Mass Rapid Transit in India

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
shaardula
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2591
Joined: 17 Apr 2006 20:02

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby shaardula » 20 Nov 2011 07:59

with respect to mass transit, i'll take network coverage + service frequency to jingchak in stations and bogies any day.

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3622
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Kashi » 20 Nov 2011 19:45

High speed railways connecting major cities that lie in proximity such as Chennai-Bangalore-Hyderabad, Mumbai-Pune, Delhi-one of the nearby capitals, are the need of the hour. But the process is frought with complications and there are serious obstacles around

1. Not sure if Indian Railways has the know how, the ability, the efficiency or the will to implement such a project. Therefore, it must be a private initiative or a public-private venture.

2. High speed railways need their own dedicated corridor, which means the tracks must be fenced, effectively parititioning, villages, towns and communities. While the trains may run on elevated tracks in cities and townships, they'll have to run on surface in the countryside. Given that even our countryside is thickly populated and our national character of "fences are meant to be breached, tjumped over o simply pulled down", can see lot of accidents happening when villagers make their way to the other side instead of employing non-existent civic sense and using the underpasses.

3. Land acquistion- Land mafia in anticipation of such projects have picked up prime land all along the highways and existing railway lines. More Nandigrams and NOIDAs will not be surprising.

4. Our cities have no space for dedicated stations for these HSRs, thus, they'll have to be built on the periphery. Cue the land mafia and the lack of suitable public transport means transport mafia- taxis, autos and others make merry, while the passengers curse their luck.

5. Security issues- one of the USPs of HSRs worldwide is that the passengers can walk into the train without airport style cavity search and 3 hour check pre-flight check in. An impossibility in India considering that commuters for Delhi Metro have to wait in long queues, the security checks for HSRs will have to be more extensive considering the implications of an explosive going off in a train travelling at speeds in excess of 250kmph. This would neutralise one of the prime advantages of HSRs over air travel.

6. Lots of vested interests in airline and passenger bus services. Bangalore-Mysore rail line is still single track, so is the Bangalore-Secinderabad line, at least, significantly due to these vested interests, if not majorly so. Plenty other examples.

7. Paying customers. HSRs won't come cheap, how many folks will be willing to pay for the service. Considering the number of air travel passengers, perhaps this may not be that big a concern, but significant neverhteless.

Rishirishi
BRFite
Posts: 1150
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 02:30

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Rishirishi » 20 Nov 2011 20:19

Theo_Fidel wrote:
Rishirishi wrote:But isint it possible to run the current trains at satabdi speed (150 km).


We can not do this safely with present rakes. Things like braking , weight, energy consumption, suspension, coupling become serious issues at such sustained speeds. At a minimum we need LHB rakes.

Yes the idea is, to upgrade existing track slowly to 150-200 kmph speeds, then turn every thing to 8-12 hour trips in chair cars @ twice density. Even night trains will be by chair car. The sleeper system we have is grossly inefficient and, expensive and wasteful by world standards. Esp. for the rock bottom prices we pay. We will have to give it up at some point.

All a question of paisa.

Just for perspective Panda has spent about $400 Billion on its HSR network. This is roughly, Rs 2,000,000 Crore. Its passenger revenues at ~$10-15 Billion is comparable to IR. Gives you an Idea of the chances that money will be paid back.



Getting a sleeper ticket is always very very difficult on most routs. Would it not be an idea to convert 2/3 og sleeper coaches into chair cars. At the same time convert the rest of them into AC and charge AC prices. The increase in revenue could be used to finance better and faster services.

saip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3658
Joined: 17 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby saip » 20 Nov 2011 20:57

edit: will we need a broader gauge as double decker on current gauges might not be able to high speed curve turns?


I dont think so. India at 5' 6" has the broadest gauge in the world

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16879
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Rahul M » 20 Nov 2011 23:04

erm, yogi sahab, IR has already introduced a double decker passenger.

a look at the interiors.

double containers have been recently inaugurated in western DFC.

Rishirishi
BRFite
Posts: 1150
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 02:30

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Rishirishi » 21 Nov 2011 00:44

Kashi wrote:High speed railways connecting major cities that lie in proximity such as Chennai-Bangalore-Hyderabad, Mumbai-Pune, Delhi-one of the nearby capitals, are the need of the hour. But the process is frought with complications and there are serious obstacles around

1. Not sure if Indian Railways has the know how, the ability, the efficiency or the will to implement such a project. Therefore, it must be a private initiative or a public-private venture.

2. High speed railways need their own dedicated corridor, which means the tracks must be fenced, effectively parititioning, villages, towns and communities. While the trains may run on elevated tracks in cities and townships, they'll have to run on surface in the countryside. Given that even our countryside is thickly populated and our national character of "fences are meant to be breached, tjumped over o simply pulled down", can see lot of accidents happening when villagers make their way to the other side instead of employing non-existent civic sense and using the underpasses.

3. Land acquistion- Land mafia in anticipation of such projects have picked up prime land all along the highways and existing railway lines. More Nandigrams and NOIDAs will not be surprising.

4. Our cities have no space for dedicated stations for these HSRs, thus, they'll have to be built on the periphery. Cue the land mafia and the lack of suitable public transport means transport mafia- taxis, autos and others make merry, while the passengers curse their luck.

5. Security issues- one of the USPs of HSRs worldwide is that the passengers can walk into the train without airport style cavity search and 3 hour check pre-flight check in. An impossibility in India considering that commuters for Delhi Metro have to wait in long queues, the security checks for HSRs will have to be more extensive considering the implications of an explosive going off in a train travelling at speeds in excess of 250kmph. This would neutralise one of the prime advantages of HSRs over air travel.

6. Lots of vested interests in airline and passenger bus services. Bangalore-Mysore rail line is still single track, so is the Bangalore-Secinderabad line, at least, significantly due to these vested interests, if not majorly so. Plenty other examples.

7. Paying customers. HSRs won't come cheap, how many folks will be willing to pay for the service. Considering the number of air travel passengers, perhaps this may not be that big a concern, but significant neverhteless.


I think the greatest hurdle for HSR is the pocket of Indians. 1000 km journey, 150 km speed will take 7 hours. while a super fast state of the art train running at 250 km will still take 4 hours.
The ticket for 7 hours train time would be at the price level of say arround 1000 rupees. The HSR will cost at least 5000 rupees. Not many Indians are willing to pay 4000 rupees just to save 3 hours.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 21 Nov 2011 07:20

Rishi,

I don't think HSR (250 kmph+) prices will EVER become economic. Even Massaland people don't find it economic. Far Far cheaper & even less energy consumed to fly. So why is Panda building 1000 km HSR lines. Who knows. Official stupidity?

What we think (consensus) will work in India is a Mini-HSR. 150 kmph to about 200 kmph. At these speeds existing track can be gradually upgraded over about 20 years at peanuts compared to a full HSR. To do this on India's 20,000 km's of critical trunk lines may cost in the region of 10 crore per km. Most studies have actually put it in the 4-5 Crore range but lets be conservative and include some money for rolling stock as well. So total cost of 200,000 Crore. Or about $ 40 Billion. This is a tiny tiny fraction of the cost of full fledged HSR. Panda has spent $400 Billion to build 10,000 Km of HSR so far. Their full 20,000 Km network is going to cost about $ 1 Trillion. And note we would do it incrementally over 20 years so we only need $ 2 Billion per year. At 200 kmph Chennai-Bangalore is 90 minutes, Chennai-Mumbai is 6 hours, Chennai-Delhi is 10 Hours.This is very doable on our existing routes into the heart of cities. Esp. as minimal land acquisition is necessary.

The super critical precondition is that freight, esp. bulk freight (heavy.slow) be taken off regular lines. Hence the critical nature of getting the freight corridors going. Inaction causes me quite some frustration. IMO this is the single most important project in India and it languishes on the sidelines.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... llet-train

Officials said setting up a bullet train network was turning out to be a costly affair. A bullet train would cost about Rs 50-65 crore per km, while upgrading the existing network would be at just Rs 5 crore per km. Laying the present type of track costs around Rs 1.5 crore per km.


And the private sector will never be able to make this work. We have to do it as a social benefit to the nation.

Note that even Panda is now slowly lowering its speeds for cost reasons. I'm very certain their HSR will in a few years will turn into a 200 kmph semi-HSR. That is the quality they have built it too, as I have noted before. Construction techniques, quality and build tolerances are abysmal.

Yogi_G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2400
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 04:10
Location: Punya Bhoomi -- Jambu Dweepam

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Yogi_G » 21 Nov 2011 08:06

Rahul M wrote:erm, yogi sahab, IR has already introduced a double decker passenger.

double containers have been recently inaugurated in western DFC.


Thanks, dint know that. I was always under the opinion that double decker coaches in India would be impossible due to the fixed height of the electrical power lines overhead. This one seems to be a diesel locomotive.

saip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3658
Joined: 17 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby saip » 21 Nov 2011 08:13

It is Electric. See at .09 in the first video.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16879
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Rahul M » 21 Nov 2011 08:30

Yogi_G wrote:
Rahul M wrote:erm, yogi sahab, IR has already introduced a double decker passenger.

double containers have been recently inaugurated in western DFC.


Thanks, dint know that. I was always under the opinion that double decker coaches in India would be impossible due to the fixed height of the electrical power lines overhead. This one seems to be a diesel locomotive.

at least two non-AC DD pulled by electric locos have been in operation since donkeys years, the flying rani and the black diamond express. the kolkata dhanbad DD runs on the same route as the black diamond, it might be the new black diamond for all I know.
flying rani :

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3622
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Kashi » 21 Nov 2011 19:33

Theo_Fidel wrote:Rishi,

I don't think HSR (250 kmph+) prices will EVER become economic. Even Massaland people don't find it economic. Far Far cheaper & even less energy consumed to fly. So why is Panda building 1000 km HSR lines. Who knows. Official stupidity?


Not sure if Massaland is the best example to cite in this instance. That country has never taken to trains and never will. HSRs are pretty popular in Europe and Japan and the Tokaido Shin-kansen that covers the distance between Osaka and Tokyo in 2 and a half hours with less than 10 minute intervals between trains, has a pretty high occupancy even when tickets are priced at 14,000 Yen one way.

chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby chaanakya » 21 Nov 2011 21:27

Rahul wrote: at least two non-AC DD pulled by electric locos have been in operation since donkeys years, the flying rani and the black diamond express. the kolkata dhanbad DD runs on the same route as the black diamond, it might be the new black diamond for all I know.


I can add Pushpak Express running between Lucknow and Mumbai which had Double Decker rake both AC and non AC seating/Sleepar classes way back in 1982-83. I had traveled by that train from manmad to Mumbai CST.

Rishirishi
BRFite
Posts: 1150
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 02:30

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Rishirishi » 21 Nov 2011 23:19

Kashi wrote:
Theo_Fidel wrote:Rishi,

I don't think HSR (250 kmph+) prices will EVER become economic. Even Massaland people don't find it economic. Far Far cheaper & even less energy consumed to fly. So why is Panda building 1000 km HSR lines. Who knows. Official stupidity?


Not sure if Massaland is the best example to cite in this instance. That country has never taken to trains and never will. HSRs are pretty popular in Europe and Japan and the Tokaido Shin-kansen that covers the distance between Osaka and Tokyo in 2 and a half hours with less than 10 minute intervals between trains, has a pretty high occupancy even when tickets are priced at 14,000 Yen one way.



I have taken the HSR in China and can report that they run full. Payed about 300 rmb (approx rs 2000) for a 350 km journey. But I strongly doubt that they are returning the entire cost. But you cant always look at it from a cost perspective. Look at Delhi Metro. I do not think it is breaking even, but still it is worth it.

I Europe, people are happy to pay an extra Rs 5000 to cut journey time from 4hours to 2 hours.

Having said that, there is no point in having a HSR in Mumbai, if you are going to waste 2 hours in the traffic to reach to your destination. Better to invest in Mumbai infrastructure (metro, road etc).

Problem are freight trains, which run very slow. They should either run faster, or there should be made waiting bays so that passenger trains can bypass them. What about the possibility to use the opposite track to bypass the freight trains?? should be possible with modern control systems.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16879
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Rahul M » 21 Nov 2011 23:21

>> Look at Delhi Metro. I do not think it is breaking even,

last I heard it is, but only after land development is taken into account.

Pranav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5280
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 13:23

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Pranav » 22 Nov 2011 07:27

Theo_Fidel wrote:Rishi,

I don't think HSR (250 kmph+) prices will EVER become economic. Even Massaland people don't find it economic. Far Far cheaper & even less energy consumed to fly. So why is Panda building 1000 km HSR lines. Who knows. Official stupidity?


+1

Air travel is the optimal mode for long distances (1000 km +). Anything less than 1000 km can be done with medium speed rail (say 160 kmph average speed).

I'm sure that air travel can be made a lot cheaper and faster - what is needed is
(1) More runways
(2) Efficient terminal buildings with lots of capacity and rapid baggage handling
(3) Good metro rail connections between city centers, airports, bus and rail terminuses.
(4) Development of India-specific high capacity medium range jets (say 600 passengers and 3000 km range).

I think the government needs to take a coordinating role in creating such a air network, can't leave it to private operators.

It has to be a lot cheaper too. For example suppose you had a 600 seater jet making 4 round trips daily between Delhi and Bangalore, I'm sure it could break even at a pretty low price point, provided airport charges are not exorbitant.

Another issue is how to cover the last mile. I think a good approach is to have a city-wide bicycle rental system. You should have bike rental points in every neighbourhood, particularly at metro and Bus-Rapid-Transit stops, shopping centers, office complexes etc. Should be able to pick up a bike at any of these points and drop off at any other point. Create bike lanes everywhere. Could issue smart cards to make things smoother. Have a fairly low hourly rate (say 1 rupee per hour?)

Pranav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5280
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 13:23

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Pranav » 22 Nov 2011 08:53

^^^ Another point is that after the freight corridors are established along all major routes, Railways should work together with consolidators accepting shipments from the public and booking a container at a time. Ultimately one should be able to send a shipment from point A to point B in 24 hours. Should also have refrigerated containers for agricultural produce. The number of trucks on the highways will reduce drastically, cutting the fuel import bill, making driving easier for passenger cars etc.
Last edited by Pranav on 22 Nov 2011 09:03, edited 1 time in total.

Pranav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5280
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 13:23

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Pranav » 22 Nov 2011 08:58

Pranav wrote:It has to be a lot cheaper too. For example suppose you had a 600 seater jet making 4 round trips daily between Delhi and Bangalore, I'm sure it could break even at a pretty low price point, provided airport charges are not exorbitant.


A quick calculation shows that if you have the same airfares as railway class 3A, and are able to fill up the seats, you would have a revenue of about Rs 72 lakhs per day for this 1 plane.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 22 Nov 2011 11:20

Rishirishi wrote:Problem are freight trains, which run very slow. They should either run faster, or there should be made waiting bays so that passenger trains can bypass them. What about the possibility to use the opposite track to bypass the freight trains?? should be possible with modern control systems.


Rishi,

The problem with freight is not the speeds in it self. Even though that too is a problem.

The real problem is what it does to the track & Infrastructure. A major reason for poor ride quality in IR is the damaging effect of freight wagons on the tracks. Heavy freight
- damages the rails causing dips and wheel spin divots.
- Causes shifting of track
- damages the joints
- damages bridges & embankments
- causes straightening of curves and banking.

There simply no way to run safely at 150 kmph+ with freight on the same track.

abhisheka
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 18
Joined: 10 Sep 2011 22:32

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby abhisheka » 22 Nov 2011 13:31

Theo_Fidel wrote:
Rishirishi wrote:But isint it possible to run the current trains at satabdi speed (150 km).


We can not do this safely with present rakes. Things like braking , weight, energy consumption, suspension, coupling become serious issues at such sustained speeds. At a minimum we need LHB rakes.

Yes the idea is, to upgrade existing track slowly to 150-200 kmph speeds, then turn every thing to 8-12 hour trips in chair cars @ twice density. Even night trains will be by chair car. The sleeper system we have is grossly inefficient and, expensive and wasteful by world standards. Esp. for the rock bottom prices we pay. We will have to give it up at some point.

All a question of paisa.

Just for perspective Panda has spent about $400 Billion on its HSR network. This is roughly, Rs 2,000,000 Crore. Its passenger revenues at ~$10-15 Billion is comparable to IR. Gives you an Idea of the chances that money will be paid back.


Agree almost entirely with this post.
Beyond 150 km/h law of diminishing returns take over and far too much energy must be expended to overcome drag for very little increase in speeds. Also, the longer braking distances for high speed trains mean that track utilization is reduced.
Just to be clear, the trick is to average 150km/h for 8-12 hours for each and every passenger train.
150 km/h average has to be the guaranteed quality of service and the cheapest and most practical way to achieve it is to run at that speed almost the entire journey.
The primary obstacles to running 150 km/h avg. long distance IMHO, are the scheduling issues and the primitive control systems.

Rishirishi
BRFite
Posts: 1150
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 02:30

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Rishirishi » 23 Nov 2011 04:57

I am just wondering. Would it not be possible to build track exchange every 4 km or something like that. Then the fast trains could bypass the slower moving freight trains. You simply just use the opposite track to bypass. Of course one would have to have a good train control system. It should be possible.

Pranav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5280
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 13:23

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Pranav » 23 Nov 2011 08:07

Rishirishi wrote:I am just wondering. Would it not be possible to build track exchange every 4 km or something like that. Then the fast trains could bypass the slower moving freight trains. You simply just use the opposite track to bypass. Of course one would have to have a good train control system. It should be possible.


Allowing freight to use the same tracks will make it hard to maintain the high track quality required for passenger trains moving at say 180 kmph top speed.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23779
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby SSridhar » 27 Nov 2011 10:57

List of monorail operators for Chennai, next week
The list of global consortiums in the fray and eligible to participate in the bidding process for developing the city's monorail network will be announced next week.

Speaking on the sidelines of a review of monorail and metro rail projects undertaken by Chief Minister Jayalalithaa here on Saturday, a senior official of the State government said that three consortiums are likely to be shortlisted.

Technical criteria

The criteria fixed for demonstrating technical capacity to qualify for the project were – the consortium should have been awarded an urban rail project on DBFOT (Design, Build, Finance, Operate and Transfer) basis with a minimum route length of 37 km within the last three fiscal and a shareholder net worth of Rs.500 crore.

The official said that since “experience in an urban rail project is sufficient,” the consortiums need not be necessarily operating an existing monorail system.

Financial bidding

The ‘qualified' applicants would enter a round of financial bidding.

A two month period would be given to prepare a Detailed Project Report on the implementation of a monorail system along four elevated corridors, totalling 111-km, which has already been identified by the government.

The entity that quotes the lowest user fare structure and expects the least amount of concessions from the State government is expected to be nominated as the ‘monorail operator'.

The Request For Quotation (RFQ) floated by the Metropolitan Transport Corporation, which is the nodal agency for the implementation of the Chennai Monorail project, says that a comparatively short time span would be provided for submission of the bids.

Monorail cell

A monorail cell has also started functioning from within the MTC's headquarters on Anna Salai.

The monorail system is proposed to constitute a network of four elevated corridors – Vandalur to Puzhal via Avadi (54 km); Vandalur to Velachery via Tambaram East (23 km); Poonamallee to Kathipara via Porur (18 km); and Poonamallee to Vadapalani via Valasarawakkam (16 km).

Vasu
BRFite
Posts: 868
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Vasu » 30 Nov 2011 11:00

Jaipur: DMRC gets Metro phase II; PPP mode for parking slots

The Delhi Metro Rail Corporation (DMRC) will be constructing the phase II of Jaipur Metro from Chandpole to Badi Chaupar. The decision was taken at the Metro project review meeting on Friday at Jaipur Metro Rail Corporation (JMRC) headquarters.

Shanti Dhariwal, urban development and housing (UDH) minister, told the media, "As DMRC is already constructing metro phase I (Mansarovar to Chandpole), we have decided to give the second phase of construction to them. The proposal will be forwarded to the state cabinet for approval."


The DMRC will do the underground construction connecting the Metro from Chandpole to Badi Chaupar.

The state government has sent a proposal of around Rs 1,010 crore to the Centre for assistance.

The estimated cost to complete Phase -1 project is around Rs 2,020 crore and the plea for the 50% assistance has been made to the Centre.

The minister was also briefed that Jaipur Development Authority and RIICO have given their share for the Jaipur metro project on time.

However, Rajasthan Housing Board (RHB) is yet to give money for its share.


Jaipur Metro parks its woes in pvt land

Jaipur Metro Rail Corporation (JMCR) has come up with a unique concept to discover abundant parking space for metro ridership. The corporation is mulling to allow residents to develop their housing units into parking lots on metro track. Jaipur will be the first city of the nation if the concept turns into a policy.

To allure interested residents the relaxation will be given in land change use and floor area ration (FAR) too. The metro officials said that Jaipur will be the first city if the concept is approved.


Jaipur Metro project running on the right track

Good progress update on the link above.

Vasu
BRFite
Posts: 868
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Vasu » 30 Nov 2011 11:08

Sreedharan visits Gurgaon Rapid Metro site, gives tips for improvement

On his first such visit, Sreedharan travelled through the entire 6.1 km stretch — starting from Sikanderpur, where the Rapid Metro station would be connected with the DMRC station through a foot overbridge.

Various safety issues were discussed, and Sreedharan also suggested that a central agency, such as the CISF, be given charge of security at the stations. Besides posing queries on training of Rapid Metro employees, Sreedharan also asked the officials to explain various nitty-gritties of construction work.

A technical presentation was made by various technical heads of the Rapid Metro at the site office in Sikanderpur, dealing with topics such as quality of the project, execution, electrical arrangements, etc. Sreedharan said that twin ticketing will not only add to ridership figures, but also ensure a hassle-free journey for commuters.

The length of the Rapid Metro route, which currently stands at 6.1 km, will have six stations: Sikanderpur, DLF-2, Belvedere Park, Gateway Tower, Mall of India and DLF-3. The project has been taken up at a cost of Rs 1,100 crore.

The Rapid Metro will benefit from natural lighting, less air and sound pollution, proper exhaust facilities, silent generators, dust catchers and water treatment plants.


Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16879
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Rahul M » 01 Dec 2011 21:34

Image

you can see the state govt admin buildings of the sarkari district of salt lake in the pic.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 03 Dec 2011 08:36

Meanwhile...

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 679686.ece

The State government on Thursday took a decision to refloat the tender for the construction of a 111-km-long monorail network in the city. Citing limited number of participants, which might jeopardise the competitive nature of the financial bidding, the government resorted to restarting the process from scratch, a senior government official said. Though over 10 entities attended the pre-bid meeting, only three – L&T-Hitachi and firms from Malaysia and the United Kingdom – cleared the technical criteria set by the government.


Image

:roll: :roll: :| :cry:

Vasu
BRFite
Posts: 868
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Vasu » 03 Dec 2011 13:21

The bidders probably didn't want to cough up the amounts demanded. :evil:

With Tamil Nadu Government fast on its way to bankruptcy, hope they will be able to pay up for all the super duper infra.

Marut
BRFite
Posts: 623
Joined: 25 Oct 2009 23:05
Location: The Original West Coast!!

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Marut » 06 Dec 2011 15:33

Painfully coming to terms with the country's first monorail going on the bataan death march :(

How it could've been a trendsetter and where it's gonna end up now due to nincompoops and numbnuts running riot with their flights of fancy on how things should be done, ignoring reality and sound engineering principles :roll: :(( :cry:

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7307
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby nachiket » 07 Dec 2011 00:21

Marut wrote:Painfully coming to terms with the country's first monorail going on the bataan death march :(


The first monorail project is in Mumbai and it is very much on track.

Marut
BRFite
Posts: 623
Joined: 25 Oct 2009 23:05
Location: The Original West Coast!!

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Marut » 11 Dec 2011 12:35

nachiket, I know monorail and metro projects better than a lot of people on this forum ;)

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23779
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby SSridhar » 11 Dec 2011 20:02

2 Tunnel Boring Machines to start work on Jan 15 for Chennai Metro
Image
Courtesy: Business Line
9 Huge Chinese-made tunnel boring machines will soon be in action in Chennai for the Metro Rail project. Two machines are expected to arrive in the city in a couple of weeks. They are likely to be launched from January 15 at Washermenpet and Shenoy Nagar where two underground stations are coming up as part of the project, according to a source in the know.

Eleven machines will be used to excavate the underground sections. Of this, eight machines are being supplied by the German company Herrenknecht, which has already transported two machines from its plant in China.

krishnan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7342
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Location: 13° 04' N , 80° 17' E

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby krishnan » 11 Dec 2011 20:34

Hmmmm, why chinese ? probably got them cheap i guess

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36402
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby SaiK » 12 Dec 2011 07:35

cause chennai and china kinda starts with 'ch'? :lol: .

why this - after the kolkattans, chennaites love china di. :twisted:

krishnan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7342
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Location: 13° 04' N , 80° 17' E

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby krishnan » 12 Dec 2011 07:57

cant L&T make one? or any other in india

Marut
BRFite
Posts: 623
Joined: 25 Oct 2009 23:05
Location: The Original West Coast!!

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Marut » 12 Dec 2011 18:01

Those TBMs are German ones made in China.

TBMs are specific for a project. They need to be configured according to the tunnel size and soil/geologic conditions to be encountered in the drilling.

L&T and co can make it here but the reliability and safety of such equipment will put a question mark on the progress of the project and subsequently its viability itself. For eg. with a German/Swiss/Nordic TBM which are in operation for decades you can confidently assume a certain progress rate and the only risk is the soil/geology underneath. With desi ones, the TBM itself will add an element of risk since it will be amongst the first of its kind and hence affect your schedule and thus economic viability which is very critical in these PPP projects.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36402
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby SaiK » 13 Dec 2011 00:06

sure, why not the German ones Made in India then? so that we don't have to read the china tag? ;)

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7307
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby nachiket » 13 Dec 2011 00:08

Marut wrote:nachiket, I know monorail and metro projects better than a lot of people on this forum ;)

So you were talking about the Mumbai project? :(

Marut
BRFite
Posts: 623
Joined: 25 Oct 2009 23:05
Location: The Original West Coast!!

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Marut » 13 Dec 2011 13:24

yep :(

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23779
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby SSridhar » 18 Dec 2011 17:38

TBMs arrive for Chennai Metro
Two Tunnel Boring Machines (TBMs) that would be used to build the underground section of Metro Rail have arrived from China. The process of transporting the machines, which were shipped to the Chennai port as five to six separate segments, to the launch sites has commenced.

In due course, nine more machines would arrive in the city and all 11 TBMs would be deployed simultaneously to build the 24-km underground section of the Metro Rail network over the next three years.

To minimise the impact on traffic, the components are being transported at night. Shenoy Nagar Park, which is one of the five TBM launch sites, received its first consignment on Friday.

Chennai Metro Rail Limited Managing Director K. Rajaraman said work on building the launch shafts (through which the TBM would be eased to a depth of nine metre beneath the ground) is on in many locations. “Apart from Shenoy Nagar and Washermenpet, such shafts would be built in May Day Park in Chintadripet, Nehru Park in Poonamallee High Road and Saidapet. The component assembling and operational trial of the TBMs would go on simultaneously,” he said.

Full-fledged underground tunnelling is expected to begin around mid-February, he added.

30-storey tall

Each TBM weighs around 140 tonnes. The entire assembly stretches to a length of nearly 90 metre. When placed vertically, it would be as tall as a 30-storey building.

TBMs are specially designed machinery used to build tunnels with a circular cross-section. They are deployed especially in urban settings where ground excavations can lead to large-scale disruptions.

Each TBM has one or two large metal cylinders (shields) mounted on a trailing support mechanism. The front of the shield has a rotating cutting wheel, which will do the tunnelling.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23779
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby SSridhar » 20 Dec 2011 09:12

Chennai Metro tunnelling will throw up debris & challenges
Large-scale diversions, such as the one that came into effect in Anna Nagar, would be in place in at least 19 other locations. Sanjay Arora, Additional Commissioner of Police – Traffic (in-charge) says: “We are preparing for a long-haul scenario. Each location where an underground station is set to come up will be blocked for more than a year after the area-specific diversion plan kicks in.”

Elaborate measures would be put in place for collection, transfer and disposal of an estimated 1.85 million metric cube of excavated soil. Nearly four lakh truck trips would be required in a span of 4-5 years, which translates to 218 trips per day. “We have been allotted several abandoned stone quarries beyond Tambaram,” Mr.Rajaraman says.

At its peak, the Metro Rail tunnelling operation would churn out enough debris to rival the amount of solid waste generated by the city.

Apart from logistical issues, there are also a number of concerns regarding the proposed permanent changes to entry/exit arrangements at major mass-transit systems near underground Metro stations. For example, station floor plans reveal that the Central Metro Station, which would be the largest in the city, would alter approaches to at least four modes of transport – Central railway station, Park MRTS station, Moore Market suburban station and public transit buses.

Experts say that many of these approaches have not been well thought out.


Return to “Technology & Economic Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests