Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

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SRoy
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SRoy » 08 Aug 2020 21:52

The Bharat Bhushan guy is bullshitting, mischievously hinting and trying to pin the blame on the deceased pilot.

darshan
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby darshan » 08 Aug 2020 21:55

This airport should not have been allowing flights to land during bad conditions.

This days weather radars can tell you in advance if storms are headed your way or not.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 08 Aug 2020 22:32

It's easy to blame the pilots because they're dead. The flight data recorder should have all the info needed. The Mangalore accident in 2010 should have been a wake up call. The Ministry of Civil Aviation needs to be raked over hot coals and people need to be fired. 168 dead in 10 years is negligence and deserves nothing short of firing squad.

idan
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby idan » 08 Aug 2020 22:41

My assumption is this is a combination of bad weather (storm in the vicinity, wind shear etc), strong tail winds leading to higher than average landing speed, most importantly unstabilised approach and finally aquaplaning due to waterlogged runway after touchdown (and possibly failure of thrust reversal braking upon touchdown) led to runway excursion and steep drop from the table-top runway at Kozikhode. Preliminary analysis/playback of flight data from flight tracking websites show that the aircraft did not maintain at least one of the variables stable i.e., speed (out of speed, descent rate, vertical/lateral flight path) and as a result was not in stable landing configuration. Unstabilised approaches account for most approach and landing accidents.

Kozikhode runway 10-28 landing roll is 2860m; due to unstablised approach the pilots lost almost 1000m from the runway threshold. An approach should be stabilised by 1,000 feet above runway altitude. Otherwise, a go-around should be executed by the pilot. In the first instance the approach was stabilised for runway 28 but landing aborted probably due to weather in front, severe buffeting. They came back for the second attempt for runway 10. Sheer bad luck!

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chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 09 Aug 2020 00:18

It looks like a local sickular political party in malappuram district had a direct hand in getting the airport to kozhikode and even acted like it was their personal creation.

The original location of this airport was another city where flat land is available to build proper runways with associated safety areas.

the same sickular party insisted on haj flights from kozhikode, insisted on landing clearance for wide body aircrafts when all other official agencies fiercely cautioned against it because of safety issues.

the same party did not allow the expansion of this airport and opposed the acquisition of land for this purpose.

now, all of a sudden they are very very quiet.

this was an accident that was just looking for the time and weather to happen and the holes in the swiss cheese lined up perfectly on friday night.

too bad that the greedy politicos will, once again, get off scot free.

idan
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby idan » 09 Aug 2020 01:04

There are four airports in India with tabletop runways. They are at Kozhikode, Mangalore, Shimla and Pakyong (Sikkim). The Lengpui airport in Mizoram which is with the state government also has a tabletop runway. There are various countermeasures available today to arrest runway excursions.

It was sheer bad luck and a combination of factors that was not favourable. It happens but very unfortunate.

RIP bravehearts

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or Engineered Material Arresting System (EMAS) a bed of crushable cubes meant to collapse on impact to stop planes that may veer off course


chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 09 Aug 2020 01:47

It is being reported by @TimesNow that the DGCA overruled its own 2015 order banning the use of wide-bodied aircrafts at the Kozhikode Airport under pressure from IUML and the Kerala CM.

I really hope this is not true, but if it is, there should be hell to pay.

idan
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby idan » 09 Aug 2020 04:36

chetak wrote:
It is being reported by @TimesNow that the DGCA overruled its own 2015 order banning the use of wide-bodied aircrafts at the Kozhikode Airport under pressure from IUML and the Kerala CM.

I really hope this is not true, but if it is, there should be hell to pay.


B737 is narrow body jet and why should there be any problem with wide-bodied aircraft in table-tops if runway safety is improved with proper safety measures like engineered materials arresting system (EMAS).

This is India's newest table-top at Pakyong, Sikkim

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Last edited by idan on 09 Aug 2020 04:40, edited 1 time in total.

idan
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby idan » 09 Aug 2020 04:37

Unstable approach animation ILS Boeing 737 NG


chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 09 Aug 2020 06:23

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Haridas
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Haridas » 09 Aug 2020 08:26

Speaking to an AEB examiner in 1985 who at some tenure was instructor at AF Academy Dundigal, he said "we want cadets that can learn and adapt reasonably quickly (w.r.t the decision to pass/fail trainee pilots). Other wise learning flying the plane is so easy that given enough time we can even teach monkeys to fly them.."

IMVVHO I find it ludicrous that a civil airport should not be able to operate with perfect safely with 9000 ft long runway (that is perfectly good for a difficult aircraft like Mig-21 or SU-7. Most IAF fighter bases have just 9000 ft runway). Please look at most European civil runways that are shorter than 9000 ft and their safety record. Unless Indian citizens want airport and airlines run by monkeys.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby vera_k » 09 Aug 2020 08:40

Who makes the decision as to where the aircraft will land? Is the Captain authorized to divert to another airport if landing conditions are not ideal (i.e. daylight, no rain, no wind)?

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby idan » 09 Aug 2020 13:39

vera_k wrote:Who makes the decision as to where the aircraft will land? Is the Captain authorized to divert to another airport if landing conditions are not ideal (i.e. daylight, no rain, no wind)?


Pilot-in-command if the flight is airborne and in such emergency situations depending on the situational awareness.

Before departure when the flight is in planning stage and flight plans are being filed with the ANSP, the airline flight dispatcher together with the Captain agrees on a set of alternative landing airports in case of flight diversion for any reason, depending on loading, fuel availability, passenger emergency mid-air etc.

chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 09 Aug 2020 19:57

the ideal thing would have been to divert and possibly land at kannur which is approximately 60-70 miles away.

wait it out there without disembarking passengers, refuel and return to kozhikode.

why risk a let down into a known dicey runway under such severe and wet night time conditions that also included a significant tail wind component

then again, there are subtle management pressures on the crew to not divert because of cost and inconvenience to the company especially in companies like AIX, where the pilots are on contract and have nada job security
Last edited by chetak on 09 Aug 2020 20:23, edited 1 time in total.

darshan
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby darshan » 09 Aug 2020 20:08

chetak wrote:the ideal thing would have been to divert and possibly land at kannur which is approximately 60-70 miles away.

Only 70 miles? WTH? I'm scratching my head. Absolutely no reason for this flight to not have been diverted one hour out with advanced weather tracking capabilities this days.

chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 09 Aug 2020 20:28

darshan wrote:
chetak wrote:the ideal thing would have been to divert and possibly land at kannur which is approximately 60-70 miles away.

Only 70 miles? WTH? I'm scratching my head. Absolutely no reason for this flight to not have been diverted one hour out with advanced weather tracking capabilities this days.


yatra.com says

"The aerial distance from Kannur to Kozhikode is 82KM"

that's quite close by

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 09 Aug 2020 20:49

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5seO_MdCOc&feature=youtu.be

Editorial With Sujit Nair: Was Kozhikode Crash Result of Aviation Ministry's Negligence?



darshan
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby darshan » 10 Aug 2020 18:39

Still no word on how and when the decision to not divert the plane to another airport was made. One shouldn't have need to wait for flight black box for that. ATC should have already provided their side.

Kozhikode Air India Plane Crash: LDF, IUML Blame One Another For Failing To Get Land For Airport Runway Extension
https://swarajyamag.com/news-brief/kozh ... -extension

Vivek K
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vivek K » 10 Aug 2020 20:42

Some questions
a) Why was an EMAS (Engineering Material Arresting System) not provided. The Runway safety area beyond the runway end was inadequate - should have been a minimum of 1,000 feet and there is a non-standard 108 ft drop starting at 500 feet. See this vide https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U_bZVNIy_s. With the conditions that existed at the airport, the EMAS would have helped save all lifes.
b) The runway length was adequate. 737s land at Chicago MidWay airport that is barely 5,500 feet long under icy conditions. Wet conditions increase runway length requirement by 15%. There was still enough runway length for this. However, were the NAVAIDs working correctly? Did something make the pilots land long?
c) Did the plane experience some mechanical failure?
d) Was there water ponding on the runway surface that could have caused hydroplaning?
e) When a drop of 110 feet could be allowed, why was a barrier not built to stop the fall of an aircraft?
f) Why did the ATC make the plane circle? Visibility? If yes - then aircraft should have been diverted. Thunderstorms? Aircraft should have been diverted. Or did ATC know of some issues with ILS that would guide the pilot to land further from landing threshold than usual?

It seems very strange that the aircraft was made to circle and then allowed to land and it could not stop in time. If a parallel taxiway with a high speed exit had been provided, that may have helped. I would have though the the death of 158 people in Mangalore would have stopped the construction of "tabletop" airports. The comparisons with Nepal's airport are not justified. Nepal is constrained. This reeks of poor design and poor safety measures to mitigate those non-standard conditions.

Mollick.R
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Mollick.R » 11 Aug 2020 13:38

From Twitter//

Soldierathon @Soldierathon· 16h
This is how a dignified nations treat their loved ones.

Over 500 pilots from different airlines in India,1200 cabin crew & 2000 other aviation industry individuals participated in the final journey of Wing Cdr Deepak Sathe who died saving Air India passangers.
TributeHibiscusClapping hands sign



See the embedded video.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Mollick.R » 11 Aug 2020 13:42

DGCA suspends two senior executives of AirAsia India over safety violations
Updated: Aug 11, 2020 10:28 IST

Aviation regulator DGCA has suspended two senior executives of AirAsia India for a period of three months over “safety violations”, said a senior official on Tuesday.

The suspension was carried out a week ago, the official said.

In June this year, one of the AirAsia India’s former pilots -- who runs a YouTube channel called Flying Beast -- alleged violations of safety norms by the low-cost airline.

“We had issued a show cause notice to two AirAsia India executives -- Head of Operations Manish Uppal and Head of Flight Safety Mukesh Nema -- in June only. It has been decided now to suspend them for a period of three months,” the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) official said.

AirAsia India did not respond to PTI’s request for a statement on this matter.

Captain Gaurav Taneja, a popular Youtuber, tweeted on June 14 that he has been suspended by AirAsia India “for standing up for safe operations of an aircraft and its passengers”. On June 15, he posted a detailed video on YouTube titled “Reasons behind suspension from my pilot job”.

Taneja alleged in the video that the airline has asked its pilots to do 98 per cent of landings in “Flap 3” mode, which allows it to save fuel. He said if a pilot does not do 98 per cent of landings in “Flap 3” mode, the airline considers it a violation of its standard operating procedure (SOP).


https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/dgca-suspends-two-senior-executives-of-airasia-india-over-safety-violations/story-TDCBjGuSatjqofIHoR4JxJ.html

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Shameek » 19 Aug 2020 04:32

Simulation of the recent tragedy.


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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vips » 22 Aug 2020 05:29

Adanis close to acquiring GVK’s 51% in Mumbai International Airport.

The tussle between Adani Group and GVK Group over control of Mumbai airport seems to be heading towards a resolution with the former proposing to acquire a majority stake in Mumbai International Airport (MIAL).

According to sources close to the development, Adani Group could acquire a controlling 51 per cent stake in the airport. Preliminary discussions have taken place between the two sides to end the dispute which may lead to GVK exiting the prestigious Mumbai airport venture, sources said.


Encouraging and welcome news as the Adanis will be no doubt set a aggressive timeline to construct the Navi Mumbai Airport and also likely enhance capacity in the first phase itself which the financially down in the dumps GVK group would not have been able to.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby sumsumne » 24 Aug 2020 20:15

Tata Group likely to submit bid for Air India this month

Now, as per a report published in a financial daily, the Tata Group has already started due diligence and could submit it close to the official deadline at the end of this month.

https://www.newindianexpress.com/business/2020/aug/15/tata-group-likely-to-submit-bid-for-air-india-this-month-2183672.html

Looks like it is a done deal? I am wondering how the Tata Group will manage Air India post acquisition? Will they merge Vistara and Air Asia with Air India and AI Express? Looks like some consolidation is required....any comments?

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 24 Aug 2020 22:48

sumsumne wrote:Tata Group likely to submit bid for Air India this month

Now, as per a report published in a financial daily, the Tata Group has already started due diligence and could submit it close to the official deadline at the end of this month.

https://www.newindianexpress.com/business/2020/aug/15/tata-group-likely-to-submit-bid-for-air-india-this-month-2183672.html

Looks like it is a done deal? I am wondering how the Tata Group will manage Air India post acquisition? Will they merge Vistara and Air Asia with Air India and AI Express? Looks like some consolidation is required....any comments?


TATA won't merge AI with Vistara, Singapore Airlines is no longer interested in working with them on AI unlike the previous attempt at regaining AI that was scuttled by politics. It will be good for AI to go back home to TATA.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 24 Aug 2020 23:02

Won't the baboos complain about "Single-bidder situation" and scuttle the deal if there are no other bids besides that of Tata?

Tata will probably sell its stake in either Vistara and/or Air Asia if this goes through. Running three airlines in India is insanity, especially in the current tough times.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 24 Aug 2020 23:32

nachiket wrote:Won't the baboos complain about "Single-bidder situation" and scuttle the deal if there are no other bids besides that of Tata?

Tata will probably sell its stake in either Vistara and/or Air Asia if this goes through. Running three airlines in India is insanity, especially in the current tough times.


Most likely they'll sell Air Asia stake -hopefully the baboons will be kept away from this one

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 14 Sep 2020 10:42

The continuing trials (of perseverance) of Cpt. Amol Yadav, to build his transport plane...

Sobering read...

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Can you help this Indian make aviation history?

'This project started with my mom mortgaging her mangalsutra.' 'I have been successfully keeping my dream alive by mortgaging my brother's house.'

If 15 million Indians decide to contribute just one rupee each, (yes you tread it right; just one rupee), Captain Amol Shivaji Yadav, who has built an indigenous six-seater airplane can finish the second mandatory test flight at 2,000 feet after which, in about six months, his company Thrust Aircraft Company can manufacture 100 airplanes in about an year.

If that wouldn't make aviation history in India by an Indian, what will?

"My dream of making airplanes in India, by an Indian, is at stake for me," says the 44-year-old ex-jet Airways pilot, who has built the TAC003 on the terrace of his house in Kandivali, north west Mumbai.

After spending more than 19 years to just get the permission to fly and about Rs 6 crore (Rs 60 million) of his and his family's hard-earned money, Captain Yadav is struggling to get another Rs 15 million to complete the 2,000 feet test flight by maneuvering the aircraft at that altitude as per Director General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) norms. "I just need about one-and-a-half crore rupees; if I have it, I will just go ahead and finish it off tomorrow," Captain Yadav tells Prasanna D Zore/Rediff.com when asked how prepared he is for this second test and the hurdle he needs to cross to do it.


How are you managing the funds? Is that a big challenge?

I have not been getting any funds. I have received nothing. I have received no help from nobody. As simple and straightforward as that!

How much have you spent on your first test flight?
We have spent about Rs 6 crore till today, together. It's all my money, my family, my friends.

No help from either the state government or the Union government?
Nobody has helped yet, except three gentlemen: one Mr Dinesh, Mr Kamlakar and Mr Lalit Kale.




If you want to contribute towards helping an Indian create aviation history, you can contact Captain Amol Shivaji Yadav at 9320032733.


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