Mass Rapid Transit in India

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 21 Sep 2015 23:10

by Kashi
Thanks for the clarification. That exemption is dumb. I recall the HC judge who turned it down initially remarked something on the lines of "death will not check for the religious and other affiliations of the pillion rider, when it comes calling" (maut kisi ka dharm poochh kar nahin aati).

Yet political compulsions dictated this climbdown.

It is because Sikh men wear turbans while majority of Sikh women do not. Law should not have any religious connotations., rather it should be

"Any men/women wearing a Turban is exempt from wearing a Helmet" i.e implying that Turbans could act as a Helmet.

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 23 Sep 2015 19:14

PM Modi will lay the foundation stone for 2 new lines in Mumbai on Oct 4:

Line 2: Dahisar – DN Nagar (a part of the larger Dahisar-Bandra-Mankhurd line)
• Cost: Rs 4,994 crore
• Distance: 18.6 km

Line 5: Dahisar East – Andheri East (a part of the larger Dahisar East – Andheri East – Bandra East line)
• Cost: Rs 4,737 crore
• Distance: 16.5 km

Map & Info at The Metro Rail Guy

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 25 Sep 2015 07:39

Ahmedabad's Metro is now taking shape! A 6 km stretch between Vastral Gam and Apparel Park is under construction.

More images and info at The Metro Rail Guy

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Sep 2015 11:04

well well well change.org petition flying around to build bengaluru metro on ORR in phase2 itself (ie FOC in 10 years!) vs phase4 (FOC in 2115)

https://www.change.org/p/narendra-modi- ... in-phase-2

Quote:
The government needs to act now and construct metro on the median of ORR

in phase 2 itself, failing which, the traffic conditions will reach a point of no return in 1-2 years time. However, currently, there's no proposal to construct the metro on ORR in phase 2.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 25 Sep 2015 15:44

As I recall there is plenty of space on the service roads of ORR to put pillars if median space is not available anymore due to all the flyovers built since ORR opened more than a decade ago. With million dollar homes and their pools and clubhouses having exotic views

of poorly designed 3-4 storey structures, no one should mind if a metro viaduct even passes overhead.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 25 Sep 2015 15:48

Rohit_K can you confirm if the Ahmedabad one is BG, as was the news earlier? If so, kudos to Gujarat, for showing the finger towards the ridiculous choice of SG.

srin · Post by **srin** » 25 Sep 2015 17:42

Singha wrote:well well well change.org petition flying around to build bengaluru metro on ORR in phase2 itself (ie FOC in 10 years!) vs phase4 (FOC in 2115)

https://www.change.org/p/narendra-modi- ... in-phase-2

Quote:
The government needs to act now and construct metro on the median of ORR in phase 2 itself, failing which, the traffic conditions will reach a point of no return in 1-2 years time. However, currently, there's no proposal to construct the metro on ORR in phase 2.

And for the five years while the construction is going on, nobody will be able to use the ORR

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Sep 2015 17:47

>> As I recall there is plenty of space on the service roads of ORR to put pillars

where ? the service roads are 5X smaller than needed to use the tech parks properly already.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Sep 2015 17:47

any ORR metro will need to be entirely underground no ifs and buts. a properly planned effort would have tunnels with moving walkways linking them directly into the big tech parks from the stations below the main ORR bus stops. this would keep people off the roads and help in bad weather.

think how the metro under downtown Toronto is organized. people can move miles in there without facing the bitter winter.

nearer home, orchard road in singapore also links into tunnels below the main buildings.

nash · Post by **nash** » 25 Sep 2015 18:19

Nagpur Metro seems like on track:

http://www.nagpurtoday.in/metro-rail-wo ... s/09251500

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... metro-rail

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 25 Sep 2015 19:22

Well, either the techparks allow viaducts through their verdant gardens

or pay up for an underground system through their campuses. Choice is theirs, or move to tier-2 cities where metro systems are being put in place before the mad rush for IT parks etc clogs the place.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 25 Sep 2015 19:40

A cursory look in google maps near ORR reveals lots of open space. If they can build metro viaduct in the narrow bylanes of Kochi, it can surely be done for B'lur.

Check out the pics linked to google maps near ORR and you will see plenty of space to carve out less than 10m wide space for construction. The service roads are almost as wide as the ORR lanes in each direction.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 25 Sep 2015 22:38

Since I was twiddling my thinbs over lunch BBQ, I decided to take a stab at fitting in an 3 lane expressway w/ intersection into the ORR. I chose a particularly tight intersection off the South West corner. Please note that this is not a traffic engineers design so I defer to the professionals.

- Will have to give up daytime vehicular access to frontage.
- fully access controlled, 2 level structure.
- Rated for 120 kmph with 100’ width.
- 11’ lanes, can reduce to 10’ at lowered speeds 80kmph
- 4’ center median for metro pillars. This is tight.
- will be expensive

It is tight but can be done. The stations will be a real challenge. Underground would be better but over ground is feasible. Chennai metro is running along 100’ road after all.

larger image link below

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5791/217 ... 7b53_c.jpg

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 26 Sep 2015 02:19

hnair wrote:Rohit_K can you confirm if the Ahmedabad one is BG, as was the news earlier? If so, kudos to Gujarat, for showing the finger towards the ridiculous choice of SG.

It'll run on SG tracks.

Link to the 3rd Rail design's tender notification - please do a CTRL+F and look for 'standard'

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 26 Sep 2015 04:52

That segment of ORR (south-east quadrant) is ~20 km in length or so, it can be built in 2 yrs straight for Rs 5000 crores only if built over-ground. It is not dense enough to justify going underground. The urban blight is already there in that part, so no loss either from an aesthetic point of view.

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 26 Sep 2015 07:10

And now Vijayawada will get a metro system. The DMRC has invited tenders less than 3 weeks after being appointed as the consultant

Map from The Metro Rail Guy:

Line 1 in blue and Line 2 in red

DMRC has invited tenders for 2 sections of Line 2:
1) Nidamanuru to Gunadala
2) City Cancer Hospital to Railway Station east

More info and larger map on The Metro Rail Guy

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 26 Sep 2015 08:39

Bade wrote:Well, either the techparks allow viaducts through their verdant gardens or pay up for an underground system through their campuses. Choice is theirs, or move to tier-2 cities where metro systems are being put in place before the mad rush for IT parks etc clogs the place.

I dont know which tier2 city is that utopian place for a strategic decision maker in, say a large-employer MNC to embrace warmly? Most of the tier2 emerging ones (except maybe the CBN govt's efforts) are run by low-IQ IT departments headed by the lackadaisical ministers and the metro alignment hardly connects to job centers, thanks to IT departments not providing early inputs to the consultants. The big firms' choice is clear, they are going to stick to Bangalore, because everything from economies of scale for office spaces to attracting India-wide talent to a govt that does take decisions faster for corporates (not necessarily for public) exists in Bangalore. Their employees will whinge a bit about traffic, but once they get into a shell, Bangalore works pretty well for them. The MNC's admin people hire consultants, who more or less advise thus. Even Chennai and Hyderabad are not challenging Bangalore at this point on something as basic as price point for a warm-shell space nor on turnover/jobs getting created per year. There was a window between 2008-2012 for challenging Bangalore's position. That window has closed. Bangalore's recent IT Secretaries have been outstanding babus, who can go shoulder to shoulder with anyone around the globe. They are a pleasure to deal with, compared to the loutish one officiating here in Trivandrum.

Note - I am not using "lout" lightly, chap gave a lecture to me about "President Obama's faulty economic policy", when we went to meet him about approvals for a utility structure. He finally did not take a decision and kicked it upto the minister

Sad thing is people who are two levels below him can actually approve it as per law, but wont.

Bade wrote:That segment of ORR (south-east quadrant) is ~20 km in length or so, it can be built in 2 yrs straight for Rs 5000 crores only if built over-ground. It is not dense enough to justify going underground. The urban blight is already there in that part, so no loss either from an aesthetic point of view.

not as per Singha and negi wrote, nor as per my explorations along ORR two weeks ago. The area has probably one of the densest commuter base in India and is still growing. Underground is a great option, thanks to some really largish flyovers at frequent intervals.

Vriksh · Post by **Vriksh** » 26 Sep 2015 11:27

I have been working on an concept idea for a metro track system that (IMO) will be superior to what is being installed globally. It has the following features

1) Gaugeless
2) Automatically Provides covered/airconditioned walking / cycling space / emergency getaway
3) Allows Personal vehicles to use the track
4) Cheaper to install (design automatically translates to longer spans than current systems)
5) Faster mobility (no chance of derailment
6) Possibility of Point to point connectivity
7) Allows multiple avenues of simple expansion of trackway load (both freight weight and passenger) carrying capacity without need for additional land acquisition

I wonder how I could go about commercializing it. Should I patent the system before revealing it publically for commercialization. Anyone with ideas?

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 26 Sep 2015 17:34

Hnair, my point was not about commuter density along ORR stretch, but about structural density as in open space anywhere close to ORR not being available that an underground needs to be built. If people want to have metro today, then the fastest option is to build over ground. As Jaipur and Kochi can attest to. Putting civil infra is not a bottleneck anymore. People have Kolkata experience in mind when they ask for underground everywhere. There are parts of Blore where going underground was necessary due to heritage structures and not to have a concrete monstrosity hanging high. But for ORR, it already looks like a concrete jungle adding a metro viaduct high up might even add to the beauty.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 26 Sep 2015 17:46

What about movement to tier-2 places within KA itself, forget other states. If the IT secy has a vision, isn't that what they should do. Mysore, Mangalore would be high up in the waiting list.

Why is Mangalore not on the metro list when Vijayawada is ?

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 26 Sep 2015 18:10

Bade, if you want to give your POV to the IT Secretary of a state with the most successful IT sector, about their faulty vision in aiming for a global scale critical-mass@Bangalore, please do fix an appointment and get it done. This is going OT on Metro thread and let us not do that. Enough of this line. Back to metro

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 26 Sep 2015 18:38

Mangalore is in Karnataka and Vijayawada is in AP so Bade ji could fix appointment with two IT secy who is not at all concerned with Metro except projecting requirement if there is some IT sector. Requirements are prioritised within each state and availability of funding, feasibility report, easy availability of land or alternate options, expertise available , projected rate of returns,IRR, internal accrual, projected cash flow, break-even period and willingness of the funding agency to fund the project. Even doing existing and projected traffic study takes time which is a pre condition to make it to the list of probable metros.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Sep 2015 19:24

The frequent flyovers in orr with tiny service roads in between and on sides make even laying a high tech narrow footprint silk board expway type overground metro impossible unless a 20m wide belt is demolished on one side. Not going to happen as 1000s of bldgs will get broken.

There is no point discussing overground. The median where there is no flyovet is 1 meter wide

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 26 Sep 2015 19:50

Overground is the quicker solution when small land parcels are still available close enough to ORR, hence has merit. If enough money is poured in and time to wait exists then sure there are other solutions. I am still not convinced there is no space to build overground in that stretch now. It will be the case in another decade or so, with the rapid growth.

The google earth does not give me high resolution to see other possible alignments if one does not need to stick to a strict ORR alignment. One could weave in and out as the terrain (taller building clusters) dictates.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Sep 2015 20:43

I had suggested once direct to BMP (BCC then) walas when they were constructing ORR in bengaluru.. the median must be bigger like occupying one full lane with a shoulder to accommodate either trees or emergency lane. This was 30 years ago!

The engineers then were like - are you willing to bribe for your designs? how big chorporates you own? etc. I say, it is not even late now to think ahead for the next ring road designs, connectivity lanes, bypass roads to have dedicated center 2 lanes as median for future expansions.

This will not happen without standardizations for the future

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 26 Sep 2015 22:07

Vriksh wrote:I have been working on an concept idea for a metro track system that (IMO) will be superior to what is being installed globally. It has the following features

1) Gaugeless
2) Automatically Provides covered/airconditioned walking / cycling space / emergency getaway
3) Allows Personal vehicles to use the track
4) Cheaper to install (design automatically translates to longer spans than current systems)
5) Faster mobility (no chance of derailment
6) Possibility of Point to point connectivity
7) Allows multiple avenues of simple expansion of trackway load (both freight weight and passenger) carrying capacity without need for additional land acquisition

I wonder how I could go about commercializing it. Should I patent the system before revealing it publically for commercialization. Anyone with ideas?

Vriksh Saar,

I think if you need funding then best would be to patent it. Otherwise, you would need some private company or government organisation to buy your idea who will then patent it anyway.

In case selling to Indian Govt, try mailing directly to PM Modi or even the Railway Minister, Shri Suresh Prabhu.

You are shortly organising the IIT Mumbai GBF, hopefully some ideas from there.

Maybe a concept presentation (flash, pdf, powerpoint) without sensitive details maybe posted here for better discussions.

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 26 Sep 2015 22:16

Since B'lore is being discussed, there has been a recent minor change in Phase 2:

Bangalore Metro Removes Narayanapura/Jyothipuram Station & Repositions Krishnarajapuram Station in Phase 2

This will bring the Krishnarajapuram station closer to the railway station.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 26 Sep 2015 22:48

One sad little tidbit of info about overcrowding on delhi metro.. ...Ridership is already close to double what Phase 3 was supposed to carry!

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 891716.cms

Today, the Metro's ridership has outstripped all government estimates: the Phase II was supposed to ferry 15 lakh passengers daily; on August 28, 31.75 lakh commuters travelled on the Metro, and the average ridership now is 26 lakh per day. This is expected to reach 40 lakh when Phase III becomes operational even though the detailed project report had forecast a ridership of 18.5 lakh.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 26 Sep 2015 22:51

On SSC, I asked about these numbers on the Delhi Metro thread. In summary, those who track this topic closely responded that the quoted figures in the press are wrong. The actual traffic is being compared to the incremental - and not total - traffic that was projected. The estimated totals are still less than real world traffic, but not half of the current daily traffic.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 26 Sep 2015 22:58

Thnax for that Suraj.

Do you know what the accurate numbers are...

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 26 Sep 2015 23:06

You'll have to check the last few pages of the Delhi Metro thread on SSC. It's a pretty fast moving thread.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 27 Sep 2015 02:49

Theo: That is interesting. Is 8' wide pedestrians path that common? In the US I have not seen anything that wide. Of course, for India that might be require as the pedestrian traffic is an order magnitude larger.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Sep 2015 08:52

I had once said, if US has 6+6 lanes then India should have 12+12 lanes where it is needed. mass rapid transit at nodal areas can be designed using sat | airborne data collection techniques to validate traffic and conclude on these assumptions. It is easy to count heads! larger areas needs multiple and larger road sections. traffic distribution studies must be done.

even a dji phantom with gopro camera will do the works

Vriksh · Post by **Vriksh** » 27 Sep 2015 18:43

@Suraj and others the numbers for metros are not in a single location. it would be interesting to collate following information for metro systems in India and comparatives with other systems in other locations. Any resource available that collates this data for Delhi, Mumbai and other systems

CAPEX: Right of way Civil Works, Fixed Mechanicals (rails, Trainset, Electricals, breakups if possible)
Land acquisition requirement / KM
Length of Track in KM
Number of stations
Design throughput (peak and total) trips/day
Ridership in a) trips/day b) passenger*km/day
OPEX: Operating costs per day
Average Operating velocities (kmph)
Headway times

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 27 Sep 2015 23:02

Why don't you - or someone else with the passion to do so - do that work yourself ? We need a number of people who become domain experts and can be producers of meaningful data analysis rather than consumers .

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 27 Sep 2015 23:28

Agra Metro: Agra likely to get 2 Metro routes

Agra: The local administration has given its approval for two Metro corridors in the city – from Sikandra crossing to Trident Hotel and Agra Cantonment Station to District Court.

Metro in the first stretch will pass through Institute of Mental Health and Hospital (IMHH), St John’s College, S N Medical College, Heeng ki Mandi, Agra Fort, Fatehabad Road and Circuit House. The second route will cross Sadar Bazar, Pratap Pur crossing, M G Road and Hari Parwat localities.

Agra landmarks to get direct metro connection

Agra: Taj Mahal, Agra Fort and Akbar's Tomb, besides many other landmarks of the city will now have metro rail connectivity. The feasibility report submitted by Rail India Technical and Economic Service (RITES) has proposed 30 stations, 11 underground and 19 elevated, for two corridors of the Metro Rail in the city in the first phase. The two routes are Sikandra to Taj Mahal East gate via Agra Fort and Agra Cantt to Kalindi Vihar.

Both corridors have 15 stations each and a total length of 30 km. While the first corridor between Sikandra and Taj Mahal will have both elevated (5 stations) and underground sections (10 stations), the second corridor from Agra Cantt to Kalindi Vihar will be mainly elevated, with just one underground station at Nehru Nagar

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 27 Sep 2015 23:54

vayu tuvan wrote:Theo: That is interesting. Is 8' wide pedestrians path that common? In the US I have not seen anything that wide. Of course, for India that might be require as the pedestrian traffic is an order magnitude larger.

The newer AASHTO standard is 5'+3' for bike path. So that is what I used.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Sep 2015 02:25

i dunno about joint bike paths shared by walkers. normally serious road bikers stay away from walker routes and paths. they move to roads.. hence, my current city is marking either side of the roads with 3' bike paths wherever possible. this has started more vigorously from this summer.

attending to details is what we require.. we have to study not only how our current mass use the road system, but also how they might use in the future, and at the same time the current pattern can help us guide them to use the roads the way we would like them to use.. that is what we require. but for that, we need solid big data analysis.

the whats can be defined.. hows can be derived, but from which is the problem.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Sep 2015 03:25

The new AASHTO guide has a barrier between the two. Usually a curb with a 6" level difference....

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 28 Sep 2015 08:02

DMRC last week commissioned a 100 kWp solar plant at Gurgaon's HUDA City Centre station:

Source: The Metro Rail Guy