Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

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JayS
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby JayS » 19 Mar 2018 11:38

JayS wrote:
Singha wrote:https://www.news18.com/news/india/hundreds-of-passengers-stranded-after-dgca-grounds-11-indigo-goair-planes-1687057.html?ref=hp_top_pos_6

all neos grounded by dgca


Not all Saar. Only those which have engines with certain serial number (not clear from news but I suppose only those NEOs which have both engines from the grounded engines' lot).


From various articles what I gathered is, there are total 45 engines delivered in service (lets call it faulty lot), in Europe and in India. While in Europe, the EASA grounded only those jets which has both engines from the faulty lot, and allowed aircrafts with one faulty engine, DGCA grounded all the jets having faulty engines, having one or both engines from faulty lot. So DGCA was more conservative than EASA in this matter.

Some 55 engines were delivered to Airbus for aircrafts under assembly. Those are being repaired first. The already in service faulty lot will not be taken up for repair until April end it seems. This year alone PW loss on this engine program is $1.2B. Out of which this recent issue contributes $50M.

The exact issue is with HPC aft knife edge seal. There was some problem with it which required frequent inspections. PW came up with modification in Dec 2017, which aggravated the issue - it would not shut down the engine if the issue is sensed. So they are reverting back to old config. So the original problem is yet to be solved. But better inspection than in air shut down.

On a side note, Just the other day I saw a person (an Aerospace engineer at that) who was doing some lateral thinking - "This is happening in Indian only rights..? One engine failure every week right?? (well he is blissfully unaware of the whole story) perhaps there is something that Indian airliners doing wrong (after all they are Indian companies, right? and how can goras be at fault..?). Why the airlines did not take out all faulty engines out of service..? why wait until regulatory directive..?" Its so disgusting to see SDREs being so condescending to their own brethren. aak thoo on such Indians.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 19 Mar 2018 14:17

>> better inspection than in air shut down

worst case what if 1 engine shuts down during takeoff run ? will need some quick actions to save people then.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby JayS » 19 Mar 2018 14:31

Singha wrote:>> better inspection than in air shut down

worst case what if 1 engine shuts down during takeoff run ? will need some quick actions to save people then.


There is limit defined for Aborting during TO for any cause (Speed V1, mainly defined by stopping distance required, i.e. remaining runway length). If engine failure detected before this point, TO can be aborted. If the aircraft goes beyond this limit, the aircraft should be able to TO with one engine (by regulation/design), take a turn, dump fuel if needed and land back.

If both engines fail, aircraft has to be stopped from TO no matter what, taking risk of runway overshoot/crash.

I think we have seen at least two engine failure during TO in India related to A320NEO. IIRC, one was well in time so TO was easily aborted, in another the aircraft took off with stopped engine and landed back.

All this happen in split seconds, so yes, very quick action is required. Wiki tells me, there is RTO mode on breaks which is activated before TO roll started. In case of movement of thrust lever from max thrust to idle or reverse thrust. Full breaks applied automatically in such situation.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 19 Mar 2018 15:19

actually one time we were stuck in las vegas on the ground for a couple hours due to engine problems. it was late like 10pm, kids were cranky and a bunch of young gora lads got all worked up and started passing catty comments to the air hostesses, mobbing them in the front galley in a intimidatory manner. ... those were kinder gentler pre 911 days with no TSA/marshals/swat

a while later the pilot came on the PA and sternly announced that in his 30 years of flying he had never had a engine shut during takeoff - by following the precautions and rules, he was not about to start now and anyone not agreeing with his philosophy could deplane and leave.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby JayS » 19 Mar 2018 16:27

Singha wrote: in his 30 years of flying he had never had a engine shut during takeoff - by following the precautions and rules.

Quite a telling statement. Its very important to follow rules and regulations with utmost care. A casual look at root cause analysis of most of the incidents show that its a chain of relatively small errors (which in isolation might have been totally harmless) which build up to cause catastrophe eventually. By design the components are built with a lot of conservatism, they even consider built up of multiple bad situations, but not all can be considered/imagined during design. Even if it was possible, it would leave the design too bulky and handicapped. The SOPs, procedures are precisely to avoid such errors or oversights, which were not considered/foreseen. But you can't avoid eventuality. As they say, statistics catches up some day.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 19 Mar 2018 16:33

JayS wrote:
Singha wrote:>> better inspection than in air shut down

worst case what if 1 engine shuts down during takeoff run ? will need some quick actions to save people then.


There is limit defined for Aborting during TO for any cause (Speed V1, mainly defined by stopping distance required, i.e. remaining runway length). If engine failure detected before this point, TO can be aborted. If the aircraft goes beyond this limit, the aircraft should be able to TO with one engine (by regulation/design), take a turn, dump fuel if needed and land back.

If both engines fail, aircraft has to be stopped from TO no matter what, taking risk of runway overshoot/crash.

I think we have seen at least two engine failure during TO in India related to A320NEO. IIRC, one was well in time so TO was easily aborted, in another the aircraft took off with stopped engine and landed back.

All this happen in split seconds, so yes, very quick action is required. Wiki tells me, there is RTO mode on breaks which is activated before TO roll started. In case of movement of thrust lever from max thrust to idle or reverse thrust. Full breaks applied automatically in such situation.


In all cases of a RTO, there are elaborate mandatory checks to be done before the aircraft is cleared to operate again.

The crew would use everything available like spoilers, airbrakes and also reverse thrust (on the operating engine) etc to try and stop.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby arvin » 19 Mar 2018 17:23

The most famous case of take off abort involved ex president pratibha patil heli fleet in 2009. One of the helicopter landed without permission on runway of mumbai airport just after an Air india plane had started its TO run. Plane pilot spotted it and aborted the run. Quick action by pilot saved a massive disaster.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby pravula » 20 Mar 2018 07:18

JayS wrote:
Singha wrote: in his 30 years of flying he had never had a engine shut during takeoff - by following the precautions and rules.

Quite a telling statement. Its very important to follow rules and regulations with utmost care. A casual look at root cause analysis of most of the incidents show that its a chain of relatively small errors (which in isolation might have been totally harmless) which build up to cause catastrophe eventually. By design the components are built with a lot of conservatism, they even consider built up of multiple bad situations, but not all can be considered/imagined during design. Even if it was possible, it would leave the design too bulky and handicapped. The SOPs, procedures are precisely to avoid such errors or oversights, which were not considered/foreseen. But you can't avoid eventuality. As they say, statistics catches up some day.


There is a wonderful book by Atul Gawande - The Checklist Manifesto: How to Get Things Right.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby jaysimha » 23 Mar 2018 10:11

https://www.nal.res.in/cms/medias/latest_update/big/48/harshvardhanonsaras22318.png

Dr.Harsh Vardhan, Minister for Science and Technology, New Delhi,
Saras is about to connect India on its own wings-linking smaller towns for an aviation market set to boom

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby jaysimha » 23 Mar 2018 10:51

OFFICE OF DIRECTOR GENERAL OF CIVIL AVIATION
PROCEDURES AND REQUIREMENTS FOR LICENSING OF WATER AERODROME

http://www.dgca.nic.in/misc/draft%20cars/D4F-F4(Draft_March2018).pdf

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby JayS » 23 Mar 2018 12:09

jaysimha wrote:https://www.nal.res.in/cms/medias/latest_update/big/48/harshvardhanonsaras22318.png

Dr.Harsh Vardhan, Minister for Science and Technology, New Delhi,
Saras is about to connect India on its own wings-linking smaller towns for an aviation market set to boom


A private company consortium should be chosen and given responsibility to manufacture Saras. The earlier the better. GOI should find ways to promote Saras' sell to Indian Airlines.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 24 Mar 2018 17:37

JayS wrote:
jaysimha wrote:https://www.nal.res.in/cms/medias/latest_update/big/48/harshvardhanonsaras22318.png

Dr.Harsh Vardhan, Minister for Science and Technology, New Delhi,
Saras is about to connect India on its own wings-linking smaller towns for an aviation market set to boom


A private company consortium should be chosen and given responsibility to manufacture Saras. The earlier the better. GOI should find ways to promote Saras' sell to Indian Airlines.


Better if such concerned players get together and form a consortium on their own.

Subject to quality and performance standards, a guaranteed minimum purchase order can be negotiated and placed, contingent upon the consortium meeting delivery schedules and customer support commitments.

All cost overruns to suppliers account.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Neshant » 26 Mar 2018 01:52

Image

China is building up it's aviation R&D by getting local airliners to buy their C919 aircraft (indigineously built 167 seat regional airliner). Not quite capitalism but it sure is giving their indigineous aerospace industry and economy a big boost financially and technologically. It's a Boeing 737 and Airbus 320 competitor. Both companies have rapidly scaled down their selling prices for their planes as within a short while, China won't be dependent on them anymore.

Their next target is to build the C929 which will be a Boeing 777 competitor.

India is way behind but it's not too late to catch up.

Unlike the IAF which until recently was an import-raj utterly destroying any domestic aerospace R&D base, India needs to adopt a similar model of adoption as the C919 with respect to Saras. This is the only way to kickstart the domestic aerospace R&D base.

Do what the Chinese are doing with the C919 for Saras in terms of getting it in use.

Also start thinking of exporting this plane in various forms. Find out what it will take IN DETAIL to get this plane export approved in western markets.

Start this process NOW as the plane is under development because the govt agencies move at a glacial pace.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Mahindra » 28 Mar 2018 21:20

Certification of civil aircraft has been a big issue for similar attempts by the Russians and Japanese. The Chinese have long sought help from the FAA and EASA for certification of the C919, which has been a problem for non-western airframers. The C919 has avionics and engines from western suppliers (e.g: GE, Honeywell etc), and they have leaned on them to help with certification issues. Typically Boeing and Airbus dedicate a fleet of airplanes for up to a year, and spend about $1 billion just for the certification of an all new aircraft such as the 787. Cert requirements are not just in FAR 25 and related docs but also the literally thousands of emails, memorandums, appendixes, phone calls, tests and test reports which become part of the Type Cert a new airplane design receives. Certification rigor, among many other things is a key reason for the reliability of todays commercial aircraft. I am not sure how extensive the C919 cert effort has been. I think inspite of the help they got from the west, it will be a while before the FAA or the EASA will provide reciprocal certification for the C919, if ever. It may depend on how well the airplane performs in service. All it takes is one crash to set it back for years. In the meanwhile, I would avoid flying in these things if you happen to be in China or anywhere these are flying. Check the equipment on the flight route before buying a ticket.

As for the Saras, it is good news GoI is taking the initiative to productionize the design and them in the air. I don't know how rigorous the cert process for this design has been, but hope HAL/NAL have learned from other programs.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby arun » 29 Mar 2018 08:43

X posted from the Indo-Israel: News and Discussion thread.

Israeli carrier El Al seems hellbent on getting the Government of Israel to cut off her nose to spite her face :roll: .

I look forward to the Israeli Supreme Court dismissing El Al’s case.:

El Al Sues Israel After Air India Flies Through Saudi Airspace

As background an earlier article from Israels Globes:

Air India makes history flying to Israel over Saudi Arabia

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Neshant » 29 Mar 2018 11:35

An enormous market of opportunity... and we don't make a single 100+ seater passenger plane of our own design.
Its all foreign designed and mostly foreign assembled with Indians perhaps adding a screw turn or two here and there in assembly.
Govt has done a very poor job of developing domestic aerospace R&D.

---------------

India ‘to need 1,750 new jets over 20 years’
TOULOUSE, France, 18 days ago

India will require 1,750 new passenger and cargo aircraft over the next 20 years to meet an exponential rise in both passenger and freight traffic, according to Airbus’ latest India Market Forecast.

To help meet this growth, India will need 1,320 new single-aisle aircraft and 430 widebody aircraft valued at $255 billion.

While much of the air traffic growth is expected to be driven by the fast expanding economy, rising wealth and urbanisation, ambitious government-backed regional connectivity programmes are also set to enhance demand for air travel. By 2036, Indians will each make four times as many flights as today. As a result, traffic serving the Indian market is forecast to grow 8.1 per cent per year over the next 20 years, almost twice as fast as the world average of 4.4 per cent.

Domestic Indian traffic is expected to grow five-and-half times over the next 20 years (2017-2036) reaching the same level as U.S. domestic traffic today, making it one of the world’s fastest growing markets, according to Airbus’ latest India Market Forecast for the period.

http://www.tradearabia.com/news/TTN_337728.html

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Neshant » 29 Mar 2018 11:44

Mahindra wrote:Certification of civil aircraft has been a big issue for similar attempts by the Russians and Japanese. The Chinese have long sought help from the FAA and EASA for certification of the C919, which has been a problem for non-western airframers. The C919 has avionics and engines from western suppliers (e.g: GE, Honeywell etc), and they have leaned on them to help with certification issues. Typically Boeing and Airbus dedicate a fleet of airplanes for up to a year, and spend about $1 billion just for the certification of an all new aircraft such as the 787. Cert requirements are not just in FAR 25 and related docs but also the literally thousands of emails, memorandums, appendixes, phone calls, tests and test reports which become part of the Type Cert a new airplane design receives. Certification rigor, among many other things is a key reason for the reliability of todays commercial aircraft. I am not sure how extensive the C919 cert effort has been.


They have hopes of selling the plane in the US/Europe - so they will seek FAA approval at some point.
Although FAA could go through a total re-inspection of the entire plane as part of this approval process.
Still, they are miles ahead of India in the field of passenger airplane development.

They will fulfill much of their domestic need with this plane and get far lower pricing from Boeing, Airbus, Embraer, Bombardier..etc since they are no longer beholden to those companies - unlike India.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby arun » 04 Apr 2018 17:10

X Posted from the Terroristan thread.

Article from UK Newspaper Financial Times titled “Air travel in Pakistan is a journey to the 1950s : Flying in the country is a pleasure compared with India, but there are downsides”.

Surely an advantage of being a leading global exporter of Mohammadden Terrorists would have the payoff of needing shorter security queues at Airports?

Air travel in Pakistan is a journey to the 1950s
Flying in the country is a pleasure compared with India, but there are downsides

KIRAN STACEY

A few minutes after I take my seat at gate 15 of the domestic terminal in Lahore airport — and only about 20 minutes since I entered the building — a man comes over with a menu in his hand.

“Tea, coffee, sir?” he asks. “Perhaps a cold drink?”

On this occasion I decline, but in the past I have accepted, and been grateful to receive my tea in a china cup and saucer, to be paid for “in your own time, sir”.

Flying in Pakistan is unlike anywhere else I have been — and the polar opposite to flying in India, where I live. Departing from any of the three major Pakistani cities is the closest a modern traveller is likely to get to experiencing what flying was like in the 1950s.

Checking in is effortless and there are no queues at security. At Islamabad airport, you do not even have to go to your gate: you can sit in the café until your flight is called and then leave via a downstairs door that takes you straight on to the tarmac and a waiting minibus.

Just hours earlier, I had suffered the regular indignity of catching a flight from Delhi airport. It took 20 minutes of disorganised queueing to check in, and another 30 to get through security. Getting on the aeroplane, as usual, reminded me of warfare at the Sino-Indian border, where troops are unarmed and so fight by jostling each other using only their torsos.

But while flying in Pakistan is a joy for those used to Indian airports, it is not necessarily a good sign for the country’s development in comparison with its larger neighbour.

The reason the experience is so civilised becomes clear to me when on board the small propeller aeroplane, where my colleague realises he knows the person next to him — a prominent environmental activist and the wife of a senior diplomat. Unlike in India, catching a flight in Pakistan remains the preserve of a small and wealthy elite.

In 2016-17, 7.2m tickets were sold for domestic flights in Pakistan — equivalent to about 3 per cent of the population. In India, that figure was 108m, equivalent to 8 per cent of the population. According to Air Asia India, the low-cost carrier which is part of the group owned by the Malaysian entrepreneur Tony Fernandes, 26 per cent of their customers are first-time flyers.

Indians have better access to air travel in part because they are richer, but also because, for them, air travel is much cheaper. A highly competitive domestic aviation market means that a passenger looking to fly from Delhi to Mumbai on July 1 this year, for example, can pay as little as $35. In Pakistan, someone wanting to do the roughly equivalent trip from Islamabad to Karachi will probably have to fly with the government-controlled Pakistan International Airlines and pay at least $100 to do so.

While both countries allowed private airlines to set up from the early 1990s, companies have had a more difficult time in Pakistan.

“Since 2003, Indian low-cost carriers have genuinely democratised airline travel,” says Kapil Kaul, chief executive of the Centre for Asia-Pacific Aviation, an industry consultancy.

“With close to 70 per cent market share, these companies have structurally changed aviation in India. Pakistan, on the other hand, is yet to realise the massive social and economic potential of bringing air travel to the masses.”

The rapid expansion in the number of Indians able to fly has caused difficulties for both the companies and the travellers themselves. Aviation executives say first-time flyers tend to treat air travel as they do bus travel, where timings are uncertain and passengers who do not board quickly can be left behind. Air Asia India is even making a video to try to educate new customers on the basics of air travel, such as how to clear security and when to turn up at the terminal.

As I stand to gather my belongings from the overhead bin and wait in an orderly queue to disembark at Islamabad, I am grateful not to have a fellow passenger pushing past me to get to the door more quickly.

But I also know that while this is good news for me and the 60 or so other people who have been able to afford this flight, it means that millions of others have been denied the opportunity.


UK Financial Times:

Clicky

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 10 Apr 2018 17:43

as per latest reports IGI delhi is probably the fastest growing of the 50 mil + airports at around 15% annually

it will cross a bunch of very famous names within next 5 years
https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/ ... index.html
The 22nd busiest passenger airport in 2016, Delhi's Indira Gandhi International Airport jumped into 16th position in 2017. Total passenger traffic grew by 14.1%.
"India is poised to be one of the largest aviation markets in the world in the years to come," ACI claims in its report, noting that Calcutta, Hyderabad, Bangalore and Madras all saw growth of between 10% and 27%.
The world's busiest airports 2017
1. Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (Georgia) -- 104 million passengers
2. Beijing Capital International Airport (China) -- 96 million
3. Dubai International Airport (United Arab Emirates) -- 88 million
4. Tokyo Haneda International Airport (Japan) -- 85 million
5. Los Angeles International Airport (California) -- 84.6 million
6. Chicago's O'Hare International Airport (Illinois) -- 80 million
7. London Heathrow Airport (United Kingdom) -- 78 million
8. Hong Kong International Airport (China) -- 73 million
9. Shanghai Pudong International Airport (China) -- 70 million
10. Aéroport de Paris-Charles de Gaulle (France) -- 69 million
11. Amsterdam Airport Schiphol (Netherlands) -- 68.5 million
12. Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport (Texas) -- 67 million
13. Guangzhou Bai Yun International Airport (China) -- 66 million
14. Frankfurt Am Main Airport (Germany) -- 64.5 million
15. Atatürk International Airport (Turkey) -- 64 million
16. Indira Gandhi International Airport (India) -- 63.5 million

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 10 Apr 2018 17:45

with more gulf traffic and the main hub of Jet and Goair, and the other end of the fat pipe to delhi, mumbai if it had the capacity could be matching delhi, but instead a 6 hr repair job on its 1 runway led to 300 flight cancels this week. mumbai also has more 1-hop flights to western and central india vs delhi - areas north of delhi have few major airports.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 10 Apr 2018 17:46

web hyperscale is the only scale.

100 mil each for mum and del
50 mil each for chennai, blr and hyd
30 mil for ccu & kochi
n * 10-20 mil for the rest

its time to roll.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vips » 10 Apr 2018 18:43

Singha wrote:with more gulf traffic and the main hub of Jet and Goair, and the other end of the fat pipe to delhi, mumbai if it had the capacity could be matching delhi, but instead a 6 hr repair job on its 1 runway led to 300 flight cancels this week. mumbai also has more 1-hop flights to western and central india vs delhi - areas north of delhi have few major airports.


Mumbai airport is constrained by size (lack of it) due to the slums that have encroached on its property, otherwise it would have been the No 1 airport in passenger size and overall operations even today.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 10 Apr 2018 21:11

For such slot constrained places and p2p to major metros perhaps we should look at 787 and a350 sized planes
They will run full

Japan uses all economy 747 on domestic main routes and was biggest client of 747 flights less than 2 hrs !!

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 10 Apr 2018 21:59

Delhi Intl Airport Debuts In World's Busiest Airports List, Pushes New York's JFK Off
Written By Digital Desk | Mumbai | Published: April 10, 2018 17:29 IST
Hack:
New Delhi’s Indira Gandhi International Airport bumps New York’s John F Kennedy airport as one of the most busiest in the world
The Indian airfield was among the fastest-growing on the list as it showed a 14 percent passenger growth
New Delhi’s Indira Gandhi International Airport bumps New York’s John F Kennedy airport as one of the most busiest in the world.

JFK was among the top 20 busiest airports in the world and has been pushed off as the capital’s airport takes the 16th position owing to the influx in Asia. According to Airports Council International rankings that was released on Monday this happens to be it’s debut into the list.

The Indian airfield was among the fastest-growing on the list as it showed a 14 percent passenger growth.

World aviation's center of gravity continues with its shift towards India and China and the two countries will feature in the world’s top three travel market in the next 2 years.

According to reports the Montreal-based ACI says it’s because of the rise in income and the purchasing power that makes air tickets affordable.

While estimates by International Air Transport Association suggest that Asia Pacific may receive 3.5 billion passengers by 2036. The figure is likely to be twice the forecast of North America and Europe put together.


http://www.republicworld.com/india-news ... ks-jfk-off

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 10 Apr 2018 22:20

Here's the 2017 top 20:
1. Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (Georgia) -- 104 million passengers
2. Beijing Capital International Airport (China) -- 96 million
3. Dubai International Airport (United Arab Emirates) -- 88 million
4. Tokyo Haneda International Airport (Japan) -- 85 million
5. Los Angeles International Airport (California) -- 84.6 million
6. Chicago's O'Hare International Airport (Illinois) -- 80 million
7. London Heathrow Airport (United Kingdom) -- 78 million
8. Hong Kong International Airport (China) -- 73 million
9. Shanghai Pudong International Airport (China) -- 70 million
10. Aéroport de Paris-Charles de Gaulle (France) -- 69 million
11. Amsterdam Airport Schiphol (Netherlands) -- 68.5 million
12. Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport (Texas) -- 67 million
13. Guangzhou Bai Yun International Airport (China) -- 66 million
14. Frankfurt Am Main Airport (Germany) -- 64.5 million
15. Atatürk International Airport (Turkey) -- 64 million
16. Indira Gandhi International Airport (India) -- 63.5 million
17. Soekarno-Hatta International Airport (Indonesia) -- 63 million
18. Singapore Changi Airport (Singapore) -- 62.22 million
19. Incheon International Airport (South Korea) -- 62.16 million
20. Denver International Airport (Colorado) -- 61 million

At less than its current rate of growth in traffic, in 2018, Delhi will report ~71M passengers in 2018, moving it from #22 in 2016 to #16 in 2017 to #9 or 10 in 2018. It's already overtaken some illustrious Asian peers, including Singapore and Seoul Incheon.

Past growth for Delhi (in million passengers):
2007-08 24.0
2008-09 22.9
2009-10 26.1
2010-11 29.9
2011-12 35.9
2012-13 34.4
2013-14 36.9
2014-15 41.0
2015-16 48.4
...
2017-18 ~64

For those wondering, BOM is also in the top 30 now, at #29 with 47.2 million passengers.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby arvin » 10 Apr 2018 22:50

Singha wrote:For such slot constrained places and p2p to major metros perhaps we should look at 787 and a350 sized planes
They will run full

Japan uses all economy 747 on dotmestic main routes and was biggest client of 747 flights less than 2 hrs !!


Exactly.
If using 747 on 2 hr routes is profitable for japan, woudnt. it be here too. Considering the hugh demand for BLR -
delhi or BLR - varanasi and those are served by A320 and 737, I feel 747 would be better suited. A single 747 feuled for say only 3 hour journey at full capacity of 450? will transport 2.5 worth A320 (180 + 180 + 90). I may be missing something here and would like to be corrected.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 10 Apr 2018 22:54

Is there a requirement for 747 capacity transport in one trip within India?

arshyam
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby arshyam » 11 Apr 2018 00:23

Mumbai-Delhi for sure. We need a conveyor belt between those two. Then the much maligned AI keeps rotating on and off a 777 or 787 in the DEL-MAA route depending on the season (I think BLR is also the same). If not now, in a few years' time such sectors will need widebodies throughout the year. My guess is in <5 years.

Bart S
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Bart S » 11 Apr 2018 03:06

It might be costlier to run large planes on short-haul flights, with even 1-2% differences in cost making one carrier uncompetitive vs the others. But this is just a guess, I have no data to back up that conjecture.

What is an issue certainly is the woefully inadequate infrastructure at most domestic terminals where most of the flights are not served by an aerobridge and rely on bussing people to the aircraft parked somewhere else. Will just be a pain to handle a widebody full of economy seats that way, let alone the A380 which requires special infrastructure.

Bart S
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Bart S » 11 Apr 2018 03:11

Singha wrote:web hyperscale is the only scale.

100 mil each for mum and del
50 mil each for chennai, blr and hyd
30 mil for ccu & kochi
n * 10-20 mil for the rest

its time to roll.


Most importantly, the capacity to expand to at least 2X and preferably 3X of those numbers. If Beijing has close to 100M passengers and is still growing rapidly, imagine the capacity needed for our airports in 30 years once we outstrip China in population and economic growth.

arvin
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby arvin » 11 Apr 2018 08:48

Regarding 747 on japan domestic routes, googal tells me they have been retired and replaced by b777 on account of feul effeciency. Since they have to compete with bullet train , 4 engines would be at a disadvantage.

Suraj
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 11 Apr 2018 08:55

Having done Japanese domestic on their primary route (Tokyo Osaka) both by plane and bullet train, I’ll take the latter any day . City center to city center , the time difference isn’t much. But the train is way more spacious and enjoyable . Delhi-Mumbai is much longer though, comparable to Beijing-Shanghai distance .

Singha
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 Apr 2018 09:24

787 and A350 are ideally sized to have enough frequency and yet run full enough - that is why both are in such huge demand! and good enough range and fuel sipping engines . hordes of people incl carpenters, metalworkers , masons etc from UP Bihar who moved to south now take flights to save time and make more money. i personally know a couple of them who routinely use flights.

the new 737-10 and A321neo move thing from 180 into 220-240 range in single class economy....but that will be gone in a flash. we need 300-330 seaters for a lot of routes to quell the constant demand. not all flights between A to B need to be large but the morning and evening rush hours flights....in between they could fly to gulf or east asia and back.

these are swing role rafale type ac that can be deployed on all-economy routes to Gulf and East asia seamlessly or else fat pipes between metro pairs without needing any downtime or reconfig. they are both ETOPS certified for over the sea routes. ...both have 330 mins diversion permits on file....means a massive 5 hrs+ on 1 engine....unless they fly into southern IOR, no other place on earth is possible to exceed 5 x 750kmph

Singha
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 Apr 2018 09:27

air india did operated the A300 on many routes when I was a kid. a fat fuselage that had 2-4-2 seats and could seat some 240...same as the A321neo today.

Vasu
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vasu » 16 Apr 2018 13:47

Large scale airport expansion being taken up by AAI in 2018.

AAI receives bids to manage Jaipur and Ahmedabad airports

Airports Authority of India (AAI) has received three and four bids, respectively, for the management of Ahmedabad and Jaipur airports after the state-run airport developer made changes to bidding conditions to make it more attractive, AAI chairman Guruprasad Mohapatra said.

In 2018, AAI will begin boosting capacity at several airports including Chennai, Srinagar, Pune, Dehradun, Lucknow, Mangaluru, Jaipur, Goa, Agartala, Guwahati, Leh, Patna, Tiruchirappalli, Vijayawada, Port Blair, Agartala, Kozhikode, Thiruvananthapuram and Jabalpur.


and some good news for flyers.

All 14 Grounded A320 Neo Planes Back in Operation


Bob V
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Bob V » 18 Apr 2018 16:28

Banking executive killed after being sucked out of window at 32,000ft

This is tragic. Engine explosion on SWA resulted in sharpnels flying around & piercing the fuselage.

Zynda
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Zynda » 18 Apr 2018 19:05

As per regulations, one needs to show that during an event of blade separation from the engine which results in puncture of the fuselage, there are no chances of fatality for the aircraft (& thus for the entire pax)...not for individuals. Also per regulations, one needs to show that if a part of fuselage is blown away, due to sudden decompression, the seat fittings, seat belts etc. hold up due to the forces generated by the event. The above is a tragic & one of the few isolated incidents.

Haridas
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Haridas » 18 Apr 2018 20:27

Bob V wrote:Banking executive killed after being sucked out of window at 32,000ft

This is tragic. Engine explosion on SWA resulted in sharpnels flying around & piercing the fuselage.



Airlines are inspecting based on priliminary suspicion

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 818770.cms

JayS
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby JayS » 18 Apr 2018 20:57

Verybtragic incidence. CFM failed to check all engines for already known defect.


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