Indian Banks & Financial System

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Vivek K
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Vivek K »

chetak wrote:
When KFA was running, it was the best damn airline in India.
Really? I thought Mallya was a criminal because he got a loan from his Chacha the politician without collaterals and ran away with the money.
It provided excellent and often unmatched services that were driven by mallaya's ego for perfection and not the usual airline economics.
Boss - someone's drive for perfection is not a vice! It would be appreciated if others had the same vice.
Many of his own employees were hugely ripping him off, especially the senior lot.

Given all that and the shenanigans that were got up to later, they sank the airline.

Mallaya is headstrong was also new to the airline industry, so he depended on advice from outsiders and he got it from the wrong people.
So it was his employees that sank the airline? Not stealing the free loans he got from chacha ji?

At the end of the day - India needs large industries. For this to grow Indian attitudes have to change.
Vivek K
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Vivek K »

chetak wrote:
If goyal's airline sank, good riddance. They just could not hack it.
Wow! Cool eh! KFA, JA.... Here today, gone tomorrow. Sab chalta hai. More chai biskoot?
the owner is running a private enterprise. Tax payers don't figure in the equation. Profits are corporatized and losses are socialized which is nothing but lemon socialism.

"socialize the losses and privatize the gains," is not anyone's idea of being "business friendly" It is a commie pipedream of a ploy to rip off the taxpayer for the benefit of favored owners. Why would Modi do such a stoopide thing when his is not the responsible govt for sinking of so many shady airlines in India
Thank goodness the rest of the world is not so upright!! Man great moral lesson! And this in a country where 90% of the people do not pay taxes. But morally we are so upright or should i say uptight?
BTW, you have to dig much, much deeper into google to find out why jet sank and why they were banned from flying to the US.

As regarding what happened, there are many on the forum who will be able to give you chapter and verse but one doubts if anybody will do so because this is an open forum.

airline employees are well educated and will find themselves other jobs. The class IV employees are all contractor supplied and many have been redeployed in other places. I know this for a fact. Those who are still sitting at home are the unfortunate unemployable.

No govt will ever agree to "support" such employees by giving them govt jobs or whatever or even absorbing them in Air India, it will take only a handful of highly politically and babooze connected family members and just those few will get on board
I guess people who lose jobs should come and get their worthiness certificate from O'Great one to be considered worth supporting. Or like Duterte says - "we care less if they live or die".
"Business friendly" does not mean that everyone's job is guaranteed in perpetuity by the govt. That would be political suicide and open a brand new avenue for "inspired" failures by shady enterprises and crooked entrepreneurs.
Everything is political. Hmm... why do other countries support their businesses? I wonder.......
Ambar
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Ambar »

It appears like you are incapable of debating without resorting to sarcasm, mockery or ridicule of anyone who disagrees with you. If you think the ED, CBI, the judiciary, 12 PSU banks all have a vendetta against Mallya/Nirav Modi/Singhals and their ilk then you are entitled to your opinion. It has been proved beyond any doubt that there was outright fraud in many of these large loans which resulted in huge non-performing liabilities to the public sector banks. Did they start their business with an intention of duping the banks ? Probably not but somewhere along the way they just used their contacts to systematically loot the banks, strip the assets that served as collateral and left the banks holding an empty bag. Mallya and Nirvan Modi weren't the first and they won't be the last.

In other news Sachin has mentioned the unravelling of a prominent cooperative bank in KL. Karuvannur Cooperative Service Bank (KCB) fraud news will have huge repercussions to KL state’s economy . While there are already powers trying to muddy the waters, atleast from some news the preliminary estimates indicate a fraud at KCB at Rs 104 crore. According to reports, apart from the siphoning of the bank funds through illegal lending, the bank , like most cooperative banks was used as a cover for money laundering operations running into hundreds of crores.On a per capital basis, i don't think any state in India has more deposits per capita in cooperative banks than Kerala . The MH State Cooperative bank scam is said to have exposure of Rs 25,000 crores. After the Rs 10,00,000 crore in NPA that the PSU banks are holding, the next ticking timebomb are the cooperative banks.
chetak
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by chetak »

Vivek K wrote:
chetak wrote:
When KFA was running, it was the best damn airline in India.
Really? I thought Mallya was a criminal because he got a loan from his Chacha the politician without collaterals and ran away with the money.
It provided excellent and often unmatched services that were driven by mallaya's ego for perfection and not the usual airline economics.
Boss - someone's drive for perfection is not a vice! It would be appreciated if others had the same vice.
Many of his own employees were hugely ripping him off, especially the senior lot.

Given all that and the shenanigans that were got up to later, they sank the airline.

Mallaya is headstrong was also new to the airline industry, so he depended on advice from outsiders and he got it from the wrong people.
So it was his employees that sank the airline? Not stealing the free loans he got from chacha ji?

At the end of the day - India needs large industries. For this to grow Indian attitudes have to change.
Any which way you slice it, there is no getting away from the fact that he was a crook. There are hundreds of such congi favorites who are all lying very low now, hoping that the storm will pass.

but even crooks have to be hard working and this crook was very hard working

mallaya worked around 18 hrs a day, rain or shine, no holidays because he had work across time zones. Constantly on the move, he slept on his plane during transit. Apart from running all his other businesses simultaneously, he also ran the airline. This was stoopide.

He could conduct his own elaborate pujas with the panache of a celebrity pujari without making a mistake and he often did. Some of his meetings at KFA would run well past 18-20 hrs and the guy didn't even take a bio break nor did he eat during meetings.

He could unfailingly pick up a conversation with anyone even after a month and a half, and continue as though never interrupted, never forgot names and unfortunately he never was and never will be an airline guy.

the calender girls were used for his "king of good times" image and the kingfisher brand. Everyone got the wrong idea. one of his progeny was always in an uplifting mood and some of the calender girls may have been more than cooperative.

but at the end of the day, he was a crook and one who got caught. He took the loans after using dubious methods, it was his company, he was the boss and his neck is in the noose and metamorphically speaking, he will be hanged, one way or another.

A lot of the KFA senior management were iffy. Many were from competing airlines and were of the shady types who ran to KFA before they were fired from their previous company. After the merger, KFA HR fired more than 85% of other company guys. So much for "business friendly".

Some guys in HR and finance were so shady that they would have easily cast shadows on a pitch dark night.

Airlines are different from other industry. You need airline guys to run them. Rarely do guys from other industries fit in and in India especially, the margins are wafer thin and each day, the numbers tell a slightly different story when the varying load factors, weather, airport delays, fuel uptake, available aircrafts, turn arounds and cargo mixes are factored in.

My last on this.
disha
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by disha »

And zero discussion on eRUPI
Vivek K
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Vivek K »

Ambar wrote:It appears like you are incapable of debating without resorting to sarcasm, mockery or ridicule of anyone who disagrees with you.
Definitely not the intent. But when you equate Indian industrialists with Dawood, you set yourself up for sarcasm. And you need to have an open mind to debate. You are convinced that Indian industrialists are thieves, steal all loans and basically need to be imprisoned. That helps no one.

If you go through my posts, you may realize that industry helps and has helped build the nation despite one of the worst industrial climates in the world (ranked 130 of 190 countries in 2015 and 100 of 190 a couple of years later).
venkat_kv
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by venkat_kv »

Vivek K wrote:
Ambar wrote:It appears like you are incapable of debating without resorting to sarcasm, mockery or ridicule of anyone who disagrees with you.
Definitely not the intent. But when you equate Indian industrialists with Dawood, you set yourself up for sarcasm. And you need to have an open mind to debate. You are convinced that Indian industrialists are thieves, steal all loans and basically need to be imprisoned. That helps no one.

If you go through my posts, you may realize that industry helps and has helped build the nation despite one of the worst industrial climates in the world (ranked 130 of 190 countries in 2015 and 100 of 190 a couple of years later).
Vivek K Saar,
nobody on this forum has asked to dispense with the industrialists as a whole. we want our industries to flourish and industrialists to become bigger and inspire more people to take up business. but this has to be done the right way. right now you are saying its okay if Mallya or Nirav modi scammed the public banks and tax payer money to continue their way of life as we have to encourage industrialists. tomorrow the common man on the street will also show that he has to feed his family and is a bread earner so he can also scam the bank (albeit in a lower amount of few lakhs or thousands). this will only result in people not having any sense of discipline or hard work as you can always put up and excuse from paying back the loans.

the issue with businesses and business friendly practice is a different issue that needs legislation to improve the business climate in the country. India improving in the business index has reduction in macro factors like providing electricity, improving infrastructure and simplifying the tax codes a bit with a single window policy of giving permissions. it doesn't take into account the day to day raiding of various depts that come in for their cut. It just means India still has some means to go to improve its business related issues.

America has a dollar as the reserve currency of the world and can print money to save what ever they feel like saving - companies, industrialists, unions , technologies whatever. Do we have the same luxury to follow the same principles to save our industrialists come what may, by printing the missing money, even when the so called industrialists have just run a scam. may be not Mallya specifically, there were a host of companies in the list of the NPA's that had taken loans beyond their means and invested the funds in places other than their said businesses. The banks are equally culpable but do you have a solution that is workable, practical and stand the scrutiny of the courts?

The west has business practices far longer than India's and their laws are also reflect the same. when did we enact our bankruptcy laws compared to the west. Always blindly focusing on what the West does may not be optimal. we can certainly learn from them but will have our own growing pains to go through before we have our list of success.
venkat_kv
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by venkat_kv »

disha wrote:And zero discussion on eRUPI
Disha Saar,
My view on eRUPI is a bit mixed. From what i can collect info, its more of a voucher that is being used for specific purpose of paying to beneficiaries or end user. I have not found info which says if the existing govt schemes will come under eRUPI scheme.

Like Govt paying a particular family and then it uses the eRUPI to pay for medical bills. while at just a glance I can say that it will save govt a lot of money, I am not sure if it will help BJP in elections based on what has so far been offered.

for an example Right now govt. is giving money in peoples account that they are using as and how they feel like. Central govt schemes of giving farmers 10000 per year per acre, and the farmer can use it as and how he wishes it. But with eRUPI, the concerned farmer can only use this 10K for farm related expenses. normally it shouldn't be a problem, but things are not really black and white no? most well to do farmers may not avail or farmers using natural farming methods like zero budget may not use it for buying chemical fertilizers or pesticides. So it maynot be used up and in the end govt might save money.

If this is the case, will the farmer still be happy to vote for central govt than say the opposition which might come with freebies.

but this is in the absence of more info.
kvraghav
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by kvraghav »

Can we say that the eRUPI is like a DD but can be cashed immediately using the Banks App or website like UPI payments? These will then be like high currency notes.
Cyrano
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Cyrano »

I think the Govt has identified a set of use cases where aid disbursement in cash is still going to the wrong people or is being misused. E-Rupi is designed to plug some of these holes - thus reducing scope for scams which fund corrupt politicians, parties and BIFs.

Its much harder to punish scamsters after they swindle Govt funds and in any case the embezzled money is rarely recovered. So plug the holes at the source with structural changes like eRupi. A smart pragmatic and long term approach.

Follows the mould of farm law reforms, coop banking reforms etc...
disha
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by disha »

Venkat Sir, your view of eRupi as a voucher is correct. Let's not bring in whether it will win vote or not. Modi's GOI generally wants to do the right thing.

Actually eRupi is a game changer. Let me explain, and later I will also incorporate your use case for a farmer.

Couple eRupi with JAM. JAM is an authentication & authorization step for a service or a product. That is, given your JAM (Jan Dhan account, Aadhar & Mobile) one can authenticate who you are. With your Jan Dhan and Aadhar & mobile one can authorize what service you are eligible for. For some services you may not need Jan Dhan account, mobile and and Aadhar will do.

Now let's say the ministry for women and child welfare wants to provide nutritional laddoo to each child at the anganwadi.

Here is a fotu of an anganwadi where the kids are getting their mid-day meal. I think the kids deserve at least a laddoo each every day. Just for being nice cute kids.

Image

Now, GoI can send eVouchers to the phones of the parents of the kids registered at the Anganwadi. The parents can go to any Laddoo vendor in their rural village or town. Some vendors specialize in selling laddoos but there are general mart vendors who source laddoos from other parts of India.

A laddoo manufacturer, say LadduRam (tm) has perfected healthy nutritious laddoo (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/lif ... d=77225110) and mass manufacturers 100k laddoos a day to be distributed throughout India.

There is a demand for LaddooRam laddoos in Delhi's Hauz Khas as well as in the remote village where the anganwaadi is situated.

Of course the laddoo manufacturer has no distribution channel into the anganwaadis itself. And does not want to interact with state governments to provide them laddoos to be redistributed for mid-day meal scheme. That is, by itself the angaanwadis do not have a way to provide quality laddoos to the kids.

How can you deprive laddoos from their cute eaters? That deprivation is criminal to laddoo. But now, you can go to the local kirana shop, ask for Ladoo and then scan the evoucher that will pay for that laddoo. In fact you may have couple of eVouchers as well for other general items like toor dal or say special soaps or personal hygiene items. But right now my eye is on the laddoo.

The eVoucher will ensure who got the service, who got paid and where. For the kirana store, its just another sale. Now duly recorded in digital. They just need to send the sale information to the local distributor who consolidates and sends to the manufacturer. And the manufacturer presents the vouchers to the GOI to get back the money or registers against its own CSR.

Point is, that GOI has completely reused the existing efficient distribution channel to provide a targetted delivery of a service (nutritional laddoo is a service and health intervention). LaddooRam(tm) manufactures at a mass scale and actually it would be a great marketing for LaddooRam(tm) to be selected as a certified manufacturer. In fact it can advertise that when it advertises its nutritional laddoos to mass market.

Replace Laddoo with

* Drip irrigation system for farmers (any ISI certified system can be transacted from anywhere)
* Solar panel installation
* Medical diagnostic services (you get a QR-code on your phone which can be used to get a chest X-ray)
* Internet services for BRF Jingoes
* Medicines for BP, Diabetes etc weekly/monthly from any medical shop

Take a step further. You are running a successful travel agency. To your staff you want to give a perk. You can buy Rs. 1000/- eVouchers from GOI to be used for UDAN. And you give two e-Vouchers to your employee. Using the UDAN scheme (https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 53301.html), the employee or their parents (or near or dear ones) can avail a flight to a very well deserved destination vacation (or pilgrimage, since UDAN serves Shirdi, Varanasi etc).

Disclaimers:
* Laddoo was an illustrative example. Please do not go into debate of which Laddoo is better. All laddoos are to be equally and equitably consumed. Without any discrimination.
* As an employee perk UDAN is another example. Feel free to replace with eVouchers to movie tickets for say Uri or Sardar.

Added later:

This is indeed a game changer. The entire CONgoon culture and in some cases even the state bureacracy can be bypassed. Think of eVouchers for LED bulbs, or battery powered Scooters.

BJP MPs and MLAs should step up and start enrolling their voter base into JAM and eVoucher schemes.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by bharathp »

in addition to the above, this has done away with providing cash transfers to people which could be used for purpose other than its intended for.
let me give an example:
say, there are a LOT of OBC/SC/ST students who get scholarship from the govt towards their fee + living. now MANY of these students are benami or even some in their 40s still collecting funds - they just use the funds for their own purpose instead of their intended use (fees/hostel)
now using this voucher system, you can only redeem a monthly rent or a semester fee and NOTHING ELSE from the govt.

this also reduces the leakage of govt funds.

these sort of policies just make me admire the current dispensation and make me shudder at the amount of malaise that was "allowed" and cultivated by the past govts to put their stooges on the leakge areas so they can make billions on money intended for the poor.
Ambar
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Ambar »

Isn't this similar to the EBT/Food Stamp system in the US but with a more wider use ? I do wonder why the JanDhan could not have this problem directly ? Ex : You are eligible for govt welfare program for education, then using Jandhan as a passthrough the funds can be directly deposited into the account of the service provider be it a IIT or a ladoo maker. Nevertheless, when the dust settles and history is written, NaMo will be remembered more for his leakproof (as humanly leakfproof as possible but we know how crooked our babus and netas are) welfare schemes than anything else.
disha
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by disha »

+72 BharathP'ji

Ambar'ji., Jan Dhan account is a scatter shot. Take the case of Laddoo, Drip Irrigation & PhD Student. If you give say Rs. 100, Rs, 1000 and Rs. 10,000 into an account, how would you know the money will be used for the right purpose?

How would you know that the money meant for Laddoo, is taken forcibly by a liquor addict to drink litres of liquor little by little? How would you know that the money deposited in a student's account is not spent on online betting?

The leaks are plug'ed both ways. That is, there is no Rajiv Gandhi and his stooges giving loans in loan mela and screwing economy and neither the money is used for unintended purposes.

Also with the voucher the person knows exactly the service she is receiving. Take the case of vouchers for Udan which a private enterprise can issue as perks to its employees. Extend it to say buying handloom sarees. Or Khadi kurtas.

I can basically go to a disaster area, provide vouchers to all the affected and they can go anywhere in India and exchange voucher for any service. Food to housing to transportation to water to hygiene. You name it, the service can be rolled out. Also leakages within the voucher system can be tracked, since who got what where and from whom is all transparent.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by bharathp »

disha wrote: If you give say Rs. 100, Rs, 1000 and Rs. 10,000 into an account, how would you know the money will be used for the right purpose?

I can basically go to a disaster area, provide vouchers to all the affected and they can go anywhere in India and exchange voucher for any service. Food to housing to transportation to water to hygiene. You name it, the service can be rolled out. Also leakages within the voucher system can be tracked, since who got what where and from whom is all transparent.
this!

extend this to organized chanda vasooli - or donations to charitable causes.
"this voucher can only go towards this activity from here" creates a strong end to end payment system cutting out any middle men and no more commissions.
if you want/need a commission it has to be spelt out and paid openly.

this is sort of like a specific usage currency. you get a "laddoo rupee" or "college fee rupee" for only those use cases. anywhere else that rupee is worthless. and since these are prepaid, the guy receiving the coupon just has to enchash them (no need to wait for govt to re-imburse).
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Cyrano »

Great detailing Disha and bharathp jis!
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Ambar »

Yes Bank fraud: Delhi Court sends Avantha Group promoter Gautam Thapar to one-day ED custody
The Enforcement Directorate (ED) has arrested Avantha Group promoter Gautam Thapar under Prevention of Money Laundering Act (PMLA) in connection with a case relating to the alleged Yes Bank fraud.

Officials in the agency said Thapar was arrested under the provisions of the PMLA on Tuesday night after ED personnel carried out raids against him and his linked businesses in Delhi and Mumbai.

“Thapar was today produced before a special court here and after hearing arguments from both sides, the police remand of one-day was granted. But the court also granted permission for 30 minutes of legal interview with the accused in the ED’s office today. The court then listed the matter for 2 PM, Thursday,” said Thapar’s lawyer Sandeep Kapur of Karanjawala & Co.

The ED has been probing an alleged transaction between his company Avantha Realty, Yes Bank co-founder Rana Kapoor and his wife, who are already being investigated under the PMLA by the agency. The case of money laundering was filed by the ED after taking cognisance of an FIR lodged by the CBI. — TNS
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... ase-293122
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Pratyush »

What's with the Indian promotors and money laundering.

It's almost as if the money these people are making is not enough for sustaining a decent standard of living. They all have to be living large.

A promoter of 10000 + crores business group needs to launder a few 100 crores.

I am sure that for every one like him. There are dozens of honest ones. But actions of people like this makes question about the failure of the honest ones as well.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by bharathp »

Pratyush wrote:What's with the Indian promotors and money laundering.

It's almost as if the money these people are making is not enough for sustaining a decent standard of living. They all have to be living large.

A promoter of 10000 + crores business group needs to launder a few 100 crores.

I am sure that for every one like him. There are dozens of honest ones. But actions of people like this makes question about the failure of the honest ones as well.
that was an inherent way to make money because the monies were needed to get necessary permissions, bribes, favourable court outcomes etc.
the entire setup up until 2000's was "unless you had connections, you cannot start or run a successful venture"
the "connections" wanted their share of the moolah- which can only be created through laundering.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by venkat_kv »

Bharathp and disha Saar,
You both have explained it much more succinctly with examples. this is what I meant when i said that e-RUPI will save govt money as it is going for targeted disbursal of money. But will it give the affected populace the same respite which was done earlier with cash transfers.

A good govt and good governance needs to be rewarded repeatedly so thta the next one can continue with the reforms, else crooks with their fake narratives, pressure tactics and sponsored protests will stymie the reform efforts, anyways my last on the politics parts.

Lets hope this e-RUPI takes off and doesn't get stymied with protests by the ususal suspects.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Ambar »

Monetary policy review: RBI holds rates steady, ups inflation forecast. The Reserve Bank of India (RBI) on Friday kept its policy rates and stance unchanged and promised to remain accommodative as long as necessary, even as it raised its inflation projections.

The Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) of the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) on Friday left the key policy rate, the repo rate, unchanged for the seventh time in a row while retaining its accommodative stance to “revive and sustain growth on a durable basis and continue to mitigate the impact of Covid-19 on the economy”.

Unveiling the bi-monthly monetary policy, the RBI panel however raised the projection for retail inflation to 5.7 per cent in the financial year 2021-22 from 5.1 per cent earlier, quite close to its upper tolerance limit in the 2-6 per cent band. It also underlined that the recovery “remains uneven across sectors and needs to be supported by all policymakers”.
Not at all a prudent decision. Keeping aside the hardly believable CPI figures when RBI themselves are foreseeing a higher inflation what is the point in keeping interest rates at record low ? From Mexico to Brazil to UK and even the ever-dovish US fed are talking about tapering to contain inflation and cool down an overheating market, it is time for RBI to pull back from the extraordinary measures they've taken over the last 15 months.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by bharathp »

Ambar ji
I thought the US Fed doesnt believe that inflation is going to be a problem in the long term. they are calling it "transitory" inflation and expect it to be back to 2% range (their target) in next "few years". I dont think they were going to consider tapering to "contain inflation" but to remove stimulus. their rate hikes will be much further down the road (after the taper)
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Ambar »

The definition of "transitory" continues to evolve in the US. First the fed said the inflation will last few "weeks" , then it was until summer and now they say it may last until end of the year. Even if the cost of raw materials settle down, i don't see how shipping cost, which has quadrupled since last year , or the increase in wages will come down . The US Fed and the Euro ECB have injected obscene amount of liquidity since 2009 and i don't think they have a way out. Increase the interest rate to match the "real" inflation and risk a massive crash in the bond market, besides the interest burden alone on the 28 trillion dollar debt will strangulate the whole system if the rates were ever to rise significantly. But continuing to keep interest rates so low for so long ( a decade and counting) is sure to further increase inflationary pressure, make housing even more unaffordable to millions.

Coming back to India it is time for RBI to mop up excess liquidity and increase the interest rate. The current environment is eerily similar to 2007-08 just before the great recession hit. Extremely hot real estate market thanks to record low interest rates (and ofcourse the ever present black money), very high food and energy prices, wage inflation and bad loans. The current RBI repo rate is at a historic low and very confusing when the inflation is running so high. Ironically just few months ago RBI had themselves warned of a highly combustible combination of growing public debt with loose monetary and fiscal policies.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Ambar »

Here's some news about the newly formed "bad bank" to hold the distressed loans.
The wait for government-backed Bad Bank is only getting longer as the shareholders, mostly public sector banks (PSBs), are still to meet the Rs 100 crore net owned funds requirement, which is the Reserve Bank of India-mandated requirement for setting up an asset reconstruction company (ARC).

The bad bank's structure is two-layered with the National Asset Reconstruction Company (NARCL) operating as an ARC and a separate asset management company called India Debt Management Agency (IDMA) restructuring and turning around the bad loans.

According to sources, the NARCL is in the final stage of meeting the minimum Rs 100 crore capital requirement. Currently, the NARCL has a current paid-up capital of Rs 74.60 crore.

"The existing investors have made some commitment towards capital as the business scales up. There are other banks too, that would be joining as new shareholders. Capital is not an issue for us," says one of the shareholding bank's representatives on the NARCL.

There is no direct capital infusion by the government, though it would be offering some guarantee against the security receipts, which are issued to the (bad loan) selling bank as part of the consideration. The existing authorised capital of NARCL is Rs 100 crore. The board of the company has recently given its nod for hiking the capital to Rs 200 crore. In the first phase, NARCL will be increasing the paid-up share capital to Rs 149.20 crore. New banks will likely join as shareholders.

Currently, there are eight PSBs, which have contributed Rs 74.60 crore. Canara Bank has contributed the highest equity capital of Rs 12 crore capital. Four banks -- State Bank of India, Union Bank of India, Bank of Baroda and Indian Bank -- have contributed Rs 9.90 crore each. Two banks -- Punjab National Bank and Bank of India -- have provided Rs 9 crore each.

The Mid-sized Bank of Maharashtra has given Rs 5 crore.

Four years ago, the RBI had increased the minimum capital requirement for ARC from Rs 2 crore to Rs 100 crore. The idea was to attract serious players in the bad loan resolution market.

In a market where there are over a dozen private ARCs, the setting up of another ARC is part of the government's game plan to clean up the bad loans so the lenders, especially PSBs, direct their energies in lending to productive sectors.

The PSBs have shortlisted close to two dozen NPA accounts, with a total loan value of close to Rs 90,000 crore, which would get transferred to NARCL in the first phase. These loans would be parked in separate trusts under the ARC.

NARCL is headed by SBI's former MD Padmakumar Madhavan Nair, while other directors are Sunil Mehta, IBA's chief executive, Salee Sukumaran Nair, SBI deputy managing director and Ajit Krishnan Nair from Canara Bank.

In the Union Budget 2021-22, the finance minister had announced the formation of an ARC and AMC structure to buy the bad loans of PSBs. The FM had then said the ARC-AMC would manage and dispose of the assets to alternate investment funds (AIFs) and other investors for eventual value realisation.

Once operational, the NARCL would boost the PSBs valuations in the market. This would actually help the banks put up for sale and privatisation by the government.
There are still many unanswered questions about NARCL. Rs 90,000 crores is less than 1/10th of the total NPAs carried by the banks, what happens to the remaining amount or will that be written off ?

Will NARCL play any role in taking over assets of failing or failed banks ? If yes, will it include cooperative banks as well ? Cooperative banks post similar level if not a greater level of threat to our economy as PSU banks with large NPAs. Just in 2020 alone over 44 cooperative banks informed RBI that they were in trouble.

Until 2020 Nirmala Sitharaman and the RBI were against creating a "bad bank" and instead decided to marry healthier PSU banks with less healthier ones to avoid creating a bad bank. But now that NARCL is a reality, and the PSUs will be able to remove the stressed assets from their books, what steps are they taking not to repeat the same mistakes of the past and end up with new NPAs ?
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Ambar »

India's 'Bad Bank' Nearer To Fruition: IBA Moves RBI Seeking Licence To Set up ₹6,000-crore National Asset Reconstruction Company
The Indian Banks' Association (IBA) has moved an application to the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) seeking licence to set up a ₹6,000-crore National Asset Reconstruction Company Ltd (NARCL) or bad bank, PTI reported quoting sources privy to the development.

During her FY22 budget speech, Union Finance Minister Nirmala Sitharaman announced the bad bank' proposal to manage the bad debt of public sector banks and other financial institutions. Under the plan, the proposed 'bad bank' will house bad loans of ₹500 crore and above with a structure that will contain an asset reconstruction company (ARC) and an asset management company (AMC) to manage and recover bad assets.

NARCL, which was was incorporated in July, has reportedly mobilised an initial capital of ₹100 crore and fulfilled other legal formalities before approaching RBI seeking licence to undertake asset reconstruction business.

The proposed NARCL would be 51 per cent owned by public sector banks PSBs and the remaining by private-sector lenders. Sponsored by Canara Bank, other public sector lenders such as Union Bank of India and Punjab National Bank will also have stakes in NARCL.

Indian banks have identified 22 loan accounts worth a total outstanding of ₹89,000 crore to shift to the proposed National Asset Reconstruction Company (NARCL). The aggregate amount of bad loans likely to be transferred in trenches will be ₹2 trillion(₹2 lakh crores).

IBA, entrusted with the task of setting up a bad bank, has put a preliminary board for NARCL in place. The company has hired Padmakumar Madhavan Nair,, a stressed assets expert from State Bank of India (SBI), as the managing director. The other directors on the board are IBA Chief Executive Sunil Mehta, SBI Deputy Managing Director S S Nair and Canara Bank's Chief General Manager Ajit Krishnan Nair.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Ambar »

In the month of July just four companies - Devyani Internation, Krshnaa Diagnostics, Windlas Biotech and Exxaro Tiles managed to collect a whooping 1.71 lakh crores through IPOs. These 4 companies are a fraction of the number of IPOs launched this year and there are more to come .23 companies have submitted their documents at SEBI seeking permission to launch its primary shares worth Rs 40,000 crores. While it is great that companies are managing to rise capital with relative ease , i am very uneasy about longterm prospects of many of these companies. I feel we are back in the early 90s or late 2010 period when there was a IPO bonanza, and many unscrupulous promoters used the stock market to rise hundreds of crores in capital and then vanished. A preliminary investigation earlier this year by BSE found 50 companies listed on the Sensex were not only less than truthful in their documentation but their businesses did not even exist in the addresses submitted on the paperwork ! Over 700 such companies have been identified in the recent years.

Unless the bourses, the regulator and the finance ministry is scrutinizing these new IPOs closely, i feel many investors will have a rude awakening when some of their investments disappears into thin air. Looking at how well the Finance ministry and SEBI have handled the NSE colocation scam, i am not counting on them doing anything to stop dishonest IPOs from getting listed.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by V_Raman »

There was a post long ago in BR - Indian political system still runs on collecting hafta from businesses at every scale - unlike the western world where politicos have moved on to a different level to collect the hafta and leave most of the businesses alone.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by srin »

Ambar wrote:In the month of July just four companies - Devyani Internation, Krshnaa Diagnostics, Windlas Biotech and Exxaro Tiles managed to collect a whooping 1.71 lakh crores through IPOs. These 4 companies are a fraction of the number of IPOs launched this year and there are more to come .23 companies have submitted their documents at SEBI seeking permission to launch its primary shares worth Rs 40,000 crores. While it is great that companies are managing to rise capital with relative ease , i am very uneasy about longterm prospects of many of these companies. I feel we are back in the early 90s or late 2010 period when there was a IPO bonanza, and many unscrupulous promoters used the stock market to rise hundreds of crores in capital and then vanished. A preliminary investigation earlier this year by BSE found 50 companies listed on the Sensex were not only less than truthful in their documentation but their businesses did not even exist in the addresses submitted on the paperwork ! Over 700 such companies have been identified in the recent years.

Unless the bourses, the regulator and the finance ministry is scrutinizing these new IPOs closely, i feel many investors will have a rude awakening when some of their investments disappears into thin air. Looking at how well the Finance ministry and SEBI have handled the NSE colocation scam, i am not counting on them doing anything to stop dishonest IPOs from getting listed.
It is actually good that they are planning to raise money from the market and (creative accounting apart) their books will get scrutinized by so many fund managers and equity researchers. I'd prefer to have the companies raise money through IPO and equity than through debt from banks.

If the fundamentals are not good or you think it is risky, don't invest (I don't invest in any IPOs as a general rule, which has served me quite well).
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Ambar »

Sensex on verge of hitting 60000 pts ! I hope someone at SEBI and RBI are watching this carefully because with elections around the corner I wouldn't be too surprised if the market is being purposefully inflated so that they can crash it at the right time. To put things in perspective, sensex is up a whooping 40% above its pre-pandemic high , this when the GDP has contracted.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by la.khan »

Ambar wrote:Sensex on verge of hitting 60000 pts ! I hope someone at SEBI and RBI are watching this carefully because with elections around the corner I wouldn't be too surprised if the market is being purposefully inflated so that they can crash it at the right time. To put things in perspective, sensex is up a whooping 40% above its pre-pandemic high , this when the GDP has contracted.
It is mystifying how Sensex scaled 60K :eek: when the Indian economy & the global economy has suffered so much because of Chinese Wuhan Covid19 virus. It is my personal opinion that Sensex is inflated. Considering the amount of economic pain India is in, Sensex should be between 42-45K :-?
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by la.khan »

I know I am slow/late to the payment app adoption. I am very comfortable with net banking/NEFT. I tend to pay my bills/taxes online using NEFT. So, my reliance on cash has come down drastically (usually to pay the milkman, servant maid, buy fruits, vegetables, small grocery items like milk, curd, bread etc).

So, to further reduce usage of cash, I started to look at payment apps. I see these apps accepted by most stores, even for amounts as less as Rs.10/- or even Rs.5/-. The popular ones are PayTM, MobiQwik, GPay, AmazonPay, PhonePe, BHIM app. I wish to start using one of these, though I have my own fears of safety & security.

1. PayTM, MobiQwik - have significant % of Chinese investors
2. GPay, AmazonPay - US multinationals
3. PhonePe - spun off by Flipkart as a separate entity. Since Walmart has purchased Flipkart, PhonePe may have Walmart stake/influence.
4. BHIM app - owned by NPCI, a GoI initiative/firm

Did I list all of them or did I miss any popular app? Please list any other popular app if I missed it.

I prefer to avoid 1 & 2 above. If there is an Indian app that can reliably, safely do the job, why should I use a US/Chinese app? I was planning to install BHIM app. This is a GoI owned app. May be, the govt will know how much I paid a fruit seller or vegetable seller. I see no reason why my data should go to a US or Chinese company.

I prefer to use either BHIM app and/or PhonePe. Will either of these apps allow me to add multiple accts? Will I be allowed to add savings account (in my own name) and current account (in my firm's name)? For each payment/trxn, do I get to choose from which acct to pay from?

Each of my transaction will be less than Rs.1000/- (usually pay for fruits & vegetables). So, do these apps/banks deduct any fees/commission for each transaction?

Also, what if amount is deducted from my acct but not credited to the recipient's acct, how quickly/promptly are they in resolving this? So, I pay cash and leave. Later, the app transaction goes through, after some delay of 15-20-30 mins or 1 hour. So, I have paid twice. How to resolve this? Do I raise an issue with app people or my bank? How do I go about reversing the trxn? Does this happen?

How safe/reliable are these apps?

I know I am late to adopting to this technology and this topic may have been discussed to death on this thread/forum. If there are posts that have the information I am looking for, please let me know. Thanks for the reply!
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Ambar »

la.khan wrote:
Ambar wrote:Sensex on verge of hitting 60000 pts ! I hope someone at SEBI and RBI are watching this carefully because with elections around the corner I wouldn't be too surprised if the market is being purposefully inflated so that they can crash it at the right time. To put things in perspective, sensex is up a whooping 40% above its pre-pandemic high , this when the GDP has contracted.
It is mystifying how Sensex scaled 60K :eek: when the Indian economy & the global economy has suffered so much because of Chinese Wuhan Covid19 virus. It is my personal opinion that Sensex is inflated. Considering the amount of economic pain India is in, Sensex should be between 42-45K :-?
Artificially low interest rates and an unprecedented worldwide infusion of liquidity ( we have 35% more US dollars in circulation today compared to 2019!) is the reason why indexes and housing across the globe are in a bubble territory. Unsurprisingly SEBI and RBI haven't bothered to issue any statements against excessive speculation nor have they bothered to rise the margin requirements. Then again this is the same SEBI which hardly ever takes any actions against fraudulent companies routinely rise capital on the bourses and disappear.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Yagnasri »

@la.khan sir,

I am using only BHIM app. About others I was not comfortable and never tried. BHIM is ok. Will be a bit difficult at the start but if you are doing regular and repeated transactions it should be ok. 40K upper limit per day. One advantage I have seen in BHIM is instant transfer of funds which is not done in any online transfer from one bank to another one. Banks also have their own BHIM linked apps. I never tried that. You can also look into that.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Paul »

Has anyone from the private sector invested in NPS - National Pension System to buy an annuity?

I would be interested in hearing your perspective.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by isubodh »

Paul wrote:Has anyone from the private sector invested in NPS - National Pension System to buy an annuity?

I would be interested in hearing your perspective.
NPS gives instant 30% return as tax saved for Tier 1, based on basic salary.
Further returns for last few years show good 10+% returns.

For annunity, haven't checked. But generally most annuity products are now a days locked at 5-6%.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Yagnasri »

Annuities are quite low return things in Bharat. But recent NPS rule changes permit withdrawal of some money also before you are 60. So that is there. Other than annuities compulsion there is nothing big wrong in that. If you are below 50, it would be good investment.

PS: I have an NPS account.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by arshyam »

la.khan wrote:I was planning to install BHIM app. This is a GoI owned app. May be, the govt will know how much I paid a fruit seller or vegetable seller. I see no reason why my data should go to a US or Chinese company.
Since UPI is a GoI promoted platform, they'll anyway have access to data. Question is, do you want to share the same data to some MNC as well? That's the Q to answer with apps like GPay, Amazon Pay, etc.

But RBI rules prohibit transferring financial data out of India, so it's not like these companies will take it elsewhere. But nothing stops them from legally deploying analytics on their servers operating on data stored within India.
la.khan wrote:I prefer to use either BHIM app and/or PhonePe. Will either of these apps allow me to add multiple accts? Will I be allowed to add savings account (in my own name) and current account (in my firm's name)? For each payment/trxn, do I get to choose from which acct to pay from?
Yes, to all. As long as both these accounts are registered to the same mobile number, you can add them on that mobile device (the app validates your SIM, so you can't add the account on another device).
la.khan wrote:Each of my transaction will be less than Rs.1000/- (usually pay for fruits & vegetables). So, do these apps/banks deduct any fees/commission for each transaction?
As of now, no. That may change down the line.
la.khan wrote:Also, what if amount is deducted from my acct but not credited to the recipient's acct, how quickly/promptly are they in resolving this?
If there is an error in acknowledging the payment by the receiver account, it gets returned pretty fast. I have seen anywhere between a few mins to an hour or two.
la.khan wrote:So, I pay cash and leave. Later, the app transaction goes through, after some delay of 15-20-30 mins or 1 hour. So, I have paid twice. How to resolve this? Do I raise an issue with app people or my bank? How do I go about reversing the trxn? Does this happen?
Reversal within the technical system, i.e. between apps or between banks is automated, so as I described above, the money comes back when encountering issues. However, if the receiver account has received the amount, while you have paid the cash in parallel, you'll need to ask the merchant to return the amount yourself, either via cash or UPI itself. I don't know how much the bank might be able to help in this regard since your transaction was valid. Maybe others with better info can clarify this point.

That said, I haven't encountered issues where the payment takes 2-3 hours to go through after approval. I believe they have a timeout within which the money should either go or come back. Most of the failures I have seen happen within the app itself, for example, the bank's endpoint is down and the app cannot communicate to it.
la.khan wrote:How safe/reliable are these apps?
I have been using Bhim, PhonePay and AxisPay for ~3 years now, no issues so far. That said, I use a dedicated account for these apps, and don't maintain more than, say 10-20k in it. As long as you don't link your regular savings/salary account, you should be fine. Apps like Bhim also restrict the individual and daily transaction limits, so that's another fail-safe. Apps like GPay have higher limits, which I am not comfortable with.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Vips »

RBI launches UPI123Pay that allows UPI payments on feature phones.

Reserve Bank of India (RBI) Governor Shaktikanta Das on Tuesday launched the country’s most famous unified payments interface (UPI) service for feature phones. Termed as UPI123PAY, the service will allow 40 crore feature phone users across India to access the payment service.

So far UPI was available only across all smartphones in India but with the latest move, feature phone users will also be allowed to send and receive payments.

Speaking at the launch, Das said that the UPI recorded 453 crore transactions worth Rs 8.26 lakh crore in February 2022, which is almost double in comparison to a year ago. He said in the financial year 2020-21, the total value of transactions done on UPI was around Rs 41 lakh crore whereas in the current fiscal so far the total volume of transactions is Rs 76 lakh crore and added that the day is not far when the overall volumes will touch Rs 100 lakh crore.

In his speech, Das said that as of now the multifaceted features of UPI are mostly available only on smartphones, which excludes people from the lower rung of the society from an economic perspective, especially in the rural areas, from accessing the popular service, even though the smartphone prices are going down.

The UPI123Pay service is a three-step method to initiate and execute services for users, which will work on phones which do not have an option for internet connection. Presently there are an estimated 40 crore mobile phone users who possess feature phones.

These users will now be able to undertake a host of transactions by 1. calling an IVR (interactive voice response) number, 2. app functionality in feature phones, 3. missed call-based approach and 4. also proximity sound-based payments.

Users will be able to make payments to their friends and family, pay their utility bills, recharge FASTags, pay mobile bills and also check their account balances, the central bank said, adding customers will also be able to link bank accounts, set or change UPI PINs.

The RBI governor also launched a 24×7 helpline for digital payments which will assist callers with their queries on digital payments through their website and chatbot. Users can log on to http://www.digisaathi.info or call on 14431 and 1800 891 3333 from their phones to avail this.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Ambar »

EPFO interest rates slashed from 8.5% to 8.1%, the lowest in 4 decades.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 24051.html
Last fiscal, this interest rate was 8.5%. The last time EPFO paid lower than Fy22 rate was in 1977-78 when the interest rate was 8%. This year's lowering of the rate is likely to disappoint millions of its salaried-class subscribers.

Last fiscal, this interest rate was 8.5%. The last time EPFO paid lower than Fy22 rate was in 1977-78 when the interest rate was 8%. This year's lowering of the rate is likely to disappoint millions of its salaried-class subscribers.
The last time when the EPF rate was closer to the Fy22 rate was in 2011-12 when the retirement fund body paid 8.25 percent rate to its subscribers.

"The interest rate was fixed based on the earnings. It's a difficult year. Other than earnings from debt, we managed to get some corpus from ETF sale before the Ukraine war, which gave us some cushion. The corpus has gone up 13 percent but the interest income is up only 8 percent," said KE Raghunathan, another CBT member.

Raghunathan said the EPFO has a surplus of around Rs 450 crore after paying at a rate of 8.1 percent per year. "It is important to have safety of investments than high return on investment," he said.

Labour minister Bhupendra Yadav said epfo's central board decided the interst rate keeping in mind the "international situation and condition of the equity market". EPFO can not take very risky investments and favours stability, he said.

Employee representatives said they were pressing for more but finally the CBT settled for this amount. I do not remember when the EPFO rate was this low. But it also shows the state of the economy of India, and the difficulty the EPFO faced to earn a sizable corpus to pay more rate," said AK Padmanabhan, another CBT member.

The EPFO invests 85 percent of its annual accruals in debt instruments including government securities and bonds and 15 percent in equity through ETFs. The earnings from both debt and equity are used to calculate the interest payment.

The EPFO has liquidated Rs 12,785 crore worth equity investments in exchange-traded funds (ETFs) and will use capital gains of around 5,529 crore from it for FY22 EPF interest payout.

The interest rate would be officially notified in the government gazette after it gets a go ahead of the finance ministry, following which the pension fund would credit the rate of interest into its subscribers’ accounts.
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Re: Indian Banks & Financial System

Post by Ambar »

More than a month after FM Nirmala Sitharaman's interview where she admitted that low interest rates are hurting savers, retirees and those on fixed incomes, there is no indication if RBI in its April policy meeting will announce pull back of the pandemic support and begin increasing the interest rates.

Meanwhile, WPI rises to 13.1% - https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 196835.cms
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