Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

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chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 22 Mar 2019 00:50

the bean counters have retreated just a little bit.


twitter

Good news re AOA DISAGREE: Boeing Will Stop Charging to Install Safety Feature After Deadly Crashes

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 23 Mar 2019 17:55

chetak wrote:is it any mystery as to why the black boxes have gone to a non US facility in France for decoding and analyses??


I read it was on request from Ethopian Airline that BB was sent to EU ( UK/French ) expect to decode , although some one from US also join in there.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 23 Mar 2019 17:56

Onboard IndiGo’s Inaugural flight to Istanbul

https://livefromalounge.boardingarea.co ... -istanbul/

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 23 Mar 2019 21:16

Preliminary 2018 data: busiest airports

Code: Select all

Airport          Passengers RankChange  %Change
Atlanta                107.4M     -    +3.3%
Beijing                100.9M     -    +5.4%
Dubai                  89.1M      -    +1.0%
Los Angeles            87.5M      +1   +3.5%
Tokyo Haneda           87.1M      -1   +2.0%
Chicago OHare          83.3M      -    +4.4%
London Heathrow        80.1M      -    +2.7%
Hong Kong              74.5M      -    +2.6%
Shanghai Pudong        74M        -    +5.7%
Paris CDG              72.2M      -    +4.0%
Amsterdam              71.0M      -    +3.7%
New Delhi              70M        +4   +10.2%
Guangzhou              69.7M      -    +6.0%
Frankfurt              69.5M      -    +7.8%
Dallas DFW             69.1M      -3   +3.0%

DEL was at 63.4M passengers in 2017 . It went from #16 in 2017 to #12 in 2018. For 2019, an 8% growth will see it at 75.5M passengers, likely overtaking Amsterdam, Paris, HK and Shanghai for a position in the lower top 10.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 23 Mar 2019 21:24

Details the new 737 MAX MCAS system - MCAS = Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System

http://www.b737.org.uk/mcas.htm

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 23 Mar 2019 21:32

Austin wrote:
chetak wrote:is it any mystery as to why the black boxes have gone to a non US facility in France for decoding and analyses??


I read it was on request from Ethopian Airline that BB was sent to EU ( UK/French ) expect to decode , although some one from US also join in there.



US will have only an observer's role here.

They will not be writing or even influencing the direction of the inquiries as well as the conclusions.

At best they can agree and at worst, they can appeal against the findings.

This is absolutely the best thing that could have happened, under the circumstances.

Is it surprising to anyone that the US airlines flying the Max8 were all aware of the MCAS and its implications??

Also, airbus just does not have the production capacity to take on Boeing right now so even canceled orders for the Max8 will not immediately benefit them.

The hans may, however, be able to ramp up more quickly than any of the others.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 25 Mar 2019 10:44

Even if US has an observer role , The Euro Atlantic Spirit will prevail.

Boeing has a fat purse and all politician backing them including DT and they would likely with a slap on the wrist will be left out without repercussion.

Had this happened to a Chinese or Russian aircraft they would have to close their shop by now.

Atleast I hope Boeing pays significant compensation to Lion and Ethiopian Air Passengers , Crew and Pilot that would be the only solace I look forward too.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Mukesh.Kumar » 25 Mar 2019 21:30

Naresh Goyal steps down at Jet Airways paving the path for restructuring of debts, fresh can infusion from banks and a takeover.

BBCBBC

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 26 Mar 2019 09:41

Airbus Secures $35 Billion China Deal in New Blow to Boeing

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... from-china

300-plane order is announced during President Xi’s Paris visit
Purchase is bigger than transaction originally mooted in 2018

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 27 Mar 2019 11:13

Austin wrote:Airbus Secures $35 Billion China Deal in New Blow to Boeing

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... from-china

300-plane order is announced during President Xi’s Paris visit
Purchase is bigger than transaction originally mooted in 2018



Austin ji,

The Euro Atlantic Spirit will prevail??


when dealing with the frenchies, simply follow the stench of the money and you will never ever go wrong.


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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 28 Mar 2019 10:49

Pilots searched for right checklist before Lion Air crash: investigators

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indo ... SKCN1R20XH

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chola » 28 Mar 2019 15:04



A lot of us here despise this old professor because of his less than glowing opinion on the LCA. But he does make sense here -- though personally I think there are projects we must take on irregardless of better competition because we need to advance the industrial base.

Still doing things that play to your advantages can bring in critical funds in the journey to that advanced industrial base.

Our RTA 70 project is planned to compete with the ATR and Q400 (both above). A snowflake in hell has a better chance !

...

Instead of going bald headed into such (mis) adventures, we should look at the niches and the gaps in the product range and develop products that are not possible to be economically developed or produced by the West : simple, labour intensive, appropriate technology aircraft which would break their bank if they tried to compete.

India has some ninety cities of between three million and half a million populations and another hundred with populations between half a million and two hundred thousand, all with rich agricultural hinterland, the mean distance between the nearest two being around 190 kms. This market is ideal for a series of (relatively) high capacity, mixed freight /passenger, near STOL rugged transport aircraft, quite different and not competing with any Western product.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 28 Mar 2019 20:52

what he speaks of is a DC3-mki or an AN32++ (which already exists but Saudis have the IP)
in a govt run setup or military use, it will work but to make any profit for a pvt run op , anything today has to be as refined as the ATR72 or Q400.

doing something around the DO338 may be good. i heard the owner of the IP was trying to sell it.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 29 Mar 2019 13:56

How many private Air will buy a HAL Built 70 seater over says ATR or Q or Bombardier series ?

That is even assuming what ever they built has to be better in fuel effeciency and cost per seat compared to the established players.

So what ever we make will be sold to PSUs or Government funded airlines ......So they rather make that is reliable and easy to maintain over cut throat fuel effeciency factor.........Reliability is the key as a crash might change the fortune in Civil operations.

Do-328 or An-158 should be a good choice to start with and indiginies it 100 % either by buying the IP fully and production or just reverse engineer gradually.

Due to Ukraine economic problems they would be happy to sell some variant of An-158 or 148 ( 100 and 75 seater ) at a price , both are sturdy airframe , good engine for hot high operation and minimal support infra to operate these.

Other good options are Ukraine An-140 Turboprop 50 seater or Russian new Il-114V 68 seater both are turboprop

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby pgbhat » 29 Mar 2019 14:39

Interesting thread on 737 Max problems.
https://twitter.com/trevorsumner/status ... 2531155974

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Mar 2019 15:09

Austin wrote:How many private Air will buy a HAL Built 70 seater over says ATR or Q or Bombardier series ?

That is even assuming what ever they built has to be better in fuel effeciency and cost per seat compared to the established players.

So what ever we make will be sold to PSUs or Government funded airlines ......So they rather make that is reliable and easy to maintain over cut throat fuel effeciency factor.........Reliability is the key as a crash might change the fortune in Civil operations.

Do-328 or An-158 should be a good choice to start with and indiginies it 100 % either by buying the IP fully and production or just reverse engineer gradually.

Due to Ukraine economic problems they would be happy to sell some variant of An-158 or 148 ( 100 and 75 seater ) at a price , both are sturdy airframe , good engine for hot high operation and minimal support infra to operate these.

Other good options are Ukraine An-140 Turboprop 50 seater or Russian new Il-114V 68 seater both are turboprop


the Indian Forces are always there, no??

need to replace engines though, with some version or equivalent of the canadian PT series or higher rated, alternate non russian powerplants.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 29 Mar 2019 15:30

Every where it is the same thing , Either the host country airforce or the civil airline funded by government takes the onus to be the first operator because new aircraft has many childhood disease and these are identified and rectified over period of years sometimes it gets detected earlier and fixed in rare cases it does not and may take years.

India does not have a multiple government funded airlines that would be willing to take this risk , Private player wont put their money so IAF has to thought it is not the right organisation to operate civil types because civil types have high turnaround time that IAF wont have. ( look who is the first operator for Saras )

In Russia it is Aeroflot that is the initial operator for Superjet and Ukranian An-148 was used by other Russian government airlines to be the first operator then over period of years they are operated by private player or exported.

In case of Boeing or Airbus since they are established players they give good discount for new operators knowing well they may encounter issues like i said childhood disease with new types so they take the chance. ( 787 , MAX and A380 had their share of problems for the first few operators )

Engines needs to be EASA certified does not matter if its western , indian or russian .....once you certify the engine you are good to go.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chola » 29 Mar 2019 15:53

^^^ Without government involvement and subsidization, Airbus would never have got off the ground and we would still be in a Boeing monopoly.

I'm a freemarketeer but even I know that there are industries you can't build locally without government to protect it during infancy.

India has a socialist system with PSUs anyways. Supporting Air India can also mean equipping it with local equipment in the appropriate areas. Those would be shorter regional routes and those supplying the trunks where something like the An-132 (groused about missing this for a long time) would be well within our ability to make and maintain.

In the end, we can either let the all countless billions generated from one of the three largest aviation on earth go into someone else's coffers or make an effort to keep at least a portion of that inhouse.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 29 Mar 2019 16:01

An-132 is a good design rock sturdy and with new engines it will be better in terms of fuel effeciency but it is still a dated design of 60's , You cant fundamental change that aircraft to be better other then use a newer engine and glass cockpit but the gains will be only from engine not from its structures or aerodynamics.

An-148/An-158 and IL114V are all modern design , An-158 is a 99 seater and Ukraine would happily sell the design to any one who can pay.

That design is good for Civil and Military due to its high mounted wings plus designed to land at airport with minimum infra.

Just google for An-158 its quite good a proven and far more modern design compared to An-132

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 29 Mar 2019 16:02

Automatic anti-stall system activated before Ethiopian Airlines crash: report

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/29/afri ... index.html

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 29 Mar 2019 16:04

chola wrote:^^^ Without government involvement and subsidization, Airbus would never have got off the ground and we would still be in a Boeing monopoly.


Both Boeing and Airbus are subsidised by their government via their Defence Wing of the company , Infact both accuse each other of being subsidised by their government as means of unfair competition :lol:

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Mar 2019 16:08

Austin wrote:Every where it is the same thing , Either the host country airforce or the civil airline funded by government takes the onus to be the first operator because new aircraft has many childhood disease and these are identified and rectified over period of years sometimes it gets detected earlier and fixed in rare cases it does not and may take years.

India does not have a multiple government funded airlines that would be willing to take this risk , Private player wont put their money so IAF has to thought it is not the right organisation to operate civil types because civil types have high turnaround time that IAF wont have. ( look who is the first operator for Saras )

In Russia it is Aeroflot that is the initial operator for Superjet and Ukranian An-148 was used by other Russian government airlines to be the first operator then over period of years they are operated by private player or exported.

In case of Boeing or Airbus since they are established players they give good discount for new operators knowing well they may encounter issues like i said childhood disease with new types so they take the chance. ( 787 , MAX and A380 had their share of problems for the first few operators )

Engines needs to be EASA certified does not matter if its western , indian or russian .....once you certify the engine you are good to go.


my remark was meant to be sarcastic. These guys are always the first guinea pigs, to be guilted, cajoled and suckered into acceptance,

Does anyone think that the saras has a future?? sure, its already being touted as the "ideal" plane for the forces.

there is a tremendous difference if the engines are western or russian. Difference between sitting on the ground and being up and about.

certification is mandatory and an enforceable legal requirement that none can escape. EASA alone?? not really OK because FAA is more accepted and once FAA has said OK, EASA/others will tamely follow.
Last edited by chetak on 29 Mar 2019 16:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chola » 29 Mar 2019 16:15

Austin wrote:An-132 is a good design rock sturdy and with new engines it will be better in terms of fuel effeciency but it is still a dated design of 60's , You cant fundamental change that aircraft to be better other then use a newer engine and glass cockpit but the gains will be only from engine not from its structures or aerodynamics.

An-148/An-158 and IL114V are all modern design , An-158 is a 99 seater and Ukraine would happily sell the design to any one who can pay.

That design is good for Civil and Military due to its high mounted wings plus designed to land at airport with minimum infra.

Just google for An-158 its quite good a proven and far more modern design compared to An-132



Agreed, Austin ji. I would love to see us make a deal on one of the more modern designs from Ukraine! But are they up for sale? They are selling but not the whole farm yet because they still want to have an aerospace industry.

That said, the older base design of the An-32 is proven and tested with years of service in India so we have a pool of people intimate with the type. Also, I think it being a more basic design might be something within our current technology level to build.

But of course a newer design is better provided we get it and is within our capabilities.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chola » 29 Mar 2019 16:22

Austin wrote:
chola wrote:^^^ Without government involvement and subsidization, Airbus would never have got off the ground and we would still be in a Boeing monopoly.


Both Boeing and Airbus are subsidised by their government via their Defence Wing of the company , Infact both accuse each other of being subsidised by their government as means of unfair competition :lol:



chetak wrote:Does anyone think that the saras has a future?? sure, its already being touted as the "ideal" plane for the forces.

there is a tremendous difference if the engines are western or russian. Difference between sitting on the ground and being up and about.



Chetak ji, it comes down to whether WE want to make the Saras a success. If the GOI is backing it and the support includes getting it western engines as own industry matures then it can be a success.

All of the aerospace players, anywhere in the world, rely on government support. It is a question of whether we think the local industry is worth supporting.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Mar 2019 16:24

be careful. this is why western designs with assured and proven logistic support are so popular and in widespread use.


just picking some fancy names off the internet, may not really be the best way to go

Antonov An-158 regional jet fleet is grounded

Posted on May 18th, 2018 by ES in Aerospace, Air Transport, MRO, Russia, Trending, Ukraine


Image
Atonov An-158 regional jet Cubana


One of the reasons given for the suspension of An-158 operations is the lack of availability of components from Russia and Ukraine (Dura-Ace/Wikipedia)
The aviation authorities of Cuba have ordered the grounding of the entire Antonov An-158 fleet operated by Cubana de Aviación, the Caribbean island nation’s flag carrier and the world’s only commercial operator of the type, according to publicly-available official notices.

In their resolution, the Cuban regulators explain that the grounding is the consequence of a number of problems associated with the operation of the Ukrainian-designed jet, including a shortage and unreliable delivery of component parts for the aircraft which are, to a great extent, produced in Russia.

The Antonov An-158 is a 100-seat regional jet, a stretched version of the An-148, which was designed and built in the Ukraine using many Russian components, in a project originally financed by a group of Russian banks. It was also a Russian lease company which organised a deal for the aircraft with Cuba. Against the difficult backdrop, cooperation between Russia and Ukraine remains fractured.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Mar 2019 16:40

chola wrote:
Austin wrote:
Both Boeing and Airbus are subsidised by their government via their Defence Wing of the company , Infact both accuse each other of being subsidised by their government as means of unfair competition :lol:



chetak wrote:Does anyone think that the saras has a future?? sure, its already being touted as the "ideal" plane for the forces.

there is a tremendous difference if the engines are western or russian. Difference between sitting on the ground and being up and about.



Chetak ji, it comes down to whether WE want to make the Saras a success. If the GOI is backing it and the support includes getting it western engines as own industry matures then it can be a success.

All of the aerospace players, anywhere in the world, rely on government support. It is a question of whether we think the local industry is worth supporting.


chola ji,

Let's not get jingoistic and simplistic.

Whoever it may be, a good, solid, dependable, reliable, safe and robust aircraft is required without unnecessary design flourishes and bells and whistles that bring nothing worthwhile to the project.

The job is to make a simple plane and then scale up from there. This critical objective seems to have escaped everyone. New planes are being built every day, all over the world and they fly successfully but something happens when it comes to India. Is it our much decried Indian crab syndrome??

We already know the saga of the engine and the decades it took, a motherless project, without leadership, and the intercine fights and the interminable politics.

Govt can support with money but it cannot produce talent out of thin air, especially when rampant groupism and rabid empire building takes away any will to succeed.

and chola ji, like the good boys that we are, let us stop this discussion here itself.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chola » 29 Mar 2019 17:00

^^^ Chetak ji, after re-reading what I wrote I guess I did get a bit jingoistic and simplistic. It is over my irritation that US, EU, Brazil, etc. support their Airbus, Boeing and Embraer but we have not. At least not to the same extent.

Saar, I respect and value your opinion very much so please discuss if you want to be continue. I would like to hear more. But only if you want.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 29 Mar 2019 17:31

chetak wrote:be careful. this is why western designs with assured and proven logistic support are so popular and in widespread use.


just picking some fancy names off the internet, may not really be the best way to go

Antonov An-158 regional jet fleet is grounded

Posted on May 18th, 2018 by ES in Aerospace, Air Transport, MRO, Russia, Trending, Ukraine


Image
Atonov An-158 regional jet Cubana


One of the reasons given for the suspension of An-158 operations is the lack of availability of components from Russia and Ukraine (Dura-Ace/Wikipedia)
The aviation authorities of Cuba have ordered the grounding of the entire Antonov An-158 fleet operated by Cubana de Aviación, the Caribbean island nation’s flag carrier and the world’s only commercial operator of the type, according to publicly-available official notices.

In their resolution, the Cuban regulators explain that the grounding is the consequence of a number of problems associated with the operation of the Ukrainian-designed jet, including a shortage and unreliable delivery of component parts for the aircraft which are, to a great extent, produced in Russia.

The Antonov An-158 is a 100-seat regional jet, a stretched version of the An-148, which was designed and built in the Ukraine using many Russian components, in a project originally financed by a group of Russian banks. It was also a Russian lease company which organised a deal for the aircraft with Cuba. Against the difficult backdrop, cooperation between Russia and Ukraine remains fractured.



I am aware of the issue with An-158 and this was due to dispute between Russia and Ukraine the issue was not with the aircraft itself per se but the Cuban fleet issue has now been resolved ....the problem was also with Cuba funding ......... Russia bankrolls their purchase by generous credit.

Western design that are successful like ATR or Dash series they wont sell and if they sell we cant afford to buy it .......all you end up do is with local assembly and try to put Make In India label but nothing to learn.

Plus we are in no position to jump start the industy to compete with even Antonov design much like the Western one ........yes even with funding these things takes decade to build and aviation industy is a decade long industy with ecosystem. The whole certification process is also a complex one

Civil Airline Industy are time sensitive and with HAL standards they wont last long in this field other than make Doors for A320 they have nothing to show. The rest of stuff they build for IAF comes at its own sweet time.

The only option is to buy out a good design already certified and flow for thousand of hours and something your pocket can afford along with its engine technology and make it in India 100 % atleast this should give us a good base for us to design something in the next 15 years

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Mar 2019 18:32

chola wrote:^^^ Chetak ji, after re-reading what I wrote I guess I did get a bit jingoistic and simplistic. It is over my irritation that US, EU, Brazil, etc. support their Airbus, Boeing and Embraer but we have not. At least not to the same extent.

Saar, I respect and value your opinion very much so please discuss if you want to be continue. I would like to hear more. But only if you want.


Brazil, argentina, spain etc, did they not have nazis loafing around their countries in the 1920s/1930s and later??

The Treaty of Versailles basically crippled Germany. The treaty had the effect of destroying Germany's economy and stifling its military. Germany also lost vital portions of land as a result of the treaty. In short, the Germans felt their economic and political survival depended on military success. Hence they moved out and set up in countries like spain, brazil, argentina, etc so that they could rebuild the military, specifically their airpower once again.

The aviation industries and infrastructure in spain, brazil, argentina etc would have been set up then because the germans were not allowed to do that in their own country and those industries and infrastructure slowly bloomed and blossomed thereafter. That's why europe has a solidly developed MIC even today.

Whereas, we had this socialist blood sucking family that nationalized everything in sight and gave birth to the putrid PSU culture and brought in this vote bank centric, ideologically bottle fed, uncompromising, extremist, entitled, reservation driven, spawned an utterly conscienceless and consequence immune, sheltered and pampered workforce, that comprised of the entire gamut of labor including all levels of management that was severely intellectually challenged because none would rock the boat, whether it was in the IAS, police, scientific, banking or industrial or even the educational arenas. Commies permeated all levels of society, authority and they became the final arbitrators of our entire existence.

This was hollow the base from which your engine and aircraft makers, shipbuilders, tank and gun industries, etc and indeed your entire modern MIC itself had to emerge.

To add to our woes, we had religious bigots, rolers and ropers, scheming goras from the USA, UK, russia, swines from pakistan who had a free run of our country and all of them just hoping to see it break up so that they could grab the pieces, balkanize the country and the people and quickly recolonize once again.

I am surprised that we even got as far as we did.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Mar 2019 18:53

Austin wrote:
chetak wrote:be careful. this is why western designs with assured and proven logistic support are so popular and in widespread use.


just picking some fancy names off the internet, may not really be the best way to go




I am aware of the issue with An-158 and this was due to dispute between Russia and Ukraine the issue was not with the aircraft itself per se but the Cuban fleet issue has now been resolved ....the problem was also with Cuba funding ......... Russia bankrolls their purchase by generous credit.

Western design that are successful like ATR or Dash series they wont sell and if they sell we cant afford to buy it .......all you end up do is with local assembly and try to put Make In India label but nothing to learn.

Plus we are in no position to jump start the industy to compete with even Antonov design much like the Western one ........yes even with funding these things takes decade to build and aviation industy is a decade long industy with ecosystem. The whole certification process is also a complex one

Civil Airline Industy are time sensitive and with HAL standards they wont last long in this field other than make Doors for A320 they have nothing to show. The rest of stuff they build for IAF comes at its own sweet time.

The only option is to buy out a good design already certified and flow for thousand of hours and something your pocket can afford along with its engine technology and make it in India 100 % atleast this should give us a good base for us to design something in the next 15 years


I know personally that the Do338 was offered to us lock, stock, and barrel, including IP, drawings, plant, machinery, production jigs, et al, way back in 1987.

The company was in some difficulties and it was being offered to us for a song.

we didn't have the common decency to even respond to them.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 29 Mar 2019 21:36

Chetak , It is not late even today to buy any good design Do338 ,An-158 or any other our finance can buy with every thing you mentioned and start the production in India .... let them incorporate any technology from RTA into the chosen design in terms of Cockpit ergo or any other which does not need any time consuming re-certification process. Over a period of time get it EASA certified and even ETOPS if need be this can go on in parallel while we use this bird in service.

If they try to reinvent the wheel they will miss the bus by another decade or two with not much tangible benefit from it.

chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Mar 2019 22:36

Austin wrote:Chetak , It is not late even today to buy any good design Do338 ,An-158 or any other our finance can buy with every thing you mentioned and start the production in India .... let them incorporate any technology from RTA into the chosen design in terms of Cockpit ergo or any other which does not need any time consuming re-certification process. Over a period of time get it EASA certified and even ETOPS if need be this can go on in parallel while we use this bird in service.

If they try to reinvent the wheel they will miss the bus by another decade or two with not much tangible benefit from it.


Austin ji,

I have been advocating what you are saying for many years now.

But our guys are insisting on reinventing the wheel. They see glory for themselves.

I can name names and tell you some hair raising incidents but this is a decent, family oriented forum and its also an open forum.

let's see, maybe they will come to their senses.

I still maintain that we have the required talent in India to do this and more but not in any one single lab or organisation.

we need to pool the available incountry talent and start from there.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 30 Mar 2019 19:54

I can hope better sense prevail , Perhaps we need an independent agency for Civil Aviation like ISRO to be more focussed on project then individuals ?

All Civil Aviation project can be handled by this orginisation ?


Nice video shows cockpit view of 787 during take off and well some previliged flight for some kids , 787 Cockpit is like space age stuff


chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 31 Mar 2019 12:16

Austin wrote:I can hope better sense prevail , Perhaps we need an independent agency for Civil Aviation like ISRO to be more focussed on project then individuals ?

All Civil Aviation project can be handled by this orginisation ?


Nice video shows cockpit view of 787 during take off and well some previliged flight for some kids , 787 Cockpit is like space age stuff

[youtubeW2P-vwGSMLU[/youtube]


ISRO never was, and never will be an independent regulatory entity. It simply cannot be because of conflict of interest issues.

It is solely dependant on the govt of the day for its funding, the direction of its efforts and also for its political protection and patronage.

Remember what happened when some illiterate clown in antrix, over stepped his bounds and entered into some illegal arrangement with some foreign company and the GoI had to pay huge compensation to that company after it lost the case in some international court.

Remember how the nambi narayan case played out and the shameful, passive as well as the inactively corrosive role of the govt at the center, driven as it was by its survival and vote bank instincts.

If some private space focussed company entered into business in India, why should ISRO regulate it??. Isn't such a role a serious conflict of interest??, especially when ISRO may occupy the same business space via its Antrix spinoff?? or even have the focus of the private company's business as one of its own core objectives??

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nandakumar » 31 Mar 2019 13:32

On the Antrix-Devas deal this is what I learnt. A caveat. I am not familiar with satellite based telecommunication systems. So take it for what it is worth. Apparently one of ISRO satellites had some spare capacity in a radio frequency that is not usable by the then 2G based mobile telephony companies. So there were no takers among the then Telcos. Remember back then, (2004-05 or thereabouts) mobile telephony was all about voice and using it for accessing data was more in the science fiction realm at least in India. Then along came a former ISRO employee who developed a technology for using this frequency for mobile based voice telephony. This was some kind of technology breakthroughs. So much so a company like Deutche Telekom was an early investor in the company through Devas' US subsidiary. By 2008 it became clear to people in the telecom industry this was potentially, a serious competitor with the added advantage of practically zero cost on spectrum. By then the 2G scam had broken out in all its ugly manifestations. So the likes of Airtel, RCom etc. began hawking this story as another spectrum scam among telecom beat correspondents in the media. One of them picked it up and got featured prominently. Rest is history. The truth of the matter is even if there had been a tender, none other than Devas would have entered the fray. For the simple reason that none of them would have known how to commercially exploit that particular frequency in a way that made business sense.


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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 02 Apr 2019 12:13

ANI news
More
SIA grounds "some of its nine" Boeing 787-10 planes after engine issues

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chola » 02 Apr 2019 12:25



Austin ji, thanks for posting. My heart aches for them. These are good people, Garima Sethi and her late pilot husband Bhavye Suneja. Boeing has toyed with lives and have blood on their hands.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Austin » 02 Apr 2019 21:20

chola wrote:


Austin ji, thanks for posting. My heart aches for them. These are good people, Garima Sethi and her late pilot husband Bhavye Suneja. Boeing has toyed with lives and have blood on their hands.


Agreed I felt very sad reading about Sethi lonely fight , She is a Brave Lady of Hindustan and my Salute and Respect for her.

Lion Air even refuses to talk about 3rd pilot in the cockpit who saved the day for MAX crew and pax just a day before the crash but no formal notings were made by these pilots that was considered critical enough to sound it to every one.

Boeing negligence goes far beyond criminal negligence in the 2 MAX crash case.


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