Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Aug 2018 00:59

Add equestrian and TT to the list of sports where we have surprise medals. Two silvers in equestrian is a surprise indeed since I didn't even know we fielded a team; in reality Fouad Mirza ran the Japanese close for gold and narrowly missed the win. Mirza's ancestor Ali Asghar moved to India in the early 1800s from Iran and their family has been involved in horse breeding for some time, it seems.

Stunning performance in TT as well. So the Japanese team was not full strength, but that's their own damn fault - their average ranking still made them 2nd seed, higher than SoKo, Taiwan and others. We are #6. We play SoKo in the semifinals. There's a chance there too. Sharath Kamal can be happy - 15 years of driving the Indian team and now he finally has an Asiad medal. The only teams to ever win TT medals before are the usual suspects - China, Japan, SoKo, NoKo, HKG (China discards), Singapore (also China discards) and Taiwan. First time anyone outside the East Asian den has a TT medal.

In terms of overall medals and gold count, the games have been disappointing so far, since some traditional sources didn't do well (kabaddi, squash individual events etc). But the wins have been really good wins. Both field event golds were authoritative, with Tejinder winning shot put throwing 20.75m compared to 19.5m for silver. And Chopra throwing 88.1m in javelin for gold, while silver was 82.2m. It's great to see us podium repeatedly in in TFTA track events (400m and below) instead of just SDRE running events (800m and higher). Dutee Chand's kick in 100m was fun to watch - exciting to see an Indian out in front in a continental 100m final and missing out on gold by a proverbial whisker to Nigerian fakes. Good luck to her in 200m.

Athletics has not just the mens and women's 4x400m relays but also a MIXED relay. We have a strong chance there - Mohammed Anas, Ayyasamy Dharun, Hima Das and Nirmala Sheoran between them have top 4 finishes in mens and womens events. Our main African competitors don't have the balance we have - the Qataris have men but not women, while Bahrain have women but not men.

Neeraj Chopra remains the only real Tokyo 2020 medal prospect in track and field. He's gone up from 86.5 to 88.1 in a year and half. If he can push his peak up to 90m, then given his ability to peak at big event finals, he can win a World or Olympic medal. At 20, he has a minimum 2, potentially 3 Olympics to do it in. He's well past the level of having to prove anything at continental level - he's won SAF Games, CWG, AG all by 6-10 meters.

Javelin Gold to Bronze range in recent Olympics:
2016 : gold 90.3m, bronze 85.3m
2012 : gold 84.5m, bronze 83.3m
2008 : gold 90.5m, bronze 86.1m
2004 : gold 86.5m, bronze 84.4m
2000 : gold 90.1m, bronze 88.6m

As you can see, with 88.1m, he'd have failed to medal in only one of the last 5 Olympics, and would have won two of them. Only in 2000, with the legend Zelezny, Backley and Makarov all on form, would 88m fail to win an Olympic medal.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Aug 2018 01:33

How Gopichand ensured India didn't lose Dutee Chand

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 28 Aug 2018 02:30

The target 16 gold will not be achieved I think. While wrestling and shooting were at par, boxing and weightlifting were definitely below par and the along with Kabaddi the main reason for missing the mark.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Aug 2018 02:44

We'd have been much closer to target except for the Nigerian scam inflicted upon us

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 28 Aug 2018 07:38

Today’s schedule

ARCHERY:

Compound Women's Team Final: India vs Korea (11:15 AM IST)

Compound Men's Team Final: India vs Korea (12:05 PM IST)

ATHLETICS:

Women's Hepthalon: Swapna Barman, Purnima Hembram (7:30 AM IST onwards)

Women's 200m Qualification: Hima Das, Dutee Chand (8:15 AM IST onwards)

Women's Javelin Throw: Annu Rani (5:55 PM IST)

Men's 800m Final: Jinson Johnson, Manjit Singh (6:10 PM IST)

Women's 5000m Final: Suriya Loganathan, Sanjivani Baburao Jadhav (6:20 PM IST)

Men's 45x400m Relay Final: India (7:15 PM IST)

BADMINTON:

Women's Singles Final: PV Sindhu vs Tai Tzuying (Chinese Taipei) (11:40 PM IST)

BOXING:

Women's Feather (57kg) Quarterfinals: Sonia Lather vs Jo Son Hwa (North Korea) (1:00 PM IST)

Women's Light (60kg) Quarterfinals: Pavitra vs Hasanah Huswatun (Indonesia) (1:45 PM IST)

BRIDGE:

Mixed Pair Qualification (8:00 AM IST onwards)

Men's Pair Qualification (8:30 AM IST onwards)

Women's Pair Qualification (8:30 AM IST)

CYCLING:

Women's Keirin: Deborah, Sonali Chanu (7:30 AM IST onwards)

Women's Team Pursuit: India (7:48 AM IST onwards)

EQUESTRIAN:

Jumping Individual and Team: Kaevaan Kevic Setalvad, Vhetan Reddy Nakula, Zahan Kevic Setalvad (6:30 AM IST)

HOCKEY:

Men's Pool A match: India vs Sri Lanka (2:30 PM IST)

KURASH: (Starts at 12:30 PM)

Men's 66kg: Jatin

Men's 66kg: Jacky Gahlot

Men's +90kg: Aswin Chandran Pandari, Parikshit Kumar

Women's 52kg: Malaprabha Yallappa Jadhav, Pincky Balhara

SEPAKTAKRAW:

Women's Quadrant Preliminary Group B match: India vs Japan (12:30 PM IST)

SQUASH:

Women's Team Pool B match: India vs Thailand (8:30 AM IST)

Women's Team Pool B match: India vs Indonesia (5:00 PM IST)

Men's Team Pool B match: India vs Qatar (2:30 PM IST)

TABLE TENNIS: (Starts at 8:30 AM IST)

Men's Team and Women's Team Semifinals and Finals

VOLLEYBALL:

Men's: India vs Pakistan (11:00 AM IST).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Aug 2018 07:47

When the javelin design changed for better range safety?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Aug 2018 07:49

Singha wrote:When the javelin design changed for better range safety?

Mid 1980s. Chopra's current coach Uwe Hohn is the all time record holder, as a former GDR athlete. After he threw 104m, it became a range safety concern, and I believe they moved the CoG forward to have it fall sooner.

disha · Post by **disha** » 28 Aug 2018 09:40

^Slight correction on Javelin changes. Range safety was secondary. What was primary was that several Javelin throws were landing flat and it was left to the discretion of the referee to call the throw as valid or not and if it was valid then the distance.

Hence the CG was moved forward by 4 cm and the javelins started landing on their points as intended. This change was already approved by the athletics congress (or confederation) prior to the 1984 LA Olympics. However few weeks before that Uwe Hohn crossed the 100m mark (which was imminent anyway) and landed 104m.

Since right after the above landmark event (or world record event) the change in javelin design came through in a major sporting event, the myth spread that it was a range safety issue primarily. That was not the case. Remember the manufacturers need time to change the design in time for a major sporting event.

Note that because of the design change, the records are 'restarted' and hence in some way Uwe's record is now an 'eternal world record'.

On a different note, my understanding is that the Javelin throwers peak in late 20s. So if Niraj is already throwing 88+ lengths consistently it is quite possible that his best is yet to come. His next goal is to consistently throw 90m in time for Olympics. If he can do that, for the next two olympics/world championships he will be a force to reckon with.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 28 Aug 2018 09:54

Supratik wrote:Most likely they have been given citizenship.

The IOA rules for representing a country are that you have to be a citizen (implied that you have ethnic/ family ties though that is disregarded)
and not represented your previous country for 3 years. The 2nd condition is also often waived if it can be shown that the country of your birth
has not paid you, disregards gender equality etc etc. It is buying medals - pure and simple. Qatar and Bahrain have made a mockery of the ideals
of the games. IMO this is one area where we can support the efforts of countries like China to stop this practice.

I wonder if Messi, Ronaldo etc will represent Qatar in the next FIFA world cup.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 28 Aug 2018 10:40

Our average no of medals in the last 3 Asian Games is 57. The average no of Gold + Silver in the last 4 AG is 26. (Bronze medals vary widely depending on the no of events and weather both losing semi finalists get bronze).
We should just about meet both numbers, which implies no significant improvement - relative to the rest of Asia, in the last 16 years.

One reason is that we are serious competitors in events that comprise barely 20% of all medals. We do win medals in 50% of the events in Shooting, Boxing, Freestyle wrestling, Women's track, Archery, Tennis, Squash, Kabaddi & Hockey. These events have 75 gold out of 460+ on offer.
That gives a potential 75 medals (since most events have 1 medal per country). We will get 38 odd medals (or over 50% of the medals on offer)
in these events. It is very difficult to improve on those numbers. Medal count can go up if we target new sports.
Adding to this is badminton, where we can target 3 medals in the 7 events on offer. (so 41 medals from 82 `core events).

The new sports that can be relatively easy (talent base and eco-system available and significant funds not required are):

Judo/Karate/Wushu/Taekwondo = 55 Gold. Often a single win can get a bronze (usually just 2 wins required, of which one is against a `beginner'
country with a far lower standard and population base than India).
If we simply enter the following events with a reasonably trained and fit team (e.g. from the services), using existing infrastructure, we can look at Yachting (5 of 10 events), Water Polo & Triathlon together have 10 events we haven't even entered in.
Diving and Sepak Takraw (16 medals) need less infrastructure and have barely 8 countries participating.

That's another 81 events in which we can aspire for a medal.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Aug 2018 11:05

A very good analysis there, Deans. This is what I've been getting at, both at CWG and AG. We simply aren't 'playing the game' (pun intended) effectively enough to goose up our numbers. China aren't topping the tally because of being enormously better athletically. They look at where the easy medals are, and reap as many as they can, with sufficiently trained and motivated people in a range of sports.

Almost a quarter of our contingent is team sports members who collectively can generate 10-12 medals in total. Team sports is like running a machine with many moving parts. To win, several games have to be played, with many players having to play together, over several hours , all for ONE medal. That's a waste of effort and resources. Most of our medals are going to come in a wide swath of individual sports where we just need to bear 1-2 weak teams just to win a medal.

Indonesia has 22 golds. More than a third is from a sport called pencak silat. That one sport has SIXTEEN golds, and I'll bet no one on BRF even knows what that sport is (I don't). In comparison, OUR sport contribution, kabaddi, has just one team event. If we want to reap medals, we need 10-20 different medal events of sports of our creation, not one medal.

We're doing sort of well so far - bronze in sepak takraw, 3 bronzes in wushu, 2 silvers in equestrian... even in marquee events we are beating the Chinese. Dutee Chand beat reigning AG and Asian champion Wei Yongli to silver in 100m .

Added: Ugh, ANOTHER silver, in women's team compound bow archery. Lost to SoKo. The mens team also faces SoKo in the final. They better win .

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 28 Aug 2018 12:49

Men's team also won silver saar

interesting part is the score was level 229-229 not sure how they decide when the scores are level

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Aug 2018 12:51

Sindhu's on her way to a silver as usual too.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 28 Aug 2018 12:52

Silver is not a bad result, Koreans are very strong at archery.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Aug 2018 12:55

Bart S wrote:Silver is not a bad result, Koreans are very strong at archery.

This was compound bow, and we were the defending champions, not them.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 28 Aug 2018 13:00

Sindhu gets silver medal

21-13 21-16

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 28 Aug 2018 13:03

Suraj wrote:
Bart S wrote:Silver is not a bad result, Koreans are very strong at archery.
This was compound bow, and we were the defending champions, not them.

229-229

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Aug 2018 13:11

Yes the men initially won 229-227, then someone joker recounted everything and made it 229-229 and forced a tiebreaker shoot, which also ended 19-19, and then they counted all the 10s and the Koreans had one more of them. Incredibly bad way to lose.

Having encountered such a situation in a different sport while in the lead (but succeeded in retaining it), IMHO this situation doesn't benefit the leading side - they have dropped their mental intensity thinking they won, and have to scramble to regain focus. The trailing side is still desperate for a second life and glad to grab the result of someone else's error . The event should have stopped at 229-227 for us.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 28 Aug 2018 13:28

braaanj medal in Table tennins mens only Kamal seems to be the guy trying to keep everything afloat and he is not young by any means(36 years) salute him

M_Joshi · Post by **M_Joshi** » 28 Aug 2018 18:19

Gold Medal to Manjit Singh in Men's 800 m. Leaving behind imported Qataris & Baharanis. Johnson getting a Silver in the race.

chola · Post by **chola** » 28 Aug 2018 19:06

M_Joshi wrote:Gold Medal to Manjit Singh in Men's 800 m. Leaving behind imported Qataris & Baharanis. Johnson getting a Silver in the race.

Yes! Top two and beating the imports for good measure.

Agreed with having some imported blacks and goras to raise level of everyone.

But dismay by Japan fielding Africans. If this becomes a trend and everyone with money simply rents out a bunch of phoreners then nobody really advances.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 28 Aug 2018 19:28

Bahrain gets Gold in mixed 800m race. India silver again

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Aug 2018 19:39

The Japanese 'blacks' are 'hafus', usually children of Japanese mother and black father. They aren't imported fakes like Bahraini and Qatari. Let me summarize why the ME Africans are fake, since these citizenship laws apply to BOTH Bahrain and Qatar:
* No citizenship by birth in either place
* Citizenship by descent only thru father
* Naturalization requires 25 years of unbroken residency with gaps of <6 months, PLUS administrative approval from Emir. This in turn means basically no one gets naturalized.

Yet, they selectively put aside all requirements to offer special category 'citizenship' to sports people solely for winning medals. There's no residency or relationship requirement, and quite likely one day all these 'citizenships' will be taken away when these sportsmen are no longer medal winners. Even their own locals don't like it, since there's an uproar that sportsmen don't really offer economic benefits, and are a vanity act.

The reason why OCA / IOC needs to refuse such representation is that it's very clearly self-serving, and there's no actual citizenship policy in place, and those - the large majority of them Indian white and blue collar folks who built those places - have no statutory path to citizenship and benefits there.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Aug 2018 19:48

Silver and bronze in "Kurash" . I don't even know what that is, but well done to our sportspeople in it! This is the sort of thing where we need a competent contingent to barge in and steal a bunch of medals - gold where possible - to pad our tally.

Hockey:
Mens semi: vs Malaysia
Womens semi: vs China

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 28 Aug 2018 20:19

Was a pleasant surprise today seeing India competing in men's synchronized swimming!

nash · Post by **nash** » 28 Aug 2018 20:21

so far we have 3 Gold in Athletics, despite African import, 2 in Field and 1 in Track. We can expect couple or several of more. Need to build on this momentum for future.

Neeraj chopra, Saurav and Hima all are farmer's son and daughter, tell a lot about how much talent we have in Rural and small cities , we need to build a system to scout them and provide best of the facilities and infra to nurture them into the world class athlete.

nash · Post by **nash** » 28 Aug 2018 21:11

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1034462347228733440

India has lodged a protest for 4x400m mixed relay finals. India has said Hima Das was obstructed by the Bahraini athlete. The protest has been accepted by the jury, hearing tomorrow.

Does anyone has any idea about this one and what would happen if it goes in our favor or against

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Aug 2018 21:30

Obstruction means guilty party gets disqualified .

nash · Post by **nash** » 28 Aug 2018 21:33

Suraj wrote:Obstruction means guilty party gets disqualified .

ok that would make another gold for us.

Does anyone has the video of it or anyone has seen it.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 28 Aug 2018 21:34

Vasu wrote:Was a pleasant surprise today seeing India competing in men's synchronized swimming!

Using existing swimming pool infrastructure, there is no reason why we cannot seriously compete in Diving (easier to train a medal winner than in swimming - apart from China/Japan, standards are not high), Water polo (I'm sure the Navy can put together a decent team capable of reaching the Semis) & Syn swimming.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 28 Aug 2018 21:47

There has been a modest improvement in this AG in that we have converted many bronzes in the last AG to silver. The failures so far has been in weightlifting (new talent not coming up) where we did not really participate, Kabaddi, recurve archery and boxing. We need to pick up other sports than our core areas to really get into the 20-30 golds range.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 28 Aug 2018 21:48

Poovamma lost us the gold in the relay.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 28 Aug 2018 21:49

Deans wrote:
Vasu wrote:Was a pleasant surprise today seeing India competing in men's synchronized swimming!
Using existing swimming pool infrastructure, there is no reason why we cannot seriously compete in Diving (easier to train a medal winner than in swimming - apart from China/Japan, standards are not high), Water polo (I'm sure the Navy can put together a decent team capable of reaching the Semis) & Syn swimming.

The way I have seen village teenagers jumping from bridges into rivers and canals they can easily be trained to be divers.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 28 Aug 2018 21:52

nash wrote:
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1034462347228733440

India has lodged a protest for 4x400m mixed relay finals. India has said Hima Das was obstructed by the Bahraini athlete. The protest has been accepted by the jury, hearing tomorrow.
Does anyone has any idea about this one and what would happen if it goes in our favor or against

Salwa Naser is a nigeria born player who participates for Bahrain

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 28 Aug 2018 21:55

Where is the obstruction?

nash · Post by **nash** » 28 Aug 2018 22:05

SBajwa wrote:Where is the obstruction?

This seems like the 400m event not the mixed relay.

M_Joshi · Post by **M_Joshi** » 28 Aug 2018 22:08

SBajwa wrote:Where is the obstruction?

This is Women's 400m Final. Obstruction happened in 4x400m Mixed Relay Finals.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Aug 2018 22:26

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 28 Aug 2018 22:50

The Nigerian woman fell in front of her blocking lane 1 and half of lane 2 right after passing baton. Everyone who passes baton has to get out of the way asap. It doesn't matter how the other person fell down - you cannot obstruct an opponent at all. The basic rules are:
* If you step into an inner lane when you're required to be in an outer lane: disqualified
* if you step into the inner area of track : disqualified (happened to the Indian men's 10K bronze winner here)
* If you step into an outer lane without obstructing anyone : no disqualification (since you have no advantage)
* if you step into another land on the straight without obstructing anyone : no disqualification (no benefit since you're taking a longer route)
* Any movement into an opponent's path that causes the opponent to have to swerve around you or step over you : obstruction meriting disqualification - the situation here . There are two variants:
- you're in front, you do something to force someone behind you trying to overtake you in a straight line around you, from doing so, making them swerve or jump over you - you're disqualified for obstructoin
- you're behind - you overtake someone cleanly, but step into their path when you're not yet at least one stride in front - you are disqualified

Hima had to swerve into lane 2 and jump over the person who fell in front of her . Provided we make this case effectively, there's a good chance here. The main point of contention here will be how close behind was Hima when this happened ? The news seems to suggest Hima was actually hit in the feet by the falling person. It she was just about a stride behind, this will probably be a win.

nash · Post by **nash** » 28 Aug 2018 23:03

Suraj wrote:The Nigerian woman fell in front of her blocking lane 1 and half of lane 2 right after passing baton. Everyone who passes baton has to get out of the way asap. It doesn't matter how the other person fell down - you cannot obstruct an opponent at all. The basic rules are:
* If you step into an inner lane when you're required to be in an outer lane: disqualified
* if you step into the inner area of track : disqualified (happened to the Indian men's 10K bronze winner here)
* If you step into an outer lane without obstructing anyone : no disqualification (since you have no advantage)
* if you step into another land on the straight without obstructing anyone : no disqualification (no benefit since you're taking a longer route)
* Any movement into an opponent's path that causes the opponent to have to swerve around you or step over you : obstruction meriting disqualification - the situation here

Hima had to swerve into lane 2 and jump over the person who fell in front of her . Provided we make this case effectively, there's a good chance here. The main point of contention here will be how close behind was Hima when this happened ? It she was just about a stride behind, this will probably be a win.

Thanks Suraj for explaining.

https://www.indiatoday.in/sports/asian- ... 2018-08-28

In the second picture, we can see there should not be much difference.

And this is the situation: lady passes the baton and fall not only on her path but also good part of her body is on opponent's track, this is clear obstruction, intentional or unintentional not sure.

As Hima got the baton, she had to change her lane and sidestep Bahrain's Oluwakemi Adekoya who fell before her, obstructing her way, after passing on the baton to Salwa Naser

But I have little hope.