The Indian National ID Card Project

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vera_k
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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby vera_k » 11 Dec 2011 22:13

^^
That would limit the use of such an ID, and necessitate another ID that can be trusted to separate the two. Which is where things are with the home ministry wanting to start another ID project.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Pranav » 11 Dec 2011 22:49

vera_k wrote:^^
That would limit the use of such an ID, and necessitate another ID that can be trusted to separate the two. Which is where things are with the home ministry wanting to start another ID project.


You could just add a field in the database which says whether the holder is a citizen or not.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby vera_k » 11 Dec 2011 23:02

Sure thing. UID is not doing that though. And there would have to be a different type of ID (if card based) or response (if computerized process) to go with that.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Pranav » 11 Dec 2011 23:19

vera_k wrote:Sure thing. UID is not doing that though. And there would have to be a different type of ID (if card based) or response (if computerized process) to go with that.


The citizenship field can also be added later, if there is political will (and that is a big if).

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby vera_k » 11 Dec 2011 23:44

It is essentially the same thing as creating another ID, as there will unavoidably be another manual process. Plus matters will be worse, since a lot of ID proofs that are acceptable today won't be acceptable for such disambiguation later.

For example, the RBI has notified that the UID can be an acceptable document for opening a bank account. So non-citizens can now open a bank account. Then bank accounts cannot be used as valid proof of ID for any process that tries to differentiate between the two later on.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Cosmo_R » 12 Dec 2011 05:02

I understand and am all for the UID project. However, I received an email from someone:

"NN, when not defending his UID card project is seen drinking away The Leela's wine cellar empty. (Rs 48,000 a bottle, along with Aveek Sarkar. Source: Vir Sanghvi) And this in a country where the Planning Commission sets Rs 32 a day (urban) and Rs 26 a day (rural) as the poverty cut-off limit. Nilekani 's UID is also part of the PC

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Abhijeet » 13 Dec 2011 00:20

I am extremely wary of putting unchangeable biometric data into a database maintained by the Indian government. Given the GOI's consistent record of incompetence at all levels, it's a virtual certainty that the data will be compromised sooner rather than later. And because the data is biometric, once tainted it will be impossible to generate a new set of data for you.

If someone hacks into a database and steals your password, you or the system administrators can create a new one. If someone steals your biometric information, how will you generate a new set?

I read a generally positive article in Wired about the project, and one of the things they mentioned is that the database will be something like 128 times larger than the largest DHS database. Doesn't it make anyone else wary that the GOI is taking on a project two orders of magnitude larger than the DHS has, and we expect them to get it right the first time?

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby shyamd » 15 Dec 2011 20:23

Guys, is it worth getting?

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby rishabhsood » 16 Dec 2011 23:04

There is a new project under the PMO undertaken by Sam Pitroda less talked about. The Public Information Infrastructure is next on list after UID.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... nt-schemes

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby shaardula » 17 Dec 2011 06:50

as of this week, the banks were NOT accepting Adhar as a proof of identity/address. But you could use it at UTI/NHDL outlets to apply for a PAN.

So every I go people ask for PAN id. I also saw lot of youngsters apply for it. Why is it not sufficient?

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Vipul » 26 Dec 2011 04:25

Govt gives all clear to Rs 6,790 cr-ID card project.

The mother of all identity cards — the multi-purpose ID smart card — to be issued to every resident will come at a price tag of Rs 6,790 crore. The home ministry has firmed up its plan to issue the ID card to over 84 crore people above 18 years and has moved the government for financial clearance.

The ID card will be the public face of the National Population Register (NPR) that will become a confidential database once it is finalised.

The NPR and the ID cards will get its unique character from Aadhaar, the Nandan Nilekani-led unique identity number project.

But a 64 kb embedded chip in the card will ensure that residents will not have to depend on internet connectivity for a machine to read the details.

A home ministry official said they wanted to avoid the dependence on internet connectivity to access or verify the identity of the card-holder.

This is a disadvantage that Aadhaar numbers may have to face, at least in the short run due to patchy mobile and internet connectivity in rural and remote areas.

Instead, a hand-held chip reader — the size of a credit card swipe reader — that costs about Rs 7,000, would be able to print the data on its small screen. This would include the photograph, pictures of two fingerprints and other demographic details such as date of birth, place of birth and the name of the resident’s father or mother. The card will have a validity of 10 years.

Home Ministry officials said they were projecting a cost of R80 per card including delivery on the basis of their experience in coastal areas.

“We have been able to reduce the postage charges by one-fourth, primarily because we will post the cards to families rather than individuals”.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby chaanakya » 26 Dec 2011 15:42

chaanakya wrote:Well went to Adhaar Card Issue Centre.


Well two months down, no UID (Aadhaar No) in sight. I was told that they did not anticipate huge response and their data crunching facility is limited, besides other issues. MHA is very much opposing the idea. Though orders have been issues to incorporate columns for Aadhaar No in many beneficiaries oriented scheme's application forms. MGNREGA is also facing issues. Quality of finger prints in rural areas seem to be poor.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby kmkraoind » 20 Jan 2012 14:29

Chidambaram takes UID turf war to Manmohan Singh

PM stands firm by Nilekani, UID set to cover all

The move means two government agencies — UIDAI and home ministry’s census commissioner — will now independently record the biometric details of residents, leading to duplication of effort and resources.

Ahluwalia said it wasn’t possible to avoid duplication as the home ministry refused to amend its rulebook to accommodate the UIDAI.

“We don’t refuse to develop a road alongside a railway line on grounds of duplication. It is impossible in the government to completely avoid duplication,” he said.
The commission said while the home ministry’s initiative was security-related, the UIDAI was a development initiative.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Singha » 20 Jan 2012 14:45

imo UID is dead in water. just like gcc , C and gdb though old never got kicked out by c++ or VC. PAN is the only thing most agencies accept other than passport and driving license.

the clowns in the GOI should first attempt some smaller task like reforming the pension admin (PF offices), their outdated book keeping norms , their outdated system of sending statements to companies once a year(!if you are lucky!), outdated way of transferring from account to account if you change jobs and corruption in seeking withdrawals. how would you like to have 20L in a PF account and no means to monitor if anyone is stealing from it? I hear they put siemens info systems (SISL) to work on automating and making user friendly the PF Admin but the project failed and was abandoned.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Sachin » 20 Jan 2012 17:16

shyamd wrote:Guys, is it worth getting?

I have parked this for a while. Especially considering all the confusions reported in the media. I have a PAN Card and an Indian passport. Guess that is the best ID verification data I have with me. It has never failed me.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Pranay » 22 Jan 2012 19:46

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 583988.cms

BJP on Saturday said inclusion of all Indian residents in the Unique Identification (UID) number scheme would present a threat to the nation's security by giving illegal migrants rights of citizens.

"In many parts of India, infiltrators from Bangladesh are there, there are people from Pakistan living in parts, they are not citizens of India, but terror, trouble and destabilization is fomented by them," party spokesperson Ravi Shankar Prasad said.

"The UID would include all residents, not citizens. So the overlapping between the national population register and UID, who will answer it?" he asked. The BJP leader said the issue of national security cannot be different from development.

"Can the issue of development be diverse from national security? In many parts, specially in the north-east, illegal immigrants have manipulated documents, like ration cards, voter I-cards, and got several rights. If we give them UID, they will say they are citizens of India," he claimed.

Nearly 12 crore UID numbers have been issued so far. "Confusion, chaos, differences and turf war has become the defining and disturbing feature of nearly all decisions of the UPA government. Ministers don't agree, ministries differ and there is serious disconnect between the Congress and the allies on many policy initiatives," said Prasad, adding that the latest in this saga of uncertainty is the battle between the ministry of home and the Planning Commission on the preparation of UID.


So, by this idiotic logic, every ID card issued in India (Ration Card, Passport, Drivers License, etc), that can be obtained fraudulently, should be cancelled. You never know.... :roll:

So, if there are indeed illegal aliens living in India, does one fine-tune the process of obtaining one or deny the benefits to the vast majority of legitimate citizens??

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Pranay » 22 Jan 2012 20:03


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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby member_21708 » 23 Jan 2012 21:46

Pranay wrote:So, by this idiotic logic, every ID card issued in India (Ration Card, Passport, Drivers License, etc), that can be obtained fraudulently, should be cancelled. You never know.... :roll:

So, if there are indeed illegal aliens living in India, does one fine-tune the process of obtaining one or deny the benefits to the vast majority of legitimate citizens??


Pranay, UAID bill was never passed by Lok Sabha, so collection of biometric data of Indian citizens by foreign and indian private enterprises without legal sanction is illegal and these entities and people running it are liable to be prosecuted. All those who have got Aadhar cards have been duped into giving their fingerprints and iris scans without legal safeguards that this data wouldn't be sold to others or misused by the collection agency.

UID is just one tool in the toolbox of the technocrats to impose their technocratic dictatorship by treating all citizens as criminals and keeping them under 24/7/365 watch over them, so they cant rebel.

Anyone interested in being free from oppression of the technocrats should reject the Aadhaar card and not give in to the demands of the technocrats.

Parliamentary panel rejects UID Bill
The Standing Committee on Finance has rejected the UID Bill, which was aimed to enforce bio-metrics enabled Aadhaar identification system on all residents of India

Earlier last month, Home Minister P Chidambaram opinioned that the biometric census done by the Aadhaar project does not pass security criteria. The Home Ministry even claimed that UID number can be generated without any verification of documents, mandatory for it.

Earlier Bengaluru-based Col (Retd.) Mathew Thomas of Citizens' Action Forum and VK Somasekhar, founder-trustee of Grahak Shakti had filed a potential class action suit against the Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI).

According to the petition, there was urgency in filing the suit as the defendants (UIDAI, Union Govt, and Deputy Chairman, Planning Commission) intended to complete major part of the Aadhaar enrolment before the matter was decided by the Standing Committee on Finance and presented before the Lok Sabha so as to compel the Parliament to support the project with retrospective effect as money has already been spent.

"Every day the UID project continues, several crore of rupees of taxpayers' money would be lost. Apart from this, the continued gathering of people's data would be an unacceptable security risk both to the people and the nation its self. It is respectfully submitted that while millions are dying of hunger, starvation and deprivation be it children, women, men or aged persons, spending such huge amounts of money to benefit and make it possible for many to pocket the money at the expense of the citizen in the name of Aadhaar even without any legislative sanction is illegal. Plaintiffs are affected by the conduct of the defendants and so are many millions of Indians," said Col (Retd.) Thomas and Mr Somasekhar in the petition.

http://www.moneylife.in/article/parliam ... 22083.html

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby member_21708 » 24 Jan 2012 21:41

Headlines Today exposes UID fraud in Delhi
The unique identification (UID) number was supposed to be the most secure identity card for Indian citizens. However, a Headlines Today special investigation has revealed that security is being compromised in issuing the UID cards.

The authorities concerned have not been verifying the identity and residence proofs of the UID card seekers. Ironically, Delhi's MPs and MLAs have been handing out the necessary documents for the UID blindly.

Headlines Today special investigation team found that the identity proofs were being handed out without any verification at West Delhi MP Mahabal Mishra's residence.

Headlines Today's undercover reporter was asked for his address only verbally and it was put on Mishra's printed letterhead. No one bothered to check if the address was genuine.

The letter was stamped and Mishra's signature forged by the person issuing it. The letter was enough for Headlines Today's undercover reporter to get his UID made.

It is standard procedure that if someone does not have a valid residence or identity proof, he or she can get it from the local registrar. However, local MPs and MLAs have been compromising national security by issuing identity proofs without any checks to woo the voters.

Scene at MLA Jaikishan's residence
Headlines Today visited the residence of MLA from Delhi's Sultanpur constitution -- Jaikishan -- and found a long queue of people waiting to get their forms signed. Shockingly, the printed forms on Jaikishan's letterheads were being sold for Rs.2 each by a vendor.

However, the twist was yet to come. The MLA was not even present at his residence when the forms were being signed. His staff were seen signing forms on behalf of the MLA and putting stamps without even asking the credentials of the applicant.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/head ... 70400.html

Fake doctor caught on camera authenticating application for UID number
While the MPs and MLAs from Delhi have been blindly issuing identity proofs to the seekers of unique identification (UID) number hoping to garner a few votes, there are also people in the national capital who have been selling such proofs for their personal gain, a Headlines Today special investigation has found.

During the investigation, Headlines Today came across a person impersonating as a doctor who had set a shop at a designated UID centre in Vikas Nagar near Uttam Nagar in west Delhi. For just Rs.50, the fake doctor was issuing identity and residence proofs on the letterhead of an MBBS doctor.

A Headlines Today reporter also got one such ID proof made, which the UID officials used to issue a card without any qualms. Unaware of being caught on a spy camera, the self-claimed doctor, Rajkumar, sought crucial details from the reporter and simply relied on the information provided by him.

EXCERPTS:

Rajkumar: I will make a letter for you which can be used to get a UID card. You will have to pay Rs.50 for it.

Reporter: I don't have any identity proof.

Rajkumar: Get a letter made.

Reporter: How much will it cost?

Rajkumar: Rs.50

Reporter: Okay.

Rajkumar: Do you have a photograph?

Reporter: Yes.

Rajkumar: Your name is Ram Kumar... And your father's name?

Only after furnishing these information, Headlines Today secured a letter from the fake doctor, which helped in procuring the UID number. There are many who have already managed to get UID numbers without being verified for the vital information provided by them.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/fake ... 70408.html

MHA, Planning Commission tussle over UID project
With almost 12 crore unique identification (UID) or Aadhar numbers already issued in the country, the ministry of home affairs (MHA) now fears that the way these cards have been made pose a huge security threat.

The Planning Commission and the MHA have been at loggerheads over the Unique Identification Authority of India's (UIDAI's) Aadhar project and the latter has been arguing that the National Population Register (NPR) was the answer to the discrepancies in the UID project.

On the other side, the Planning Commission feels the MHA's proposal of issuing chip-based smart card to all residents on the basis of records maintained by the NPR was not efficient enough. It has been insisting that the UID project was better than the NPR.

The plan panel feels that in the UID scheme all details are centrally stored and each citizen is identified with a unique identity number through any secured mobile telephone connection.

However, the MHA finds it a major concern for national security. In order to enrol, identities beyond its initial mandate of 20 crore to the right beneficiary raises disturbing questions, especially in face of massive infiltration from across the border to foment terror and destabilisation in the country.

Another fear of the MHA was that people without legal status in India might exploit it to gain access to development schemes and even attain a vote
.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/mha- ... 70414.html

Chidambaram refutes tussle over UIDAI's Aadhar project
Union Home Minister P. Chidambaram on Monday chose to downplay the reported turf war between his ministry and the Planning Commission over the Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI)'s Aadhar project.

His denial comes ahead of the Cabinet's appraisal of the biometric photo ID cards scheme, which is likely to be held later this week.

"There were media reports about conflict between the home ministry and the UIDAI, but they are not true," he said, at the launch of the distribution of 'Resident Identity Cards' (biometric smart cards), under the coastal national population register (NPR) at Pattipulam village, 40 km from Chennai.

"We are examining how best to include the Aadhar number into the smart card, making it even more feature-rich," he said.

"Aadhar is the unique identification number and NPR issues an identity card with all the relevant information. The NPR would get a special status if the Aadhar number is incorporated," Chidambaram added. While the issuance of the NPR cards began in the Andaman and Nicobar islands last week, the first in mainland India was given out to one Meena of Pattipulam, on Monday.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/p.-c ... 70297.html

so the fabian solution is to merge Aadhar data with NPR thereby confering citizenship on non-citizens.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby wasu » 24 Jan 2012 23:02

GD, some real data on the aadhar system. looks pretty good.

http://uidai.gov.in/images/FrontPageUpd ... 1_2012.pdf

.....

Biometric Accuracy

As of December 31st 2011, the UIDAI has true and tested statistics computed from real operational large-scale UIDAI system with the resident enrollment database size of 8.4 crore (84 million). It is unnecessary and inaccurate to attempt to infer UIDAI system performance from other systems which are ten to thousand times smaller. Specifically,

• Failure to Enroll(FTE) Rate: Zero. As a policy, every unique resident, regardless of their biometrics can be enrolled and issued Aadhaar number.
• Biometric Failure to Enrol Rate: 0.14%. This implies that 99.86% of the population can be uniquely identified by the biometric system. The exceptions (0.14%) however are de-duplicated using demographic data and checked manually for fraud. The legitimate cases among these are issued Aadhaar number.
• False Positive Identification Rate (FPIR): 0.057%. In practical terms, it means that at a run rate of 10 lakh enrolments a day, only about 570 cases need to be manually reviewed daily to ensure that no resident is erroneously denied an Aadhaar number. The UIDAI currently has a manual adjudication team that reviews and resolves these cases. After manual adjudication, there is a negligible number of legitimate residents who are wrongly denied an Aadhaar number
• False Negative Identification Rate (FNIR): 0.035%. This implies that 99.965% of all duplicates submitted to the biometric de-duplication system are correctly caught by the system as duplicates. Given that currently approximately 0.5% of enrolments are duplicate submissions, only a few thousand duplicate Aadhaars would possibly be issued when the entire country of 120 crores is enrolled.

The analysis resulting from such a large data set (8.4 crore records) is empirically repeatable and statistically accurate. There is no longer a need to rely on small sample size tests or hearsay from other projects. The UIDAI is now capable of measuring the accuracy, performance and scalability of the actual production system, which is already among the largest in the world. The results lay to rest unfounded claims that the underlying technology is untested, unreliable and based on unproven assumptions.

Based on the analysis, it can be stated with confidence that UIDAI enrollment system has proven to be reliable, accurate and scalable to meet the nation’s need of providing unique Aadhaar numbers to the entire population. It is now safe to conclude that the system will be able to scale to handle the entire population.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Sudip » 25 Jan 2012 03:10

vikramd wrote:so the fabian solution is to merge Aadhar data with NPR thereby confering citizenship on non-citizens.

Why arrive at such conclusions? Combining UID and NPR is the most optimum way out, eliminating duplication and also reducing burden on citizens by having to register/produce data everything twice. Foreigners on student visas and work visas are given Social Security Numbers in US. Does that make them US citizens eligible to vote/get benefits etc? Proof of citizenship is passport. In case of UID/NPR they can just have a few columns in the database saying if the person is citizen/resident etc or not.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby ramana » 25 Jan 2012 04:21

The IS angle is a new one. MHA wants to take over the program and implement it as aprt of the Census. Hence NN is not in favor and is getting brush off. I first heard about this a few months ago from soemone in the implementation group and brushed it off. Now its turning true.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby member_21708 » 25 Jan 2012 10:34

Sudip wrote:
vikramd wrote:so the fabian solution is to merge Aadhar data with NPR thereby confering citizenship on non-citizens.

Why arrive at such conclusions? Combining UID and NPR is the most optimum way out, eliminating duplication and also reducing burden on citizens by having to register/produce data everything twice.


Did you know UID has no legal basis? Data collected for Aadhar card has no legal standing. By taking such spurious data and putting it into NPR leads to a situation were even the NPR data becomes tainted by spurious data.

There wouldnt be any burden on the citizens in the first place if this Aadhar scheme had not been invented by technocrats like nandan and manmohan who want to have all citizens info in a private database accessible to them but paid for by the citizens.

Headlines today sting showed touts sellling cards for 50 rupees. why has legal action not been taken against these touts and Aadhar scheme managers for allowing such fake cards to be issued?


Sudip wrote:Foreigners on student visas and work visas are given Social Security Numbers in US. Does that make them US citizens eligible to vote/get benefits etc? Proof of citizenship is passport.


You are pointing to another fabian scheme and saying if its OK for america it should be OK for us. You never checked to see if its really working there or not. Let me show you its not working.

Illegal Immigrants Are Voting in American Elections
In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens. While that may not seem like many, just 3 percent of registered voters would have been more than enough to provide the winning presidential vote margin in Florida in 2000. Indeed, the Census Bureau estimates that there are over a million illegal aliens in Florida, and the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) has prosecuted more non-citizen voting cases in Florida than in any other state.

The evidence is indisputable that aliens, both legal and illegal, are registering and voting in federal, state, and local elections. Following a mayor's race in Compton, California, for example, aliens testi­fied under oath in court that they voted in the election. In that case, a candidate who was elected to the city council was permanently disqualified from holding public office in California for soliciting non-citizens to register and vote. The fact that non-citizens registered and voted in the election would never have been discovered except for the fact that it was a very close election and the in­cumbent mayor, who lost by less than 300 votes, contested it.

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691


In India, Election commission recognizes Aadhar card as proof of citizenship by allowing people to vote using it as ID proof, that allows any illegal immigrant to vote and elect our political leaders.
Aadhar card can be id proof for Maha local bodies polls
http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/wire-n ... 22408.html


Sudip wrote:In case of UID/NPR they can just have a few columns in the database saying if the person is citizen/resident etc or not.

Which in turn allows the dubious Aadhar database to get a legal standing. There is no reason to put national security at risk by allowing a private body like Aadhar to confer citizenship rights on illegal immigrants. fabian congress would love to do so since it can have a captive votebank in the form of millions of illegal migrants from bangladesh who have settled in large parts of Assam, Bengal, Bihar and UP. When risks outweigh benefits its better to ditch such schemes.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Pranay » 25 Jan 2012 18:01

http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=748931

Amid differences between Home Ministry and Planning Commission over continuation of UID project, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh today held discussions with senior Cabinet colleagues to resolve the issues.

Singh will call a Cabinet meeting on Friday to take final call on extension of the UIDAI project, under which national identity cards are issued to entire population.

"I think we have come to an agreement on how both the projects can proceed together without any difficulty ... The Cabinet Committee (on UIDAI) was rescheduled and will happen on Friday. We are quite hopeful that we will have a resolution of these issues in that meeting," Planning Commission Deputy Chairman Montek Singh Ahluwalia said here after the meeting.

Besides Ahluwalia, today's meeting was attended by Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee, Home Minister P Chidambaram, UIDAI chairman Nandan Nilekani and National Security Advisor (NSA) Shivshankar Menon.

"We are moving towards very satisfactory conclusion. There were different views ... We reviewed different issues", Ahluwalia said, adding the Home Ministry's National Population Register (NPR) project for constructing digital database of residents could continue along with UIDAI.

"I think that there is agreement that both the projects can move ahead and ways can be found that will avoid avoidable duplication. That was the key issue. I will sent the supplementary note (to Cabinet)", he added.

At the centre of the controversy is the collection of bio-metric data of all residents.


While the Home Ministry has maintained that the Registrar General of India (RGI) under it has been mandated to collect the data through the NPR, the Nandan Nilekani-led UIDAI has also been authorised to gather the information.

Home Minister P Chidambaram has sought clarity on the status on who will capture bio-metric data -- Registrar General India or UIDAI. The Home Ministry feels that the data collected by UIDAI was not secure as it is not verified by a government servant.

The data collection by UIDAI has been done by hired organisations which is a cause of concern for the Home Minister.

Since the UIDAI has already enrolled 170 million residents, the government will have to take a decision on the future of the body.

UIDAI is likely to complete the mandate of enrolling 200 million residents even before the deadline of March 31 this year.

Ahluwalia has thrown his full weight behind the UIDAI saying the project should continue. On concerns over duplication of work and extra burden on exchequer, he had stated that the project is well worth it.

The Planning Commission wants more resources for the authority for continuation of its work.

According to the Home Ministry proposal, chip-based smart cards will be issued to all residents on the basis of the record maintained by the NPR-- a digital database under construction.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Vipul » 25 Jan 2012 21:54

Meet on UIDAI, home ministry turf war to resume Friday.

On Friday, the Unique Identification Authority of India became the world's largest biometric database with close to 120 million records of Indian residents, beating similar databases maintained elsewhere in the world.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Pranay » 26 Jan 2012 04:57

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/nanda ... topstories

http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=749024


Planning Commission and Home Ministry appeared to have reached a compromise on the UIDAI project over which the two were at loggerheads over the security angle.

The understanding over the issue of providing unique identity numbers to residents seems to have been reached at a meeting of senior Cabinet colleagues called by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh here today.

"I think we have come to an agreement on how both the projects can proceed together without any difficulty ... The Cabinet Committee (on UIDAI) was rescheduled and will happen on Friday. We are quite hopeful that we will have a resolution of these issues in that meeting," Planning Commission Deputy Chairman Montek Singh Ahluwalia said here after the meeting.

Besides Ahluwalia, the meeting was attended by Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee, Home Minister P Chidambaram, UIDAI Chairman Nandan Nilekani and National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon.

"We are moving towards a very satisfactory conclusion. There were different views ... We reviewed different issues," Ahluwalia said, adding that the Home Ministry's National Population Register (NPR) project for constructing digital database of residents could continue along with UIDAI.

"I think that there is an agreement that both the projects can move ahead and ways can be found that will avoid avoidable duplication. That was the key issue. I will sent the supplementary note (to Cabinet)", he added.

At the centre of the controversy is the collection of bio-metric data of all residents.

While the Home Ministry has maintained that the Registrar General of India (RGI) under it has been mandated to collect the data through the NPR, the Nandan Nilekani-led UIDAI has also been authorised to gather the information.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Vipul » 27 Jan 2012 20:20

Cabinet extends mandate of UIDAI to issue 40 crore more cards.

The Cabinet Committee on UIDAI on Friday extended the mandate of UIDAI to issue 40 crore more UID cards.
The cabinet approved the additional spending of Rs5,000 crore for issuing UID cards.

The UID will continue enrolling people in 16 states and Union Territories,while National Population Register will do the job in other states.UIDAI and National Population Register to complete enrolment by June, 2013.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Pranay » 27 Jan 2012 20:46

http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=749263

The ongoing conflict between the Plan panel and the Home Ministry over issuance of chip-based smart cards to all residents was put to rest today as the government cleared the UIDAI's proposal to enroll an extra 40 crore people in 16 states, while the biometrics in other states will be collected under the NPR project.

While the government has cleared additional Rs 5,791.74 crore for the UIDAI, the Nandan Nilekani-led UIDAI has assured that the security concerns raised by the Home Ministry would be addressed.

The entire process by the two agencies will be completed by June next year.

"We will review the security concerns in the next six to eight weeks and begin the process of collection of data from April," Nilekani told reporters here after his proposal was cleared by the Cabinet Committee on Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI).

Briefing reporters, Home Minister P Chidambaram said there was no difference with the Planning Commission over the issuance of the cards.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Vipul » 08 Feb 2012 01:24

Aadhaar-based subsidy outgo schedule likely.

Finance minister Pranab Mukherjee is set to outline a schedule for Aadhaar-based entitlements and cash disbursal of subsidies in the coming budget.

The Unique Identifiaction Authority of India (UIDAI) is expediting creation of platforms for implementing the model, likely to include coverage of the Public Distribution System and other areas of subsidy, and also government’s social sector schemes.

UIDAI chairman Nandan Nilekani on Tuesday said the government was considering the report of a panel he’d headed which had suggested a nationwide, Aadhar-based network for delivery of PDS.

He added at a workshop on ‘Aadhaar enabled service delivery’ that UIDAI was trying to create strong platforms in the areas of financial inclusion in association with banks; cash disbursal of subsidy for petroleum products, including cooking gas, with oil marketing companies; online verification with the help of Aakash computer tablets in coordination with the department of education, and mobile know-your-customer enforcement rules with the help of the department of telecom.

“The next stage of application would be driven by working in very close partnership with the stakeholders,” said Nilekani. Adding the Aadhar-based wage delivery experience, currently on in Jharkhand as a pilot project, needed to be scaled up through the country.

He noted total entitlements and subsidies of the government of India was around Rs 3,00,000 crore in a year. “If we can really take all the entitlements and subsidies and payment on the Aadhar platform, to make sure they go directly to either their bank accounts or entitlement accounts, and then create a distribution channel so that people get their entitlements on time, wherever they are...this will be a huge change and this is not something which will take a lot of time,” he added.

UIDAI is packaging this on the basis of the Jharkhand experience. “Over the next 12 months, we have to roll this out in our partner states, so that benefits could reach the identified beneficiaries. The kind of architecture we are proposing will empower people to have choice and will also allow convergence of different programmes,” said Nilekani.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby RamaY » 08 Feb 2012 03:59

Vipul wrote:He noted total entitlements and subsidies of the government of India was around Rs 3,00,000 crore in a year.


I have been saying this for a long time.

Assuming 30 Crore people under BPL it works out to be Rs 50,000 per year for a family of 5. That is how INC comes to power.

This is why the "Butter Vs Guns" myth has to be maintained by the (sic) secular NGOs; else people ask to invest this money in more productive sectors leading to permanent poverty alleviation programs.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby member_21708 » 08 Feb 2012 20:38

Vipul wrote:Aadhaar-based subsidy outgo schedule likely.
Finance minister Pranab Mukherjee is set to outline a schedule for Aadhaar-based entitlements and cash disbursal of subsidies in the coming budget.

The Unique Identifiaction Authority of India (UIDAI) is expediting creation of platforms for implementing the model, likely to include coverage of the Public Distribution System and other areas of subsidy, and also government’s social sector schemes.


So public money will be distributed based on a private corporation run people's database which doesn't even check whether the said person is a citizen or not. Soon people not in the good books of this private corporation will find themselves ineligible for basic govt services and subsidies. Truly a corporate run technocratic dictatorship.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Vipul » 08 Feb 2012 23:00

UIDAI launches online ID authentication service.

The Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI) on Tuesday launched an online service for authentication of Aadhaar or unique identity numbers. This will help banks, telecom companies and government departments authenticate the identity of an Indian resident through any device connected to the internet.

The authentication service will be free of charge till December 2013, and will turn into a paid service in 2014.

It is likely to become a paid service in 2014 for agencies such as telcos, insurance and oil marketing companies who may want to use the 12-digit Aadhaar number for authentication of customers.

''The rollout of these services will help people see the tangible benefits of Aadhaar,'' said UIDAI chairman Nandan Nilekani on Tuesday. ''This will be a turning point.''

He hoped that over the next 12 months, as he woos a variety of service delivery agencies to start using the UIDAI's authentication system, the 20 crore people who have already been issued Aadhaar numbers would start to see some practical use of the process.

"It will ease and speed up the process to get scholarships, bank accounts, LPG connections, etc," Nilekani said.

''We will formulate a mechanism and fix a charge post December 2013. Till that time it is free," said R S Sharma, director general of UIDAI.

Meanwhile other departments of the government will be roped in through the national e-governance plan. "Aadhaar number can be used via secure authentication through mobile phones, for accessing various services such as scholarships, land records, birth and caste certificates," said Ajay Sawhney, chief executive officer of the e-governance division of the ministry of communications and information technology.

The delegates at Tuesday's workshop on Aadhaar enabled service delivery at which these announcements were made included government officials administering a vast range of benefit schemes, as well as representatives of banks, financial institutions and the telecom and insurance industries.

The UIDAI team is trying to convince them that whether it's the state-run public distribution system (PDS) eyeing a shift to cash transfers, an MGNREGA (employement guarantee scheme) payment or an application for a mobile SIM card, the procedures would be streamlined by using Aadhaar's global online authentication services.

Delegates were invited to register their interest in being declared 'authentic user agencies' and 'authentication service agencies'.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby Sudip » 09 Feb 2012 02:37

vikramd wrote:Did you know UID has no legal basis? Data collected for Aadhar card has no legal standing. By taking such spurious data and putting it into NPR leads to a situation were even the NPR data becomes tainted by spurious data.


1) UID has no legal standing cos it started out as an experimental pilot project to test its feasibility and now after some pretty encouraging results, it will be introduced as a bill in parliament and be made as a law, so no need to bother about its legality/illegality

2) 'Spurious data' How do you define that? What makes you think that the UID collection scheme is more spurious than NPR data collection scheme or for that matter how do you explain the illegal ration cards being doled out by election contestants to illegal slum dwellers? Corruption/spurious data collection is an institutional cancer and it should not be a reason to prevent roll out of more transparent and automated data collection and citizens' benefits distribution schemes. Development needs to go hand in hand. BTw, n the last cabinet meeting, UID has aggreed to raise its data collection standards to NPR data collection standards.

vikramd wrote:There wouldnt be any burden on the citizens in the first place if this Aadhar scheme had not been invented by technocrats like nandan and manmohan who want to have all citizens info in a private database accessible to them but paid for by the citizens.



Well its time, citizens start bearing some responsibility towards changing times and technologies rather than still relying on an angootha chaap. (As if the present angootha chaap system is addressing your concerns any better) These are the growing pangs of UID/NPR. Once established, registration for future generations will become a lot easier. For e.g. by using his NPR/UID number a person could pay tax, get a passport, get pension, vote etc etc, A mother needs to go through a painful delivery for a wonderful child to be born. Who told you its a private database btw? Data collection scheme is private i know, but how did you conclude the data is sitting in some private companies server? AFAIK, data is stored in a government database and is well secured. Why are you against technocrats running the system? Nitish Kumar is a technocrat too ;) 60 years of government being run by babus hasnt done much, so lets give a chance to the technocrats now

vikramd wrote:Headlines today sting showed touts sellling cards for 50 rupees. why has legal action not been taken against these touts and Aadhar scheme managers for allowing such fake cards to be issued?


Same rhetoric. UID/NPR is more about the number than the card. Plus NPR card has multiple security schemes like hologram, data chip etc. Did you ever think what happens when a fake card/number is presented to the authorities? The number is compared with the database and a fake number would generate no results, so thats all that that 50 Rs card can do. Dikhawe pe na jaao ;) People also claim to sell fake driver IDs and fake passports at RPOs. Best of luck trying to use them! Finally, just because touts sell fake stuff is no reason to stop roll out of UID/NPR. The roll out of NPR/UID does prevent these ghost identities as data collection is more thorough, so your statements are self contradictory.


You are pointing to another fabian scheme and saying if its OK for america it should be OK for us. You never checked to see if its really working there or not. Let me show you its not working.

Illegal Immigrants Are Voting in American Elections

Boss, I was just giving an example of a similar system and how they differentiate between citizens and non citizens. From reading your article, it seems not recognising an illegal voter was more of a fault of the election officer at the polling booth to not have thoroughly checked the voter's details against the system than a failure of the SSN number itself. The good thing is that UID/NPR is better than the SSN system and since multiple proofs of identity is collected before assigning him the number, it will make it harder to do a fake impersonification in elections etc. You are constantly harping on the same fact that UID/NPR has risk of fake documents being doled out. UID/NPR has a greater target of enabling better PDS, transparency and also as an enabler of reduction in fake identities. How about this analogy:-- There is widespread circulation of fake rupee notes in india, Does that mean we stop usign paper currency? Every system has its pros and cons. If the new system works in 99.999% cases, compared to the present system that works for 60%. then we move to the new system. Citizen data collection and public distribution schemes in india need to evolve from the present 18th century technologies to tackle new challenges of illegal immigration, terrorism, rising population and I am full in favor of it. Fear of self-imagined ghosts should not be a reason to keep the system stuck in its present state of coma. As and when the UID/NPR system faces challenges, so will it evolve.


Which in turn allows the dubious Aadhar database to get a legal standing. There is no reason to put national security at risk by allowing a private body like Aadhar to confer citizenship rights on illegal immigrants. fabian congress would love to do so since it can have a captive votebank in the form of millions of illegal migrants from bangladesh who have settled in large parts of Assam, Bengal, Bihar and UP. When risks outweigh benefits its better to ditch such schemes.

Mostly same old ranting about private databases, illegal stuff so wont reply again.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby member_21708 » 09 Feb 2012 12:30

Sudip wrote:
vikramd wrote:Did you know UID has no legal basis? Data collected for Aadhar card has no legal standing. By taking such spurious data and putting it into NPR leads to a situation were even the NPR data becomes tainted by spurious data.


1) UID has no legal standing cos it started out as an experimental pilot project to test its feasibility and now after some pretty encouraging results, it will be introduced as a bill in parliament and be made as a law, so no need to bother about its legality/illegality


Without law being passed public funds cant be allocated to private corporations, do you understand this part? This whole UID scheme is illegal based on this single fact that no parliamentary sanction[will of the people] was taken.

If these unconstitutional acts are allowed to take place then there is no meaning of having elections to elect parliamentarians to make laws to govern us. Any 2-bit businessman can use his influence with PM to get public money to fund his pet pilot project.

Sudip wrote:2) 'Spurious data' How do you define that?

Spurious means Fake data. 100 rupees can get you a UID card, what more proof do you need UID is incapable as a system to be used to confirm identify of a person.

Sudip wrote:What makes you think that the UID collection scheme is more spurious than NPR data collection scheme

NPR is legal body backed by parliamentary law which entails punishment for using spurious data to create an identity, unilke UID which is being run without any legal oversight. No arrest have been made as of yet even after fake UID cards were issued for money.

Sudip wrote:or for that matter how do you explain the illegal ration cards being doled out by election contestants to illegal slum dwellers?

ration cards are not proof of citizenship, neither does NPR issue them.

What's your point anyway? Just because fake ration cards have been issued we should allow fake UID to be issued too?

Sudip wrote:Corruption/spurious data collection is an institutional cancer and it should not be a reason to prevent roll out of more transparent and automated data collection and citizens' benefits distribution schemes.

UID is not a transparent data collection system. Fake identities have been created and no action has been taken remove those. How do you explain this?

Sudip wrote:BTw, n the last cabinet meeting, UID has aggreed to raise its data collection standards to NPR data collection standards.

After millions of identities have been created now they are upgrading their standards to NPR, how convienient.

Are they gonna recheck all those million identities for false identities? I guess no, that makes UID data still unrelaible and worthless. Waste of public funds which benefits only one company, did anyone say corruption?

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby member_21708 » 09 Feb 2012 13:05

Marten wrote:Regardless of whether the data is spurious or not, the scammer will find it close to impossible to dupe the system with multiple identities and entitlements.

100 rupees can get a scammer a fake UID card which makes him eligible for all sorts of entitlements from free food to money for healthcare.

Now the scammer can use this fake UID as identity proof to open bank account and get his entitlement credited to his bank account as being done in jharkhand.

Soon there will be millions of fake UIDs and millions of rupees looted while needy people who deserve the benefit of govt schemes will be left empty handed.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby member_21708 » 09 Feb 2012 13:55

Marten wrote:I do not believe the Fake UID theory at all. FAR is miniscule for close to 100mn enrollments and it is near impossible. The card itself that is being hawked might be fake (i.e. not issued by UIDAI), but how will the chap bypass the biometric verification while claiming the benefits?

what is there not to believe? a private news channel during an sting operation managed to obtain them, a real UID card with spurious data
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/fake ... 70408.html

and even terrorists have managed to get fake UID card issued, shows total failure of UID scheme
MP cops recover fake UID card from SIMI activist
The Madhya Pradesh Police have seized from a SIMI activist an Aadhaar card with a 12-digit unique identity number bearing someone else’s name.

Zakir Hussain, 26, a resident of Khandwa, was arrested last week by the Anti-Terrorist Squad of MP Police after a shootout near Ratlam railway station that left a constable dead and two police personnel injured.

The SIMI activist had received injuries from shots fired by his accomplice who, too, was arrested. He was wanted in connection with the murder of another ATS constable in 2009.

During a search at Zakir’s rented place in Ratlam, the police recovered an Aadhaar card, a driving licence and fake marksheets. The UID card made in Nanded town of Maharashtra had Zakir’s photograph but bore a different name, Sadique Khan.

Apparently, Zakir had married a local woman under a false name and showed her home as his residential address. One Mohammed Iqbal had signed the nikahnama as a witness.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/mp-co ... ti/802406/

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby member_21708 » 09 Feb 2012 14:09

Sudip wrote:
vikramd wrote:There wouldnt be any burden on the citizens in the first place if this Aadhar scheme had not been invented by technocrats like nandan and manmohan who want to have all citizens info in a private database accessible to them but paid for by the citizens.


Well its time, citizens start bearing some responsibility towards changing times and technologies rather than still relying on an angootha chaap. (As if the present angootha chaap system is addressing your concerns any better) These are the growing pangs of UID/NPR.


Why should citizens pay one company [Infosys] millions to get better govt services? If govt wanted private corporations to get involved in bettering delivery system of govt schemes then there should have been a open tender , which would allow other private enterprises to compete and come with better technology solutions. UID reeks of corruption and nepotism.


Sudip wrote:Once established, registration for future generations will become a lot easier.

mungerilal ke haseen sapne... future generations will curse us if they find themselves governed by a system which uses dubious UID data as a means to deliver govt services or as proof of identity.


Sudip wrote:Who told you its a private database btw? Data collection scheme is private i know, but how did you conclude the data is sitting in some private companies server? AFAIK, data is stored in a government database and is well secured.


Biometric data collected by UID is open to 3 private MNC's Accenture, L-1 Identity Solutions and Morpho. Data can be copied, tampered with or sold to foreign espionage agencies by any one of these companies. This is a major national security risk which directly affects the lives of millions.

Sudip wrote:Why are you against technocrats running the system? Nitish Kumar is a technocrat too ;) 60 years of government being run by babus hasnt done much, so lets give a chance to the technocrats now


Nitish is a politician not a technocrat. People like manmohan and nandan are technocrats, blind believers in science as solution to all problems. they are slaves of foreign institutes like Aspen which dictate policy and these puppets implement their master's agenda to usher in a globalist state ruled by a scientific dictatorship.


Sudip wrote:
vikramd wrote:Headlines today sting showed touts sellling cards for 50 rupees. why has legal action not been taken against these touts and Aadhar scheme managers for allowing such fake cards to be issued?


Same rhetoric. UID/NPR is more about the number than the card. Plus NPR card has multiple security schemes like hologram, data chip etc..........


I am talking about UID/Adhaar and you touting the benefits of NPR. :roll:


Sudip wrote:
You are pointing to another fabian scheme and saying if its OK for america it should be OK for us. You never checked to see if its really working there or not. Let me show you its not working.

Illegal Immigrants Are Voting in American Elections

Boss, I was just giving an example of a similar system and how they differentiate between citizens and non citizens.


And your own example proved you wrong.


Sudip wrote:The good thing is that UID/NPR is better than the SSN system and since multiple proofs of identity is collected before assigning him the number, it will make it harder to do a fake impersonification in elections etc.


Let me repeat again. UID accepts spurious data without checking the facts , neither it has legal backing, dont compare it with NPR. You keep talking of NPR without responding to failings of UID.

Sudip wrote:Fear of self-imagined ghosts should not be a reason to keep the system stuck in its present state of coma. As and when the UID/NPR system faces challenges, so will it evolve.


Shows your lack of comprehension. If a fake identity can be created under UID what use is this multi-million rupee unique identity checking system? Its an absolute waste of public funds. Understood? Dont make this an personal affair by attacking others by your pseudo-psycho analysis.

Sudip wrote:
vikramd wrote:Which in turn allows the dubious Aadhar database to get a legal standing. There is no reason to put national security at risk by allowing a private body like Aadhar to confer citizenship rights on illegal immigrants. fabian congress would love to do so since it can have a captive votebank in the form of millions of illegal migrants from bangladesh who have settled in large parts of Assam, Bengal, Bihar and UP. When risks outweigh benefits its better to ditch such schemes.

Mostly same old ranting about private databases, illegal stuff so wont reply again.


So national security risk of illegals obtaining Indian citizenship is ranting to you? Just because you cant comprehend or dont want to acknowledge these serious shortcomings of UID wont make them disappear. Next time come with better arguments to defend your position of wasting public funds to enrich few individuals, one-liners wont do.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby member_21708 » 09 Feb 2012 14:46

marten, if there is no verification during issuing, millions of illegals currently living in India can get a UID card and be eligible to receive money under various govt schemes. why would they try for a second card when the first one already gives them benefits?

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby member_21708 » 09 Feb 2012 16:29

marten, If pilferage is the main concern, then why not use govt run NPR to prevent it, it has the added benefit of being proof of citizenship. Spending thousands of crores of rupees on UID with added security risks of data being spurious doesn't make sense.

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Re: The Indian National ID Card Project

Postby member_21708 » 09 Feb 2012 21:52

NPR could have been fast-tracked, slow pace of work is no reason to handover essentially govt work to private firms and share sensitive citizen data with them. UID data is basically junk due to the way its collected and if NPR is forced accept that data then it too will inherit UID flaws, sabotaging the whole citizen identify scheme. Reducing poverty and pilferage under the current multi-million scamster govt is essentially a pipe-dream.


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