Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

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Vasu
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vasu » 24 May 2018 09:42

Here is a decent write-up on the so-called 'hill airports' of India, because there is no official definition for such. Very good information nuggets here. For example, did you know that the new airport at Pakyong in Sikkim is only a 100 km from Doklam?

UDAN: India's hill airports, their unique challenges and the flight route ahead

“It was not an easy decision for us to fly to Pasighat. The first challenge was that the airport is located in the middle of the jungle and it did not have the navigational aides that other airports usually have. But the issue was resolved. Flying to Pasighat, or for that matter to any hill airport, is absolutely safe,” says CS Subbiah, chief executive officer of Alliance Air, a wholly owned subsidiary of Air India, adding how drains near the runway had to be covered and trees and lampposts uprooted before the airline was given the mandatory safety clearance.

No wonder, Pasighat airport was developed out of an airstrip originally built during the India-China war of 1962. The strip was partly paved, partly grassy. It was originally reinforced with perforated steel plates. In 2010, the Indian Air Force upgraded it.

What followed was installation of facilities such as aprons for ground manoeuvring, air traffic control tower, a security wall, a perimeter road et al. By 2016, it was ready for fixed-wing planes. The other Advanced Landing Grounds (ALG) at Walong, Ziro, Along and Mechuka in Arunachal Pradesh are also ready, though there’s no flight connectivity to those stations.

For example, Kargil, located at about 200 km north of Srinagar, will soon be connected by commercial fixed-wing aircraft belonging to MEHAIR, a pioneer in seaplanes in India. Then, another destination in Arunachal Pradesh, Tezu, is expected to be connected by Zoom Air in a couple of months.

What will, however, make India’s air travel to the hills more fulfilling is when Sikkim’s Pakyong airport, built after cutting a hill and reinforcing a 74-metre wall at an altitude of 4,641 ft, will be launched, tentatively in July.

about 20-25 airports in the country can be branded as hill airports. Currently, fixed-wing planes regularly fly to several of those destinations — Shimla, Kullu (Bhuntar), Kangra (Gaggal), all in Himachal; Srinagar and Leh in Jammu and Kashmir; Calicut (Kozhikode) in Kerala; Shillong in Meghalaya and Lengpui in Mizoram.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 27 May 2018 13:02


Austin
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 29 May 2018 21:05

Cessna 310 made an emergency landing at Van Nuys Airport after the nose landing gear partially deployed. Great job ( Video )

https://twitter.com/Aviationdailyy/stat ... 5289042945

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Indranil » 30 May 2018 04:37

All of Mahindra's Airvans are now type-certified by DGCA. I was looking forward to this. I really hope that they also certify the NM-5 and the (proposed) Airvan 18.

@Mahindra_Aero
May 18

Thank you #DGCA for Type Acceptance of our Turbocharged Airvan 8! Customers in India can now choose between the 300 HP Airvan 8 NA (Normally Aspirated) or 320 HP Airvan 8 TC (Turbocharged).

Image


SP Shukla @Prakashukla
22h22 hours ago

Delighted to announce that #DGCA India has approved new Mahindra #Airvan10 Turboprop.

More utility, more room & fuelled by #JetA1. Most suitable #aircraft for regional connectivity to remotest areas.

Thank you DGCA. Congratulations @arvind_mehra , Keith & @Mahindra_Aero team.
Image

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Indranil » 30 May 2018 23:39

Cross posting.

Khalsa wrote:HAL seeks private partner to build Dhruv copters for civilian market
Thirty Dhruv helicopters built by HAL await collection by army and IAF, having been built ahead of time
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2018/05/hal-seeks-private-partner-to-build.html

For me the two takeaways were
Business Standard learns that the EoI has received 10 responses from private firms, including the Adani Group and Reliance. HAL is currently shortlisting eligible bidders, based on capability and capacity. Then, a winner will be selected based on commercial bidding.

I did not expect this. There were hardly any takers for the civil variant of Dhruv-1. I was worried that they won't get any response: 10 is great!!! For the civilian market though, I think HAL will have much higher success with the LUH (if they can prove reliability).

HAL initiated a certification request four years ago with the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA). HAL officials say EASA is at the final stages of granting certification for the civilian Dhruv.

This has been one of my pet peeves. Good to see it being removed. I am hoping against hope that the ship has not already sailed (with Ecuador) though. If the private industry can take up manufacturing and maintain quality, Dhruv-civil has a fighting chance. But once again, for the civilian market, 3 tonners make much more sense. So waiting for LUH to get clearance.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 17 Jun 2018 09:46

Air Asia CEO may continue to evade CBI summons

Air Asia CEO may continue to evade CBI summons

Abhinandan Mishra
June 16, 2018,

AirAsia chief executive officer Tony Fernandes, who has been named in a first information report (FIR) filed by the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) for allegedly indulging in corruption along with officials of Ministries of Finance and Aviation as well as certain UPA era politicians, is unlikely to join the probe in the near future.

Fernandes, who is presently based in Malaysia, was asked to appear before the CBI for questioning by the apex investigating agency on 6 June, but he did not comply with their request. Instead, he claimed before the Malaysian stock exchange that he had not received any summons from the CBI. This has led to speculation that certain top CBI officials are “going slow” in the probe, by not going after Fernandes with the intensity that they should, to save the bureaucrats and politicians who had played a key role in helping AirAsia CEO.

“If he is questioned, he is going to reveal the names of the politicians and bureaucrats who facilitated the whole deal, illegally. Hence, it is in their interest that Fernandes does not come to India,” said an official source in government.

According to these sources, the airline’s CEO has been advised by his “well-wishers” to stay elusive until the general elections next year and wait for a “favourable” political situation to emerge.

Responding to this newspaper’s email seeking Fernandes’ side of the story, Divya Kumar, who handles AirAsia’s public relations in India, said that “they were not in a position to participate in the story”. To queries related to whether Fernandes had received the CBI summons and, if yes, then why he was not appearing for questioning, Kumar shared the 5 June press note of the company. The release states that “neither AirAsia Group nor Tan Sri Tony Fernandes, in his personal capacity, has received any such notice as of today.”

“If and when, any such notice is received through formal and official channels, then in accordance with the sovereign laws of Malaysia, we will abide by the due process of the letter of the law,” it adds.

There was no response from CBI spokesperson Abhishek Dayal on the newspaper’s email, SMS and phone calls seeking the agency’s response on what it planned to do next since Fernandes, in his official communication to the Malaysian bourse, said that he had not received any communications from the CBI. An official from the Malaysian stock exchange, while replying to this newspaper’s queries on whether it was aware of the criminal charges that had been filed against Fernandes, said that they would share an appropriate response after receiving it from the concerned division.

A government source explained, “Fernandes has been advised to wait till the situation becomes favourable next year as there are chances that there may be a change in the ruling dispensation. Certain officials, who are responsible for handling the probe, too believe that the pressure on them to prosecute those named in the FIR will decrease as the case gradually becomes old, and hence are not pushing too much for Fernandes’ interrogation.”


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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 21 Jun 2018 20:44

MC-21 - the new Russian flagship


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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby jaysimha » 27 Jun 2018 11:04

http://dgca.nic.in/cars/D4F-F4.pdf
OFFICE OF DIRECTOR GENERAL OF CIVIL AVIATION
PROCEDURES AND REQUIREMENTS FOR LICENSING OF WATER AERODROME

JayS
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby JayS » 28 Jun 2018 20:01

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... er-448642/

Some good numbers on time taken for various major and minor civil airliner programs by various OEM.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 29 Jun 2018 22:17

India's Jet Airways says to buy additional 75 Boeing 737 Max jets

This is the third agreement Jet Airways has entered into for Boeing’s 737 MAX narrowbody jets over the last one year, taking the total to 225 aircraft. The Indian airline signed firm orders for 75 planes each in October and April.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Neela » 11 Jul 2018 12:56

argghh!
Mighty p1ssed today after the 100-150 seater market entrant A220 yesterday. Our RTA programme was scrapped.

The playing field has now
Irkut MC-21
Sukhoi Super jet
Embraer 100 series ( long time players)
Mitsubishi Rejoinal Jet
Airbus 220 ( renamed from Bombardier C series announced yesterday! )

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 Jul 2018 17:15

the orders are in response to surging demand - our domestic growth is fastest of the major markets
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 019645.cms
NEW DELHI: India's domestic passenger traffic grew by 27.9 per cent in March, a global airline association said on Thursday.

According to the International Air Transport Association (IATA), India's domestic demand -- revenue passenger kilometres (RPK) -- was highest amongst major aviation markets like Australia, Brazil, China, Japan, Russia and the United States.

"The domestic India market posted double-digit annual growth for the 43rd consecutive month (27.9 per cent, up from 22.9 per cent in February), with passenger demand continuing to be supported by a combination of strong economic and network growth," IATA said in its global passenger traffic results for March 2018.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 Jul 2018 17:20

we are past a inflection point where vast nos of people can afford to fly multiple times a year
also due to persistent shortages of tkts and inability to plan ahead for months, people have kind of given up on trains - comfortable overnight buses or flights rule the roost in middle class of tier-1 / 2

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/ ... y-predicts
ndia will grow to represent the world’s third largest aviation market for passenger throughput after the US and China by 2020, according to the Airports Council International.

Delhi, the country’s busiest airport for passenger traffic, grew by 14.1% year-over year pushing it up from 22nd to the 16th busiest airport in the world in 2017.

Calcutta, Hyderabad, Bangalore, Madras also ranked among the fastest growing airports in the world with year-on-year growth of 26.9%, 19.6%, 12.9% and 10.5% respectively.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 Jul 2018 17:24

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... er_traffic

while the top10 or so always hog the limelight, we must invest big in the 11-50 airports because it is they (spokes) who most move huge nos of people in and out of the top10 hubs. most are owned by AAI except a few like COK.

it is time to privatize the next 10-15 as was done for the others and relegate AAI to airside and ATC ops only. this will drive scale and efficiency and offer business prospects to private parties than a sulky govt run monopoly.

and the top10 ongoing expansions must be speeded up by Govt diktat. blr airport runway expansion and T2 is going on at snails pace for a year+ now. all I see on takeoff is red earth and no glass, steel, concrete. T1 is bursting at seams with 26 mil - even late at night the outside area is like majestic bus stand/NDLS with hordes moving in and out, camping until daybreak, 1000s of taxis, 100 large buses ..... there is no real downtime at night now...flights are only cheaper at really odd hours like 1am or 3am and hordes of people take those!

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chola » 11 Jul 2018 17:30

If we don’t leverage the third largest market in the works into a reasonable aircraft industry then we deserve to stay turd world in the eyes of the West.

We need to start a regional jet program. More important than even the mil programs like AMCA or Tejas MK2. We leverage our market into a commercial jet and it will lift the entire industrial base, including the mil portion.

The world subsidizes Amreeki and Euro dominance in military aircraft dominance by buying exclusively from Boeing and Airbus.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 11 Jul 2018 22:25

DEL airport has grown into a monster in terms of passenger traffic really quickly. When T3 was built in 2010, they were a medium size airport in global terms, with 25M passengers a year, or thereabouts. Last fiscal year, it was 66M and this year it will probably be 75M, which would probably put it between London Heathrow and Hong Kong, ranking globally #6-8 . One more year and they'll be 80 million+, putting them in the rarefied league with Los Angeles and Tokyo Haneda close to or within top 5.

I hope they build T4 ASAP.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 11 Jul 2018 23:28

Suraj wrote:I hope they build T4 ASAP.

And another runway if they can find the space. All those gigantic airports have several runways. Delhi is making do with 2 for now but if the traffic keeps growing like this they'll have problems. A second airport in Noida might be a better option.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 Jul 2018 23:34

greater noida airport has been approved. need a new behemoth there to serve whole meerut-faridabad-ghaziabad region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noida_Int ... al_Airport

by mid century NCR will be 300km from end to end of unbroken urbanization. it will need 2 behemoth airports, maybe 3.

blr and mysore will be one city. blr is already 100km on N-S and E-W

chennai kanchipuram too

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby yensoy » 12 Jul 2018 06:28

Suraj wrote:DEL airport has grown into a monster in terms of passenger traffic really quickly. When T3 was built in 2010, they were a medium size airport in global terms, with 25M passengers a year, or thereabouts. Last fiscal year, it was 66M and this year it will probably be 75M, which would probably put it between London Heathrow and Hong Kong, ranking globally #6-8 . One more year and they'll be 80 million+, putting them in the rarefied league with Los Angeles and Tokyo Haneda close to or within top 5.

I hope they build T4 ASAP.


The top order of business, as a national priority, should be to complete the Navi Mumbai airport. It's the abysmal lack of capacity of Mumbai airport which is putting a damper on many local airlines expansion plans, and to some extent putting the onus of growth on Delhi. Even if Navi Mumbai is built, without transport connections it is as good as dead, so road linkages should be built right away to make the airport viable from day 1.

Delhi airport is the de-facto international airport serving the nation's capital, North, East and Central India. Without reliever airports with viable local economies, this trend will continue. E.g. Kolkata has a good airport today, but lacks the demographics/economy to support flights to a range of destinations e.g. Europe; also despite being a natural location to support East Asia flights there isn't much happening there. Rapid economic growth of North, East and Central India - especially in private industry - which can give those areas viable international airports (like we have in the South and West) is needed to truly decongest Delhi.

Delhi airport and pretty much all of Indian aviation's international fortunes are finished if Pakis enforce no-fly zone. We have most of our eggs in one basket. This is another reason Navi Mumbai must happen ASAP. Not making progress on Navi Mumbai is an act of treason in my opinion.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 12 Jul 2018 08:16

Yensoy: I know you have your heart in the right place, so here’s a suggestion - look up and collect all the information about the Navi Mumbai airport , including the status of work updated in the past year, and post it here . Even better, be the expert on the topic here, who’s constantly keeping up with the news . You can do better than the above, which is a collection of homilies plus a nonsensical claim about a no fly zone being imposed .

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Kashi » 12 Jul 2018 08:36

I believe yensoy is referring to the fact that most westward flights from Delhi overfly the Pakistani airspace and if they deny permissions for these flights, it would affect these flights in and out of Delhi.

Even if it were to happen, don't think the affect would be as drastic as yensoy fears.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby yensoy » 12 Jul 2018 09:18

Suraj wrote:Yensoy: I know you have your heart in the right place, so here’s a suggestion - look up and collect all the information about the Navi Mumbai airport , including the status of work updated in the past year, and post it here . Even better, be the expert on the topic here, who’s constantly keeping up with the news . You can do better than the above, which is a collection of homilies plus a nonsensical claim about a no fly zone being imposed .


I know the status very well, thank you for your suggestion. Try to understand the following:

1. Mumbai airport is the only major Indian airport not seeing double digit growth. Why? We all know the reason. Here's an article from 2014 asking for NMIA to be constructed https://www.firstpost.com/business/why-mumbai-desperately-needs-navi-mumbai-airport-despite-csia-t2-1333977.html. It was an urgent need 5 years ago! BOM holds the dubious distinction of the highest traffic (mostly) single runway airport https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/mumbai/mumbai-airport-sets-record-with-980-flights-in-24-hours/article22651599.ece.

2. At NMIA, they are still carving out the hill. I guess we can consider ourselves lucky that environmental and displaced people issues are resolved! As for the road access - they are asking for bids in August for a 6 lane highway https://www.moneylife.in/article/coastal-road-to-be-constructed-in-navi-mumbai-at-a-cost-of-rs711-crore/54632.html, which will be ready 2+ years after the airport. Great project management by MH!

3. We are one terror attack away from no-fly zone, you seem to be comfortable with that situation, I am not. Relations with Pakistan are at record low, people interaction & travel is nearly zero unless of diplomatic or medical nature, many of our own members are calling for sealing off Pakistan.
Pakistan leadership can easily ban overflight (they have little to lose) - do we have a plan B? 20% of our aviation sector will crash if that were to happen. A reliever airport with path to the West that skirts Pakistan is very the need of the day. The so-called "nonsensical claim" was discussed in the press https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/economy/policy/banning-pakistan-airlines-from-indian-airspace-may-hurt-domestic-carriers-too/article9163765.ece.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby yensoy » 12 Jul 2018 09:25

Kashi wrote:I believe yensoy is referring to the fact that most westward flights from Delhi overfly the Pakistani airspace and if they deny permissions for these flights, it would affect these flights in and out of Delhi.

Even if it were to happen, don't think the affect would be as drastic as yensoy fears.


Most Air India flights & Jet to Europe and US will become unviable. Here are the reasons
1. BOM doesn't have capacity, flights will have to be routed to DEL eventually
2. For European flights, the rotations will exceed 24 hours which will totally screw up scheduling
3. For US flights which are already long, the additional 1.5-2 hours of flying time will result in much higher fuel load (you need fuel to carry fuel) and very likely limits on payload.
4. Middle-east flights will affect all, not just Air India.

With Delhi Westbound accounting for around 60%+ of the long haul international traffic by Indian carriers, it will be a body blow.

Now if BOM or NMIA had capacity, the whole hub structure could be moved out temporarily, with some connectors thrown in. Much easier to deal with.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 12 Jul 2018 09:30

Kashi wrote:I believe yensoy is referring to the fact that most westward flights from Delhi overfly the Pakistani airspace and if they deny permissions for these flights, it would affect these flights in and out of Delhi.

Even if it were to happen, don't think the affect would be as drastic as yensoy fears.

Yes, that's totally going to happen with absolutely no repercussions to them, because they're impervious to any pressure from the west and the rest of the world in general to stop behaving like morons cutting their own nose off to spite someone else's face. All the European, America and ME carriers with massive and lucrative traffic into and out of India are just going to just roll with the additional cost imposed on them by a party who later comes begging them for $$s to make ends meet.

They'll never be able to impose a cost on just AI and not the other countries, because *we* will demand that those other countries also take the same route we're compelled to take, or else we'll suspend our bilaterals with them for the duration of the matter, and tell them if they want to get back the previous frequencies, please talk to Islamabad.

Yensoy: you misunderstand - I'm not asking you to explain the Navi Mumbai status to me right now. I want to use your zeal about the Navi Mumbai airport to be the go to source of updates on that project, on a regular basis on this thread, but sans all the remaining embellishment and off topic moaning about TSP security concerns reg north India. There are plenty of airports in the world in greater state of potential danger, e.g. Seoul Incheon is within NoKo artillery range.

Bottomline: The discussion on TSP considerations is an unwanted distraction on this thread. An informal warning to stop wasting time has already been stated. Posters are welcome to continue beating that drum as long as they're willing to accept the consequences.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 12 Jul 2018 16:27

undivided UP + Bihar combined pop of around 280 mil which is more than pop of japan+france+germany+uk does not have a single major domestic or international airport other than maybe a few gulf flights.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vips » 12 Jul 2018 16:35

Delhi airport's growth is precisely because there is no other major airport in North, Central and the eastern belt upto Bihar.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 12 Jul 2018 20:13

Data for DEL indicates that the bulk of the volume growth is domestic traffic.

2010
Total 28M
Domestic: 19M
Intl: 9M

2017:
Total: 66M
Domestic: 48M
Intl: 18M

Domestic traffic will continue to push DEL up into the 80M+ behemoth category by ~2020 , as people get richer but IR doesn’t have the sort of HSR network to absorb demand from the growing body of people with the money to get places fast, but not the means, other than air travel.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby rsingh » 12 Jul 2018 22:51

Singha wrote:undivided UP + Bihar combined pop of around 280 mil which is more than pop of japan+france+germany+uk does not have a single major domestic or international airport other than maybe a few gulf flights.

Jaipur, Chandigarh and Lukhnow have potential to cater international tourists. But sala choti soch. These airport are too small. Once TUI, Thomas C, and Nikermans type filghts are encouraged........there will be no place to keep a foot there.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chola » 12 Jul 2018 23:20

We need to start soon. The third largest aviation market must be used to build up our industrial base. We need to start the process of planning, designing and building our own commercial airliners. In the long run this will be far more important to the country than the mil projects (eventually a developed commercial side will make the mil side even better.)

https://m.economictimes.com/news/science/india-should-build-its-own-aircraft-ex-isro-chief-kiran-kumar/amp_articleshow/64917304.cms

India should build its own aircraft: Ex-ISRO chief Kiran Kumar
By PTI | Jul 09, 2018, 03.11 PM IST

HYDERABAD: A growing large economy like India with huge domestic market should build aircraft indigenously and make sure that it does not depend on international entities alone to meet its needs, says an eminent scientist.

The former Chairman of Indian Space Research Organisation A S Kiran Kumar said India is now poised for a significant growth in the aircraft industry.

The President-elect of Aeronautical Society of India said many of the Indian industries and private enterprises actually contribute to the global aircraft industry and provide some key components because of the "advantages" they have.

These industries and enterprises are establishing newer capabilities within the country. "In the coming days and years, there is a tremendous opportunity, we need to build on the capabilities of the country," Kiran Kumar told .

. . .

"It's a positive development that's happening and in the coming days and years, we also need a large number of aircraft; if we are able to do some more developments on aircraft industry within the country, it will be great," he said.

Government, Kiran Kumar said, needs to make sure that the environment is conducive within the country, and industries are supported and encouraged to build aircraft.

"We also need to make sure that we don't depend only on outside entitities for building the aircraft, we need to start building in the country," Kiran Kumar said.
Indian aircraft manufacturing industry should start developing, he said.

. . .

"We want Indian aircraft to be realised. Right now, some of the Indian companies have started providing parts to the global aircraft industry, we want an Indian aircraft to also come out," he said.

Kiran Kumar agreed that such an endeavour needs a clear road-map and vision to achieve the objective.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 13 Jul 2018 07:50

Jaipur is the biggest destination of domestic tourists and the biggest hub of handicraft and textiles manufacture. its pink city area is a hive of this business. lots of tourists incl bideshi doing the golden triangle of delhi-agra-jaipur use the buses.

the newer parts of town, including some of the areas developed by the kings are very well planned with huge wide streets and loads of wealthy people. last october I took a ride on its metro which was a single line and no doubt being expanded.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 13 Jul 2018 07:53

IR missed the bus on catering to the 100s of millions of people now coming into able to fly status. this lot will not settle for anything less than shatabdi for inter city travel and even the rajdhanis take too long so they went to air.

to cater to this lot now, the semi-HSR work of 160-200kmph had to have started 15 years ago to have the network fully ready now. at 150avg, a 1000km del-mum type journey would have been a viable 7 hours.

now with limited PTOs, inability to plan and buy tkts months in advance and having to waste 3-4 days on the train , nobody with any means is really looking at trains as a option on long routes like inter metro GQ / EWNS

but I dont think its necessarily a bad thing - instead of premium rails but saddled with IR's baggage of surplus labour and inefficient ops , the aviation sector has seen the growth

IR should imo focus on making it viable all over with 500km distance journeys covered in 3-4 hours not just a few shatabdi trains. 500-700km is not a very viable airline option due to hassles of going to airport etc .... this is doable. a dense such network would be viable among the cities in UP and Bihar......all closer together and makes semi-HSR very viable there.

but hardly any great innovation seen in this segment. BLR-CHennai is still super crowded ..... unless 3rd and 4th rails are put in asap, all of this HSR/semi-HSR is stillborn hot talk.

NDLS should be made the hub of semi HSR chair cars and a network of such routes should very frequently cover all its neighbouring areas .... upto 1000km away. this will cover half the country's pop right there. anything more than 1000km I dont think the expenses are worth it.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby manish » 14 Jul 2018 17:20

Singha wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_India#Passenger_traffic

while the top10 or so always hog the limelight, we must invest big in the 11-50 airports because it is they (spokes) who most move huge nos of people in and out of the top10 hubs. most are owned by AAI except a few like COK.

it is time to privatize the next 10-15 as was done for the others and relegate AAI to airside and ATC ops only. this will drive scale and efficiency and offer business prospects to private parties than a sulky govt run monopoly.

and the top10 ongoing expansions must be speeded up by Govt diktat. blr airport runway expansion and T2 is going on at snails pace for a year+ now. all I see on takeoff is red earth and no glass, steel, concrete. T1 is bursting at seams with 26 mil - even late at night the outside area is like majestic bus stand/NDLS with hordes moving in and out, camping until daybreak, 1000s of taxis, 100 large buses ..... there is no real downtime at night now...flights are only cheaper at really odd hours like 1am or 3am and hordes of people take those!

Posting after a looooong time...good to see the old warhorses still chugging along strongly.

I have two small observations on the topic at hand.

Firstly, one curious aspect of airport infrastructure development that doesn't seem to get any significant press is the regulatory aspect. We have AERA which is somewhat analogous to TRAI managing the economic regulation of this sector and the entity came into being after the last (actually the first) big round of capacity addition and expansion happened in the form of new gleaming infrastructure at HYD, BLR, DEL and BOM (in that order).

While we as a nation have been riding the capacity wave created back then, AERA later introduced the concept of 'Normative Costs' for infrastructure development a couple of years back and told airport operators that the benchmark cost of terminal construction was Rs 65,000/SQM, which was basically much lesser than what it cost to build up our 4 gateway airports in the previous decade. Since then, the airport developers have been haggling with the regulator on this aspect and no one is willing to really commit the billions needed since they are unsure of whether regulator will consider the full amount while calculating tariffs or not. Unsurprisingly, things have been a little slow on the expansion front.

Second is the approach towards privatization/private participation in AAI assets. MAA and CCU were halfway through a privatization process when the present government pulled the plug in 2014-15. Subsequent half hearted attempts at Jaipur, Ahmedabad etc to hand over operations and management to private players have basically attracted zero interest, even in the world's fastest growing market.

Government needs to decide what role it really wants to play in the sector and then stick to it. Once there is clarity and certainty, things will move.

Rest is all maaya onlee.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Neshant » 23 Jul 2018 08:39

chola wrote:We need to start soon. The third largest aviation market must be used to build up our industrial base. We need to start the process of planning, designing and building our own commercial airliners. In the long run this will be far more important to the country than the mil projects (eventually a developed commercial side will make the mil side even better.)


We can't even build an assault rifle - having to source this most basic equipment by going on a shopping (or is it junketing) trip around the world.

The govt procurement process is designed to ensure that any local product is rejected in favor of expensive imports.

Commercially no company would dare sink their funds into such a venture which could end up like the "100 year Arjun tank project" where there is no intention to purchase the product after decades of development and tons of money spent. Yet still the military issues suggestions on what should be changed on the tank to give the developers a false sense of hope and keep them running around. The ultimate nightmare "customer".

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Neela » 23 Jul 2018 13:46

India preparing comprehensive aviation plan for 2035: Suresh Prabhu



Terming the creation of infrastructure a big challenge, Civil Aviation Minister Suresh Prabhu on Saturday said India will need at least 1,000 planes in the next few years as it prepares a comprehensive and integrated plan for 2035 to boost the sector.


Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 895817.cms

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chola » 24 Jul 2018 00:15

Neshant wrote:
chola wrote:We need to start soon. The third largest aviation market must be used to build up our industrial base. We need to start the process of planning, designing and building our own commercial airliners. In the long run this will be far more important to the country than the mil projects (eventually a developed commercial side will make the mil side even better.)

Commercially no company would dare sink their funds into such a venture which could end up like the "100 year Arjun tank project" where there is no intention to purchase the product after decades of development and tons of money spent. Yet still the military issues suggestions on what should be changed on the tank to give the developers a false sense of hope and keep them running around. The ultimate nightmare "customer".


We have no choice on this. We cannot have the world’s third largest market feeding just phoren firms onlee.

We can use our money to grow our industrial or re-enforce and perpetuate gora dominance in aviation deep into our future.


Neela wrote:India preparing comprehensive aviation plan for 2035: Suresh Prabhu

Terming the creation of infrastructure a big challenge, Civil Aviation Minister Suresh Prabhu on Saturday said India will need at least 1,000 planes in the next few years as it prepares a comprehensive and integrated plan for 2035 to boost the sector.


Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 895817.cms


Thank you, Neela saar.

Neshantji, there is hope.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Neshant » 24 Jul 2018 12:40

The way China is building up itself as a competitor to Boeing and Airbus is to source the engines from GE but develop all else in house with 3rd tier western subcontractors - mostly to get through the FAA licensing bureaucracy more easily. It plans to market it's planes in the west eventually once it gets FAA approval.

Eventually they will even replace the GE engines with ones of their own design. Slowly but surely they are matching the US on all fronts.

More importantly it's forcing most of it's domestic carriers to buy the C919 plane. So the order books are filling up for it's as yet unproven plane.

India would have to follow the same path if it wants to develop a regional airliner. But is there any clear plan in India to do so? The article has zero information. It's a vague declaration by some guy.

The competition in the regional as opposed to intercontinental ranged aircraft is fierce due to many players.

There's the Boeing 737, the Airbus 320, the Bombardier C series, the Embrarer something or other, the Mitsubishi regional jet, soon China's C919.. etc. It's a long list and any new product would have to at least match the competition in safety and efficiency not to mention price.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 24 Jul 2018 17:01

BIAL terminal2

Image

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 24 Jul 2018 17:06

but design is again single level with single level car park. just similar to the existing one when every major apt has separate level of arrivals and dep and multi storey car park.
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthre ... =138958858

work in ongoing at snails pace while promoters jockey for concessions from govt one and current one is already at 120% capacity. its getting very tough to get through security at any hour. not enough security lanes.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Prasad » 24 Jul 2018 17:21

Not to mention, the approach road needs to be 4-laned right now. With double the capacity, even with a possible metro, it will be hilariously under-served by road.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SBajwa » 24 Jul 2018 21:43

Suraj wrote:DEL airport has grown into a monster in terms of passenger traffic really quickly. When T3 was built in 2010, they were a medium size airport in global terms, with 25M passengers a year, or thereabouts. Last fiscal year, it was 66M and this year it will probably be 75M, which would probably put it between London Heathrow and Hong Kong, ranking globally #6-8 . One more year and they'll be 80 million+, putting them in the rarefied league with Los Angeles and Tokyo Haneda close to or within top 5.

I hope they build T4 ASAP.



They also need to have more International flights to regional cities (Chandigarh, Amritsar, Ludhiana, Ahmadabad, etc)

The airport at Amritsar and Chandigarh are under utilized owing to the lobbying of transporters (to-from Delhi airport to Punjab) and hoteliers in Delhi.

I travel to India every year and I have no need to get into Delhi but tickets are twice the amount to Chandigarh/Amritsar than to Delhi. At least 35% of the traffic at Delhi goes to Punjab that causes massive rush on highways, etc too.
This group is the one usually responsible for getting the most flights into Delhi and making sure no other airport comes up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMR_Group


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