PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
ashi
BRFite
Posts: 456
Joined: 19 Feb 2009 13:30

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Postby ashi » 14 Dec 2011 12:30

g.sarkar wrote:http://www.npr.org/2011/12/13/143623874/after-boom-chinas-property-market-heads-lower
After Boom Years, Chinese Housing Market Looks Soft
by Frank Langfitt


That's exactly what the Chinese government wants and that's exactly what they get.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 14 Dec 2011 14:35

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-16173768

the usual - villagers protest landgrab and murder by corrupt officials and police.

I used to think our netas have no rivals in greed but the CCP officials are no less greedy, and they have a bigger pie to feed on :oops:

chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4074
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Postby chola » 14 Dec 2011 18:21

Christopher Sidor wrote:
I wish China all the best in its efforts to transform into a consumption led economy from an export led economy. Let us see if you can actually pull it off.



It will never be a consumption led economy. It isn't even an export led economy. It is communist and communism dictates government control of the economy which means it is investment led -- investment of tax payers' yuans with no oversight. That is why waste is monumental in communist nations.

That said, even though it is not consumption-led, the consumer market in China is massive. More massive as a whole than even the US market. I would be irresponsible if I didn't point this out since it is the field I'm. China is the largest or second largest market for GM, VW, Apple, Caterpillar, Hyundai, Intel, Sony, LG, HTC and practically every other company in the top 100 MNCs.

Taiwan, Japan, Korea and the US all have even more antagonistic relationships with the PRC than India and yet they still dominate the Chinese market and make billions from it. Indian companies cannot compete with the rest of the world if they are handicapped by a non-presence in one of the two largest markets in the world. A good start is to realize that it is a huge consumer market, many times larger than India's, even if it is not "consumption-led."
Last edited by chola on 14 Dec 2011 18:25, edited 1 time in total.

chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4074
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Postby chola » 14 Dec 2011 18:24

Singha wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-16173768

the usual - villagers protest landgrab and murder by corrupt officials and police.

I used to think our netas have no rivals in greed but the CCP officials are no less greedy, and they have a bigger pie to feed on :oops:


The longer that China stays communist, the better. I would never wish for a democratic China built along the lines of Japan, South Korea or Taiwan.

VikramS
BRFite
Posts: 1781
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Postby VikramS » 14 Dec 2011 20:40

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/huge-year ... china-fund
Another perspective.


The CCP can control something but not everything. Right the slowdown in China is manifesting in other indicators whose values are less regulated, as revealed by Hugh Hendry's Anti China Fund.

Regarding your comment on Property prices:
Why does the CCP want the savings of millions to go to waste by letting property prices fall so soon and so fast?

ashi wrote:Is Chanos Finally Getting It Right on China?

Two years ago famed hedge fund short seller Jim Chanos made waves by predicting a real estate collapse for China. He proclaimed that China was like "Dubai times 1000, or worse." His predictions have not been proven right.


Now, Chanos seems to be backtracking on his dire predictions. He told CNBC last week in an interview that, "China's going to survive all this. This is not the end of the next Middle Kingdom" but that China is facing a "pretty big speed bump." A speed bump, no matter how big, is quite different from Chanos’ earlier gloomy predictions.


There has been a slowdown in manufacturing and housing prices. A closer look at the economy actually shows that Chanos is correct this time – there is a serious speed bump in China’s economic future but that a soft landing is the likely scenario.


Looking ahead China’s consumer sector should continue to soar while the road ahead for the real estate and manufacturing sectors looks bumpy.

Theo_Fidel

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Postby Theo_Fidel » 14 Dec 2011 22:29

chola wrote: A good start is to realize that it is a huge consumer market, many times larger than India's, even if it is not "consumption-led."


Chola,

Can you explain this. Doesn't make sense superficially.

wong
BRFite
Posts: 382
Joined: 27 May 2011 19:21

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Postby wong » 15 Dec 2011 01:13

Actually, I'm well aware your wife is ethnically Chinese, since you like to remind your fellow Indians here in almost every post on this thread. I was actually waiting for you to remind us all for at least the 10th time. That's your complex, not mine. My wife is not Chinese, so there goes most your questionable gender theories that stem, no doubt, from some insecurity complex you harbor.

chola wrote:
wong wrote:
Some logic you have there. Even if what you wrote is true, which it isn't, we are talking about Chinese people in China, not Chinese people in the West. In the West the women (not all, but many) covet you for your money and how big your wallet is. I know this from personal experience. The other silly stereotypes you wrote, I won't even address.


Yes, we are talking about the Chinese people in China. There are two parallel cottage industries in China decreasing the amount of females in a society already seriously short of females: one -- Westerners are adopting thousands of little Chinese girls since this sick society doesn't want them (witness the little girl being run over repeatedly without anyone caring to stop and help) and two, white and foreign males of all stripes including overseas Chinese export thousands of Chinese females back to the West as wives, mistresses and concubines.

I'd say I have some personal experience. I'm married to a Chinese-American wife. I find the overall visage of Chinese girls very attractive with the porcelain coloring, hairless smooth skin and delicate features, especially when combined with American-style physical toning and conditioning (she was on the volleyball and swim teams in school). So I congratulate you on providing the world with your females though it is becoming more and more unlikely that Chinese males would be able to corral them or any other females.

wong
BRFite
Posts: 382
Joined: 27 May 2011 19:21

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Postby wong » 15 Dec 2011 01:25

Actually, having the private and public sector compete for deals and talent is one of the strengths of the Chinese form of state capitalism. So my example has everything to do with it. Having the state compete in the marketplace means China can undertake lucrative long term projects that would never pass the short term ROI demanded by the private sector.

Africa, the Middle East and India all have lots of teenagers, the demographic dividend nonsense. Personally, I would only bet on 1 of the 3 to succeed and reap those dividends (Africa).

VikramS wrote:
wong wrote:Every major private equity firm and venture capital firm (Warburg Pincus, KKR, Kleiner Perkins) has been in China for over 10 to 20 years. They compete with the state for both deals and talent. I would not worry about the efficiency of Chinese venture funding. They have been some of the most profitable deals in the world in the past 10 years. What I found interesting from reading about the Rajat Gupta insider trading case was that he couldn' make money in India with his venture capital firm. If he can't, who can ???

As for this demographic dividend you are hoping for, it may or may not happen. It takes more than just bodies. All the other ingredients will have to be in place.




What do foreign VC funds have to do with the investment decisions made by the state? And if it is true that foreign firms compete with the state then why did they not do this deal?

I think the simple answer is that they knew that the deal was a ripoff and a theft and the Western companies will typically stay away from blatant IP theft. But the Chinese state do not have such qualms because once the CCP head-honcho has given his blessing, no law in the world can protect the IP.

I also find your statement about foreign firms competing with the state highly improbable; it is not typically considered wise to compete with the state in PRC; you are supposed to cooperate.

wong wrote:As for this demographic dividend you are hoping for, it may or may not happen. It takes more than just bodies. All the other ingredients will have to be in place.



Ah, now this gets interesting. Can you elaborate more about the other ingredients which need to be in place? That will shed more light.

VikramS
BRFite
Posts: 1781
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Postby VikramS » 15 Dec 2011 01:42

wong:



There have been numerous articles and studies about Chinese women specifically, and oriental women in general, having a bias for non-Oriental men.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracia ... _and_White
In 2008, of new marriages including an Asian man, 80% were to an Asian spouse and 14% to a White spouse; of new marriages involving an Asian woman, 61% were to an Asian spouse and 31% to a White spouse.


4 out of 5 Asian men marry Asian.
3 out of 5 Asian women marry Asian.

So a majority of Asian men or women, marry Asian. However, the percentage of Asian women marrying non-Asian is double that of the Asian men marrying non-Asian.

Or will you know dismiss this as Western propaganda??

I live in Asian Central in Silicon Valley. The ratio here is about 4:1 i.e. about 4 Asian-women/non-Asian men versus 1 Asian Man/non-Asian woman. And the Asian men typically tend to be Korean or Japanese and much less often Chinese. And this is in a region where the average parent has a Master's degree so there is the education/wealth bias is not an issue.

In my own circle of geeky Indian-born class-fellows in the US, there are a surprising number who have married Asian women. At a sub-conscious level it is perhaps a reflection of some hidden biases.

On BR you will find a gazillion posts about the generational differences between how Indians perceive white people; and how those perceptions evolve. So it is not just purely a Chinese thingy.

How old are you? And as they say "pics or ban" ;)
Please tuck the e-peen back where it belongs.

VikramS
BRFite
Posts: 1781
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Postby VikramS » 15 Dec 2011 01:50

wong wrote:Actually, having the private and public sector compete for deals and talent is one of the strengths of the Chinese form of state capitalism. So my example has everything to do with it. Having the state compete in the marketplace means China can undertake lucrative long term projects that would never pass the short term ROI demanded by the private sector.


I agree that public and private investments should complement each other because of the ROI factor you mentioned above. But how does that logic apply here or anywhere else?

Or do you not understand the differences between complementing and competing???

In this particular case, there was no complementing; it was pure competition, that too with a privately funded venture. A simple case of a the goons from the CCP usurping the private investors.

But you of course will refuse to see that since you are not able to sleep well unless you have defended the CCP regardless of how bogus the argument is.


Africa, the Middle East and India all have lots of teenagers, the demographic dividend nonsense. Personally, I would only bet on 1 of the 3 to succeed and reap those dividends (Africa).



And the logic behind these Pearls of Wisom, is Mao's Red Book or the latest circular which the CCP sent you?

Either make a case based on something worth the intellectual capital of people reading the boards or do not post. As they say, "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

wong
BRFite
Posts: 382
Joined: 27 May 2011 19:21

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Postby wong » 15 Dec 2011 01:54

^^^^

Since when did silicon valley move to mainland china. I thought this was a thread about mainland China and not Chinese Americans??? The relevance of your example escapes me and I've owned a home in SF Bay Area before (Walnut Creek). And my experience is different from yours, but then I work in finance and not technology. Perhaps if you sited stats from Beijing or Shanghai it would be more on topic.

wong
BRFite
Posts: 382
Joined: 27 May 2011 19:21

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Postby wong » 15 Dec 2011 02:01

I think results speak for themselves. This is 100 page thread of Indian predicting a Chinese collapse that by all rational indicators isn't even close to happening. In fact China, being a creditor nation, is stronger than ever. Meanwhile, what's INR trading today??

VikramS
BRFite
Posts: 1781
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Postby VikramS » 15 Dec 2011 02:19

wong wrote:^^^^

Since when did silicon valley move to mainland china. I thought this was a thread about mainland China and not Chinese Americans??? The relevance of your example escapes me and I've owned a home in SF Bay Area before (Walnut Creek). And my experience is different from yours, but then I work in finance and not technology. Perhaps if you sited stats from Beijing or Shanghai it would be more on topic.



The observation which Chola made was that given a choice a lot of Asian women marry non-Asian which is not likely to help the gender imbalance situation. Clearly that can not happen in PRC since non-Chinese are not residents there.

However, when they have a choice, as in the US, twice the number marry non-Asian than the reverse. As the mobility of people increases, this is likely to put an even greater pressure on the gender imbalance in China.

I personally feel that this line of discussion is pretty fruitless. Both Indian and China have huge gender imbalances and the sooner they do something about it the better it is.


I think results speak for themselves. This is 100 page thread of Indian predicting a Chinese collapse that by all rational indicators isn't even close to happening. In fact China, being a creditor nation, is stronger than ever. Meanwhile, what's INR trading today??


You are so trained to see only one side of the coin that any critical analysis of China is perceived as "predicting Chinese collapse". The fact of the matter is that most Indians do not know much about China. What they are doing here is collect articles and try to make an inference.

However, whenever their is a negative article, we have CCP drones like you come in to defend China. Among a bunch of folks who are so critical of the actions of Indian leaders, such dedication to defending the CCP is amusing, to say the least.

Some of us also find the hubris people like you display a bit scary. It is somewhat reminiscent of the Nazi Germany, where a powerful nation, with a sense of vicitmhood, with little internal checks and balances, and a powerful suppression mechanism went on to cause so much death and mayhem. In a lot ways modern PRC is acting like the Nazis, lacking a moral compass.

BTW, what is wrong with a cheap INR? It helps Indian exports, forces Indian energy consumer to become more efficient and encourages longer term capital inflows. The CCP huffs and puffs to keep the Yuan pegged below its natural value. How come what is good for the Chinese is bad for the Indians? And you claim to be in finance. :((

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16881
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Postby Rahul M » 15 Dec 2011 02:21

time for a new thread.


Return to “Technology & Economic Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: isubodh and 10 guests