Solar energy in India

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Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 23 Jan 2012 05:03

I'm conflicted about allowing China imports. It is cheap and makes the Solar pricing easier.

But Indian manufactures need to get scale and costs down to that level. Just like Suzlon did in wind power. I think we can get cheap. Jupiter solar Kolkata is supplying for the panels for Solaires Rs 7.50/kw plant. Vikram Solar is apparently down to $1.20 per watt and working on getting cheaper. Moser Baer needs to get a way to sub $1 per watt.

Keep in mind that panel manufacture is completely commodetized, so India can always buy the turn key line that China uses and get similar costs.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby vishvak » 23 Jan 2012 18:11

Theo_Fidel wrote:I'm conflicted about allowing China imports. It is cheap and makes the Solar pricing easier.

But Indian manufactures need to get scale and costs down to that level. Just like Suzlon did in wind power. I think we can get cheap. Jupiter solar Kolkata is supplying for the panels for Solaires Rs 7.50/kw plant. Vikram Solar is apparently down to $1.20 per watt and working on getting cheaper. Moser Baer needs to get a way to sub $1 per watt.

Keep in mind that panel manufacture is completely commodetized, so India can always buy the turn key line that China uses and get similar costs.

There is also a question of how can someone trust those who form cartels in Energy markets for decades just because Chinese goods. The line manufacturing buying - is it independent or there are as usual conditions to use solar energy per whims of cartels?

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 23 Jan 2012 21:36

vishvak wrote:There is also a question of how can someone trust those who form cartels in Energy markets for decades just because Chinese goods. The line manufacturing buying - is it independent or there are as usual conditions to use solar energy per whims of cartels?


The main cartel, if there is one, is for poly silicon. This is a high technology manufacturing process, called Seimens process and only a couple of companies make the equipment. Getting high purity 99.99% silicon is expensive though solar could potential run just fine on 99% pure UMG silicon.

After that everything is completely commodetized with dozens of companies offering manufacturing lines from 10MW to 400 MW to a recent 1000MW per annum line. Companies plan on creating 5000MW per annum lines by 2020 or so. That is when costs will decline to $0.50 per watt. Esp. since companies now have pathways to $2 per kg UMG silicon and even $10 per kg Seimens silicon.

The Moores law for solar is that every doubling in capacity reduces cost by 20%. Right now doubling happens every 2 years. No one sees there being a problem with this till 2020.

If you look at a typical 230 watt panel that now costs $200 to make, there is no material reason this can not be sub $100 panel. In Walmart you can buy a 32" LCD TV for $199 on sale. An LCD TV is way more complicated and intensive and delicate to make compared to a straight forward PV panel.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 29 Jan 2012 04:56

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 54928.html

India is setting up a company with initial capital of 20 billion rupees ($405.6 million) to build federal solar projects and help the country reach a target of 20 gigawatts of solar energy capacity by 2022, a top government official said.


http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/com ... 840386.ece

Gujarat says no to time extension for solar power developers

Image

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Prem » 31 Jan 2012 01:12

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 679250.cms
Government agency to develop solar atlas of India to help development of solar power projects
CHENNAI: When India's solar power developers want to choose a site for their project, they usually turn to NASA and its satellite images to identify the best locations.
This is because even though India is endowed with abundant sunshine, it is vital to know the exact spots to locate projects so that they become viable. The US space agency's radiation maps help them do this, but they are not quite adequate. Now, an obscure government agency based in Chennai is promising to change that. It hopes to deliver within two years a state-of-the-art solar atlas of India that could clear a major hurdle obstructing speedy development of solar power projects.
The atlas, which will identify the solar hotspots where the sun's radiation has optimum intensity for power generation, will enable developers to accurately pinpoint locations for projects, according to the Centre for Wind Energy Technology, which is creating the database. The expectation is that project developers, armed with the information, will be able to predict the plant's output with reasonable accuracy. Also, they can make a better choice of which solar technology (photovoltaic, solar thermal or any other) to use. "Today we use old NASA data," said Vish Palekar, the chief executive officer of Mahindra Solar. His company just commissioned its first project, a 5 mw unit in Rajasthan, and plans to add 100 mw in about three years.
"To have info mapped in India with local conditions will help us further optimise prediction. The entire ecosystem, with solar atlas mapping, will see companies like ours getting aggressive in future," he added.

INDIA INC GIANTS EYEING SOLAR PIE
Sun-soaked India, which is chronically energy deficient, has drawn up a plan to generate 20,000 mw of solar power by 2022. To realise this goal, the Centre has created a national solar mission. The national solar mission includes financial incentives and subsidies to attract investment in this form of clean energy. Out of India's installed power generation capacity of some 1.9 lakh mw, solar energy currently accounts for just over 100 mw. But projects with many times that capacity are being planned, with prominent business houses such as the Tatas, Reliance and the Mahindras as well as smaller developers vying for a piece of the solar pie.
"A solar atlas will be very useful. But accuracy depends a lot on how data is being collected - via satellites or combined with ground-based measurements. If there's a 10% gap between actual radiation and what data shows, the energy output can fall by almost 20%," said James V Abraham, managing director & CEO of Sunborne Energy Technologies, a Haryana-based company backed by private equity fund General Catalyst Partners.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Vipul » 31 Jan 2012 21:05

Gujarat govt finds getting rid of excess power difficult.

Already a power surplus state, Gujarat government's much tom-tommed campaign to further augment the state's power generation capacity through solar energy, too, is facing a roadblock. Well-placed Sachivalaya sources said, with another 578.40 MW of solar power all set to be added by end of this month to the overall power capacity of Gujarat of 13,314 MW, the state government doesn't know where to use it.

In fact, the state's march towards solar power will not end this month end with 578.40 MW. "By the middle of this year, we will have, in all, nearly 1,000 MW of solar power plants, highest anywhere in the country. They will be ready for operation within the next two to six months," a senior official said. Gujarat, a power surplus state by 2,000 MW, is already finding it difficult to sell the traditionally generated power it produces to the national grid and other states, and now solar power is being added to the list.

Out of 170.40 MW of power plants which were commissioned by December 2011, the state-owned Gujarat Energy Transmission Corporation (GETCO), which must use up all the solar power, is unable to evacuate more than five per cent of power. While the official view is, this is a "temporary problem" due to a technical snag which will sorted out soon, insiders suspect this is connected to the "problem of plenty" in the power sector.

Indeed, the state government wants the Government of India (GoI) to share the burden of extra solar power to be produced here by making other states buy solar power as a promotional activity. "We want the Centre to back our solar mission by buying up beyond 500 MW produced in Gujarat", the senior official underlined.

Already, solar power is proving a drain on coffers. For every unit that the state's large number of solar power plants produce, the state government signed power purchase agreements (PPAs) to buy power at the rate of Rs 15 per unit. The only precondition was, the power plants should be commissioned on or before January 28, 2012.

After the deadline of January 28, the state government is under pressure from entrepreneurs to continue providing the same rate, instead of going to Gujarat Electricity Regulatory Commission (GERC) for reducing it below Rs 10. "To promote unconventional energy, the state must give more time to entrepreneurs to commission projects instead of discouraging them," sources in Solar Energy Association in Gujarat opined.

The top solar entrepreneurs who have represented for giving more time include Moser Baer, Lanco, Tata Power Renewable, Sun Edison, Alex Astral, Surana Telecom, to name a few.

"As of today, the state government is adamant. It wants GERC to bring down the rate for buying solar power to Rs 7.49 per unit. This would discourage those coming to invest in the sector," a source added.

A reduced rate for those commissioning the project is not the only penalty the so-called defaulters may have to face. A senior official said, "Those who fail to commission by March 31, 2012 will have to pay up Rs 10,000 per MW per day of delay. Those who revoke the guarantee will to pay Rs 50 lakh per MW. There is no question of going back on any of these issues."

Total number of solar power plants to be 'ready for use' by January 28, 2012: 54

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 02 Feb 2012 04:57

http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... on/463514/

CSE probe details alleged rigging of bids to favour Lanco, shell firms ministry says will examine evidence, Lanco denies CSE allegations

It said it had already given the information to NTPC Vidyut Vyapar Nigam, which conducted the bidding process. Further justifying its role, it said: “It is important to note that the bidders who Lanco supported were able to bid at one of the lowest tariffs (rates), as Lanco provided them the latest technology and complete EPC (engineering-procurement-construction) solutions for the projects. As the power purchase agreements for these projects are for 25 years, Lanco’s equity participation in these projects also brings confidence to the bidder to use our technology and EPC solutions in arriving at such a competitive tariff.”

However, CSE asserts that Lanco has 99 per cent ownership in these companies through preferential shares. Not desirable because it was smothering competitors and usurping a whole new market, creating a monopoly, said Narain.

The companies had sprouted just days before the deadline for the bids last year, and all of them had no assets to show for net worth. They depended on shares transferred by Lanco to qualify for the bidding process, says Bhushan. The directors of some of the companies were employees of Lanco, with two of the directors found to be teenaged children of a Lanco worker, identified by CSE through their Facebook accounts.

The National Solar Mission guidelines require that the bidding company had to be worth Rs 15 crore for setting up a solar photovoltaic project and Rs 220 crore for a solar thermal project. Lanco holds shares worth Rs 15.2 crore in each PV project and Rs 221.7 crore in each solar thermal project, which matches almost exactly the net worth needed for the projects, says CSE.

The guidelines also allowed one company to bid for and win only one 100 Mw solar thermal and one five-Mw solar PV project. Of the 1,000 Mw of solar power that was to be generated in the first phase of the mission, Lanco has bagged 235 Mw of the allocation and an assured revenue of Rs 13,000 crore, based on the guaranteed feed-in rate being paid to solar projects in the first phase, says CSE.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Vasu » 02 Feb 2012 11:03

Ah, another business run by a Politician. So what else is new?

Lanco Infratech, the flagship company of Lanco Group, was floated in 1986 by Rajagopal Lagadapati, Member of Parliament from Vijaywada, Andhra Pradesh. Lagadapati is Lanco’s chairperson and his brother Lagadapati Madhusudan Rao is executive chairperson. Lanco started with construction contracts and then ventured into infrastructure and power. It competes with Tata Power for the status of largest private power producer in India.

Source: DOWN TO EARTH

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Murugan » 02 Feb 2012 20:40

Out of 170.40 MW of power plants which were commissioned by December 2011, the state-owned Gujarat Energy Transmission Corporation (GETCO), which must use up all the solar power, is unable to evacuate more than five per cent of power. While the official view is, this is a "temporary problem" due to a technical snag which will sorted out soon, insiders suspect this is connected to the "problem of plenty" in the power sector.


Maharashtra is power-poor state. Barring areas from Mira road to Churchgate under BMC on Western Line and upto Powai/Kanjur Marg/Ghatkopar/Nahur section, many suburbs face 4-6 hours of daily load-shedding. Why just they cant buy from a reliable neighbour the excess power.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 02 Feb 2012 22:19

Transmission, credit and price.

Several sections of India are now power surplus. S.TN as well.
-----------------------------------

WRT LANCO I'm not too surprised. I had posted earlier that scale is everything in this business. Need atleast a 200MW project to be profitable. Looks like LANCO was doing exactly that. They accumulated a small chunk of projects in one village so they can use scale to drive down cost.

Of course they used the used open bid process so what is the problem. They followed the rules, don't see the problem here. The real problem is GOI's arcane restriction on getting really big players.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby member_21708 » 04 Feb 2012 23:28

Theo_Fidel wrote:Of course they used the used open bid process so what is the problem. They followed the rules, don't see the problem here. The real problem is GOI's arcane restriction on getting really big players.


Using benami companies, one person is trying to monopolize an entire sector while using tax payer money. flouting rules, stealing public funds, misrepresentation of company structure, these are the problems.

Sunny times for a Congress MP
A major private sector power company owned by a Congress MP from Andhra Pradesh has bagged about 40 per cent of the solar power projects auctioned by the central government in the first phase of Jawaharlal Nehru National Solar Mission in blatant violation of rules, claims a non-governmental organisation.

Lanco Infratech, a listed company, has bagged nine solar photovoltaic and solar thermal projects through seven front companies and two subsidiaries.

Of the projects to generate 620 MW, that were auctioned by the government in November 2010 in the first batch of the first phase of the project, Lanco bagged 235 MW, which goes completely against the rules set up by the government, shows an investigation carried out by Delhi-based Centre for Science and Environment.

But as per the guidelines of the Union Ministry of New and Renewable Resources, one company is allowed to bid for and win one 100-MW solar thermal and one 5-MW solar PV project – totaling projects of 105 MW.

Lanco Infratech is owned by Lagadapati Rajagopal, current Congress MP from Vijayawada and one of the richest MPs.

“This is the world's biggest publicly funded project. Not only consumers are paying for it, the Rajasthan government is giving land at throw away price. But public funds are cornered by one company,” alleged Chandra Bhusan, CSE deputy director general.

There are clearly established paper trails in the Union Corporate Affairs Ministry showing Lanco's link to at least two front companies – DDE Renewable Energy and Electromech Maritech. In other five cases, the coincidences are too many to call for an investigation from the government side.

However, neither MNRE nor NTPC Vidyut Vyapar Nigam Limited probed any of these strange coincidences.

A Lanco spokesperson would not respond to specific queries, but said the “allegations were not cross-checked with company and wrongly perceived.”

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/223 ... ss-mp.html

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 04 Feb 2012 23:41

vikramd wrote:Using benami companies, one person is trying to monopolize an entire sector while using tax payer money. flouting rules, stealing public funds, misrepresentation of company structure, these are the problems.


235 of 620 is 37 %. This is hardly a monopoly. It was an open bid so any company could have cut in front easily. Since then the government has auctioned another 350 MW and the big winners were separate public companies such as Welspunn and Mahindra so Lanco had a poor showing. So the actual percentage has gone down. Not only that the government expects to auction another 21,000 MW over the next 10 years. Hard to see a monopoly developing.

I don't see it. Every other company has created a separate 'Benami' entity to protect their assets if the contract goes South. There is a Bakery company, a thread spinning company and even a fashion design firm in the mix. All with Benami companies as permitted by the government itself. Many companies submitted a half dozen bids or more to try and win something. The only thing that mattered was the financial strength of the backers involved. Where were the rules flouted, public funds stolen and company structure misrepresented. The investigation merely examined the submitted documents to find the clearer picture. No doubt a court can rule on the situation but it seems like a storm in a teacup.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby member_21708 » 05 Feb 2012 00:03

even going by your calculations, 1/3rd of a market is now cornered by Lanco by flouting rules which were put in place to prevent such an outcome.
Theo_Fidel wrote:Where were the rules flouted,

as per the guidelines of the Union Ministry of New and Renewable Resources, one company is allowed to bid for and win one 100-MW solar thermal
and Lanco has now got 235 MW which clearly shows violation of rules

Theo_Fidel wrote:public funds stolen

each of these companies are been given subsidies[public funds] to setup these plants

Theo_Fidel wrote:and company structure misrepresented.

even basics like company addresses have not been disclosed by Lanco to hide their connections to benami companies

watch the video

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 05 Feb 2012 01:41

Let me first point out that this is the same CSE that hounded the GOI and Pepsi over pesticide residue which it then turned out was higher in drinking water. At which point their entire case fell apart.

They are making the same mistake here. The presenter clearly says the outcomes were excellent, pricing was world class and most of the companies involved were serious players. Then he goes on to say that guidelines may have been violated. These are just guidelines. The guidelines say many many things. For instance most of the product was supposed to be local but First Solar in the USA walked away with most of the PV contracts. Now the CSP plants are all buying their equipment from Germany and Austria, where are the guidelines now. So do we cancel everything on that basis.

The purpose of the small size was to get the ball rolling with a couple of dozen or so players, so future contracts would have a ready pool of bidders. Bidding has been wildly successful. There is now a pool of 500 or so companies that are bidding for these projects. So the spirit of the rules are being followed. So what exactly is CSE quibbling about. I suspect they are sensationalizing a part of the story and their entire thesis will fall apart when people ask who exactly lost money. The answer is, no one. This is the precise reason for open bids and violation of which caused 2G. Not Benami names or overbidding. In fact if you cancel Lanco as low bidder prices will increase as the higher bidder will be chosen. At this point the public really will lose money. Baffling.

---------------------------------------
Meanwhile LANCO has responded. They are the EPC for these projects and it absolutely is logical that they have a stake in these companies. Not just that the presence of the LANCO name gives these small companies credibility.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... r-purchase

In a statement made to TOI, A Narasimhan, senior vice-president (corporate communications), said, "Lanco Group has equity participation in few of the companies that have won the National Solar Mission projects in 2010." He claimed the equity participation was in within permissible level, and there was no illegality involved as reported by CSE.


NVVN provided a statement to TOI that read, "Further there is no bar in the guidelines for a company to be EPC contractor in more than one Project. After signing the power purchase agreements, NVVN noted that controlling shareholding in some of companies appeared to have changed which was in violation of guidelines. After obtaining legal opinion on the issue, NVVN issued notice of default to such companies. Although Companies stated that they had not violated the provisions of guidelines and it was a matter of interpretation. However in order to resolve the issue the concerned companies finally have rectified the default and the controlling share holding (equity+ preference share capital) of Promoters @ minimum of 51% is now with the companies with whom PPA have been signed."

But NVVN refused to reveal the name of the companies that were found to have violated the bidding rules or where it had got the legal advice from.

Lanco added, "The bidders who Lanco supported were able to bid at one of the lowest tariffs as Lanco provided them the latest technology and complete EPC solutions for the projects. As the power purchase agreement (PPA) for these projects are for a period of 25 years, Lanco's equity participation in these projects also brings confidence to the bidder to use our technology and EPC solutions in arriving at such a competitive tariff."

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby member_21708 » 05 Feb 2012 09:59

Theo_Fidel wrote:Let me first point out that this is the same CSE that hounded the GOI and Pepsi over pesticide residue which it then turned out was higher in drinking water. At which point their entire case fell apart.

CSE has a good reputation of fighting for public causes. CSE proved MNC's soft drink manufacturer's like Pepsi and Coke were not filtering water while processing it into soft drinks. Their stand was vindicated in the Delhi high court and by the JPC, JPC had this to say " the conclusions drawn by the Committee was as follows: - "1.96 The Committee, however, find that the CSE findings are correct on the presence of pesticide residues in carbonated water strictly in respect of the 36 samples of 12 brand names analySed by them. The Committee also appreciates the whistle blowing act of CSE in alerting the nation to an issue with major implications to food safety, policy formulation, regulatory framework and human and environmental health."

Theo_Fidel wrote:They are making the same mistake here. The presenter clearly says the outcomes were excellent, pricing was world class and most of the companies involved were serious players. Then he goes on to say that guidelines may have been violated. These are just guidelines. The guidelines say many many things.

Listen to part where he exposes the benami companies Lanco setup to corner the market.

Theo_Fidel wrote:For instance most of the product was supposed to be local but First Solar in the USA walked away with most of the PV contracts. Now the CSP plants are all buying their equipment from Germany and Austria, where are the guidelines now. So do we cancel everything on that basis.

yes, one of the guidelines states "To promote manufacturing in the solar sector, in India". If First Solar is violating the guidelines then it should also be investigated.

Lanco is a MNC and has interests in coal extraction and coal fired power plants. By cornering the solar manufacturing sector and destroying it from within they to aim to kill the competetion which will one day threaten their coal fired power plants.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 11 Feb 2012 03:26

http://www.tehelka.com/story_main51.asp ... 12coal.asp

You have been advocating that coal is no more an economically viable source of energy. Could you explain how you arrived at this conclusion?

In the past three years, the price of imported coal has tripled. The price of copper wire, the other main ingredient in the conventional grid, has tripled as well. On the other hand, the price of solar panels and LED bulbs has gone down. There has also been a phenomenal shift in the relative cost of renewable power versus the relative cost of fossil power. The reason the price of coal has gone up is because of growth and demand. There is a certain amount of cheap coal in Asia that is already being used. So when you build a new power plant, you cannot source cheap coal because it is being already used by existing power plants. New power plants have to source very expensive coal. Both India and China were purchasing low-cost coal from Indonesia. But when Indonesia realised it was selling coal at very low cost, it decided to not sell below the market price.

Looking ahead, importing coal is going to be very expensive. By building more coal plants, India and China are indirectly contributing to the rise of coal prices that they will only have to pay. If they build twice as many coal plants, they will have to pay six times for the coal. Asia has not run out of coal, it has run out of cheap coal.

Going forward, every coal plant that India and China build will not only raise the cost of new plants but also that of existing plants. This doesn’t mean that India should shut down its coal plants. It means India should build as few coal plants as possible and understand that every plant it builds raises the price of coal further.

But aren’t sustainable sources like wind and solar power expensive compared to coal?

Wind may be more expensive than cheap coal. But wind is less costly than expensive coal. Solar power, at this time, is slightly cheaper than expensive coal. Wind power is a lot cheaper. A mixture of wind and solar could turn out to be even cheaper. Forget the environmental impact; this is about providing maximum electricity at lowest cost. We should be pushing harder for energy efficiency. There should also be a serious effort to deploy solar power where it is already cost competitive. India really needs a Wind Mission. This could dramatically reduce the amount of new coal that India needs. This, in turn, will make India’s coal bill and energy bill much lower in the future.

‘By building more coal plants, India and China are contributing to the rise of coal prices’

The government has been portraying nuclear energy as the ‘sustainable’ alternative to fossil fuel. They argue that the cost would go down if there is mass production.

This theory has never worked in practice. In practice, it turns out, there are two things that make nuclear power plants expensive. First is the enormous amount of cement and steel involved in the building of the plant. As you build these plants, you drive up the cost of cement and steel. If you build a lot of nuclear plants at once, you will suddenly place a lot of orders against a limited manufacturing capacity and then raise the price. There is a failure in the energy sector to look at the marginal prices. Everybody wants to just look at average prices. Nobody pays average prices: you pay a marginal price. The second problem with nuclear power plants is the time taken to build them. You are borrowing money for 5-10 years to build a nuclear plant. You are not getting anything back. Look at solar panels: You will be generating electricity in a month. I can build a plant in western Gujarat in two years. Nowhere in the world has anyone built large nuclear plants that have made economic sense.

What are the three things the Indian government must do in the energy field to gain resource optimisation as well as environmental sustainability?

The first thing that the Indian government should do is recognise that it should be driving most of the power sector investment into areas that will generate marginal KW of electricity at the lowest rate. There is a need to set up a system in which investment is driven by true marginal cost. The second thing you need to recognise is that you have a crisis — the whole model India had planned to fulfil growth with Rs 2/unit coal-fired power has collapsed. You are running your power plant at half the capacity — that’s a crisis. The government needs to undertake mechanisms to meet the electricity shortfall. The third is the need to have an integrated, efficient system. In the present system, half of the power goes waste, whether through leakages during transmission or farmers destroying groundwater and wasting it. India cannot afford to be wasteful. India is a country of 1.2 billion people with heavily depleted natural resources. I think the two biggest existentialist threats that India faces are groundwater depletion and the carbon import bill.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby pgbhat » 14 Feb 2012 01:14


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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby krisna » 17 Feb 2012 00:56

Solar power cells on Narmada canal to light up rural homes
What was dismissed as an outlandish announcement by chief minister Narendra Modi is turning into reality. Gujarat is all set to become the first state in the country to generate solar power through panels mounted on a water body, the Narmada canal to be specific.

The solar panels would be laid on around 1 km of the Narmada canal for generating 1 MW of solar power.
The solar panels are being installed atop the Narmada branch canal near Chandrasan village of Mehsana’s Kadi taluka, around 75 km from Ahmedabad.

The engineering, procurement and construction contract for the project has been awarded to Sun Edison at a cost of Rs17.71 crore. This is slightly higher than a traditional solar plant, where panels are mounted on land, which costs in the region of Rs14 — 15 crore for 1 MW.
According to state government, the project would have multiple and lasting benefits. “Installation of panels on the canal will help in doing away with the need to acquire land. Evaporation of lakhs of litres of water will be prevented since the canal will be covered. And, we will generate clean energy,” Patel said.
Another advantage of the project is that power generated will be supplied to villages alongside the canal, which will lead to lower transmission losses. Meanwhile, officials said that work on the project is progressing well.
"The project is in advanced stages of completion. We expect to complete it in the next two to three weeks, and start work on the next phase," Bhargav Mehta, director, Sun Edison, said. The second phase of the project envisages solar power generation capacity of 2 MW by installing solar panels atop the Narmada canal.


good going.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 17 Feb 2012 04:38

^^^
I dunno. At best it reduces evaporation. Evaporation is due to Air temperature and humidity more than direct sunlight. Without fully sealing and raising the humidity evaporation is likely to remain high. In hot dry India evaporation rate varies between 80cm to 120cm annually. Say we take the high figure and allow for 50% savings in evaporation, this would give us about 60 cm (2 feet) of evaporative savings over that stretch of canal.

The canal is about 10 meters wide at the water.
So 10 meters by 1000 meter is 10,000 sqm.
So 10,000sqmx.6m = 6000 m3 of water saved annually.
Now if the canal only runs for 4 months, not uncommon, this would again get reduced to about 1/3 so about 2,000 m3 of water.
Since it appears that the system cost about Rs3 Crore more.
This means the cost of each cubic meter of water saved is 3 crore / 2,000 = Rs 15,000 per m3.
If say the system lasts 20 years. Rs 15,000 / 20 = Rs 750 per m3 of water saved.

Some perspective, Minjur desalination in Chennai costs about Rs 65 per m3 including electricity charges.
Regular domestic water costs in the Rs 5-Rs 10 range depending on city.

Now cool solar panels run better. On the order of 1%-2% for each 10 degrees of cooling. So the real benefit maybe the 20 kw x 2,800 hours = 56,000 = 58 MW/hr of additional power produced annually.
At Gujarat’s electricity incentive rate of Rs9 per kw this is worth 9x56,000~ Rs 5 lakhs annually. Or about Rs 1 crore over 20 years of panel life. Not chump change but still a loss.

I’d say it is not worth it. Some chamcha dived on to a loose remark without consulting an engineer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Meanwhile some realistic projects that are worth it. BTW this is commissioned at the lower FIT rate.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/com ... 899720.ece
Tata Power commissions 25-MW solar project in Gujarat

Tata Power has commissioned a 25 megawatt (MW) solar photovoltaic (PV) power project in Gujarat. Spread over 100 acres of land, the Rs 365-crore solar plant is based on crystalline silicon PV technology.

Virupaksha
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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Virupaksha » 17 Feb 2012 05:53

Theo,
the bigger benefit is no extra land required. Though I am kind of thinking how they plan to maintain and reach the centre panels. The evoparation savings just happens to be a side benefit, which some babu or DDM is praising

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby nandakumar » 17 Feb 2012 14:34

Virupaksha wrote:Theo,
the bigger benefit is no extra land required. Though I am kind of thinking how they plan to maintain and reach the centre panels. The evoparation savings just happens to be a side benefit, which some babu or DDM is praising


Virupaksha,
I will go with Theo on this. Gujarat grows wheat and cotton, to mention the two most lucrative crops. If we take wheat, it requires 1,650 ltrs of water to produce one kilogram of wheat. Even if we assume all of the 6000 cu. metre of water is saved, the economic value added as measured in incremental wheat output works out to no more than Rs 37,500 per year. ( Assumptions: Price of wheat in the market Rs 12 per Kg., Variable cost, fertiliser mainly, Rs 2 per Kg, Contribution, that is Gross revenue minus variable cost is Rs 10 per kg)
It will take more than 500 years to recover incremental investments of Rs 2 crore.
The financial analysis becomes somewhat more favourable if we assume that all available desert lands and other fallow land has been used up in solar power generation thenadditonal power generated is valued not at the agriculture output value but in terms of industrial and services output value per unit of electricity. But then we are decades if not centuries away from reaching full potential in solar power generation using land based systems

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Virupaksha » 18 Feb 2012 06:19

nandakumar,

whenever we talk of desert lands, that by definition, there is no infrastructure present. Getting the grid infrastructure to those remote places costs money. Canal lands "generally" have more infrastructure available. The above one was clearly an "prototyping" to work out the cost differentials due to those.

As I said, that water is a side benefit (aka power point presentation)

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 20 Feb 2012 05:59

http://www.livemint.com/2012/02/2000285 ... ntees.html

NTPC unit encashes guarantees of 14 firms for missing deadline

NVVN, a unit of state-run NTPC Ltd, has encashed the bank guarantees submitted by these companies as they had not commissioned their solar photovoltaic projects within the 9 January deadline.

The projects to these 14 companies, totalling 70 megawatts (MW), were awarded under the first phase of India’s Jawaharlal Nehru National Solar Mission (JNNSM) by NVVN, the nodal agency for awarding them. The three companies with equity participation from Lanco are DDE Renewable Energy Ltd, Electromech Maritech Pvt. Ltd and Finehope Allied Energy Pvt. Ltd. Lanco also holds the engineering, procurement and construction (EPC) contract for their projects. Among the other companies that were penalized are Amrit Energy Pvt. Ltd and Alex Solar Pvt. Ltd.

A total of Rs28 crore in bank guarantees were encashed, with each project being penalized for around Rs2 crore.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Awesome image of what India is becoming. Energy from the sun and wind powering the land.

Image

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Prem » 26 Feb 2012 09:45

http://www.ecofriend.com/indian-researc ... -tile.html
Indian researchers develop integrated solar energy storage tile

Solar researchers from Kerala, a southern state of India, have designed the world’s first integrated solar energy storage roof tile. Utilizing special electronics, the researchers have managed to develop solar tiles with integrated battery to store the generated power. Forty researchers of the Amrita Center for Nanosciences, headed by Shanti Nair and Vinod Gopal, have worked on the coveted project.

Image

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 27 Feb 2012 21:17

Another low! Rs 7 per kw now. And still declining!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-2 ... w-bid.html

Alex Green Energy, a Kolkata-based developer of clean-energy plants, won the right to develop a 5- megawatt project in a solar auction in India’s eastern Odisha state, pledging to supply power at a record-low rate.

Alex Green has the option to develop the remaining 20 megawatts of photovoltaic capacity from the auction before it’s offered to other bidders, P.K. Mohan, chief executive officer of the Odisha Renewable Energy Development Agency, the state-run body overseeing the solar program, said by telephone today.

Under auction rules, Alex Green must complete the project by August 2013. Its bid pledges to sell power to the state-run utility at 7,000 rupees ($142) per megawatt-hour, which is about 28 percent the world average for plants using crystalline-based panels, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. It’s also the lowest bid seen in India to date.

The price of solar power in India is closing in on the cost of electricity from coal as global prices of solar products plunge because of declining equipment costs. Solairedirect SA, France’s second-largest producer, bid 7,490 rupees a megawatt- hour in India’s national auction on Dec. 2 to sell photovoltaic- based electricity, half the rate the government proposed.

Odisha Renewable Energy Development is seeking approval from the state government to auction an additional 50 megawatts of solar installations, Mohan said. The capacity will be offered in two batches of 25 megawatts in the next few months, he said.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Gaurav_S » 28 Feb 2012 09:27


Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 13 Mar 2012 01:12

http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... gy/467460/

Tamil Nadu to add 3000 Mw solar energy

The Tamil Nadu government has set a target to add 3,000 Megawatt (Mw) solar energy as part of it solar mission programme by 2015-16. The state government is also planning to bring a new policy for solar energy.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby nandakumar » 13 Mar 2012 14:13

Theo_Fidel wrote:http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/tamil-nadu-to-add-3000-mw-solar-energy/467460/

Tamil Nadu to add 3000 Mw solar energy

The Tamil Nadu government has set a target to add 3,000 Megawatt (Mw) solar energy as part of it solar mission programme by 2015-16. The state government is also planning to bring a new policy for solar energy.


Theo
I learnt the other day that someone in Tamil Nadu is experimenting with a simple solution to tilt the solar panel in line with the movement of the sun. This is on the lines of what cable operators used to do (back in the days when there were no multi system operators aggregating video signals) to tilt the dish antennae to receive signals from a particular satellite. The cable operator would use one or at the most two dish antennae and selectively beam programmes based on popular demand. The device would be a low horse power electric motor of the kind that would drive a windshield wiper in a big sized sedan. Since the panel needs to be tilted ever so slowly a motor with low torque would suffice, was the explanation I got. From what i uderstood, you are not aiming for a perfect synchronisation that expensive solar tracking systems would typically involve. The objective is to expose a larger area of the solar panel to direct sunlight just that bit longer, a Jugaad solution, as i see it.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 13 Mar 2012 21:51

Yes it would be an interesting concept. The problem tracking systems always have is with wind. You would be surprised at how much force a 30 kmph gust generates on a panel. About 20kg per sqft or about 30 kg on a 1.5mx1m panel. A 60 kmph gust generates 4 times as much, about 120 kg per panel. If the panel is center pivoted, 2-axis this entire pressure is torqued to almost unbelievable moment forces. 1-axis tracking is easier.

India is Sub tropical. Meaning the angle of our sun is pretty much straight overhead and does not vary as much. For instance in Chennai the the sun varies by only 14 degrees from Summer to Winter. So actual gains from tracking maybe quite low. In the 10% range.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby nandakumar » 14 Mar 2012 18:26

Theo
I got the impression that this tilting panel idea was to track the movement of the sun during the day from East to West. Or am I missing something?

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 14 Mar 2012 20:35

That is single axis tracking. It helps less than you might think as when the sun gets low the panels shade each other. It helps a little with earlier start and later end but less that you might think.

What really helps is to keep the incident angle at 0 degrees all the time. This require 2-axis tracking. This is when real performance increases of 20% are realized. The problem always is to ask if the 20% perfomance improvement is worth the bother of getting electric lines and control equipment out there. During high wind times you will want to rotate the panels into a low drag profile hence the need for control. Reduces damage and maintenance.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby uddu » 19 Mar 2012 14:54

Congress Gets Burned by the Sun
http://www.power-eng.com/news/2012/03/1 ... e-sun.html

In a major scam, seven associates of the Lanco Group, an infrastructure company owned by Congress MP Rajagopal Lagadapati, were granted commissioning certificates in January by a Rajasthan government body for seven 5 MW solar power plants each in Askandra village, Jaisalmer, even though the projects were nowhere near completion. The projects, part of the National Solar Mission (NSM), were to be completed by January 9. The Rajasthan Renewable Energy Corporation Limited (RRECL), given the task of monitoring the completion of the NSM projects in Rajasthan, issued the fraudulent certificates.

Little work was visible at the Askandra site when India Today visited it between February 4-7, well after the deadline had lapsed. Instead of 1,70,000 solar panels needed to generate 35 MW of power, less than 1,000, mostly non-functional ones, were found at the site.

Lagadapati, 48, a second-time MP from Vijayawada in Andhra Pradesh, has Rs 299 crore in assets according to an affidavit filed before the Election Commission. Market estimates put the worth of Lanco Group at Rs 5,000 crore. Its companies were able to acquire 40 per cent of the solar power projects under the NSM in Rajasthan in the first phase of bidding in 2010.

Lanco had deposited a bank guarantee of Rs 85 crore for the projects. A delay beyond January 9 and till February 9 would have resulted in the forfeiture of 20 per cent of this guarantee. Delay beyond February 9 and extending till March 9 would have meant a penalty of 40 per cent of the amount. The project agreement stipulated forfeiture of the entire guarantee in the event of Lanco not completing it by March 10. In other words, the company has effectively saved Rs 85 crore.

The two companies owned by Lanco and seven backed by it were able to corner nine solar power projects in the first phase of bidding under NSM. India Today has learnt that Lanco got 100 per cent preferential holding in these seven companies after they signed the contracts, a clear violation of NSM rules which bar any change in the shareholding pattern for one year after project commissioning. NWN says that in July 2011, while going through the closure sheets of the companies, it detected a change in the shareholding pattern. It said, "We issued notice for termination of contracts to all nine Lanco companies in August 2011. By December 2011, the issue was settled as Lanco agreed to restore control to the parent companies".

India Today's visit to Askandra revealed that all companies were working under the same umbrella and were located in a cluster. On February 16, Lanco responded to India Today queries sent on February 9: "Projects are grid connected and generating power." The company also said it has equity participation within permissible limits in other companies it was being accused of using as a front. A Lagadapati aide clarified: "The MP is not directly involved in the functioning of Lanco." On March 5, Union Ministry of New and Renewable Energy said that after India Today's queries, it has sent a team to verify all solar projects in the country.

January saw Rajasthan and Gujarat chief ministers spar over who was ahead on solar power generation. On January 9, during the Pravasi Bharatiya Divas, Narendra Modi said his state was far ahead of Rajasthan. Ashok Gehlot reacted on January 12 by saying that his state would beat Gujarat in it. The Lanco affair lays bare the hollowness of Gehlot's claims. :lol:

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Murugan » 20 Mar 2012 11:34

Now jewelers in Solar Power

Shree Ganesh Jewellery House (SGJHL) has bagged a solar power project in Orissa.

The 25 MW solar power project will be executed by Alex Green Energy in which the company holds a majority stake. Alex Green Energy is co-promoted by the Sureka Group. Alex Green won the right to develop a 5-MW project in a solar auction in Orissa. Under the rules of the tender, the least bidder will be offered all the 25 MW at the winning price. Alex will be commissioning the entire 25 MW shortly. The total investment including the debt component for commissioning the solar plant in willl be close to Rs 175 crore and will be completely funded by Alex.

SGJHL had acquired a controlling stake in the two companies – Alex Astral Power and Alex Spectrum Radiation, co-promoted by the Sureka Group.


http://www.projectstoday.com/News/NewsD ... &nid=39868

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby member_23061 » 20 Mar 2012 18:49

I would like to ask a newb question, is it worth in the long run to buy Solar panels for your house? Considering of course its in South India with monsoons. [I think this reduces the power generated?]

Also has anyone used or seen anyone using this kind of air conditioners?

http://onyxsolarac.com/features.html

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 02 Apr 2012 04:27

Relaince has just commissioned their 40 MW Solar plant in Pokharan.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... nergy-park

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Vriksh » 02 Apr 2012 18:35

I have some questions about Solar Power.

1) Solar Panels are Black and therefore solar light incidence increases panel as well as local ecosystem temperatures,
2) Higher temperatures decreases panel conversion efficiency (learned Physicists can comment on this?)
3) Higher temperatures due to solar plants will lead to localized warming which could adversely affect plant and animal life.
4) High Dust concentrations in India mean that these solar panels will have to regularly cleaned.
5) If dust is not removed then it causes decrease in efficiency (Most rural solar streetlights have failed due to this dust).
6) Removal of dust (may) require water.

Compared to Natural systems
1) Natural Photosynthesis using chlorophyll panels (leaves) is green and this color reflects away a lot of Solar energy.
2) Green color is perhaps an indicator of an natural selection enabling operation around 20C
3) Carbon based life tries to regulate system temperatures to 20C for greatest productivity.

Have these factors been considered before commissioning Solar Power Projects?

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby chaanakya » 02 Apr 2012 19:04

Solar panels are blue due to silicon nitride .
All your other points are correct and get considered in large projects.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 02 Apr 2012 20:39

The logic is incorrect however.

Vegetative cooling is due to Evaporative transpiration of moisture. Not due to absorption or reflection. Green colored plastic plants would heat the same as Asphalt.

WRT dust so far labor is cheap in India and a couple of farmers are usually hired with large projects to wipe the panels daily.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Vriksh » 04 Apr 2012 10:16

Theo_Fidel wrote:The logic is incorrect however.

Vegetative cooling is due to Evaporative transpiration of moisture. Not due to absorption or reflection. Green colored plastic plants would heat the same as Asphalt.

WRT dust so far labor is cheap in India and a couple of farmers are usually hired with large projects to wipe the panels daily.


Temperatures of various colored objects under thermal radiation is the same when the objects are convectively insulated (and only radiative heat transfer is allowed) from their surrounding, the statement is not true when the objects in question are in contact with other thermal bodies (air, earth etc).

Solar thermal incidence = S (KW/sqm), Area of body = A, e_a = emissivity/absorbtivity, e_r = reflectivity, T_b = Temperature of Body, T_atm=Temp of atmosphere
Convective Heat transfer coeff = K, sigma = wein's constant. (

e_a + e_r = 1 (assuming transmission =0, opaque objects) ----- eqn (1)

Heat flux to body
e_a.S.A - sigma.e_a.T_b^4.A +sigma.e_a.T_atm^4.A - K(T_b-T_atm).A =0 ----- eqn (2)

You can easily see that e_a will affect the temperature of the body. If you set the last term of the eqn ie K = 0 then the temperature is independent of e_a. Therefore an asphalt road is hotter than green or white painted stuff. Therefore changing the reflectivity of a surface is a way of controlling its temperature.

Devraj_d in a previous post suggests best case power generation of 10*10 km for a 1000 MW which gives us 10W/sqm Or 100 sqm for 1 KW. It takes my car washing guy 20 min to clean 10sqm of car with water. Therefore if I assume that 10sec/sqm by labor in a PV plant, Cleaning time of 1000secs/KW, assuming 8 hr mandays @ 400/manday. Cost of dust removal per KW = 1000*400/8*3600 ~ Rs 14. If we assume operational hours of plant = 10hrs per day gives us 10KWhr, which in turn leads to a revenue of (@Rs 3/KWhr) = Rs 30. Which means if dust removal will take away nearly 50% of revenue. Therefore using labor for dust removal is unlikely so the pertinent question is how are they removing dust from panels. Can someone please let us all know how PV plants in India are going to be cleaned. My estimates suggest that cleaning by labor is a major expense.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 05 Apr 2012 00:19

Vriksh,

Thanx for the post with the equation. I always enjoy doing numbers. It gives one a very clear understanding of what is going on with no spin. :D

Lets take both parts of your conversation. Your concern was about the heating of the environment affecting animal/plant life. My point was the color has nothing to do with this. Your confusion may be due to the fact that Cool colored roofs are strongly advised in Urban environments. This is due to lowering heat gain on the building envelope however. Not to cool the environment as such. The total heat gain to the environment remains the same. The Urban heat island effect is due the lack of plants and quick run off of rain rather than color of objects. Reflected light is in IR and is quickly absorbed by the Atmosphere as part of the green house effect.

Again, total heat gain does not change.

WRT dust. in manual cleaning no water is required. Water is only required when manual cleaning is impossible. Panels are surprising efficient even with a thick layer of dust on them. This is due to the brilliance of the sun. Even when you have tinted glasses on roughly 40% of sunlight gets through.

If a panel needs to be wiped down once a month. And it takes a man with a meter wide duster one minute to wipe down a 15 m2 array or about 10 panels. Or about 600 panel per hour. ~ to say 500. The 40 mw reliance plant had 500,000 panels so the plant would need 500,000/500 = 1000 man hours per month. With 20 working days, this would be 50 hours per day. At 10 hour per day. 5 workers. Each paid Rs 3000/month. Or ~ Rs15,000. or roughly Rs 500 per day.

Assuming 6 hours of average sun per day = 40x6 = 240 MW. ~ 240,000 kw. 500/240,000 = 0.20 paise per kw. With average utility payment of Rs 8 per kw, this is 0.025% of income. Pretty low as long as labor remains cheap.


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