Re: Should we discontinue EVMs?
Posted: 11 Jul 2019 13:49
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Consortium of Indian Defence Websites
Wrong! This in NOT the only part that has to be "managed".kapilbishnoi wrote:The only part I could never figure out was "how to fool the voter's own eyes and still get VVPAT paper match with CU votes !!
Note ... the "Not cut" will leave the "total" vote count out of sync with the slip count. The count of votes has to match the slips when the physical verification is done! There is no escaping that scenario for VVPAT!(5) But the code will not cut banana paper slip.
kapilbishnoi wrote:The manipulation is done by code in VVPAT installed at manufacturing time.
VVPAT decides whether the vote should be changed
VVPAT decides whether the vote should be changed
if not, VVPAT sends 7 to CU
if yes, VVPAT sends 8 to CU
Nothing to do with EVM insider manipulation. The one who manipulates EVM is bigger than the sum of all these showcases
tenaliram wrote:The problem is that India needs a strong and active opposition. Currently, the opposition is in tatters and clueless and instead of analyzing the actual reasons for their failures and working on them, they are taking the easy way out and trying to build a false narrative of hacked EVMs.
Dileep wrote:The firmware is One Time Programmable. Once programmed, it can not be changed. The only way to have a different program is to replace the board.
The order of candidates will be known only after the final list is prepared. So, biasing it beforehand is impossible. The immensely resourceful Rahul Mehta proposed one of the most convoluted scheme for this, which is as theoretically possible and as easy as balancing a cone on its tip.
Machines are brought in en masse to the state and allocated randomly to the district, and then once again randomly to the constituency. So, any 'magically pre-biased' machine possibility is gone.
Machines are stored by the local babudom with involvement of the political parties. So, is there really a possibility of replacing the machines, or boards within the machines, except by Harry Potter technology?
And what am I doing here? Proving earth is round?
This is rather long (2 hour) technical presentation of Indian EVM's .. They are amazingly hack proof and reliable .. The presentation is by the renowned, IIT Prof who was involved in the design etc so it is for the technical people, yet most of the lecture (at least the first hour) can be followed by even non computer-scientists.
(I do have pdf slides of the above lecturer but I don't know if it is suitable to post it here)
..Now that we have VVPATs, let us make sure that the second V in VVPAT, which stands for "verified", is properly implemented.
Verification has not happened until the Voter sees the slip being printed, the slip being cut, and dropping into the box. This is what the VVPAT unit used to allow, until very recently. For unknown reasons, at the behest of unknown persons, the existing design was deliberately changed. Now, the voter can no longer see the slip being printed and being cut. So verification is no longer possible. The official EC videos which I had linked to in my original post show the difference between the old and new design...
And here is proof that I am NOT Rahulji. Plz, see all posts of Rahulji --- none talk about FLCU. That's because he didn't know about FLCU until I told him. And I came to know via my BEL friend.
In all EVMs used in the year 2004. code was sent to chip manufacturer in USA and chip manufacturer in the USA burnt the code in ROM. So the chip manufacturer was free to put any trojan inside !! This was the level of precaution taken
kapilbishnoi wrote:I will ignore personal attacks on me.
Meanwhile, you can google on fact hiding (same as speaking lies) done by ECI, BEL etc on EVM issue. ECI doc given to the public does not mention FLCU which was connected to CU after candidate number was issued in the year 2004, 2009 and also 2014. Please see a book by ex-Secretary Alok Sharma on EVM titled "Electronic Voting Machines" . I have read this book. This book also mentions FLCU but does not mention the fact that FLCU was connected to EVM after the candidate number was issued. FLCU was used in the year 2004 and also in 2009 and 2014. FLCU was probably not used in the year 2019. I am not sure about the year 2019.
( link to book --- https://www.amazon.in/Electronic-Voting ... oks&sr=1-1 )
ECI etc have also "hidden" the fact that, after candidate number is issued, a file from ECI server called as SLA-server is downloaded from server to PC in Collector's office, and then that file is uploaded into a custom device called SLA , and then that file from SLA is moved into VVPAT. The 2 hour video made by IIT mumbai professor Dinesh Sharma (link in Amberji's post above) does NOT mention that a file is downloaded into VVPAT after candidate number is issued. On the contrarty, a wrong claim is made that no external devide or PC etc is connected to EVM. Only a gullible can agree. If external device is not connected, then did VVPAT get candidate name, number and symbol?
Kannan Gopinathan (ex-IAS who supports art-370 and resigned by citing some nonsense) is now claiming that PAPER VOTES can also be manipulated in EVM, and he will soon explain how. Here is his tweet at https://twitter.com/naukarshah/status/1 ... 9478201344 -- " Later, I will try and share a thread on how a worst case analysis of VVPAT process allows another kind of manipulation that cannot be caught even in a 100% tallying of paper slips. "
So he will soon disclose Rahulji's algorithm of changing paper votes in VVPAT. My guess is that he will claim it as his own, I hate this guy because he is p-sec. Rahulji too is going to make his demo before the public (he has already put on FB). Let's see who goes first.
What a election!!
BJP is celebrating
Shiv sena is celebrating
NCP is celebrating
Congress is celebrating
JJP with 10 seats also celebrating.
Above all the most important is EC is celebrating. No complain on EVM
Pankajs, Amberji, Pratyush
Do you guys know how candidate number, name and his symbol is loaded into VVPAT? Is party name loaded into VVPAT? Do you know that VVPAT glass is ordinary both side transparent or whether it is front side mirror only back side transparent? And why is glass kept the way it is?
I think you dont know much about VVPAT. You have general statements about how good BEL people are and how good theier processes are,. None of them apply here. Here, presumption is that inner employees can put malacious code at the time of manufacturing (not after). And with that alone, once code is planted, only 1 person is needed change votes across India --- the administrator of SLA server inside ECI
I saw the two hour video by IIT Mumbai professor Dr Dinesh Sharma twice,. Rahuji's proposed malacious code will pass thru all safety features mentioned in that 2 hour video. The malacious code is put in all or some 10 lakh VVPAT ROM in factory. Or in truck/warehouse if VVPAT ROM is reprogrammable or replaceable. The video only talks that EVM ROM is OTP. And that CU will break if attempt is made to open inner portions. But nowhere does the video talk about VVPAT ROM. .In fact, video hides the fact that VVPAT data is uploaded after candidate numbers are issued by collector. And video gives false impression that no PC is connected to EVM. Reality is that a PC is connected to SLU and then that SLU is collected VVPAT , and that too after candidate numbers are issued. So via that PC, via SLU, candidate number to be favored and datetime can be passed to VVPAT. Dinesh Shrmaji is hiding this fact. See if you can ask him to put this fact on his facebook profile in black and white.
(1) It is presumption (of myself and Rahuji, and many) that apex INSIDERS will try and succeed in getting malacious code inside EVM VVPAT at the time of manufacturing, as long as it ensures that outsiders as collectors, presiding officers, voters etc cant notice.
So features like private key etc dont effect them. They effect only outsiders who have no access to insiders. In fact,. from begining of this thread in year 2009, Rahulji has maintained that "EVMs perhaps can NOT be HACKED by outsiders, but can indeed be TEMPERED by INSIDERS".
EVM is single purpose machine with perhaps no OS, no bootcode, and no instructions in ROM to take instructions from outside. And so insiders can make it immune to OUTSIDERS. The inner part replacement can be made difficult and replacement of BU / CU / VVPAT can be made almost impossible using private-public keys. But none of these features stop INSIDERS from putting malacious code insider VVPAT right at the time of manufacturing, Or, insiders can leak private keys to certain key persons, who can then change board of VVPATs in transit. In any case, I (and most of us anti-EVM people) are only talking about INSIDER TEMPERING cases.
(2) My allegation on Prof Dinesh Sharmaji about of "hiding facts" was not just wrt to his 2 hr speech alone, but applies on ECI, and TEC aka Technical Expert Committee (which consists of four IIT professors along with Dinesh Sharmaji) . This is what they have "hidden"
Say polling is on 23-apr-2019 . Then on 09-apr-2019, collector will print so called FORM-7A , which is list of all contesting candidates. This form7A has their serial numbers , names in English and local language, and symbol. (Party name is NOT put on EVM or ballot papers since British days). Now ALL data of this list has to be converted into a file and then loaded into 2000 VVPATs of that Loksabha,.
So what exact machines and steps are used , is HIDDEN from public by gentlemen in ECI and TEC.
Of course, collector etc know. But there is no public document on ECI and no video made by ECI which shows the steps. The candidate list FILE is made on a server located in ECI , and then that file is uploaded into all 2000 VVPAT machines via PC via SLU. I have given details before.
So a key information that, AFTER candidate numbers are issued, a SERVER under human communicates to VVPAT was kept HIDDEN to public at large. Because this can create doubt that SERVER can communicate candidate number to be favored to malacious code inside VVPAT. And also exact datetime when polling will start.
So manipulating electronic votes for VVPAT is now piece-o-cake.
So only problem now for VVPATs is --- how to manipulate paper votes in a way voters , testers and staff must NOT notice.
And Rahuji's video demonstrates AN ALGORITHM by which malacious code inside VVPAT can manipulate paper vote printing, and fool crores of voters as well as lakhs of presiding officers
Now, how do you know that malacious paper vote manipulating algorithm given by Rahulji in his video, is not present inside VVPAT ROM?
You have trust in insiders. Thats all. Trust !!!
Well, I dont want to comment on trust part.
I want to present "what if" analysis on "what if insiders have managed to put malacious code, demonstrated by Rahulji, inside VVPAT and SLA server"? In that case, crores of votes get stolen !! And so we should ban this EVM nonsense.
aside: in general, insiders do more damage in banks or judiciary than outsiders. eg no bank robber could have robbed 1000s of crores due to "safeguards". But none of those safeguards stopped banks' insiders.