Prasanth, I think you are not the types who will first read my complete post and then go about arguing or putting your view. Whatever questions you asked, I have answered all questions of yours, if you have patience enough to read my entire post before replying!
First of all, why you are comparing this with a barcode? You shud have compared it with SSN rather than barcode. Barcode is just an identification method. In case of UID the identification method is bio-metrics.
I actually read your arguments, but I think you got me wrong here. I am not against any ID system. I am against a scam by Super Nandan charging us almost 30bil$ for a number that has got no intelligence. For 30bil$, you are suppose to get more than that. Indians are always lowering standards to make themselves feel good. If you can't get Olympics, you get Commonwealth, it's good enuff, it is like that onlee! I am using barcode as an example because it is already the simplest form of identification just like what UID claim to be. Ok, let's compare SSN, the same goes for SSN, the numbers are not random, they have meaning. I have a feeling he is using random numbers because he has no time, no cohesion between government departments to consolidate information, GOI is not in full control of the country and lack of information on unorganized citizens. All ID cards on earth use biometrics for your information, none just issue a NUMBER for 30bil$. Your picture is already a biometric information, there are software to analyze and differentiate faces.
Ok, so now you want me to carry my PAN card, Voter Card, Ration Card, Drivers License and the UID card? What if all the cards have my UID no. on them?
Why should my car has so much of things in it, when I am gonna use it only for driving?
The purpose of UID is not for verifying indian citizenship, it is to ensure that the correct people are getting the services without exploitation. That is what makes it different from the rest of the projects in the world.
No, I want you to carry one card for all my friend. An ID card with a unique number and encrypted with a document, you keep as evidence for Citizenship and protected rights. All services will just check if your ID number is for that service and they will allow you if your ID is there. Remember MNIC? It was suppose to do just that. Now Nandan figured it would be almost impossible for him to do that, so he lowered down the standards and create a 'unique' Indian solution then broadcast to the whole world. You get it? And yet charging us 30BIL$. What is the diff with the rest of the world? We are not living in a coconut shell here, our system must be comparable or better than other systems. We cannot forever lower standards to suit babu palette....
You can't drive with a number plate my friend. You need a car. A package of identity delivery system.
Again, I know UID is not suppose to verify citizenship, I am asking why it is not verifying citizenship when I am paying 30bil$ of my taxpayer's $? So, a Bangla, a Paki can just claim to be Indian, given a UID and get our services? He can just nominate someone as his Amma and Appa, pay him some money, then he is Indian? If what you say is true, that it cannot verify citizenship, wouldn't it be possible for anybody staying in India to just get hold of freebies?
You are again wrong here! How did you come to the 30% equation? If UID is made compulsary requirement for Rationing card, it will have 99% penetration. Do you know of any person without a rationing card? In my previous post, I just gave an example of PAN card, to make u understand how the process will work. The UID is not limited to PAN card and it will also be made manditory for the Rationing card.
I am just giving an example. You sure there is 99% penetration, even in software circles, we don't dare to be 99% sure. I know whatever UID is suppose to do is verify these systems, but you are still stuck with multiple cards right? Why not just create an ID card for all? Why not make it compulsory? Is it because the government cannot exercise control and enforce laws? They are taking the short cut to just say it's voluntary? On the whole wide world, national ID is compulsory and made into a law, Nandan is taking short cuts to adapt it to babu standards, which means lower standard. If you cannot make a car, you create a plate number. It's the same, people will still tink it's a car because it's a car plate.
One example, Ahmad is verified as Ahmad with the relevant information, and the biometrics, but Ahmad has got a fake ration card. The clerk looks at Ahmad and say yes the info on the UID system matches Ahmad's ration card. So I give him food. I don't think clerks have access to a unified database for ration card for the whole India.
Why India is only country doing that? So you mean that we as a country can't come up with an innovative idea? Or we are still suffering with the thought that what west and china does is correct and no matter what we do is gonna be a disaster? Well time for you to wake up !!!
I know India is big and I didn't say we cannot come up with an innovative idea. It is just tht this is not innovative nor an idea, it's a SCAM. Why? You get charged 30bil$ for a random number created out of thin air! Please separate India from Nandan scam, just because Nandan is Indian, it doesn't mean I must support him. And just because I am against him, I am against Mother India?
You again got it wrong, please read the UID project documentation again. UID will not setup kiosks everywhere in the country. That would be taken care by the other Government offices, like Income Tax, Rationing Office, etc. etc. Do you know that in every district, there is a dedicated office for Income Tax etc. etc. Even banks would have that system in place. The UID guys are not gonna setup a new office everywhere. The existing government offices who are gonna enforce the UID system for their services, will have the infrastructure for UID application and/or authentication.
Okay, assuming you are correct taht every department will have it. You mean every village will have an authentication system? I am again repeating myself here, I am talking about your normal dhoti wearing uncle here. How the heck he knows you are 18 and stays in Jaipur and not a Paki? Wouldn't having a card + unique number serve this purpose? You can show a card that is counterfeit proof for ordinary Indians and when in government offices, you can verify it biometrically, instead of having a number alone. Get it? More for the money.........not 30bil$ for a random number.
Let me repeat here, PAN card is not the only system which is gonna use UID. Rationing system will have it as well. Do you know of any person working in un-organized sector without a Rationing card?
I answered in my post above.
You again got my points wrong. I am not talking about a person who lives in London. How about a non-indian national has come to india for limited time on a business trip? What would he do? Before questioning my logic, please try to understand what I am trying to say or is that you are just goona shove your thoughts on everyone and then call everyone else ignorant?
I am telling you in London, you don't need a British UID and a foreign national can still come for a limited business trip. I am telling you in Singapore, you don't need a Singaporean UID to do business. You understand? How did they manage to do it? You are not a global identification system where you tag everyone that comes into India, you are an Indian UID, you tag Indians. Comprehendo?
If you are gonna mock me with these petty terms, then this would be the last time I would reply to you. I never said, that the no. itself will provide cross-relationing system. Let me explain:
My Application for a new UID will have:
1.) My Name
2.) My DOB
3.) My Father's UID (If present)
4.) My Mother's UID (If present)
5.) Married Yes/No
6.) If Married, UID of Spouse:
If my father's UID is not available, then when the next time I put in an application for my father, that information will be populated again. If its a senior citizen, then he will be the Apex of his family tree of UIDs. Its not super-duper technology, simple Maths.
Well, I accept I am wrong here. But you told me it is the unique system in the world whereby only India has cross relationing technology, so I assumed it was something high tech. FYI, almost all ID system has got your father and Mother's ID and to relationize whether you are a son or relative, you just create a search function that can find these IDs in other IDs. So it's not so unique and ground breaking afterall?
This is waht you said >
But apart from all this, there is a unique feature of UID which makes it different from the other similar systems in the world. The feature of cross-relationing. The module involves a software algorithm which is capable of relationizing. For example, the UID of me will have a pointer towards the UID of my parents, my spouse, my children, my siblings. Its like a binomial tree !!! So as per the software module goes, UID is not just a unique entery, its part of a logical tree, with many connections and inter-connections. So the sytem dosent like at your UID, it actually looks at your entire family !!!
I have already told you that my estimates say that in the end, to setup this system its probably gonna cost more than that! But thats my view and my view alone, you can keep yours.
You have to work for Nandan man, you are gonna get heavy commissions.
Yeah and China also claims that they are working on 5 gen aircraft with plasma stealth and hypersonic scramjet engine, for half of the cost what west did. You can believe that if you want. Being a communist country and the way China deals with its people, then 1 billion people in 5 years is a failure. It shud had been 100% and you yourself answered your question. Is India communist? Does the government has same kind of control on our people, the way china has on its people? WB government allowed Tata to build Nano plant in singur, and we all know the rest of the story. That is the reality of india my friend, so dont compare us with China.
Well, you can claim they are communist and use it to shield our own incompetence, or you can assume they are doing better things and try to do more advanced things. Are you sure they don't have plasma tech and scramjet? I dunno but let's not get into it. What I know that until now, they have shown what they claim to do, unlike us that brag and boratcast before even the thing is completed. Well, if making 1 bil Chinese ID with one of the most high tech card on earth is a failure , then I rest my case, saar. That's the point we don't have control over the coountry and by making a better UID system, it is suppose to increase our control. Instead we are lowering standards.....
The SSN, the Chinese ID is for a different purpose compared to the UID of india. It will be very wrong to compare them. UID is not meant to identify its citizens and control/regulate them. That might be the future goal though. Right now its to make sure that people get the services they deserve without exploitation and middle men. Its more like a system which brings authenticity in government services, which is know for corruption and laid back attitude. Thats what makes it different from the rest of the world. Initially, I am pretty much sure that it won't be of much help to identify illegal immigrants. But that would change as the project progresses.
Btw, have you by any chance been to Singapore or China? I am not trying to be cocky here, but after you've been to those two places, you will see things differently and understand how far we lag behind others. I have seen Chinese ID in action in a bank, they just use RFID and wallah all info is on the computer to be verified and when I go to China for business trips, I don't need their ID system and yet I can still do business with my passport.