Mass Rapid Transit in India

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tandav
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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby tandav » 04 Apr 2017 09:43

Its possible to design transit systems that go through living and working spaces.

Examples
Light Metro going through a building in Chonqing in China


Highways going through building in Japan


In India Vashi and Nerul Local stations have office buildings built above them.


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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Sachin » 09 May 2017 11:30

Meanwhile at Kochi..
Kochi Metro gets CMRS nod to begin operations......
--
This may be one of those very rare occasions in Kerala, where some government project was completed pretty much on time, and on budget (or lesser than the budget). Don't know if the credit goes entirely to Metro Man, E.Sreedharan or even the governments played along.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Karthik S » 10 May 2017 09:25

People are angry about Delhi metro fare hike, saw that it's first revision in last 7 years, and 32 km and above is just Rs 50. Still seems very nominal considering the convenience and cost of other means of transport.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Kashi » 10 May 2017 10:14

People are spoiled, they want all the benefits without paying for them.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby JohnTitor » 13 May 2017 12:27

Kashi wrote:People are spoiled, they want all the benefits without paying for them.

Absolutely. It's the entitlement disease. They wouldn't complain if these were private projects because they know that government can't do anything about pricing.

The result of under pricing of government run projects due to entitlement attitude results in poor infrastructure and lack of maintenance. But people aren't too bothered.

Further, in india people are willing to compromise quality over cost. Lower quality is cheaper and therefore incurs less short-term cost on the consumer. You can see this in every avenue of life (same reason why export quality is so much better than what is sold in the country). This is changing slowly but there's a long way to go before quality is given priority over cost as it is in the west.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Sachin » 13 May 2017 13:51

Karthik S wrote:People are angry about Delhi metro fare hike, saw that it's first revision in last 7 years, and 32 km and above is just Rs 50. Still seems very nominal considering the convenience and cost of other means of transport.

Too much of socialism is injurious to (nation's) health. Years of this benevolent dictatorship like rule have made every one just expect government to feed every one out there. The people's job is to make more babies.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby sarabpal.s » 13 May 2017 16:40

New birth control tactics. :rotfl:

Sachin wrote:
Karthik S wrote:People are angry about Delhi metro fare hike, saw that it's first revision in last 7 years, and 32 km and above is just Rs 50. Still seems very nominal considering the convenience and cost of other means of transport.

Too much of socialism is injurious to (nation's) health. Years of this benevolent dictatorship like rule have made every one just expect government to feed every one out there. The people's job is to make more babies.


Any hike should be inline with government policy of pollution free Delhi.. guess i was using it for 6+ times in day but now bike or car is only choice.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Karthik S » 13 May 2017 16:58

sarabpal.s wrote:New birth control tactics. :rotfl:

Sachin wrote:Too much of socialism is injurious to (nation's) health. Years of this benevolent dictatorship like rule have made every one just expect government to feed every one out there. The people's job is to make more babies.


Any hike should be inline with government policy of pollution free Delhi.. guess i was using it for 6+ times in day but now bike or car is only choice.


You may chose whichever is more economical to you. As someone said, will any house owner not raise his rent for 7 straight years? Even after price hike, still it is economical for the facility and convenience it offers. And if you will use your bike in delhi, good luck to your lungs.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby sarabpal.s » 13 May 2017 17:10

1st place i don't how many travel in metro? Nobody opposed it. But it shoukd be rationale​. You can't rasied to 60 % overnight with cutting in slab too this is the part which hurt most. Lecturing is wasy when your not end user

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Kashi » 13 May 2017 17:15

sarabpal.s wrote:1st place i don't how many travel in metro? Nobody opposed it. But it shoukd be rationale​. You can't rasied to 60 % overnight with cutting in slab too this is the part which hurt most. Lecturing is wasy when your not end user


How do assume that there are no end-users here? Surely you are not the only one who rides Delhi Metro in these parts.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby barath_s » 13 May 2017 18:01

Chennai Metro’s Koyambedu – Nehru Park Stretch to Open on May 14

Get set for a spate of stories. This will be Chennai's first underground stretch, there will be no tokens , only Rs 100 Smart Cards, cell phone service will take 3-4 months more to provide and more ...

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/che ... 445153.ece

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby JohnTitor » 13 May 2017 20:36

sarabpal.s wrote:1st place i don't how many travel in metro? Nobody opposed it. But it shoukd be rationale​. You can't rasied to 60 % overnight with cutting in slab too this is the part which hurt most. Lecturing is wasy when your not end user

You might have a valid argument about a 60% rise overnight. But that is because they haven't raised it for years!

In most countries, the price of public transport rises every year, in line with inflation. I have lived in many countries and other than the middle east (which is run on oil exports) prices rise regularly. Some of it is reinvested, some of it is skimmed off for profit. Only in India have I seen prices of goods/services offered by the govt not change years on end. The result is crappy infrastructure and no investment. Too many people feel entitled and want a free ride. That is not feasible, everyone HAS to pay their fair share for the services they use. Only then can the country progress.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby sarabpal.s » 14 May 2017 11:55

Pollution fight or profit never come on table , :((
Delhi metro rasing fair to justify own decisions makers salary's.
Down line staff not paid on time , u may regularly staf wearing black band to protest.

Biggest thing Delhi metro is a rarest profit making metro transport company in world, sound the ring bell :eek:

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby kvraghav » 15 May 2017 11:29

sarabpal.s wrote:Pollution fight or profit never come on table , :((
Delhi metro rasing fair to justify own decisions makers salary's.
Down line staff not paid on time , u may regularly staf wearing black band to protest.

Biggest thing Delhi metro is a rarest profit making metro transport company in world, sound the ring bell :eek:

Multiple one liners but let's clarify
Regarding pollution, we remember it only for our profit isint it? Do we even care to stop pollution of other forms?
How do you know it only hikes the decision makers salary? Haven't the employees salaries been hiked since last seven years?
Making profit is wrong nowadays in Delhi? We need socialist approach right where we live off the govt subsidies and the govt keeps taking loans to crash one day.
We all expect hikes every year but all other fares should be same. The logic is because it is corruption. Bangalore bus transport is also profitable and keeps hiking every year but it provides good service. We are OK with the multiplex hikes, the coke and Pepsi served there.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby JohnTitor » 15 May 2017 13:21

^^ His argument doesn't make sense. As you said, individually we should all get pay rises, but the companies that pay us can't rise prices. There is no logic to it.

sarabpal, look at the end of the day, in a fiat currency system, inflation is inevitable. That being the case, as long as the prices rise by a reasonable amount (regularly) and it pays for employee pay rises, cleanliness, maintenance etc etc.. then it is fine. I'd like to see you argue with your landlord against his rent rise, or turn down your pay hike because you don't want your employer to rise his product prices.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby sarabpal.s » 15 May 2017 17:29

Few had problem here the way i right, yes this is the way i am. My message is clear .
Read it i am not opposing hike but the %. on the other hand related to salary i had discussion with employees​

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Kashi » 15 May 2017 17:55

sarabpal.s wrote:Few had problem here the way i right, yes this is the way i am. My message is clear .
Read it i am not opposing hike but the %. on the other hand related to salary i had discussion with employees​


So in other words you have no evidence about the salaries except for speaking to a few "employees"?

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby arshyam » 15 May 2017 21:01

Guys, think of it this way. If you stay in a place paying the same rent for 10 years, and the landlord suddenly decides to hike the rent by 50% to make up for the lost years, is it the tenant's fault? Raising a fare by 60% is never good, even in the most capitalistic of societies. Apparently, the fare committee was set up only in 2016, though DMRC has been asking for regular increases since 2009. What was the govt doing till now? Heck, what was the NDA MoUD doing since 2014? They could have raised it by 5 rupees every years and got it to this fare a bit more gradually.

In the name of fiscal conservatism, people tend to argue that a higher fare is a good thing because we are getting infra that we otherwise won't have. In theory that is correct, but building expensive infra without having usage due to high fares is of even less use. That's the reason most countries world over subsidize public transport to a large extent - the resulting economic activity makes up in taxes from elsewhere. I don't know if DMRC at this fare slab will run as profit entity - a series of hikes over 2 years would have been a better approach.

Suddenly hiking by 60% in one of the most polluted cities in the world and with the highest rate of car ownership is just plain stupidity.

I am not arguing for dirt cheap IR-like fares in perpetuity. That is the other extreme. But a balance needs to be maintained between social good from affordable and efficient public transport, and a remunerative cost structure.

kvraghav wrote:Bangalore bus transport is also profitable and keeps hiking every year but it provides good service. We are OK with the multiplex hikes, the coke and Pepsi served there.

I hope you were being sarcastic :). I am sure you know of the thousands of people in BLR who cannot afford the high BMTC fares (especially stage 3) and alight at an earlier stop and walk to save the difference of 10 rs. My daily one-way non-a/c bus commute will cost me 15 rupees for a distance of 6 km. Whereas the BLR metro will take me a comparable distance in air-conditioned comfort in much shorter time, which is why the patronage in the metro is already so high. I think Namma metro's fares have struck the right balance, with BMTC and other metros like Chennai and now Delhi at the higher end. JMT and all that.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Suraj » 16 May 2017 00:03

arshyam wrote:I am not arguing for dirt cheap IR-like fares in perpetuity. That is the other extreme. But a balance needs to be maintained between social good from affordable and efficient public transport, and a remunerative cost structure.

I would argue that the current action is the 'balance' that the voting public sought. They didn't want rates raised, and repeated efforts to do so faced opposition and government pussilanimity . Ultimately rates were only raised when operational budget was threatened.

Sometimes, the best way to force a long term reasonable solution is to force things to such a head that it necessitates major action. The public doesn't want a reasonable operational doctrine in place at the outset. So let them learn it the hard way.

The current fare hike will hopefully be accompanied by the removal of rate setting authority from the hands of elected government, and placed within that of an independent body that estimates cost of operations and inflation and raises rates accordingly, with a legislative law only capping the maximum raising amount and minimum period between which rates can be raised, e.g. rates can be raised only 10% max, and only once every 2 years.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby sarabpal.s » 16 May 2017 09:19

Kashi wrote:
sarabpal.s wrote:Few had problem here the way i right, yes this is the way i am. My message is clear .
Read it i am not opposing hike but the %. on the other hand related to salary i had discussion with employees​


So in other words you have no evidence about the salaries except for speaking to a few "employees"?

This is how some talk, for evidence ask any black band wearing Delhi metro employee..

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Kashi » 16 May 2017 09:30

sarabpal.s wrote:This is how some talk, for evidence ask any black band wearing Delhi metro employee..


Since you made the claim on an open forum, the onus is on you to provide evidence and data to back up your claims.

I look forward to your data.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Karthik S » 16 May 2017 09:47

arshyam wrote:Guys, think of it this way. If you stay in a place paying the same rent for 10 years, and the landlord suddenly decides to hike the rent by 50% to make up for the lost years, is it the tenant's fault? Raising a fare by 60% is never good, even in the most capitalistic of societies. Apparently, the fare committee was set up only in 2016, though DMRC has been asking for regular increases since 2009. What was the govt doing till now? Heck, what was the NDA MoUD doing since 2014? They could have raised it by 5 rupees every years and got it to this fare a bit more gradually.

In the name of fiscal conservatism, people tend to argue that a higher fare is a good thing because we are getting infra that we otherwise won't have. In theory that is correct, but building expensive infra without having usage due to high fares is of even less use. That's the reason most countries world over subsidize public transport to a large extent - the resulting economic activity makes up in taxes from elsewhere. I don't know if DMRC at this fare slab will run as profit entity - a series of hikes over 2 years would have been a better approach.

Suddenly hiking by 60% in one of the most polluted cities in the world and with the highest rate of car ownership is just plain stupidity.

I am not arguing for dirt cheap IR-like fares in perpetuity. That is the other extreme. But a balance needs to be maintained between social good from affordable and efficient public transport, and a remunerative cost structure.


Instead of using the math to calculate the percentage hike, can we look at the prices in context please. 32 km is Rs 50. To and fro journey in a day is 64 km for Rs 100. Now you calculate the fuel cost if one were to use car as you mentioned about car ownership. This is purely in economic terms, am not even bringing up other issues such as traffic, pollution, convenience etc. And because we Indians are loath to frequent price hikes, am sure this hike would taken into account future costs as well.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Rohit_K » 16 May 2017 11:09

barath_s wrote:Chennai Metro’s Koyambedu – Nehru Park Stretch to Open on May 14


Lots of nice pictures and videos here
http://themetrorailguy.com/2017/05/14/c ... augurated/

Construction history with 14 TBM breakthroughs
http://themetrorailguy.com/2017/05/13/h ... k-section/

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby arshyam » 16 May 2017 23:09

^^ Welcome back, Rohit_K.

@Karthik S, fair points, but I am against sudden hikes after a long lull. A regular revision that is small enough and keeps up with inflation is a better approach. Hopefully with the fare committee established that will be the norm going forward. But let's see, this is Kejri's Dilli too.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby arshyam » 16 May 2017 23:13

Speaking of Dilli, this is the infra they are getting. Prepare to be wowed!

Credits: TMRG's article about planned phase 4

Image

After phase 4, Delhi will boast of a 450+ km network!

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Karthik S » 16 May 2017 23:21

Delhi metro is a remarkable growth story, this year, the network length will exceed 300 km. In 15 years, it's become one of the largest networks in the world. Should be really grateful to E Sreedharan.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Suraj » 16 May 2017 23:37

300km+ would put it in the top 10 in system length. 400+ would see it overtake London, Moscow and New York metros, with only Beijing and Shanghai ahead of it in system length. The cumulative phase 3 updates due for completion this year add up to 156km, which means total system length will be almost 370km this year - ahead of Moscow and just a bit shorter than NY and London . Quite an impressive feat for a city with 0km metro just 15 years ago.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Kashi » 17 May 2017 05:30

arshyam wrote:After phase 4, Delhi will boast of a 450+ km network!


I do hope they take care of interchanges. I know this is only a conceptual map, but there seems to be no interchange between the proposed Aerocity-Tughlakabad line and the existing Yellow line.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby sarabpal.s » 17 May 2017 09:45

{Deleted. Mind your language.}
Last edited by Suraj on 17 May 2017 10:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby kmkraoind » 24 May 2017 11:45

India’s first underwater rail tunnel completed ahead of schedule

On an average we have dug 35 to 40 metres every day, following which the digging of the entire tunnel length of 520 metres was completed in little more than a month,” the KMRCL officer said.


My eyes are just popping out with dismay. I know Bangalore terrain is different, but the speed here is really astonishing. In Bangalore, they took 4+ years to dig a tunnel from Majestic to KR Market.

If we conclude the soil nature is same in Assam's Brahamaputra river, I bet we can achieve this dream at much faster with less cost than an similar over bridge.

My only wish being, let L&T and/or TATA plunges in manufacturing of TBMs (tunnel boring machines), and cut imports from Germany, Switzerland and Japan.

Build tunnels under Brahmaputra river to outfox enemy forces, says Army

Lt Gen DS Ahuja, commanding officer of an Army setup in Shillong, said enemies invariably target strategic bridges in a bid to snap communication and disrupt the movement of troops, supplies and weaponry. “Bridges become primary targets during wars. We could do with tunnels under the Brahmaputra, which virtually divides much of the Northeast into equal halves,” he said at a two-day road show of the Inland Waterways Authority of India (IWAI) in the Assam capital on Monday.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Rohit_K » 25 May 2017 20:36

Another metro stretch is opening in Delhi this Sunday. This will connect ITO - Delhi Gate - Lal Quila - Jama Masjid - Kashmere Gate.

TMRG's article with images -
Delhi Metro’s ITO – Kashmere Gate Section to Open on May 28

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Rohit_K » 26 May 2017 22:02

Rohit_K wrote:Another metro stretch is opening in Delhi this Sunday. This will connect ITO - Delhi Gate - Lal Quila - Jama Masjid - Kashmere Gate.

TMRG's article with images -
Delhi Metro’s ITO – Kashmere Gate Section to Open on May 28


Many more images in this post
Delhi Metro’s Heritage Line is Ready for Sunday Launch

2 stations will have glass QR code accepting ticketing gates. Might be a little weak?
https://twitter.com/TheMetroRailGuy/sta ... 6884196352

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby JohnTitor » 26 May 2017 22:18

Rohit_K wrote:
Rohit_K wrote:Another metro stretch is opening in Delhi this Sunday. This will connect ITO - Delhi Gate - Lal Quila - Jama Masjid - Kashmere Gate.

Many more images in this post
Delhi Metro’s Heritage Line is Ready for Sunday Launch

Interesting to see that they have used mostly abrahamic art. Maybe they haven't taken pics of hindu art but going just by that it looks very islamic with a hint of christian art.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby Karthik S » 26 May 2017 22:22

May be because it's jama masjid station. But I agree, not happy with art selection.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby JohnTitor » 26 May 2017 22:30

yep - had i seen those pics without any context, i would have said that it must be an airport/station in the middle east or somewhere like malaysia/indonesia.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby arshyam » 27 May 2017 19:15

@vsunder saar, from your old suggestion on the Namma metro inauguration, looks like the tender for laddus is out:

Laddoo tenders ​indicate Bengaluru Metro launch not before June 1st week - TNIE

Laddoos have inadvertently become the giveaway to the Metro Phase-1 launch. Four tender documents have been released on Bangalore Metro Rail Corporation Limited (BMRCL) website calling for supply of laddoos and other sweets and refreshments to mark the launch of the entire Phase 1.

The tenders for these will be opened only on June 1. Assuming that a minimum time period of a week will be given to the awardees to ready their supplies, the tender announcement by far is the loudest hint that inauguration may happen only after the first week of June.

BMRCL officials have been tightlipped on the entire matter for the past few weeks. Till last month, they had asserted that the inaugural will happen by May 31.

In the mean time, CM Siddaramaiah invited President Pranab Mukherjee to inaugurate the project. But even the invite made no mention of the date. Later, any query on the inaugural date was tied to the President’s schedule and unofficially, it was deemed to be sometime in June.<snip>


Invite the President of India with no date specified! How does that even work - "dear Mr. President, please tell me if you'll be available sometime next month for a vijjit to namma Bengaluru for opening our metro and partaking in our laddus. Oh, we can't tell the exact date as we don't know it ourselves, so please keep yourself and Air India One ready to whisk your esteemed self down to BLR for a day. Yours unsincerely, GoK."

I think we are being taken for a ride by this govt.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby vsunder » 30 May 2017 23:34

First as I have always said a tender for laddoos or lalus, is a necessary condition and not a sufficient condition for the system to be open. Here is some food for thought.

I am posting a link to the BMRCL's own newsletter of May 2017 of a few days ago. It explicitly states as it has for several months now, virtually the same amount of cubic meters of concrete to pour to close the roof and concourse slab in the two underground stations of Reach 4, scheduled for opening, Chikpet and KR market. The monsoons have arrived as of yesterday, so it should make for a nice jacuzzi for Bengalureans.
Pouring concrete is not enough, it has to cure and finishing works have to be done too etc. Pictures of these stations indicate unfinished exits posing evacuation hazards and other exits which are littered with construction material, leave alone unfinished cladding work and exposed ducts etc. and other aesthetic deficiencies. Areas around the UG stations do not seem to have proper approaches and look unfinished. Itna jaldi kyon? Look at the pics in the May 2017 newsletter, of these unfinished UG stations.

From May 2017 newsletter
Chickpet Station :
-

Architectural finishing works like Flooring, Railing Fixing, Plastering, Painting etc are under progress. E&M
works like Cable Laying, Tunnel Vent Fan fixing, Escalator Fixing, A.C. duct work etc are under progress.

RCC Works: Concourse slab of 9178 Sqm completed out of 9267 Sqm. Sidewall (Concourse to Roof) of
4392 Cum out of 4565 Cum. Roof Slab 9556 Sqm completed out of 9766 Sqm. Ancillary Building 1656 Cum
completed out of 1656 cu m



http://www.bmrc.co.in/pdf/news/May%202017.pdf

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby arshyam » 31 May 2017 06:49

^^ Yes, the market and Chikpet stations look very far from complete, going by the latest pics on SSC forum. But is there any chance they could have finished those sidewall and roof works in a month's time (from the time of the newsletter and the present)? Considering the CMRS inspection just happened, wouldn't these be obvious cases of failure for the inspection? Perhaps BMRCL wants to open the stretch without these two stations to begin with. But even that would require a safe path for the trains without construction going on over the tracks. My guess is, they want to open one entrance each in both of these stations for the time being. Let's see what the CMRS says.

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Re: Mass Rapid Transit in India

Postby vsunder » 31 May 2017 07:21

It is not the fact there is a hole in the roof and concourse slab that bothers me. Neither does the fact that they seem to have the same hole for a long time that bothers me. What bothers me is what are they tying with a rope and lowering down that hole, escalators, massive air-conditioners, venting equipment for the tunnel, a nuclear reactor for the submarine, that moves up and down the tunnels, there are ICBM's in the Bangalore Metro, cases of Kothari chaap paan ka gutka, that is what bothers me or at least that is my surmise. If whatever had to be lowered was lowered, then they could close that hole ages ago. If they need till May, then something is being lowered there at this late stage. So is it that equipment is still being put in place days before opening? I mean if all of Nidrababa's gold bars have been lowered into patal lok and properly stowed in the cupboards downstairs, then done finished and for all I care they can put a plywood sheet over the hole, have Pranabda not walk over it, while doing "ke golpo korche" with him Nidra baba can do "Nidre" or Pranabda can ask him "ghum korbo" and wave a green flag, light a lamp, have a round of "khemta dancing" and off we go etc. Today is my Bengali speaking day. Yesterday was Tulu and Friday is Kanpuriya.

That must be the only purpose of that hole that is never closed, lowering things down. We will find out soon. BMRCL in the past has blamed CMRS and passed the buck back and forth with him, so anything is possible. Then they can say, we did everything but CMRS has not been cooperative it is a central authority they don't want Congress yada yada yada.


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