Physics Discussion Thread

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Amber G.
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Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Amber G. » 14 Mar 2014 10:48

^^^ Please watch your email. You can remove the above message after that.

Abhijit
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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Abhijit » 16 Mar 2014 10:55

Amber G. wrote:^^^ Please watch your email. You can remove the above message after that.

Amber ji, pl. check your email. Thanks a million for your response.

Amber G.
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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Amber G. » 01 Apr 2014 20:21

In the news..
Image

Amber G.
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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Amber G. » 01 Apr 2014 21:25

Very Intersecting announcement from CERN's official Website..
http://home.web.cern.ch/about/updates/2014/04/cern-switch-comic-sans

CERN to switch to Comic Sans
From today, all of CERN's official communication channels are switching to exclusive use of the font Comic Sans. The move comes after weeks of deliberation by CERN management and top web designers about how best to update the image of the laboratory for this, its 60th anniversary year.
"This is an important year for CERN and we wanted to make a bold visual statement," says CERN Head of Communications James Gillies. "We thought the most effective way to communicate our research into the fundamental structure of matter at the very boundaries of technology was by changing the font." For Gillies, Comic Sans says: 'This is a serious laboratory, with a serious research agenda.' - "And it makes the letters look all round and squishy," he adds.
Following the viral success of ATLAS spokesperson Fabiola Gianotti's presentation on 4 July 2012 announcing the discovery a new particle consistent with the Higgs boson, Gillies scrambled a team of emergency typographers to work towards the change. Working in shifts night and day for over a year, they deconstructed Gianotti's presentation at the very tiniest level to study its fundamental structure. They then came up with a sophisticated statistical model to separate the font from the background content.
"According to our calculations, 80% of the success of the presentation came not from the discovery of a fundamental particle that explains the Brout-Englert-Higgs mechanism for how particles get mass, but from the choice of font," says presentation analyst May Dupp, who worked closely with comic-book artists and circus clowns to lead the change. "It's a logical step – and plain common sense – to apply this technique to all of CERN's communications."
CERN Director-General Rolf Heuer ensured the success of the project by declaring the work "5 sigma" - highest priority on the 5-point scale that particle physicists use to assign certainty to the choice of fonts.
And it all comes down to a moment of insight from Gianotti. "When preparing my Higgs presentation, at first, I had Georgia on my mind," she says. "But when I saw the closely spaced, slightly squishy rounded characters in my drop-down menu, I knew in my heart that Comic Sans was the right way to go."
The change of font is the first in a series of proposals ratified by management to update CERN's image, including suggestions such as adding a selfie of Justin Bieber to the CERN logo and rebuilding the LHC in the shape of a triangle. CERN management also decreed that especially important physics results would from now on be accompanied online by animations of little clappy hands.

SriKumar
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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby SriKumar » 02 Apr 2014 07:35

^^^ Indeed, an interesting development, but it is not as impressive as this development, coincidentally about a year ago. CERN needs to seeks its inspiration from GOI (or TOI) viewtopic.php?p=1433001#p1433001
The Awara Muon Imaging Neutrino Tank is pretty impressive (also, the heroine was pretty, and the movie was impressive). Per the news article, the AMINT was to be completed by April 2014.

Amber G.
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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Amber G. » 02 Apr 2014 20:26

:)
(BTW the previous "brf story" of last year was read by one of CV Raman's nephew and it made him laugh)

But on a serious note wrt INO (India's Neutrino Observatory to study atmospheric neutrinos in a deep cave near Theni), the recent delay of a go-ahead from the Indian Cabinet is quite demoralizing for Indian (and other) scientists.

Meanwhile big news last week - China announced that they have started constructing their own huge JUNO (Jiangmen Underground Neutrino Observatory - near Honk Kong) - very similar to India;s -- which may actually finish (2020) before India's (if India does not wake up).

China to build a huge underground neutrino experiment

johneeG
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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby johneeG » 03 Apr 2014 23:59

Build Your Own Water Powered Car
Build Your Own
Hydrogen & Oxygen Generator

– That does not use brute-force electrolysis -
Run Your Car On Tap Water! *
Build a Hydrogen Powered Car

* A cannister, under the hood, containing electrodes (about 1.5 mm apart), is (almost) filled with water. The water is separated into hydrogen and oxygen, on demand, when the engine is started, and the hydrogen produced is directed into the engine through the air intake, which may or may not be mixed with gasoline, sprayed in, also. The hydrogen, a gas, explodes, completely, 100%, not just some small percentage like the liquid gasoline (or diesel) being sprayed in with it.

Gasoline, the liquid, does not explode in your engine, either.
Liquid gasoline, or diesel, is sprayed into the engine. Of that, the small amount that vaporizes off the surface, (abt. 10-15%?) explodes with the force needed to move the pistons and turn the crankshaft. Of that small percentage which vaporizes and produces energy, 65% is wasted as heat. Additional small percentages are lost in the drive train, etc. Most of the gasoline, still a liquid, is now hot enough to vaporize, react chemically (the oxygen has been consumed, even creating carbon monoxide), cool, and go out the tail-pipe as smog: soot, – toxic air pollution – stuff that poisons us and overheats our planet. Thank you “big oil”! … If interested, read
How The Oil Co’s First Took Over
A.K.A. The Oil Age That Never Should Have Been
A Better Hydrogen Generator

Instead of brute-force electrolysis, the traditional “sledge-hammer” approach, small, tuned, pulses are generated, like a tuning fork shatters a wine glass, with very little effort, not “free energy”, but smart, elegant, and cheap; instead of brute-force, crude, and expensive.

from Dave Lawton
“There is a very simple way to doing this WHOLE water powered system on 0.5 Amp!”

There are many people selling kits and others in business installing them:
google search: “hydrogen generator Installation services”
We don’t know enough to trust any kits:
google search: “hho generator reviews” and “hydrogen generator reviews”
The parts are cheap and these instructions have been found free. We offer these free instructions as it may be safer (certainly cheaper) to simply build your own. Keep it simple.

If this is still too complex, go to our Super Carburetors page. If getting 200+ mpg is good enough, then “go for it”.

from Stanley Meyer’s project:
“The electrodes are vibrated with a 0.5 to 5 amp electrical pulse (depending on your speed and acceleration) which breaks 2(H2O) => 2H2 + O2. When the pressure reaches say 30-60 psi, you turn the key and go. When you step on the pedal, you send more energy to the electrodes, and thus more vapor to the cylinders; i.e. fuel vapor on demand.”

An extract from the lecture given by Admiral Sir Anthony Griffin to the Maritime Division of the Southampton Institute, Warsash, UK, Sept. of 1993:
“Electrical power with opposite polarities is applied in pulses to the inner and outer cylinders and at a power of 10 watts, i.e. 5 volts at 2 amps. A considerable quantity of gas immediately accumulates in the top of the vessel and, within 10 seconds, reaches a pressure of about 10 pounds per square inch.” or . . . apply “very high voltage (20,000+) pulses at a particular frequency, within positively and negatively charged voltage zones, at a very low current of less than 1 milliamp. The effect is … the covalent bonds between the hydrogen and oxygen atoms are broken and the two gases separated.”
car gasoline fire
gasoline fires are very dangerous and
difficult to put out

Ronn Motors, Dennis Klein, Francisco Pacheco, Stanley Meyer, Daniel Dingel and others have all done it with their designs
see the history of Water Powered Cars

Example: Dennis Klein went 100 miles on 4 oz of water. (25 mi./oz.) We should be able to go at least 1 or 2 mi on an oz. of gasoline, don’t you think! (=128 mpg or =256mpg) We don’t because it has not been converted to a gas first. See our pages here on super carburetors. [by the way, 1 gal. = 128 fluid oz. ! . . and . . . Anyone who remembers their basic chemistry knows that 1 gallon of a liquid equates to about 1,000 gallons of it as a gas - in the gaseous state. :: 1 gal of water = around 1000 gal of hydrogen gas at normal room temp. and pressure.]

[Suggestion, just build the cannister and enough parts of the controller to generate the ultra sound frequency. Then, getting it to work, build the rest of the controller]

Daniel Dingel has run his car(s) for a number of years totally on water, also
Dennis Klein has run his car on water with and without a gasoline “supplement” — His “water mileage” was about 25 miles per ounce without any gas supplement. (3000+ mpg!) He was working with the military and the state of Tennessee.
“After Dennis was approached by auto manufactures and the US Government, the story changed.” -Charrington, May 29, 2007
“It is all over” Dennis is out of his co.. The oil monopoly has taken it over.

1935 – Inventor Henry Garrett patented a electrolytic carburetor and let a car run on tap water.

The late Henry “Dad” Garrett was a multi-talented Dallas inventor with a bent for electrical contrivances, and in 1935, he and his son, C.H. Garrett, patented and exhibited an automobile that ran on water — actually, on hydrogen after the water was broken down by electrolysis.

Dad Garrett was already famous for his work. In 1920 he set up WRR in Dallas, the world’s first municipal radio station, and was its first announcer. He was the first man to build a radio in his car, and he developed radio transmission from the car for police use. He also invented an automatic electric traffic signal, possibly the nation’s first.

On September 8, 1935, The Dallas Morning News first announced that the water-fuel concept worked — at least it worked for “several minutes,” the article reported. A few months later, Pathe’ News filmed the car driving along Garland Road with the driver stopping at White Rock Lake to fill the fuel tank with water before cruising off.

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The Plan

Build and install a low-cost alternative method for running your vehicle (internal combustion engine) on tap water, using off-the-shelf components.

This is supposed to be an efficient way to convert ordinary tap water into gaseous hydrogen and oxygen, and then burn these vapors in the engine, instead of gasoline.

This “minisystem” runs easily from your existing battery and electrical system, and it plugs into your carburetor [Fuel Injectors] with simple off-the-shelf fittings.

You will be installing a plastic water tank, a control circuit, a reaction chamber, a hi-pressure carb/FI fitting, and 3 gauges, and then hooking into your existing carb/FI. [Fuel Injectors]

The simplicity comes from its being an “on-demand” system requiring no fancy storage or plumbing. You crank the gas pedal or throttle, and you electrically [/sonicly] create more vapor for immediate consumption, on demand; low-high flow rate as needed, from idle to maximum power. The change is that you are using tap water as fuel, instead of the traditional petroleum-based fuel.
H2O –> H2 + O2
Frequently Asked Questions

Q: How does it qualify as “free energy”?

A: If you’re paying someone for the water you use, then it is not strictly free. But it’s close enough.

Q: Is it safe?

A: It is safer than running on fossil fuel. You are no longer choking on your own emissions (health-wise). You are no longer running the extreme risk of a gasoline fire or explosion! Additionally, you will be installing a few simple safety devices, using current automotive standards.
To put it another way, Hydrogen is just as explosive as Gasoline but nothing that is left over, does any harm to the environment: When hydrogen ‘burns’ it becomes pure water!
H2 + O2 –> H2O ( Technically, 2 molecules of hydrogen + 1 molecule of oxygen –> 2 molecules of water )

Q: What kind of performance can I expect?

A: Properly adjusted, your modified vapor-only fuel system will run cooler, and at a modestly higher power level. The mileage performance expected from this design ranges from 50-300 mpg (of water), depending on your adjusting skills.

Q: Can I do the modification myself?

A: Why not? If you don’t have any mechanical skills, and you know someone with basic mechanical and/or electrical skills, you can even delegate some of the construction. If you are using a fuel-injected engine, you may have to get a mechanic’s opinion. (There will have to be an adapter inserted into the fuel-injection system, just as you would have to do if you were going to run on propane, hydrogen, or natural gas. Spirit of Ma’at Ed.)

Q: What is the environmental impact that my vehicle will have?

A: It will be producing H20 (water vapor). Hence, it will be cleaning the environment, rather than dumping nauseous toxins into it. Plus you will be helping to save our dwindling supply of atmospheric oxygen. You can also help those around you do the same thing – as long as they have no stock in oil companies to protect – and don’t threaten you.

Q: Isn’t this really a steam engine?

A: No. Really. Exceedingly high temperature and pressure are not used. This is strictly an internal-combustion engine (burning hydrogen) with residual water-vapor (remember, the engine runs cooler than it did with gasoline) in the exhaust as a by-product.
Remember This

There are a few things you should remember about gasoline:

Gasoline poisons the atmosphere and, it is very toxic and dangerous!
Gasoline versus Water

Most people are unaware that “internal combustion” is defined as “a thermo-vapor process” – as in “no liquid in the reaction.” Most of the gasoline in a standard internal combustion engine is actually consumed, (cooked, and finally, broken down) in the catalytic converter after the fuel has been not-so-burnt in the engine. Sadly, this means that most of the fuel we use in this way is used only to cool down the combustion process, a pollution-ridden and inefficient means of doing that.
How It Works

Water is pumped as needed to replenish and maintain the liquid level in the chamber. The electrodes are vibrated with a 0.5-5A electrical pulse which breaks 2(H2O) => 2H2 + O2. When the pressure reaches say 30-60 psi, you turn the key and go. You step on the pedal, you send more energy to the electrodes, and thus more vapor to the cylinders; i.e. fuel vapor on demand.

You set the idle max-flow rate to get the most efficient use of power, and you’re off to the races.

In the big picture, your energy is coming from the tap water in an open system, as the latent energy in the water is enough to power the engine and hence drive the alternator and whatever belt-driven accessories. And the alternator is efficient enough to run the various electrical loads (10 – 20 amps), including the additional low current to run this vapor reaction. No extra batteries are required.
the Stanley Meyer generator

the radio frequency = 20,000 cps

The Orion Project is trying to buy his equipment and recreate Stan’s success

there are many youtube videos on several inventors who have succeeded:

Daniel Dingel, from the Philippines

Read about and see Fox News broadcast from youtube (welding torch + car fuel): Denny Klein’s hydrogen generator and hydrogen torch – in Clearwater, Florida

read the article and patent on the Pacheco Generator


electrical pulses, not brute force electrolysis

Where normal water electrolysis requires the passage of current measured in amps, this cell achieves the same effect in milliamps. Furthermore, ordinary tap water requires the addition of an electrolyte such as sulphuric acid to aid current conduction with the standard electrolysis approach; these cells function at greatest efficiency with plain tap water.

According to the witnesses, the most startling aspect of the Meyer cell was that it remained cold, even after hours of gas production.

Meyer’s experiments, which he seems to be able to perform to order, have earned him a series of US patents granted under Section 101. The granting of a patent under this section is dependent on a successful demonstration of the invention to a Patent Review Board.

Meyer’s cell seems to have many of the attributes of an electrolytic cell except that it functions at high voltage, low current rather than the other way around. Construction is unremarkable. The electrodes — referred to as “excitors” by Meyer — are made from parallel plates of stainless steel placed in either flat or concentric arrangements. (see the washers, on the right, for the simplest method) Gas production seems to vary as the inverse of the distance between them; the patents suggest a spacing of 1.5 mm produces satisfactory results.

A witness team of independent UK scientifc observers testified that US inventor Stanley Meyer successfully decomposed ordinary tap water into constituent elements through a combination of high, pulsed voltage using an average current measured only in milliamps. Reported gas evolution was enough to sustain a hydrogen /oxygen flame which instantly melted steel. (How Denny Klein got started – see video)

“We did notice that the water at the top of the cell slowly became discolored with a pale cream and dark brown precipitate, almost certainly the effects of the chlorine in the heavily chlorinated tap water…” … “We clearly saw how increasing and decreasing the voltage is used to control gas production. We saw how gas generation ceased and then began again instantly as the voltage driving circuit was switched off and then on again.”

The use of a high voltage spike alone (1500 volts+), without the current being delivered through the liquid, will not cause the disassociation to take place. Once Stan’s unit was made to begin breakdown (which takes 6 to 8 seconds) he was able to reduce both current and voltage to miniscule proportions.

There are two primary frequencies that produce the best results. They are: 14,372 Hz and 43,430 Hz. The former is about 50% more efficient, but it seems that just about any frequency between 9 KHz and 143,762 KHz works quite well. (1) This is because the nature of the wave form ( a spike ) is rich in harmonics and one of them is bound to be close to one of the two primary frequencies.

Meyer was apparently eating dinner at a Grove City OH restaurant, when it is reported that he jumped up from the table, yelled that he’d been poisoned”, and rushed out into the parking lot, where he collapsed and died. Theives came a week later and stole the the dune buggy and all of his experimental equipment, according to his twin brother, Stephen. Stan said while he was alive, that he was threatened many times and would not sell out to Arab Oil Corp`s. The Military was going to use this technology in their tanks, jeeps, etc. He had patents on his invention and was ready for production. Only $1,500 to equip your car! See the Videos above. No gasoline, just water. Stanley said he was offered a billion dollars from an Arab to basically shelf his idea. Stan said, “No”.
STEP BY STEP CONSTRUCTION

OVERVIEW – Here is the suggested sequence of steps:

1. Install the CHT (cylinder head temp) or EGT (exhaust gas temp) gauge and measure your current operating temp range (gasoline), for comparison.

2. Build and test the controller to verify the pulse output.

3. Build the reaction chamber and test it with the controller (i.e pressure out).

4. Install the tank, controller, chamber, and pressure fittings.

5. Run engine and adjust the control circuit as necessary for best performance.

6. Install stainless steel valves and get the pistons/cylinders coated with ceramic.
[editor's note: don't bother. Given Daniel Dingel (Stanley Meyer, Dennis Klein, ...) and all the other inventors and designs out there - none of them suggest or speak of it. Besides, get it working first.
Keep it simple.]

7. Dump the now pointless catalytic converter and, if your exaust pipe is
not stainless steel already, replace it with stainless steel pipe sections.
PARTS LIST

plastic water tank with pump and level sensor.

control circuit, wiring, connectors, and epoxy.

reaction chamber with electrodes and fittings.

3/8″ stainless steel flex-tubing, fittings and clamps.

carb / Fuel Injection vapor-pressure fitting kit. – pressure, CHT (cylinder head temp) or EGT (exhaust gas temp) and level gauges.

stainless steel valves.

copper mesh junction.

ceramic surface treatment for cylinders and pistons.

stainless steel or ceramic treated exhaust assembly.
BASIC TOOLS

drill, screwdriver and pliers

hole cutter

wire-wrap, solder-iron and clippers

digital voltmeter (DVM) and oscilloscope.

[youtube]LWSZNvyav3M&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00[/youtube]
[youtube]TTfmBaXcIbs&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00[/youtube]


REACTION CHAMBER

Construct as shown in the diagram. Use a section of 4″ PVC waste pipe with a threaded screw-cap fitting on one end and a standard end-cap at the other. Make sure to drill-and-epoxy or tap threads thru the PVC components for all fittings. Set and control the water level in the chamber so that it well submerses the pipe electrodes; yet leave some headroom to build up the hydrogen/oxygen vapor pressure. Use stainless steel wires inside the chamber (fig.s 2&5) or otherwise use a protective coating; use insulated wires outside. Ensure that the epoxy perfects the seal, or otherwise lay down a bead of water-proof silicone that can hold pressure.

The screw fitting may require soft silicone sealant, or a gasket; its purpose is to hold pressure and allow periodic inspection of the electrodes. No leaks, no problems. Make sure you get a symmetric 1-5mm gap between the 2 stainless steel pipes. The referenced literature suggests that the closer to 1 or 2 mm you get, the better. You will want to get your chamber level sensor verified before you epoxy the cap on.

Make your solder connections at the wire/electrode junctions nice, smooth, and solid; then apply a water-proof coating, e.g. the epoxy you use for joining the pipes to the screw cap. This epoxy must be waterproof and be capable of holding metal to plastic under pressure. You will want to get your chamber level sensor verified before you epoxy the cap on.

CONTROL CIRCUIT

The diagrams show a simple circuit [to an electrician] to control and drive this mini-system. You are going to make a ‘square-pulse’ signal that ‘plays’ the electrodes like a tuning fork; which you can watch on an oscilloscope. The premise given by the literature is: the faster you want do go down the road, the ‘fatter’ you make the pulses going into the reaction chamber. Duty cycle will vary with the throttle in the vicinity of 90%MARK 10%SPACE (OFF/ON).

There is nothing sacred about how the pulse waveform is generated; there are many ways to generate pulses, and the attached diagrams show a few. The NE555-circuit approach (see diagrams) is from the referenced patent. The output switching transistor must be rated for 1-5 amps @ 12VDC (in saturation).

Go with a plan that works for you or your friendly neighborhood technoid or mechanic, and go get all the circuit elements from your local electronics store, such as Radio-Shack or Circuits-R-Us, including the circuit board, IC sockets, and enclosure/box.

DigiKey has better selection, service, and knowledge; plus they have no minimum order. Be sure to use a circuit board with a built-in ground plane, and to accommodate room for mounting 2 or 3 of the gauges. Mounting the reaction chamber in the engine compartment will require running a stub to your pressure gauge where you can watch it.

You can easily make 30-gauge wire-wrap connections between the socket pins and thru-hole discrete components having wire leads. Also make sure to get spec sheets on any IC you use. More details of the best circuits to use will be announced pending prototype testing. You will want to get your chamber level sensor verified before you epoxy the cap on.

Throttle Control

If you have a throttle position sensor, you should be able to access the signal from the sensor itself OR from the computer connector. This signal is input to the circuit as the primary control (i.e. throttle level = pulse width = vapor rate).

If you don’t have such a signal available, you will have to rig a rotary POT (variable resistor) to the gas linkage (i.e. coupled to something at the gas pedal or throttle cable running to the carb or FI. If you make the attachment at the carb/FI, be sure to use a POT that can handle the engine temp cycles. Don’t use a cheezy-cheapy POT; get one rated for long life and mechanical wear; mount it securely to something sturdy and stationary that will not fall apart when you step on the gas.

Control Range. The full throttle RANGE (idle-max) MUST control the vapor rate, i.e. pulse-width (duty). The resistor values at the throttle signal must allow the throttle signal voltage, say 1-4 Volt swing, to drive the VAPOR RATE. You will be using this voltage swing to generate a 10% ON ‘square’ pulse. The patent implies using a ‘resonant’ pulse in the 10-250 KHz frequency range; but it is not explicitly stated so.

In this circuit, you will simply tune to whatever frequency makes the most efficient vapor conversion. You will have to get into the specs for each IC you use, to insure you connect the right pins to the right wires, to control the frequency and pulse width. You can use spare sockets to try out different discrete component values. Just keep the ones that are spec-compatible in the circuit, and get the job done.

You crank up the throttle signal and put more electrical energy (fatter pulses) into the electrodes; verify you can get 10% duty on the scope (2 – 100 usec on the horizontal time-base). Your averaging DVM (digital voltmeter) will display the 90%-10% DC voltage across the output transistor (Vce or Vds or Output to Ground). Set and connect DVM in the supply current and measure .5 – 5 amps, without blowing the DVM fuse. Now verify that you got everything you wanted.

Verify your wiring connections using your DVM as a continuity detector. Check your wiring 1 at a time and yellow line your final schematic as you go. You can best use board-mount miniature POTs for anything you want to set-and-forget. The LEDs are there to give you a quick visual check of normal vs abnormal operation of your new creation. You will want to get your chamber level sensor verified before you epoxy the cap on.

CARB/FI CONNECTION

The diagrams also show that fittings are required to the carb/FI l. There are ready-made kits (such as by Impco) available for making your pressure fittings to the carburetor or fuel-injector as the case may be. You will necessarily be sealing the built-in vents and making a 1-way air-intake.

The copper mesh comprises the inadvertent backfire’ protection for the reaction chamber. Make sure that all vapor/duct junctions are air-tight and holding full pressure without leakage. Your new ‘system’ is considered successful and properly adjusted when you get the full power range at lower temp and minimum vapor flow without blowing the pressure safety valve.

CHT (or EGT)

Monitor your engine temp with the CHT (cylinder head temp) or EGT (exhaust gas temp) instead of your original engine temp indicator (if any). Your existing gauge is too slow for this application and will not warn you against overheating until after you have burnt something. Make sure that your engine runs no hotter than in the gasoline arrangement. VDO makes a CHT gauge with a platinum sensor that fits under your spark plug against the cylinder head (make sure it is really clean before you re-install your spark plug (as this is also an electrical ground).

ENGINE/EXHAUST TREATMENT

Get the hydrogen working first, then, with headlines in the news, get a used aluminum block or have the valves replaced with stainless steel ones and get the pistons/cylinders ceramic-treated – again, after you have successfully converted and run your new creation. You could make max use of your current exhaust system by using it with your new deal until it rusts through, then have your mechanic or welder friend to fit a stainless steel exhaust pipe (no catalytic converter is required). But it could be easier and cheaper to send your existing exhaust system out for the ceramic treatment, and then simply re-attach it to the exhaust ports.

FLASHBACK ARRESTORS

Flashback arrestors are used to keep engine backfires from igniting whatever oxy-hydrogen gas is in the lines and the booster.

Arrestors keep burning gases from blowing through the tube. The three basic types are the valve-type (which uses suddenly increased air pressure in the tube to close a one-way valve); filter-types (some use bronze wool and others use permeable stone); and water bubblers. Home-made valve-type arrestors can be a bit difficult to calibrate, so if you’re going with a valve, you’d be safer just buying one.

For more info, do a google search on “hho Flashback arrestors”


GENERAL

1. Do not discard or remove any of the old gasoline setup components, e.g. tank, carb/FI, catalytic converter, unless necessary. Better to always leave an easy way to revert back to something that at least runs, just in case. Some people are leaving their gasoline setup completely intact, and switching back and forth at will, just to have a backup plan.

2. Set your throttle circuit so that you get minimum vapor flow at idle, and maximum vapor flow at full power without blowing the pressure relief valve. In this way, you control how ‘lean’ your mixture is by the strength of the pulse (i.e. “fatness” at the optimum pulse frequency).

3. If you just don’t get enough power (at any throttle setting), it means that you need to (1) change the pulse frequency, (2) change the gap between the electrodes, (3) change the size (bigger) electrodes, or (4) make a higher output pulse voltage (last resort). Always use an output transistor, such as a MOSFET, that is rated for the voltage and current you need to get the job done. OK so you might have to play around with it some. Isn’t that where all the Fun is anyhow?

4. If you get any engine knock our loud combustions (not compensated by adjusting the timing), it means that you need to install an additional coil in the chamber, and drive the coil with an additional pulse signal (about 19 Hz on the .1sec time base). Here, you will be slowing down the burn rate just enough so that the vapors burn thru out the power stroke of the piston. Be sure to include a board-mount POT to set the correct strength of this 2nd pulse signal into the coil. This is a stainless steel coil of about 1500 turns (thin wire) that you can arrange like a donut around the center pipe (but NOT touching either electrode), directly over the circular 1-5mm gap. You want no knocking at any power/throttle setting; smooth power only, but also no excess hydrogen leftover from the combustion.

5. Build the canister(s) as tall as you can without compromising your ability to mount them conveniently near the dash panel, or in the engine compartment, as the case may be. This way, you can always make the electrodes bigger, if necessary without undue hardship. Remember that anything in the engine compartment should be mounted in a bullet-proof, vibration and temperature tolerant fashion.

6. If you have to drill a thru-hole for wiring or plumbing thru metal, make sure to also install a grommet for protection against chafing. Always watch your chamber pressure range from IDLE (15-25 psi) – FULL POWER (30-60 psi). Set your safety-pressure relief-valve to 75 psi and make sure it’s rated for much higher.

7. Shut OFF the power switch and pull over if there is any malfunction of the system. Your engine will last longest when it still develops FULL POWER+ at some minimum temperature that we are sure you can find, by leaning back the Royal Vapor Flow and/or by making use of the water-vapor cooling technique. Keep good mpg performance records, and periodic maintenance/inspection. Keep it clean; save some money; clean the air; heal the planet; happy motoring; tell a friend; enjoy your freedom and self-empowerment.

8. There lacks documented material for perfecting this vapor system thru a fuel injector; there may be some details you will discover on your own as working prototypes progress. For example, you may be restricted to inject the hydrogen/oxygen vapor without any water vapor, as it may rust the injectors. If engine temp and CHT is a problem, then you will want to re-think your plan, e.g. ceramic-coating the injectors. There is always “replacing the FI system with a Carb.”

9. If you install the water-vapor system (for lower operating temp/stress), you will want to lean the mixture (vapor/air) for minimum vapor flow rate to achieve any given throttle position (idle – max). Make sure that you get a minimum flow for IDLE and a modestly sufficient flow for MAX, that does the cooling job without killing the combustion.

10. If you cannot find stainless steel pipe combinations that yield the 1-5mm gap, you can always regress back to alternating plates of +/- electrodes.

11. If you are concerned about the water freezing in your system, you can (a) add some 98% isopropyl alcohol and re-adjust the pulse frequency accordingly; or (b) install some electric heating coils.

HHOi under pressure into fuel rail may be the key to running vehicles on water and air

The onboard electrolysis unit, powered by the vehicle’s battery/alternator, produces an ionized hydroxy gas [HHOi] (the hydrogen and oxygen are not separated) that is injected under pressure (30 – 60 psi) into the fuel rail, and is able to keep the engine running.

The longest Rick has kept his Jeep going like this so far has been around 2.5 hours before it died. During that time, Rick was able to rev the engine via the accelerator pedal up and down, including to 3,000 rpms. It didn’t ever backfire. Somehow the car’s computer is able to compensate for the different fuel, and increase and decrease the speed the engine runs in response to the changing pedal position, just as it would if gasoline were running the vehicle. Perhaps the variation in airflow with the varying throttle positions with the pedal changes is what regulates the engine speed in this case. Also, the Jeep computer’s knock sensor automatically adjusts the timing of the engine to handle the HHOi gas. Rick was amazed to watch his gauge show the timing change on his Jeep.

The odd thing is that the rate of hydroxy gas production was constant, and was not governed to correspond to the increase or decrease in engine load. Nor is the rate of water consumption at a rate that present physics would predict would be needed for the water to be serving as fuel. Nor is the rate of electrical consumption in producing the hydroxy gas proportional to the amount of power manifest in idling the vehicle for that long. One of the pioneer researchers in the field, George Wiseman, points out that to be practical, the Brown’s gas (HHO or hydroxy) production will need to be nominally in proportion to the load requirement.

These attributes are similar to what Freddy reported, except he allegedly was running his friend’s pickup truck under load – driving down the road, speeding up and slowing down. Rick hopes to get to that point some time this week, with the help of an associate who is flying in to help out. If they get it running well, Rick would like to drive down to where I live and show it off to me.

… the hydroxy gas that both Freddy and Rick are allegedly producing is being called “HHOi”, the “i” symbolizing “ionized.” This is a term that James Sharp coined, and which Freddy has picked up


Ionized Air as Fuel Contributor

On Saturday morning, Rick called me up to report that he tried running just straight air with an air compressor into the fuel rail on his Jeep, and that it actually idled for 2-3 minutes that way. He was wondering if whatever leftover fuel that is in the system might be enough to enable it to run that long.

Because of some other situations I know of, I postulated that it may be that the pressurized air itself could be contributing to the fuel component — with petrol in this case, and with HHOi in the above set-up.

I know of another researcher who claims that several years ago he was able to get his car to run on air alone after getting above 15 mph — that the pressure of the incoming air was enough, and there was enough energy in the air from solar power ionizing molecules in the air, and his engine had enough of a combustion efficiency to actually utilize the air as fuel under that low pressure and flow. He temporarily abandoned this effect to first pursue something not so disruptive and difficult for people to believe.

This week I got a phone call from another researcher, this one saying that he got his Papp engine running, and that the fuel source is . . . air. He doesn’t want coverage yet, but we are in process of checking out his claim, as he invited us to come see it. The reason I feel compelled to mention it here is that the Papp engine process may be similar to the effect we’re discussing here.

pesn.com/2010/09/27/9501707_HHOi_under_pressure_into_fuel_rail_running_vehicles_on_water_and_air/


http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?page_id=927Link


Haven't seen the videos, but posting it because it sounds interesting. Since, the link says that one can build it and test it oneself, I am posting it.

Generally, whenever the possibility of such a car is talked about, people talk of thermodynamics laws. But, since this particular article claims that each person can build it for himself and since he does not seem to be selling anything, it is interesting. So, is it possible to build a vehicle that runs on water(if not completely, than atleast uses water to supplement the fuel)?

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Vayutuvan » 04 Apr 2014 00:28

Very difficult to believe and yes theromodynamics would be the reason. Also if he is not selling anything he can certainly make the design available on share and share alike license or there is this open hardware project whose license with proper modification can be used. I am sure there will be several law firms that would be line up to do it pro bono or he can contact Lessig, IIRC, who is FLOSS favorite.
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 04 Apr 2014 10:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Amber G. » 04 Apr 2014 07:40

^^^ This, of course, is old news. Many people have been using this in back roads in Rajasthan and Tamilnadu since 1963.

Even in a country as backward as US we have (click on the picture to read the whole story) Herman and his water powered Chevy Cavalier. 1971.
He could drive it, (unfortunately it is not lawful to manufacture this discovery in the State of Tennessee)
Image

Instead of using ordinary Hydrogen, he uses Deuterium thus providing twice the energy (because there are two protons instead of one).

Some twenty years (20 years and 2 days to be exact.. it was April 1, 1994) I modified, so instead of using chemical energy, the deuterium uses nuclear fusion thus providing 20,000,000 times more energy per gram. This way even in Thar desert, where water is not plentiful, just a spoon-full of D2O is enough to run the car for decades. (Only .01 gm out of 5 grams of D2O has been used).

Here is a story from Popular Scince about a similar nuclear fusion car..

Deuterium DIY: Homemade Nuclear Fusion Reactor Car

It is not really that complicated, all you need to know are just 2 basic formulas:
D + D = T + p + 3.02 MeV
T+p = He + n + 2.45 MeV
So you get about 5.45 Mev = 5450000 eV. compare this with 13.6 eV you get by old fashioned simple H2O car using electrolysis. So just a spoon (5mg) is equivalent to about 2 TONS of gasoline.

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Bade » 07 Apr 2014 03:24

An elusive detector for an elusive particle :(
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 852820.ece
So, while the Indian scientific community is ready to work with an indigenously designed detector, the delay of a go-ahead from the Cabinet becomes demoralising because we automatically lose time and access to resources from potential investors.

“This is why we’re calling it an India-based observatory, not an Indian observatory, because we seek foreign collaborators in terms of investment and expertise,” says G. Rajasekaran, former joint director of IMSc, who is involved in the INO project.

On the other hand, China appears to have been both prescient and focussed on its goals. It purchased companies manufacturing the necessary components in the last five years, developed the detector technology in the last 24 months, and was confident enough to announce completion in barely six years. Thanks to its Daya Bay experiment holding it in good stead, JUNO is poised to be an international collaboration, too. Institutions from France, Germany, Italy, the U.S. and Russia have evinced interest in it.

Beyond money, there is also a question of credibility. Once Cabinet approval for INO comes through, it is estimated that digging the vast underground cavern to contain the principal neutrino detector will take five years, and the assembly of components, another year more. We ought to start now to be ready in 2020.

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby SaiK » 07 Apr 2014 03:53

can they answer at least from the objective to summary and conclusion to benefit indic science orcommunity?
--
there - corrected my typo - no or.
Last edited by SaiK on 07 Apr 2014 09:58, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Bade » 07 Apr 2014 03:54

what phuck is indic science ? There is only science period.

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Bade » 09 Apr 2014 22:56

http://www.newsdaily.com/article/bcea9b ... ta-storage
HELSINKI (AP) — British-American physicist Stuart Parkin has won the 1 million-euro ($1.3 million) Millennium Technology Prize for discoveries leading to a thousand-fold increase in digital data storage on magnetic disks.

His discoveries enabled cloud services and the online distribution of social networks, music and film.

The Finnish foundation on Wednesday cited the 58-year-old director of the IBM-Stanford spintronic science center in California as an innovator who helped make "our contemporary online world largely possible." Spintronics relies on the magnetic spin of electrons rather than their charge to store bits.

The biennial technology award was initiated in 2004 by the Finnish government and industry for "innovations that improve the quality of people's lives."

Previous winners include Japan's Shuji Nakamura for laser research and Tim Berners-Lee for inventing the World Wide Web.

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby SaiK » 04 Jul 2014 08:48



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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Neshant » 29 Jul 2014 07:04

I donated $2 to towards the construction of a Tesla tower in Russia. But to be frank, I barely understand the science behind it.

I think its something about charging the Tesla coil with a specific harmonic to induce energy transmission. But I had smoke coming out of my ears trying to understand the theories of the Russian physicists behind this project.

By the way, Nicola Tesla was a follower of Swami Vivekanada - the first swami to hit the shores of the US in the early 1900s. He was fascinated with mysticism.

That aside, Tesla was clearly well ahead of his time having invented just about every aspect of electronics that we take for granted today. His Wardencliff Tower project which banker JP Morgan initially financed by then stopped could not be completed in his lifetime. Its supposedly meant to transfer power to any point on Earth through the air (like radio waves).

This project is aimed to re-create Tesla's experiment using modern day materials & tools.

What do you top guns in physics think? Is it a sound idea or did I waste $2.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/let- ... /x/8103788

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby SaiK » 05 Aug 2014 03:18

Nasa engineers confirmed that they had produced tiny amounts of thrust from an engine without propellant — an apparent violation of the conservation of momentum; the law of physics that states that every action must have an equal and opposite reaction.

'Cannae Drive' - anyone?

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Amber G. » 05 Aug 2014 09:04

This should be taken with a healthy dose of salt..

The device, known as a Cannae Drive, reading from the article given above, breaches the principle of conservation of momentum as close to a fundamental law of the universe as you’re likely to find... IMO nonsensical sub-Star-Trek level technobabble... at least that is what the technical paper sounds like.. unless I am missing something..

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby member_28640 » 07 Aug 2014 17:59

Maybe it has to with differing radiation pressures at both the ends of the Q-Cavity (Notice the higher efficiency when higher performance Q-Cavities are used) Just a laymans guess.. Peer reviews have been trying for 14 years to discredit it, but still are not able to.. Maybe, just maybe ...

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Neshant » 09 Aug 2014 09:51

I heard something about NASA testing ion (wind?) engines developed by the Russians. Testing it in a joint venture with them but this was in the early 2000s. Its for space travel where the ion winds generate a slight thrust allowing a "no-propellant" type engine.

Maybe its that.

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Amber G. » 12 Aug 2014 11:11

^^^ ION propulsion does not violate momentum conservation (in fact it depends on that) and is nothing in common with the above.

ION propulsion, BTW, Idea came in 1911 (! Tsiolkovsky) or even earlier.. there were working models..

They have been used, for example in Deep Space 1 spacecraft" .. or recently (5-6 years ago) in Dawn spacecraft (with an impressive deltaV of 10Km/sec..

Basically they are similar to any other rocket, you shoot ions but more loosely is also used for all electric propulsion systems that accelerate plasma (since plasma consists of ions)

How they accelerate the ions may be interesting some use electrostatic force some electromagnetic force.

Nothing fancy..Russians used them in 100's of rockets in 90's (mainly for stabilization).. and the technology has been used by US too..

(ION's have very high velocity, and engines are highly efficient (they are not heat engines.. but electric machines) for very small thrusts. lasting a long time... (Most provide a thrust of the order of , say, weight of 1 sheet of paper ... or about 0.001 g !)

HTH

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Harish » 23 Aug 2014 14:48

Neshant wrote:I donated $2 to towards the construction of a Tesla tower in Russia. But to be frank, I barely understand the science behind it.

I think its something about charging the Tesla coil with a specific harmonic to induce energy transmission. But I had smoke coming out of my ears trying to understand the theories of the Russian physicists behind this project.

By the way, Nicola Tesla was a follower of Swami Vivekanada - the first swami to hit the shores of the US in the early 1900s. He was fascinated with mysticism.

That aside, Tesla was clearly well ahead of his time having invented just about every aspect of electronics that we take for granted today. His Wardencliff Tower project which banker JP Morgan initially financed by then stopped could not be completed in his lifetime. Its supposedly meant to transfer power to any point on Earth through the air (like radio waves).

This project is aimed to re-create Tesla's experiment using modern day materials & tools.

What do you top guns in physics think? Is it a sound idea or did I waste $2.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/let- ... /x/8103788


Tesla did pioneering work in a few fields, but his ideas for broadcast power were nutty, to put it mildly. His grandiose projects to beam power through the air never worked and he did not bother to keep detailed notes, either, so no one could review his work. It is hard to believe he invented a mechanism to beam power through the air, but the science never worked for anyone ever again. Besides, he rejected Einstein's work for years - if you are a scientist and you are up against Einstein, there's a LOT wrong with you.

Stories of Tesla's genius being sidelined by corporate greed is one of those "weird" internet legends. I think you fell for the Russian version of the (in)famous Nigerian inheritance scam. :((

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Harish » 23 Aug 2014 14:56

johneeG wrote:Haven't seen the videos, but posting it because it sounds interesting. Since, the link says that one can build it and test it oneself, I am posting it.

Generally, whenever the possibility of such a car is talked about, people talk of thermodynamics laws. But, since this particular article claims that each person can build it for himself and since he does not seem to be selling anything, it is interesting. So, is it possible to build a vehicle that runs on water(if not completely, than atleast uses water to supplement the fuel)?


When the paki abduls came up with this there was much laughter and ridicule. Now that a gora says the same thing we are all ears. Not fair, I tell ya.

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby johneeG » 23 Aug 2014 15:27

Harish wrote:
Neshant wrote:I donated $2 to towards the construction of a Tesla tower in Russia. But to be frank, I barely understand the science behind it.

I think its something about charging the Tesla coil with a specific harmonic to induce energy transmission. But I had smoke coming out of my ears trying to understand the theories of the Russian physicists behind this project.

By the way, Nicola Tesla was a follower of Swami Vivekanada - the first swami to hit the shores of the US in the early 1900s. He was fascinated with mysticism.

That aside, Tesla was clearly well ahead of his time having invented just about every aspect of electronics that we take for granted today. His Wardencliff Tower project which banker JP Morgan initially financed by then stopped could not be completed in his lifetime. Its supposedly meant to transfer power to any point on Earth through the air (like radio waves).

This project is aimed to re-create Tesla's experiment using modern day materials & tools.

What do you top guns in physics think? Is it a sound idea or did I waste $2.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/let- ... /x/8103788


Tesla did pioneering work in a few fields, but his ideas for broadcast power were nutty, to put it mildly. His grandiose projects to beam power through the air never worked and he did not bother to keep detailed notes, either, so no one could review his work. It is hard to believe he invented a mechanism to beam power through the air, but the science never worked for anyone ever again. Besides, he rejected Einstein's work for years - if you are a scientist and you are up against Einstein, there's a LOT wrong with you.

Stories of Tesla's genius being sidelined by corporate greed is one of those "weird" internet legends. I think you fell for the Russian version of the (in)famous Nigerian inheritance scam. :((


Tesla seems like a real deal while einstein sounds like fake. Tesla seems to have some inventions which are used in day to day life. Einstein science seems to be basis for more of the same fakeness.

Einstein has been turned into an icon of geniusness.... just goes to show the power of propaganda.

Science like any other sphere of human endeavor will have its share of fakes and frauds.

____
About water-fuelled car:
Infact, even when the baki said this, I did not ridicule. What the baki did was, he simply copied idea from net and claim that it works. I thought," if even a baki can make this idea work, then surely big corporations could have made this idea work long long ago. Then why didn't they do it?" Then, l realized the answer: oil. The whole world wconomy is pegged to oil. Many wars have been fought for oil. Regimes have been changed for oil. Oil(and electricity) is the lifeline of the modern civilization. If cheap and easy fuel is available to everyone, then it will make monopoly on oil useless.

The idea of water being used as fuel seems to be possible. There seem to be toy cars which use water was fuel. So, the concept is feasible.

There is also gobar gas. Even this could be used at large scale.

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Neshant » 24 Aug 2014 12:12

Harish wrote:Tesla did pioneering work in a few fields, but his ideas for broadcast power were nutty, to put it mildly. His grandiose projects to beam power through the air never worked


Its already known (for over a hundred years) that it is possible to transmit power wirelessly due to Tesla's experiments. Light bulbs for instance can be made to glow within a short range of a tesla coil. Numerous such clips on YouTube with small Tesla "towers". You can even build one yourself with fairly simple materials, just don't give yourself a shock as it involves high voltages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZwwXxpv19Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGk3O-zg2E8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-vz82dx6gQ

The question is not if wireless power transmission works - that has already been established over a century ago. The question is if large amounts of energy can be transmitted a long distance (like a radio wave) using a large tower. That's what the Wardenclyff Tower Tesla was building was meant to do.

JP Morgan had funded the project initially with the understanding that Tesla would build him a radio broadcasting & receiving station to communicate with ships out in the Atlantic. But Tesla used the money in pursuit of his dream of building a wireless energy transmitting station. It was half complete when JP Morgan found out about it and he cut off the funding promptly.

As for Einstein, he was once asked in an interview how it felt to be the most intelligent man in the world. His response was "I don't know, you'll have to ask Tesla".

Now are there any real physicists here who have an opinion on this experiment. The Russian guys have some papers up on their website translated into English. But quite frankly I can't quite understand it in any depth.

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Amber G. » 26 Aug 2014 19:07

^^^Neshant FWIW, Few comments.. ... (I am sure you have done your own reading)

First - The Einstein quote about Tesla is one of a fairly well-known and in all probablity a bogus quote. (One of the "well-known" Einstein quote is "Don't believe in all of my quotes on Internet" :) ).. But this is besides the point. Tesla, by all accounts, was a smart person.

Also, yes power (even "large" amount) can be transmitted without wires (as you say like "radio waves"). The oridnary radio/TV towers do that (relatively smaller amount of power). Sun does it. ( the radiation from Sun is like radio waves (EM waves),, and does have almost a GIGA WATT per square mile). (BTW radar-jamming devices in fighter planes have enough power to destroy (literally smoke-up) ordinary police radar speed trap units)

Added later: There are wireless charging system availables for iphone.. inductive charging (not too different from Tesla's idea) is used for years (think of electric tooth-brushes).. Today's news has a story about Apple filing 2 new patents for wireless power. And starting with Tesla there are literally 100's of patents issued for wireless power. ( Qualcomm for example received more than 40 patents, and startups like WiTricity and Powermat each has many)

So I will not say that there is any fundamental problem in the idea of trying those ideas. Obviously you thought it worthwhile to invest $2.


The idea is NOT new. There are many (very serious) designs but primary concern is how to protect things which are in the way.. (There have been talks of energy being transmitted from satalites via high power micro-waves for example, but how to provide safe-guards if a plane passes through it ?)

Having said that, the Russian scientists paper, in my humble opinion, has hallmarks of a scam (IMO). Their website (and papers) are at points, somewhat silly beyond any reasonableness (IMO),, They talk about solar panels covering literally hundreds of thousands of square miles.. (current technolgy will put the cost of solar panels alone in TRILLIONS of dollors - a fact which they even not mention..!) ... But then, as they say in science, if they succeed, more power to them.

PS - BTW I have played with Tesla coils, really fun stuff. As to bulb lightinging up without wires.. just put one in an ordinary microwave - it wiil light up. .. (Nothing extraordinary there )...

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Amber G. » 27 Aug 2014 03:36

Also, Neshant, this may be of interest to you...
in 1894 Jagdish Chandra Bose rang a bell at a distance using electromagnetic waves and also ignited gunpowder, showing that power can be transmitted without using wires.
(According to https://www.cv.nrao.edu/~demerson/bose/bose.html
(Appersantly around the same time - or only a few years later then Tesla)

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Yayavar » 27 Aug 2014 08:40

^^we had that in our Hindi chapter on Basu in 7th or 8th class (CBSE). Was it in 1990's that IEEE recognized him has one of the pioneers and inventors of radio communications (prior to Marconi)?

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Neshant » 29 Aug 2014 08:53

Bose was among the first (but not the first) to demonstrate wireless transmission of a signal. His interest was in demonstrating the discovery rather than filing a patent on it. In 1891 he set off gunpowder which transmitted electromagnetic waves which rang a bell some distance away.

However in the same year 1891, Tesla filed a patent on RF describing in detail what anyone can recognize today as a radio transmitter and receiver.

Marconi's work was based on Tesla and though he plagerized it, he dishonestly denied Tesla credit for it. When Tesla was asked about Marconi being ahead of him in the race to patent radio telegraphy, he replied :

"Marconi is a good fellow. Let him continue. He is using seventeen of my patents."!


Tesla was confident that he was the rightful inventor of Radio but was stunned when the patent office awarded Marconi the patent and dismissed his patent. Marconi went on to win the Nobel Prize for his "discovery" of radio. He never acknowledged Tesla.

However the courts (after Tesla's death) ultimately overturned Marconi's patent. It was recognized that Tesla was the rightful owner of the patent on radio. Marconi's inventions in radio were heavily based on patents Tesla had already filed years earlier.

Similar story with X-Rays which Tesla discovered but for which credit is given to a German guy (Röntgen) instead.

Throughout his life Tesla was screwed left & right. From JP Morgan the banker to Westinghouse who bought up his invaluable patents on AC power generation & transmission but never gave him fair returns. Also Edison who used all kinds of dirty tactics to undermine him.

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Amber G. » 29 Aug 2014 19:31

^^^ Thanks. Many do not know the contributions of Tesla. (Agree, lot due to Edison's unfair methods)

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby jamwal » 29 Aug 2014 20:32

Nearly half of the posts made in this thread seem to be from The Onion.

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Amber G. » 30 Aug 2014 08:40

jamwal wrote:Nearly half of the posts made in this thread seem to be from The Onion.

Actually most of the stories in Onion are copied from this thread. :-o

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby johneeG » 30 Aug 2014 09:45

Water-Fuelled Toy Car:


Amazon Link to buy water-fuelled toy car

So, the concept is possible.

The point is that there is no need to be amazed at possibility of water-fuelled car(or other alternative fuel theories). One has to understand that monopoly on Oil is very important to many powerful entities and they have tried to continue to that system which is dependent on oil. This is similar to:

tsarkar wrote:What is hindering industry & ecosystem growth are -

1. DPSU's & Unions wanting captive business - GCF workers going on strike on news of private Indian players building arty, OFB Medak Union going on strike when it was announced VFJ will also manufacture BMP2 or MDL Unions going on strike on Pipavav being allowed to build sections for MDL.


Link

Same methodology. People want monopoly, so that they can exert control and influence even if the entire system is negatively influenced due to these policies. Simple.

Monopolies don't like competition. If there is alternative fuels competing with Oil(in terms of efficiency, cost, environment effect, geo-politics,...etc) what happens to all those who have monopoly on oil? Can it really be said that Oil will remain in top in all these factors for all countries?

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby deejay » 30 Aug 2014 12:21

^^^^ Again shooting my mouth off where it does not belong. But purely as an Observer, what would be the global impact on the Economy, Industry and associated activities if we assume that a cheap technology to use water as fuel and water based engines were to be available for uses in all segments today? Will this kind of technology have a global disruptive impact? Is this the primary reason why more funds are not being spent on developing such alternatives (More funds in comparison to the funds invested on in say Off Shore Deep Water oil drilling)?

Again, should not an imported energy dependent nation like ours invest heavily in this direction? I mean labs, research institutes, funding, pilot programmes and may be an entire GOI ministry for this?

P.S.: OT here but since the first point of origin for such technology would be Physicists and Scientists, hence also the first place for discussions.

SaiK
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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby SaiK » 30 Aug 2014 20:39

so we could potentially use sea water as is to generate power

Vayutuvan
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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Vayutuvan » 31 Aug 2014 00:16

johneeG wrote:Water-Fuelled Toy Car:
[youtubeva]...y4aZiRgrakw[/youtubeva]
...
So, the concept is possible.


jhoneeG: once the magnesium corrodes (I suppose it becomes MgCl_2) how do you propose to produce more magnesium? You cannot just dig it up since it doesn't occur in its elemental form.

Are you suggesting that part of the electricity generated from the fuel cell is used produce same amount of Mg to replace the amount which turned into MgCl_2? :twisted:

Here is relevant part from Wikipedia.

wiki aunty wrote:]Magnesium is the eighth-most-abundant element in the Earth's crust by mass and tied in seventh place with iron in terms of molarity.[2] It is found in large deposits of magnesite, dolomite, and other minerals, and in mineral waters, where magnesium ion is soluble.
Although magnesium is found in over 60 minerals, only dolomite, magnesite, brucite, carnallite, talc, and olivine are of commercial importance.
The Mg2+ cation is the second-most-abundant cation in seawater (occurring at about 12% of the mass of sodium there), which makes seawater and sea-salt an attractive commercial source of Mg. To extract the magnesium, calcium hydroxide is added to seawater to form magnesium hydroxide precipitate.
MgCl_2 + Ca(OH)_2 → Mg(OH)_2 + CaCl_2

Magnesium hydroxide (brucite) is insoluble in water, so it can be filtered out and reacted with hydrochloric acid to obtain concentrated magnesium chloride.

Mg(OH)_2 + 2 HCl → MgCl_2 + 2 (H_2O)

From magnesium chloride, electrolysis produces magnesium.


One can produce H directly from solid Mg according to this reaction.

Mg (s) + 2 H_2O (l) → Mg(OH)_2 (s) + H_2 (g)

and used in Hydrogen fuel cells which may have better properties. A car (a toy prototype perhaps) that runs on both salt water and ordinary water can be designed, obviously. The question still stands - where are you going to get your Mg from?

By the way somebody showed they can get gold out of ocean water. Trick question: Why not get a lots of plants started along Indian coast and start making tons (or even megatons) of gold and become the wealthiest nation on earth?

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby SaiK » 31 Aug 2014 01:12

well if not gold, it can prevent tsunamis.. having those mangroves is good.

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Vayutuvan » 31 Aug 2014 01:27

SaiK wrote:so we could potentially use sea water as is to generate power

SaiK: Let me quote Heinlin

TANSTAAFL

One has to pay the price for everything. One has to fill the overhead tanki (bucket by bucket if necessary) if one wants to take nice long cool shower on an Indian summer day. One cannot take a nice cool shower just because one sees "enDa mAvi" (mirage) on the terrace - onlee.

yagnya (hard work of observing, theorizing, practice, measurement iteratively till it is a repeatable from description alone) is a must.

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Vayutuvan » 31 Aug 2014 01:28

SaiK wrote:well if not gold, it can prevent tsunamis.. having those mangroves is good.

I meant "plants" as in industrial not as in trees :)

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Re: Physics Thread.

Postby Neshant » 31 Aug 2014 02:32

In the early 20th century, some German scientist showed that it was possible to extract trace amounts of gold out of a few tons of sea water. However the energy required to extract the gold is far in excess of what the gold is worth.

Its always a question of how much energy (or money) is spent in extraction vs how much energy (or money) is produced.

Microbes exist that have evolved to consume oil. They are used to clean up oil spills. How about microbes to "clean up" (accumulate) gold from water. The microbes can then be gathered and burnt to extract their gold content.


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