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Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

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Bhurishravas
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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Bhurishravas » 08 Apr 2017 15:18

Bhurishravas wrote:^^ It can be done but that is more of an exception than the norm.
Besides Indians everywhere are getting taller and stronger. With a dedicated training regime, we should get somewhere in football. I am not a fan of tennis.
Father is 5,8. I am 6. My nephew is 6,3. He is still in school. We need better training, physical conditioning and opportunities.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Suraj » 08 Apr 2017 20:07

Bhurishravas wrote:^^ It can be done but that is more of an exception than the norm.
Besides Indians everywhere are getting taller and stronger. With a dedicated training regime, we should get somewhere in football. I am not a fan of tennis.
Father is 5,8. I am 6. My nephew is 6,3. He is still in school. We need better training, physical conditioning and opportunities.

Boss, technically ALL top flight athletes are the exception rather than the norm :) When the Japanese are constantly demonstrating the ability to succeed in TFTA events despite lacking the T attribute, it suggests the constraint can be overcome scientifically, and that it's not necessarily a gating factor.

Not just swimming where arguably a lean physique generates less water resistance but they won silver in 4x100m athletics relay in Rio, while China were 4th. Of course, they benefited from two DQs (including USA), but just to make it that far is credible, even more so to win silver. A group of comparably scrawny looking guys keeping up with the major sprint teams and medaling.

There was a fascinating interview later (there was a more detailed one on Japanese NHK TV) where they spoke of how they not just trained hard, but tracked Rio weather and learned it rained then, so they spent a lot of effort practicing baton exchanges in the rain. In the final they demonstrated easily the smoothest and most efficient baton exchanges of any team, while US and Trinidad/Tobago did so badly as to drop theirs in the wet conditions. Even Usain Bolt, who led Jamaica to gold ahead of Japan, complimented them afterwards on their baton exchanges.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Bhurishravas » 09 Apr 2017 02:09

^^ Kudos to their feat.
Perhaps some day the japanese will repeat their feat in 100 metres and 200 metres too where 5 feet japanese will beat 6,4 jamaicans.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Supratik » 09 Apr 2017 19:34

yayavar, it was just an info. Nothing more to it.

GS, I have actually played tennis since childhood till I couldn't due to time issues. The sport has undergone two stages of changes from the Rod Laver era to Bjorn Borg/McEnroe era to the Sampras/Federer era. Now it is all about power, physical fitness and stamina. You can be a brilliant tennis player even if you are not very tall but a brilliant taller player will have an edge on you. And the more aces you have the harder it is for the opponent. At a height you generate more pace and top spin. Thats all but even a shorter player can score aces. It is just an advantage nothing more if you suck in skills.

In general Bongs on an average are not known for height. But next generation in family is on average taller including girls with several at or near 6.

As for Indian hockey most pf the current players in the senior and junior team are tall and well built. It was not the case before.

Football - you can do without height if you are exceptionally talented except for central defenders and center forward who need to head e.g. Spanish and Brazilian teams.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby GShankar » 09 Apr 2017 21:11

Supratik, I still play tennis at club level. After all Tennis is not just about serves and aces. I agree it is more about power but again power is not == height is all I am saying.

And power and spin is more due to racket/string tech and hitting techniques imo - what's with so many of them hitting Western.

Anyways, seems like you and I are saying the same thing. I never said height is a disadvantage but just that talented shorter players are not at a too much of disadvantage. Even gave a few examples few posts ago.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Supratik » 09 Apr 2017 21:19

Yes, height alone is nothing if you are not skilled e.g. there have been bigger servers than Sampras and Federer but haven't been as successful. Also even in serve just aces is not enough if you are not consistent. So multiple skills are needed.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby hanumadu » 10 Apr 2017 01:44

6-1 to 6-4 seems to be an ideal height for tennis. There is only one sub 6 player in top 10 and this is probably true for the last several years. And Nishikori hasn't even won a ATP 1000 yet, let alone a grand slam. Racket technology has affected the big servers so much so serve and volley is out of the game. But if racket technology can adversely impact a tall big serving player, imagine what it can do to shorter players.

110-115mph was a big server now its 130mph.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby GShankar » 10 Apr 2017 02:09

Some top players imo out of your range - Wawrinka, Nishikori, Goffin and Nishioka (still to establlish, but good game).

Like I said, big serves are better countered by standing a bit far. Almost everyone I know does this. Only exception I remember is federer. The same racket tech that allows to serve fast also allows to return better by means of stable frame, responsive and spin friendly strings like hybrids, polys and duals.

Murray and Djokivic are not big servers in general. They don't even serve that many aces. But their all round game is much better than many others.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Yayavar » 10 Apr 2017 02:29

So hockey, football and table tennis. I think Badminton is still ok.
I'm leaving out long distance running or weight-lifting or boxing (weight class based) or wrestling.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby hanumadu » 10 Apr 2017 03:57

GShankar wrote:Some top players imo out of your range - Wawrinka, Nishikori, Goffin and Nishioka (still to establlish, but good game).

Like I said, big serves are better countered by standing a bit far. Almost everyone I know does this. Only exception I remember is federer. The same racket tech that allows to serve fast also allows to return better by means of stable frame, responsive and spin friendly strings like hybrids, polys and duals.

Murray and Djokivic are not big servers in general. They don't even serve that many aces. But their all round game is much better than many others.


Only Nishikori is in top 10. Wawrinka is 6.0, not as tall, still in my range. And his success is lesser than the others. Murray is a big, big server. Djokovic not so. But still better than the shorter players. There will be an occasional shorter player who will do well, but they are few in number. Its not only the pace at which you serve, but the angles the height allows. When was the last time a sub 6 player won a grand slam? Must be well over a decade.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Suraj » 10 Apr 2017 04:48

Meanwhile in badminton we continue to demonstrate that the men's singles second stringers are dangerous in their day, but cannot sustain form. Ajay Jayaram (world #25) beats world #2 Viktor Axelsen, who won the India Open last week (beating Jayaram in straight games in R1 on the way) and also was the World Super Series Finals winner and European champion last year. Then in the next round he loses to the 5th seed. Sindhu and Saina both made first round exits.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Yayavar » 10 Apr 2017 09:02

hanumadu wrote:...but the angles the height allows. ....


This is certainly a major advantage.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Yayavar » 10 Apr 2017 09:07

hanumadu wrote:
GShankar wrote:Some top players imo out of your range - Wawrinka, Nishikori, Goffin and Nishioka (still to establlish, but good game).

Like I said, big serves are better countered by standing a bit far. Almost everyone I know does this. Only exception I remember is federer. The same racket tech that allows to serve fast also allows to return better by means of stable frame, responsive and spin friendly strings like hybrids, polys and duals.

Murray and Djokivic are not big servers in general. They don't even serve that many aces. But their all round game is much better than many others.


Only Nishikori is in top 10. Wawrinka is 6.0, not as tall, still in my range. And his success is lesser than the others. Murray is a big, big server. Djokovic not so. But still better than the shorter players. There will be an occasional shorter player who will do well, but they are few in number. Its not only the pace at which you serve, but the angles the height allows. When was the last time a sub 6 player won a grand slam? Must be well over a decade.


David Ferrer...

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby GShankar » 10 Apr 2017 11:48

hanumadu wrote:
GShankar wrote:Some top players imo out of your range - Wawrinka, Nishikori, Goffin and Nishioka (still to establlish, but good game).

Like I said, big serves are better countered by standing a bit far. Almost everyone I know does this. Only exception I remember is federer. The same racket tech that allows to serve fast also allows to return better by means of stable frame, responsive and spin friendly strings like hybrids, polys and duals.

Murray and Djokivic are not big servers in general. They don't even serve that many aces. But their all round game is much better than many others.


Only Nishikori is in top 10. Wawrinka is 6.0, not as tall, still in my range. And his success is lesser than the others. Murray is a big, big server. Djokovic not so. But still better than the shorter players. There will be an occasional shorter player who will do well, but they are few in number. Its not only the pace at which you serve, but the angles the height allows. When was the last time a sub 6 player won a grand slam? Must be well over a decade.


Wawrinka is 6.0 but you said 6.1 to 6.4 and that's why I included wawrinka in my list. Still in your range? OK :)

My point has never been just about serve - as in, can shorter players serve as fast as taller players. Whereas I am saying these days there is counter for faster serves and allround game is necessary to win and shorter players can compensate for height deficit and can do well against taller players. And if you observe, those one trick wonders (those who can just server faster) don't do that well over a period of time against both taller and shorter players. That aussie guy groth comes to mind.

Your primary point is about the ideal height range for tennis players is 6.1 to 6.4. To understand this better, Tennis is a tfta game. Primarily tfta folks play it even today. And tfta folks are taller than sdre. So the average height of tfta who are talented in tennis also might correspond to that height range (I think) as of now. But then there is occasionally others who are short and talented and they come in and kick some tall player ass. This can only get better with more sdre coming in.

In the last 10 years or 15 years only a few (handful?) players have won grandslams. All others >= your range failed too. So this clearly says that talent trumps physical attributes. And proportionally those who failed in your range are much bigger number than sdre getting into top tier tennis. Moreover the current crop of young players like Raonic, Cilic, Kyrgios, Zverev, etc. are taller than your range. That's the evolution of tfta body size I guess. That does not mean one has to be at a certain height in Tennis to win. IMO absolutely NOT.

There are other games where physical attributes are more significant like say wrestling, boxing, etc. for example where they have weight classes. In other sports especially because the physical attributes are not really either a significant booster or hinderance, the sport is not organized based on physical attributes.

Finally - don't mean to bring in a strawman but this line of argument is similar to saying - in general only those from Andhra/Telengana are ideally suited to join IIT because they have the highest numbers in their side.

Yayavar, yes Ferrer is also another example but he has faded too quick too soon from 2nd part of last year.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby hanumadu » 10 Apr 2017 14:01

GShankar wrote:
hanumadu wrote:
Only Nishikori is in top 10. Wawrinka is 6.0, not as tall, still in my range. And his success is lesser than the others. Murray is a big, big server. Djokovic not so. But still better than the shorter players. There will be an occasional shorter player who will do well, but they are few in number. Its not only the pace at which you serve, but the angles the height allows. When was the last time a sub 6 player won a grand slam? Must be well over a decade.


Wawrinka is 6.0 but you said 6.1 to 6.4 and that's why I included wawrinka in my list. Still in your range? OK :)



Yes, still in my range because I also said ...

There is only one sub 6 player in top 10 ...


That talent and hard work are a must apart from physical attributes is a given. Short players, tall players every body needs talent. There is no argument there.

In the last 10 years or 15 years only a few (handful?) players have won grandslams. All others >= your range failed too. So this clearly says that talent trumps physical attributes. And proportionally those who failed in your range are much bigger number than sdre getting into top tier tennis. Moreover the current crop of young players like Raonic, Cilic, Kyrgios, Zverev, etc. are taller than your range. That's the evolution of tfta body size I guess. That does not mean one has to be at a certain height in Tennis to win. IMO absolutely NOT.


Yeah, only a hand full of players won grand slams and they all have been tall players. That's my point. Yes, many of the other tall players did not win a grand slam but zero players under 6 feet won a grand slam recenty. When you point to Raonic and others, you are contradicting your own point that shorter players can counter the tall players effectively.

Yes, IIT argument is strawman.

I will believe your argument when I see a wider range of players win big tournaments regularly.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby GShankar » 10 Apr 2017 19:44

Well my argument was (and is) 1) skill matters 2) serve alone doesn't win and 3) wider range of players will win when wider range of players participate at that level.
You can believe what you want though.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Bhurishravas » 10 Apr 2017 21:45

International badminton is supremely competitive with most of the more populous countries playing it. So it is no surprise that players keep losing to one another every now and then. Almost every players cheekbones are out and has six pack abs in badminton.
Because one has to keep changing directions in badminton and keep moving back and forth, there is less of a height advantage in this sport. Shorter people can change directions more easily.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Bhurishravas » 10 Apr 2017 21:47

Besides there is another round of spat going on between Leander and Bhupathi now. Dunno when Indian tennis will get over this. Phew!

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby chetak » 10 Apr 2017 21:51

Bhurishravas wrote:Besides there is another round of spat going on between Leander and Bhupathi now. Dunno when Indian tennis will get over this. Phew!


need to get rid of both these squabbling has beens.

Don't care how great they once were.

They have become a major embarrassment now

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Suraj » 10 Apr 2017 21:59

From what I can tell , it's a Paes issue . Bhupahi is the non playing Davis cup team captain . There was an opening in the doubles pairing to partner Bopanna . Someone else got picked instead of Paes , and the latter accused Bhupathi is sabotage .

I think that's a hard case to make . Paes is almost mid 40s. He plays challenger series tennis . We need to groom a new generation . Bopanna doesn't like him either . Paes has few options left . He is not entitled to a place based on past triumphs .

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Prasad » 10 Apr 2017 22:33

Height is a bit overrated. Popov was 6'5". Kitajima is 5'10". And lets not forget. A main significant reason for the S in SDRE is mal and undernutrition. SDRE kids in amerikka aren't so Sdre.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Javee » 11 Apr 2017 13:36

yeah, i think Paes has a chip in his shoulder these days and none of the current gen players want to partner with him. The worst is, they are fighting publicly in social media, which is highly unacceptable. Mahesh will have to be reprimanded for that.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Bhurishravas » 12 Apr 2017 16:26

Akhilesh Dasgupta, the badminton chief in India, passed away today after a heart attack.
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... y-4609884/

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Supratik » 15 Apr 2017 18:21

It is an all Indian final in MS at the Singapore open. But the top four were missing.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Raj » 15 Apr 2017 18:35

4th Nation to have same country players in Super Series final , after China, Indonesia and Denmark.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Raj » 15 Apr 2017 18:39



Kidambi Semi Final



Sai Praneeth Semi Final

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Bhurishravas » 16 Apr 2017 01:06

Srikanth is a world beater when he plays attacking badminton with confidence. He looked poor against Maulana Mustafa in the 2nd round. But his last two matches have been very impressive.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Raj » 16 Apr 2017 18:10


Sai Praneeth wins. 2nd Indian ever to win a super series men's event

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Raj » 16 Apr 2017 18:43

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/spor ... 205117.cms
NEW DELHI: Call it a super Sunday for Indian badminton, if you like. Not long before the first all-Indian final of the Singapore Open Super Series between Kidambi Srikanth and B Sai Praneeth, approximately 900 kilometers southwards in Jakarta, three young Indian shuttlers did the country proud by claiming podium finishes at the 2017 International Junior Grand Prix.
Gayatri Gopichand, daughter of All-England champion and coach of Rio Olympics silver medalist PV Sindhu, among other champions, won the Under-15 women's singles title by beating compatriot Samiya Imad Farouqui, while finishing with bronze was Kavipriya Selvam. Gayatri and Samiya also won the women's U-15 doubles title. The doubles bronze was won by Kavipriya and Meghana Reddy.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby hanumadu » 16 Apr 2017 21:42

The badminton scene in India is becoming Hyderabad heavy. Hope academies at other places step up.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Suraj » 16 Apr 2017 22:22

Kidambi vs Sai Praneeth wasfun to watch . Gopichand sounded tremendously satisfied that for once a major SS match involving Indian player would involve no court side coaching at all . The Chinese also don't present a coach when both finalists are Chinese .

Sai Praneeth clearly has a great game but from what I read , was weak on fitness and could not last a tournament . Gopichand in fact pulled him out of tournaments until he could demonstrate fitness levels good enough to actually last a tournament.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Marten » 16 Apr 2017 22:39

Javee wrote:yeah, i think Paes has a chip in his shoulder these days and none of the current gen players want to partner with him. The worst is, they are fighting publicly in social media, which is highly unacceptable. Mahesh will have to be reprimanded for that.

The truth is somewhere in between. Bhupati and his scheming father represent most of the youngsters through their sports management firm. The conflict of interest started early on with Bopanna being selected despite being in poor form. Mahesh is not a straightforward person at all. Paes is to your face and doesn't play these games because his ego doesn't allow him to stoop as low. The entire Bombay Pune Goa gang has been pushed out of the game. Youngsters want money and MB can get this support. So no one wants to play with cranky old Paes.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Bhurishravas » 17 Apr 2017 02:04

7-8 years ago, Praneeth looked like the most promising youngster who would break the chinese hold on mens singles discipline. But he does not seem to work very hard on his fitness. He may be one of the few players lacking muscle definition in arms and cheek bones not protruding out in the discipline.
Hopefully, this win will help motivate him to work harder. He is 24 now.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Suraj » 18 Apr 2017 23:54

A quick roundup of the athletics scene suggests steady progress in development of several national records, but no movement elsewhere.

Major Stories:
* Javelin: New NR of 86.48m . Also current world junior record, by Neeraj Chopra, the current world junior champion. Age 19. Beat the old national record by 6 metres. 86.xx is often enough to medal at World/Olympic level, e.g. would have won bronze in 2013 world championship and gold at 2011 WC, and would have won a medal in 2004, 2008 or even gold at 2012 Olympics. Throwing 87-90m is almost guaranteed medal. It would have won gold in every single Asian Games ever, except the last one, where he'd still have won silver.
* High Jump: New NR of 2.26 . Also the current junior NR, by Tejaswin Shankar. Age 17. Not a sure medal even at senior Asian standard, but the kid's just 17. This would also earn gold or silver at U20 worlds. If he makes 2.30 regularly, then he's an Asian medal contender at minimum.

Improvements in past year:
100m: Just 10.26 though. Way behind even Asian level.
200m: 20.45
400m: 45.40
110m hurdles: 13.54
Long Jump: 8.19m
Triple Jump: 17.30m
Hammer Throw: 70.73m
20km walk: 1:20
50km walk: 3:55
4x400m : 3.00

All these are mens. Not much improvement on the women's side, except 60.61 in javelin by Annu Rani, and the 4x100 . None of them are about to break Asian records either, but many of these records are tainted by 1990s PRC doping results.

Overall, a couple of very young potential world standard athletes, and overall steady gains mostly on mens side.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby SBajwa » 25 Apr 2017 00:31

Shooting world cup!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_ISSF_World_Cup

India at 4th Place after first round with 2 each of gold, silver and bronze.

Rank Nation Gold Silver Bronze Total
1 China 6 6 2 14
2 Italy 3 3 0 6
3 United States 3 2 0 5
4 India 2 2 2 6

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby SBajwa » 28 Apr 2017 02:15

Star custodian PR Sreejesh will lead an 18-member Indian hockey team at the 26th Sultan Azlan Shah Cup in Ipoh, Malaysia, starting April 29.

Manpreet Singh will be Sreejesh's deputy.

Defender Gurinder Singh, midfielders Sumit and Manpreet who were part of the Junior World Cup-winning squad are slated to make their debut at the tournament.

The 21-year-old goalkeeper from Mumbai Suraj Karkera who was part of the junior squad that toured England in 2016 and participated in the EurAsia Cup in Russia and the Four-Nations Tournament last year, too finds his name in the team.

Ahead of the national camp for the senior men's core probable group, chief coach Roelant Oltmans had emphasized on giving juniors the right exposure with a vision of building a team that would bring laurels in the 2018 World Cup and 2020 Tokyo Olympics.

As a first step towards that goal, the Chief Coach has inducted these youngsters from the junior men's team.

The trio, who were instrumental in the Indian team's success at the Junior World Cup, have played at the Sultan Azlan Shah Cup in the previous edition where India won a Silver after losing to Australia in the Final.

"The idea was to try out new combinations ahead of the three important tournaments this year, which are the World League Semi Final, Asia Cup and the Odisha Men’s Hockey League Final Bhubaneswar 2017," explained Oltmans.

"We have a few tournaments before these big events like we play Belgium and Germany before we play the World League Semi Final and we play Belgium and Holland in August. These are good opponents against whom we can test ourselves to access whether the players are achieving what we expect out of them,” he said.

Experienced Sardar Singh, Chinglensana Singh Kangujam, Harjeet Singh, Sumit and Manpreet will be manning the midfield.

The defence includes Rupinder Pal Singh, Pardeep Mor, Surender Kumar, Harmanpreet Singh and Gurinder Singh while the forwardline is formidable with S.V Sunil, Talwinder Singh, Affan Yousuf, Akashdeep Singh and Mandeep Singh.

"We will bring a team to Malaysia which is a mixture of experienced and young players some of whom have played in the senior squad earlier. It is a challenge for us to see where we stand with the new team combination compared to other teams like Australia, Great Britain and New Zealand," said Oltmans.

The coach feels that some of the opposition teams will not ring in too many changes. "They also will bring new players. I don’t expect Malaysia and Japan to have too many changes in their teams and I think they play the same players as they did at the Asian Champions Trophy last October," said Oltmans.

Squad: Goalkeepers PR Sreejesh (C), Suraj Karkera

Defenders: Pardeep Mor, Surender Kumar, Rupinderpal Singh, Harmanpreet Singh, Gurinder Singh

Midfielders: Chinglensana Singh Kangujam, Sumit, Sardar Singh, Manpreet Singh (VC), Harjeet Singh, Manpreet

Forwards: SV Sunil, Talwinder Singh, Mandeep Singh, Affan Yousuf, Akashdeep Sing

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Suraj » 28 Apr 2017 06:53

19 year old Neeraj Chopra qualifies for senior World Championships as our javelin contender. The junior world champion and world record holder (86.48m) threw 83.32m in the Asian GP. It's very early in the season, so he's just building form. By late summer if he can throw 86-88 again, he would be in contention for the first Indian world championship medal since Anju George in 2003.

On a negative note, AAI has refused to extend the tenure of Gary Calvert, the Australian who helped nurture our young javelin throwers from nobodies to world standard throwers. I hope sense prevails and he get an extension up to Tokyo 2020. Until last year, the javelin national record was 80.xx . Now we have Chopra at 86.48 as the national and junior world record holder, and multiple others throwing 82-84.

IMHO javelin is the most TFTA of field events, along with hammer throw. We had Vikas Gowda in discus, but he's been unable to make the leap from continental medalist to world medalist.

Suraj
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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby Suraj » 30 Apr 2017 20:57

Azlan Shah Hockey:

India drew Great Britain 2-2
India beat New Zealand 3-0

Good performance, since NZ drew with top ranked Australia in their previous match. We play Aus next, and then Japan and Malaysia.

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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby SBajwa » 01 May 2017 22:39

India vs Britain


SBajwa
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Re: Indian Sports and Entertainment Industry

Postby SBajwa » 01 May 2017 22:41

India vs New Zealand



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