lufthansa offer you one stop service with total flight time of less than 24 hours. If you want to fly asian carriers, you will need to fly through SFO/LAX with a 5-10 hour halt in Kuala Lampur/Singapore etc and your total flight time is easily 30+ hours.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 18 Nov 2009 08:43

Suppiah wrote:Sorry for interfering in personal travel plans, but WTF do we Indians need to transit through airports that treat us so bad, they insist on visa even for transit? There are many beautiful countries to transit through that do not insist on it, and some even give day trips free...Singapore, Bangkok, Taiwan, HK, Colombo, Taiwan, Korea, the list is long...if western routes are more convenient then there are places like Istanbul, even ME though I am not sure about connectivity.

What RaviBg said, esp to those flying to Bangalore. But i still would rather fly directly to IGI/Mumbai (i flew Air India on my last visit, red eye flight to Bangalore) than through CDG or LHR. It's a bit pricey but Emirates has some nice connections to Bangalore through Dubai. If i can help it, i'll never transit through CDG again.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 18 Nov 2009 08:57

factor in the time and money to get a darn transit visa and the 5 to 6 hours is nothing

not worth the hassle and arrogance of these nations

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 18 Nov 2009 11:17

Cathay Pacific is a very good option to Bangalore from west coast or rockies. Their day flight from San Francisco reaches HK at about 7PM local time, and the connecting flight to Bangalore is three hours later, reaching Bangalore at 1:00AM or so at night. They're apparently adding a flight to Chicago soon. Indians don't need any sort of visa for a 2 week stay in HK, so if you take the night flight and have a long day's wait for the evening connection you can just step out into the city. Singapore will give you visa free transit facility if you hold US visa or GC. Same for South Korea at Seoul airport, where they'll likely grant you visa-free access if you have a visa from US, Canada and some other western countries.

This website is a very useful tool to figure out the 'do I need a visa' question.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 18 Nov 2009 11:48

Suraj wrote:This website is a very useful tool to figure out the 'do I need a visa' question.

Dont understand, has something changed? Just did a test and both Denmark (Copenhagen) and Sweden (Stockholm) turned up showing transit visa required for general category indians (without US visa etc) though I clearly remember transiting thru both airports, the destination was Milan.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 18 Nov 2009 12:07

So you were transiting one Schengen area country (Sweden/Denmark) on the way to another (Italy) ? In that case your Schengen visa would have served the purpose.

Another country that allows visa-free transit and entry is Taiwan, which lets you enter for 30 days if you have a valid US visa or permanent residency.

I know you don't need a transit visa for Japan if your connection is <=72 hours and you remain airside. If you are transiting and go landside, you need a visa in advance, but the fee is apparently US $1

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 18 Nov 2009 14:31

Sorry yes, that's true re schengen..whenever I flew to US it was through Tokyo (except for one thru Schipol) and never any visa issues. Taiwan is a beautiful country to visit and people are very polite and nice. In smaller towns there is considerable curiosity/goodwill towards Indians.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 20 Nov 2009 18:38

vasu_ray · Post by **vasu_ray** » 21 Nov 2009 10:25

CAT 3 compliance!

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 253295.cms

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Nov 2009 07:19

I have posted here many times before about radars failing at Chennai airport. It failed once again

The Mono-pulse Secondary Surveillance Radar at the Chennai Airport broke down on Wednesday evening.

It was restored on Thursday evening.

AAI officials said each MSSR usually has two calibration performance monitoring equipment. But, the Chennai radar had only one and that also failed on Wednesday.

Following this, the Air Traffic Controllers were unable to provide radar separation for flights in the north-west and south-west sectors, besides those over-flying Chennai Air Traffic Control.

On Thursday afternoon, the equipment was brought from Mangalore. Radar operation was restored around 6 p.m. on Thursday, sources said.