Mass Rapid Transit in India

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 26 Jan 2011 08:25

I hesitate to say that that the system is already overload. It was intended to carry 22 lakh passengers a day and now carries only 16 lakh or so per day. Yet that is craziness. But it is not the showpiece calm and organized system it was anymore. It is rapidly descending to cattle car status.

I have said this before that India is unique in the scale of our population. Maybe China comes close in density. We should have bit the bullet and built to our capacity standards at least rather than insisting on international standards that have no conception of the crush in India.

Unfortunately all the cities are now copying the exact same model of SG and short 6 car rakes. Bangalore is going to start with what looks like 3 car rakes. This is the equivalent of 3-6 buses arriving every 4-5 minutes. In Chennai with roughly 4000 city buses this would be grossly inadequate. Guess we will have to wait and see. It is most unfortunate as a Chennai metro station is one block from my dads house and I was looking forward to easy rides and connectivity.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 26 Jan 2011 10:02

Metros are not supposed to be showpieces; they're just public transport. In countries with dense populations, crowds are normal. Take a look at:
Tokyo

Shanghai

New Delhi seems a fair bit tamer, for now.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 26 Jan 2011 19:59

Look at the upside's of commuting by Bombay Locals - Full body Massaging for free, plus you do not have to have an exercise regime.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 27 Jan 2011 01:24

prashanth wrote:Im actually worried about the contrary. With fares around Rs 15 for 7KM I doubt if the metro service can attract decent crowd in Bangalore. In addition to that we have an efficient BMTC in Bangalore.

Metros are going to be crowded. That is just part of the deal. In Delhi, the Metro has taken some 1,6 million people off the roads. That is a lot of pollution. Better Bus service is required. Bus lanes should be given highest possible priority all across the larger Indian cities.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 27 Jan 2011 21:07

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 316482.cms

Sreedharan admitted that the escalating ridership has been a pleasant surprise. "There was tremendous opposition to the Metro earlier and it had even been described as a white elephant... (But) the speed, delivery (on schedule) of what was promised as well as its reliability have made the system successful," he said. "Our own estimate was 18 lakh passengers in Phase I. We've reached an average ridership of 15.5 lakh till now and this is expected to go up by the next phase," he added.

Sreedharan said three trains have already been converted. "On Line 2 too, trial runs (of six-coach trains) are going on successfully. Every week, we plan to convert a train into six coaches," said the DMRC head. "The decision to convert into six coaches was taken as we found that for four-coach trains, the interval between two small trains has to be very small. So seven-eight months ago, we changed the policy and decided to introduce six- coach trains, which are more efficient in this scenario," he admitted. Interestingly, he claimed that internationally, the average standard for metros was six persons (standing) in every square metre, while for developing countries, it`s eight persons. "We are following the eight persons norm here even now," he said.

At present, a four-coach train can carry around 1,200 passengers. With the addition of two more coaches, this is expected to go up to 1,800. According to DMRC officials, over 25 lakh passengers are expected to be accommodated in the new six-coach trains. If the traffic continues to increase, DMRC may even introduce eight-coach trains in Phase III, the official said. The cost of each newly-inducted coach is about Rs 7 crore.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 28 Jan 2011 00:10

DMRC shoots down Plan Panel proposal for PPP on metro projects

In view of the bitter experience with a private partner on the Airport Express Metro Line, which has been delayed significantly, the DMRC has shot down the Planning Commission’s proposal to develop metro projects in 50 cities under a Public-Private Partnership model.

The Delhi Metro Rail Corporation’s (DMRC) reservations were expressed during a recent meeting with officials of the Planning Commission, where DMRC Chairman and Managing Director E Sreedharan argued against implementation of such projects in a PPP mode, a source said.

According to sources, “Mr. Sreedharan had argued that it has not worked anywhere across the world and it will also not work in India and cited the example of Airport Express Metro Line, which was to be completed before Commonwealth Games and is still hanging fire.”

The source said, “In the meeting, Mr. Sreedharan referred to an incident of a metro rail project in the UK, where a private player pulled out its equity and later, the government had to take over.”

In its argument, the Plan panel said an equity investment of about Rs 1.6 lakh crore would be required to execute these projects in over 50 cities across India with a population of over one million.

Since funding all the projects would be a problem for the government, the Planning Commission had suggested roping in private companies to implement the projects in the PPP mode.

When this idea was discussed with DMRC to seek their expert comments on this, it was dumped right away by the corporation.

Representatives of the Urban Development Ministry also said that PPP in metro rail projects has not been successful worldwide. They also rejected the panel’s assertion that there was a need to set up metro rail projects in 50 cities.

The DMRC also said that a metro rail project in all cities with a population over one million is not viable and the benchmark population to qualify for such project should be raised to two million.

It also said the government should look into the comprehensive mobility plan (CMP) of a city before going ahead with a metro rail project.

With regard to the CMP, the government should look at the availability of other modes of transport that can be introduced with less investment, such as taxis, auto rickshaws and buses, it said.

Giving the example of a metro rail project in Chandigarh, the DMRC argued that the city does not need a metro rail, as the maximum distance from one place to other is not more than nine kilometres.

One of the officials involved with the planning of metro rail projects in the Planning Commission disclosed that the government does not want to be an equity partner in such projects, as they are not profitable ventures.

The Plan panel is in favour of the Centre giving grants for such projects without holding an equity stake, leaving the responsibility of implementing and managing the projects to the States.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 28 Jan 2011 00:43

How about mono-rail or equivalent for these tier-ii cities with population of a million. Though I cannot see how a factor of just two makes it more viable and in any case with population growth within cities being inevitable with more migration from the rural countryside. Why not plan and implement now, if the idea is to get 75% of the population in cities by 2030 (?) or is it 2050 (?) and hence the argument that we do not need it now.

The population of the entire Baltimore-Washington Metroplex as of 2007 is 8,241,912.[3][4][5][6][7][8] The most populous city is Baltimore, with a population of 637,455. The most populous county is Fairfax County, Virginia, with a population exceeding 1 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore% ... litan_Area

But the area of this is at a minimum 10 times the average size of Tier-II cities and very likely much more, if Chandigarh is only 9km in diameter and probably cities like Kochi are no more than 20km point to point at the outer edges, but definitely higher density than DC metro area for sure.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Jan 2011 02:46

More than size what matters is density, income and ridership. Rather than some arbitrary cutoff it shouldn't be hard to do a study based on these factors. A team of 200 could do a quick feasibility study for the top 100 cities/conglomerations in India in under 6 months.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 28 Jan 2011 02:51

WMATA (Washington Metro Authority) saw the need for a viable public transit by late 60s as the beltway expanded and new government and military jobs were created. They started building one of the best and cleanest metro systems in US in mid-70s and have expanded ever since. Yes, they do have plenty of funding problems but it goes to show that high-population areas need planning that can foresee atleast 2-3 decades ahead.

Bangalore Metro is 20 years late, but it is definitely a step in the right direction. When those 8-9 million rupees Volvo city buses were launched in 2005, i thought they'd be a liability on BMTC. I was right for a while as most buses went empty with a minimum ticket tag at 50 Rs. But in the last 4 years the ridership has dramatically expanded and so has the fleet. As people become more wealthy,they prefer to make less compromises. I'm sure Bangalore Metro would be a roaring success and now they need to start looking at going deeper into the city with more stops. People have suffered enough in the hands of those thuggish auto/taxi drivers in Bangalore.It is time they deserve better.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 28 Jan 2011 03:31

We are always far behind the curve as regards infrastructure with spurious arguments from the learned leaders quoting current statistics, economics, environmentalism and sociology to prove why we do not need something today. The piskology is rooted in us too deep for timely correction.

Metros and roads were due at least three decades back. If Kolkata of all cities which was called out as a Dying City got one in 1984, I do not know how the other more entrepreneurial cities did not qualify even for a limited track length.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Jan 2011 04:00

Bade,

Indian cities have always wanted Metro's. Just didn't have the confidence we could build them right. The Kolkatta cost/time escalation disaster and the smaller failure of Chennai MRTS froze all other cities plans.

As far back as early 1980's I remember plans for a Metro system in Chennai. The cost then was 750 Crores for a single line down Mount road for about 25 km. All overhead as we did not know how to build underground tunnels (Ground water fears) and TBM's were unheard off. Kolkatta's cut and cover disaster struck fear into everyone's hearts. We also didn't have these humongous private sector construction conglomerates running around so everything would have to be done by PWD.Trust me PWD was Shi_ scared of even touching the project. The big worry was moving utilities from Mount road. We didn't have the technology, equipment or skilled manpower required. You may find this hard to believe but there was an entire chapter in the report on how to get the cement necessary without triggering severe shortages! There was another chapter on how to get the steel necessary!

Also I remember that back then that a single years budget for the corporation of Chennai was ~ Rs 60 Crore most of it for salaries and pensions. It is now approaching Rs 2000 crore. We wanted it alright, just couldn't afford it. We didn't even have the money for land acquisition, which is why the MRTS winds so strategically away from all residential areas

, and so from its ridership base. Think about that we could not afford to pay even our own people properly. Now we don't even think twice about spending Rs1000 crore. That's what has changed.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 28 Jan 2011 08:22

Thanks for the nuggets that I was not aware of even for Kolkata Metro. From what I did learn about cut & fill being chosen had to do with the nature of the soil in then Calcutta. But since then it has used the Japanese method of boring through quite successfully.

Hasn't land acquisition costs in those densely populated city centers also gone up substantially in the interim keeping up with the revenue generated. So we may end up with this deficit arguments citing economics forever. Tunneling deep underground being the only solution left at last.

It looks like a curse, we always had great fortified cities with palaces and tombs and temples but nothing really large scale for the general public convenience. Today we have gated enclaves and the same filth and poor common infrastructure outside of modern day palaces, the villas and vertical communities.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Jan 2011 12:35

Yes land acquisition costs are higher. For the metro I believe 10 acres of land needs to be acquired from private parties. I have heard an estimate of Rs 35 crores as the land acquisition costs along with transferable developmental rights. No land acquisition despite the outcry has become infinitely easier now that market prices are always paid out, tax free I might add. All white money. Before governments did not pay market price.

As far as cut & cover Kolkatta has the good fortune of deep alluvial soil. About 50% of of Chennai is underlain with hard basement rock, often at 10 meters or less. Not only that there is perched water on top, which essentially means it will keep coming as you pump it. Perched water is often under pressure and so no pumps we have would be able to keep up. This is one reason Chennai has so few basements even in multistorey buildings.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 28 Jan 2011 13:42

[youtube]Uk1lTEvzs3I&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

a new beginning for the city of B'lore as trial run begins on Trinity Reach 1.

B'lore now becomes the 2nd Indian city with a world class Metro system. Should be followed by Mumbai and Chennai soon with Hyd. and Japipur in the pipeline and things moving fast.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 28 Jan 2011 20:00

theo ji, very interesting point about competence of the folk who were building kolkata metro back in the 80's. this is where DMRC has done a superb job in laying lines under old delhi without a single mishap, where apparently many houses don't even have foundations !
a metric to understand how far we have come in this area as a country can be understood from a little snippet about line2 of kolkata metro, for which construction is ongoing at a furious pace. one section of that line will pass under the hoogly river !

negi · Post by **negi** » 28 Jan 2011 20:12

^ Is the power being transmitted via a metal strip between the tracks (like the old line) or via an overhead cable ? I think Kolkata should also convert the old tram lines into a skybus type system (it will also pacify the the ones who wish to retain the old charm). In our metros it is difficult to displace people and widen the roads by another 15-20 feet so it makes perfect sense to have sky-bus plying on an elevated structure in middle of the road that way one can have both the skybus and the road available for the traffic.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 28 Jan 2011 20:55

negi wrote:^ Is the power being transmitted via a metal strip between the tracks (like the old line) or via an overhead cable ?

It's called the "Third Rail" system. I remember someone mentioning here that apart from Kolkata, only one of the new metro lines being built in the country uses this. Is it Bangalore?

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 28 Jan 2011 21:05

nachiket wrote: It's called the "Third Rail" system. I remember someone mentioning here that apart from Kolkata, only one of the new metro lines being built in the country uses this. Is it Bangalore?

Yeah, Bengaluru Metro is on third rail power.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Jan 2011 10:46

In the meanwhile, the late starter, Chennai Metro, is buzzing along at a good clip. The only prayer is that this pace must be sustained. There are no major hiccups in land acquisition as most of the land is owned by the State. There are still one or two places where some land needs to be acquired but it is not expected to be a major hurdle due to generous market rate compensation and the licence to have more FSI for the owners at the alternate site. They can even exchange such a licence with realtors.

Partial Metro services by 2013

Metro rail works to construct an elevated corridor from Koyambedu to St Thomas Mount and from Saidapet to the Officers Training Academy are progressing as per schedule, deputy chief minister M K Stalin said on Friday.

"The works are progressing fast and at this rate we will be able to operate trains between Koyambedu and St Thomas Mount by 2013. The entire network of metro rail under phase one will be ready by 2015," he said after inspecting works near the Military Hospital in Alandur, SIDCO, Jawaharlal Nehru Street and Koyambedu.

He said "81 pillars have been constructed and concrete platforms placed between 11 pillars to form a viaduct on the Koyambedu-Ashok Nagar stretch. Works on elevated stations at Vadapalani and Koyambedu have begun."

Stalin also inspected the site of the proposed metro rail station at the airport.

"Extension of the line to Tambaram will be considered after taking up works at Tiruvottiyur and also the already announced phase two corridors," he told reporters.

Metro rail managing director K Rajaraman said a detailed project survey would be drawn up for Phase II to get funds from the Centre. "Phase two works will be treated as a separate project," he added.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Jan 2011 10:53

2 Firms bag 12 underground tunnels & station work: Chennai Metro

Two companies have been identified to design and construct underground tunnels and 12 underground stations from Washermenpet to Tirumangalam via Poonamallee High Road for Chennai metro rail.

Three tenders that were awarded cover works from Chennai Central to Tirumangalam underground section of corridor II and Washermenpet to Chennai Central via High Court stretch in Corridor I. Works for the Chennai Central-Saidapet section via Anna Salai will be finalised later.

A joint venture of Moscow-based Transtonnel Stroy and Afcons bagged two projects a Rs 1,566.81-crore contract to design and build five stations and tunnels from Washermenpet to Egmore via Chennai Central and a Rs 1,030.99-crore contract to build four stations and tunnels from Shenoy Nagar to Tirumangalam.

A joint venture of city-based Metro Tunnelling and L&T SUCG bagged the Rs 705.75-crore contract to design and build three underground stations and associated tunnels from Nehru Park to Pachaiyappa's College.

The stations that will be built are: Washermenpet, Mannadi, High Court, Chennai Central, Egmore, Nehru Park, Kilpauk Medical College, Pachaiyappa's College, Shenoy Nagar, Anna Nagar East, Anna Nagar Tower and Tirumangalam.

Latest Tunnel Boring Machines (TBMs) will be used for constructing tunnels without cutting open roads. The estimated cost for underground tunnelling is Rs 300 crore per kilometre. Safety of buildings above ground as well as water seepage will be taken into consideration when works begin. A study has been done to find out the locations prone to water seepage.

According to metro rail, the average depth of tunnels will vary from 15 to 17 metres from rail level with an outer diameter of 6.2 metres and an inner diameter of 5.8 metres. The tunnel will start from a depth of nine metres from the surface level. Utilities like power cables will not be affected.

However, roads will have to be cut open to build the 12 underground stations. Works will be divided into two stages. In the first stage, half the road will be closed and excavation and concreting of walls done. Then temporary decking will be done with support from the walls. Then, traffic will be diverted on the decked area. Then the other half of the road will be taken up. Work of excavation will continue in the underground portion below the deck slabs. Traffic would be regulated when station works start," said an official.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Jan 2011 11:10

negi wrote:^ Is the power being transmitted via a metal strip between the tracks (like the old line) or via an overhead cable ? I think Kolkata should also convert the old tram lines into a skybus type system (it will also pacify the the ones who wish to retain the old charm). In our metros it is difficult to displace people and widen the roads by another 15-20 feet so it makes perfect sense to have sky-bus plying on an elevated structure in middle of the road that way one can have both the skybus and the road available for the traffic.

our intellectual CM did promise skybus type monorail back in 2008 or so which turned out to be a hoax. the current plan for metro is quite extensive, the line 1 from dum dum to garia is already there and being extended to the airport in the north. line 2 is the east west line from rajarhat in the east to howrah in the west. this is being done by KMRC. line 3(near IIM @ joka to BBD bag incentral kolkata ) and 4(north to south along EM bypass) have apparently been sanctioned and soil testing has been done. unfortunately the last two are under IR and will in all probability be forgotten when momota didi vacates rail ministry to capture writers building. given IR's stepmotherly treatment to the metro it won't be surprising. the bigger problem is that KMRC has a different standard to the rest of the network. the kolkata metro's standard itself is a poor one, meter gauge bogeys on broad gauge lines which makes it one of a type in the world for all means and purposes.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 30 Jan 2011 17:15

incidentally, work on kolkata EM bypass BRTS has started.

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 30 Jan 2011 19:36

I think we have missed this:

Karnataka keen on commuter rail system for Bangalore

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 31 Jan 2011 15:46

Chennai Metro Rail in full swing, train services by 2013: Stalin

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 31 Jan 2011 17:03

meanwhile, back at the farm.....

Blueline buses going off Delhi roads from tomorrow

Delhi’s ‘killer’ Blueline buses, which earned notoriety for over-speeding, will go off the roads from tomorrow in tune with a deadline set by the city government, which today said the ambitious cluster bus service will be launched next week.

Transport Minister Arvinder Singh Lovely said the government has no intention to extend the deadline, which expires today, and maintained that the Delhi Transport Corporation will be able to cater to the transportation needs of the people in the capital.

Today is the last day for 840 Blueline buses, which were given permission to run after December 14 when the government extended its deadline for shunting out of the buses as part of efforts to streamline the public transport system in the city.

Transport Commissioner R K Verma said the cluster bus service will be launched with 50 buses anytime between February 7 and 10 along the Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) corridor in south Delhi.

“The cluster bus service will be launched in south Delhi area between February 7 and 10. Initially, 50 buses will be in service in the area. We are confident of increasing the number gradually,” he said.

The Transport Department is confident that DTC will cater to the needs of the people with a fleet of 6,200, including 3575 low-floor buses.

Mr. Verma said the DTC would include 500 buses in its fleet from tomorrow so as to facilitate people’s travel.

The Delhi transport department last year had divided nearly 650 bus routes in the city into 17 clusters, which included both profitable and non-profitable routes and had decided to give each cluster to a private operator through bidding process.

The city government had awarded the first cluster to Star Bus Services Pvt Ltd.

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 01 Feb 2011 11:24

okay, still on bus transport, this item is about comparison between BMTC (Bangalore) and MTC (Chennai).

Public transport system: Chennai has miles to go

Three technical teams made up of officials from various State transport undertakings of Tamil Nadu visited Maharashtra, Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh to study best practices in urban mobility.

The report which is a product of the visits recommends various steps such as privatising maintenance, complete automation of ticketing through the use of Electronic Bus Ticketing Machines, and increasing the range and availability of daily travel passes.

The study on the urban transport plan adopted by the Bangalore Metropolitan Transport Corporation (BMTC) is especially revealing.

While the Metropolitan Transport Corporation has an operational limit of 50 km and caters to 57 lakh commuters a day, its operational fleet is only 2,980 buses. The BMTC, on the other hand, has a lower operational limit of 40 km within which its fleet of 6,200 buses ply. Nearly 42 lakh commuters use public transport buses in Bangalore per day.

Essentially, the MTC carries 15 lakh passengers more than the BMTC on an average every day deploying only half the number of buses. Official figures show that MTC suffers from chronic overcrowding during rush hour as the average occupancy ratio is nearly 100, when capacity is only 72.

The CMDA's Chennai Traffic and Transportation Study says that the city needs a minimum of 5,000 public transport buses to be able to meet existing demand.

Bangalore also has nearly 500 AC buses, compared to Chennai's 100. BMTC operates many of them as high-speed, minimal stoppage buses along ring roads and radial corridors.

BMTC also evolved a slew of daily and weekly passes in order to boost ridership. For example, the Rs.1,350 passes specifically meant for IT employees can be used only on buses that ply to the Electronic City.

More than 10,000 commuters use the pass every day.

The concept of ‘Bus Day', which the MTC used to observe in the 1980s, was introduced by BMTC to encourage everyone to use public transport buses. On Bus Days, the pollution level in Bangalore's arterial corridors drops by 10 per cent, says Mr. Pasha, citing figures from the Karnataka State Pollution Control Board.

BMTC recently invested Rs.600 crore to create Traffic and Transit Management Centres (TTMC) in most of its depots. These urban mobility hubs would house ‘park and ride' facility, restrooms and commercial complexes.

Bangalore could do very well in the future with a well run Metro and bus transport system. All the big cities need this combination. Delhi's doing it, and Mumbai's doing it. Chennai needs it too, so next time I go there, I don't have to suffer at the hands of the auto mafia.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Feb 2011 13:53

Vasu wrote:okay, still on bus transport, this item is about comparison between BMTC (Bangalore) and MTC (Chennai).

Public transport system: Chennai has miles to go

Three technical teams made up of officials from various State transport undertakings of Tamil Nadu visited Maharashtra, Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh to study best practices in urban mobility.

The report which is a product of the visits recommends various steps such as privatising maintenance, complete automation of ticketing through the use of Electronic Bus Ticketing Machines, and increasing the range and availability of daily travel passes.

The study on the urban transport plan adopted by the Bangalore Metropolitan Transport Corporation (BMTC) is especially revealing.

While the Metropolitan Transport Corporation has an operational limit of 50 km and caters to 57 lakh commuters a day, its operational fleet is only 2,980 buses. The BMTC, on the other hand, has a lower operational limit of 40 km within which its fleet of 6,200 buses ply. Nearly 42 lakh commuters use public transport buses in Bangalore per day.

Essentially, the MTC carries 15 lakh passengers more than the BMTC on an average every day deploying only half the number of buses. Official figures show that MTC suffers from chronic overcrowding during rush hour as the average occupancy ratio is nearly 100, when capacity is only 72.

The CMDA's Chennai Traffic and Transportation Study says that the city needs a minimum of 5,000 public transport buses to be able to meet existing demand.

Bangalore also has nearly 500 AC buses, compared to Chennai's 100. BMTC operates many of them as high-speed, minimal stoppage buses along ring roads and radial corridors.

BMTC also evolved a slew of daily and weekly passes in order to boost ridership. For example, the Rs.1,350 passes specifically meant for IT employees can be used only on buses that ply to the Electronic City.

More than 10,000 commuters use the pass every day.

The concept of ‘Bus Day', which the MTC used to observe in the 1980s, was introduced by BMTC to encourage everyone to use public transport buses. On Bus Days, the pollution level in Bangalore's arterial corridors drops by 10 per cent, says Mr. Pasha, citing figures from the Karnataka State Pollution Control Board.

BMTC recently invested Rs.600 crore to create Traffic and Transit Management Centres (TTMC) in most of its depots. These urban mobility hubs would house ‘park and ride' facility, restrooms and commercial complexes.

Bangalore could do very well in the future with a well run Metro and bus transport system. All the big cities need this combination. Delhi's doing it, and Mumbai's doing it. Chennai needs it too, so next time I go there, I don't have to suffer at the hands of the auto mafia.

How much of this 57 Lac in Chennai Vs 42 Lac in Banglore is due to Lovely behaviour of Chennai Auto drivers I wonder, If I am to take an auto in Chennai, it means a) I am really desperate b) I am asking for trouble. Sometimes after a 12 hour day, I preferred waiting for a MTC bus rather than take the Auto fare.

I wonder what about the Share autos, in Chennai the Tata Magic based shareauto's are a super Hit.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Feb 2011 18:41

you guys should adopt the auto structure in kolkata. they run on fixed routes approved by the motor vehicles dept, all you have to do is wait till they get 4 passengers (which happens quite quickly). the service is quite cheap, comfortable and convenient.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 01 Feb 2011 19:01

Rahul M wrote:you guys should adopt the auto structure in kolkata. they run on fixed routes approved by the motor vehicles dept, all you have to do is wait till they get 4 passengers (which happens quite quickly). the service is quite cheap, comfortable and convenient.

Or use the Mumbai version. Go strictly by what it says on the meter and tariff card regardless of number of passengers or where you want to go (except south Mumbai where autos are not allowed). One of the biggest things I miss about Mumbai is the convenience of autos.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Feb 2011 19:06

that is how it is supposed to be isn't it ? if b'lore autowallahs went strictly by the meter rate we won;t be having this discussion.

the problem with that is a lot less people get carried per auto. the upside is it consumes less fuel (and is cheaper) than taking a 4wheeler taxi.
but strictly speaking, the fixed route thing is really convenient. you need to experience it to believe it.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 01 Feb 2011 19:11

Rahul, Mumbai autowallahs aren't inherently less paki than their BLR counterparts. The only thing that stops them from exhibiting their pakiness is the fear of the Havaldar and his lathi.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Feb 2011 19:23

Rahul M wrote:that is how it is supposed to be isn't it ? if b'lore autowallahs went strictly by the meter rate we won;t be having this discussion.
the problem with that is a lot less people get carried per auto. the upside is it consumes less fuel (and is cheaper) than taking a 4wheeler taxi.
but strictly speaking, the fixed route thing is really convenient. you need to experience it to believe it.

Boss the reason why we are having this discussion is that the B'lore autowallah comes of as a saint comepared to the Chennai Auto driver.

So understand the Pakiness of the Chennai Autowallah, you pay exhorbitanly and get abused at the same time.

Auto wallahs

Mumbai(bad)> Bangalore (worse)> Chennai (worst).

Talk to person from Mumbai and they talk 'Why don't you take a Rick' in a tone where auto rickshaw wallah is given respect, when a Chennaite thinks of an autowallah, from the tone of speaking you can make out his thought process is get the nearest Aruval and chop the auto drivers head.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 01 Feb 2011 20:41

nachiket wrote:The only thing that stops them from exhibiting their pakiness is the fear of the Havaldar and his lathi.

In that case we need to identify how this fear was brought in, and how it is sustained on a long term basis. My experience with both Taxi and Auto-Wallahs in Mumbai have been fair. They also had the no-nonsense attitude of putting on the meter, and checking the fare with the tarrif card and collecting the fare (nothing like 10 rupees extra kodi saar, or return empty hoga bekku saar trash). Other cities if they wish to seriously make these auto-wallahs toe the line should check up how Mu.Po could this.

In Chennai I heard the the police men themselves own a lot of auto rickshaws and this encouraged the goon mentality amongst the drivers. In Bangalore I feel the police were a bit lethargic (Bangalore being a very laid back city, retirees paradise once upon a time). That lethargy made these auto-wallahs bulleys. These fellows may also be goons "always at the service" of politicians, and perhaps this could also be a reason why the police generally stand aloof. But then is that not the case in Mumbai as well?

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 01 Feb 2011 21:59

The problem with the Chennai auto is that the fare price must be negotiated. This is where the entire rudeness and high and mighty stuff comes from. It is expected that you play the game too. And eventually a much lower price is reached. This worked when there was only a few hundred auto on the street and people had time/knowledge of where they were going. Now the city has 40,000 auto's and most people havn't been to 90% of the city and hence lack knowledge.

The basic problem is that 90% of the auto drivers don't own their vehicle. They have to compete with other drivers to offer the biggest take to the owners so they can get the vehicle for the day. So they are out there hustling, you know the much praised Juggad tactics. In their mind they are trying to maximize the pay off rather than provide a service for a price. In essence they are gambling often with your life.

The real crack down should be on the vehicle owners. They are the ones who encourage this free for all. Our economy is now big enough that professional auto companies should be encouraged with licenses and regulation.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 02 Feb 2011 07:08

The Chennai autos are mostly owned by politicians or policemen and the auto drivers usually hire the autos from them on a fixed daily payout to the owners. The rude behaviour, the refusal to use the meter, and the exhorbitant rates are condoned by the powerful bosses and nobody takes any action. In Chennai, we need something like the land reforms to break this phenomenon.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 02 Feb 2011 07:52

A few years ago, there were several complaints from Mumbaikars about autorickshaw meters being rigged to run faster than normal. Mumbai Police had thereafter come out with a phone number which citizens could call just to report the license plate number of any rickshaw whose meter they found suspicious so that the traffic police would look into it. I think this eventually scared the auto-drivers enough to stop doing it.
Besides Police enforcement, I believe market forces play a role as well. Mumbai is overflowing with rickshaws. If a rickshaw driver doesn't agree to the rate on the tariff card, people have other rickshaws to choose from. It's somewhat like high/adequate supply keeping prices in check.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 02 Feb 2011 13:01

This is OT but..

I just have to laugh. I can seen most people here have never run into a Chennai Auto Wallah.

Like a complaint number will stop them.

There are waaay too many Auto's in Chennai. Like 40,000 +. You can see them parked in their hundreds on every street, blocking cars, buses and pedestrians. I have often fumed as 10-20 of them will randomly show up and park in front of my dad's house to enjoy the shade of the trees, throw their beedis everywhere and even their leftover lunch, pee on the walls, etc. Things are so bad that people prefer to walk rather than deal with them. One of the worst things Amma did was to encourage them to unionize in the early 90's. The idea was that this would force them to clean up their act, sadly NOT! Every Auto in Chennai has a colored medallion with a number on it that identifies the union. These unions are politically connected and have carved out different territories and routes. Not unlike the Mafia. If you decline an auto all he has to do is stand there and no one else will pick you up! Not only that, the others will stop and abuse you for 'wasting' their time. You the passenger are after all invading 'their' territory.

I wanted to laugh at the Kolkatta share auto suggestion. Yes! we also have a share auto and I had one of my worst experiences in one. I made the cardinal mistake of not making sure I was in a share Auto when I got in. Before I knew it there were 6 other passengers in one Auto with me! All 6'5" of me. I want to curse in Tamil but thought better of it... Under no circumstances do you use a share Auto in Chennai.

Almost every time you get to you destination and there is big argument about the fare you agreed on. He swears it is more and starts to abuse you, even with ladies around in the most filthy language.

And under NO circumstance do you get stranded at Central station without transport to pick you up. Those Auto wallahs are the worst of the worst. Not above separating you from your luggage as many unfortunate passengers have found. It not for nothing that Chennai's most sadistic and cruel serial killer, Auto Shankar, was an Auto driver.

I can only hope that once the Metro system is up and running these parasites will face some real competition, maybe even go extinct.

Take a look at some of the complaints here. Poor guy.

http://www.consumercomplaints.in/compla ... 77033.html

On 4th May 09, I took an auto from T Nagar (Kumaran stores, Panagal park) to Chinmaya Nagar. The auto driver demanded Rs. 120 but I told him that I have always given Rs. 100/= for this distance. At first he refused, then he bargained for Rs. 110/ = and finally when I tried to hire another driver, he said that he will take us to Chinmaya nagar for Rs. 100/=. My mother, my daughter and I boarded the auto. He drove in a very rash manner and I cautioned him on this. My mother was also not happy with this. He did not pay any heed to our advice.

At Vadapalani, AVM theatre, I asked him to turn right and asked him to go through Saligramam because that is the common route that all auto drivers take. At this point, he started shouting and said, "You asked me to take you to Chinmaya Nagar and I will only come there". " You people cannot change it in the middle". We (both myself and my mother) tried to reason with him saying that this is the route that all auto wallas take and we have not asked anything different.

Then he started using foul language and hurled abuses at me and my mother who is a retired bank employee.We had no other option but to ask him to leave us at Saligramam itself because we found his language unbearable and I was close to tears. Even my mother was provoked and started shouting at him. After we got down from the auto at Saligramam, I handed him over the Rs. 100 note that I had promised. He took it and started giving me the change. I was so bugged by his behaviour that I did not accept the change.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 02 Feb 2011 14:44

^^^
Chennai auto wallahs are notorious for their bad behaviour. In Chennai I always prefer to book a call taxi, even if it costs me more. At least I don't get to deal with the auto wallahs.

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 03 Feb 2011 00:14

So I was absolutely right in calling them a mafia then. The fact that they basically work for the local politicians and senior police officials has made them fearless. I am not from Delhi/Chennai but whenever I am in these cities, even I prefer calling the radio cab than haggling with the autos. In Delhi, I wouldn't be surprised if they've gone back to the old days of charging arbitrary rates now that the CWG games are over.

Even Mumbai autos/taxis are losing their sheen. Haggling on the rate is definitely not an issue, but you can only get them to go anywhere you want to go if THEY want to go there as well.

Oh no Theo, this is not off-topic at all! after all, we are discussing mass 'rapid' transit. In the absence of real options, these are what most of us get!

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 03 Feb 2011 09:47

Have recently returned from a 3 week trip which included 2 days in Delhi.I had kept 1 full day aside to visit the National Museum which I had been putting off for years.

Rode on the Delhi Metro extensively during peak and off peak times. The metro was crush packed both times. The stations are clean, security is crisp and efficient and the trains are spit polish clean. Marshall's on platforms are present to assist with boarding during peak times.

However, my observation is that Delhi metro users are yet to reach the level of sophistication long honed and practiced by Mumbai local users. In Mumbai there are defined underwritten protocols to ease entry/exit from trains.

In Mumbai, people alighting at distant stations work their way away from the door into the seating aisles and gradually make their way to the doors as their station approaches. At each station,people at the door en-masse compress themselves to create a narrow but usable corridor to facilitate alighting and boarding.

In Delhi, I found, people getting of at distant stations standing like fixed rocks in the doorways. Requests to move to allow me to alight were often met with a blank stare and then standing aside ever so slowly.

Now, if only Pune could get its Metro act going. From a live-ability and lifestyle point of view, the city is a shade of what it was a decade ago.

added later:

Pune actually has a Comprehensive Mobility Plan (CMP) study conducted by Wilbur Smith and IL&FS in 2008 http://www.punecorporation.org/pmcwebn/ ... 0Plan.aspx. The total cost of implementation is pegged at circa 22,000 crores spread over 22 years.

As part of the CMP, a detailed metro plan has also been prepared and is available on the website.

All the above are necessary and should be pursued. However, existing facilities are not been used optimally due to lack of enforcement (hawkers & violation of driving and parking rules). There is where the low hanging fruit is and the PMC must ensure existing infrastructure is being use to the fullest while pursuing the master plan.

Also, chanced upon Nagrik Chetna Manch http://www.nagrikchetna.com/index.asp . They seem to be run mostly by ex fauji's and have some creditable wins so far.