Re: Solar energy in India
Posted: 14 Nov 2016 11:20
The names on the image are Japan, Mongolia and India
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Images have been released showing the sheer size of a new solar power plant in southern India.
The facility in Kamuthi, Tamil Nadu, has a capacity of 648 MW and covers an area of 10 sq/km.
This makes it the largest solar power plant at a single location, taking the title from the Topaz Solar Farm in California, which has a capacity of 550 MW.
The solar plant, built in an impressive eight months, is cleaned every day by a robotic system, charged by its own solar panels.
At full capacity, it is estimated to produce enough electricity to power about 150,000 homes.
The project is comprised of 2.5 million individual solar modules, and cost $679m to build.
The new plant has helped nudge India's total installed solar capacity across the 10 GW mark, according to a statement by research firm Bridge to India, joining only a handful of countries that can make this claim.
As solar power increases, India is expected to become the world's third-biggest solar market from next year onwards, after China and the US.
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A transformation is happening in global energy markets that’s worth noting as 2016 comes to an end: Solar power, for the first time, is becoming the cheapest form of new electricity.
This has happened in isolated projects in the past: an especially competitive auction in the Middle East, for example, resulting in record-cheap solar costs. But now unsubsidized solar is beginning to outcompete coal and natural gas on a larger scale, and notably, new solar projects in emerging markets are costing less to build than wind projects, according to fresh data from Bloomberg New Energy Finance.
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“Renewables are robustly entering the era of undercutting” fossil fuel prices, BNEF chairman Michael Liebreich said in a note to clients this week.
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The world recently passed a turning point and is adding more capacity for clean energy each year than for coal and natural gas combined. Peak fossil-fuel use for electricity may be reached within the next decade.
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Still, the buildup of wind and solar takes time, and fossil fuels remain the cheapest option for when the wind doesn’t blow and the sun doesn’t shine. Coal and natural gas will continue to play a key role in the alleviation of energy poverty for millions of people in the years to come.
“The main power grid runs on AC, but solar panels run on DC. So if you can run the LEDs on DC, then you don’t lose efficiency in converting to AC,”
This is why I think we should stay away from building more coal power plants because I have a strong gut feeling that within 10 years, any power plant new or old will become quickly obsolete.pankajs wrote: <snip>
“Renewables are robustly entering the era of undercutting” fossil fuel prices, BNEF chairman Michael Liebreich said in a note to clients this week.
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The world recently passed a turning point and is adding more capacity for clean energy each year than for coal and natural gas combined. Peak fossil-fuel use for electricity may be reached within the next decade.
That will change once we figure out the battery/energy storage issues.pankajs wrote:Still, the buildup of wind and solar takes time, and fossil fuels remain the cheapest option for when the wind doesn’t blow and the sun doesn’t shine. Coal and natural gas will continue to play a key role in the alleviation of energy poverty for millions of people in the years to come.
Natural gas, yes, but not coal.pankajs wrote:Coal and natural gas will continue to play a key role in the alleviation of energy poverty for millions of people in the years to come.
There are 3 important factor that will play role in figuring the mix. The most important factor i.e the Demand in a country like India is given.Hitesh wrote:Natural gas, yes, but not coal.Coal and natural gas will continue to play a key role in the alleviation of energy poverty for millions of people in the years to come.
Based on what you say, I would say that the solar aspect offer the most energy security. The sun has been here for 5 billion years. And it will continue to be here for another 5 billion years. It is estimated that we will have 1 billion years of usable solar energy before the sun starts heating up and inflating (Whether we as the human race in its current form will be here in 1 billion years is another debate). Compared that to our coal reserves which is estimated to last only 80 years based on our current consumption rate. You tell me which option offers the most energy security.pankajs wrote:There are 3 important factor that will play role in figuring the mix. The most important factor i.e the Demand in a country like India is given.Hitesh wrote:
Natural gas, yes, but not coal.
1. Energy cost
2. Environmental impact
3. Energy security
Ignore Cost for the moment. Even when NG is better than coal from the environmental pov it is difficult to ignore the energy security aspect. In India's case coal is abundant while NG is mostly imported.
Taking energy security into account, a significant portion of our fossil fuel dependence will have to come from coal. We do not live in an ideal world and our energy solution has to be capable of withstanding external shocks. There is simply no other option unless NG is discovered within India on a massive scale.
The only other alternative is to pray for a massive advancement in the Solar and storage/battery tech.
It seems that this plant occupies 1700 hectares but I cannot locate the cost. Anybody has details?The Atacama 1 solar complex was proposed as a 110 MW solar thermal electric plant (the first in Latin America) and a 100 MW photovoltaic plant. The solar thermal plant will include 17.5 hours of thermal storage. These technologies complement each other to supply clean and stable energy 24 hours a day. The complex is located in the commune of María Elena, Segunda Región. Construction of the solar thermal electric plant commenced in 2014 and the plant is scheduled to begin operating in the second quarter of 2017. Construction of the photovoltaic plant commenced in January 2015 and the plant began operating in June 2016 with 160 MW of panels, the largest solar plant in Chile at the time.
Concerning highlight {1} my post was clear "a significant portion of our fossil fuel dependence will have to come from coal." My last sentence was "The only other alternative is to pray for a massive advancement in the Solar and storage/battery tech." That seems to me clear enough.Hitesh wrote:Based on what you say, I would say that the solar aspect offer the most energy security. The sun has been here for 5 billion years. And it will continue to be here for another 5 billion years. It is estimated that we will have 1 billion years of usable solar energy before the sun starts heating up and inflating (Whether we as the human race in its current form will be here in 1 billion years is another debate). Compared that to our coal reserves which is estimated to last only 80 years based on our current consumption rate. You tell me which option offers the most energy security.{1}
As for natural gas, we can trade with Bangladesh for access to its natural gas field (Bangladesh is estimated to have 14.3 trillion cubic feet of natural gas in its reserves and produce 2,700 million cubic feet per day) and we have Bay of Bengal to consider. See the news article here: http://www.ibtimes.co.in/india-us-disco ... gal-687934. {2}
In my opinion, natural gas is a much better short term bet than coal.
Hitesh, we have to factor in the manufacture of solar panels and the raw materials available within India for the same.Hitesh wrote: Based on what you say, I would say that the solar aspect offer the most energy security. The sun has been here for 5 billion years. And it will continue to be here for another 5 billion years. It is estimated that we will have 1 billion years of usable solar energy before the sun starts heating up and inflating (Whether we as the human race in its current form will be here in 1 billion years is another debate). Compared that to our coal reserves which is estimated to last only 80 years based on our current consumption rate. You tell me which option offers the most energy security.
Why do we have to become dependent on China for solar panel availability? We can manufacture them. As for the raw materials, China is not the only place with rare earth minerals. There are other plenty of land that has rare earth minerals, Afghanistan being one of them. We can secure our own energy security through the development of local solar panel and battery manufacturing.ssundar wrote:Hitesh, we have to factor in the manufacture of solar panels and the raw materials available within India for the same.Hitesh wrote: Based on what you say, I would say that the solar aspect offer the most energy security. The sun has been here for 5 billion years. And it will continue to be here for another 5 billion years. It is estimated that we will have 1 billion years of usable solar energy before the sun starts heating up and inflating (Whether we as the human race in its current form will be here in 1 billion years is another debate). Compared that to our coal reserves which is estimated to last only 80 years based on our current consumption rate. You tell me which option offers the most energy security.
Most of India is blessed with a lot of sunlight. But, if India becomes dependent on China for solar panel availability, it does not meet the test of energy security.
You are making my point exactly. Securing the supply chain involves an international geopolitical strategy amidst so much uncertainty. India has not been aggressive about building these international relationships at least until 2014.Hitesh wrote: Why do we have to become dependent on China for solar panel availability? We can manufacture them. As for the raw materials, China is not the only place with rare earth minerals. There are other plenty of land that has rare earth minerals, Afghanistan being one of them. We can secure our own energy security through the development of local solar panel and battery manufacturing.
That is what the Modi government is doing. The danger is committing to various treaties to "green" energy when it may not be economically viable to do so. As an analogy - in 1963, the Nehru government blindly signed the Partial Test Ban Treaty (PTBT), but later governments did not sign the CTBT. This allowed India to test below ground, but the deterrent would have been more effective if India did not sign the PTBT and did actual above ground tests to confirm the destruction efficacy of its TNWs and as a psychological shock.Compared to that, coal can show results faster. So, it would be safe to bet that any good government will pursue both coal and solar, with solar being the longer term option.
this was the case till some 5 yrs, these days even towns in boondocks receive uninterrupted electricity. The national grid is today much more well connected, and SEB's can tide over shortages by buying power from surplus states. Power surplus states are happy to sell power because they get better margins by selling on grid to highest bidder. Only states with high T&D (theft) have issues in supplying uninterrupted power.Mort Walker wrote: In India we have an unreliable electric grid and poor power transmission infrastructure, which makes the price of power expensive.
China was supplying most of the rare earth minerals because they were cheap and all others shut shop and found it convenient to import from china. But once china played truant, others may have diversified by now.Hitesh wrote:Why do we have to become dependent on China for solar panel availability? We can manufacture them. As for the raw materials, China is not the only place with rare earth minerals. There are other plenty of land that has rare earth minerals, Afghanistan being one of them. We can secure our own energy security through the development of local solar panel and battery manufacturing.ssundar wrote:
Hitesh, we have to factor in the manufacture of solar panels and the raw materials available within India for the same.
Most of India is blessed with a lot of sunlight. But, if India becomes dependent on China for solar panel availability, it does not meet the test of energy security.
You are correct, it has gotten better in the last 3-4 years particularly, but is still unreliable outside of 2nd and 3rd tier cities.habal wrote:this was the case till some 5 yrs, these days even towns in boondocks receive uninterrupted electricity. The national grid is today much more well connected, and SEB's can tide over shortages by buying power from surplus states. Power surplus states are happy to sell power because they get better margins by selling on grid to highest bidder. Only states with high T&D (theft) have issues in supplying uninterrupted power.Mort Walker wrote: In India we have an unreliable electric grid and poor power transmission infrastructure, which makes the price of power expensive.
I disagree with your assessment that securing the supply chain involves a deliberate international geopolitical strategy and that there is great uncertainty. There is no strategy needed because China already upset the apple cart and now companies and countries are scrambling to set up an international supply chain where rare earth minerals could be mined easily. And there is no uncertainty about it because the entire world knows that rare earth mining is an economic imperative and must be free from one nation taking hostage. Rare earth mineral mining is not confined to one region. It can be found in a lot of regions all over. We just have to look for it. In the past, we didn't look for it because it wasn't too high on our list of priorities. Now it is, I am sure there are many exploration companies looking for such rare earth minerals since there is existing great demand for them now. We need to get into the driver's seat and be in the front of this advance so we can control our destiny.ssundar wrote:You are making my point exactly. Securing the supply chain involves an international geopolitical strategy amidst so much uncertainty. India has not been aggressive about building these international relationships at least until 2014.Hitesh wrote: Why do we have to become dependent on China for solar panel availability? We can manufacture them. As for the raw materials, China is not the only place with rare earth minerals. There are other plenty of land that has rare earth minerals, Afghanistan being one of them. We can secure our own energy security through the development of local solar panel and battery manufacturing.
Compared to that, coal can show results faster. So, it would be safe to bet that any good government will pursue both coal and solar, with solar being the longer term option.
NEW DELHI: Solar power tariffs have fallen to Rs 2.97 per unit with Mahindra Renewables, Acme Solar and Solenergi Power Pvt Ltd bagging contracts to set up one unit each of 250-mw in the Madhya Pradesh government's 750-mw Rewa ultra mega solar park.
This is a quoted price tariff and not operational cost - I remain skeptical of this cost until the plant is in operation. We also don't know where the panels are coming from and could be Chinese panels which have been known to degrade quickly. So three companies each will build a capacity of 250 MW. The quoted figure is 250 W/m^2, so 750 MW would be about a 3 Km square of panels. The panels need not be adjacent to each other to allow for drainage and sunlight to reach below to allow limited use of the land, so we're looking at an area roughly 4 Km square. None of the articles talk about battery storage. The idea is to sell power to the Delhi Metro since Rewa is at the northern border of MP adjacent to UP. I would rather this solar park reduce the load on the grid in the area where farmers can use the power to run pumps to get water from rivers and wells.Uttam wrote:http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/energy/power/solar-power-tariffs-fall-to-rs-2-97-per-unit/articleshow/57085143.cms
NEW DELHI: Solar power tariffs have fallen to Rs 2.97 per unit with Mahindra Renewables, Acme Solar and Solenergi Power Pvt Ltd bagging contracts to set up one unit each of 250-mw in the Madhya Pradesh government's 750-mw Rewa ultra mega solar park.
Probably not. I am assuming your total power expense to be in the range of Rs 30K per year. Hard to recover that, if you take into account interest rates etc. It has to do with utilization during winter.jamwal wrote:Bhai log, I need some advice and guidance for this solar thing. I have some roof space (Delhi) which can be utilised for installation of solar panels. Eletricians, contractors etc are suggesting inverters for power backup, but I am more interested in solar.
Would it make sense considering the initial investment ? My power bills range from INR 5000 in peak summer to INR 400 in winters.
Jamwal'ji., how much do you consume in terms of KWh. Not in terms of bills., but in terms of total consumption. Also since your major use of electricity is in summer., you can break it down into three components, daily average for the entire year, monthly average and average every 3 months starting from Jan. Like Jan-March (spring), April-June (Summer), July-September (Monsoon) & October-December (Winter). Also daily averages for that period.jamwal wrote:Bhai log, I need some advice and guidance for this solar thing. I have some roof space (Delhi) which can be utilised for installation of solar panels. Eletricians, contractors etc are suggesting inverters for power backup, but I am more interested in solar.
Would it make sense considering the initial investment ? My power bills range from INR 5000 in peak summer to INR 400 in winters.
Or some manufacturer can license battery tech and start making lithium batteries in India itself.guru.shetty wrote:With 1kwh, on a Nissan Leaf sized car gives you 6 km. So effectively you are looking at 50 paisa per km cost. Unfortunately, India does not allow import of lithium ion batteries without huge tax. So India will have to wait for a few more years for EV industry to take off.
India Will Become World’s 3rd Largest Solar Market This YearStating that India has already achieved 12,200 MW of solar capacity so far, Union power minister Piyush Goyal today reiterated that the country is well poised to reach its target of 100 GW capacity by 2022.
"The country's solar power generation capacity was 2,600 MW in 2014 and it has now jumped to 12,200 MW now," Goyal said at an event here.
India is set to overtake Japan as the world’s third-largest solar power market this year, a Taiwanese research firm has predicted.
According to EnergyTrend, the global solar PV demand is expected to remain stable at 74 gigawatts this year while India is expected to see sustained growth. The research claims that growth in China’s solar PV demand is expected to reduce slightly as the government has a lower capacity addition target compared to the last year.
Solar power in the world’s second largest market — the United States of America — may fall out of favor given the political scenario. Meanwhile, in Japan the government is expected to continue to reduce feed-in tariffs, possibly leading to a dent in investments.
India, on the other hand, is expected to contribute 14% to the global solar PV demand as the government continues to push for a very ambitious installed capacity target of 100 gigawatts by 2022. The target translates into 90 gigawatts of capacity addition over the next five years.
India recently crossed the 10 gigawatt installed solar capacity mark. EnergyTrend expects the south Asian country to add another 10 gigawatts this year. The government, for its part, expects to add 20 gigawatts over the next 15 months.
In a bidding held for the 500-Mw Bhadla solar power park in Rajasthan, domestic company ACME won the top slot by quoting Rs 2.44 a unit for 200 Mw. It was closely followed by SoftBank Energy with Rs 2.45 for 500 Mw. As the tender followed a bucket-filling method, ACME will build 200 Mw and SBG Energy 300 Mw. The park is being developed by IL&FS.
Government officials pointed out this rate was lower than the average coal-based price and the grid parity price for solar to match with coal. This rate was closer to spot power price as well.
The tariff in Bhadla has been fixed for 25 years with no escalation and the bidders have sought no viability gap funding from the government, officials said.