Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

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Deans
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Deans » 18 Jan 2018 10:33

There is more that can be done to decongest Mumbai airport. Capacity limitations in BOM are IMO, the single biggest factor constraining the growth of Indian aviation.
If this has to be tackled on a war footing, Mumbai could stop cargo flights and have them land in Nashik (which has 2 airports that are both under utilized). There will still be cargo coming into the airport from flights carrying passengers, which will suffice for cargo intended for Mumbai. This will free up a min of 25 slots a day, which can be used (for e.g) for red eye flights, or moving an international flight from day to night.

Private jets and helicopters can also be made to operate from Juhu only. That frees up another 10 slots a day - many in peak times.

Also give priority for slots (currently its based on historicity) to aircraft with larger capacity.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 18 Jan 2018 12:51

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 502283.cms
MUMBAI: The Mumbai airport, India's second busiest by passengers and most congested, faced its worst delays in at least five years in 2017.
Nearly a third of the flights were delayed on average during the year, according to data on the airport's website. And December was the worst month in five years, with 44% of departures and 47% of arrivals getting delayed, resulting in delays in 45.5% of the total flights at the airport.

The data showed the airport, run by the GVK Po ..

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/62502283.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 18 Jan 2018 12:52

In 2016-17, the Mumbai airport became the world's busiest single-runway airport by handling 837 flights a day or one in 65 seconds on average, beating London's Gatwick airport that had 757 flights a day

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/62502283.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 19 Jan 2018 05:31

Deans wrote:There is more that can be done to decongest Mumbai airport. Capacity limitations in BOM are IMO, the single biggest factor constraining the growth of Indian aviation.
If this has to be tackled on a war footing, Mumbai could stop cargo flights and have them land in Nashik (which has 2 airports that are both under utilized). There will still be cargo coming into the airport from flights carrying passengers, which will suffice for cargo intended for Mumbai. This will free up a min of 25 slots a day, which can be used (for e.g) for red eye flights, or moving an international flight from day to night.

Private jets and helicopters can also be made to operate from Juhu only. That frees up another 10 slots a day - many in peak times.

Also give priority for slots (currently its based on historicity) to aircraft with larger capacity.

Juhu runways are 3750 and 2400 ft. Helicopters and small propeller aircraft are fine but I doubt one can operate business jets from there. They had a much more ambitious plan of extending the runway into the sea and moving some ATR and 737/A320 flights from CSIA to Juhu. That would have made a significant difference. The Environment Ministry nixed that in 2010. This was when Jairam Ramesh was the grand poobah there and was delaying/stopping every infra/development project he could get his hands on.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Deans » 19 Jan 2018 11:04

Nachiket ji, You are correct. Apart from propeller driven small aircraft, small business jets can land on a 3500 ft runway, However, larger
business jets like the Gulfstream need about 5000 ft, if my memory is right.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Gagan » 23 Jan 2018 08:00

Building Navi Mumbai is the only way to solve Mumbai's airport woes.

Such is the hold of the slum voter bank on the politicians, that even the new terminal's east arm was left unfinished as land could not be acquired by vacating the slum across the Nalah.

They had better move in on the Navi Mumbai land, before the Land Mafia does

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby putnanja » 24 Jan 2018 13:30

From Tarmak007's FB post:

#BreakingNews

#Saras PT1N maiden flight successful. The flight was piloted by ASTE Test Pilots Wg Cdr B Panicker and U P Singh (rank not known). Also on board was FTE Bhat (rank not known). It flew for 35 minutes. Details awaited.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 24 Jan 2018 15:12

^^

Mumbai: BMC plans to cut across Juhu airport for Andheri Santacruz-Link Road

Image

Over three years and Rs 7.9 crore later, this is the genius plan the BMC has come up with to improve connectivity in the city - they want to build two roads right across the Juhu airport's operational area. This is what has been proposed in the civic body's comprehensive mobility plan (CMP), but even civic officials admit it's not the most practical plan. Fortunately, they are now considering building an underpass below the airport to connect Santacruz with Andheri.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby JTull » 24 Jan 2018 16:04

The underpass is an attractive solution. Delhi Airport already has that, but perhaps not as long as would be needed in Mumbai. OTOH I'm somewhat sceptical about the the practicalities of these in Mumbai during the rainy season.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby JayS » 24 Jan 2018 18:16

Saras flew today...

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Zynda » 24 Jan 2018 18:44

Here is a pic of the same from Ananthakrishna's Twitter feed.

Image

Whats the grid of raised dots on the tail + rudder? Doesn't seem like strain gauges but it could be!

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Zynda » 24 Jan 2018 18:45

More from Dr. Harsh Vardhan's twitter feed...
I congratulate CSIR-National Aerospace Lab scientists on the maiden flight of 14 seater SARAS PT1N. Designed & developed by CSIR-NAL, it flew for about 30 minutes this morning at a maximum height of 8500 ft at a speed of 145 knots. All the system parameters are found normal.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Zynda » 24 Jan 2018 18:49

Also whats the V-shaped structures below the vertical tail? I don't think they are any sort of control surfaces...may be some kind of rear canard like thingy? Those were there on the original Saras as well...never noticed them till now!

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 24 Jan 2018 19:06

Manish_P wrote:^^

Mumbai: BMC plans to cut across Juhu airport for Andheri Santacruz-Link Road

Image

Over three years and Rs 7.9 crore later, this is the genius plan the BMC has come up with to improve connectivity in the city - they want to build two roads right across the Juhu airport's operational area. This is what has been proposed in the civic body's comprehensive mobility plan (CMP), but even civic officials admit it's not the most practical plan. Fortunately, they are now considering building an underpass below the airport to connect Santacruz with Andheri.


They can easily build a tunnel underneath.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 24 Jan 2018 19:24

Zynda wrote:Also whats the V-shaped structures below the vertical tail? I don't think they are any sort of control surfaces...may be some kind of rear canard like thingy? Those were there on the original Saras as well...never noticed them till now!


the F-16 has them too.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby JayS » 24 Jan 2018 20:06

Zynda wrote:Also whats the V-shaped structures below the vertical tail? I don't think they are any sort of control surfaces...may be some kind of rear canard like thingy? Those were there on the original Saras as well...never noticed them till now!


Ventral fins for directional stability I think. I also never notices but they are very much there.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Zynda » 24 Jan 2018 22:20

Thx Jay.

One more beautiful shot of the plane landing back from its sortie...courtesy of Tamrak007.

Image

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chola » 24 Jan 2018 22:31

Zynda wrote:Thx Jay.

One more beautiful shot of the plane landing back from its sortie...courtesy of Tamrak007.

Image



Wonderful! Kudos to the team of youngsters who kept the dream alive after 9 long years.

Persistence, perseverance, perfection.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Prithwiraj » 24 Jan 2018 22:46

I know it is kind of early but will they be planning to integrate winglets as well?

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 25 Jan 2018 00:33

JayS wrote:
Zynda wrote:Also whats the V-shaped structures below the vertical tail? I don't think they are any sort of control surfaces...may be some kind of rear canard like thingy? Those were there on the original Saras as well...never noticed them till now!


Ventral fins for directional stability I think. I also never notices but they are very much there.


Sometimes also called after body strakes, It improves longitudinal stability, IIRC.

A large radome under the belly would call for such a mod. The CG and IN dorniers have them.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 25 Jan 2018 00:38

Question from a noob who has not followed this topic - is the current prototype the same dimensions as the yellow one that crashed ? This one looks longer and sleeker.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby JayS » 28 Jan 2018 12:30

chetak wrote:
JayS wrote:
Ventral fins for directional stability I think. I also never notices but they are very much there.


Sometimes also called after body strakes, It improves longitudinal stability, IIRC.

A large radome under the belly would call for such a mod. The CG and IN dorniers have them.


Yes, can be called body strakes or ventral strakes as well. But for direction stability only. It cannot affect longitudinal stability since it would not be producing any significant force in the longitudinal plane.

Many small aircraft have these strakes. Two purposes - Directional stability and reduction in fuselage separation at the rear due to aggressive angle there. I would say Saras has them more for directional stability and flow separation as secondary purpose, from the look of it (higher aspect ratio and very aft position). Seems small GA aircrafts have them as aftermarket performance enhancer upgrades. Quite a lot of fighters have them solely for directional stability purpose. Some links I found:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strake_(aeronautics)

http://www.boldmethod.com/blog/article/ ... epic/dabs/

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/ques ... al-strakes

http://www.blackhawk.aero/performance-u ... y-strakes/

http://www.aircraftstc.com/10-products/ ... nformation

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby jaysimha » 01 Feb 2018 12:00

http://www.mpaviation.nic.in/Response%20to%20Queries%20on%20RFP%2019012018Document.pdf

RESPONSE TO QUERIES ON THE TENDER DOCUMENT FOR LEASING OF AIRFIELDS OF GOVERNMENT OF MADHYA PRADESH
DURING PRE-BID CONFERENCE HELD ON 12TH JANUARY 2018 AT M.P BHAWAN, NEW DELHI – 110 021

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby JayS » 04 Feb 2018 13:48

From this budget:
Air Transport
The Budget proposes to expand the airport capacity more than five times to handle a
billion trips a year under a new initiative - NABH Nirman. Under the Regional connectivity
scheme of UDAN (Ude Desh ka Aam Nagrik) initiated by the Government last year, 56 unserved
airports and 31 unserved helipads would be connected.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 20 Feb 2018 15:35

Zynda wrote:^^Thanks for providing the details. Gotta admit his feat is amazing...refreshing. Dunno if its gonna see the light of the day but at least kudos to his efforts.


Follow-up:

Maharashtra government inks Rs 35,000 crore pact with a pilot to build aircraft

The dream of a commercial pilot to set up an aircraft manufacturing company is set to take wings with the Maharashtra government on Tuesday signing a Rs 35,000 crore pact with him to build aircraft. Maharashtra Chief Minister Devendra Fadnavis was present when the MoU, which envisages Rs 35,000 investment in the project, was signed at the "Magnetic Maharashtra" global investors summit in suburban Bandra.

The MoU, between Amol Yadav and MIDC, will lead to generation of around 10,000 jobs in the project, which will be spread over 157 acre land in Palghar district.


"I have to make planes. I have demonstrated the capabilities. Fadnavis wants the first plane making factory of the country to be in Maharashtra. The 157-acre plot was identified in Palghar. The MIDC will provide us land and support facilities like roads," Yadav told PTI.

"My responsibility is to build the plane and create the factory which will be producing more, and also to look after factories to be set up henceforth. This will be an aerospace hub to make planes," he said.

Maharashtra government will help in getting the required funds, Yadav said. "The government expects Rs 35,000 crore investment for not my company alone, but also for the ancillaries which will be a part of the hub," he said.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chola » 20 Feb 2018 20:14

^^^ Perhaps we will look back in two decades and see this as a turning point. Bravo to Mister Yadav. We need many more like him!

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 27 Feb 2018 05:32

'Make in India' at the heart of Airbus India strategy: Official
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 808871.cms

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 12 Mar 2018 17:03

MUMBAI: A mid-air engine failure forced an IndiGo flight bound for Lucknow to return to Ahmedabad, where it made an emergency landing this morning, an official said.

The Airbus A320 Neo plane, which had 186 passengers on board, landed safely, Ahmedabad Airport director Manoj Gangal said.

The aircraft, powered by Pratt & Whitney Neo engines, returned to Ahmedabad after being airborne for over 40 minutes, he said.

"At around 9.38 am...the pilot of the aircraft reported failure of the second engine and requested to return the flight to the Ahmedabad airport," Mr Gangal said.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 12 Mar 2018 17:03

same old same old geared turbofan...

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby JayS » 12 Mar 2018 20:40

Recently even in Europe planes with certain of these engines were grounded/were on under restriction. These were the engines which were modified in Dec last year or so and PW had claimed they solved previous problems. I am not sure if the grounding in India is due to exact same issue that was in Europe or different one. Need to check in details.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby arvin » 12 Mar 2018 21:03

Looks like there are two issues with these engines - HPC seal and combustor issues. Both are in the 'core'. Increase in feul effeciency led to trade off in something else??

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby JayS » 12 Mar 2018 22:30

WINGS INDIA 2018 - INAUGURATION OF NAL'S RTA MOCKUP COCKPIT


https://www.nal.res.in/cms/en/latestupdate?ar_id=97

We might see revival of RTA project too..??

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 12 Mar 2018 23:17


chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 13 Mar 2018 10:24

Horrifying details from Nepal's Kathmandu airport crash emerge: 'Pilot didn't obey ATC, landed at wrong time'



Horrifying details from Nepal's Kathmandu airport crash emerge: 'Pilot didn't obey ATC, landed at wrong time'

World Birendra KM and Saurabh Sharma Mar 13, 2018

Kathmandu: The pilot of the US-Bangla Airlines plane that crashed at the Tribhuvan International Airport in Nepal on Monday did not obey orders from the air traffic control (ATC), the airport authority said. As many as 49 of the 71 people on board died, according to latest reports.


Raj Kumar Chhetri, general manager at Tribhuvan International Airport, said the ATC, which monitors and regulates the traffic at the airport, asked pilot of the aircraft to await landing. The flight originated from Dhaka.

“The pilot did not obey orders given by ATC and landed at wrong time. Also, the plane was to land from the southern side of the runway, but the pilot tried landing from the northern side,” Chhetri told Firstpost.

Manoj Nepune, the Kathmandu Police spokesperson confirmed over the phone that 14 people among the dead were of Nepalese nationality. They'd gone to Dhaka for training from different Nepal travel agencies.

An airport official confirmed that among the 67 flyers, 32 were Bangladeshis, 33 were Nepalese, one each from China and Maldives, apart from four crew members.

PS Thakur, spokesperson of Tribhuvan International Airport, said the aircraft circled the airport twice before suddenly descending on the runway without informing the ATC.

Meanwhile, Nepal prime minister KP Sharma Oli reached the airport to take stock of the situation and assured all possible help to victims of the crash.

The injured were taken to Norvic Hospital in Thapathali and to Army Hospital in Kathmandu, Chettri added.

Birendra KM is a Kathmandu-based journalist and Saurabh Sharma is a Lucknow-based journalist. Both are members of 101reporters.com, a pan-India network of grassroot reporters


The quote below is from another internet source.

Looks like that there was lots of confusion in the cockpit.


ATC Radio Transcript Kathmandu-Tower:

(Note: this transcript is unofficial and can contain inadequate data)

BS211(female voice): „Good day, BanglaStar211 final runway 02.“
KTM-Tower: „BanglaStar211, tower. Wind 230 degrees eight knots, tailwind component seven knots, continue approach.“
BS211(female voice): „Continue approach BanglaStar 211.“
..
KTM-Tower: „BanglaStar211, wind 220 degrees seven knots, tailwind component six knots, runway 02 you’re cleared to land.“
BS211(female voice): „Cleared to land, BanglaStar 211.“
..
KTM-Tower: „BanglaStar211, tower?“
BS211(female voice): „Go ahead, sir.“
BS211(male voice): „Go ahead, mam‘.“
KTM-Tower: „BanglaStar211, you were given a landing clearance to runway 02.“
BS211(male voice): „Affirmative, mam.“
KTM-Tower: „You are going towards runway 20.“
BS211(male voice): „..(garbled transmission)..to runway 02.“
KTM-Tower (different voice): „…211, runway 20, cleared to land.“
BS211(male voice): „..cleared to land..(unintelligible).“
..
KTM-Tower (different voice): „BanglaStar211, Kathmandu Tower“
BS211(male voice): „Go ahead“
KTM-Tower (different voice): „BanglaStar211, request your intentions.“
BS211(male voice): „..(unintelligible)..“
KTM-Tower (different voice): “ BanglaStar211, that would be VFR.“
BS211(male voice): „Affirmative“
KTM-Tower (different voice): “ 211 join a ri…ehm..right downwind to runway 20.“
BS211(male voice): „Copied.“
KTM-Tower (different voice): “ …right downwind runway 02..“
..
Tower clears another aircraft (Buddha282) to land on runway 02.
..
KTM-Tower: „And BanglaStar 211, traffic at final eh..runway 02 at two miles, report sighting.“
BS211(male voice): „Copied, Sir. We’ll be at (..) runway 02.“
KTM-Tower: „Confirm you’re tracking towards runway 20 ?“
BS211(male voice): „Affirmative.“
KTM-Tower: „Right..left, right downwind runway 02, I say again Bangla 212 traffic is on final runway 02 landing on runway 02.“
BS211(male voice): „Copied Sir“
..
Tower confirmed landing clearance for the other aircraft (Buddha282) to land on runway 02.
..
KTM-Tower: „211 I say it again, do not proceed towards runway 20. Cleared to hold at your current position.“
BS211(male voice): „Okay, we’re making an orbit to the right, copied ?“
BS211(male voice): „Tower, 211, making a right holding, right holding for runway 02.“
KTM-Tower: „Okay that’s good but do not land. Traffic is on short final runway 02.“
BS211(male voice): „We have that, Sir copied. (unintelligible) we’re cleared to land“
..
KTM-Tower: „..BanglaStar211, runway..eh..cleared to land. Runway is vacated, either runway 02 or 20 ?“
BS211(male voice): „Yes Sir, we like to land on 20.“
KTM-Tower: „Okay runway 20, cleared to land. Wind is 270 degrees, six knots.“
BS211(male voice): „260 copied, cleared to land.“
KTM-Tower: „BanglaStar211, confirm you have the runway in sight?“
BS211(male voice): „Negative, Sir.“
KTM-Tower: „BanglaStar211, turn right and ah..you have the runway, confirm you have the runway not in sight, yet ?“
BS211(male voice): „Affirmative, we have (..) runway in sight. Requesting clear to land, Sir.“
KTM-Tower: „And BanglaStar211, cleared to land.“
BS211(male voice): „Cleared to land runway 02, BanglaStar212.“
KTM-Tower: „Roger, runway 02, cleared to land, BanglaStar211.“
..
BS211(male voice): „..sir, are we cleared to land ?“
KTM-Tower: „BanglaStar211, I say again..turn… (yelling in background).“
..
(end of BS211 transmissions)

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby deejay » 13 Mar 2018 10:54

What was happening in that cockpit????? If the RT readback is accurate that was the most unprofessional multicrew environment I have known.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 13 Mar 2018 11:07

deejay wrote:What was happening in that cockpit????? If the RT readback is accurate that was the most unprofessional multicrew environment I have known.


There seems to be some sort of incapacitation in the in the cockpit. There is a clear loss of situational awareness

hypoxia??

Anyway, the male pilot is among those alive and recovering.

It looks like he was the one who was more affected by whatever.

in the meanwhile, the beedis have already blamed the kathmandu ATC and have completely absolved their pilot of all blame.

To them, its a clear case of the bad nepali runway hitting their innocent aircraft.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby JayS » 13 Mar 2018 11:31

Singha wrote:https://www.news18.com/news/india/hundreds-of-passengers-stranded-after-dgca-grounds-11-indigo-goair-planes-1687057.html?ref=hp_top_pos_6

all neos grounded by dgca


Not all Saar. Only those which have engines with certain serial number (not clear from news but I suppose only those NEOs which have both engines from the grounded engines' lot).

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 15 Mar 2018 19:49

IBNlive

Mumbai: Passengers are likely to face harrowing times with IndiGo and GoAir deciding to cancel more than 600 flights this month, of which 480 are by IndiGo alone, following grounding of 11 A320 neo planes with faulty Pratt & Whitney (P&W) engines.

The cancellations by the two budget carriers, which operate more than 1,200 flights daily on average, may significantly disrupt the summer schedule. There was no immediate clarity about the way possible compensation and alternative choices would be made available to the passengers already having tickets.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 15 Mar 2018 19:49

and peak summer travel will start in april and may once the schools close .... tough

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 16 Mar 2018 05:17

Wow that ATC transcript is utter confusion. Both the pilots and the ATC seem to be switching between 02 and 20 several times.


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