Solar energy in India

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nandakumar
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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby nandakumar » 07 Aug 2011 13:26

Theo_Fidel wrote:The question is transporting heat over hundreds of kilometers. Passive heat/cool systems are useful, but nothing matches electricity.

But I understand what you are saying. We could get 3x type heat out of the same solar system. Just don't see how you pull it off.

I'm any case we need coal for reducing the ore to steel. How does one manage the chemical uses for coal.


Theo Fidel, the article talks of in-situ heat radiation. They make two points. One, most industrial processes require heat in the region of 300-600 degree celsius. Two, technology has developed to generate 2000 degree Celsius using solar heat radiation. It even has some images. Not being an engineer and my school level science is inadequate for this purpose, i wasn't sure if the authors were talking of something really credible or it was just one of those popular science books of the kind USSR used to specialise in and which were available in local libraries in our school days.
I wonder if you can attempt a critique of that article and post your comments here. It will be education for us finance types.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 10 Aug 2011 09:20

Well I dunno... ..never ask an engineer to elaborate :) ... ..stick to yes or no answers was my professors dictum.

Like I said they have a point about 3x type power and needing industrial heat but it is hopelessly impractical and poorly thought out. Industrial processes require split second heat flows, or the entire batch is toast. Also the very process of combustion, removing O2, etc is critical for many many processes. We don't just need heat, we need fire, critical difference. A heating element would be restricted to radiative/convective heating and this just does not cut it industrially. So many critical activities require electrical heating as well. For instance much of industrial welding/brazing required some form of inductive heating. They don't explain at all how to manage hot fluid flows even if it is in-situ. Molten salt or fluid type systems would be extraordinarily leaky, even w/ insulated pipes. Losses of 30% per 1000 yards of insulated pipe are not unknown in the higher temperature, 600f+ range, which is why so much effort is expended to get the heat to the exact spot directly.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 10 Aug 2011 09:29

Meanwhile...

35 out of 37 is quite incredible. I was bracing myself for a 15-20 type number and would have been happy. Now they better get them built. Our most mission critical project ever. If we fail at this we might as well go back to our shabby 'kudusai's' and curl up the tail.

Can't wait for the day when immense fields of bright shiny glass in crisp straight lines dot every district and village of the nation, lighting up a million projects and dreams.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-0 ... ncing.html

India Rejects Two Solar Projects; Solar Thermal Plants Pass

India rejected two of 37 solar projects awarded in its first national auction, which aims to generate 20,000 megawatts of sun-powered capacity by 2022. NTPC Vidyut Vyapar Nigam Ltd., or NVVN, the state-run power trader that will buy electricity from the plants, accepted 35 projects that were able to submit evidence they had arranged funding, the government said in a news release.

All seven solar-thermal projects, which account for 470 megawatts of capacity or 75 percent of what was awarded in the December auction, made the cut, Deepak Gupta, secretary of the New and Renewable Energy ministry, said today in New Delhi. Companies building the larger thermal projects include billionaire Anil Ambani’s Reliance Power Ltd. (RPWR) and Lanco Infratech Ltd. (LANCI), one of India’s largest non-state power producers. They had faced forfeiting as much as 1.89 billion rupees ($42 million) in bank guarantees if not accepted.

Gupta declined to identify the two projects that were rejected except to say in a phone interview that each held a license to build a 5-megawatt photovoltaic plant. Solar thermal plants use sunlight to heat liquids that produce steam for generators; photovoltaic plants use panels to turn sunlight directly into power. The projects face no further deadlines before commissioning, Gupta said. The 140 megawatts of photovoltaic projects that have been accepted need to be completed by January. The solar thermal projects have until 2013.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby nandakumar » 10 Aug 2011 10:33

Theo_Fidel wrote:Well I dunno... ..never ask an engineer to elaborate :) ... ..stick to yes or no answers was my professors dictum.

Like I said they have a point about 3x type power and needing industrial heat but it is hopelessly impractical and poorly thought out. Industrial processes require split second heat flows, or the entire batch is toast. Also the very process of combustion, removing O2, etc is critical for many many processes. We don't just need heat, we need fire, critical difference. A heating element would be restricted to radiative/convective heating and this just does not cut it industrially. So many critical activities require electrical heating as well. For instance much of industrial welding/brazing required some form of inductive heating. They don't explain at all how to manage hot fluid flows even if it is in-situ. Molten salt or fluid type systems would be extraordinarily leaky, even w/ insulated pipes. Losses of 30% per 1000 yards of insulated pipe are not unknown in the higher temperature, 600f+ range, which is why so much effort is expended to get the heat to the exact spot directly.

Thanks Theo Fidel. The last sentence 'so much effort is expended in applying heat at the exact spot' aptly sums it up.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 25 Aug 2011 09:48

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... ar-mission

Birla Surya to invest Rs 5,400 crore in solar power unit

Birla Surya Limited, a part of the Yash Birla Group, plans to invest Rs 5,400 crore, over the next five years, to set up an integrated unit for fabrication of multi-crystalline silicon wafers and manufacturing solar photovoltaic cells.

The company would invest Rs 1,493 crore in the first phase that would entail setting up of a manufacturing unit with 60 megawatt capacity for multi crystalline silicon wafers and a fabrication unit of capacity 125 mw, the company said in a meeting on Thursday.

Chairman Yash Birla said that the decision to foray into solar power was driven by the opportunity arising from the government's National Solar Mission which aims at capacity of 20 gigawatts by 2022. To finance the first phase of the manufacturing unit, the company has raised Rs 970.50 crore of debt from a consortium of 11 domestic lenders. "The loan has tenure of 10 years with average interest rate of 14.5%," said PVR Murthy, group finance director.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 25 Aug 2011 09:51

Hmmm! A few more clouds in the sky it appears..

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ind ... 340638.ece

Solar mission delicately poised; needs more props

First of all, there should have been an announcement from the nodal agency – NTPC Vidyut Vyapar Nigam Ltd – as to how many of the 30-odd solar PV and the seven solar thermal projects have cleared financial closure and are going ahead with commissioning, under Batch-I of phase-I of the 22 GW Solar Mission. The Batch-I projects would create 620 MW of solar power capacity, and kickoff the programme. That such a chest-thumping announcement has not happened yet is very telling. Scratch the surface, questions come worming out, but no answers. These seem to fall broadly under two heads: Have the developers achieved financial closure and has there been a change in shareholding structure. Under the tender conditions, the first is mandated, the second is prohibited. NVVN officials have told Business Line that if a developer says he has not achieved financial closure, but put up the project out of his own pocket, there is no way he could be denied the project, and his bid bond forfeited. But this stance is fraught with problems. Another company that has not participated in the bidding could now say, “if I had known this, I'd have participated in the tender too.” What would the NVVN tell that firm?

Now, it is strange that a developer who gets bank funding should be asked to provide proof, but one who says he could do it by himself is not asked to clarify how.

The second issue – of change in shareholding between the time of bidding and now – is similarly disconcerting. A senior official of NVVN told Business Line that the matter is now under examination from a legal perspective. Should there be a violation of tender conditions, a notice would be issued to the offender, at which shall begin a 60 day ‘consultative period'. During this period, the developer would either convince NVVN that he is not in violation or he would revert to the original shareholding structure.

But what if he found to be in violation and does not revert to original structure? Would the project be cancelled? And, during the consultative period, could he go ahead with project construction?

For sure, as NVVN officials point out, we don't know yet, even if there is any violation of tender conditions. But remember, the documents were submitted on July 24. “If things were okay, they would have announced something by now,” notes Mr Vijay Lakhanpal, COO, Forum for Advancement of Solar Thermal (FAST). While the technicality of shareholding would delay the project, the absence of funding would derail it. Any delay begs the question whether the prescribed deadlines would be relaxed. It is not clear as to how many projects have financing in place – the industry buzz is, not many. Would they be able to execute the projects out of their balance-sheets? Surely, not the big-ticket thermal projects? And, thermal projects add up to 470 MW. In this haze, the visibility is too poor to come up with a reasonable estimate of how many projects will reach fruition. Even if only, say, 200-250 MW come up it ought to be held a good start, but this overhand of confusion needs to be cleared fast, especially because the bidding process for the Batch-II, which would complete the 1,000 MW phase-I, is about to begin soon.



What would really help the developers planning to bid for batch 2 is if the MNRE declared the tariffs of the projects that achieved financial closure and those that have submitted resolutions for equity financing of project, says Mr Vineeth Vijayaraghavan, an industry observer who runs the online newsletter, panchabuta.com. This will also help clear the belief among industry observers that only projects with unviable tariffs that otherwise would have to be cancelled, have given these equity financing letters, in order to buy time to find strategic partners or buyers, Mr Vijayaraghavan says.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby joshvajohn » 27 Aug 2011 13:35

India announces solar PV power bidding for 350 MW
http://www.pv-magazine.com/services/pre ... 100004000/

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Airavat » 03 Sep 2011 07:17

RPower gets Rs 400 cr US Exim Bank funding for solar plant

The company is developing the country's largest solar photo voltaic (PV) project with 40-MW generation capacity, which is scheduled for commissioning by March, 2012. This would be followed by commissioning of another 100-MW solar plant in Rajasthan, which would be a Concentrated Solar Power (CSP) project to be commissioned by May, 2013.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 04 Sep 2011 03:11

Several states are now pushing their own small Solar programs.

http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/details ... 100003925/

The Indian state of Karnataka is inviting bids for solar projects worth 80 megawatts (MW). A draft of the power purchase agreements (PPAs) offered under the policy has also been released. Criticism is aimed at both the lack of experience required for developers, and the benchmark tariffs set.

Under its new solar policy introduced last month, 30 MW of solar thermal and 50 MW of photovoltaic projects will be selected on the basis of the discounts offered by developers on the benchmark tariffs of INR 14.50 ($0.36) per kilowatt hour (kWh), as defined by the Karnataka Electricity Regulatory Commission (KERC). Furthermore, developers will sell their power to state distribution companies (DISCOMS).

Karnataka has set the submissions deadline, for requests for selection (RfS), for October 20 2011.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby chaanakya » 04 Sep 2011 09:54

Pumped storage solution is being deployed in Germany as well, especially for large wind farms , which they have in plenty.
Natural geological features are being utilised.

Another interesting point they told is that in Merit order of dispatch( What we call scheduling) Renewables come first. All energy produced by RE sources have to be fed to grid (unless stored in pumped storage).

Consumers have freedom to choose the provider of energy and transfer the connection easily to another region on same conditions. One can choose mix of RE power they want to purchase. There are different plans , looks like tariff plans for mobile companies. Anyone setting RE sources (SPV/Wind) or Small CHP plant with surplus energy can sell to Grid and PPA is easily signed. Some small issues remain though they are easily sorted.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Amber G. » 13 Oct 2011 04:42

Nice article from recent Scientific American
How Solyndra's Failure Promises a Brighter Future for Solar Power
>>The bankruptcy of photovoltaic panel-maker Solyndra is actually good news for the solar industry...

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Gaurav_S » 14 Oct 2011 16:08

Moser Baer plans 200 Mw solar capacity in India by next year

"Currently, we are working towards commissioning 300 MWs of solar projects over the next 12 months in countries including India, Germany, Italy and UK. Of these, about 200 Mw of capacities will come up in India at places like Rajasthan, Gujarat and Karnataka. However, our presence will be pan-India but since Gujarat has higher sunlight radiation than other states in the country, we will have about 95 Mw of capacities in the state," said Ratul Puri, chairman, Moser Baer Projects.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 14 Oct 2011 18:15

This is the first time I'm seeing some real world cost numbers to go with the solar plant. So Rs 465 Crore for about 30 MW. So that should translate to about Rs 10,000 crore - Rs 12,000 crore per 1000 MW of capacity. Solar costs are expected to decline about 50% by 2020, so installation cost at least will be competitive with coal in fairly short order. It will be the cheapest source of power despite its challenges.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-1 ... plant.html

Moser Baer India Ltd. (MBI), the country’s second-largest solar-cell maker, completed the biggest sun- powered plant in India.

The 4.65 billion rupee ($95 million) project in Gujarat state, which uses thin-film panels supplied by First Solar Inc. (FSLR), DuPont Co., and Moser Baer, has a capacity of 30 megawatts, the New Delhi-based company said today. That makes it the largest solar plant commissioned to date in India, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance data. It will generate 52 million kilowatt-hours or enough electricity for 50,000 homes per day, according to the e-mailed statement.


http://www.pv-tech.org/news/aeg_power_s ... g_facility

AEG Power Solutions has inaugurated its new 400MW PV manufacturing factory in Bangalore, India. Initially, the 80,000-square-foot site, which employs 150 people, will produce AEG’s PV250 and PV500 series inverters, although plans are already underway to ramp up capacity to include uninterruptible power supplies (UPSs).

“India invests high amounts of money in solar energy and is one of the most important markets for AEG PS. With a local production, we strengthen our customer relationship in focusing on the specific demands,” said Horst Kayser, AEG’s chief executive officer.

India is one of the world’s fastest-growing solar markets and AEG has been established in the country since 2006; in the last six months, the company has secured supply contracts with major OEM’s and solar farm developers worth 39MW and 45MW for total solutions equipment and monitoring systems respectively.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby SaiK » 18 Oct 2011 03:09

http://zeenews.india.com/news/eco-news/ ... 36731.html

you all don't want to miss this article... we have to do it before china does, now

dhoti folding/

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 18 Oct 2011 18:03

More good news. :)

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ind ... epage=true

Over 150 companies have evinced interest in developing large solar photovoltaic projects of up to 20 MW. These include Reliance (Anil Ambani Group), Lanco, Moser Baer and the Tatas. Also in the race are public sector companies GAIL (India) and Hindustan Petroleum Corporation Ltd. Official sources told Business Line that the request for selection (RFS) were received for 218 solar PV projects for over 2,500 MW capacity, :D much higher than the capacity offered – 350 MW. The RFS were invited by the Government as part of the second batch of Phase-1 of the National Solar Mission. The last date for submission was October 3.

NTPC Vidyut Vyapar Nigam (NVVN), the trading arm of NTPC, has been designated as the nodal agency for sale and purchase of grid-connected solar power under Phase-1 of the Mission. NVVN expects to call for discount bids from the shortlisted entities by November. What made this phase attractive was that besides the incentives being offered by the Government, the Ministry for New and Renewable Energy revised the guidelines for new grid-connected solar PV projects and increased the per unit capacity into multiples of 5 MW with the maximum of 20 MW for FY 2011-12. In the earlier round, where projects with a cumulative capacity of 150 MW were approved, the maximum capacity stood at 5 MW for each unit.

Further, for the second batch of the Mission, the Government has increased the timeline to achieve financial closure by a month to seven months or 210 days for the bidders from the time of signing the power purchase agreements. Also, the total capacity of such projects to be allocated to a company, including its parent, affiliate or ultimate parent or any Group company shall be limited to 50 MW. They can submit applications for a maximum of three projects at different locations, subject to a maximum aggregate capacity of 50 MW. The net worth of the company should be equal to or greater than the value calculated at the rate of Rs 3 crore of the project capacity up to 20 MW. For every MW additional capacity, beyond 20 MW, additional net worth of Rs 2 crore would need to be demonstrated.

The Jawaharlal Nehru National Solar Mission envisages the implementation of the solar programme including utility grid solar power in three phases – first phase up to 2013 (1,100 MW), second phase up to 2017 (4,000 MW), and third phase up to 2022 (20,000 MW).

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 11 Nov 2011 08:48

And we are off....

http://www.efytimes.com/e1/73153/fullnews.htm

Clover Solar Pvt. Ltd, a group company of Clover Technologies Pvt. Ltd today, announced that it was the first to successfully commission a 2.2 MW Solar Photovoltaic (PV) Power Plant in Supa, Baramati, Maharashtra and well before the deadline given by the Government under JNNM (Jawaharlal Nehru National Solar Mission). Set up at an investment of Rs 40 crores, the plant spreads over 24 acres of land will generate more than 4 million units (kwh) of power per annum.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 18 Nov 2011 07:11

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-1 ... india.html

Green Infra Ltd., a renewable energy project developer backed by India’s Infrastructure Development Finance Co., completed its first solar plant.

The 10-megawatt plant in Rajkot in the western state of Gujarat, boosts Green Infra’s total operating capacity to 174 megawatts, the New Delhi-based company said today in an e-mailed statement.

It plans to construct another 150 megawatts of renewable capacity by March, it said. Green Infra was set up by IDFC’s private equity arm in 2008 and bought BP Plc’s Indian wind- energy portfolio of 100 megawatts the following year.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby joshvajohn » 19 Nov 2011 06:43

India Plans More Incentives for Solar Equipment Makers
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 96214.html


Every house tops can be fitted with a subsidised and reduced price solar system that can connect itself to Electical supply. then much of the electric cuts will be sorted out. All the city houses must be told to have a solar system soon. This will help enormously the bills as well as the continued electric supply within the cities and their demands. I hope a courageous chief minister would start this first as a solution for meeting electicity needs.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Tanaji » 19 Nov 2011 16:57

What is needed is a way to feed into the grid directly and more importantly getting credit for it in a quick and reliable manner. This would bring down the cost of the installation since batteries wont be required, reducing space as well. The devil is in details since its obvious that it can be abused.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby vishvak » 20 Nov 2011 01:12

Tanaji wrote:What is needed is a way to feed into the grid directly and more importantly getting credit for it in a quick and reliable manner. This would bring down the cost of the installation since batteries wont be required, reducing space as well. The devil is in details since its obvious that it can be abused.

As also the fact that at many levels much more energy is needed, for example machines, trains, etc. In this age of machines, solar energy is not too strong in case of focused need.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby SSSalvi » 23 Nov 2011 22:00

joshvajohn wrote:India Plans More Incentives for Solar Equipment Makers
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 96214.html


Every house tops can be fitted with a subsidised and reduced price solar system that can connect itself to Electical supply. then much of the electric cuts will be sorted out. All the city houses must be told to have a solar system soon. This will help enormously the bills as well as the continued electric supply within the cities and their demands. I hope a courageous chief minister would start this first as a solution for meeting electicity needs.


What is the size/cost of (panel+electronics) required to provide about 5 units ( 5kwh, general minimum requirement for light/fan/washing/geyser ) per day? Present electricity bill is about Rs.300-500. What would be the break-even period for the proposed panel?

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 24 Nov 2011 00:38

SSS,

If you are using geyser. Strongly recommend Solar water heater, esp. in Hyderabad. The basic TATA/BP zing model is available for less than Rs 20,000 installed. My fathers bill dropped by 1/3 after installing his in Chennai.

Image

WRT PV till the government comes out with a price support mechanism it won't be cost effective. For your needs it looks like you just need a 1KW panel. A 1 KW panels set right now costs about 1-1.5 Lakhs installed. Since India does not have a grid-tie system, you need a battery backup which makes it all expensive. Not cost effective yet, except on industrial scale.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Murugan » 25 Nov 2011 10:40

Govt should subsidize solar instruments - directly - like they do in petro products and fertilizers.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby kmkraoind » 25 Nov 2011 10:52

If not subsidies. Make the solar panel and the whole industry setup as tax free. Make a smart grid, and buy excess power from household owners at Rs. 1-0.5 plus the rate they sell to the household owners, and promise 24x7 power supply for the whole lane if solar panels are installed on reaching 75% household of that area.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Murugan » 25 Nov 2011 10:58

^ +1

I dream of buying solar equipment and products the way i buy pan bidi

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby sum » 25 Nov 2011 11:18

SSS,

If you are using geyser. Strongly recommend Solar water heater, esp. in Hyderabad. The basic TATA/BP zing model is available for less than Rs 20,000 installed. My fathers bill dropped by 1/3 after installing his in Chennai.

We installed it at our place in B'luru 2 months back and it cost us ~35K ( including piping cost etc). This was after the 30% govt discount as part of a 1 month scheme!!!

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby SSSalvi » 27 Nov 2011 16:07

The subsidy by govt should be given to the actual user instead of the manufacturer.
Why do we have so many so called " SOLAR :wink: FENCES "? That is because by putting one small solar panel the manufacturer gets subsidy amount for total project cost. It is immaterial whether the fence works on solar power or 'standby' mains for most of the lifetime. How much power is needed to run an electric fence? Is it necessary to use solar power for that?

Govt should also give additional subsidy to those users who use tracking system.
The manufacturers say that by adding tracking mechanism you get a complex system ( less reliable ) for a 'fractional' increase in power output so it is not advisable.
Is it true? A practical tracker has demonstrated that he could achieve a 30% increase. Is it small?

I feel the main reason why manufacturers are opposing tracking is that their panel sales would drop ( including subsidy money ) by at least 20% ( I will use 80 panels instead of 100 for the same power output ).

That is the reason I feel that govt should provide subsidy to actual users than the manufacturer becuse those who are a little technically inclined will surely go in for tracking type alternative as it turns out to be cheaper in an overall perspective.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby chaanakya » 27 Nov 2011 16:34

SSSalvi wrote:
That is the reason I feel that govt should provide subsidy to actual users than the manufacturer becuse those who are a little technically inclined will surely go in for tracking type alternative as it turns out to be cheaper in an overall perspective.

Govt provides subsidy to actual beneficiaries and not to manufacturers.

Tracking itself uses some amount of power so actual power delivered may not be commensurate with the investment needed for putting tracking in place.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby chaanakya » 27 Nov 2011 16:38

kmkraoind wrote:If not subsidies. Make the solar panel and the whole industry setup as tax free. Make a smart grid, and buy excess power from household owners at Rs. 1-0.5 plus the rate they sell to the household owners, and promise 24x7 power supply for the whole lane if solar panels are installed on reaching 75% household of that area.


Good idea whose time has come but yet to percolate to Power distribution companies/board/DISCOMs. There are many issues as of now.

It is being mandated to buy a part of power purchase from renewable sources. Tariff has to be fixed by all states. Some of them have done it. Interconnect and open access regulations have to be put in place. Smart Grid work is at slow pace as our transmission infrastructure at local area distribution leaves much to be desired.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby chaanakya » 27 Nov 2011 16:40

sum wrote:
SSS,

If you are using geyser. Strongly recommend Solar water heater, esp. in Hyderabad. The basic TATA/BP zing model is available for less than Rs 20,000 installed. My fathers bill dropped by 1/3 after installing his in Chennai.

We installed it at our place in B'luru 2 months back and it cost us ~35K ( including piping cost etc). This was after the 30% govt discount as part of a 1 month scheme!!!

You were charged extra unless you system is 300 LPD

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby SSSalvi » 28 Nov 2011 12:20

Theo_Fidel wrote:SSS,

If you are using geyser. Strongly recommend Solar water heater, esp. in Hyderabad. The basic TATA/BP zing model is available for less than Rs 20,000 installed. My fathers bill dropped by 1/3 after installing his in Chennai.

True Theo, I just did not think of that alternative. ( BTW I can't use any solar device at my ground floor house as it is sandwiched between two 3 storey buildings .. one on east and one west. :D :D )

Chanakyaji, 'subsidy is not given to manufacturer ' .. does it mean that manufacturer sells the water heater @ 30000 and the buyer gets it for 30000 but pays 20000 and govt pays the remaining 10000 to manufacturer?

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby chaanakya » 28 Nov 2011 16:06

SSSalvi wrote:
Theo_Fidel wrote:SSS,

If you are using geyser. Strongly recommend Solar water heater, esp. in Hyderabad. The basic TATA/BP zing model is available for less than Rs 20,000 installed. My fathers bill dropped by 1/3 after installing his in Chennai.

True Theo, I just did not think of that alternative. ( BTW I can't use any solar device at my ground floor house as it is sandwiched between two 3 storey buildings .. one on east and one west. :D :D ) ( tough luck)

Chanakyaji, 'subsidy is not given to manufacturer ' .. does it mean that manufacturer sells the water heater @ 30000 and the buyer gets it for 30000 but pays 20000 and govt pays the remaining 10000 to manufacturer?

Its a direct subsidy to users. It means that buyer pays full amount to the supplier (usually a dealer) , installs the equipment and gets the subsidy from concerned agency. However, supplier takes only part of the amount and rest after release of subsidy to keep it cost effective to consumer.But then he would overcharge the consumer to some extent on account of piping etc. That's not how this is supposed to work but well...

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 29 Nov 2011 03:17

SSSalvi wrote: True Theo, I just did not think of that alternative. ( BTW I can't use any solar device at my ground floor house as it is sandwiched between two 3 storey buildings .. one on east and one west. :D :D )


Do you get at least 2 hours of direct sunlight anywhere. The India sun is good for something! :D That is all you need for 1 hour hot shower everyday for family with a low flow fixture. IMO you should get at least 4-5 hours of direct sun even in that situation in Hyderabad. Esp. on the Southern most side. You could build a simple frame to raise the panels alone 10-15 feet up to get direct sun. I see this done all the time.
------------------------------------

WRT pricing I always notice that Bengaluru cats get stiffed over many things. Except beer prices.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 03 Dec 2011 10:39

Most amazing news. Rs 7.5 per unit for grid connected Solar. With Zero cost escalation for next 20 years!! This is incredibly cost competitive with Nuclear once interest costs are factored in. In fact it is lower. Next up coal power prices. About Rs 5 retail.

Think about that for a second. In 2030 this plant will be supplying India with electricity @ Rs 7.5 per unit. All other sources will be blown out of the water.

My relative at Neyveli tells me bids for about 6000MW total were submitted. All under Rs 9 per unit. This when only 350MW were available. Even the folks at Neyveli are a bit stunned by the pricing and the shear scale now possible in Solar.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-0 ... -says.html

India drew record-low prices for solar power in an auction today of permits to build about $700 million of plants as a supply glut in the industry drives down equipment costs.

Solairedirect SA, France’s second-largest solar power producer, bid to sell electricity from a photovoltaic plant at 7.49 rupees (15 U.S. cents) a kilowatt-hour to the government, Chief Executive Officer Thierry Lepercq said by telephone. That was the lowest bid, said Mohit Anand, senior consultant at Bridge to India Pvt., who was present at the closed-door session in New Delhi where the results were revealed.

“Manufacturers are keen to offer discounts because things are so competitive right now,” Anand said. “Costs are going down and that’s really reflected in these bids.”

The biggest contracts were won by Indian developers, including Welspun Group, Kiran Energy Solar Power Pvt., Azure Power, and the solar unit of Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd. (MM), Anand said. A phone call to the office of G.B. Pradhan, secretary at the Ministry of New and Renewable Energy, went unanswered.

The winners are required to buy solar cells domestically. India’s three largest traded makers of the cells used in solar panels are Indosolar Ltd. (ISLR), Moser Baer India Ltd. (MBI) and Websol Energy Systems Ltd. (WESL) Overseas manufacturers such as First Solar Inc. (FSLR) and Sharp Corp. may also benefit because their thin-film technology is exempt from the local sourcing rules.


Solairedirect’s price came in at less than half the government’s proposed rate. The spot price of solar panels fell about 40 percent this year as manufacturers, especially in China, ramped up production. Its offer is also 38 percent below the average bid in India’s first solar auction a year ago.

If prices continue to fall at the rate seen in India over the past 12 months, solar power may equal the cost of electricity generated by fossil fuels that’s sold to commercial businesses earlier than expected, Anand said. KPMG LLP predicted solar power would be as cheap as coal by 2017 in a May report.

uddu
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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby uddu » 05 Dec 2011 21:25

Something that can be followed in India, which has got the potential to solve the nation's power issues completely is this
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/energ ... 1ofjx.html

MORE than a million Australians now live in houses powered by solar panels and the nation is on track to generate one-fifth of its energy from renewable sources by 2020, a report released overnight at the United Nations climate change talks in South Africa shows.

About 9.6 per cent of Australia's energy was produced from renewable sources in the 12 months until September, up from 8.7 per cent the year before.

Driven by state feed-in tariffs, rooftop solar panel installation grew exponentially, with just over 500,000 households and an estimated 1.2 million people now meeting at least part of their daily energy needs from the sun.
The number of panels has grown 35 times over since 2008, the Clean Energy Council's report shows, based on data from the electricity grid broken down into the different postcodes, though the breakneck growth is expected to slow as tariffs are reduced.

''There will be a slowdown in the short term but the medium and long-term outlook is for very strong growth for household solar systems,'' the director of the Clean Energy Council, Kane Thornton, said.

Solar power has already reached ''grid parity'' - where a household pays the same price per kilowatt of energy for either solar or coal-fired energy - in some parts of NSW and Queensland. Full grid parity across most of Australia is expected to be a year or two away.

suryag
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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby suryag » 05 Dec 2011 22:28

I am really at sea thinking as to how the French company above can quote Rs 7.5/Kw. The cheapest cells themselves cost 50-64 Rs/Wp. Chaanakya ji what is the black magic here ?
Last edited by suryag on 06 Dec 2011 00:53, edited 1 time in total.

nelson
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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby nelson » 06 Dec 2011 00:24

suryag wrote:I am really at sea thinking as to how the French company above can quote Rs 7.5/Kw. The cheapest cells themselves cost 0.5-0.64/Wp. Chaanakya ji what is the black magic here ?


the winning bid quoted Rs 7.5/KW.Hr (unit of electric energy - KiloWatt.Hour) whereas the cost of solar cell your are quoting is 0.5 to 0.64 $/Wp (unit of electric power -Watt peak). so, no 'black magic' here.

suryag
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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby suryag » 06 Dec 2011 00:53

Thanks Nelson(I have edited my earlier post to put the right set of units), I wanted to write 50-64 Rs/Wp. That is the going rate now, this is also only the cost of the solar cell, if you look at it from a panel costing perspective it could go upto 72-75Rs/Wp. I presume they are using used cells to get to 7.5 Rs/KWh

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 06 Dec 2011 04:23

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-0 ... -says.html
The average bid of the 28 winning projects was 8,780 rupees. That’s a nearly 30 percent drop from the average solar power rate set by India’s first auction last December and 35 percent above India’s wholesale price of coal-based electricity on Dec. 2, according to prices on the Indian Energy Exchange.

------------------------------------------------------
List of winners.

http://www.bridgetoindia.com/images/sit ... inners.pdf

Heres a full list including losers.

http://www.renewableenergymagazine.com/ ... f_NVVN.jpg

chaanakya
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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby chaanakya » 06 Dec 2011 10:47

suryag wrote:I am really at sea thinking as to how the French company above can quote Rs 7.5/Kw. The cheapest cells themselves cost 50-64 Rs/Wp. Chaanakya ji what is the black magic here ?

5 to 6 crore per MW is a reasonable cost now and that means half the price quoted earlier ( 18 cr to 11 crore ). By rough calculation it should give price of 8 rs per unit. Going by Moser Baer experience, their 5 MW plant at Sivganga is doing better than expected so break even time is less for them. I think French company is going to put up plant in Rajasthan which has insolation throughout the year.Govt has setup Solar radiation Monitoring stations (51 in all) all over the country. You can access data here This will show you that Rajasthan has highest potential followed by TN ( almost 10 months or 300 days). So they would end up making profit. Govt would also invest in RE Grid infrastructure to evacuate power to main i.e. National Transmission Grid. so that evacuation cost would be cheaper.

Theo, Peak power purchase price including penalty for overdrawal is about 8-10 rs So it can be said that peak power purchase parity is already achieved with this round of bidding. Your target of 2017 seems nearer now.


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