Solar energy in India

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hnair
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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby hnair » 03 Sep 2012 10:38

Gaurav_S wrote:Noobie question here. I see many developed countries use solar panels on national highways to maintain proper signage, lighting etc. to increase safety. Is there any state which has done more towards installing solar panels in this manner? Installing solar panels, signage that doesn't need much maintenance (as we are not good at maintaining) should be encouraged. Though I fear if solar panels installed in such way will be there after few weeks as they won't be dirt cheap. :evil:


Gaurav_S-saar, though not highways, Trivandrum has solar powered intersections at most main city routes. They are apparently synchronized for smooth traffic flow, depending on the traffic volume. This sub-contract was a part of the bigger TCRIP (Tvpm, City Road Imp Proj) and was implemented by the state electronics firm, Keltron. IIRC, the lights are low-maintenance LEDs and only battery-backups (which is again connected to grid as a secondary backup during low-light rainy days) needs to be monitored for issues (for which they have some GPRS based system).

As for your second part of the question about pilferage, the idea is to keep the panels above tree-tops, so the lay-thief can't easily hacksaw it. Usually these lights are installed in well-patrolled arterial roads with CCDs. So even at night, there are folks watching, with backup rushed in. Here is a thread in SSC, that has a few photos

And yes, you get ticketed (a paltry 100Rs, but still a hassle to pay up at the counter) for jumping red-lights by mail and reported to RTO (so next time renewal of RC needs a clean slate). Friend of mine got one sent to his FIL, in whose name the car was registered. Double infamy amongst our circle :lol: That does not prevent an occasional mujahid, who is glad to pay the 100 for the thrills

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Pratyush » 03 Sep 2012 11:00


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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Vipul » 16 Sep 2012 02:57

Power-starved Bihar lights up with cheap solar panels.

Daily wager Bijendra Sao is fussing about at Exhibition Road in Patna to shop for his daughter’s dowry. The doting father wants the best that he can afford—a solar panel that can power two compact fluorescent lamps (CFLs) and a table fan. What better gift to give in a state that suffers perpetual power crisis. And what better place to shop for but the world’s biggest off-grid solar market that does an annual business of Rs 500 crore.

Sao is spoilt for choice here. This one-kilometre road has numerous narrow bylanes that cater to the energy needs of people with all pocket sizes. Solar lanterns and streetlights, besides panels of all makes and sizes, are hoarded in matchbox-sized shops. A 75 watt panel can cost from Rs 2,500 to Rs 10,000.

After half an hour of hectic negotiations, Sao pays Rs 3,200 for a 75 watt panel that has a two-year warranty. He is lucky, for a warranty is hard to get with underwatted panels. These do not give as much power as they promise. A 75 watt panel of a standard brand would have cost at least Rs 7,000.

The flourishing solar market is the result of a grim reality Bihar faces. The state needs 3,500 Mw, but supplies only 1,595 Mw through self-generation and by procuring it from other states, says Rajmohan Jha, deputy director of Bihar Renewable Energy Development Agency (BREDA).

The shortfall makes the state a perfect market for off-grid energy products, he says. “Bihar gets 300 days of good sunlight in a year. It has off-grid photovoltaic potential of 7,300 MW,” says Sudhir Kumar of World Institute of Solar Energy (WISE), a non-profit in Pune. No wonder, Bihar has quietly replaced the expensive diesel generated power option with solar energy and become the third largest solar user in the country, according to Census 2011.

A garment shop in Jandaha, Vaishali, has hoarded the much-in-demand solar panels.

The state government, however, has shown little interest in encouraging solar energy and has never initiated a programme for rooftop off-grid solar power. In 2011, it formulated a renewable energy policy which approved 175 Mw grid-connected solar projects. But the policy has no clarity on off-grid solar. “This is why few entrepreneurs have shown interest,” says Harish K Ahuja of Moser Baer, solar panel manufacturer. No work has been initiated under the Centre’s Remote Village Electrification Programme which started in 2004. The programme promises its beneficiaries subsidised rooftop off-grid solar systems. “If government has a programme that promises subsidised solar equipment, people with low purchasing power will not have to buy underwatted equipment,” says Ahuja.

Happy with little
Trying to compete at the thriving Exhibition Road market, companies are taking solar equipment closer to villages. Every block in all the 38 districts of the state has its own small Exhibition Road, says Ramadheer Singh, retailer at Jandaha block in Vaishali district. Every shop, be it for clothes or stationery, also stocks solar equipment. “Panels manufactured by TBP are the cheapest and sell the most, despite being underwatted and without warranty,” says Bachchu Singh, retailer at Jandaha. A 75 watt TBP panel, the name of which sounds similar to that of the well-known Tata BP, may give only 30 watts power. Yet, it gives tough competition to Tata BP that offers a 20-year warranty.

“I don’t care if the panel gives me less power than it promises. It suits my pocket and I get as much power as I require,” says daily wager Saroj Kumar, living in Jagdeeshpur village in Vaishali. A good quality panel is beyond his reach.

Earlier, Saroj used to pay Rs 100 every month for a diesel generator to illuminate a 10 watt CFL for four hours and to charge his mobile phone. This works out to Rs 83 per unit, perhaps the highest per unit energy cost in the country. At present, Saroj’s panel is working well. But not all have such happy stories to narrate.

When Rakesh Rai bought a cheap solar panel in Jagdeeshpur for Rs 3,500 a year ago, it could illuminate a CFL and at times a table fan. Six months later, the CFL gives dim light for not more than an hour. “The panel is not charging properly,” he says. Rai is back to using kerosene for light that costs around Rs 200 per month. “I cannot complain because I bought the panel knowing it was of poor quality,” he says.

Substandard choice
Solar market in Bihar is flooded with underwatted panels made in Hyderabad and Mumbai. “We tell companies what we need—cost, wattage and warranty years. We can choose the brand name. It could be your name, for instance,” says a dealer requesting anonymity.

Hyderabad-based Surana Ventures is one such company, he says. Incidentally, the Ministry of New and Renewable Energy (MNRE) has accredited Surana Ventures to make panels under the Jawaharlal Nehru National Solar Mission.

Fifty per cent of the state’s solar market is captured by those who make inferior equipment. A retailer in Patna can sell 50 cheap panels even on a bad day. In the past five years, Tata BP’s monopoly over the solar market has dropped by almost 70 per cent, says Piyush Agrawal, dealer at Exhibition Road.

“Consumers are being openly duped. If they know that a 75 watt panel gives only 40 watt power, they will buy a good quality 40 watt panel at almost the same price, and it will even have warranty,” says Agrawal. “In villages, retailers push for underwatted panels because they get high profit margins,” says Amrendra Kumar, senior sales executive at Tapan Solar Energy Pvt Ltd, a Delhi-based solar manufacturer that sells equipment in Bihar.

Bad experiences with solar power can lead to the misconception that solar energy is faulty, fear some renewable energy experts. “This may affect its acceptance in the future,” worries Manish Ram, renewable energy analyst with non-profit Greenpeace India. It recently released a report that presents Bihar as a model state for decentralised renewable energy systems.

Ram says government should ensure that all panels adhere to the standards set by MNRE. “But the standards apply only to panels supplied under government programmes. Thus, we have no control over the market,” says a BREDA official on condition of anonymity.

Those who have the money buy good quality panels. Raj Kumar runs a confectionery shop from his house at Salha village in Vaishali. A year ago, he bought an 80 watt Luminous panel with a 10-year warranty for Rs 6,000. It lights a 15 watt CFL in his shop and two 10 watt CFLs and an 18 watt fan at home. “It is good to buy panels with warranty. At least I can get it replaced if it stops functioning. It also gives the promised power,” he says.

Power shortage in the state has worked to profit some others. Jagdeep Kumar of Araria village in Vaishali is not very rich. He thought of a novel idea that could earn him some bucks. After saving money for two years and borrowing some from friends, he bought six 80 watt Tata BP panels and created a small grid on his rooftop. The grid brightens up the lives of 50 households every evening. For four hours, each house can light an 8 watt CFL. Jagdeep charges them Rs 75 every month. He expects to recover the Rs 1 lakh installation cost in about five years.

At present, what Bihar desperately needs is a strong policy push that provides off-grid energy solutions, says Kumar of WISE. Without it, cheap solar markets like the one at Exhibition Road are the only hope for the power-starved state. Good or bad, it’s what people in the state have learnt to depend on.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 05 Oct 2012 23:23

I don't agree however that we can do this without pumped storage but 3% of land area sounds about right. Most of the is could be unusable land as well.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 39583.aspx

India's energy needs can be met entirely by solar and other renewable sources, says a new study by two professors at the Indian Institute of Science (IISc) in Bangalore. Their report published in the journal Current Science may add ammunition to the anti-nuclear agitation in
India.

The analysis by Hiremath Mitavachan and Jayaraman Srinivasan of IISc's Divecha Centre for Climate Change overturns the argument that nuclear power is essential for India because the country does not have enough land to exploit the potential of solar energy in India.

According to their study, 4.1 percent of the total uncultivable and waste land area in India is enough to meet the projected annual demand of 3,400 terawatt-hour (TWh) by 2070 by solar energy alone (1 terawatt-hour per year equals 114 megawatts). The land area required will be further reduced to 3.1 percent "if we bring the other potential renewable energy sources of India into picture", they claim. They conclude that land availability is not a limiting constraint for the solar source as believed.

They say their calculations are based on present-day solar photovoltaic (PV) technology and do not include higher efficiencies achieved by new solar cells. Neither have they considered roof-top PV systems that can be established without any need for additional land.

The IISc researchers' conclusion is in conformity with that of a report prepared last year by the Australian government which said: "There is more than enough suitable land in India, with high direct beam solar, to meet the entire nation's electricity needs in principle."

Convinced that sunlight differs from other energy sources in the way it uses the land, the researchers compared the land-use pattern of three primary energy sources - coal, nuclear and hydro - with solar energy. They then calculated the percentage of India's land area that would be required to meet the future projected energy demand.

Coal power plants not only transform the land around the facility but also require land for mining coal and its upstream processing, the authors note. An average dam displaces 31,340 persons and submerges 8,748 hectares of land. The direct land footprint of a nuclear power plant includes power plant area, buffer zone, waste disposal area and the land that goes into mining uranium.

"Our study shows that solar power plants require less land in comparison to hydro-power plants and are comparable with coal and nuclear energy power generation when life-cycle transformations are considered," Srinivasan said.

While nuclear and fossil fuel-based technologies must continuously transform some land to extract the fuels or dispose of the waste, this is not the case with solar plants. In fact, the same land used for PV solar power plants can be utilised for other purposes like grazing.

The roof-top solar power technology, along with that proposed by IISc professors, "will be able to meet most of the electricity demand, and has the potential to transform the power sector," says Shankar Sarma, a power policy analyst and author of forthcoming book "Integrated Power Policy."

Atul Chokshi of the IISc Department of Materials Engineering and an expert on solar energy agrees. He reported recently that a three kilowatt rooftop solar panel system on the 425 million households can generate a total energy per year 1900 TWh - half of the projected energy demand by 2070.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby nandakumar » 06 Oct 2012 08:27

Theo_Fidel wrote:I don't agree however that we can do this without pumped storage but 3% of land area sounds about right. Most of the is could be unusable land as well.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 39583.aspx

India's energy needs can be met entirely by solar and other renewable sources, says a new study by two professors at the Indian Institute of Science (IISc) in Bangalore. Their report published in the journal Current Science may add ammunition to the anti-nuclear agitation in
India.

The analysis by Hiremath Mitavachan and Jayaraman Srinivasan of IISc's Divecha Centre for Climate Change overturns the argument that nuclear power is essential for India because the country does not have enough land to exploit the potential of solar energy in India.

According to their study, 4.1 percent of the total uncultivable and waste land area in India is enough to meet the projected annual demand of 3,400 terawatt-hour (TWh) by 2070 by solar energy alone (1 terawatt-hour per year equals 114 megawatts). The land area required will be further reduced to 3.1 percent "if we bring the other potential renewable energy sources of India into picture", they claim. They conclude that land availability is not a limiting constraint for the solar source as believed.

They say their calculations are based on present-day solar photovoltaic (PV) technology and do not include higher efficiencies achieved by new solar cells. Neither have they considered roof-top PV systems that can be established without any need for additional land.

The IISc researchers' conclusion is in conformity with that of a report prepared last year by the Australian government which said: "There is more than enough suitable land in India, with high direct beam solar, to meet the entire nation's electricity needs in principle."

Convinced that sunlight differs from other energy sources in the way it uses the land, the researchers compared the land-use pattern of three primary energy sources - coal, nuclear and hydro - with solar energy. They then calculated the percentage of India's land area that would be required to meet the future projected energy demand.

Coal power plants not only transform the land around the facility but also require land for mining coal and its upstream processing, the authors note. An average dam displaces 31,340 persons and submerges 8,748 hectares of land. The direct land footprint of a nuclear power plant includes power plant area, buffer zone, waste disposal area and the land that goes into mining uranium.

"Our study shows that solar power plants require less land in comparison to hydro-power plants and are comparable with coal and nuclear energy power generation when life-cycle transformations are considered," Srinivasan said.

While nuclear and fossil fuel-based technologies must continuously transform some land to extract the fuels or dispose of the waste, this is not the case with solar plants. In fact, the same land used for PV solar power plants can be utilised for other purposes like grazing.

The roof-top solar power technology, along with that proposed by IISc professors, "will be able to meet most of the electricity demand, and has the potential to transform the power sector," says Shankar Sarma, a power policy analyst and author of forthcoming book "Integrated Power Policy."

Atul Chokshi of the IISc Department of Materials Engineering and an expert on solar energy agrees. He reported recently that a three kilowatt rooftop solar panel system on the 425 million households can generate a total energy per year 1900 TWh - half of the projected energy demand by 2070.

Theo Fidel
Is it possible to have industrial capacity invertors to store energy during the day for supply during the night? I raise this question because pumped water storage may pose its own logistical challenges.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 07 Oct 2012 04:56

nandakumar wrote:Theo Fidel Is it possible to have industrial capacity invertors to store energy during the day for supply during the night? I raise this question because pumped water storage may pose its own logistical challenges.


I'm sure it is. But is it cost effective? Esp. on grid wide scale. There will be the inevitable days of rain and clouds, then what.
No, there is no option but to depend on large scale storage. Maybe the molten salt systems could take some of the strain. Right now molten salt CSP costs roughly $ 4 Billion per 1,000 MWhr of installed capacity.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby vina » 08 Oct 2012 10:09

Right now molten salt CSP costs roughly $ 4 Billion per 1,000 MWhr of installed capacity.

:rotfl: :rotfl:

No wonder solar and wind and other folks who drink their own cool aid are in cloud cuckoo land. So to have 24 hrs of power out of solar, you need to build atleat THRICE the capacity (assuming that only 8 hrs of usable supply is available) and then you need to have ultra expensive storage to be able to use it for the other 16 hrs!

Case in point, wind power. Southern TN is in the grip of a SEVERE power cruch, with folks getting little power and that too very intermittently and at odd hours. How is that ? Coz wind power (where South TN has the largest installed base in the country), is available only for 6 months in a year! What about the other 6. Good question!

Now you know why Koodankulam is vitally imporant and will happen, come what may. Not delivering power is lot more expensive in votes than the lunatic nutter anti nuke and turn coat collared folks sponsored agitations. The politicos know that math really really well and the anti Koodankulam folks have zero public sympathy in any of the "ideological" opposition. Sure, they must insist on EVERY safety precaution and requirement. Beyond that, they lose the audience.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby nandakumar » 08 Oct 2012 13:59

An intersting news report on industrial size capacity intervertor using solar power. See the link below.
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/tod ... 975345.ece
The article is a little short on economics/cost-benefit analysis of such inverters. But still presenting it for what it is worth. May be someone can throw more light on it.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Uttam » 08 Oct 2012 18:39

vina wrote:
No wonder solar and wind and other folks who drink their own cool aid are in cloud cuckoo land. So to have 24 hrs of power out of solar, you need to build atleat THRICE the capacity (assuming that only 8 hrs of usable supply is available) and then you need to have ultra expensive storage to be able to use it for the other 16 hrs!



Agreed, right now the technology for energy storage does not make economic sense. However, given the shortage of generation capacity in India and the fact that solar can be used to ameliorate the shortage during peak hours (day time), and the fact that the price of solar cells and wind turbines have come down recently, solar and other alternate energy source have started to make sense. Agreed, these cannot yet replace more reliable and perennial sources like nuclear. However, they can certainly complement them.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 08 Oct 2012 20:25

Vina saar is still living in the 60's when the Nuclear miracle was going to liberate India, blah blah blah.....
Nuclear has its place but will never be more than a niche. I never understood the need for the Nuclear Ayatollahs to cr@p all over solar/wind.

I would not go so far as saying the storage costs do not make economic sense. Right now molten salt storage for CSP works out to a 50 Paise per kw up charge. This is not a crippling expense.

The key problem for Solar/Wind in India is that money now cost 10%+ per annum for them, while GOI effectively subsidizes KKNPP type projects with 0% type financing. If Solar/Wind had the same 0% cash available, progress would be much faster.

I think Solar/Wind can more than complement. Forget this rhetoric. Long term Solar+Wind is the only large scale energy option we have. After 25 years of crippling investment KKNPP will add 900MWhr capacity to the TN grid. For most of the past 6 months Wind has been generating 2,500 MWhr to 3,500 MWhr on average with occasional low spots and occasional spurts to 4,500 MWhr. In 5 years time when the next 6000 MW of wind capacity planned comes online it will be generating 5,000 MWhr+ on average. Right now TNEB limits addition because of grid issues. This number is going to keep rising till TNEB realizes that there is effectively no upper ceiling to that number. Just the first phase of offshore wind on a small stretch of the coast projects 6,000 MW of wind power addition. TNEB must deal with intermittency by storing the excess.

The other key problem with the Southern grid is that it lacks proper connectivity to the North and to the Ghats. During the windy season most of the time the wind generators produce so much power it can not be evacuated to the grid. This is a Failure of TNEB. Ideally this excess would be stored to use now when wind generation has declined. This is entirely predictable and happens like clock work but TNEB refuses to deal with the situation.

With molten salt storage CSP functions essentially 24x7. Smaller 20 MW plants are already online that demonstrate this. Right now the US is building about 10-15 large CSP plants that will showcase the technology.
India too is slated to have about 700 MW of CSP come on line by the end of 2013. Again there is effectively no upper limit to this capacity other than waste land area, compared to others.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby chaanakya » 08 Oct 2012 21:16

Hi Theo , when you are going to install Miniature nuclear power plant we were told about in the other thread? Any way you should protect yourself from exploding solar panels. :D

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby nakul » 08 Oct 2012 21:29

^^^

Don't worry, he can explain how 3% of India's land can be acquired while GoI is struggling with Kudankulam. GoI deserves a helping hand.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 08 Oct 2012 22:11

That is not correct either.

Latest estimate was Solar/Wind needs 3% of land area. This was posted earlier in the first article for those who want to read. This is not dissimilar to the 5,000 acres Kudankulam has acquired for its output level.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby nakul » 08 Oct 2012 22:47

You want 2.4 crore acres for 387000 MW? :rotfl:

That is 5.7 lakh acres for 9200 MW i.e. Kudankulam NPP :shock:
5.7 lakh == 5000 :mrgreen:

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 10 Oct 2012 21:04

Chaanakya,

Don't forget to add to your list the 'solar panels are going to cause global warming' argument that went on for page after page recently. All because they are not green in color. By self described prominent folks no less. For pages and pages simple concepts like emissivity and reflectance baffled such folks. Simple numbers on the these concepts were pooh poohed as irrelevant. Zero attachment to reality and how the real world applies itself to creating real things.
------------------------------------------

Meanwhile... ...the private sector continues to drop the cost of CSP, thankfully the PSU dinosaurs are not involved.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/com ... 981788.ece

Reliance Power has raised external commercial borrowings of around Rs 1,588 crore ($302 million) to fund its 100 MW solar power project in Rajasthan.

The company has achieved financial closure for the largest concentrated solar power (CSP) project at Dhursar in Rajasthan’s Jaisalmer district. The 100-MW plant is being built adjacent to India’s largest thin film PV Project, the 40-MW photovoltaic project, commissioned by the company in March.

Rajasthan Sun Technique, a wholly owned Reliance Power subsidiary, is developing the CSP project at a total cost of over Rs 2,250 crore ($400 million), mostly through ECBs.


Reliance Power had awarded the solar field contract to Areva Solar Inc as its solar technology partner.
The project uses the Compact Linear Fresnel Reflector technology developed by Areva Solar.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 10 Oct 2012 21:36

Since it needs to be said….

The latest estimate of the cost of one of the Jaitapur reactors is running at about $6 Billion per 1000 MWhr of capacity. The ones in Finland are costing well over this BTW despite starting over 15 years ago with lower initial costs. The internal chatter from DAE says that the discussion with AREVA began at an incredible $8-$10 Billion per 1000 MW due to additions and ‘improvements’ to the design.

Even at $6 Billion per 1000 MWhr the cost is a staggering Rs 30,000 crore per 1000 MW.

Per the Reliance number the cost of the Solar technology from the same AREVA for 1000 MW works out to 22,000 Crore. Keep in mind the costs have already dropped in half over the last 10 years and all research indicates that costs can drop by 50% again as we scale up and you can see which technology costs less upfront.

The only difference at this point is Nuclear with 70% Plf, vs Solar with 22% plf. Long term though solar does not have decommissioning problems and even our children’s children 200 years from no will be getting cheap clean electricity vs risking their lives to decommission another highly contaminated waste site.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby krisna » 11 Oct 2012 07:05

Do We Need Subsidies for Solar and Wind Power?
This is about khanate.

The federal tax credit for wind-power producers will expire at the end of this year unless Congress extends it. There is widespread agreement that pulling the plug on the subsidy at this point could hobble the wind-power industry. Meanwhile, the biggest federal subsidy for solar power, a tax credit for 30% of the cost of installed equipment, is set to drop to 10% at the end of 2016. A cash grant for up to 30% of solar equipment costs expired at the end of last year.

The contentious issue has both sides
Proponents say wind and solar subsidies are needed for a few more years to allow these clean, renewable sources of energy to develop to the point where they can compete on price with electricity produced from coal and natural gas. But opponents of the subsidies say that they simply cost too much, and that the supposed benefits of wind and solar power are overstated.

Read all.
Image

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby member_23677 » 11 Oct 2012 21:59

^^^ Umm.. why has this been posted here? There is a general solar energy thread if I am not wrong, it should be posted there IMVHO.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Amber G. » 11 Feb 2013 04:26

Something for India too to pay attention..
Solar industry grapples with hazardous wastes
Few excerpts (Please read the whole article for context)
While solar is a far less polluting energy source than coal or natural gas, many panel makers are nevertheless grappling with a hazardous waste problem. Fueled partly by billions in government incentives, the industry is creating millions of solar panels each year and, in the process, millions of pounds of polluted sludge and contaminated water.
To dispose of the material, the companies must transport it by truck or rail far from their own plants to waste facilities hundreds and, in some cases, thousands of miles away.
<snip>

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 11 Feb 2013 06:51

^^^
Just to be clear the article above is about the energy cost of processing the manufacturing waste materials. Though this is not particularly difficult and right now companies are shipping it elsewhere for processing. The hazardous level of the waste materials is not the issue. For instance in the USA, diesel fuel if spilled on the ground is considered Hazardous/Toxic waste and must be shipped for processing.

This maybe a form of downhill skiing as well, from the previous claims of exploding solar panels....
-----------------------

Meanwhile TANGEDCO has demanded that successful bidders must match a price of Rs6.38 per kw. Predictably most are quibbling. The officers managing this process need to be changed. It is obvious they are clueless.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby SaiK » 11 Feb 2013 08:34

well, what is India doing?
will other countries use India as dumping ground?

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Mort Walker » 18 Feb 2013 17:25

Theo_Fidel wrote:This maybe a form of downhill skiing as well, from the previous claims of exploding solar panels....

No one talked about exploding solar panels. What you fail to understand is that PV use cadmium and other toxic material that has to be processed or dumped.

Solar power is part of the mix with NG, coal, nuclear, and wind. Given the efficiency of solar power, it will always be for some unique or niche applications, such as in India where many homes already have inverters and battery systems.
You also need to take in to account how efficient PVs are after time as well. Some of the cheap Chinese PVs really lose their efficiency.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Best_Research-Cell_Efficiencies.png

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 20 Feb 2013 23:05

Since you asked here is the relevant quote. At the risk of starting a pi$$ing contest feast your eyes…..

Amber G. wrote:
My guess (actually much more than a guess) would be, per KWH, cleanup cost after a blowup , for current Solar panels would be of the order of 100 times (or more) a typical nuclear one.


So yes, exploding solar panels was the claim....
-------------------

Meanwhile.....

That is not correct either. Cadmium is only used for certain types thin film panels which are less than 10% of the market mostly in commercial power stations. The rest are other types like CIGS, CSi, etc. Also processing cadmium waste is not a particularly difficult task. It is a Level 1 hazardous waste and can be disposed of in a municipal sanitary landfill.
-----------------------

The criticism of intermittency is not new but is valid. They are well known how ever and many solutions exist to overcome the issue. I highly recommend the NREL website to look at various scenarios and options discussed.

http://www.nrel.gov/

It is unfortunate that we do not have the equivalent here in India. Anil Kakodkar was tasked and instructed to set one up and promote Solar but instead has been gallivanting around the country making various outrageous claim for Nuke power. And we wonder why our babu's have low credibility....

member_20292
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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby member_20292 » 20 Feb 2013 23:07

^^^

theo ji ,


i'd like to send you e khat.

how do i reach thou , if you please?

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 20 Feb 2013 23:23

-delete-
Last edited by Theo_Fidel on 21 Feb 2013 00:22, edited 1 time in total.

chaanakya
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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby chaanakya » 20 Feb 2013 23:24

Memories are short hence bananas and Nuts are needed.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 21 Feb 2013 04:04

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/com ... 400546.ece

Reliance Industries’ Chairman Mukesh Ambani, owner of world’s largest oil refinery, today said solar power will be at the core of the shift in future source of energy needs — from hydrocarbon to renewable.

“We will transit from hydrocarbon presence which is coal, oil and natural gas over the next many decades into a fully renewable, sustainable future and the solar really will be at the heart of it,” Ambani said in an interview with CNN International.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 22 Feb 2013 10:18

AP has had a good response and an overbid situation. Lets see if TN learns its lessons from this. It is increasingly obvious the babus in charge in TN are quite clueless.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... ar-analyst

Hyderabad-based climate change consulting firm EfficientCarbon said about 184 firms bid for AP's solar tender for a total cumulative capacity of 1.40 GW. This figure is yet to be confirmed by the state's power distribution utility AP Transmission Corporation. In comparison, only 92 firms bid for 0.5 GW in Tamil Nadu. "This is mainly because of more time for commissioning of projects and the receptive nature of AP's state utility in addressing developers' concerns," said Bharat Bhushan Agrawal, solar analyst with Bloomberg New Energy Finance.

Industry experts said AP handled its bidding process better, giving more leeway in terms of pricing and project completion. Also, APTransco's reputation for clearing payments is much better than that of its counterpart in Tamil Nadu, Tangedco.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Javee » 22 Feb 2013 12:57

Theo, I would be surprised if Tangedco even pay the investors at all, given that wind mill owners are yet to receive payments for power sold for the last 14 months.

A MW costs anywhere from 7-10 crores, I dont see anyone willing to borrow money and invest for the elcheapo price that Tangedco is offering.
The avg unit price on the bid was Rs.8.6/kWh, while tangedco sets the target at 6.48/kWh. Now if you borrow money inside India, this is unworkable. If you form JV with manufacturers in the US, may be we can get a cheap 3-4% loan and then this will work.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 22 Feb 2013 21:21

I think they will get paid. The question is when....
The bidders themselves were very nervous about this issue and ended up making very cautious bids of 5 MW or so. It is hard to know what the babu's in charge in TN are thinking, they made every mistake possible in this bid. They continued making mistakes in the pre-bid and post bid period as well. Do they want solar projects or not?

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Dileep » 23 Feb 2013 11:16

The 1KW Rooftop solar system project of GoK got around 4500 applicants. The plan was 10,000.

I had applied, but jumped the gun and installed a unit outside that project. Should have waited for the project to come through. I trusted the sarkari inefficiency, and paid the price.

The installed cost of a 1KVA/1KWp unit is around 1L. I paid 1.7L.

The initial promise was 2.5L to be paid, and 1.1L to be refunded. That was not attractive. But when the details came out, it was "just pay the net amount to the supplier (which varies from supplier to supplier. Cheapest is 90K)" and it was net cost for a std installation! But the standard is real low, so you will end up paying 5K or more for additional.

:evil: :evil:

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 23 Feb 2013 12:02

Dileep,

That is sad to hear. Talk to your supplier, sometimes they can post date the receipts to get the discount if you get approved. That is a low price for a full system.
-----------------------------------

Meanwhile...
Rajasthans bids are in and the cost decline and overbidding continues....

Lowest price is Rs 6.45

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/new ... 410613.ece

Essel Mining, which wants to put up a 10 MW solar photo voltaic plant and supply the power to Rajasthan Renewable Energy Corporation, has quoted Rs 6.45 a kWhr.

(Although, in a similar tender in Tamil Nadu a bidder (Mohan Breweries) had quoted Rs 5.97 a unit, Tamil Nadu’s tender has a 5 per cent annual escalation for 10 years.)

Rajasthan’s tender for purchase of solar power from 100 MW of capacity has attracted 23 qualified bidders with total bid capacity of 185 MW. The highest rate quoted is Rs 8.25 a KWhr. Seventeen of the bidders have quoted rates less than Rs 8, and 12 of them Rs 7.50 or below. Four bidders have offered to sell solar-generated electricity at rates of Rs 7 or below.

However, the bidders will be asked to match the lowest price (L-1, which is Rs 6.45). “Since the allocation of projects will be based on the L1 quoted tariff, the big question will be how many of the bidders will accept the L1 rate,” says Madhavan Nampoothiri, Director, RESolve Energy Consultants.

Solar power tariff has been plummeting, from an average rate of Rs 12.16 a unit for 140 MW under the National Solar Mission Batch I bidding, to Rs 8.77 a unit for 340 MW in Batch II to further lower levels in various State tenders.

disha
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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby disha » 27 Feb 2013 10:31

Theo_Fidel wrote:Dileep,

That is sad to hear. Talk to your supplier, sometimes they can post date the receipts to get the discount if you get approved. That is a low price for a full system.

....


Is it not illegal to post date a receipt? Are you advising on this forum that it is okay to do an illegal thing to take advantage of a scheme? Again the scheme is not like a poor person going hungry. Is it?

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Prem » 28 Feb 2013 05:37

Not Solar but wind Power
Suzlon Energy Wins Order for 49 Wind Turbines From India’s ONGC

Suzlon Energy Ltd. (SUEL) won an order to install 49 wind turbines from Oil & Natural Gas Corp. (ONGC), India’s biggest energy explorer. ONGC will buy Suzlon’s S88 2.1-megawatt turbines to be set up in the north western state of Rajasthan, Suzlon, India’s largest wind-turbine maker, said in an e-mailed statement today. Suzlon, based in Pune, will complete the project in the financial year ending March 31, 2014. It had earlier set up 51 megawatts in Gujarat for ONGC, according to the statement.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 10 Mar 2013 09:07

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/t ... 488714.ece

As many as 29 firms have been chosen by the Tamil Nadu Generation and Distribution Corporation (Tangedco) for putting up solar power plants of an aggregate capacity of 226 megawatt (MW).
The price at which the Corporation will solar power from the proposed plants will, in the beginning, be Rs. 6.48 per unit. The plants will come up in different districts including Ramanathapuram, Sivaganga, Tuticorin, Virudhunagar, Karur, Vellore, Tiruvannamalai and Kancheepuram.
In Andhra Pradesh too, a similar price has been arrived at, says an official. [The Andhra Pradesh government came out with a policy document in September last]. A few days ago, the Corporation, at its meeting of Board of Directors, approved the selection.
Once the Tangedco issues Letters of Intent soon, the developers will have, effectively, nine months to commission their plants. Going by this schedule, the plants should be in place by January 2014.


http://www.solarserver.com/solar-magazi ... v-csp.html

The Indian state of Karnataka has released a request for proposals (RFP) for 130 MW of solar photovoltaic (PV) and concentrating solar power (CSP) projects.
The solicitation will use a reverse bidding process, against a benchmark tariff of INR 14.5 (USD 0.266) per kWh for PV and INR 11.3 (USD 0.207) for CSP. Bids must be entered by March 28th, 2013.
Limit of 10 MW per bidding group
The use of the reverse bidding process is notable, given that many states have chosen to use the L1 bidding process instead.
Developers can bid on any number of projects, but will be awarded no more than 10 MW per bidding group, in projects 3 – 10 MW in capacity.

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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby VinodTK » 11 Mar 2013 02:24

Gujarat’s sprawling solar fields outpower rest of India, China
AHMEDABAD: There is a dazzling field of mirrors that you can find near the vast saltpans of the Little Rann. It is like a sparkling oasis in the desert — much like a gleaming silver screen covering the vast desolate white sand around.

This is Charanka village in Patan, where over 2,965 acres, rows of photovoltaic cells or solar panels have been laid out to harness the sun. They are generating 214 MW of electricity every day—more than China's 200 MW Golmund Solar park.
:
:
:

Javee
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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Javee » 11 Mar 2013 04:54

Theo,
Just heard from tea kadai, only a 194 MW will be realized out of 1000 MW initially envisaged by the govt. Looks like people are going for private solar parks, the biggest problem is the power starved areas do not have evacuation capacity or the capacity is available close to the cities where the land prices are exorbitant.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Theo_Fidel » 16 Mar 2013 02:18

Javee hopefully this helps. There is 40,000 acres of roof in Greater Chennai area alone. Unlike USA our roofs are concrete, so simple brace will be OK. Also we can have shade....

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/t ... epage=true

As part of the policy, the consumers would be offered a generation based incentive (GBI) of Rs. 2 per unit for the first two years; Re 1 per unit for next two years and 50 paise per unit for the subsequent 2 years.

This would apply to all solar power units or solar-wind hybrid rooftop installations set up before March 31, 2014.

Out of 3,000 megawatt (MW) expected to be added through solar power by 2015, roof-top installations account for 350 MW, of which 50 MW will be from domestic consumers, says the Policy document.

Solar purchase obligation

As the policy has prescribed solar purchase obligation (SPO) for commercial establishments of low-tension category and high-tension consumers including special economic zones and information technology parks, the order states that in the event of any of these consumers not complying with the SPO norms, a fee, called “forbearance price,” will have to be paid by defaulters to the Tangedco, which is the administrator of the SPO.

member_20317
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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby member_20317 » 17 Mar 2013 00:07

Dileep wrote:The 1KW Rooftop solar system project of GoK got around 4500 applicants. The plan was 10,000.

I had applied, but jumped the gun and installed a unit outside that project. Should have waited for the project to come through. I trusted the sarkari inefficiency, and paid the price.

The installed cost of a 1KVA/1KWp unit is around 1L. I paid 1.7L.

The initial promise was 2.5L to be paid, and 1.1L to be refunded. That was not attractive. But when the details came out, it was "just pay the net amount to the supplier (which varies from supplier to supplier. Cheapest is 90K)" and it was net cost for a std installation! But the standard is real low, so you will end up paying 5K or more for additional.

:evil: :evil:



What kind of usage can be supported by this kind of installation?

Vipul
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Re: Solar energy in India

Postby Vipul » 17 Mar 2013 21:01

Welspun Energy commissions largest solar project in Asia.

Welspun Energy today said it has commissioned Asia's largest solar power project in Rajasthan ahead of schedule.

India's biggest developer of solar projects commissioned 50-megawatt solar power plant at Jodhpur district.Welspun, which had earlier this year started a 15 MW unit at the site, has now commissioned two more units of 15 MW and 20 MW solar generator, the company said in a statement.The "utility-scale solar project" was commissioned "in an astounding five months; well ahead of schedule, creating a new benchmark for the industry," it said.

"Welspun Energy is committed to supplying clean energy to power India's growth. This 50 MW solar project is an achievement for us," said Vineet Mittal, co-founder & Managing Director Welspun Energy Ltd. This is the largest solar project to be developed by Welspun Energy till date and is also the largest PV power plant in India.

The entire 50 MW solar project, located near Phalodi, Jodhpur District was developed in three phases of 15 MW, 15 MW and 20 MW. The PV project will generate total electricity of 90 million kWh or units annually and supply clean energy to power 25 million families.With the commissioning of this project, an estimated 83,220 million tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions will be mitigated each year.

"Completion of this project before schedule and at a lower than budgeted cost demonstrate Welspun Energy's expertise in solar project development," he said. The company had won the 50 MW solar project through a competitive bid under Batch-2, Phase-1 of the Jawaharlal Nehru National Solar Mission.

Welspun was the only company to have been awarded a maximum capacity of 50 MW under this scheme, making this the largest project in India. The company has become the largest solar power developer in India with over 300 MW solar and wind projects on the ground.

The New Delhi-based firm is setting up 750 MW of solar power and 1 gigawatt of wind power plants across India.Welspun Energy is part of the USD 3.5 billion Welspun Group, which has interests in power generation, infrastructure, exploration and production of oil and natural gas, steel pipes and textiles.


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