States News and Discussions

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 15 Sep 2015 20:07

Sachin wrote: The flooding of skilled people (in large numbers), I feel started after the KA state got its basic part right. That is, she figured out that IT is now going to be a cash cow for some 30-40 years, and allowed the initial set of IT entrepreneurs to set shop there. This happened when the state's overall literacy levels for not great, and we had a 100% literate state right across the border, with engineering graduates aplenty. And that was the time when getting an engineering seat in KL in general quota, really required the chap to be smart. Some times, I even get a feeling that KA governments of those days allowed IT companies to set shop perhaps knowing that this would bring in a lots of people to Bangalore - which means more long term money generation avenues (through apartment construction, real estate wheeling & dealing, plus lots of other legal, semi-legal & illegal means). Today thanks to this policy the situation is like any body who wants to start a career in IT, needs to be in Bangalore at least for some years .

The Indian Silicon Valley, like the original one, blossomed on the back of a strong military R&D setup.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 15 Sep 2015 20:18

Sachin, Bangalore had industries before IT revolution in India. People were flocking to Bangalore for a long time now since the 70s and even earlier. Karnataka had a lot of small scale industries and loans to start up were easier to get as I recall. Bangalore's rise is not built on IT, it has solid back-bones if you look around.

It is another thing that my dad and his friends lost their shirt trying to do this, hearing about all the successes.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 15 Sep 2015 20:21

Computer Usage and Labour Regulation in India's Retail Sector
Author(s): Amin Mohammad

Journal:

Journal of Development Studies , Vol. 46, Issue: 9 Pages: 1572-1592, 2010
Abstract:

A recent survey of 1,948 retail stores in India conducted by the World Bank's Enterprise surveys shows that 19 per cent of all stores use computers. In the state of Kerala, the figure is as high as 40 per cent. Using this survey, we estimate the effect of computer usage on labour employment. Our findings show that this effect depends on the stringency of the underlying labour laws. Stricter labour laws magnify the labour displacing effect of computers significantly.

http://pdfserve.informaworld.com/441315 ... 659205.pdf

I could not open this link to view the details...the abstract sounds interesting. The stricter labor laws may be spurring an automation paradigm contrary to common beliefs in KL.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 15 Sep 2015 20:36

Yes! It wasn't just IT. If you wanted to be in manufacturing Bengluru was the place to be back then. I believe it was the units in Bengluru that first started of adopting ISO9000 manufacturing standards. A few even won demming awards, etc. Bengluru bench marked it self globally long before most others started thinking along those lines. IMO it has to do with the people themselves and their openness to outsiders and outside ideas....

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 15 Sep 2015 22:16

http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/chennai/CJ-Kaul-Orders-CISF-Security-Cover-for-Madras-High-Court/2015/09/15/article3028524.ece

Taking a serious view of a group of lawyers and ‘civilians’ staging a sit-in protest inside the court hall demanding conduct of proceedings in Tamil, Chief Justice S K Kaul and Justice T S Sivagnanam on Monday ordered the State government to provide CISF or a similar force’s security cover to the Madras High Court’s principal seat in Chennai and bench at Madurai.

“The judges must feel secure while administering justice and thus, proper security has to be arranged to prevent such incidents, which not only disrupt the functioning of the court but can result in security breaches when courts are concerned with sensitive matters, especially a court like the present High Court and its Bench,” the judges said in a suo motu order.

While giving the direction, the court took into account a recent submission made by the police to the court’s security committee, highlighting how advocates behaved in an unruly manner and attacked the uniformed men on various occasions. Trouble began early in the morning, when the First Bench comprising the Chief Justice and Justice Sivagnanam was tipped off about a likely protest by a group of lawyers. While the judiciary passed on the information to the police, a group of lawyers accompanied by some people who were not in advocate’s robes, managed to enter the court hall and staged a protest. The protestors, including some law students, who had covered their mouth with black ribbons, held placards, urging the court to permit the use of Tamil as a court language.

This prompted the Chief Justice to question Solicitor General G Rajagopal on the security lapse and why a special force should not give adequate security to the court. Soon after, several top police officers descended near the court hall but the protestors remained inside.

The judges said the police were often reluctant to take any action, possibly due to past confrontation with the lawyers, and gave the order.

The judges noted that the police was often reluctant to take any action, possibly due to past confrontation between lawyers and the police.

“(But) The courts and the judges cannot be left unattended and unprotected,” the bench of Justices Kaul and Sivagnanam observed.

The judges pointed out that in 2007 the Union Home Ministry had issued guidelines declaring the High Court in all states as high security zone. “We cannot wait anymore and issue directions to the State government to forthwith take action and initiate declaration of the High Court as a high security zone by the next date,” the bench said.

The court also referred to the proceedings of the meeting of its Security Committee on July 7, wherein officer bearers of advocate’s associations had mentioned that considering the continuing altercation between the police and lawyers, the security cover of the court could be handed over to the Central Industrial Security Force (CISF).
At that meeting, the Assistant Commissioner of Police (High Court Range) had submitted that advocates had beaten up the police personnel on at least 10 occasions in the past three to four years. The police did not escalate the issue earing a bigger altercation. Citing various instances of unruly behaviour, the Assistant Commissioner had said that some advocate passed “lewd remarks against women police personnel, especially those who would be in their early 20s.”

Some of them would lodge false complaints against clients who could not pay up heavy fees demanded by them.

Issuing notices to the Tamil Nadu Chief Secretary and Union Home Secretary, the bench called upon the authorities concerned to “immediately take steps for handing over the security cover for the High Court to CISF or any other similar force.”

The judges added that this was necessary as incidents like those witnessed on Monday, were not only destructive and disrespectful towards the court, but affects the very ability of the court to dispense justice.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 15 Sep 2015 23:38

Literacy is not going to create jobs in itself, if you dont have a business community, that can make strategic forays outside their diaspora borders or traditional bastions.

Kerala's key problem since independence is the lack of a political consensus on industrialization. The dilli-establishment promoted that lack of cohesion on this, due to Sir CP's viewpoint still holding sway. Must have been scary for dilli, to watch CENTCOM feelers lingering around into the 50s. The result is a fracturing of business community along caste and communal lines. Banking, hospitality, retail, liquor, education etc got swayed by these divisions. We have giants in all these sectors, at a state (or even national level) but who are international pygmies. These businesses rarely make the jump to IPO or overseas acquisitions, due to the resistance from the community elders. Fear of losing control is a huge deal for the elders. Might need the next gen to get over this and go truly professional. eg: a certain money-lending turned banking group, which got split into red and blue, have varying management types at the top. One side has a polished Harvardi and the other side has a dude who talks like a village-lender. They are not going to challenge HDFC or ICICI anytime soon, because they have too many family stakeholders to listen to.

This sort of conservativeness tallies with Kerala's traditional business community being dominated by traders. The day-traders dont make forecasts over years and develop multi-year plans, like a strategic business community run by professionals. Nor do they take risks that affect the day trade. They live life for short term trades. A failure of a traditional Kerala business house causes a long standing management experience to die, unlike in professional systems, where the lessons are absorbed and sometimes new blood will replace the failed, thereby causing rejuvenation. And failures happen often, mainly caused by vicious infighting. The concept of alliances and syndicates are not explored, when it comes to communities

Add to that, the land reforms caused splintering of even non-agricultural land. Getting a five acre land aggregation done is a nightmare, let alone, say 150 acres. Things like UMPP or nukular powerplants needs 600+ acres. That sort of aggregation is, I believe quite achievable in Bangalore. eg: last weekend, I visited a site of that dimension in Bengaluru, where 4000 housing units are planned. Coincidentally, a kerala princeling is Bengaluru's leading land aggregation figure. Silent backroom type

Anyways, 100% literacy has got nothing to do with perceived lack of culture, work culture, arrogance et al. Those are merely anecdotal and has no relevance beyond venting uselessly or trolling.

eg: if anyone here has dealt with any of Hassidim birathers from around the world, they will know that all the above "lack of whatever" does not matter. The hassidim birathers cause far more level of khujli for rest of the world and there are lots of whispered shortcoming like arrogance, defensiveness, ruthless, tribal et al. Yet, they are highly successful (the word 'titans' are a cliche, when it comes to the hassidim success stories) in their own right, due to being plugged into global networks early on and also having a strategic streak in their thinking.

Summarize:
1) evolution from day traders to an org of professional managers, has not happened
2) land aggregation woes

Rest of things like union issues et al are "a risk", not "the risk" as is being portrayed by a few posters like Sachin (no, johny-kutty is not needed!), who I suspect, see this from a middle-class POV. This POV has been shaped by the rhetoric of anti-labour politicians and media houses over decades and is not necessarily a true deal breaker. These union et al are risks that can be mitigated and there are strong state level mechanisms for that, as I have detailed before. Again, not condoning union high-handedness, just saying they are not to be used as excuses or a stick to beat with.

Bengaluru had a very solid base in every damn industry, by the end of 80s. It followed the Mumbai model in that local entrepreneurs (even familial ones) hired professional managers with lots of independence, early on.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 16 Sep 2015 01:25

R Jaggi's latest article addresses the states ease of doing business survey results:
NDA-ruled states are topping the ease of doing business rankings - here's why

The headlines on the progress of reforms under the Modi government may not read too well – GST stuck, land bill abandoned, etc – but at a more fundamental level, reforms are progressing quite well, thank you.

Before one asks how and where, here are two points to keep in mind: one, legislative changes may be important, but what matters more is whether India is getting to be a better place to do business in, and often this calls for executive action; and two, what happens in Delhi is visible to the national and international media, but in a federal polity, what happens in states is equally important. It is states that must lead reforms in future.

That seems to be happening. Narendra Modi’s mantra of competitive and cooperative federalism is beginning to work if one looks at the results of the first ranking of states on the ease of doing business. It has been produced by the World Bank in association with the centre’s department of industrial policy and promotion (DIPP).

The surprise is not who topped the list (who else, but Gujarat, with an overall score of 71.14 percent across the 98 parameters considered for the ranking), but the changing composition of the honours list of “aspiring leaders” – the seven states that scored above 50 percent overall. Not one is a Congress-ruled state, and all but one are NDA-ruled states. Odisha is the lone exception in the Top 7 that scored above 50 percent. (Check out 10 graphics here.)

It is no accident that reforms at the ground level are being spearheaded by NDA-ruled states. Modi’s home team is doing better than opposition-ruled states that seem keener to trip him and his growth agenda than to take their own states forward.

The main highlight of the World Bank study is that it is not the usual suspects which dominate the upper tier of rankings – not Maharashtra, not Haryana, not Tamil Nadu, not even Karnataka, the most industrially advanced states in India.

Rather, the rankings are ruled by newbies like the truncated Andhra Pradesh, which came a close second to Gujarat under Telugu Desam boss N Chandrababu Naidu, and traditionally backward states such as Jharkhand, Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh and Rajasthan. These former “Bimaru” states are now at the forefront of state-led reform, having realised that helping business succeed is the key to growth and jobs.

Equally unsurprising, Nitish Kumar’s Bihar is way down on the list at No 21. NiKu is taking his state downhill in his blind ego tussle with NaMo. He is no longer a development icon to follow, obsessed as he seems to be with political oneupmamship. Even Uttar Pradesh, the heart of “Bimaru”, is in the top 10 – just about.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 16 Sep 2015 02:19

hnair: There are so many code words in your post that an interesting post has become almost unreadable. Who is Sir CP? What is the lending house which split into red and blue? What do those colors signify?

In AP too businesses are fractured along caste and communal lines. Movie making is dominated by kammas who use the popularity to enter politics. Muslims in hyderabad are majorly into tranportation both commercial (trucking) and consumer rentals. They are also into meat industry and to an extent travel. Private Hospitals, and high-tech electronics were Reddys' area including doctors but it is increasingly being broken into by kammas. Teching at school/high schol level, Engg. and higher education (research) was traditionally brahmin dominated but now they are mostly into school teaching and paurohityam. Lease agriculture (kaulu or batAi) is kapus and poorer reddys area.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 16 Sep 2015 02:24

CP is the last Diwan of Travancore state who did not want Travancore to join the Indian union.

The business house is probably Muthoot.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 16 Sep 2015 05:06

I sorta guessed muthoot which is all-pervasive in India. Still moi a little stumped as to the full form of "CP". Oh, well I will have to get back to the topic (and BRF in general) after two days.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 16 Sep 2015 07:01

^^^ There was a interesting article on how and why Texas Instruments selected then little known Bangalore over other locations worldwide when they wanted to set up a center in 1984-1985.They are credited as the first global technology company to recognize India's strength in R&D and to set up a software design center in India.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 16 Sep 2015 07:53

Bade

(btw, thanks for the earlier kind words, we got to keep analysing from real life experience, instead of lazy hand-waving with a "remittances, that is why" kind of analysis cliches)

vayu tuvan, google for Sir CP and you will come up with a chap of incredibly mixed talents. People either hate him (ICS/current babudom) or hate him even more (communists) and yet privately agree he was right in lots of thing.

If Kerala can remain isolated, the old-school family/community enterprises will work. But since the 90s, Kerala can't remain isolated and hence professional management talent needs to be attracted in droves, by the local industrial. The current style must change. You are correct, Andhra has a lot of parallels in community based enterprises with Kerala's. But I guess Andhra has moved on to professional management based enterprises, way better than the Kerala business houses. Particularly the bigger ones.

Suraj, that WB report is generating a lot of flak for the shameless chap who has been over-acting his way for three decades, as Finance minister of Kerala. I saw a comment just now that cost of MoA and AoA for starting up an entity has been jacked up and is TEN times compared to other states

This is in addition to the five-fold increase in registration costs since last budget. The chap's well publicized bribery allegations has served to distract the opposition from raising this forcefully during last budget session and the short-sighted CM is happy because of the revenue inflow

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 16 Sep 2015 09:45

Bade wrote:Sachin, Bangalore had industries before IT revolution in India. People were flocking to Bangalore for a long time now since the 70s and even earlier.

I know about the various PSUs and Defence sector organisations like BEL etc., but was Bangalore a really "must go" type of destination in the 70s etc.? There were other cities like Mumbai and Chennai as well? But again the folks in that generation who I have met, essentially were not "techies" so perhaps they had headed to Mumbai or Chennai mainly because the job opportunities for them existed there (accountants, sales etc. etc.).

hnair wrote:Must have been scary for dilli, to watch CENTCOM feelers lingering around into the 50s

Are you saying that the Dilli establishment was scared of a communist strong hold emerging in Kerala? The first government was dismissed, and I have heard stories of even CIA having a few of their folks in Kerala (one was said to be a basketball coach in a famous College in Cochin) to "monitor the situation".

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 16 Sep 2015 10:09

no, au contraire. What I am saying is that the dilli-establishment deftly used the communists to hack away the old power structures (who might have had CENTCOM thoughts) via land reforms. Once that task was done the first gen communists (with questionable loyalties) got packed off unceremoniously and that too within a short 2 years. Communists had to wait until a more amiable chap like Shree Achutha Menon became acceptable to the dilli establishment. EMS never recovered from these games.

The fig-leaf was provided by a rather curious movement called "vimochana samaram". Why else would a low-talent Mannath Padmanabhan be hastily anointed as "pope" or a single-district supremo like PT Chacko get the sort of boost they got?

The effects still linger, but I see a realignment happening slowly, due to other factors not adding up in current context.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 18 Sep 2015 10:30

I guessed sir CP is sir cp ramaswamy iyer. Am I correct?

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 18 Sep 2015 14:36

member_19686 · Post by **member_19686** » 18 Sep 2015 15:56

Orthodoxy defeats immunisation
ABDUL LATHEEF NAHA

"I have more trust in Allah than in doctors. When you trust doctors more than God, it is perfidy,” asserts Abdul Rahman, a madrasa teacher in Tirur, after a Malappuram child succumbed to diphtheria on Thursday.

This is no surprise in this district, where a worrying re-emergence of diphtheria is putting at risk considerable swathes of its population who still stubbornly shun immunisation and vaccination for supposedly religious reasons. On Thursday, 12-year-old Ameeruddin of Kondotty, who lived in a local orphanage died at the Government Medical College in Kozhikode. He was just one among the thousands of non-immunised children in the district. Over a dozen Malappuram children are now under observation for suspected diphtheria, and three more have been confirmed to have it.

By the latest official count, Malappuram has 23,912 out of 342,657 children below the age of five in the district, the highest in the State, kept out of all immunisation efforts.

That apart, official data also says more than one out of every three children aged between 5 and 10 – or a whopping 36 per cent – growing up in the district never had any immunisation. That leaves them vulnerable to everything from tuberculosis, diphtheria, whooping cough, tetanus, hepatitis-B, meningitis, measles, and polio myelitis. It is not that they had no access to immunisation. Too many of them were deliberately denied immunisation by their own parents or kin.

Two locally powerful and orthodox groups have been traditionally leading a stiff resistance to immunisation.

These include a large section of families owing allegiance to the Sunni faction led by Kanthapuram AP Aboobacker Musliar, and families of hard core Jama’at-e-Islami followers.

With the diphtheria debate now throwing up questions, Jama’at-e-Islami leader Shaikh Mohammed Karakunnu told The Hindu that to immunise the children or not was a question of “personal choice and freedom’’ of the people, and claimed that his organisation has not issued an official call to boycott all immunisation efforts. “We have not issued any such directive,” he said.

The Kanthapuram Sunni group too claimed a similar stance. Although no religious groups or leaders have officially opposed immunisation, none of them has made a call to the community to vaccinate their children, either.

“It is hard to convince the opposers, who claim themselves to be educated,” says the District Medical Officer, V. Ummer Farook.

Even the Indian Union Muslim League (IUML), the second largest constituent of the State’s ruling coalition with a near-complete political monopoly hold over Malappuram, has yet to do anything substantial, apart from its Late leader Syed Mohammedali Shihab Thangal and his younger brother Syed Sadiqali Shihab Thangal consenting to inaugurate a couple of oral polio vaccine drives earlier.

IUML district general secretary P. Abdul Hameed said that his party was now thinking of launching a campaign supporting immunisation. “It has now become the need of the hour,” he said.

There are also others who are not convinced, and for reasons apart from the religious. “We do not oppose immunisation per se. But we are against using children for experimental purposes,” says Mohammed Jaseel, spokesperson for the Institution for Homoeopaths Kerala (IHK).

Dr. Jaseel says a section of homoeopaths were opposing immunisation as vaccination was still being done for already eradicated diseases. “Naturally they suspect commercial interests to be behind mass immunisation,” he said.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/k ... 663971.ece

Admin note: highlighted a few parts you might have left out in inadvertently

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 24 Sep 2015 04:18

Here is some good news from an economically backward state:

Jharkhand nets big catch in cages, plays mentor

Ranchi, Sept. 23: If fish are cagey about biting, Jharkhand's catching a big haul in cages.

The state fisheries department has not only grown fish production from 14,000 metric tonne to 1.6 lakh metric tonne from 2000 to 2014, its cage culture - incubating fish in a controlled environment - has earned Jharkhand the tag of something like a mentor fisherman for other states.

Cage culture, introduced in 2011 experimentally at Ranchi's Hatia dam, is making waves nationally, drawing teams from across states to learn the technique and replicate it back home.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 24 Sep 2015 11:57

PRC firms to put in 8k crores into AP to build a solar cell manufacturing unit... in Sri city, which is coming along very well am told. It's trying to leverage Chennai's econ heft close by, clearly. Univs, hospitals and now some high end manufacturing too. Great going!

China's LONGi inks pact with Andhra Pradesh to invest Rs 1,670 crore

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 11 Oct 2015 05:07

Jharkhand CM impatient for change - 'Focus on growth; new norms for good governance in place, results will be visible in 3 months'

A man of few words whom the Prime Minister Narendra Modi found time to certify as " safal aur lokpriya mukhyamantri (successful and popular CM)" during his October 2 public address at Khunti, the chief minister is bold enough to declare that the tangible benefits of some of the new policies and changes introduced in the administration would be felt on the ground within three months, coinciding with the time his government completes a year in office on December 28.

After all, it is during his tenure that Jharkhand finds itself catapulted to third position - behind only Gujarat and Andhra Pradesh - in an Ease of Business survey carried out by World Bank Group, Confederation of Indian Industry (CII) and Federation of Indian Chamber of Commerce and Industry (Ficci) for the Centre's department of industrial policy and promotion.

Not only has the state government cut administrative flab by pruning departments to 29 from 43, it has also set in place several policies in key ministries of commerce and labour in an effort to create an atmosphere conducive to attracting industry.

"I am sure you will see a difference on the ground soon, within the next three months," Das told The Telegraph at his Kanke Road residence.

It is remarkable that Das is able to maintain focus on development, having put behind him a crisis in Ranchi barely three weeks ago when the capital was shut down for a couple of days over violence and social tension stemming from an alleged attempt to defile a place of worship. This was around the time similar trouble was reported from a few other districts, including Lohardaga, West Singhbhum and Gumla.

Asked who was responsible, especially for the Ranchi shutdown on September 25, 26 and again on September 29, days before the Prime Minister's visit to Khunti and Dumka, and the chief minister's face turned cold.

"Such people have been identified... I will expose them," he said firmly.

"Now, our main challenge is to ensure peaceful festivities. No one has the right to disturb peace. I will never allow them to do so."

The chief minister wants bureaucrats to follow a certain work ethic too, having issued an express order to force non-performing officials above 50 to retire early.

"There is no need of people who warm chairs and sit in offices doing nothing," he said.

Das dismissed talk of dissension within his cabinet, saying that it was perhaps for the first time in Jharkhand's chequered history that cabinet meetings were being held regularly and decisions taken. However, he admitted that since most of his ministers were first-timers, they needed a little more time to get used to the ways of governance.

"Remember, the nature and signature of individuals can never change. But, even such people will fall in line gradually," he said about at least one cabinet colleague who has, time again, been critical, at times unfairly, of the government's functioning, especially during the recent unrest in Ranchi and earlier in Jamshedpur.

Das said he preferred to stay focused on the course of development, elaborating how his government was busy completing formalities of administrative clearances and funds sanctions for upgrading infrastructure like roads, bridges and irrigation projects, keeping in mind that work could begin only after the monsoon.

"We are also going to launch several new projects during Statehood Day celebrations on November 15," he said, among them, setting up solar power outlets with the aim of generating 1,200MW during the current fiscal. The ultimate goal, he claimed, was to ensure that all government offices ran on solar power.

Saving energy through the use of LED bulbs and promoting new industries, particularly food processing units, were his immediate priorities.

"On November 15, people living in 40 towns across the state would be given LED bulbs at highly subsidised rates. By March 2016, these would be made available to people living in rural areas and by March 2017, the entire state would be lit up with LED bulbs," he added.

As of now, according to the state power conglomerate, of the 32,000 villages of Jharkhand, 21,440 (67 per cent) have electricity.

The chief minister also hinted that perhaps for the first time the state had a firm grip on left wing extremism and that activity of Maoists and their splinters had been considerably curbed. One indication of that came in the form of a recent cabinet decision, wherein financial incentive for a Maoist to surrender had been hiked four times, from Rs 25 lakh to Rs 1 crore.

"Maoists made a dent in the Palamau area while fighting against feudalism. Most of them were from backward communities. They spread to Kolhan and Chhotanagpur, and now to a certain extent in Santhal Pargana, championing lack of development," Das explained, but insisted that the ground realities had finally changed.

"Their fight in Jharkhand is no longer based on ideology. They have also stopped getting logistical support from poor village folk. However, there are some splinter groups primarily involved in extortion. They too would be wiped out soon," Das said.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Oct 2015 09:43

Compulsory retirement clause, not much in use previously, would send shivers down the spine of non performing bureaucrats. I think this is a good initiative to cut the flab and improve the administration. I hope this is not used as an instrument to play favourite and vindictive action against honest and hard working officers which are anyway few and far between and at the receiving end most of the time.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 11 Oct 2015 19:58

Came across an interesting blog by an amateur historian with an interesting article on W.Bengal.

How did Bengal Lose its Pole Position in India?

Never went into depths of why my home state ended up so badly. Insightful.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 11 Oct 2015 20:09

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:Came across an interesting blog by an amateur historian with an interesting article on W.Bengal.

How did Bengal Lose its Pole Position in India?

Never went into depths of why my home state ended up so badly. Insightful.

The analysis doesn't hold. Bengal was still among the most industrialized and developed states in India at Independence. So the reason for its decline don't lie before 1947. Bengal was killed by socialism of Nehru and communism of Jyoti Basu. This led to alienation from the Hindu roots and contempt of private enterprise (trade and manufacturing was the life-blood of ancient Bengal). Matters were worsened by Bengalis' pretentious obsession with culture and intellectualism at the expense of economic matters. The result = economic refugees in own country.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 11 Oct 2015 22:10

I cant read that link. So cant read whether it touches the issue.

Actually the industrialization in Bengal was different from other areas. Industrialisation in Bengal was inspite of the British and in the face racism. The local Bengalis were also not part of it. They were attempting to come in early 1800s (Tagore's family) but they went into losses and the 1857 revolution completely put paid. The industrialisation then was dominated by Europeans, 90% jute mills controlled by Irish. It was challenged by Marwaris in 1920s - Birla being the numero uno among them. Most of the "swadeshi josh" industries by Bengalis went into decline during depression. Contrast this with other two centres - There was some support in Bombay and benign neglect for ahmedabad.

This movement of capital from Calcutta to Delhi (loss of middle class jobs) + no local industrialists = declining middle class. Add on to that partition (in addition to refugees, jute growing areas in East Pak, industries in WB) + famine blow = there was no way Bengal could have sustained it.

Ofcourse the rot by communists meant they destroyed it instead of atleast trying to maintain the existing industries.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 11 Oct 2015 22:13

^ +100. There was no home grown entrepreneurs and outside talent never came in like to other places in India in droves. The governance during the continuous left rule for decades the last nail in the coffin for WB.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 11 Oct 2015 22:23

Infact the lack of Bengali industrialists from my amateur analysis is one of the prime reasons why Bose was defeated in the intra-party tussle with Gandhi/Patel/Nehru.

SCB didnt have money bags/industrialists backing him. He could only rise in opposition to the local industrialists (Marwaris) and if he rose that way, why would they support him at the national level. Bose unlike Nehru, Gandhi worked a lot at local level - compared to them who almost immediately got plonked as national leaders. So this group didnt have such an opposing group. So the base of his local support meant his defeat at national level.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 11 Oct 2015 22:47

Bengal still has plenty of home grown (science and engg) talent for massive industrialization when compared to other states. It is sad to see it not being utilized for a variety of reasons. Just imagine the kind of resources that Bengaluru attracts invested in Bengal. It will happen again in the near future. If the British could do it half a century ago, there is no reason it cannot be repeated again.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 12 Oct 2015 18:34

As far as I can remember WB was no. 2 behind MH even in the 50s although as rightly pointed out the industrialists and businessmen were mostly non-Bengalies. WB was a magnet for immigrants like what happened to MH and is now happening to NCR, Bglore, Pune, etc. Even under INC Nehruvian socialism things were going at par with MH under the able leadership of BC Roy who is still considered to be a visionary. The Communists totally killed the economy and the INC did not help out. With Mamata's current land policy rapid industrialization doesn't seem likely. So WB is going to suffer for some more time till it elects parties who promote the economy and industrialization and development.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 Oct 2015 18:38

mamata is on record saying stuff like 'setting up egg-roll & chowmein shops is also industrialization'. go figure.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Oct 2015 20:33

The communist got turfed out in part when they did try to industrialize. Many posters came on to BRF and said categorically that WB is not for industrialization as it is 3 crop land, well watered, etc etc etc. You would have thought we were back in the 1950's.

None of the areas that have failed to give up the idea of agriculture as the commanding heights as be all and end all have gone anywhere...

I would even settle for egg-roll and chow mein factories and shops at this point... ..it is a step forward...

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 12 Oct 2015 20:52

Well the Communists misfired on two counts. First, they did land reforms to a certain extent and even gave land to illegal Bdeshis. The struggle over land became a centerpiece of the communist movement. This is specially true for "udhbastus" or refugees from Bdesh who number at least 10 million. They already lost everything once and land or whatever they got became their sole source of existence. In the 2000s the CPIM suddenly realized that there was no alternative to industrialization and development to perpetuate their rule. For this they needed land but they failed to explain or convince the people why land was needed after so much violent agitation over right to land. They didn't have the luxury of the Chinese CCP to forcibly acquire land. That was the first problem. The second was that they didn't give much thought on how to acquire the land using innovative methods as done elsewhere and thought using the "harmad' (communist militia) was good enough. The rural people had no idea of development and they were not explained why development, etc were necessary. That was their second problem. The good thing is the Communists were gotten rid off. Now the challenge before WB is to find the right person and party to lead it to progress. Mamata is not the right person as she leads a party of goondas. May be we have to wait for another 10-15 yrs for that. Unless ofcourse the goondagiri reaches higher levels forcing the people to re-elect the Communists.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Oct 2015 21:23

Suprantik,

Good luck with that. There is no consensus even on BRF on these items. If we can't even get a consensus on BRF, how are you going to pull this off in the heartland... ...industry comes before a consensus, and then the success of industry builds a new consensus. But yes definitely an argument needs to be made on the national scale for more reform. An argument that is missing at the moment....
-------------------

What did the commie's in was mamata demagoguery. The commie's had won WRT the nano factory, and things were going relatively well, most of the land owners had sold and were looking for jobs in the factory..... ..and the mamata began her drama baazi and communists had no counter to the TV/Media warfare....

World over the communists have been champions of industry, with sometimes mixed results, I think you will need a reformed version of them to push through this gordian knot...

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 12 Oct 2015 21:30

Communists have not been uniformly champions of industry e.g. in Cambodia and Vietnam until recently. They certainly were not in WB. As for Mamata I don't see how a goonda party with such a land policy can industrialize WB. For Bengal's and India's sake I hope the Communists never return. It has to be INC or BJP.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 12 Oct 2015 21:59

There is something about the communists in W Bengal which makes them more radical. I am talking about the SFI equivalent I had the displeasure of interacting with both in KL and WB and comparing them. Some I knew have reformed or just dormant as they are in mid-life career building and ghar grahasti. Then like in MH/Mumbai there was this parochial under-currents which also contributed to the outside talent not sticking around. But this was the least seen in the SFI supporters as they had a broader world view. So it was a mixed bag. All this is limited to city experience. As for rural Bengal most people from outside of Bengal would have no direct knowledge of its functioning. My small excursions not far from the city itself told me of poverty at the level not witnessed in KL even in the early 80s or 70s.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 12 Oct 2015 23:02

Rahul M wrote:mamata is on record saying stuff like 'setting up egg-roll & chowmein shops is also industrialization'. go figure.

Alert: BENIS worthy materialSorry could not resist this on our CM's way to get industry and investment.

Mods please excuse this time

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Oct 2015 23:13

Bade wrote:There is something about the communists in W Bengal which makes them more radical.
My small excursions not far from the city itself told me of poverty at the level not witnessed in KL even in the early 80s or 70s.

You could say the same thing for much of the heartland. Coming from TN it is shock to me to see the levels of deprivation and sheer abandonment in these areas, esp. since I remember a time when TN was similarly destitute and prone on its back.

The same commies operate in TN too but they have never managed to pick up more than 10% of the vote. I have always wondered how that is possible. If the commies should have taken root anywhere in India, it should have been TN, yet the people themselves rejected the ideas. Back when I was in college, the local KL students federation randomly organized a strike. Not a single TN student joined up AFAIK and the strike was complete failure. The local police did a lathi charge and the strikers were scattered far and wide…

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 12 Oct 2015 23:23

Theo, one also needs to remember that a lot of radical ideas seen in WB also was partly there and useful for the Indian freedom movement. Was there any similar large scale participation in TN or even in KL during those time to evict the Brits. So I would like to give WB a pass on that strain developed during the long path to freedom. It also morphed with the stronger feudal system in practice in WB in collusion with the British Raj of the times. WB has seen a lot when compared to TN as a result of its recent history of the last 200 years and even before that. Partition of Bengal also lead to mass migration.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Oct 2015 23:41

That’s as good an idea as any I have heard.

TN did have problems with british WRT industry. Remember VOC, who was bankrupted by the british. VOC & SS both were big time agitators and organized strikes at all the british companies in TN. Yet after independence folks gave up radicalism and returned to normal economy within a short period. If you see Tamil films of the period, the universal bad guy was the factory owner or the mill owner or the rich industrialist. Yet even this did not radicalize people. In TN mostly people don’t mind taxing the rich heavily but there is no taste for destroying them, yes even the corrupt...

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 13 Oct 2015 00:01

To stop the communists, my amateur analysis says that a local business elite is needed to oppose them. This elite actively try to destroy the us vs them narrative which the communists spin.

What are the business and industrial communities of Kerala in british India?

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 13 Oct 2015 00:08

Not much I would gather, as the state of KL was agrarian, even more than WB. Even the migrants to Sri Lanka and Malaysia were mainly in vocations related to agriculture I believe. I cannot think of any large scale industry other than the plantations (tea) in the hills.

KL during British Raj was mostly divided, with a huge chunk within the Madras Presidency or ruled by. So people voted with their feet to areas of present day TN for opportunities, if looking for employment.

Another way to look at it in KL context, is when feudalism broke down (which was the biggest industry) there was no replacement for it in place already... modern day entrepreneurs... Bengal had the opportunity but did not run with it, whereas KL never had the trained manpower to jump start it.