Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Suppiah
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2569
Joined: 03 Oct 2002 11:31
Location: -
Contact:

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suppiah » 02 Jul 2008 14:42

How much more no-frill can the low cost terminal be?! Already there is only two toilets with 3 cubicles each serving all holding area, plus no internet terminals, no laptop charging bays, no nothing, plus price gouging by shops. Hope they dont expect the customers to go and load the luggage themselves in the cargo bay of the aircraft.

saip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3550
Joined: 17 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby saip » 03 Jul 2008 16:49



Could not he have gone for a civilian Dhruv?

Suppiah
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2569
Joined: 03 Oct 2002 11:31
Location: -
Contact:

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suppiah » 03 Jul 2008 17:24

In case you guys did not know Tiger airways now flies BLR-SIN, five days a week. Plus Dragon Air is flying HK direct. A lot of the US traffic used to fly SIN losing about 7-8 hrs, now they can fly through Cathay straight. Two big nails in the coffin of parasite air, at least for this sector.

Vipul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3728
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 03:30

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vipul » 04 Jul 2008 00:14

Kingfisher, SpiceJet near share swap deal.

Kingfisher Airlines is close to sealing a share-swap deal with Delhi-based, low-cost carrier SpiceJet, sources close to the development said.The share swap is expected to be in the ratio of 1: 3, where SpiceJet shareholders will get one share of the merged entity for every three SpiceJet shares owned by them.

The deal, if it is finally clinched, will give Kingfisher promoter Vijay Mallya access to a formidable route network, making it the largest aviation player in the country with nearly 40 per cent market share. Mallya, who is currently in Europe, said he will comment on the matter tomorrow.

The sources said Kingfisher will fly its recently acquired Simplify Deccan on regional routes and SpiceJet on the metro route as a low-cost airline. The deal also makes sense as Spicejet's Boeing fleet will make it easier for Mallya to fly to the US.

SpiceJet flies to 15 destinations with 94 flights a day. The Kingfisher-Deccan combine, with 83 aircraft, flies to 63 destinations with 440 flights a day.

Market sources said a share-swap deal is the only way for both the companies to seal the deal in a cash-starved market. The existing promoters will not be given cash, the sources said.For SpiceJet, the merger makes sense in view of the mounting losses in adverse market conditions. The airline had already appointed Rothschild for deciding the way forward. The airline had planned to raise $100 million for fleet expansion, but is yet to get investors.

SpiceJet's promoters – such as London-based Bhupendra Kansagra, who has a 12.9 per cent stake in the airline – had earlier expressed a desire to exit the airline, if valuations were right. Kansagra, however, had denied any formal deal with Kingfisher.Other promoters, like investment firm Ishtitmar (13.4 per cent stake), have said they want to raise stake in the airline, but have not made any commitment so far. The tatas hold a 6 per cent stake.

putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4421
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby putnanja » 04 Jul 2008 00:26

Kingfisher, SpiceJet near share swap deal.
The deal also makes sense as Spicejet's Boeing fleet will make it easier for Mallya to fly to the US.



I don't know what these DDM smoke. All spicejet has is narrowbody boeing 737s. You cant fly to US from India on that unless you want to stop at multiple places.

Sam CS
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 33
Joined: 02 Dec 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Sam CS » 04 Jul 2008 03:59

RaviBg wrote:
Kingfisher, SpiceJet near share swap deal.
The deal also makes sense as Spicejet's Boeing fleet will make it easier for Mallya to fly to the US.



I don't know what these DDM smoke. All spicejet has is narrowbody boeing 737s. You cant fly to US from India on that unless you want to stop at multiple places.


It is baloney indeed. Some people REALLY believe you need to buy Boeing aircraft, or the US wouldn't let you fly into the country.

That aside, Mallya seems to be making blunder after blunder. What good is the Boeing 737 fleet of SpiceJet going to do to him?

He's already got a mighty messed up set of International plans. He seems to be postponing plans to fly the A340-500s non-stop BLR-SFO. And his other route is BLR-JFK. And his long haul order sheet contains 5 of every Airbus widebody ever made.

Considering Jet Airways' very pragmatic Euro-hub plans seem to have been screwed by Brussels Airport, it seems like nearly 99% of US-India traffic will never be flying an Indian Private Carrier in the next 5 years, at least.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23489
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 04 Jul 2008 07:57

Nawabi Class

On Hyderabad airport.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23489
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 04 Jul 2008 08:13

Flight incidents in India and dangerous cover-ups

As usual, this former pilot and safety expert brings out valid points.
Image

The aviation system in India suffers from a chronic disease.

Unfortunately, the system lacks ‘apoptosis’, which is required for cell death in multi-cellular organisms. Civil aviation in the country is run and controlled by a single cell — the Ministry of Civil Aviation. The heads of various ag encies seem to be selected less for their knowledge or experience and more for their pliable and compliant nature.

If the Ministry cannot find a suitable candidate from the department with these features, the posts are filled up with persons from the Administrative cadre who lack awareness of the subject.

Several recent events in the aviation sector show up the system in poor light. A good and safe system would address the root of the problem and find a permanent solution. In the US, independent agencies such as the National Transportation Safety Board, use their databanks on accidents / incident investigations, to identify the fundamental reason behind a problem and the ideal solution to prevent a recurrence.

In India, since the system lacks independence or professionalism, we resort to cover-ups.
Asleep at controls?

On June 4, 2008, an Air India (formerly Indian Airlines) flight on the Dubai-Delhi-Jaipur-Mumbai sector left Dubai around 1.30 am Dubai time. On the last leg, from Jaipur to Mumbai, both the cockpit crew were out of communication with the Air Traffic Control for more than 45 minutes.

When a media report, almost a fortnight later, described this situation as ‘the cockpit crew sleeping at the controls’, the airline officials went into denial mode. They denied that the crew overslept and stated clearly that there was a “communication failure for a few minutes” and that the aircraft overshot Mumbai just by a few kilometres, and not as mentioned in the media report.

The aircraft was flying at an altitude of 30,000 feet. The flight passes through the Ahmedabad air traffic control area and gets transferred to the Mumbai control while approaching Songadh. Ahmedabad ATC had tried to contact the aircraft several times before this point but without any response. Aircraft flying in the region had also tried, without success.

When Mumbai ATC tried to establish contact, either directly or through aircraft in the region, there was still no response. Finally, contact was established through a system called SelCal (selective calling).

Each aircraft is assigned a four-letter code, like a telephone number. When the ATC wants to establish contact with an aircraft, they uses this facility, without disturbing other aircraft.
Procedure not followed

The period the aircraft was out of radio contact was more than 45 minutes. International procedure requires that an aircraft which loses communication with air traffic control has to follow a pre-defined procedure:

Use the code 7600 on the transponder;

Fly to the destination Primary Navigation facility (in this case the Mumbai VOR);

Join the race-track holding pattern over the facility at the last assigned altitude;

Commence a descent overhead in the holding pattern as close to the Expected Approach time;

Fly the full instrument approach procedure and land.

The Air India aircraft did not change the transponder code to 7600. The crew did not try to establish radio contact on all the available frequencies or radios. If they were able to respond to the SelCal, it means their HF/RT (High Frequency Radio Transceiver) was functional. When they came overhead of the primary navigation facility at Mumbai, the ‘BBB’ VOR, they did not turn left to join the holding pattern, but crossed the facility and continued on for a good 45 nautical miles (around 80 km) and not ‘15 km’, as mentioned by the airline’s spokesperson.

The procedure for the holding pattern is a turn on a heading of 266 degrees, but the aircraft had continued over the sea on a heading of about 198 degrees, which is the heading maintained from Songadh to Mumbai.

Until the aircraft crosses the ‘BBB’ VOR, the last selected waypoint on the route from Jaipur to Mumbai, the auto-pilot would have maintained the aircraft on the “managed mode” — using the Lateral Navigation and Vertical Navigation (LNAV and VNAV) features of the flight management system.

After crossing the VOR, the autopilot would have tripped out of the managed mode to just the ‘Heading Select and Vertical Speed- HDG SEL & V/S”. The aircraft will continue to fly the last heading maintained at the time of reverting from the managed mode, and the last vertical speed, in this case ‘0’, as the aircraft was flying level.

The question here is: Either the crew overslept or they had communication failure. If they overslept, the question of fatigue comes into picture and there is a clear deficiency in the airline’s operating system. If it was a communication failure, the crew were unaware of the international communication failure procedure and it is questionable how they were allowed to operate flights when they were not competent.

Runway confusion

The second case is what is termed in aviation safety terminology as “runway confusion”. In June 2007, a private airline’s aircraft landed on the wrong runway at Delhi airport. Strangely, a year later and almost to the date, the same airline committed the same error, at the same airport. It is a clear case of lack of training standards that such an event can take place on a clear day in visual conditions.

Fortunately, in both the instances, the runway, which was closed, was not occupied by personnel or vehicles. Memory is short in India. The air safety world is aware of what happened to a Singapore Airlines 747 which took off on a closed runway at Taipei. Training and procedures were introduced by that airline to prevent a recurrence of such an event.

In countries where safety takes priority over commercial considerations, these events are addressed immediately and training and safety oversight procedures are introduced to prevent a disaster. Unfortunately, our civil aviation system believes more in cover-ups and how to improve the commercial aspects rather than safety aspects.

In 2007, Indian aviation saw more than nine over-runs in wet runway conditions. Runway maintenance procedures are not as per the standards laid down by the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO). It has been pointed out repeatedly to the Airport Authority of India and the DGCA that the friction testing tyres used by the AAI are not accurate, and the runway friction readings given out by them are inflated and dangerous.

In a recent letter to the Chairman of the AAI, Ms Delia Harverson, a leading expert from the UK who conducted the workshop for the AAI in Chennai, pointed out that the AAI continues to follow incorrect procedures. This was backed by an e-mail from the head of the Annex 14 section of the ICAO. The callous attitude of the AAI is evident from the fact that no response has been forthcoming nor any corrective action initiated.

Safety first

Contrast this with what the NTSB did, in response to just a single overrun accident in the US — the Southwest Airlines overrun at Midway, Chicago. It came out with a set of recommendations (see Box) that will soon be implemented. The installation of engineered materials arresting system (EMAS ) has prevented serious damage to aircraft structure as well as injuries to passengers in overrun accidents at JFK airport in New York.

Similarly, airlines have incorporated procedures to evaluate the actual landing distance required when landing in rain and the runway conditions are poor. Knowing the safety culture of the aviation system in the US, these recommendations will be implemented very soon.

In spite of so many overrun accidents in wet conditions in India, we are not prepared to modify our procedures. Let us hope that these errors and lapses do not prove costly for human lives.

NTSB’s recommendations

In Safety Recommendations A-08:16-20 published on June 27, 2008, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) says:

Airport design upgrades are to be made proactively, not only as part of other runway improvement projects;

Certificated airports are required to install engineered materials arresting system (EMAS) in each runway safety area available for air carrier use;

Operators must accomplish arrival landing distance assessments before every landing, based on a standardised methodology involving approved performance data on actual arrival conditions, a means of correlating the aeroplane’s braking ability with runway surface conditions using the most conservative interpretation available, and including a minimum safety margin of 15 per cent;

Operators are to include, in their initial, upgrade, transition, and recurrent simulator training for turbojet airplanes, (1) decision-making for rejected landings below 50 feet along with a rapid reduction in visual cues and (2) practice in executing this manoeuvre; and

Operators are to include, in their initial, upgrade, transition, and recurrent simulator training for turbojet airplanes, practice for pilots in accomplishing maximum performance landings on contaminated runways.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66410
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 04 Jul 2008 08:37

excellent feedback from a trench level trooper. I expect the jarnails will roundly ignore it - naturally.
as in ITvity so in all else.

Vipul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3728
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 03:30

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vipul » 04 Jul 2008 17:37

More then anything else Vijay Mallya wants another player with very deep pockets coming in and screwing the other airlines.
He figures with 40% of market in a future consolidated segment (read less competition) he will rule the market in the next upturn.
Its just a matter of time before Go Air is history(The promoters do not have enough cash to manage even the day to day operations).
The airlines to watch out for is Indigo.

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby svinayak » 04 Jul 2008 23:02

Image

vijyeta
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 90
Joined: 01 May 2006 03:10
Location: Olympus Mons

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby vijyeta » 05 Jul 2008 00:42

There is no mention of the fuel situation - apparently that was not a concern. Do all passenger airliners carry substantially more than what is required for the flight?

Rishirishi
BRFite
Posts: 1042
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 02:30

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 05 Jul 2008 01:02

vijyeta wrote:There is no mention of the fuel situation - apparently that was not a concern. Do all passenger airliners carry substantially more than what is required for the flight?


Yes, they are supposed to carry sufficent fuel, to land in alternative location. I suspect that the Indian media is not giving the entire picture. (they polarise things, to make the article more interesting).

80 km is not much. It is about 6 min flying time, at march speed.

Dhanush
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 37
Joined: 15 Jun 2008 23:58

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Dhanush » 05 Jul 2008 01:24

saip wrote:


Could not he have gone for a civilian Dhruv?


The problem is, there is no 'mal' to be made while purchasing desi stuff.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66410
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 05 Jul 2008 09:04

typically these one off low volume contracts are brokered by import-export "trading" firms run
by the family and friends of influential politicians.
a couple yrs later the product is usually grounded and everyone forgets about it. then the next govt gets the itch and buys another different model.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66410
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 05 Jul 2008 09:29

rediff:- its back to the days of GAU-DEL=8000 one way :eek:

Airline operators set to ground 165 flights

July 05, 2008 01:58 IST

In what is the worst slowdown in the Indian aviation industry since 2004, airlines have decided to withdraw 165 flights in the last four weeks, slashing their total capacity by around 10 per cent.

The reduction in capacity, which will come into effect this month, will see the total number of daily flights coming down from around 1,630 to around 1,465.

Low-cost carriers will prune their capacity more than that of full-service carriers. Low-cost carriers are cutting down their total number of flights, which were around 430 last month, by 14 per cent. Full-service carriers, which were flying around 1,200 flights, will bring down the capacity by around 8 per cent.

According to sources, GoAir has decreased its capacity from 1,000 flights to 800 from June to July. Earlier, the carrier had opted out of several cities like Pune, Kochi, Jaipur and Chennai.

JetLite will bring down its total flights from 150 to around 125 soon. The carrier has already cancelled around 15 flights and will scrap around 10 more in the coming months. JetLite has also temporarily cancelled its plans of starting international operation to destinations like Sharjah.

Delhi-based, low-cost carrier SpiceJet has begun the month with 100 flights, down from around 120 flights last month. Low-cost carrier IndiGo, which operated around 120 flights, said it was still reviewing a reduction in its capacity.

Full-service carrier Kingfisher-Deccan has stopped operating around 40 of its 500 flights, especially to short-haul destinations in the southern region. Meanwhile, Jet Airways [Get Quote] has cut down 10 per cent of its total 350 flights a day.

National carrier Air India has stopped operating around 20 out of its total 300 flights.

"The gap between demand and supply was a yawning 20 per cent due to excess capacity in the market. Fortunately, as a result of this slowdown, the gap will come down to 10 per cent. But now, after operations to less profitable cities have been done away with, airlines will have to look at cutting down flights in the metros also. Apart from Delhi and Mumbai, other metros like Chennai and Kolkata might be affected," said an industry expert.

Raju

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Raju » 05 Jul 2008 10:00

>>According to sources, GoAir has decreased its capacity from 1,000 flights to 800 from June to July. Earlier, the carrier had opted out of several cities like Pune, Kochi, Jaipur and Chennai.

it was just one month earlier, that GoAir, Spicejet had started flights to Kochi, a week ago when I looked those flights were no more. :lol:

Indigo is still there but it is going to 'review' its services, so once it does that even they will strike the destination off their list.

back to Jet and IA. 10,000/ticket rip off fares.

John Snow
BRFite
Posts: 1941
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 00:44

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby John Snow » 05 Jul 2008 13:13

saip wrote:


Could not he have gone for a civilian Dhruv?


That means when Rajmata comes into election mode it will be working round the clock also a jet is being purchased, so you got the jet set CM pitcher
:mrgreen:

sanjaychoudhry
BRFite
Posts: 756
Joined: 13 Jul 2007 00:39
Location: La La Land

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby sanjaychoudhry » 05 Jul 2008 13:20

Singha wrote:typically these one off low volume contracts are brokered by import-export "trading" firms run
by the family and friends of influential politicians.
a couple yrs later the product is usually grounded and everyone forgets about it. then the next govt gets the itch and buys another different model.


To avoid this kind of situation, the Government should make it compulsory for all government agencies, public sector units, security forces and state governments to compulsorily go for Dhruv if they are looking to buy a helicopter in the same class. Even if ten dhruvs are purchased over imported ones, it will save at least Rs 300 crores of foriegn exchange and the money will stay within India and not fatten some Goras somewhere. It will also boost our nascent helicopter industry.

Rajesh_MR
BRFite
Posts: 121
Joined: 27 Mar 2003 12:31

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Rajesh_MR » 05 Jul 2008 13:27

[quote>
Indigo is still there but it is going to 'review' its services, so once it does that even they will strike the destination off their [/quote]
Last week I took Indigo from COK to BLR; it was almost empty maybe some 30 odd people. Looks like there will some more consolidation happening soon.

Bade
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7212
Joined: 23 May 2002 11:31
Location: badenberg in US administered part of America

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Bade » 05 Jul 2008 18:36

Jet had like 3 flights daily between Mum-Kochi, which might reduce too. They were busy ripping off the US sector passengers to Kochi for the last many years, now that Qatar has virtually taken over the Kochi market from the US eastern seaboard no more easy pickings for them too.

Raju

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Raju » 05 Jul 2008 18:59

there is only one way out of this.

Kerala Govt should reduce ATF tax to barest minimum or to international levels so that most airlines are tempted to atleast touch COK or TVM on refueling pretext atleast.

Else both the remoteness and high ATF taxes and low-load factor can screw long-distances routes to and from this state.

Bade
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7212
Joined: 23 May 2002 11:31
Location: badenberg in US administered part of America

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Bade » 05 Jul 2008 19:16

Doesn't kerala have one of the lowest in ATF taxes ? I recall even Mallya admitting so on Zee TV a few weeks ago.

Raju

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Raju » 05 Jul 2008 19:22

It had one of the highest, they reduced it recently. So I am not aware of current situation.

Sam CS
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 33
Joined: 02 Dec 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Sam CS » 05 Jul 2008 20:46

SSridhar wrote:Nawabi Class

On Hyderabad airport.


Ain't this interesting that the beacon of Karat-style Leftism (aka Masochism), The Hindu praises the HIAL and tears AAI-controlled airports a new one? May more such enlightenments occur.

I flew HYD-FRA last month. Such a pleasant airport. Went from the entrance to the boarding lounge in 30 minutes or less.

The Good
* Spic and span cleanliness.
* The View of the tarmac from the lounges.
* Space. With 3-5 widebodies departing side by side, the departure area still looked empty. MAA wouldn't have space to stand under the same circumstances.
* Boarding process was very well organized (credit might probably go to Lufthansa). Very little crowding at the gates. They kept announcing the boarding procedure over and over again. The "I am too old to know the difference between Economy and Business class lines" junta were gently "dealt with" - both desis and goras.

The Bad
* Forcing people to enter the departure lounge through the shiny duty free shop.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23489
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 07 Jul 2008 06:11


Eshwar
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 45
Joined: 12 Jun 2002 11:31

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Eshwar » 10 Jul 2008 01:33


SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23489
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 11 Jul 2008 04:26

Land acquisition for Chennai airport expansion to be completed by end of July
Mr Dinesh Kumar, Airport Director, Chennai airport, said that the Rs 1,800-crore project would be completed in 28 months. “We are ready with the tenders,” he said.

The first phase involves extending the secondary runway and building a second terminal. The project is being implemented by the Airports Authority of India.

It is expected that upon completion, the airport would be able to handle 50 per cent more number of flights.

Today, it handles 350 flights a day, Mr Kumar said.

A second runway — parallel to the existing one — will come up in the second phase of the project. Phase-II will need 1,069 acres of land.

Mr Tripathy said there would be no issues in acquiring the required lands.

The Supreme Court on Tuesday dismissed a petition filed by a developer of residential colonies challenging the acquisition of lands for expansion of the airport. In doing this, the apex court upheld a decision of the Madras High Court.

Sam CS
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 33
Joined: 02 Dec 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Sam CS » 11 Jul 2008 18:47

Is the quoted Real Estate Developer the EVP Colony?

So, 50% more (aircraft) capacity, an extra runway, and an additional matchbox GoI building in nearly 2.5 years.

Any news at all of the new airport in Sriperumbudur?

[quote="SSridhar"]Land acquisition for Chennai airport expansion to be completed by end of July
[quote]

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23489
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 11 Jul 2008 19:24

Sam CS wrote:Any news at all of the new airport in Sriperumbudur?


No more news. See here for mock-up models of the new airport

Vipul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3728
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 03:30

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vipul » 11 Jul 2008 19:56

SSridhar, Guru, are you sure about his? These pictures have been on various websites as a proposed model of airport in the UAE. Note the palm trees and aircarft livery (Etihad ?)
Last edited by Vipul on 11 Jul 2008 19:58, edited 1 time in total.

MN Kumar
BRFite
Posts: 393
Joined: 27 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby MN Kumar » 11 Jul 2008 19:57

Sridhar, I dont think those are Chennai Airport pics. These same pics were circulating as the Hyderabad Airport pics couple of yrs back. I think thats a proposed airport somewhere in the middleast.

anupmisra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8279
Joined: 12 Nov 2006 04:16
Location: New York

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby anupmisra » 12 Jul 2008 01:17

How's Air India service and quality (esp. NY-Bombay-NY direct sector) nowadays?

Sam CS
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 33
Joined: 02 Dec 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Sam CS » 12 Jul 2008 03:23

Vipul wrote:SSridhar, Guru, are you sure about his? These pictures have been on various websites as a proposed model of airport in the UAE. Note the palm trees and aircarft livery (Etihad ?)


Emirates. I think this may be the mock-up of the new Dubai International. Emirates do need that much space to park 50+ A380s + 200 other assorted Boeing and Airbus widebodies :shock: .

I really do wish this were MAA. Perhaps the proposed Sriperumbudur one. 1800 Crores and a few hundred acres will not make the current airport this 8) Cool 8) .

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66410
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 12 Jul 2008 05:44

afaik its not dubai but abu dhabi the capital of uae and hq of etihad.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23489
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 12 Jul 2008 12:41

Vipul, Kumar, you may be right. This was the first time I also saw those pics. I didn't apply my mind. Just assumed, as the caption said these were Chennai Airport models. The livery, the desert and that last pix, with a central dome are all giveaways. Thanks for pointing out.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23489
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 12 Jul 2008 13:32

Emirates enters runway without permission
Jet Airways flight 9W441 from Mumbai experienced a missed approach at Bengaluru International Airport (BIA) at around 7 pm on Friday.

The Jet Airways flight which was descending to land at BIA, had to ascend suddenly as another aircraft without Air Traffic Control clearance had blocked the runway in an unauthorised manner.A senior official at BIA's ATC told this website’s newspaper that at around 7 pm, two aircraft - one from Kingfisher Airlines and another from Emirates Airlines - were lined up for departure at almost the same time. The Kingfisher aircraft was given permission to to take off.However, the Emirates pilot mistook the permission and taxied on to the runway. At the same time, the Jet Airways flight from Mumbai was descending. Vigilant ATC officials directed the pilot to cancel the landing as the runway was not free. He also said: ''In Friday's case, the Emirates aircraft was planning to take off from the beginning of the runway while the Kingfisher flight planned it from the intersection of the taxiway with a very short runway. Hence the confusion.''

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3898
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby sanjaykumar » 13 Jul 2008 04:07

He also said: ''In Friday's case, the Emirates aircraft was planning to take off from the beginning of the runway while the Kingfisher flight planned it from the intersection of the taxiway with a very short runway. Hence the confusion.''

This neither makes sense nor is it English. And no the ATC weren't vigilant that they saw the Emirates craft on the runway. If they had been vigilant, he would not have got anywhere near that runway. What happens at these places? Perhaps they need to privatise ATC and airport management in India.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 12595
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 13 Jul 2008 06:01

It does make sense literally - the Emirates flight was to take off from the end of the runway so as to have the entire length, whereas the Kingfisher flight apparently intended to get onto the runway from one of the entry/exit taxiways and start its takeoff run from closer to the middle of the runway (perhaps due to lower load). That means two planes on the runway at once, the former starting from the end, the latter from the middle, while the Jet Airways flight was about to land.

Sanjay M
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4892
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 14:57

Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Sanjay M » 13 Jul 2008 19:29

Here is the A-002, a very cute-looking 2-seater autogyro designed by Sukhoi's subsidiary Irkut:

http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/irkut.php

http://galsaero.al.ru/gyros/a002.htm

http://www.irkut.com/en/gallery/photo/a002/

It's even capable of jump-takeoff.

Since autogyros are simpler to fly and cheaper to operate and maintain than helicopters, as well as having greater fuel-efficiency, I'm wondering if India would be a more opportune market for autogyros?

Comments?


Return to “Technology & Economic Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests