Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.


Indian IT Industry

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 77
Joined: 17 Aug 2016 21:26

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby arvin » 15 Jul 2017 15:26

Singha wrote:infy ceo came in a driverless golf cart today built in their mysore office. anyone know what tech is used ?

Good to see IT companies atleast atttempting to catch up with efforts put in by Apple, google and Tesla. The top 5 giants have hugh warchest and they should use it develop IP like this.
Also a nice way to convey message to employees that we have automated this. We can automate many things.

BRF Oldie
Posts: 5764
Joined: 03 Dec 2005 02:40
Location: Where DST doesn't bother me

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Vikas » 17 Jul 2017 14:54

Singha wrote:things that Govt could mandate:
- minimum 30 days severance pkg or upto the notice period whichever is longer.
- you can ask ppl to leave the next day but pay them for 30 days
- health insurance cover must be there for 3 months and emp has option of paying something for 3 more months. kind of a desi cobra. often aeging parents are tied to this.
- employer must give a relieving letter without coercive tactics do this, do that.
- maximum notice period 45 days.
- illegal to keep degree certificates and passports in custody

In my KB, they pay 3 months Basic pay if they ask you to leave very next day and thats pretty much it. But if you want to leave very next day, You will have to pay 3 months full salary.

Posts: 883
Joined: 01 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Bangalore

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby symontk » 17 Jul 2017 15:46

Singha wrote:A section of cos in massa send a security guy to escort out a laid off staffer.cube is packed by admin and sent later.

But that is over there. Does not look good asking person to put in papers or else termination . Implied dhamki is termination letter will set a nasty tone to spoil the entry into next job

In US folks have guns, building security over there is practically nil. In the famous chip company, there was fear that some of the laid off colleagues will come back and shoot at them later

BRF Oldie
Posts: 7887
Joined: 07 May 2005 02:30

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Gus » 17 Jul 2017 17:55

Singha wrote:- employer must give a relieving letter without coercive tactics do this, do that.

definitely need some sort of independent 'employment verification' thing that one can use to verify employment without having to beg HR.

I had to make couple dozen calls and emails over a few weeks to get a letter of previous employment (needed for mortgage application, in a format they recognize) and it got ugly with me having to say stuff like "I did not come this far down this process of closing a house and to get into issues like this and losing it..I will make your life miserable by calling every day and copying emails to everybody". The dude kept telling me that I can use the offer letter, and the relieving letter - and together they make up for verification of employment :x

The fun part? I was a transfer and we were still the same company :evil:

Posts: 1189
Joined: 07 Jan 2006 00:37
Location: J4

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Zynda » 21 Jul 2017 10:07

Opinion | 'Expect 100,000 to 200,000 Jobs to be Lost Every Year For The Next Three Years'

Last weekend, I was in Pune just after the suicide of a techie who was feeling depressed as he saw a very bleak job landscape for IT professionals. During my visit, I met several people in Pune and the common talk was about the IT jobs scarcity / layoffs.

The previous week, I was in Chennai where I met a senior manager heading marketing for a software services company. Her CTC was Rs 35 lakh. She had come for a job change and when I asked her why she wants to leave her present employer, a top 10 software services company, her response was shocking.

She said in the last six months, in her department alone, she was asked to send off 6 people – 25% of her total staff. She is having sleepless nights because she does not know when the Axe will fall on her. According to her, the company has identified, a supporting service like Marketing as expendable. She is a single mother and she does not know where to go if she loses her job. The point is she is still employed, but the Axe looming over her Head is something which is very difficult to describe.

As a Headhunter, I keep meeting people across industries looking for jobs. Most of them are in the middle management level and above. The people who meet me / call me on phone are in general those who are in dire need of jobs.

These days, I find that the number of calls / people who come and meet me has increased 5 fold. The reason either they have lost jobs or the sword is hanging.

Four weeks ago, I met an engineer from IIT in a 5 star hotel in Mumbai with the added qualification of a MBA from IIMA. He was 33 years old. To his credit, he was not asked to leave. He was an entrepreneur who ran out of funds. In the last eight months, he has been living on his wife’s savings. She is pregnant and now on leave.

I could see the desperation on his face. He was willing to take up a job anywhere in India. Regarding salary, I told him that he should not negotiate and try to get a CTC matching his peers. Reason he is unemployed. The advice I gave him was, first get a job, don’t worry about location or CTC. No potential employer will underpay you. Even if they pay you less in the beginning, knowing your strength, they will increase your salary so that they don’t lose you.

The other day a Fintech COO came to my office in Bangalore. He is 46 years, engineer, MBA from a reputed organisation. He has worked in some of the top FMCG companies in India – MNC and Indian. 2 years back, the start up bug caught him. He joined a Fintech company as a COO. Unfortunately, the company ran out of funds and he had to leave.

The anecdotal incidents I have described above is something which I am witnessing for the first time in my 30 years in Executive Search in India.

For the first time, across sectors – IT / BPO / Telecom/ Retail / BFSI / Autos etc etc , companies are laying off people in large numbers.

In the IT industry alone, we expect about 100,000 to 200,000 jobs to disappear every year for the next 3 years. Beyond 3 years it is difficult to predict what will be the extent of job losses.

Recently, Tata Motors, gave a VRS for middle managers. CTS did the same some time back. Ashok Leblanc did this exercise 2 years back.

I am aware of a top steel company having identified 7000 people excess on their rolls.

Some of the top industrial Groups in India have decided to deploy / redeploy people within, rather than go for outside recruitment. Obviously, specialised positions are exempt.

As a person whose future depends upon Executive Recruitment, I keep close watch on the happenings globally.

Two years back, the World Bank, predicted that in India 60% of the jobs as we know will disappear. In China, according to the same study, it will be 70%. In the western countries, the jobs which will disappear will be around 50%.

We will be soon in the area of driver less cars, robots cooking at McDonalds/Dominos.

While we can say that India is different, let us not forget that the banking industry, before our eyes, we have seen ATM’s have replaced cash tellers in banks. Further, PAYTMs are fast replacing ATMs.

We are entering an era of jobless growth globally. Robots will increasingly play more and more important roles in our life.

Yesterday I was watching Elon Musk speaking about need to control Robots. According to him, if we don’t, the Robots will rule the earth. A scary prospect indeed.

So what do we do after 10 years when jobs will become increasingly difficult to get. Some experts are talking about UBI – Universal Basic Income. Already, some of the European countries are trying this out.

To conclude, I would say that things are not as bad as painted. There are silver linings among the dark clouds.

Knowledge workers will always be in demand. Today it may be big data, Hadoop, analytics, AI etc etc. I am told that an engineer who is well qualified and experienced in self driving cars can get a salary of US$ One million in Silicon Valley today. :eek: A mind boggling figures, isn't it for a 30 year old.

Coming to India, I see that this is a great opportunity for us to overtake the western countries due to our superior intelligence and education.

Kris Lakshmikanth is a Founder Chairman & Managing Director of The Head Hunters India Pvt. Ltd. Views expressed are personal.

Posts: 1189
Joined: 07 Jan 2006 00:37
Location: J4

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Zynda » 21 Jul 2017 10:09

On the same note...

IT Sector Job Losses Echo in Parliament, LS Clears IIIT Bill

New Delhi: The issue of massive IT job losses resonated in Parliament on Wednesday and members in the Rajya Sabha expressed concern over rampant layoffs. In its response, the government said it will work towards providing safeguards to the employees.

During the Question Hour in Upper House, Congress member Anand Bhaskar Rapolu raised the issue and sought to know about the steps the government was taking to protect the interests of the workers who were facing rampant and “unceremonious termination” of their services.

Responding to the concerns, Labour Minister Bandaru Dattatreya said the government would work to provide safeguards to the employees.

Dattatreya said the government was trying to provide social security and over one crore new workers have been brought into the ambit of the employees provident fund net. He said that an interest rate of 8.65% was being provided this year on EPF. The government was also focusing on portfolio management, he said.

During the discussion, members raised several related concerns about efforts required by the academia and industry to match demand and supply, need to increase placements, availability of faculty, among other things.

Posts: 974
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 02:30

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Rishirishi » 21 Jul 2017 18:06

IT industry in india has had continious growth for the past 25 years. Middle and top management is simply overpayed, because too many rely on providing cheap services.

For future, India will need to focus on quality not price.

BRF Oldie
Posts: 9380
Joined: 05 Oct 2010 02:54

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby KJo » 21 Jul 2017 19:45

What is happening in India is very normal and has happened in the US also. Back in the dotcom era, everyone and his mom was in IT. They needed people so badly, and there was a deluge of funds. RB was still a munna not yet in SillyValley.
Then came the bust and it was a disaster. All the pretenders left the field and joined other avenues of career.

Compare this to India, Indian IT had a fantastic run from 1997-98 to 2017 - about 20 years of boom time. People made fantastic amounts of money and had career growth and all that. It's been a great 2 decades, way above normal or average. Things are in correction now. Many will have to leave IT and get into other areas.

Frankly I don't know what has changed from last year because Trump has not changed any laws, he has merely barked and Indian IT has been spooked so much. "Automation" is an excuse, nothing cataclysmic has happened.

And yes, no more days of "shadow resource" or pushing in incompetent untrained bodies and calling them experts. Things will definitely change and it will be for the better.

It concerns me that IT kids are taking drastic actions like killing themselves because of a downturn. It just goes to show how much they were coddled and pampered by everyone - parents, teachers, managers... Life is tough and there is no free lunch. No one is responsible for ensuring anyone's livelihood. Back in the day, it was hard to get a call at Infosys. We had to study for the interviews which were tests and there would be sample questions. I remember getting Lathi charged by the guards at Kirloskar Company, Mysore when I had gone there for an interview along with many other graduate invitees. Here I was getting thrashed with a lathi and my dad had a company almost next door. :eek:
How these kids are spoilt today. They want everything handed to them. Else they strap on a bum and do soosai.

BRF Oldie
Posts: 2304
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: NJ

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Javee » 22 Jul 2017 12:43

Heh, I still remember the event where a security guard at Infosys saw our resume and told us that we don't have a chance and gave us tips to improve it.

Posts: 646
Joined: 13 Apr 2005 01:55

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Santosh » 23 Jul 2017 00:27

The current situation of layoffs is happening because IT companies are seeing that clients want to spend their budgets on automation, continuous delivery, big data, machine learning etc. none of which is trivial. If you have plain Java/.NET/PHP programming skills, it is a tough road to get on to the skill sets in demand. IT companies are simply taking advantage of zzzz barking, global slowdown what ever you call it and are trying to trim the fat. The bottom 10% will have to face the axe regardless of whether one is in tech or tech management. That's not too much considering the baggage IT industry has accumulated in the past few years.

Posts: 455
Joined: 15 Jul 2007 04:14

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby CalvinH » 23 Jul 2017 01:01

How many here works in corporate IT in leadership roles? the ones who actually decide the budgets. I will prefer hearing from them and not from disillusioned consulting/services folks..

BRF Oldie
Posts: 3749
Joined: 11 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby hanumadu » 17 Aug 2017 17:47
What slowdown? MNC tech firms are hiring thousands

"If a company wants to hire 1,000 people in a quarter for things like data analytics, India is the only place where you will find people available at that kind of scale, and it will remain so," Sandeep Mathur, former Oracle India managing director, said. MNCs, he said, had long stopped coming to India for cost. "They need people to address their growth challenges and even automation codes have to be written by humans."

BRF Oldie
Posts: 60181
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 18 Aug 2017 08:08

i can confirm that netz is in middle of large scale hiring both at lateral levels and on campus (they go to around 25 colleges all over india). I myself was in the team to a top rated instt in blr which grants mtech/integrated mtech in embedded and IT. I got to meet around 8 candidates from the shortlisted pool. all of them were sub-300 rank in GATE among 1 lakh exam takers. some were btech from nit, some from other colleges. some were very personable and confident, others a bit hesitant being first interview.

overall they are doing very interesting term projects - ai, ml, databases, analytics, computer vision, mobile, security, pattern recognition - eg a duo made a android app that registers into google maps and firebase , and a server that pulls that data from the back end. using this they able to play around with uberish concepts and employee geofencing. another had used a intel depth sensing camera and some math algorithms to detect hand (finger and palm) and use finger and palm movements as a smart pen for drawing. another had sourced some parts from aliexpress and made a low cost 3d printer. another built a model of a spine and embedded it with motion sensors to capture data on movement which can be used to judge patients by physios. another made something for voice recognition using cots chips. they also have a indoor drone lab and i could see people playing around there with circuit boards and flash programmers probably to try their own code.

all are familiar with java, javascript, python(some) android(some), latest frameworks, linux kernel, FOSS libraries for sound/motion/vision/matching (pythonCV is one)....the click nearly every box cos like amazon/fbook/google/msft or any other product co would look for.

in purely raw programming skills, the picture has not changed much - out of 5 maybe 1 was really some ways languages like java coddle the user. all could use Hashmaps in java but 1 could explain how to implement efficiently a hash table in C.

so we are producing good folks in spades, only thing is industry should use them well ...

BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 59
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 13:22

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby EswarPrakash » 18 Aug 2017 14:18

CalvinH wrote:How many here works in corporate IT in leadership roles? the ones who actually decide the budgets. I will prefer hearing from them and not from disillusioned consulting/services folks..

Cloud - whether it is a fad or not, it is having serious impact on traditional software delivery models. Infrastructure is being slowly shut down in large organisations to move to cloud. I am in the M$ side of things and they are seriously pushing cloud into a wide array of company sizes and they are seeing success. The traditional programming models targeting physical resources is being gobbled up by "client side" programming and that is a major shift and disconcerting to people who have been doing years of it. The current demand is for front-end development and I believe the churn is partly because of that.

BRF Oldie
Posts: 15607
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby chetak » 18 Aug 2017 21:05

Here is the text of the mail released by the Infosys board today:

It has come to the attention of the Board that a letter authored by Murthy, the Founder of Infosys has been released to various media houses attacking the integrity of the Board and Management of the Company alleging falling corporate governance standards in the Company. The Board takes great umbrage to the contents of the letter and places on record the following:

• Murthy's continuous assault, including this latest letter, is the primary reason that the CEO, Dr. Vishal Sikka, has resigned despite strong Board support.

• Murthy’s letter contains factual inaccuracies, already-disproved rumours, and statements extracted out of context from his conversations with Board members.

• The Board assures its shareholders, employees, customers and communities that it is committed not to be distracted by this misguided campaign by Murthy and will continue to adhere to the highest international standards of corporate governance as it executes its strategy of profitable growth for the benefit of all Infosys stakeholders.

• The Board has been engaged in a dialogue with the Founder to resolve his concerns over the course of a year, trying earnestly to find feasible solutions within the boundaries of law and without compromising its independence. These dialogues have unfortunately not been successful.

• The Board declines to speculate about Murthy’s motive for carrying out this campaign, including the latest letter. The Board believes it must set the record straight on the false and misleading charges made by Murthy because his actions and demands are damaging the Company and misrepresent its commitment to good corporate governance.

FACT: Since Vishal Sikka was appointed as MD and CEO in August 2014, Infosys has delivered competitive financial performance through profitable revenue growth.

• Infosys has, under the leadership of Vishal, developed and articulated a strategy to transform itself to meet the rapidly changing needs of the marketplace in the 21st century. The Company was lagging significantly behind industry in growth rates when Vishal took over and now we are in top quartile from a performance perspective.

• Infosys has grown in revenues, from $2.13B in Q1FY15 to $2.65B this past Q1. This was done while keeping a strong focus on margins, closing this past quarter at 24.1% operating margin, beating some competitors for the first time in many years, and improving against nearly everyone in the industry.

• The revenue per employee of the Company has grown for six quarters in a row. Attrition has fallen, from 23.4% in Q1FY15 to 16.9% this past Q1, and high performer attrition is much lower than the overall Company attrition.

• The Company grew its $100M+ clients from 12 in Q1FY15, to 18 this past Q1, and increased its large deal wins from ~$1.9B in FY15 to ~$3.5B this past year. This has all been done while improving overall utilization (excluding trainees), to a 15-yr high this past quarter, and an all-time high including trainees, while improving our cash reserves, rewarding Infoscions with a new equity plan, and returning Rs. 19,000 Crores as dividend (including dividend distribution tax) over the last three years. This has all been done while improving standing with clients, to the highest ever in the 12 years with a jump of 22 points in CXO satisfaction.

FACT: Infosys has continued to maintain the highest standards of corporate governance that the Company is known for.

• The Board of Infosys is carrying out its shareholder mandate to be an independent board, working towards the best interest of the stakeholders.

• The Board has sought the counsel of some of the most respected governance experts and legal advisors in the world, which have thoroughly investigated all anonymous allegations and concluded that no wrongdoing occurred. For Murthy to imply – with no evidence whatsoever – that three well-respected international law firms, members of the Infosys Board and certain employees are engaged in some grand global conspiracy to conceal information is not tenable on its face. It is important to mention here that Murthy was interviewed as part of the investigation by Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP in pursuance of the investigation in the Panaya acquisition, and was invited and welcomed to provide any information or evidence he believed would support the allegations being investigated. He did not provide any evidence since none exists. However, he has not mentioned this is his media communication against the investigation.

• As previously announced by the Company on June 23, 2017, the Board thoroughly investigated each anonymous allegation with the assistance of highly respected external counsel and experts and determined that the allegations were entirely without merit. The Board will make no additional disclosure of the investigation report because further disclosure would be inconsistent with best corporate audit practices and would compromise the confidence of employees that they could report honestly, openly, and candidly to the company in any future investigation or legal matter.

• The Board also believes that any further use of resources and time on these matters would be a distraction for the Company and would enable those wishing unfairly to attack Company personnel to continue this harmful conduct. Therefore, the Board has formally closed the investigations of the anonymous allegations so that the Company can focus on strategy, performance, and the creation of shareholder value. The Board remains focused to continuing to support Infosys’s strategy, which it believes is in the best interests of the Company’s shareholders, employees, clients and communities.

FACT: Murthy’s has made repeatedly made inappropriate demands which are inconsistent with his stated desire for stronger governance.


• Murthy has demanded that the Board adopt certain changes in policy, else he will attack board members in the public, which threat was carried out when the Board did not acquiesce;

• He has demanded that the Board appoint specific individuals onto the Board under similar threat, without appropriate disclosure and without regard to basic determinants of appropriateness or fit of the candidate for the role as a Board member;

• He has demanded operational and management changes under the threat of media attacks;

• Notwithstanding that the remuneration package of senior management was approved overwhelmingly by shareholders (including members of the promoter group), Murthy preferred his dictat to prevail with no place or tolerance for the outcomes of shareholder democracy.

• Murthy wanted the demands to be adhered to without attribution to him.

The Board has, in its fiduciary role to consider all shareholder inputs, treated each demand from Murthy as a suggestion and only acted on suggestions which we believed was in the best interest of the company and declined to act on others. Over time the demands have intensified, which when declined by the Board resulted in the threats of media attacks being carried out.

FACT: Murthy may be in the process of engaging in discussions with certain key stakeholders of the Company to further his criticisms of the Board and Management.

We are concerned that this type of campaign runs the risk of confusing investors and undermining the Company’s management efforts.

FACT: The Board is a fully independent Board, with professionals as its members who have been appointed by a clear majority of the shareholders.

• Given the commitment of the Board to remain independent and pursue a chosen strategy, the Board currently has no intention of asking Murthy to play a formal role in the governance of the organization.

• Co- Chair of the Board, Ravi Venkatesan has repeatedly over the past few weeks publicly stated his and the Boards support for Dr. Sikka. The Company categorically rejects any speculation or allegation of discord between the Infosys Board and Sikka.

Return to “Technology & Economic Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests