Perspectives on the global economic changes

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panduranghari
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by panduranghari »

Austin wrote:Thanks for the explanation panduranghari.

Just thought that Reserve Currency Future should be country neutral so that whims and fancies or policies of any specific county does not affect the credibility of Reserve Currency .....IMF SDR is one thing but its really small percentage , how about Basket of currency from few countries

Here is an old article from Examiner
http://www.examiner.com/article/will-th ... e-currency
the G-20 group of wealthy nations authorized the issuance of $250 billion dollars worth of an alternative currency called "Special Drawing Rights". Special Drawing Rights (SDR), are a currency issued by the International Monetary Fund, an inernational organization which provides aid to countries which are struggling financially.
Russia also backs making the SDR the world's reserve currency, and that Russia wants the SDR to be pegged to a basket of yuans, rubles and gold (currently, the SDR is pegged to four currencies: the dollar, yen, euro and sterling).
Indeed, the head of the China's central bank wrote recently:

Though the super-sovereign reserve currency has long since been proposed, yet no substantive progress has been achieved to date. Back in the 1940s, Keynes had already proposed to introduce an international currency unit named "Bancor", based on the value of 30 representative commodities. Unfortunately, the proposal was not accepted. The collapse of the Bretton Woods system, which was based on the White approach, indicates that the Keynesian approach may have been more farsighted. The IMF also created the SDR in 1969, when the defects of the Bretton Woods system initially emerged, to mitigate the inherent risks sovereign reserve currencies caused. Yet, the role of the SDR has not been put into full play due to limitations on its allocation and the scope of its uses. However, it serves as the light in the tunnel for the reform of the international monetary system.

It's again who will bell the cat.

FOFOA writes this about SDR- the SDR is only a unit of account, by design. If they make it into something else, then it's no longer a true SDR. It's something else. Might as well call it a bancor or whatever. If you hold an SDR, you hold drawing rights to a basket of currencies, but the SDR itself is nothing but a unit of account used to calculate how much of any one of the individual currencies in the basket it is worth. If you ask for one of those currencies, they will likely be printed for you by that currency's issuer and his SDR count will increase.

So SDR with USD GBP JPY is no different from SDR with RRB RMB INR SAR BRP.
panduranghari
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by panduranghari »

Neshant seems the British ruling classes still think on similar lines. I hope the tossers suffer extreme poverty.
TSJones
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by TSJones »

Fiat currencies are toast
Nobody is going to, ineffect, guarantee the price of gold.

Now, who is seeing the world as it actually is?
vishvak
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by vishvak »

TSJones wrote:
Fiat currencies are toast
Nobody is going to, ineffect, guarantee the price of gold.

Now, who is seeing the world as it actually is?
There is LIBOR standards and other such and such but it has been mishandled for a long time.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by TSJones »

vishvak wrote:There is LIBOR standards and other such and such but it has been mishandled for a long time.
Precisely. The point of all of this, is that nobody is going to guarantee (put their nation's blood and resources) any source of value whether it is gold, oil, platinum, or a bond interest rate index.

So we have to make do with a fluctuating market place value on these storehouses of value and that includes currency. And right now China is loathe to do that with their currency for reasons I have already stated. So no reserve currency for China.

One can buy gold and hold it, but tell me if you bought gold at 1500, see it go to 1700, and now you need to cash some of it at 1300 for retirement expenses, how would you feel about that? THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by Austin »

In this episode of the Keiser Report, Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert, discuss the post-kaboom period of a de-Americanized world where risk is redistributed and financial systems are re-architected away from the daisy chains of credit without collateral. In the second half, Max interviews Leo Johnson, co-author of Turnaround Challenge: Business and the City of the Future about the three possible cities of the future: Petropolis, Cyburbia or Distributed City.

http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/episo ... eiser-353/
panduranghari
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by panduranghari »

TSJones wrote:
vishvak wrote:There is LIBOR standards and other such and such but it has been mishandled for a long time.
Precisely. The point of all of this, is that nobody is going to guarantee (put their nation's blood and resources) any source of value whether it is gold, oil, platinum, or a bond interest rate index.

So we have to make do with a fluctuating market place value on these storehouses of value and that includes currency. And right now China is loathe to do that with their currency for reasons I have already stated. So no reserve currency for China.

One can buy gold and hold it, but tell me if you bought gold at 1500, see it go to 1700, and now you need to cash some of it at 1300 for retirement expenses, how would you feel about that? THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES.
Man has always valued gold at least for the past 2000 years. Just because the west has not given it value for the past 40 years, does not make it otherwise.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by TSJones »

^^^People yearn for something other than the market place to protect their valuables. Why? Because of the damn dirty speculators and political zealots.

There is only one answer and people, really, really, don't want to hear it: diversification coupled with dollar(rupees, renminbi, whutever) cost averaging over the years.

It's like preaching to desert sand. :(
brihaspati
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by brihaspati »

The idea of a global reserve currency misses one of the key aspects of currency and money. That it must be supported by a coercive state authority that can impose - within certain feasibility constraints - specific aspects of creation of value and its measurement.

The reason no reserve currency has yet convincingly appeared is because, there is no one-global-government and state. In fact many of the potential global-single-dominannce-wishers themselves might have state/political/ideological/biz components that would not want such a global enforcement agency.

Just as an economy without some black-market stuff is highly uncomfortable for business in general. Even global leaders would want to keep some sub-enforcement systems where they can park their excess if needed and hedge.

It is risky to both rule-in and rule-out the future value of gold. So far all that I see in my quantitative studies is that gold seems to be part of a portfolio of items that mutually compensate each other in value, and most national economies seem to be working on a stable almost ellipsoidal orbit in spite of the apparent crises.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by SwamyG »

Modernity has failed to stop deviance
Many Indians think that modernity means fashionable clothes and western manners, urban habits and the English language. But it means far more. It is the intrusive ideology of the West. It even calls upon the Rest to give up its traditions as a precondition for economic growth.

The UN Department of Social and Economic Affairs told the underdeveloped countries in 1951 that “as the price for rapid economic development” “ancient philosophies have to be scrapped”; “old social institutions have to disintegrate”; “bonds of caste, creed and race have to burst” and “those unwilling for this price” should “remain underdeveloped”.

This theory, better known as ‘Western anthropological modernity’, mandated the Rest to become a carbon copy of the West. But things have drastically changed after 2008 and the West has now conceded that its model may not be as good for the Rest. But the psychological damage done to the Rest over hundred years cannot be easily undone. Modernity, which was marketed as a must for growth, has by now become a habit and fashion.

The modern West is constructed on the principle of methodological (read unbridled) individualism propounded by Max Weber who, along with Karl Marx, exerted the greatest influence on Indian academia. They reject the view that the individual is an integral part of the traditional family and society.
Modernity asserts individuals’ rights over their duties to family and society. The superstructure of the modern economic theory – the rational man and efficient market – rests on this foundation. Karl Popper, a celebrated theoretician of this logic, found that there was nothing such as society. And Margaret Thatcher endorsed him. QED:modernity celebrates the individual, trivialises family and delegitimises society.
Post Script: The US, at the dead end, now seems to be reviving the study of anthropology of law which traces traditional rules preventing deviance as an alternative to modern law which punishes deviance.
panduranghari
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by panduranghari »

^^ only if people had listened to what Carl Menger had to say instead of Karl Marx.
Menger used his “subjective theory of value” to arrive at one of the most powerful insights in economics: both sides gain from exchange. Unlike William Jevons, Menger did not believe that goods provide “utils,” or units of utility. Rather, he wrote, goods are valuable because they serve various uses whose importance differs. Menger also came up with an explanation of how money develops that is still accepted today.[3]
If people barter, he pointed out, then they can rarely get what they want in one or two transactions. If they have lamps and want chairs, for example, they will not necessarily be able to trade lamps for chairs but may instead have to make a few intermediate trades. This is a hassle. But people notice that the hassle is much less when they trade what they have for some good that is widely accepted, and then use this good to buy what they want. The good that is widely accepted eventually becomes money.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Menger
TSJones
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by TSJones »

Dollars dominence doomed?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10 ... ollar?lite
Bergsten agrees there would be short-term pain but said that in the long run, a less important dollar would be good for the country.

“I think the international role of the dollar is bad for the U.S. It makes it too easy to finance our deficits. We are on a very long leash,” he said.

“Money comes in here and that relaxes or even avoids the real market pressure on us to force us to get our house in order,” he added. “We like competition among products, why not among currency?”

Despite the billions that the U.S. has saved in interest, transaction costs and other perks of dollar dominance, Pardee said the evolution of several reserve currencies would not necessarily be disastrous.

After all, Britain, the world's economic capital since World War II, survived having the pound sterling replaced by the dollar as the world's leading currency.

“The fact that sterling is no longer the international reserve currency has not hampered the sale of oil from the North Sea or Scotch Whiskey or Beatles records,” he said.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by SwamyG »

It is prime opportunity for the East to offer economists and intellectuals to the World. The last 700 yrs of European economic model has both pluses and minuses. Time to inject some Eastern/Indian ideas.
RoyG
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by RoyG »

SwamyG wrote:It is prime opportunity for the East to offer economists and intellectuals to the World. The last 700 yrs of European economic model has both pluses and minuses. Time to inject some Eastern/Indian ideas.
You're absolutely right Swamygji. M R Venkatesh and S Gurumurthy often give presentation on western economic theory and how it is rooted in christian anthropology. However, I don't really hear much on indian economic theory besides the role of women and the family structure. What is the role of the state? What do the arthashasthra and other texts offer?
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by Neshant »

SwamyG wrote:It is prime opportunity for the East to offer economists.
The migration of theory is happening in the opposite direction.

The silly notion of some "wise man" (central banker) sitting up top fiddling around with trillions of dollars and directing the economy like he's some all-knowing oracle is being pushed into India and other places. This false economic theory which only promotes corruption and cronyism is gaining momentum in India with guys dressed in suits talking fancy theories and hitting the Print button to steal the savings & wages of the working class.

More and more of the worthless scam industry called banking is being setup in the east, gold (the traditional money based on ancient wisdom) being "outlawed" and paper money being shoved down the throats of people.

Until these fools are removed from positions of power and the market allowed to select its own monetary system, the banking "industry" will only continue to grow like a parasite on a host.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by TSJones »

^^^^^^You can buy and hold gold now but that is not good enough for you. You want a "gold standard" and that is an entirely different beast than just owning "gold". No such agency is going to provide it. Hope China tries. :)
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by Neshant »

TSJones wrote:^^^^^^You can buy and hold gold now but that is not good enough for you.
In India, there is now a 10% tax on purchase of gold that filters through to the consumer. Why the need to prevent people from protecting their earnings & savings from the machinations of fools at the top aka central bankers who think they know what's best for everyone?

As with every country, there is an attempt by banking goons in fancy suits to force people to use paper money which they have control over. Paper promises from con artists on the stock exchange, taxation in paper money and other such thievery is devised not the help the people but to relieve the people of their earnings.

Its a very simple logic. Banking is a useless industry that produces nothing of value to society. It can only subsist off the wealth that productive society generates. And the primary means by which it steals this wealth is paper schemes - which is why bankers are always eager to administer/manage the economy, the currency, the stock markets, the insurance, the bailouts. etc..

As with every country in the west, the govt/central banking becomes a tool for thieving from productive society. A transfer of wealth & savings to the useless banking "industry" through enforcement of the paper racket upon society.

So to turn the question on you - you can hold worthless paper from bankers if you want, why force it upon the rest of society through the machinery of government ?
Neshant
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by Neshant »

The guy is #1 is bullsh&tting.

He was hollering for trillions in bailouts during 2008. He was writing to Congress to prevent any audit of the Federal Reserve in 2009 to keep secret what how this banking cartel is offloading its massive losses onto society's back. He's the prime reason for the housing implosion and even claimed right before the crash there was no credit bubble. Now he lieing that he foresaw the housing bubble.

The guy should be selling shoes instead of making $300K (the fee he charges) for being a guest speaker on economics.

It puts to rest the whole absurd notion of some "wise man" at the top shepherding the economy by fiddling around with trillions of dollars, printing money and rigging markets for the good of society. For the good of the private banks behind the Federal Reserve maybe, but definitely not the good of productive society.

By the time this implosion is over, his place in history will be secure - secured by the fact that he's destroyed more global wealth than any single individual in history.

Long live Alan Greenspan!
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by TSJones »

Neshant wrote:
TSJones wrote:^^^^^^You can buy and hold gold now but that is not good enough for you.
In India, there is now a 10% tax on purchase of gold that filters through to the consumer. Why the need to prevent people from protecting their earnings & savings from the machinations of fools at the top aka central bankers who think they know what's best for everyone?

As with every country, there is an attempt by banking goons in fancy suits to force people to use paper money which they have control over. Paper promises from con artists on the stock exchange, taxation in paper money and other such thievery is devised not the help the people but to relieve the people of their earnings.

Its a very simple logic. Banking is a useless industry that produces nothing of value to society. It can only subsist off the wealth that productive society generates. And the primary means by which it steals this wealth is paper schemes - which is why bankers are always eager to administer/manage the economy, the currency, the stock markets, the insurance, the bailouts. etc..

As with every country in the west, the govt/central banking becomes a tool for thieving from productive society. A transfer of wealth & savings to the useless banking "industry" through enforcement of the paper racket upon society.

So to turn the question on you - you can hold worthless paper from bankers if you want, why force it upon the rest of society through the machinery of government ?
You will have to as the US Congress. It's their law that all US residents must accept federal reserve currency as legal payment of debt.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by TSJones »

It puts to rest the whole absurd notion of some "wise man" at the top shepherding the economy by fiddling around with trillions of dollars, printing money and rigging markets for the good of society. For the good of the private banks behind the Federal Reserve maybe, but definitely not the good of productive society.
You've nevr been through afull scale banking panic have you? It's one of the reasons the federal reserve was created. Also, when the US was on the gold standard before the federal reserve was created, there was no gold coinage or money in vast sections of the US. Most of the country was on the barter system until money was available. I'll bet the common people in India had the same problem under the Britsh system before independence.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by chanakyaa »

Speaking of global changes (some humor), What Each Country Excels In (from ZeroHedge)

(Full image) http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/ ... %20J_0.jpg

Image
Christopher Sidor
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by Christopher Sidor »

Neshant wrote:
TSJones wrote:^^^^^^You can buy and hold gold now but that is not good enough for you.
In India, there is now a 10% tax on purchase of gold that filters through to the consumer. Why the need to prevent people from protecting their earnings & savings from the machinations of fools at the top aka central bankers who think they know what's best for everyone?

As with every country, there is an attempt by banking goons in fancy suits to force people to use paper money which they have control over. Paper promises from con artists on the stock exchange, taxation in paper money and other such thievery is devised not the help the people but to relieve the people of their earnings.
It is true that debasement of currency has caused Indians to hoard gold and real estate. Two avenues which assure them that the debauchery of GoI will not impact their hard earned money. After all Real Estate in India has two peculiar properties. One it appreciates and the second it gives return in the form of Rent. It is a different matter that the structure does not appreciate but the land price associated with Real Estate does. But there is another way to look at it. If GoI and RBI are focussed too narrowly on maintaining the strength of the economy it removes all the flexibility to react in times of crisis. This is nothing more than wearing the straight jacket of Gold Standard. The problem with this approach is that it protects the currency but at horrendous cost to the economy and common man. Think about 25% unemployment. We see it even today in the case of Euro. Just so as to preserve the strength of Euro, many of the PIIGS countries are struggling with more than 25% unemployment, with youth unemployment hitting in excess of 50%.
The sweet spot is somewhere in the middle. Not to go overboard like the case of ECB and BoJ or worse Zimbabawe or pre WWII Austria and Wiemar Germany

Its a very simple logic. Banking is a useless industry that produces nothing of value to society. It can only subsist off the wealth that productive society generates. And the primary means by which it steals this wealth is paper schemes - which is why bankers are always eager to administer/manage the economy, the currency, the stock markets, the insurance, the bailouts. etc..

As with every country in the west, the govt/central banking becomes a tool for thieving from productive society. A transfer of wealth & savings to the useless banking "industry" through enforcement of the paper racket upon society.
Banking and its allied financial entities like Mutual Funds, Insurance, Brokers perform a very important role in the economy. They take surplus cash from one place or group or entity and put it to productive use somewhere else. For example if every Indian had Rs 100 to spare then SBI can take these Rs 100 billion (1 billion X Rs 100) and give it out to L&T or IOCL or ISRO or Cipla to put it to productive use. This is how we have growth. But if we did not have SBI then we could not do this. We have multiple banks so that there is competition between them to have the most optimum allocation of this money.
Such task is done even by mutual funds and Insurance companies. For example MFs become the vehicle of choice for Companies and organizations to park their short term surplus. This money can then be lend out to people for short term loans. Or in case of Insurance to lend the same amount of money for extremely long term loans.
The problem is that the Banking industry has become oversized in relation to other part of the economy. This means instead of serving the real economy reverse happens. This is compounded by the market fundamentalism practiced by many North Atlantic countries, like the efficient market hypothesis or the belief of self regulation.
So Banking industry itself is not the problem it is the use that it is put to that is the problem.
So to turn the question on you - you can hold worthless paper from bankers if you want, why force it upon the rest of society through the machinery of government ?
Nobody is forcing the paper money on to the society. IF society feels it can ditch a particular currency and go for another form of currency like Bitcon or switch to another countries currency or worse switch to gold standard.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by panduranghari »

TSJones wrote:You can buy and hold gold now but that is not good enough for you. :)
At a high enough price there is more than enough gold to go around.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Isn't the Rupee 'legal tender'. Meaning people are required by the government to use it for compensation. So you can buy a bar of soap, pay in rupees, get receipt and the merchant cannot accuse you of theft. If say you pay with bitcoins, even with a receipt, the merchant can accuse you of theft and win the case against you.

Even barter has this weakness in my experience. Rancor is common over the 'quality' of the payment. Society can not willy-nilly decide the currency on anything other than one off micro-scale.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by Austin »

Yuan going global: China, Singapore agree on direct currency trade
China and Singapore have agreed to trade their currencies directly, making the Southeast Asian city - state another offshore hub for Chinese yuan.

Singapore will become one of several locations where Chinese institutional investors will be able to buy foreign securities with yuan. The limit for currency trades by financial institutions in Singapore that invest in China’s domestic securities was stipulated at 50 billion yuan ($8.2 billion), according to the Renminbi Qualified Domestic Institutional Investor program.

“Financial ties between the two countries have deepened considerably and Singapore is well placed to promote greater use of the RMB in international trade and investment in the years to come,” MAS Managing Director Ravi Menon said in the statement. RMB stands for renminbi, which is the official name of the Chinese currency.

Tuesday's move follows last week decision by the UK to ease rules for Chinese banks willing to set up in London, which was coupled with Beijing's decision to open up its markets to British-based investors.

In another move to promote the yuan globally the country agreed on a currency swap with the EU earlier in the month. The swap facility that could total as much as 350 billion yuan and €45 billion and will last for three years marked one of the largest currency deals between China and a non-Asian trading partner.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by member_27873 »

In US one can refuse legal tender.

no federal law requires that a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services not yet provided. For example, a bus line may not allow payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. Some movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations as a matter of policy may refuse to accept large bills, such as above $20, and as long as there is a notice posted and a sale for goods or services has not already been completed, these businesses have not violated the legal tender law.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by Austin »

Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert, discuss the bandits, banksters and brokers who will have taken all that we have got. No dollar, euro, yen or drachma will be left behind. And inflation, deflation and confiscation will take every last nickel and dime. They also discuss Americans turning their bodies into cash machines as they start selling off various organs to make ends meet. In the second half, Max interviews economist and professor, Constantin Gurdgiev, about Bail-Ins, Bail-outs and Troikas. They also discuss ‘second-rate’ Britain and a de-Americanizing rest of the world.

http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/episo ... eiser-492/
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by TSJones »

yadagiri wrote:In US one can refuse legal tender.

no federal law requires that a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services not yet provided. For example, a bus line may not allow payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. Some movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations as a matter of policy may refuse to accept large bills, such as above $20, and as long as there is a notice posted and a sale for goods or services has not already been completed, these businesses have not violated the legal tender law.
Try paying the IRS in pennies sometime. Yes, it's alread been tried. :D
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by Neshant »

TSJones wrote: You've nevr been through afull scale banking panic have you?
You mean like the one caused by the Federal Reserve in 2008 ?

The only reason the Federal Reserve was created (by private banks) was to OFFLOAD their gambling losses following a market crash onto the rest of productive society - under the banner of "stabilizing" the economy or "stimulating" the economy. That is the ONLY reason the Federal Reserve was created.

Elaborate stories full of nonsensical economic theories, jargons and fancy talk has been constructed over the decades to support the existence of this private banking cartel as being in the interest of society. But all of it has been debunked.

Here is the best explanation of what the Federal Reserve really is. Once you've understood what it is, you'll quickly realise what a big scam it is :

Neshant
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by Neshant »

yadagiri wrote:In US one can refuse legal tender.
I don't think so.

If I recall correctly, the law states that "legal tender" aka paper money must be accepted as full & final payments of all debts.

That law is designed to keep private bankers in control. They can gamble in the markets and relieve their losses through the printing press. (i.e. steal wealth from those who have earned it to pay losses off)

It serves to enforce the (worthless) paper money system upon productive society which private bankers control.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by Neshant »

Christopher Sidor wrote:They take surplus cash from one place or group or entity and put it to productive use somewhere else.
I repeat - The idea that some "wise man" sitting up top knows what is a productive investment and what is total and utter nonsense. The only reason this nonsense is promoted as a viable theory is because of those who sit up top who wish to rob productive society of their wealth through monopoly over the monetary system. If you do not understand this, it will be very hard for you to understand anything beyond this.
For example if every Indian had Rs 100 to spare then SBI can take these Rs 100 billion (1 billion X Rs 100) and give it out to L&T or IOCL or ISRO or Cipla to put it to productive use.
How do you know that is productive use of capital? It might be destructive use if the company goes bankrupt Enron style. The only allocator of capital should be the people who EARN it, not some guy sitting up top thinking he knows what's a good investment from a bad one.

As an example of wealth destruction, many bankers who bet with leverage on mortgage backed securities pre 2008 lost heavily - and the only "solution" they can come up with is to offload trillions of their losses onto the backs of productive society. In hind sight, are they creating wealth or destroying it? I'm sure they're getting rich of it personally through fees and big salaries. But who's eating the loss.

The reality is bankers don't know any more than the average person if an investment is good or bad. But they sure pretend that they do and they sure get rich collecting fees and leaving the rest of society with the bill.

While banking might have started out with a utility role, that role has long since vanished. Banking these days is all about stealing wealth from the producers of society through control over and debasement (aka counterfeiting) of the currency. That is its primary source of profit. Lately its been about committing financial fraud and stuffing govt with ex-employees to prevent prosecution for that fraud.

Inflation is used to coerce people into handing their money over to bankers to invest to keep up with the theft of their capital.

Now a simple question : If printing money is good for the economy, why don't we all do it? Why should all not fire up our laser printers and start printing & spending $1000s of dollars. Why is this "privilege" to counterfeit money and steal wealth from others in the name of monetary policy, or stimulating the economy or bailouts preserved only for private bankers aka cronies of the central bank?
This is how we have growth.


That's not how we have growth. That's how we have cronyism and corruption.
Nobody is forcing the paper money on to the society.
Wrong, payment of taxes are enforced in paper money.
Here's a simple question to test if a person understands the paper money racket :

Why was the IRS created at the same time as the Federal Reserve? (hint : it is not a coincidence)
panduranghari
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by panduranghari »

^^ Neshant
many +1's

The problem is this information is all in public domain. Call it cognitive dissonance or willful ignorance. But it defies belief that people will listen to financial pundits.
Austin
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by Austin »

Good Post Neshant.

Without BRICS’ growth, global economy ‘would remain semi-depressed’ – Medvedev
“If the world economy has a future, it will be successful only in case emerging economies take part in it,” Medvedev said in an online Q&A session with China’s Xinhua news agency.

“I think our economies, the economies of BRICS countries, for example, and other developing markets are the main economic growth drivers,” Medvedev said.

He added that most of the developed world was suffering, including Europe, Russia’s biggest trade partner, as well as the world’s biggest economy, the US.

“Recently they [the US] had a crisis in relations between the executive and the parliament, and that had a negative impact on the interests of the economy as a whole,” Medvedev said, referring to the 16-day government shutdown and standoff with Congress that drove the US almost to the brink of an unprecedented default.

The International Monetary Fund has projected that global economic growth will slow to between 2 percent and 3 percent this year.

“If we are not able to contribute from the side of emerging markets, our global economy will remain in semi-depressed condition,” Medvedev said.

“But we are not going to sleep, we are going to cooperate with all of the countries which are represented through various formats, including the G20, BRICS and a number of other forums where we communicate and discuss the perspectives of the world economy,” Medvedev said.
TSJones
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by TSJones »

Credit is an economy multiplier. Just because poorly regulated speculators and political zealots abuse it does not mean that credit is bad. In fact, it can be a wonderful thing that technology springs forth from. Farmers use it to leverage their crops so that they don't starve all winter. Corporations use it to build factories and equipment. Governments use it to smooth revenue flows during tax seasonal variations. I've used it to send my wife and children to college and to buy homes and cars.

Credit causes money to have velocity factor of 7 or greater! That means for every dollar deposited in the bank 7 people or business use while it is credited to that person's checking or savings account.

Paper money is the force from which giant economies grow. And someone has to be in charge of it. But they have rules that they must follow. I don't know about India central bank and how it operates, but the US congress *mandates* the mission for the US federal reserve to include two things.

1. Protect the integrity of the US banking system so that there are no general US population banking panics. In spite of what you might think, in 2008 there were no run on the banks from the general population. We all kept our money in the banks and the fed guaranteed it. The shareholders got smacked but not the depositors. Same for the insurance companies like AIG. In that regard, The Fed Reserve did its job.

2. Promote the full employment of the population of the US. That's what the quantative easing is all about.

Again, this mission is a requirement from the US Congress and the Chairman of the Fed HAS TO ANSWER TO IT.

If the US economy was on a gold standard there is no way it could have grown like it has today. Vast areas of the US would have been without money and reduced to bartering for what they need.
TSJones
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by TSJones »

IS Bitcoin the future?

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exch ... 37407.html

If you read the above article click on the link at the bottom called "trading sardines". Very appropriate. :)
panduranghari
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by panduranghari »

TSJones wrote:Credit is an economy multiplier. Just because poorly regulated speculators and political zealots abuse it does not mean that credit is bad. In fact, it can be a wonderful thing that technology springs forth from. Farmers use it to leverage their crops so that they don't starve all winter. Corporations use it to build factories and equipment. Governments use it to smooth revenue flows during tax seasonal variations. I've used it to send my wife and children to college and to buy homes and cars.

Credit causes money to have velocity factor of 7 or greater! That means for every dollar deposited in the bank 7 people or business use while it is credited to that person's checking or savings account.

Paper money is the force from which giant economies grow. And someone has to be in charge of it. But they have rules that they must follow. I don't know about India central bank and how it operates, but the US congress *mandates* the mission for the US federal reserve to include two things.

1. Protect the integrity of the US banking system so that there are no general US population banking panics. In spite of what you might think, in 2008 there were no run on the banks from the general population. We all kept our money in the banks and the fed guaranteed it. The shareholders got smacked but not the depositors. Same for the insurance companies like AIG. In that regard, The Fed Reserve did its job.

2. Promote the full employment of the population of the US. That's what the quantative easing is all about.

Again, this mission is a requirement from the US Congress and the Chairman of the Fed HAS TO ANSWER TO IT.

If the US economy was on a gold standard there is no way it could have grown like it has today. Vast areas of the US would have been without money and reduced to bartering for what they need.
My friend FOFOA explains it well here.

Image


Everyone playing up in the top zone always has one eye on that single dollar bill. The perceived value of that single one dollar bill is imputed into every single contract in that upper pyramid. This is why everyone has their eye on it. Everyone knows it is not even worth the paper it is printed on, but they also know that as long as everyone else values it, it will hold its value which is the only thing holding up that entire top structure. This is called a network good that emerges from the network effect. Something has value only because a lot of people think it has value.

If you were to diminish the value of that single dollar by, say, 90%, then the whole top structure devalues 90% compared to the bottom pyramid instantly. No flow of funds is required. The reduced value is simply imputed to every quantum point in the pyramid. And no one would ride that devaluation out voluntarily when they could simply consolidate beforehand. So everyone is looking at that dollar thinking, believing, that they are quick enough to outrun everyone else at the first sign of trouble.

Now, in order to understand how this relates to Freegold, we need to mentally picture something resembling this upper pyramid thousands of years ago when the money concept first emerged. Money was, is, and always has been that mental concept whereby we trade real goods in their relative value implicated by conceptual units of a network good. If you owed me a cow and the going price for a cow was three ounces of gold, I'd probably just say you owed me three ounces. But that doesn't mean you'd ever pay me three ounces of gold. You might just pay me back my cow. Or perhaps you'd pay me in milk over time. If I gave you credit to buy some of my chickens you might pay me back with eggs over time. But on the books it would be recorded in gold, even though neither of us ever had any actual gold.

Can you see it? This is the concept of money. This is what money actually is. And under that upper pyramid of 2,000 years ago you'd actually see a picture of a gram of gold sitting at the bottom.

Image


Yes, it was still a network good just like the dollar is today, but people wouldn't have to keep such a close eye on it for a couple different reasons. First of all, the upper pyramid was not so big that it actually threatened to crush its foundation. And second, there was no one aside from a few gold miners that was able to threaten the foundation by multiplying it. (Note that the monetary base at the bottom of our modern pyramid has been multiplied 325%, that's 3.25x, in the last three years. The gold base usually multiplies only about 6% over that same timeframe.)

So now that we understand the different between a fragile foundation supporting a monstrosity versus a solid foundation supporting a much smaller, much more constrained credit structure, how would Freegold make both better?

Well, I would argue that life in the physical plane is better under a healthy and vibrant (relatively large) credit system (upper pyramid). And don't let the word credit fool you into thinking I'm talking about yucky debt and evil usury. If Bill Gates showed up at my house and wanted my grand piano, he wouldn't have to carry a bag of cash with him. I'd accept his signature (maybe even just a hand shake) along with a nice agreed price. Think of Oprah Winfrey paying $52 million in 2001 for that Montecito house that was only worth half that at the time, but she really wanted it after filming there, and it wasn't for sale. At first the owner told her "sorry, not for sale." I imagine she then said "fifty million" and they said "fifty-two and it's yours." Now that's some credit (credibility)!

In both cases the deals were done with credit. A healthy credit (money concept) system lubricates a vibrant economy. But that doesn't mean that Bill Gates went into (bad) debt over my piano. Sure, you can have debt and even interest that is good and healthy for the economy. There is nothing intrinsically bad about borrowing capital for productive purposes. Just like the guy that borrowed a cow and paid with milk, or paid for the chickens with eggs. Same principle. We simply structure the agreement around conceptual units (credits) of the network good.

So how can we have a network good that is easy enough that it doesn't stifle the credit structure below its healthy potential, yet hard enough that it doesn't grow into an unhealthy monstrosity capable of bringing the whole thing down? This is exactly what Freegold does. It opens a free-flowing two-way trading valve between money and physical gold. And the flow through this open valve between the pyramids becomes the public indicium of the health of the upper credit system. Without such a valve, you either have strangling constraint or no indicia (indicator) of unhealthy growth.

Without such a pairing as fiat + Freegold at the center of the hourglass, you will lurch back and forth between depressions and hyperinflations, century after century, with a few really nasty episodes like the French Revolution thrown in. Imagine coming up with this Thought out of thin air. Luckily we had the Gold Trail to lead us here. But this is how a grand induction works. Musta been quite the Aha moment for those guys when they finally worked it out!
TSJones
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by TSJones »

There is a misconception of the gold standard on this forum.

With a gold standard, the government will only print enough money to match the amount of gold it has to set the market price. You want more currency? Tough titty. There is only enough currency to match the market price. Either electronic or paper.

Can you see the problem? You have a letter of credit from the bank but there may not be enough currency to pay for the things you need. Thus bartering arises. What could arise is a secondary market on letters of credit from banks. Thus, a form of paper money not actually backed by gold. What happened in the US before the federal reserve was that bartering arose and there were banking panics from failure of bank's letters of credit that was not backed by a central bank.

And remember, no central bank can issue more money than it has in gold. Electronic or paper. Go ahead, try and stop the panic now.

So what happened was the US went on a semi gold standard where a central bank was created and it lent dollars based on the fact that somehow some way, if a depositor asked for gold (or silver) it could get it (without the gold or silver) actually being there. In the banking panic in 1933 (they called it a bank holliday when all the banks were closed), the government devalued the dollar to $35 per ounce and made it illegal for US residents to own gold(gold reserve act). This worked until 1971, when the US printed so many dollars that countries like Switzerland and France started demanding real gold for their dollars not letters of credit. That was when the US finally stopped converting dollars as gold standard and let US residents buy and sell gold at the market place.

If a country wants to guarantee the price of gold with their currency then it must restrict both electronic and paper money to meet the price of gold at the global market place.
Neshant
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic changes

Post by Neshant »

TSJones wrote:There is a misconception of the gold standard on this forum.

With a gold standard, the government will only print enough money to match the amount of gold it has to set the market price.
I don't know who your message is addressed to but I've never said a gold standard or any standard for that matter should be enforced on society. Forcing a person to use paper or gold or silver or anything else ends up being a monopolistic tyranny. So I'm not on board with those here calling for a gold standard.

What I do advocate is letting the people who EARNED the wealth decide what they want to hold & use as money. Just as you pick your own clothes, your own shoes, your own cell phone, your own wife... etc, so too you should pick the type of money you wish to use. Likewise you exchange that money for goods with those who willingly (i.e. without force of govt) accept it as payment of debt at a value they deem appropriate.

Although nobody can predict for sure how a free market monetary system would evolve, my guess is that a number of competing privately issued currencies would arise alongside gold as Hayek theorized. We live in an electronic age, so inter-convertibility between privately issued currencies would be instantaneous.

One immediate difference you would see compared to the present monopolistic system is that the private issuers of money would work hard to ENHANCE the value of their currency rather than dilute it. They would want more people to save and use their currency rather than their competitor.

Under such a system, you bare full responsibility for the decisions you make. There would be no govt involvement, no FDIC, no bailouts, no gangsters & banksters, no gambling with leverage. In other words, no passing on the bill of your bad decisions to some other sucker.

The only fair system is one which the market selects voluntarily. Any system involving the use of govt (which is to say force) to compel a person to use a currency ends up being a scam.
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