Indian Cotton, Tea, Perfumes and modern history

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Indian Cotton, Tea, Perfumes and modern history

Post by ramana »

Cotton has had a very under appreciated role in shaping modern history. It has led to the Industrial revolution in the West. It created the mill towns of New England. What is not understood is the connection between cotton prices and the US Civil War and why the prices went up in the first place. We get an idea from Parag Tope's book Operation Red Lotus.

Here are some links on importance of Cotton:
In 1858 Senator James Henry Hammond of South Carolina replied to Senator William H. Seward of New York:

"Without the firing of a gun, without drawing a sword, should they [Northerners] make war upon us [Southerners], we could bring the whole world to our feet. What would happen if no cotton was furnished for three years? . . England would topple headlong and carry the whole civilized world with her. No, you dare not make war on cotton! No power on earth dares make war upon it. Cotton is King."

Hammond, like most white Southerners, believed that cotton ruled not just in the South but in the United States and the world. Many economists agreed. In 1855, David Christy entitled his influential hook Cotton Is King. Cotton indeed drove the economy of the South, affected its social structure, and, during the Civil War, dominated international relations of the Confederacy through "cotton diplomacy."
......
By 1860, cotton ruled the South, which annually exported two-thirds of the world supply of the "white gold." Cotton ruled the West and Midwest because each year these sections sold $30 million worth of food supplies to Southern cotton producers. Cotton ruled the Northeast because the domestic textile industry there produced $100 million worth of cloth each year. In addition, the North sold to the cotton-growing South more than $150 million worth of manufactured goods every year, and Northern ships transported cotton and cotton products worldwide.
http://www.civilwarhome.com/kingcotton.htm


and
Cotton and US Civil War

http://mshistory.k12.ms.us/articles/291 ... -civil-war

The diplomatic strategy was designed to coerce Great Britain, the most powerful nation in the world, into an alliance with the Confederacy by cutting off the supply of cotton, Britain’s essential raw material for its dominant textile industry. Before the American Civil War, cotton produced in the American South had accounted for 77 percent of the 800 million pounds of cotton used in Great Britain. After Britain had officially declared its neutrality in the American war in May 1861, the president of the Confederacy, Jefferson Davis – a Mississippi planter, Secretary of War under U.S. President Franklin Pierce, and former U. S. senator – strongly supported what became known as King Cotton diplomacy. Confederate leaders believed an informal embargo on cotton would lead Great Britain into formal recognition of the Confederacy and to diplomatic intervention with other European countries on behalf of the South.

To begin King Cotton diplomacy, some 2.5 million bales of cotton were burned in the South to create a cotton shortage. Indeed, the number of southern cotton bales exported to Europe dropped from 3 million bales in 1860 to mere thousands. The South, however, had made a pivotal miscalculation. Southern states had exported bumper crops throughout the late 1850s and in 1860, and as a result, Great Britain had a surplus of cotton. Too, apprehension over a possible conflict in America had caused the British to accumulate an inventory of one million bales of cotton prior to the Civil War. The cotton surplus delayed the “cotton famine” and the crippling of the British textile industry until late 1862. But when the cotton famine did come, it quickly transformed the global economy. The price of cotton soared from 10 cents a pound in 1860 to $1.89 a pound in 1863-1864. Meanwhile, the British had turned to other countries that could supply cotton, such as India, Egypt, and Brazil, and had urged them to increase their cotton production. Although the cotton embargo failed, Britain would become an economic trading partner.
.....
America regained its sought-after position as the world’s leading producer of cotton. By 1870, sharecroppers, small farmers, and plantation owners in the American south had produced more cotton than they had in 1860, and by 1880, they exported more cotton than they had in 1860. For 134 years, from 1803 to 1937, America was the world’s leading cotton exporter.

from: Economics of the Civil War

Image

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I think the price of cotton rose after 1857 and the profits spurred the South to secede from the Union.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by jamwal »

Cotton lost much of it's importance after invention of man made fibers..methinks
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by Pranav »

Another interesting commodity to study would be Opium.
Cotton lost much of it's importance after invention of man made fibers..methinks
Generally, commodities go lower down on the value-chain as societies become more advanced.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by ramana »

Jamwal, Its coming back. The reason why I started this thread is to understand the role of cotton in the EI company recovering its funds to fight the 1857 War by letting the price of cotton rise at that time. hisotry is repeating itself as India plans to withdraw from the world cotton market after 140 years and this will have its own dynamics on the world as it creates new wealth and losses.

Pranav Lets stick to cotton here for a reason.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by saip »

jamwal wrote:Cotton lost much of it's importance after invention of man made fibers..methinks
Cotton still commands a premium when compared to man made fibres. Generally speaking 100% cotton fabrics are priced higer.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by amdavadi »

India withdrawing from world market means India wont export cotton? what about exporters who are in business & have 2-5 years deal with walmart,target etc etc?
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by Raghavendra »

How India Clothed the World: The World of South Asian Textiles, 1500-1850 (Global Economic History Series)
After the conquest of Bengal and the acquisition of extensive tax
revenues between 1757 and 1765, the export of raw cotton to China
increasingly came to be regarded as central to the East India Company’s
entire system for remitting monies from India to Britain through
Canton and its rapidly expanding tea trade with London.


One of the Company’s primary annual objectives came to be the regular provision
of the substantial liquid funds that were needed by their supercargoes
at Canton for the purchase of the large quantities of tea that were
in high demand in Britain, Europe, and the Atlantic world. It was to
be raw cotton together with illegal shipments of opium that helped to
generate these funds. Consequently, exports of cotton from India to
China can be seen to have increased more or less in line with the expan-
sion of the tea trade between Canton and London, and this intercon-
nected growth served profoundly to alter long-established patterns of
trade both within and beyond the Indian Ocean region. The British
were not simply engaged in bilateral trade between India and China
and, as Ashin Das Gupta put it, the particular form taken by their com-
mercial expansion enabled them to break out “from the folds of the
Indian structure [of overseas trade]”.
For ramana eyes onlee, no wikileaking allowed

Code: Select all

http://www.mediafire.com/?nryz7x796b0znnr
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by ramana »

I have read that book some time ago. Thanks others can benefit especially those how think Terelyene is all that takes!

amadavadi, The rains have destoyed much of the crop. The mills/weavers are sauffering. If exprots are allowed it will devastate Indian rural economy. Read the Econ Times blog where the subject is discussed. The exporters haven't procured the cotton they would need to fulfill the contracts anyway. They say this is unheard of in 140 years.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by ramana »

X-posted from Prespectives thread which kicked started my idea for this thread.....

Econ Times:

India could exit world cotton market
The smart thing would be to forget about penalizing exporters. And forget about exports as well. It is a pity rain played spoilsport for cotton exporters. But they have had their chance. The government allowed them to go ahead and export, braving the fury and protest from domestic spinners and weavers. Now in all fairness it is time the domestic industry got reasonably sufficient quantities of raw material, without the constant threat of shipments hanging over their heads.

And farmers won’t be hurt either. If the crop is indeed low, and the CAB will check on that, then they are holding a golden egg. Most have sold off their crop any way because it has low shelf life this season. If the harvest improves and a genuine surplus re-emerges, exports can always be resumed.

Of course India's exit will drive the world cotton market ballistic. The highest prices in 140 years - that's as long as cotton has been traded - are refusing to climb down. The ban on cotton yarn has already kicked up world prices. By barring free trade of the physical commodity, India is clearly exporting textile inflation to cool its own WPI index. That may seem a complete waste of opportunity to Indian spinners and exporters. Their only consolation is that in government and in business, nothing is forever.
140 years ago was the 1857 War of Independence and its aftermath!
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by ramana »

Wiki On New York Cotton Exchange

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Cotton_Exchange

Not location: India House New York. Started in 1870.
New York Cotton Exchange (NYCE) was a commodities exchange founded in 1870 by a group of one hundred cotton brokers and merchants at 1 Hanover Square (aka India House) in New York City.

Image

1 Hanover House, New York. Home of the New York Cotton Exchange. aka India House.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by jambudvipa »

Ramanaji thanks for briniging the cotton issue to the fore.

here is an old firangi pamphlet advocating growing cotton in India to contuerbalance US civil war effects.

http://rapidshare.com/files/436134251/a ... _india.pdf
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by SwamyG »

Few weeks back, somebody was talking about Cotton on CNBC; I did not pay attention. Wow, did not know things are getting this interesting.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by ramana »

BRF always has to think deep and deeper.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by ramana »

A Hindu article on new form of cotton fabric being developed in India.

Malkha Project
But the origins of Malkha, a combination of the words ‘malmal' and ‘khadi', are in the humble countryside. The cloth is hand woven in nine different weaving units; four in Andhra Pradesh and one each in Maharashtra, Orissa, Karnataka, Kerala and Tamil Nadu. It started as a pilot project supported by the Union Ministry for Rural Development, says L. Kannan, of the Fractal Foundation, who designed the low-cost, less energy intensive machines for the pre-spinning stage. “The usual methods of handling cotton fibre are extremely damaging. We avoid that by being gentler with the cotton. That gives Malkha a very distinct appeal,” he explains.

Chain of production


Malkha is based on the concept of decentralised cotton yarn (DCY), which links small cotton farmers to hand weavers, by breaking up the large capital intermediate pre-spinning and spinning processes and returning them to the proximate rural locations of cotton growing and cloth weaving. The entire production chain from raw material to finished product is in the hands of small producers, according to Uzramma, the main motivator for this project. DCY has the advantage of being small in scale and so it can potentially be managed and owned by the producers. The electronic pre-spinning Gramaspinner technology, which is specifically designed for DCY, reduces energy use and scale of operation, and can handle different types of cotton. By doing away with baling, unbaling and blow room it saves substantial energy. It enables cotton from the field (after the simple ginning stage) to be processed on a small scale. The demand for the cloth has been growing and people are willing to pay a little more for Malkha, says Kannan. “We have been working primarily with a focus on rural non-farm employment using local artisanal skills,” he adds. The idea is that each village has a unit that works with weavers and will eventually become self-sustaining. The yarn is given to local artisans for weaving and dyeing. Once the operations stabilise, the idea is to have a worker based entity. For instance the Chirala unit is entirely self managed and now owned by the group of pre-spinning operators. The hardest part as always is the selling, he points out, adding that it was challenging to market anything since you need an entrepreneurial mindset. That's the kind of challenge that Uzramma, who has been working on cotton issues earlier with Dastkar Andhra and later with the Decentralized Cotton Yarn Trust, has been good at. With her long experience and knowledge of not only the history of cotton but also marketing it, Uzramma brings to Malkha the much needed touch of promoting the cloth in the right places. It is also the fabric's appeal that attracts designers. For Mayank Mansingh Kaul, it is the texture, where every strand is visible; while, for d'Ascoli, it is the material's provenance. Aneeth has always been using traditional textiles, which she weaves herself, and Malkha was a ready-made attraction.
...
What is needed is to create fashion trend and have people promote it.

Anyone recall stories of Dacca muslin that could pass/pull thru a ring!
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by Rahul M »

ramana wrote:.....
Anyone recall stories of Dacca muslin that could pass/pull thru a ring!
the legend says that one full saree could be folded inside one matchbox !
apparently only weavers below twenty years could weave such fine muslin because the eye loses its sensitivity beyond that age due to strain. the britishers cut-off the thumbs of all weavers in weaver villages to stop a centuries old Indian tradition competing against their mills, and they succeeded. the process is lost now.
And it will not be amiss to set out the whole of the voyage from Egypt, now that reliable knowledge of it is for the first time accessible.It is an important subject, in view of the fact that in no year does India absorb less than fifty million sesterces of our empire's wealth, sending back merchandise to be sold with us at a hundred times its prime cost.
pliny the elder on roman trade with India.

one of the costliest of the trade items was muslin.

____________
excellent thread btw !
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by ramana »

All try to read the book posted by Raghavendra.
RahulM, Also note that Indian cotton is short staple that is coarse yet the Dacca weavers had such fine product. The link on Malkha gives an idea how. Its the processing by hand instead of machines that allows the softer cloth to be produced.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by SwamyG »

Why did India not make progress on the hand loom? Why did fire and steam not creep into the minds?
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by surinder »

Is the story of thumb cutting of muslin cloth makers true?
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by Rahul M »

most likely. I've heard it from elders who hailed from those parts and also read it in numerous places.
unfortunately can't recall a single one at the moment. may be b'ji can help.

you will find many mainstream references though.
I found this. http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... -fine-yarn
The British systematically destroyed the Indian handloom sector, even torturing master weavers and cutting off their thumbs (this happened to many muslin weavers in Bengal), so that British-made cotton cloth from their mills would find a good market in India
happily enough, seems I was wrong about it being lost ! :D

Image
The forgotten art of the fine weave, which had once made Bengal muslin worth much more than its weight in gold, has been revived and is already catching the imagination of top fashion designers. Kalna, a small township in Burdwan about 125 km northwest of Kolkata, is cradling this resurgence, thanks largely to the efforts of one master weaver and help from government agencies like the Textile Ministry’s Weavers’ Service Centre, the Crafts Council of India and the state handloom commissioner.

The 500-count yarn—the finest hand-spun in the world now—from kapas cotton that is being woven at Kalna now has won accolades and awards for the small group of weavers of the town who’ve, through a combination of technical skills and innovation, invented a spinning machine that churns out the super-fine thread. The muslin that’s being produced is so fine that when wet and laid over a patch of grass, it would be difficult to point out. The finest muslin sari from Kalna, for instance, weighs a hundred grams and fits comfortably into a small coconut shell.
still some way to go but heartening nevertheless.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by saip »

surinder wrote:Is the story of thumb cutting of muslin cloth makers true?
When in school, I read this in the text books but ofcourse I dont know if this is true or not. Could be just figuritative way of saying.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by saip »

amdavadi wrote:India withdrawing from world market means India wont export cotton? what about exporters who are in business & have 2-5 years deal with walmart,target etc etc?
They are talking of not exporting cotton NOT textiles. Ban on cotton exports will hurt Pakistan big time as there is a shortage of cotton crop this year (with floods and all that) and will hurt their exports. But I did hear from a source that Walmart and others gave a price increase to some of the textile manufacturers from Pak when they begged.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by surinder »

I have also heard the thumb cutting thing since childhood. It could be part of oral history, which usually is true.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by Rahul M »

saip wrote:
surinder wrote:Is the story of thumb cutting of muslin cloth makers true?
When in school, I read this in the text books but ofcourse I dont know if this is true or not. Could be just figuritative way of saying.
oral tradition gives no indication that it was anything but true and the british were certainly happy enough to torture the 'natives' under any pretext. most importantly, fine muslin was a luxury product and there was no mill made cloth that could match it quality during that time. it is difficult to see how it could have been destroyed figuratively when they didn't have any competing product.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by vera_k »

It could also be the conspiracy theory du jour of the time used for mobilising the populace against the Brits.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by Rahul M »

unless you have some evidence to suggest the same I am intrigued why you think so ? I find no basis to explain away instances of mass torture strongly documented in oral tradition as 'conspiracy theory'. may be you would also like to explain how this craft suddenly disappeared all of a sudden ? or is it that fine muslin itself is just a story made up by conspiracy theorists (all Indian no doubt) to make the godly british look bad ?

what the british were doing in reality in front of everyone's eyes was cause enough for mobilising the people many times over without the need to invent lies. I've never heard that this particular incident was ever used as a rallying point either.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by vera_k »

The Wikileaks cable about Congress floating the CT about RSS killing Karkare set me thinking about how conspiracy theories are used in India by the rulers/political class. If such a conspiracy theory could be sustained in the 21st century, things would have been worse in earlier times.

Anyway, I found a source which says that the export market for Muslin was taken away by the imposition of a duty. That sounds like a plausible explanation for it dying out.

Muslin
The beautiful muslins of Dacca, which were famous when Babylonian and Assyrian kings ruled Western Asia, were among the wares first brought to England and America by the old East India Company. In 1787 the value of the imports of these muslins into England was estimated at $2,000,000 annually. But the invention of the spinning jenny in England was presently followed by a cry for protection by both the British and American manufacturers. A heavy duty was imposed on all India goods and the manufacture of Dacca muslins for export purposes was killed.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by niran »

SwamyG wrote:Why did India not make progress on the hand loom? Why did fire and steam not creep into the minds?
taxes, taxes and more taxes
the one who cultivated and produced raw material was taxed on the number of cocoons, then bales were taxed,
then the thread were taxed based on the length, transport tax, market tax chungi tax excise tax, tax on the transportation fee
and all these were supposed to be up front, unlike the payments for the products which was paid almost 7-9 months later
after deduction of taxes of course, i.e. make the product economically nonviable hence the word "got his thumb chopped off or
pait pe laat"
then there was this land act, where by Company bahadur would acquire prime agricultural land with just signing up some paper denying the locals the means even to grow something dissenter were brought in line with hangings, get the picture?
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by jambudvipa »

Gents,the thumb cutting incident is also mentioned in an account of William Bolt who was an english trader around that time.Check R C Dutts "Economic history of India" vol 1,pg 26 and 27.
Weavers, also, upon their inability to perform such agreements as have been forced upon them by tbe Company's agents, universally knowll in Bengal by the name of Mutchulcahs, have had their goods seized and sold on the spot to make
good the deficiency ; and the winders of raw silk, called sagoads, have been treated also with such injustice,
that instances have been known of their cutting off their thumbs to prevent their being forced to wind silk
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by Rahul M »

vera_k wrote:The Wikileaks cable about Congress floating the CT about RSS killing Karkare set me thinking about how conspiracy theories are used in India by the rulers/political class. If such a conspiracy theory could be sustained in the 21st century, things would have been worse in earlier times.

Anyway, I found a source which says that the export market for Muslin was taken away by the imposition of a duty. That sounds like a plausible explanation for it dying out.

Muslin
The beautiful muslins of Dacca, which were famous when Babylonian and Assyrian kings ruled Western Asia, were among the wares first brought to England and America by the old East India Company. In 1787 the value of the imports of these muslins into England was estimated at $2,000,000 annually. But the invention of the spinning jenny in England was presently followed by a cry for protection by both the British and American manufacturers. A heavy duty was imposed on all India goods and the manufacture of Dacca muslins for export purposes was killed.
the weavers and the villagers around them who continued the oral tradition were rulers/political class were they ? you are 'deciding' history based upon behaviours of today's DIE politicians. what lahori logic !
even worse, the tax theory doesn't make sense.
you say the market was taken away by imposition of duty, taken away but replaced with what ? there was no comparable product existing that I know of which could take its place. even at the time, the price was high enough for it to be irrelevant to those who could afford it, with or without a duty.

thanks for the nugget, j'ji but that too is probably a conspiracy theory by the crooked natives.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by vera_k »

Rahul M wrote: even worse, the tax theory doesn't make sense.
you say the market was taken away by imposition of duty, taken away but replaced with what ? there was no comparable product existing that I know of which could take its place. even at the time, the price was high enough for it to be irrelevant to those who could afford it, with or without a duty.
It makes sense that people would substitute cheap mill made Muslin (even at lower quality) for expensive hand made cloth. This is seen in operation today with the textile industry moving from country to country seeking out the cheapest source of labour.
Rahul M wrote:the weavers and the villagers around them who continued the oral tradition were rulers/political class were they ? you are 'deciding' history based upon behaviours of today's DIE politicians. what lahori logic !
The common people seem to be susceptible to conspiracy theories, that is why the rulers use them, and why the theories survive.

I have no problem believing that the Brits did cut thumbs, but I'd hesitate to repeat such information without sources to back it up.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by SwamyG »

niran wrote:
SwamyG wrote:Why did India not make progress on the hand loom? Why did fire and steam not creep into the minds?
taxes, taxes and more taxes
I disagree with your explanation. The Europeans came only in the 17th century; we were working with cotton for centuries before the Islamic hordes attacked us. We were one of the pioneers in metallurgy....we did not make technological leap for some reason.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by saip »

Europe made the tech leap during the industrial revolution. Is there any country that was colonized during industrial revolution which is an advanced country today?
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by niran »

SwamyG wrote: I disagree with your explanation. The Europeans came only in the 17th century; we were working with cotton for centuries before the Islamic hordes attacked us. We were one of the pioneers in metallurgy....we did not make technological leap for some reason.
in those days it took ~9months for plain white Dhoti from ordering to reach the hands of the consumers,14 months for a Banarsi
saree, ~2years for Muslin
there was a tradition for each family to have regular weavers as retainers, all family members were to have
fixed amount of clothing per year usually during Holi Deepavali Chath puja Marriage ceremonies. all retainers
were given some amount of land animals and grains they would earn cash from selling excess clothing to those who
could not afford to retain them, this system was enough, no one went naked, people were satisfied and content
and since "need is the precursor of inventions" there was no need to do more hence no invention.

Then the British came, they levied heavy taxes, selling to natives was made illegal, weavers could only sell their produts
to a designated agent who in turn would buy cheap, pay late, conveniently record books were lost/destroyed in monsoon
or fire therefore no payment hanging was meted to ones who complain about the integrity of sahab bahadur

Kallu is a weaver, he is under debt for unpaid taxes to company bahadur, native lords are helpless, his ledgers was washed
away in floods so the sahab say through his native chaprasi he has to feed his family, his earlier retainership has been rendered illegal, what Kallu should do?
- stop being weaver and convert to labor
- keep weaving and incur more taxes and nonpayment and jail and hanging
- jump off the nearest cliff
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by ShivaS »

There was series on America one should watch Slavey and the growth of Cotton cultivation in the south and how the prosperty of south was linked to cotton exports and indentured labour.

Pick of the season indeed
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by jamwal »

Ermm..enough about history. Paki behaviour of Brits can be discussed elsewhere. Let's focus on present.

China and US produce more cotton than India. How can curbs on export of cotton by India cause a major crisis ? Whatever little I understand of the issue, it's just a temporary phase that'll blow off in time. Ban on export is not permanent either.
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by ShivaS »

cost of production is not the same, Egypt also produces a huge chunk of cotton.
The cooton varieties are aslo different (at least till Monsanto entered) our is short staple where as Egyptian is long staple..
actual export ban helps US and other countries as it increases the prices in the commodity market but the export from India (as finished) product might be advantaegous to India...

aahh
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by SwamyG »

niran wrote:all retainers were given some amount of land animals and grains they would earn cash from selling excess clothing to those who could not afford to retain them, this system was enough, no one went naked, people were satisfied and content
and since "need is the precursor of inventions" there was no need to do more hence no invention.
While I agree, partially, with your explanation of people being content that positioned them in a position where they did not desire produce material in vast quantities, you are forgetting one BIG thing - India, especially the Southern Peninsula, was part of major global trade.
niran
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by niran »

SwamyG wrote: you are forgetting one BIG thing - India, especially the Southern Peninsula, was part of major global trade.
of course, but the trading commodity was Black pepper and other spices Silk and Muslin were traded in low quantities.
Pratyush
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by Pratyush »

From the economics times

China and the cotton blame game
ramana
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Re: Cotton and modern history

Post by ramana »

Niran, Then how did India cloth the world? And why did Pliny the Elder whine about the Indian cloth? Both the examples are in the very thread.

Enough history guys. Now that we have the background can we see how the dies roll as India takes steps to protect its people?
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