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Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 12 Jan 2015 03:50
by Vayutuvan
KJo: A reply in nukkad.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 15 Jan 2015 16:45
by Sachin
Forum for IT Employees files petition on TCS layoff
The petition was filed by the forum on behalf of TCS employees. However, no employee working in India’s largest IT exporter signed in the petition.
....
The employees are scared that TCS will cut their financial benefits and blacklist them, so they have not signed in the petition,” said an active member of the forum.
....
To a question, Sripada, Deputy Labour Commissioner, said: “I have received a petition from the forum of IT employees today on TCS layoff. As the letter is under scrutiny, I would not like to comment more on the matter or any course of action. As a principle of natural justice, we need to hear both the parties. We will send a notice to the company seeking their version.”

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 16 Jan 2015 05:18
by kenop
KJo wrote:
RamaY wrote:^ I don't think INFY is giving every employee 100% of their salary is bonus. I think what they are saying is they are going to pay 100% of variable pay which often is about 20-40% of total pay. Often they pay only a part of variable pay after discounting it based on individual performance.

Am I wrong?


I didn't go into the details since I had to do other things, but I told my wife that the 100% bonus always comes with 100000000 caveats.


Sure, bonus watch on the companies helps understand state of the companies.
INFY seems to be doing good on this front and their salary structure had larger bonus component as compared to others at col level.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 16 Jan 2015 07:52
by RamaY
^

Saar, the variable pay depends on level. So 90% of the employees (up to 50L package) will not have more than 40% as variable pay. These guys will at best get 100% of their variable pay, which means they get all of their salary for first time.

Unless I read the article wrong, nobody is getting 100% of their salary (the original gross pay) as bonus.

Let's assume INFY's payroll is 40-50% of their annual costs. Giving 100% of bonus (over and above regular gross pay) would mean giving at least 40% of annual sales ($8B??) as bonus. Which is impossible.

If you are an average munna with say 20L package consisting of 12L fixed pay and 8L variable pay, this year you are getting full 8L variable pay. In a normal year the average munna would get hardly 4-5L of his 8L variable pay because only 10% will get excellent rates (70% get avg rate with 60% variable pay and 20% get needs improvement rating with 20% of variable pay).

That's what I think. But I could be wrong....

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 16 Jan 2015 08:00
by kenop
RamaY wrote:^
Unless I read the article wrong, nobody is getting 100% of their salary (the original gross pay) as bonus.

Most of the news headlines are talking about bonus whereas it should be about variable pay.
No great thing if they pay the full variable. Just spin the media.
Noticed that TCS also gave ads on TV last few days. Looks more media management than business management.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 16 Jan 2015 19:30
by Sachin
ToI has the below report. But did not see this in any other English news paper.
Madras high court stays termination of TCS employee
CHENNAI: In a case which may open a floodgate of litigation, the Madras high court on Tuesday restrained software major TCS from retrenching an employee who has been issued termination by the company.
.....
She is a 'workman' within the meaning of Section 2(s) of the Industrial Disputes Act, 1947, as her main duties and responsibilities are technical and clerical in nature.
.....
According to Section 25 of the Industrial Disputes Act, the principle is last come, first go. TCS has not published any seniority list as required under the rules framed under the Act and it has not given any notice of retrenchment as required under the Act.
.....
TCS does not propose to pay 15 days of wages for every completed year of service as compensation which too is mandatory under the Act, she said, adding, "in any event, termination is not valid or justifiable."


The comments are also worth a read.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 17 Jan 2015 11:44
by Virendra
The 100% bonus thing is a blatant false information .. or a subtle & deliberate twist ?
Variable Pay is a part of the total CTC 9Cost to company) which is nothing but your annual package.
How much of that variable you get (all of it / half of it / none of it) depends on many factors a few of which are :
--Associate's billability/deployment (being on bench hurts that)
--Company's financial performance
Till all is fine it is usually 100 % in all the major Companies (US based or India based) that I've worked in or heard of.
But the main thing to note here is that the Variable Pay is a part of the Annual Package and not a Bonus.

Regards,
Virendra

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 17 Jan 2015 12:08
by Virendra
Sachin wrote:According to Section 25 of the Industrial Disputes Act, the principle is last come, first go. TCS has not published any seniority list as required under the rules framed under the Act and it has not given any notice of retrenchment as required under the Act.

This in particular is the talking point in my office right now :D

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 17 Jan 2015 20:09
by Sachin
Virendra wrote:The 100% bonus thing is a blatant false information .. or a subtle & deliberate twist ?
Variable Pay is a part of the total CTC 9Cost to company) which is nothing but your annual package.

The variable pay itself is another (poor) joke. I don't think any IT company just gives the pay scale in a very direct manner. The variable pay at the best should be considered as a bonus, which is not guaranteed. Then there are other schemes in which part of the salary is nothing but an interest free loan (with the company "owning" the asset which you have purchased). I have repeated this often, the various schemes followed by the IT companies seems to be pretty shady. Again people are all happy, when things go smooth. It is upto the IT company employees to be smart and understand the pay packages better.

This in particular is the talking point in my office right now

The laws by which the IT companies are governed have to be clearly stated and understood. Till now, no body has a clue on how the employment rules are within the IT company. And there also certain exemptions given to companies working out of Export Zones. Even in the commie heaven Kerala they have export zones where certain labour rules do NOT apply. For the IT company employees, the first priority is to understand what are the laws and rules which govern their work life (and not just believe in their own company policies).

I am reminded of Nawab Rajendran, a social activist (of the old variety) who used to strongly say that every citizen should know the rules and laws by which they are governed. When more people know about the rules and laws, they would then in turn demand better laws which benefit people much more.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 18 Jan 2015 01:20
by Vayutuvan
EZ companies have lot of oversight from EZ governing board which is usually chaired by a senior IAS officer or of that level. There is also a tax risk the employer bears WRT certain perks given to employees. Sometimes companies have paid tax arrears and fines to the Govt. when some perks were not allowed to be tax free and the employee(s) have long left the company. In the end the employer is liable.

All these days, India had been a sellers market. That is a result protecting domestic industry for them to get off the ground. Now that has been (partly?) achieved, along with loosening of controls, there needs to be a good consumer movement similar to the one started by Ralph Nader in the US. Consumer watchdogs and publications similar to "Consumer Reports" will also go a long way in balancing the power between the consumers and producers.

The rub is that this will not work as well in labour markets as there are always people hungry for work in a capitalist system.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 18 Jan 2015 05:09
by Suraj
Nasscom sees no significant change in IT growth projections
The National Association of Software and Service Companies (Nasscom) president R Chandrashekhar today said they expected no significant change in the Indian software industry’s growth projections made for the current year.

It may be recalled that the industry body of the country's IT and ITeS companies had earlier made a forecast of 13-15 per cent increase in Indian software exports during 2014-15. It said the software exports would rise to about $ 99 billion in the current year from an estimated $ 86 billion in 2013-14.

When asked if these projections needed a revisit in the light of the third quarter numbers announced recently by Indian software giants like Tata Consultancy Services (TCS ) and Infosys, Chandrashekhar said they don’t envisage any significant change in their projections.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 19 Jan 2015 16:29
by Virendra
Talking of laws and rules, there's one more thing that I find odd.
Why is it that changing your employer within 5 years of service means your Gratuity gets lapsed?
IT guys who usually switch within 5 yrs are perhaps most hit by this condition.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 20 Jan 2015 11:11
by Sachin
Virendra wrote:Why is it that changing your employer within 5 years of service means your Gratuity gets lapsed?

Gratuity as per my understanding is a kind of "long service" reward. I.e a small bonus for staying put with the company for so long. And the minimum requirement of serving 5 years, I guess is the rule. In other establishments generally people worked at the same place till they retire, so gratuity was pretty much a given. The gratuity amount percentage also keeps changing after every 5 years of service.

Mean while at TCS...
We need to relook how we handled the issue of layoffs, says N Chandrasekaran

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 20 Jan 2015 11:23
by Singha
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-2 ... pdial.html

one of the 3 founders ameya pathak is a family friend. I guess he is camping at the local bmw dealership today :)

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 20 Jan 2015 11:50
by Raja Bose
Singha wrote:http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-20/twitter-said-to-pay-30-million-for-india-mobile-startup-zipdial.html

one of the 3 founders ameya pathak is a family friend. I guess he is camping at the local bmw dealership today :)


Why bummer? Why not Maserati? :mrgreen: Is this a 3 guy startup or do they have more folks?

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 20 Jan 2015 13:14
by Singha
they have a bunch of employees. one founder is a american expat who runs a lot of fm's around the world in bq times. around 5 yrs old co.
you can see pix here https://www.facebook.com/valwagoner?fref=ts

ameya wears asics nimbus shoes to office :D but his wife who is my wife's classmate has escalated steeply from a start 2 yrs ago and sunday clocked 2:09 in scmm hm.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 21 Jan 2015 00:39
by SaiK
IMF says only US economy will do better in 2015

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 21 Jan 2015 12:03
by Virendra
What about the theory of recurring recession every 8 years - 1992 - 2000 - 08 - 16 ??

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 26 Jan 2015 23:09
by Neshant
interestingly the bible has a passage which says debtors are to have their debts forgiven every 7 years.

a very wise thing as nobody can keep another in bondage indefinitely.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 29 Jan 2015 22:56
by negi
Linkedin has a series of articles about IBM planning to lay off about 100k people in next few months. :shock:

In India some of my friends who are or were in IBM say that IBM has long stopped disclosing it's official headcount , it is easier for them to fire people that way. :oops:

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 29 Jan 2015 22:59
by KJo
Indian IT is fully ingrained into the world. India is no longer exempt from bad stuff happening around the world.
Just sit back and enjoy the ride. My prediction is that the folks who joined IT just for the easy money will get weeded out and Indian IT will go up several notches in quality. This happened in the US and will happen in India.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 29 Jan 2015 23:38
by SBajwa
by Vivek_a
a. Where do I get access to these Hadoop clusters in the first place. AWS is okay for a company but you and I cannot afford that as a hobby project.


Get a cheap dell machine, install linux and then virtually install 2-3 machines on in it. Then create hadoop cluster on these virtual machines (I have done it for testing).

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 29 Jan 2015 23:44
by negi
^ You guys should check out Openstack's Sahara .

http://docs.openstack.org/developer/sah ... rview.html

Basically it can spawn Hadoop clusters on demand of requested version and specification.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 30 Jan 2015 18:04
by schowdhuri
KJo wrote:Indian IT is fully ingrained into the world. India is no longer exempt from bad stuff happening around the world.
Just sit back and enjoy the ride. My prediction is that the folks who joined IT just for the easy money will get weeded out and Indian IT will go up several notches in quality. This happened in the US and will happen in India.


I was in the US when the dotcom bust happened, and was happy because I thought all the absolutely useless people who had got into IT during the dotcom boom would be weeded out. Did not happen that way. Lots of useless people remained, lots of good people lost their jobs. Saw the same thing repeat several times, though on a lesser scale, and am a much wiser person now.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 30 Jan 2015 21:08
by SBajwa
Anybody that is not from Math, Engineering, Computer Science background should not be educated to design/develop/model/modify/etc CODE or any time of Computer Systems nor they should be given a job in IT field.

There are some things that I just don't get about Indian IT.

like.

first you get into top Engineering college and became engineers and then you get an MBA and become a manager?

First you get a degree in Psychology/History/Social Science/Geography and then you take couple of courses in web design/programming language and you think you are an expert in Java?

There are no standards for IT education. Punjab government has semi-literate people (who just know how to click and read punjabi newspapers) hired as "Computer Teachers"

99% of people in India think that once you are a computer engineer you can fix all PCs.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 30 Jan 2015 22:06
by ArmenT
SBajwa wrote:Anybody that is not from Math, Engineering, Computer Science background should not be educated to design/develop/model/modify/etc CODE or any time of Computer Systems nor they should be given a job in IT field.

Not true. Some of the best programmers and architects that I've ever worked with were not CS graduates. Some of the best were graduates of physics, psychology, linguistics, music, mech. engineering, couple of high school grads, even a qualified lawyer and an actor! The one thing that all these people had in common was that they all got into programming due to various circumstances, found out that they liked it, and decided to study on their own in their spare time and built up their skills. The CS grads in my dept. are all junior level programmers. Two of them are Indians with masters degrees in CS. One is a java-only jockey and she doesn't want to work with any other language + she isn't very good at practical java, so I only let her do internal UI development. The other one gets to do testing.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 31 Jan 2015 09:55
by Sachin
SBajwa wrote:Anybody that is not from Math, Engineering, Computer Science background should not be educated to design/develop/model/modify/etc CODE or any time of Computer Systems nor they should be given a job in IT field.

You are generalising too much. I myself am a Arts Graduate with 49% marks. Started learning computer programming (as a hobby) in 10th standard. In the industry for nearly 15+ years now. Have been doing the same type of designing/coding/testing as the next door B.Tech, MCA dude does. Have seen PUC educational level folks doing excellent job on MS products (like VB, .NET etc.), and been in the IT industry again for 10+ years. Have also seen a B.Tech Computer Science from a college in TN who openly stated that he does not know how to draw a simple flow chart, and explain the logic in a step-by-step mode.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 31 Jan 2015 10:04
by negi
Degrees these days are used mostly for filtering applicants not evaluating them .

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 31 Jan 2015 15:06
by Comer
I too don't think degree matters that much.
But programming is not just about algorithms and logic. You would need to know underlying architecture, including kernel. It would be easier if one comes through the CS degree but can always picked up outside the academics.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 01 Feb 2015 16:41
by Comer
That is post facto rationalization. Not a lot of people land up on the specific domain they like or wish for. Your 2% could be not relevant to me as my 2% is. But we had to learn those 4% in college.
Again, a UI designer or programmer atleast need to have a basic understanding of interrupts and page faults to do his job effectively. An understanding of underlying file system and network would be really useful in for a guy writing client/server or stored procedure. The decision to use stored procedure or a script on the client side requires such understanding.
and yes learning all of the subsystems mentioned in your post gives a programmer an overall picture.
Abstraction helps in coding or designing fast. But that shouldn't be a reason to understand the underlying mechanism.
Sometimes I think the software design or programming is undersold. It can be really complex and requires a very good understanding of the underlying system.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 01 Feb 2015 17:03
by Singha
There is no silo anymore. In future same guy will have to code/port/maintain the entire stack from device driver to application.
That's the way startups are going. Big cos will.also follow.

The versatile ppl will grab or create the best opportunities and lead things.
This is already the reality.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 01 Feb 2015 17:08
by Comer
Agree. The layering and opaqueness are not excuses anymore. If you want to write a call back, write the invocation too!

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 01 Feb 2015 18:36
by subhamoy.das
Software is a machine that controls real world work flows. In the real world people gets work done by exchanging messages among them selves using paper, phone , email etc. In real work machines gets work done by exchanging messages among them selves over network. Software simply takes over this control. People who are good at software design are usually the ones who are able to grasp complex real work flows in terms of the worker roles, work items, tasks performed by worker roles etc. Implementing them in software is a piece of cake. After all the most challenging aspect of software design is to model the real world.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 01 Feb 2015 19:27
by Comer
IMHO, the God is in the details. Just the exchanging messages over network involves several selection decisions, design decisions which could affect the design of the software at either end. And several design choices don't have strict equivalences in the real world.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 02 Feb 2015 03:33
by Rishirishi
Our company outsourced SAP and is now on the recieving end. They have just realizeed the real costs :rotfl:

But discussion has already started to move out of SAP. what if any options are there?? Everyone seems to be thinking of could.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 02 Feb 2015 08:28
by csaurabh
About 90% of those working in Indian IT industry have no interest in software development or computer science. They only want a good job with money.

That, is the real problem.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Posted: 02 Feb 2015 08:36
by Rahul M
plz start a new thread.