FDI in Retail

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
member_20292
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2059
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby member_20292 » 13 Dec 2011 22:38

VinayB wrote:
harbans wrote:Recap from the Bizarre to the hilarious here we go are the reasons here why FDI in retail is such a bad thing:


Why cant this be fixed without FDI?
The government of Madhya Pradesh allowed ITC to procure from farmers directly in 2004, and it turns out now the government of MP is competing with private players in streamlining its procurement process. Link - http://business.in.com/printcontent/782

can we read that and explain how that was possible without FDI? That ofcourse is not a you-pee-yay government.


This is because of competition. Govt gets its act together because of competition.

Now, if you have other, more firms competing, it will , via a similiar mechanism, force everyone to get its act together to an even greater extent.

STOP DISCRIMINATING AGAINST AND FOR INDIAN AND FOREIGN COMPANIES.

the colour of the cat does not matter as long as it catches the mice.

Let India have the freest and fairest system in the world and be a magnet for people from all over the world to come and setup companies.

If Indians can go setup Sun microsystems and Hotmail without the govt of the US spouting some nonsense about how many founders need to be american and how much percentage of the money put in being american and how much foreign....then foreigners need to be able to do that in India as well.

Else, people will always migrate to the richer nations where you can do more things with your own time.

look at singapore. In the absense of human and material resources, it has built itself into a very friendly place for businesses to run and people to trade. Again from 500 $ per capita per annum in 1950, it is richer than the US on a per capita basis today. THAT, my dear friends, is the power of a free economy with few, well executed boundaries.

If you dont have wealth and good roads and a good system of dealing with corruption, and good electricity, the VERY least you, as a nation can do is to open yourself up to immigration and FDI (same thing in different words), to the world.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby harbans » 13 Dec 2011 22:57

So we allow money magicians who create money out of thin air, which has no real asset backing it, to buy valuable assests in name of FDI. How about selling your house and business to me in exchange of paper money printed by me. I promise to renovate your home and diversify your business.


Upendra do you think you are making an iota of sense? For this country to get anywhere near prosperity, your kind of thinking must be uprooted and ridiculed frankly. Your representing any Institution is fraught with failure. Your kind of retarded thinking and logic is nothing but fraught in doom, poverty. From what i gather by your posts you are some Babu pushing and blocking files, or a small time leftist politician types raving against something sensible and spouting non sense..may your tribe decrease.

kumarn
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 16:19

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby kumarn » 13 Dec 2011 22:59

Upendra wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:but south korea's development has interesting lessons for india - particularly about focus on education and infrastructure...
they are however a much more disciplined society than us... that also makes a big difference


is making money more important than independence?

once independence is lost that money can be snatched anytime the ruler wants.


And if your people are poor, uneducated, unhealty - that is, have the worst social indicators - you will lose your independence anyway.

Upendra
BRFite
Posts: 192
Joined: 11 Sep 2011 13:14

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby Upendra » 13 Dec 2011 23:50

harbans wrote:
So we allow money magicians who create money out of thin air, which has no real asset backing it, to buy valuable assests in name of FDI. How about selling your house and business to me in exchange of paper money printed by me. I promise to renovate your home and diversify your business.


Upendra do you think you are making an iota of sense?


What doesn't make sense to you? Care to explain what real asset, dollar or euro is backed against?

harbans wrote:For this country to get anywhere near prosperity, your kind of thinking must be uprooted and ridiculed frankly.

You tried and failed, try again.

harbans wrote:Your representing any Institution is fraught with failure.

Why? care to explain.

harbans wrote:Your kind of retarded thinking and logic is nothing but fraught in doom, poverty.

Anyone who wont follow your lunatic economic policies is retarded, well done. this is the way to accept defeat, throw abuses and run away.

harbans wrote:From what i gather by your posts you are some Babu pushing and blocking files, or a small time leftist politician types raving against something sensible and spouting non sense..may your tribe decrease.


Shows your utter failure to comprehend my posts, more accusations and abuses. I asked a straight question, what about corrupt babus arbitrarily changing FDI rules? If you have the courage answer my question.

Upendra
BRFite
Posts: 192
Joined: 11 Sep 2011 13:14

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby Upendra » 13 Dec 2011 23:52

kumarn wrote:And if your people are poor, uneducated, unhealty - that is, have the worst social indicators - you will lose your independence anyway.

If you want to live in a golden cage move elsewhere.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby harbans » 13 Dec 2011 23:54

And for those that are talking about Higgs Boson..

GENEVA: Scientists said on Tuesday they had found signs of the Higgs boson, an elementary particle believed to have played a vital role in the creation of the universe after the Big Bang.

Scientists at the CERN physics research centre near Geneva said, however, they had found no conclusive proof of the existence of the particle which, according to prevailing theories of physics, gives everything in the universe its mass.


Signs of Gods Particle found

An example of how expertize between different countries can be mutually beneficial to Science.

kumarn
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 16:19

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby kumarn » 13 Dec 2011 23:59

Upendra wrote:
kumarn wrote:And if your people are poor, uneducated, unhealty - that is, have the worst social indicators - you will lose your independence anyway.

If you want to live in a golden cage move elsewhere.


Thanks for your gratuitous advise. I have moved back to India from the US of A and intend to make desh in a rich, glorious land in my own way. And don't worry, I am confident enough we will not lose independence in the pursuit. Alas, confidence in oneself and one's countrymen is something that is non-transferable.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby harbans » 14 Dec 2011 00:02

Shows your utter failure to comprehend my posts, more accusations and abuses. I asked a straight question, what about corrupt babus arbitrarily changing FDI rules? If you have the courage answer my question.


What do you want me to answer there? I am of the opinion that India should have had 100% FDI in retail a long time back. What FDI rules are you talking? The 30% compulsory sourcing bit?
I don't care about that rule. In a few years time manufacturing would improve bounds led by entrepreneurs in India that the 30% minimum would be redundant. Competition has not killed the true Indian entrepreneur. Policies like what you are trying to push have killed entrepreneurship in India. That's why it's impossible for you to lead a company or to be an entrepreneur. You're teh type who wants SOPS from the Govt or cosy quota's. Because that is what you push for.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby harbans » 14 Dec 2011 00:11

Anyone who wont follow your lunatic economic policies is retarded, well done.
t

They followed a part while reforming in the 90's. That put hundreds of millions out of poverty in India. Retards like you i argued all through the 80's and 90's who said we'd lose independence and EIC, Masons, NASA is on the way to capture our independence once again. We should have at the minimum started those reforms 7 years earlier. If we did , we would have a GDP of around 5 t USD> But retarded folks like you at that time too were against, and it was only when pushed to the wall that we did so.

That's why we loose 2 t USD every year as a result of lost growth. Incompetent, retarded, entrenched lobbyists like you prevented reforms. Your types are not the India saving fighting for independence types. Your type of thinking folks are the ones that are a burden now. The kind of retarded thought you bring out here is causing India more damage than any corruption scam till date.

Upendra
BRFite
Posts: 192
Joined: 11 Sep 2011 13:14

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby Upendra » 14 Dec 2011 09:40

harbans wrote:
Shows your utter failure to comprehend my posts, more accusations and abuses. I asked a straight question, what about corrupt babus arbitrarily changing FDI rules? If you have the courage answer my question.


What do you want me to answer there? I am of the opinion that India should have had 100% FDI in retail a long time back.


Shows your lack of mental abitlity to grasp simple matters. Allowing FDI wrecked the real estate sector, unreasonable high costs of apartments made them unviable for most buyers and then corrupt babus changed the FDI rules without consulting the parliament giving foreign companies full control of their indian subsidiaries. You dont understand these facts and go on blabbing like a kid demanding 100% FDI without understanding that it will wrecks the retail sector just like real estate sector. Now guess who is the retard? go on cry some more and call people names to satisy your ego. http://www.firstpost.com/blogs/sez-rule ... 46248.html

harbans wrote:What FDI rules are you talking? The 30% compulsory sourcing bit? I don't care about that rule. In a few years time manufacturing would improve bounds led by entrepreneurs in India that the 30% minimum would be redundant. Competition has not killed the true Indian entrepreneur.


manufacturing sector needs low cost labor and basic facilites like electricity. we are short of both, labor shortage caused by NREGA are well known. it's foolish to think somehow the indian entrepreneur will overcome these handicaps to compete with china price model businesses.

harbans wrote:Policies like what you are trying to push have killed entrepreneurship in India.


more babble

harbans wrote:You're teh type who wants SOPS from the Govt or cosy quota's.


Well I challenge the government to remove all sops and quotas, guess what? they wont because it serves their votebank, not me.

Upendra
BRFite
Posts: 192
Joined: 11 Sep 2011 13:14

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby Upendra » 14 Dec 2011 10:01

harbans wrote:
Anyone who wont follow your lunatic economic policies is retarded, well done.

They followed a part while reforming in the 90's. That put hundreds of millions out of poverty in India. Retards like you i argued all through the 80's and 90's who said we'd lose independence and EIC, Masons, NASA is on the way to capture our independence once again. We should have at the minimum started those reforms 7 years earlier. If we did , we would have a GDP of around 5 t USD> But retarded folks like you at that time too were against, and it was only when pushed to the wall that we did so.

That's why we loose 2 t USD every year as a result of lost growth. Incompetent, retarded, entrenched lobbyists like you prevented reforms. Your types are not the India saving fighting for independence types. Your type of thinking folks are the ones that are a burden now. The kind of retarded thought you bring out here is causing India more damage than any corruption scam till date.


keep chanting retard retard retard, maybe you will reach full retardation..... you are the one lobbying for FDI and then shamelessly turns around and call me a lobbyist, gives a whole meaning to the word retard.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby harbans » 14 Dec 2011 12:01

From your article:

The new interpretation given to Rule 11(9) is evidently in contradiction of the principles enunciated in Press Note 2 issued by the secretariat of industrial approvals, department of industrial policy and promotion, ministry of industry and commerce on March 3, 2005. The note clearly mentions that 100 per cent FDI is allowed only in new assets and not for trading in completed assets and that too on meeting certain prescribed criteria (relating to the size of the built-up area, the township and minimum quantum of investment, among others). These rules are apparently now being given the go-by.


What the rule says:

3. It is clarified that the provisions of Press Note 2 (2005 Series) shall not apply to Special Economic Zones; neither shall it apply to establishment and operation of hotels and hospitals which shall continue to be governed by Press Note 4 (2001 Series) and Press Note 2 (2000 Series) respectively.

(Umesh Kumar) Joint Secretary to the Government of India - F. No. 12/36/2005-FC dated 16 January 2006


http://www.cncindiafund.com/FDI%20Rules.pdf

So Press Note 2 (2005 series) as is being mentioned in the Article does not seem to govern SEZ, FDI Policy. The fundamental premise behind the article then is clearly wrong is it not?

Upendra
BRFite
Posts: 192
Joined: 11 Sep 2011 13:14

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby Upendra » 14 Dec 2011 19:40

harbans wrote:
3. It is clarified that the provisions of Press Note 2 (2005 Series) shall not apply to Special Economic Zones; neither shall it apply to establishment and operation of hotels and hospitals which shall continue to be governed by Press Note 4 (2001 Series) and Press Note 2 (2000 Series) respectively.

(Umesh Kumar) Joint Secretary to the Government of India - F. No. 12/36/2005-FC dated 16 January 2006


how can a babu arbitrarily decide this law shall not apply to SEZ's? Under which section does he have the power make such policy decisions?

this is the Minutes of the meeting mentioned in firstpost article

http://www.sezindia.nic.in/writereaddat ... 202011.pdf

Item No. 48.10: Clarification on issues related to dilution of equity in the developer company, transfer of promoter’s equity etc.

Board was informed that a number of cases seeking clarification on issues related to dilution of equity in the developer company, transfer of promoter’s equity, transfer of developer JV, amalgamation / merger of developer company etc are being received from various SEZs. Similar requests, which were considered in the BoA meeting held on 25th March 2011 were not approved as the representatives of D/o Revenue reiterated their objection that these transactions would amount to sale of the land, which is not permissible under the SEZ Act/Rules.

In light of representations received in this regard, the D/o Commerce sought legal advice of D/o Legal Affairs as to whether change in equity structure through transfer / sale / amalgamation etc. are in the nature of sale of land barred by rule 11(9) of the SEZ Rules or it is a sale of business rather than sale of land. D/o Legal Affairs have clarified that identity of a company does not change with any change in management or pattern of shareholding.

Further, a share is not a sum of money, it represents an interest measured by a sum of money.

Therefore, change in equity structure through transfer / sale / amalgamation etc. and consequent change in the management cannot be said transfer or sale of land. The land would continue to vest in the company. It has also been clarified that while it may be considered as sale or transfer of the business of the company but not a sale of land.

The Board accordingly accepted the above position and noted that in view of the above interpretation by D/o Law the requests of transfer of equity be approved subject to the following conditions:-
(a) Seamless continuity of the SEZ activities with unaltered responsibilities and obligations for the altered developer entity;
(b) Fulfillment of all eligibility criteria applicable to developers, including security clearances etc., by the altered developer entity and its constituents;
(c) Applicability of and compliance with all Revenue / Company Affairs /SEBI etc. rules which regulate issues like capital gains, equity change, transfer, taxability etc.


what this means is babus in legal affairs department used legalese to overrule objections of revenue department and cleared the sale of companies to foreign entities. People who drew up SEZ Act had the foresight to see these companies would be sold once completed, so they specifically put that rule to prevent such dealings, which now babus have managed to circumvent. The shady dealings of 2G scam which were done in 2003 only came to light in 2011 after the leak of tapes, i wonder how many more years will it take for SC to take a look in the workings of these babus who have managed to run their own little parliament, changing rules as deemed necessary by their paymasters.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby harbans » 14 Dec 2011 20:51

Upendra, from what i see, the article is clearly wrong if it's premise is wrong. Ultimately notifications are all given by some Babu sitting in some Office. So what the writer wrote is basically false and misleading. HE said clearly that Note applies to SEZs. I just showed that he was wrong. That press note 2 is not applicable to SEZs.

You want to start a topic on scam in the Real Estate sector and how FDI is taking over India by those means, please do. This is FDI in retail. And so far none of your arguments have held water. Your aim is to fear monger, and it won't work, simply because it is steeped in too many falsehoods and imaginary demons.

Your problem is simple, FDI is a 4 letter word for you. To others it spells opportunity, competition and growth. To you Status Quo is utopian. You have not offered any solutions here. Just asking questions and cribbing about business and FDI, NASA and the Masons.

So please do start your thread on the scam you and Guha have discovered in the Real estate sector and how FDI in real estate is destroying India.

Upendra
BRFite
Posts: 192
Joined: 11 Sep 2011 13:14

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby Upendra » 15 Dec 2011 19:11

harbans wrote:Upendra, from what i see, the article is clearly wrong if it's premise is wrong. Ultimately notifications are all given by some Babu sitting in some Office.

no babu can say this law wont apply in this case, he has no legislative power which rests only with parliament. you are the one who is wrong and yet fails to see it.

harbans wrote:So what the writer wrote is basically false and misleading. HE said clearly that Note applies to SEZs. I just showed that he was wrong. That press note 2 is not applicable to SEZs.

Says who? a babu who is covering for another babu

harbans wrote:You want to start a topic on scam in the Real Estate sector and how FDI is taking over India by those means, please do.

I dont need to, its self-evident what these babus have done, sold out the interests of many for the benefit of few.

harbans wrote:This is FDI in retail.

So what? FDI is a scam where the public allows these MNC's to setup shop, with no taxes imposed and preferential treatment and what do these MNC's do in return? corrupt babus and netas, changes laws to suit their company balance sheet, while the tax burden on public is increased. FDI is not needed whether in realty or retail sector.

harbans wrote:Your aim is to fear monger, and it won't work, simply because it is steeped in too many falsehoods and imaginary demons.

Like calling others traitor, holding the threat of china overtaking india or calling people retard, guess who did that? YOU

harbans wrote:Your problem is simple, FDI is a 4 letter word for you. To others it spells opportunity, competition and growth.

Who exactly are these others? corrupt netas, babus and their online lackeys lobbying for FDI to earn their fees. you want to sacrifice livelihood of millions of people so the elites can fatten their wallets and at the same time use this out of work mob to do the class warfare that they have planned for all these years. guess what? there are others who wont allow that to happen.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby harbans » 15 Dec 2011 20:57

Upendra, i'm not going to post any further on this. You already have a closed mind. You've already made your mind up about how NASA, Masons etc will gobble and devour everything. I am not a psychiatrist here to repair minds.

All i know is simple, if we take the examples of developing countries that provided a stable political platform and welcomed FDI, they all have developed and prospered. Examples: Japan, Korea, Taiwan.

Also i know since India opened it's doors to FDI and initiated the first set of reforms in 91 (people like you then also tirelessly opposed it for exactly the same reasons you dole out now: NASA, Masons, Jews, secret cabals etc), India has achieved a dynamic not seen prior 50 years and come out the so called 'Hindu rate of growth'.

Obviously only a retard will look to ending FDI. Only a retard would want to go back those pre 91 days. Only a retard will not see the benefits that have accrued since then and why. Only a retard will not understand what is being missed.

And 'Retard' here is a mild word. Those who hamper growth and reform by espousing left economic policy and isolation, surely deserve to be called treasonous if not retarded. The Commies do have a record of being such. And your point of view on FDI is completey in synch with the commie.

Upendra
BRFite
Posts: 192
Joined: 11 Sep 2011 13:14

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby Upendra » 15 Dec 2011 22:04

harbans wrote:Upendra, i'm not going to post any further on this. You already have a closed mind.


Dont post, but your boss wont be happy, afterall lobbying pays your bills. mark my words, you will come back spouting how-FDI-will-save-India line

harbans wrote:You've already made your mind up about how NASA, Masons etc will gobble and devour everything.

You fail both at mind reading and in understanding other people posts.

harbans wrote:I am not a psychiatrist here to repair minds.

Certainly you need one

harbans wrote:All i know is simple, if we take the examples of developing countries that provided a stable political platform and welcomed FDI, they all have developed and prospered. Examples: Japan, Korea, Taiwan.


Wrong, first they developed their home markets and then opened up. By stable political platform i guess you want to emulate the dictatorial political model, if yes then i suggest you move somewhere else.

harbans wrote:Also i know since India opened it's doors to FDI and initiated the first set of reforms in 91 (people like you then also tirelessly opposed it for exactly the same reasons you dole out now: NASA, Masons, Jews, secret cabals etc),

Those were not reforms, IMF and World Bank dictated economic changes that we had to implement in order to get loans they promised. That is called extortion. I never mentioned jews, you subtly insert it to try to play the anti-semitic card, pathetic liar.

harbans wrote:India has achieved a dynamic not seen prior 50 years and come out the so called 'Hindu rate of growth'.


Another catch word to initiate the guilt trip and get people opposing FDI to go on the defensive. listen you brainwashed moron, the term "Hindu rate of growth" was invented by a communist economist. Commies ran indian economic policies for the last 50 years and still run it, check the moronic schemes they have concoted, NREGA and like. If anyone is singly responsible for the sad state of economic affairs its the commies, so better start saying Commie rate of growth, or if that's not suitable for you how about sikh rate of growth, since sikh manmohan is running indian economy. Now how does that feels? Hurts isn't it? to be accused for no fault of yours. If you throw that catchword of yours again, i will throw mine, so be careful next time.

harbans wrote:Obviously only a retard will look to ending FDI. Only a retard would want to go back those pre 91 days. Only a retard will not see the benefits that have accrued since then and why. Only a retard will not understand what is being missed.


You are the one who wants to handover control of Indian economy to foreign interests and calls other retard, how moronic of you.

harbans wrote:And 'Retard' here is a mild word. Those who hamper growth and reform by espousing left economic policy and isolation, surely deserve to be called treasonous if not retarded. The Commies do have a record of being such. And your point of view on FDI is completey in synch with the commie.


Treason and retard, your pet words that you keep spouting for furthering foreign interests. Its your guilt conscious reflecting in your posts, you very well know who the real traitor and retard is.

Something for you to chew on. Every nation is protecting their home industries while you and your buddy babus are destroying ours.

Asking for fair play, not protectionism: AM Naik, L&T http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/opi ... 088926.cms
After the dismal factory output data added to the general gloom, ET NOW caught up with L&T boss AM Naik to make sense of the numbers, and what they mean for the industry and economy, going forward. Excerpts:

The data for the factory output for October has just come in and the capital goods sector has been the worst hit, a contraction of 25.5%. What do you make of these numbers?

Well, I had expected it because for the past one year I have been saying that the GDP growth will not exceed 7%, and now I'm doubtful whether the GDP growth next year would even be 6%. The reason is that as a capital goods manufacturer, project companies get to know first whether the future looks growth-oriented or not. Because people make investment a year or two ahead of what they need to because project implementation takes time -one, two, three years. So I had expected it. I have been saying since a year ago that industrial growth is slowing down, GDP is going to slow down, and had it not been for agriculture, it would have been far worse.

And this is bound to happen when the country's policy has gone beyond even the most advanced countries. If you really take a look at all the countries today, because of negative growth in majority of the world, they have become increasingly indigenous-manufacturing oriented. Take the case of Malaysia for instance -- almost everything in the trade agreement with them provides for importing from Malaysia with zero duty, whereas at the same time we cannot even compete there because it is only for domestic companies.

Saudi Arabia, for example, gives preference for local manufacturing. In its new policy, the country allows only local companies to bid for projects up to Rs 5,000 crore. And beyond Rs 5,000 crore, there will be a global pitch. We have everything now at zero duty, everything. And everything comes from China. I have been very vocal for the past three years on the issue of power plants being imported from China. Today, we have already completed imports for 12th and 13th five year plans.

When you follow such kind of policies when the rest of the world is becoming - I don't want to use the word protective - but more and more conscious of what is made in their own countries. We have the lowest duty in the world. Even Gulf countries have 12% duty. China has 30% duty. I'm not asking for protectionism, I'm asking for fair play. When you have a currency which is manipulated by China to the extent of 30% undervalued, no Indian company can compete. So it was expected, and I have been taking it up for three to four years, but nothing happened.

You mentioned that the capital goods sector is a very good barometer of what future growth will look like. What is your sense of what FY13 will look like for the capital goods sector and also the economy?

Next year - FY12-13 - it may go down to 6%, and unless there is some drastic action, which I doubt because of the current political situation, things may not look up. If it is not done - and obviously we need 12-18 months lead time before we get into production - FY13-14 could be equally bad. So, I think companies are being forced to look outside India. At one time, we were saying we don't have enough capacity, two years ago we were looking at growth of 9%. Today, there's idle capacity in most industries. Companies which will adapt faster outside India can survive.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby harbans » 15 Dec 2011 23:06

Another catch word to initiate the guilt trip and get people opposing FDI to go on the defensive. listen you brainwashed moron, the term "Hindu rate of growth" was invented by a communist economist. Commies ran indian economic policies for the last 50 years and still run it, check the moronic schemes they have concoted, NREGA and like.


Ever came to your mind (OK whatever little there is to it), that you've been espousing nothing but the Commie Economic POV? Proof? Your quote again below:

Those were not reforms, IMF and World Bank dictated economic changes that we had to implement in order to get loans they promised. That is called extortion.


That's exactly what the Left Commie Economist said then..

That's what i referred to as retarded and the loss of income to the nation as consequence to those policies as treasonous.

So get stuffed..

Upendra
BRFite
Posts: 192
Joined: 11 Sep 2011 13:14

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby Upendra » 15 Dec 2011 23:20

what no comments on interview of L&T chairman, go ahead call him traitor too. Well i guess you don't have the gumption to attack his opinion.

harbans wrote:
Another catch word to initiate the guilt trip and get people opposing FDI to go on the defensive. listen you brainwashed moron, the term "Hindu rate of growth" was invented by a communist economist. Commies ran indian economic policies for the last 50 years and still run it, check the moronic schemes they have concoted, NREGA and like.


Ever came to your mind (OK whatever little there is to it), that you've been espousing nothing but the Commie Economic POV? Proof? Your quote again below:

Those were not reforms, IMF and World Bank dictated economic changes that we had to implement in order to get loans they promised. That is called extortion.


Ever come to your mind (OK whatever little there is to it), that Commies are controlled opposition

harbans wrote:That's exactly what the Left Commie Economist said then..

That's what i referred to as retarded and the loss of income to the nation as consequence to those policies as treasonous.


According to you protecting our industries is treason and leads to loss of income and people who suggest this policy are retarded. well you don't understand the meaning of retard and treason. stop throwing your catch words picked from lobbyist handbook to drown the opposition to FDI.

harbans wrote:So get stuffed..

If you want i will come to stuff you proper

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby harbans » 15 Dec 2011 23:55

Upendra..'Get stuffed' means...'get lost'. It's not in the sense you refer.

I could say a lot of things in response, but i will let it go. This is the internet and a lot of retards like you get through and start spoiling threads with abuse. Nothing really big about that.

But once again, i will reiterate Retard and Treason were words i applied to those that want to inflict Commie economic ideas that have been proven failed, destroyed generations of entrepreneurship and perpetuated Poverty.

My purpose in responding to you..was that yes there are many who don't buy the Commie POV you espouse.

Bye.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 13494
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby Suraj » 16 Dec 2011 00:12

Upendra & harbans, please back off and cool down. You're both on thin ice here.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby harbans » 16 Dec 2011 00:36

Suraj Ji, i am quite happy being on thin ice if objecting to Free Masons, NASA, Secret cults, and 91 reforms being actually extortion are being espoused.

I got a name for that kind of thinking, and it's retarded and treasonous. If the Mods think that's being on Thin Ice..so be it.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 13494
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby Suraj » 16 Dec 2011 01:08

Harbans, if another person disrupts a thread in your opinion, please just report the post and move on. Emotionally picking a fight and namecalling in response does not help you.

Upendra
BRFite
Posts: 192
Joined: 11 Sep 2011 13:14

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby Upendra » 16 Dec 2011 09:12

harbans wrote:Upendra..'Get stuffed' means...'get lost'. It's not in the sense you refer.


http://idioms.yourdictionary.com/get-stuffed

What does "get stuffed" mean?
An only slightly politer version of fuc_k you.


from calling people treasonous and retards for opposing FDI, now you indulge in outright personal abuses.

harbans wrote:I could say a lot of things in response, but i will let it go. This is the internet and a lot of retards like you get through and start spoiling threads with abuse. Nothing really big about that.


Guess who is the one abusing here? YOU

harbans wrote:But once again, i will reiterate Retard and Treason were words i applied to those that want to inflict Commie economic ideas that have been proven failed, destroyed generations of entrepreneurship and perpetuated Poverty.


FDI is selling Indian economy to foreign interests which is treasonous.

harbans wrote:My purpose in responding to you..was that yes there are many who don't buy the Commie POV you espouse.

Even after i opposed commie economic policies you calling me a commie shows your lack of intelligence. commies are puppets used by the super rich to further their agenda. It's sad you still don't get it.

Finally respond to the interview of L&T chairman naik, let's see what you got to say.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby harbans » 16 Dec 2011 21:22

Finally respond to the interview of L&T chairman naik, let's see what you got to say.


Mr Naik is talking about import duty rationalization. Not FDI. Take a magnifying lass once again and read the topic: FDI in retail.

Upendra
BRFite
Posts: 192
Joined: 11 Sep 2011 13:14

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby Upendra » 16 Dec 2011 21:42

While busy getting stuffed you failed to read this.

Upendra wrote:Asking for fair play, not protectionism: AM Naik, L&T http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/opi ... 088926.cms
And this is bound to happen when the country's policy has gone beyond even the most advanced countries. If you really take a look at all the countries today, because of negative growth in majority of the world, they have become increasingly indigenous-manufacturing oriented. Take the case of Malaysia for instance -- almost everything in the trade agreement with them provides for importing from Malaysia with zero duty, whereas at the same time we cannot even compete there because it is only for domestic companies.

allowing FDI is suicidal, MNC retailers will buy from outside and easily import it into India thereby destroying local manufacturing. You fail to understand economic basics, only expert in abuses, now go back lass to your paymaster.

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5836
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby vishvak » 17 Dec 2011 10:50

harbans wrote:Mr Naik is talking about import duty rationalization. Not FDI. Take a magnifying lass once again and read the topic: FDI in retail.

Atleast there is a pointer that import duties are not rational. If a product is made/assembled from components across the world in a country where import duties are not as high as India (30% or more), why would anyone assemble anything in India?

Instead a product will be assembled where import duties are as less as probable, then export at the prices (with reduced imported duties) to India, so that after multiple import duties at foreign countries the actual cost will decrease. It means that the better products will not be assembled in India.

When I wanted to buy a laptop with as much raw power as possible & no dhinchak at all (no graphic card, no camera, no sound card even etc. thereby maximizing processing components at a given cost), I realized that the Indian Govt is taxing this processing laptops high even when the kind of laptops would be used for processing mostly i.e. productive use; which also meant that available range for a given price decreases much at 30% even for powerful PCs used only for production and no entertainment.

Example- the difference between professional laptop line at 30k and 30k+10k is huge, by standards of laptop component configurations viz. processor generation, RAM component, screen size in 10k price difference. This will increase even more for components, not decrease, as prices increase.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby harbans » 17 Dec 2011 15:04

Atleast there is a pointer that import duties are not rational. If a product is made/assembled from components across the world in a country where import duties are not as high as India (30% or more), why would anyone assemble anything in India?


Of course that is the point made by Mr Naik. It's got nothing to do with FDI though or India having reformed it's markets. Everyone is complaining about China's devalued currency and unfair trade practices, slave labor factories, not respecting copyrights etc. Trade balances are thus in favor of China . It's got nothing to do with investment in India towards cold storage facilities, processing units, logistics and supply chain systems.

Import duty rationalization would work much better in the organized sector than in the unorganized one. Today smaller retails too are importing almost everything from China including toys to Diwali lights and Ganesha statues. Does in no way imply Companies here don't want FDI or are against it.

Fact is the opposite. L & T, TATA's regularly ask the GOI for FDI approval including in Defence production sectors.

(Reuters) - Tata Steel, the world's No. 7 steelmaker, has received government approval to raise 11 billion rupees through issue of warrants to overseas investors, the Press Information bureau said in a statement on Thursday.


It also approved a proposal by EADS Deutschland GmbH and Larsen & Toubro for induction of 26 percent foreign equity for defence production, entailing FDI inflows worth 78 million rupees.

The government has okayed L&T Finance's proposal to bring in Rs 641 crores of FDI. This will pave the way for the L&T Finance IPO.

Speaking to CNBC-TV18, YM Deosthalee, CFO of L&T said the company will launch the taking into account the market conditions. “Our goal is to raise about Rs 1,500 crore,” he added.


http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/ipo-up ... 05170.html

http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/01/1 ... 8020110113

But then some folks as thick as manure and half as useful won't understand the difference.

nagesh
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 67
Joined: 28 Apr 2010 18:38

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby nagesh » 17 Dec 2011 20:18

Please .guys,u can make a point without hurling abuses..after all the ones opposed to your view-point is your fellow patriot brother,not a pakistani
http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisp ... px?id=2084

Upendra
BRFite
Posts: 192
Joined: 11 Sep 2011 13:14

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby Upendra » 17 Dec 2011 21:30

Even after bribing and bringing around RLD to UPA, manmohan is not confident of bulldozing retail FDI bill through parliament. Waiting to hear commentary from people selling manure as manna from heaven.

Ajit Singh's RLD joins UPA
The Rashtriya Lok Dal, with five members in the Lok Sabha, on Monday formally joined the United Progressive Alliance [ Images ] amid speculations that its chief Ajit Singh would be included in the Cabinet as the civil aviation minister.

With the RLD joining the ruling coalition, its strength has gone up from 272 to 277 MPs.


FDI in retail after assembly polls next year:Prime Minister Manmohan Singh
ON BOARD AIR INDIA ONE: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh Saturday said his government will take up for implementation the suspended cabinet decision on foreign equity in multi-brand retail after consulting all parties after elections next year to the various state assemblies.

"We have to evolve a broad-based consensus and we will work towards that. It's my hope that once the elections to the various state assemblies, which are in the offing, are over, all political parties can sit together, and we will then explore with them the possibilities of implementing the decision, which is placed on hold," he said.

Manmohan Singh was interacting with media persons on board his special aircraft while returning home from Moscow after attending a summit meet with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.


manmohan knows voters will boot out congress if they pass this lunatic bill.

SBajwa
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5372
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 21:35
Location: Attari

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby SBajwa » 21 Dec 2011 03:29

Few points!!!


India is poor because its 800 million farmers are poor and 50 million middle men are rich.
India will remain poor as long as those middle men are controlling government.
All money invested in the is good as long as it is used to empower the people.

If left untouched 20 years from now the land holdings will divide to less than 1/4th an acre per family and people will start revolting.

skher
BRFite
Posts: 197
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 23:58
Location: Secured; no idea

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby skher » 22 Dec 2011 00:47

Upendra wrote:allowing FDI is suicidal, MNC retailers will buy from outside and easily import it into India thereby destroying local manufacturing.


Allowing FDI in itself is never suicidal and always beneficial, with the caveat the concessions taken at least,match or exceed the concessions given.

IMHO,only FDI in retail of import/engineering heavy goods/materials where India does not have a very high market share in world and seeks technology transfer et cetera should be conducted. For example, Retail of petrochemicals(which we import 80% of demand) should be allowed 100% through automatic route, similarly in drilling,telecom,space, nuclear,energy, construction and capital equipment etc. which also we don't R&D but do value addition through assembly, after sales, spares, etc.

The only rider should be that such equipment be manufactured/assembled locally(closest possible to the retail outlets) or at least their spares be outsourced to and managed by indian owned/promoted MSMEs.

The so called cold chain, warehousing and logistical benefits arising out of FDI in multi brand retail are imaginary because the sectors of transport, infrastructure, agricultural marketing,rural banking,microfinance, etc. need reforms & FDI first, with caveats, before the retail sector is opened up to allow its effects in full.

Also, cold chain and sanitation need political will and enforcement rather than Foreign Direct Investment.

Protect Indian agriculture,pharmaceuticals, school education and textiles for the time being as they are industries in which our nation is a world leader but is not ready to welcome foreign investment momentarily - their operating environment is far too polluted with politics, unlike say technology where all parties post 1990's agree to allow investment as a general rule.

FDI in retail is most welcome, provided that the benefits in support of it are cogent and timely.The chief benefits must be restricted to the retail of the goods/services we import as it is (lack of R&D capital/risk aversion) and that too in bulk.

JMT.

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21163
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby Prem » 22 Dec 2011 03:59

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/openi ... 111221.htm
Ron Somers, president of United States-India Business Council, has termed the Indian government's rollback of foreign direct investment in the multibrand retail sector as yet another addition to the disappointments American business and industry has had to endure.
Speaking at the American India [ Images ] Foundation's annual fundraising gala in Washington, DC, he said, "I just want to kind of start with (by) getting rid of the 800-pound gorilla in the room. On Thanksgiving [ Images ], if you were paying attention, the big news coming out of India was the opening of the multibrand retail sector. And, there we were — all of us — feverishly on our BlackBerrys trying to conceive a press release in the middle of Thanksgiving in order to herald the most extraordinary economic policy in perhaps the last 10 years in India." "Five days later, the decision was suspended. And, I just want to set the tone here by saying that if Bob Blake (Robert O Blake, Assistant Secretary of State for South and Central Asian Affairs) and I can share with you — we've seen much worse than this."Somers referred to the Indian Parliament's nuclear liability law, which has put the implementation of the US-India civilian nuclear deal in limbo, and incensed US business and industry that lobbied for the passage of the deal. He said, "The nuclear rules coming out of India that don't quite limit liability in the unlikely event of a nuclear accident" was followed by the disappointment in April of "not being selected for the Multi-Role Combat Aircraft procurement."Somers also spoke about the sanctions on India after the 1998 nuclear tests and the US - India Business Council's and Blake's efforts to help "lift the sanctions in 2000-2001, with the visit of (then) President Bill Clinton [ Images ] (to India), who really opened the entire rapprochement and the relationship that we now here enjoy

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5836
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby vishvak » 22 Dec 2011 14:02

Jhujar wrote:http://www.rediff.com/news/report/opening-of-indias-retail-sector-will-happen/20111221.htm
Somers also spoke about the sanctions on India after the 1998 nuclear tests and the US - India Business Council's and Blake's efforts to help "lift the sanctions in 2000-2001, with the visit of (then) President Bill Clinton [ Images ] (to India), who really opened the entire rapprochement and the relationship that we now here enjoy

How would the sanctions earlier, lifted in 2000-2001, stand in international courts/tribunals and how is international trade affected by unilateral sanctions from individual countries like USA?

rkirankr
BRFite
Posts: 816
Joined: 17 Apr 2009 11:05

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby rkirankr » 22 Dec 2011 16:54

I have heard a new CT. Take FWIW.

Well the theory goes that India is not such an easy ground for conversion. The EJs and their masters whoever finance them did some study. They found that the average Hindoo is very much tied emotionally to his religious institutions such as temples, maths, veda peetas etc etc. Though they do not directly control his life, he is pretty much influenced by them and respects many of the old venerated institutions. Many of these institutions and inspirational/influential people in these institutions are working to deepen Hindoo culture among the masses and also resisting actively against conversions.

Now where do these people get there money for their OPs?. Salaried class - no, big business - no (Anil Ambani giving a crore to some temple is peanuts). farmers- most of them lead hand to mouth existense. Then who ? Ah hah - it is the millions of kirana wallas or what you call mom and pop stores which contribute part of their weekly, monthly or yearly earnings to their respective religious institutions.
So the CT is drive them out of business, religious institutions cannot sustain and you have the field open for the EJ army to march in.

As said take for FWIW. Oh by the way I am not part of any right wing organisation.

James Blonde
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 23
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby James Blonde » 22 Dec 2011 19:00

FDI in retail is very good for the country because of two reasons

FCI godowns will truly go down the toilet in India Today I feel.

You might have seen in recent reports how food was being pilfered, lost to pests (mostly human kind, sorry human unkind; rats, roaches, bird kind) and wasted:

In normal countries when FCI rots FCI profits should go up.

India is different
FCI and FCI both incur losses in abundance in reality if one FCI under performs the other FCI should be reaping profits not raping the exchequer.

Vous ne comparé pas? of course you dont understand

Let me elaborate

When Food Corporation of India rots the grain in go downs (apt for GOI ventures) it should benefit Fertilizer corporation of India no?

Normally yes but in this case we are talking about GOI institutions instituted by people like Diggy Raja

Because 1FCI (Food Corporation of India) is making grain rot with bird droppings; roach droppings even human droppings into bio compost and is often as exotic fertilizer in western world and there fore 2FCI (Fertilizer Corporation of India) should be profitable by selling this.

I don’t know why this is not happing. One explanation I can offer is that the fertilize compost never moves out of go downs because the CAG never completes the audit;



RODENTS, MONKEYS and dogs eating away the foodgrains;
poor food storage conditions and rain water flowing from the sacks of wheat in the godowns of Food Corporation of India are a disgrace to the nation.
We have seen such pictures on different news channels
Many months have passed since a news channel first aired such reports but the situation has not improved. On the contrary, the Agriculture Minister Sharad Pawar and other officials are accusing media of repeatedly showing the same footage and exaggerating the issue.


http://www.merinews.com/article/rotting ... 7234.shtml

SBajwa
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5372
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 21:35
Location: Attari

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby SBajwa » 22 Dec 2011 21:34

It is not just warehouses but what about mills (sugar and cotton) when farmers are standing in front of them with their carts loaded with sugarcane and cotton and mill cannot buy them fast enough.

The loaded sugarcane sitting in the sun waiting for buyer, loses its moisture by the day., in 7 days it loses 25% of its weight. Thus farmers lose again.

The bad infrastructure hurts nobody but the poorest of the poor.

The infrastructure like Metros and 6 lane highways do not help poor farmers but Rich metro people.

The infrastructure of the last loop (telephony language) or the last mile is where India loses its most productivity.

Everytime a poor farmer employs a helping hand to harvest or to spray India is losing money, time and effort because all these job should be mechanized.

An average farmer in a developed country can easily take care of 1000 Acres (mechanized farming)
An average farmer in India can not take care of a 10 acre farm without help.

Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3282
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby Kakkaji » 02 Jan 2012 09:24


member_21708
BRFite
Posts: 284
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby member_21708 » 02 Jan 2012 11:24



Andhra Pradesh government is drawing up plans to open swanky supermarkets, venturing into multi-brand retail territory that multinational retailers such as Walmart and Tesco are desperate to enter but forbidden from doing so.

It is also seeking partnerships with the wholesale units of Germany's Metro AG and Walmart, a minister said

Eventually, the Congress government will spend some Rs 2,000 crore to set up a retail chain that covers all the main towns and cities in India's fourth-largest state.

Other states such as Tamil Nadu, Kerala and Maharashtra have opened retail stores to sell food products, but with little expertise in the area, these businesses ran into severe losses.

Maharashtra had to sell its ailing Sahakari Bhandar outlets in Mumbai to Reliance Retail.


backdoor entry to desperate MNC retailers, congress sold public for a few crores from these MNC's, pathetic bunch of criminals who are afraid of lokpal and talk big about fighting corruption

Dhiman
BRFite
Posts: 527
Joined: 29 Nov 2008 13:56

Re: FDI in Retail

Postby Dhiman » 02 Jan 2012 15:51

FDI in retail is complete waste. If infrastructure is bad then invest in infrastructure or supply chain, but not in opening mega stores. Are foreign retail outlets going to improve the conditions of Indian roads and make railways that transport farm produce run faster? Are they going to build power plants that will assure electricity for cold storage? Are they going to build reliable water supply? The answer is clearly NO. This is nothing but a reward to Walmart for its persistent lobbying and bribing efforts.


Return to “Technology & Economic Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests