Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Seetal

Indian IT Industry

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Marten
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2176
Joined: 01 Jan 2010 21:41
Location: Engaging Communists, Uber-Socialists, Maoists, and other pro-poverty groups in fruitful dialog.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Marten » 04 Feb 2017 10:53

Rishirishi wrote:Need some advice here. Our company outsourced and now we are blessed with freshers marketed as professionals.
My question is. what would be the salary level for hardcore SAP professionals with at least 8-10 years of genuine experiance.

Which area and specialization? (i.e. ABAP or specific area SD/MM so on) and which location?
In Bangalore, 2.5x-3x years of exp. for the latter. Will be about 20% cheaper in Mumbai and Chennai.

ArmenT
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 4239
Joined: 10 Sep 2007 05:57
Location: Loud, Proud, Ugly American

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby ArmenT » 04 Feb 2017 12:34

Marten wrote:
Rishirishi wrote:Need some advice here. Our company outsourced and now we are blessed with freshers marketed as professionals.
My question is. what would be the salary level for hardcore SAP professionals with at least 8-10 years of genuine experiance.

Which area and specialization? (i.e. ABAP or specific area SD/MM so on) and which location?
In Bangalore, 2.5x-3x years of exp. for the latter. Will be about 20% cheaper in Mumbai and Chennai.

Just out of curiosity, why years-of-experience and why not volume of data/size of dataset/size of businesses worked in instead? It is completely possible for some person to have 10 years experience and be no better than a beginner, simply because their first job told them to turn a few knobs and so they manually complied without knowing what's going on for 10 years. Or they never really talked to business people or supply chain people to see what their problems are and how to solve them. Seen that happen with both SAP and Oracle admins.

Marten
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2176
Joined: 01 Jan 2010 21:41
Location: Engaging Communists, Uber-Socialists, Maoists, and other pro-poverty groups in fruitful dialog.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Marten » 04 Feb 2017 13:15

Armen, the basic assumption is that the candidate has expertise commensurate with the level being applied for. Basically, the progression within the current company will reflect in the current position held, and the salary. Scale of business really really matters only in positions where P&L responsibility exists. In most others, that will give an advantage due to the kind of challenges faced/solved, and insights gained.

Working on the world's largest system/deployment of any kind is obviously an advantage in most areas. :-) There are CxO level folks on the forum who will wax eloquent about the strategy aspect of hiring. For mundane things such as running the operation itself, folks like me can tell you folks with higher quality experience and the ability to absorb the lessons are prized because they can provide wisdom even though they might not actually realize it at that stage of their career. The 80-20 rule will ensure that most of your product teams are average folks while a few outstanding folks drive it to success. For service cos, the frameworks and metrics will drive service delivery and experience etc. is only required to improve productivity and related gains.

There are obviously more qualified folks to talk about hiring in the IT industry, but from my limited experience, the quality of candidates has been quite surprising. The best cos also end up hiring buffaloes, while some small setups appear to be able to hold on to the strong candidates. Basically, it all falls to chance! We have switched to hiring motivated freshers who are really into tech and do not pay much in comparison with the rest of the industry. It is easier to find and hold talent at that level. Most folks around 8-10 years are supposed to be TL or Junior Manger level and in reality, most struggle due to the quantum-oriented nature of our IT industry.

Rishirishi
BRFite
Posts: 991
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 02:30

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Rishirishi » 07 Feb 2017 03:16

Marten wrote:
Rishirishi wrote:Need some advice here. Our company outsourced and now we are blessed with freshers marketed as professionals.
My question is. what would be the salary level for hardcore SAP professionals with at least 8-10 years of genuine experiance.

Which area and specialization? (i.e. ABAP or specific area SD/MM so on) and which location?
In Bangalore, 2.5x-3x years of exp. for the latter. Will be about 20% cheaper in Mumbai and Chennai.


We are looking for FI/CO, Basis, SD, MM, SCM, ABAP, TR. All must have at least 5 years of 3rd line support/ functional experiance.
Are such people available and what will the salary range be?

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60477
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 07 Feb 2017 07:23

mewling has started from investors in IT cos for stock buybacks in the face of declining margins.
after missing a few, they are moving to yearly guidance or no guidance at all (INFY)

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60477
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 08 Feb 2017 13:37

Singha wrote:mewling has started from investors in IT cos for stock buybacks in the face of declining margins.
after missing a few, they are moving to yearly guidance or no guidance at all (INFY)

In another development, Infosys refused to comment on reports which stated that the company's board is meeting in next few days to consider a Rs. 12,000-crore share buyback.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60477
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 09 Feb 2017 08:05

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/comp ... 051249.cms

sikka vs founders @ infosys. 3 most prominent founders have written a letter to the board...

KJo
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9446
Joined: 05 Oct 2010 02:54

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby KJo » 10 Feb 2017 05:48

I see NRN's point though. Sikka seems to want to bring in the US culture of obscene payouts for nalayak higherups for effing up. An example is Marissa Motorma.

INFY and other companies did well for years only because the US Govt were compromised and they were able to pump in 1000^n "techies" into the country with huge "billing rates" . That window is closing.
What to do?
Will INFY layoff 1000^n employees, many of whom have no clue about what they are doing and are virtually unemployable? Google --> Copy --> Paste style of developing isn't a transferable skill outside the cocoon.

I'm distressed at what's happening at Infosys: Narayana Murthy :(( :((

BENGALURU: "The issue is not with Vishal Sikka but with the quality of governance at the board. It has slipped," said N R Narayana Murthy, co-founder and first chairman of Infosys, who along with his family, is the single largest shareholder (3.44%) in the company.

There has been intense speculation that the founders are at odds with the company's board and have red-flagged governance concerns over the last year. TOI, in its editions of February 8 and 9, has carried reports detailing the various flashpoints between the founders on one hand and CEO Sikka and the board on the other.

Speaking to TOI, Murthy said, "When David Kennedy (former legal and compliance head who quit recently) was appointed, it appears nobody went into details and asked, is it normal at Infosys to accept 12 months as severance pay, when the norm for all others is 3 months? It is the work of the chair of the remunerations committee to do that." When the former CFO Rajiv Bansal left, should he have got 30 months' severance pay?

Infosys's single largest shareholder, N R Narayana Murthy , on Thursday told TOI he was concerned at the impact of hefty payouts for some senior executives on employee morale.


"What kind of signal does this send to employees? So many employees at senior, middle-level and junior levels at Infosys are unhappy .I have received over 1,800 emails from various employees expressing their unhappiness at this situation. The common question they have all asked me is, if it is fair that they got only 80% of the variable part of compensation while somebody who has left the company is given 100% variable for the next two years after leaving.
These are a subset of the governance issues," he said.


SRoy
BRFite
Posts: 1829
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 06:45
Location: Kolkata
Contact:

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby SRoy » 11 Feb 2017 02:22

^^

What rubbish.

Just because all desi MNC's rob and cheat employees, doesn't mean others work the same way.

My former product team was laid off last Sept. With payout calculated as number of years in service, each counted as a month plus three months of gross. So, a chap with 10 years of service got 13 months of gross. Folks have paid off mortgages and taken a work break.

negi
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 12908
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Trying to mellow down :)

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby negi » 11 Feb 2017 08:47

NRM has become like Advani he seems to be pretty desperate and seeking relevance despite not contributing to Infy anymore ; a leader should either lead, follow or get out of the way this constant commentary from outside the playing arena is all useless . 1800 letter complaining that only 80% of bonus was paid out , seriously ? That is actually a great payout given that Infy missed their guidance target which company pays bonus despite missing guidance target ? Please don't list startups running on someone else's money. Even worse comparing a payout to severance package is lahori logic all companies give huge severance package to executives specially those who were heading critical business units as there are clauses in their contract which bar them from joining anyone who is deemed as a competition , fat packages are given as a compensation for such clauses.

TKiran
BRFite
Posts: 721
Joined: 13 Dec 2009 00:22

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby TKiran » 11 Feb 2017 11:30

^^^^NRNmurti is not a good business man, but a compassionate person, who considers employees as an asset for the company.

Lemme explain. He never started any other company, even if he started, he failed miserably. It was all the ducks lining up that he was successful in Infosys. What is great about him was that he executed his business model very very efficiently, while the others tried to copy him, they could not sustain(not talking about veg. Oil).

Ironically, his business model is unique that 50% of the revenue is consumed by salaries of employees. In order to control the bottom line, he made 40% of the salary variable. But the buffoons in HR made it complicated by splitting it into several components, and messed it up. Infy was the first company in India to have variable component in the salary. What I heard was that nrn wanted to "either give the variable component to the employees or cut it if they are not meeting the bottom line guidance".

But nandan opposed it saying that they need to introduce individual performance incentives and rankings, just like in GE. But nrn was opposed to it, his argument was that like in Japan, all the employees should get uniformly high salaries, and it is the duty of the management to predict and sustain the profitability of a company. But nandan prevailed.

Infy stopped being most revered company and for the first time there was attrition in infy.

But still I still consider him one of the most compassionate business man, who also succeeded in making infy. I would not have given employee stock options to every employee, but he did it.

Regarding his links with Ford foundation and his antics, I can't believe he acted like a traitor. I hate him for that reason.
Last edited by TKiran on 11 Feb 2017 14:21, edited 1 time in total.

negi
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 12908
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Trying to mellow down :)

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby negi » 11 Feb 2017 11:47

I don't agree with concept of compassionate businessman that's an oxymoron ; NRM was a leftist in his early days so his slant is understandable , but hen how Infosys structures it's salary structure is their own business however as an outsider what I found noteworthy is Infy slowed down because it had become insular it operated like a government PSU where only a closed group was running the show until Sikka broke that cartel. These are challenging times for likes of Infy and to me it looks like old timers are making noise partly because of their valuations tumbling and their desire to exercise contol. Welfare of employees is just a fig leaf.

If NRM was indeed a man of principles he would not have got his kid into a top position in the manner he did , by the way what's that lad upto these days ? Last I checked the numb nut was running some shady project on lines of Murty classical library which by the way is continuation of Sheldon Pollock's work , his pitashri does slip in a comment or two which betrays his leftist side but son is a pakka Mutu.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60477
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 11 Feb 2017 11:56

meantime mighty IBM completes its 5th year of sequentially declining revenue...

https://ycharts.com/companies/IBM/revenues

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60477
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 11 Feb 2017 12:02

accenture is also somewhere in mid 20 billions and sluggish I believe.

Javee
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2320
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: NJ

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Javee » 11 Feb 2017 16:11

^^ Total revenue Accenture is around $35B with the services business alone is $16B+. Look at their $100M+ customers, none of the ISP's can match them. Accenture is poised to grow even more bigger,they have the best digital agency in the world and they are beating us down in the larger transformation RFP's. Having a well recognized consulting unit and ties with CXO suites help them land these deals. :(

negi
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 12908
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Trying to mellow down :)

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby negi » 11 Feb 2017 16:43

Digital transformation is again another farce ; it is nothing but IT modernisation being sugar coated by marketing types . We are in a dark age where everything is being over hyped and being made out to be what it is not . Product cos are bullshiting about cloud and Consulting types about digital transformation . There is a wave of new designations right from digital marketer to digital transformation executive and most of them might not even know what digital actually means .

Javee
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2320
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: NJ

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Javee » 11 Feb 2017 22:46

negi, farce or not, Accenture is booking big numbers on that LOB (which we know is amalgamation of other transformation groups). They have had strong growth for last 5 years in both consulting and outsourcing divisions (53 to 47%). They are the behemoth to beat, the 700lb gorilla in town.

We delivered strong new bookings of $35.4 billion, a 7 percent increase in local currency. We grew net revenues 10.5 percent in local currency to a record $32.9 billion. We generated free cash flow of $4.1 billion and returned $4.0 billion in cash to shareholders through dividends and share repurchases.

Our five businesses Accenture Strategy, Accenture Consulting, Accenture Digital, Accenture Technology and Accenture Operations.

At the same time, we have transformed our services, rotating our business rapidly to what we call “the New”—digital-, cloud- and security-related services—which together accounted for about $13.5 billion or 40 percent of our total revenues in fiscal 2016.

Accenture Interactive , which was recognized by Ad Age as the largest and fastest-growing provider of digital marketing services, helps clients ranging from BMW to ENGIE, the global energy company, to transform their digital customer experiences.

We serve more than three-quarters of the FORTUNE Global 500 and 94 of the top 100. All of our top 100 clients have been clients for at least five years, and 98 have been clients for 10 years or more.


https://www.accenture.com/t20161030T213 ... df#zoom=50

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60477
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 12 Feb 2017 06:58

How is cognizant and capgemini doing?

negi
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 12908
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Trying to mellow down :)

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby negi » 12 Feb 2017 12:16

Javee I am not discounting the numbers ; what I am saying is those are just IT transformation or modenisation projects ; Digital transformation is just a re-badging exercise from marketing perspective and don't get me wrong it is not only Accenture specific , I made that observation across the board.

Coming to Accenture I know their model. Accenture has a dedicated business consulting arm and is a seprate entity and they also have a technology and services group which essentially is in same space as India's big 4 . Delloitte and PWC have also followed suit and hence outside of their core business i.e. auditing and management consulting they have also moved into technology and services on exact same lines as Accenture . In last couple of years McKinsey is doing the same thing they now have a services arm in India. Digital India poject was done by Mckinsey .

Key thing to find out will be what % of revenue Accenture's business consluting arm (If I am not wrong majority of those figures you quoted come from consulting) is making versus it's services arm I think that latter will face similar challaneges as likes of Infy and Indian big 4 because operating model is exactly the same. Same holds true for likes of Delloitte , PWC and Cap Gemini.

In my personal experience I do feel that Accenture's technology and services division is far more mature and well established in Massa as against likes of PWC and Delloitte . Consulting is a different space there it will have to compete with likes of BCG, McKinsey and likes.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60477
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 13 Feb 2017 08:32


Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60477
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 13 Feb 2017 08:34

^^ the boys had a blast at tiger globals expense and became in turn angels and VCs.

now tiger has taken over and attempting to salvage a situation that is going south on all fronts.

being singapore regd I guess they also get some tax benefits else they would not bother to register there...

people are saying a 80% reduction in top exec pay to bring in line with amazon is the least they should do to show some effort at frugality before bleating about level playing field etc. both being foreign regd cos, what is not level ?

KJo
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9446
Joined: 05 Oct 2010 02:54

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby KJo » 13 Feb 2017 09:17

Singha wrote:^^ the boys had a blast at tiger globals expense and became in turn angels and VCs.

now tiger has taken over and attempting to salvage a situation that is going south on all fronts.

being singapore regd I guess they also get some tax benefits else they would not bother to register there...

people are saying a 80% reduction in top exec pay to bring in line with amazon is the least they should do to show some effort at frugality before bleating about level playing field etc. both being foreign regd cos, what is not level ?


:rotfl:
Baap ka maal hai, udaao! I wish I got a gig like that.
What scams all these companies are. And if you point that out, please ask if you are jealous. Not just in India, but in Amreeka also (free-e-markit jannat).

Where o where did those dins go where you ran a tight ship?

Hai toba, I just got an epiphany. Maybe TCS managers ("what is a balance sheet?") were running Flopkart. :eek:

Marten
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2176
Joined: 01 Jan 2010 21:41
Location: Engaging Communists, Uber-Socialists, Maoists, and other pro-poverty groups in fruitful dialog.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Marten » 13 Feb 2017 09:37

KJo, Amazon spent nearly a billion in promotions too. There is virtually no difference between the two in spends OR losses.
Don't let your biases get in the way of a logical analysis of a tough market. Bansals are of course guilty of cronyship (aiding IITD chaps over all else) just the same as AMZN.IN (IIM over all else). Dig a little deeper and you'll see really good architects working on both. No other system in the world has managed such loads - yes! Even HP had failed when the entire ordering system was done online (ask me how I know it so well). So did the MS cashback system (again, done in-house). So... basically you could have had that gig if you were in the right place, had the right friends, and most of all, right credentials. No need to diss the PPTchaps who did what they did best - build a company that gives the second strongest marketing joint in the world a good run for their money!

Marten
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2176
Joined: 01 Jan 2010 21:41
Location: Engaging Communists, Uber-Socialists, Maoists, and other pro-poverty groups in fruitful dialog.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Marten » 13 Feb 2017 09:41

Singha wrote:^^ the boys had a blast at tiger globals expense and became in turn angels and VCs.

now tiger has taken over and attempting to salvage a situation that is going south on all fronts.

being singapore regd I guess they also get some tax benefits else they would not bother to register there...

people are saying a 80% reduction in top exec pay to bring in line with amazon is the least they should do to show some effort at frugality before bleating about level playing field etc. both being foreign regd cos, what is not level ?

The marketplace is regd abroad - not not the top three vendors or the cos that basically develop the platform and maintain the seller portals. Both have large investments in logistics and delivery (which is where the bulk of money is spent other than promos). Amit Agarwal is a decent person and has a reputation of being a better person to work with, unlike Bade B who models himself on Takla and wants to rule the market while still not picking the right talent because of the screening process in place and their internal division of labor.

Melwyn

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Melwyn » 13 Feb 2017 10:21



Members of this forum ought to have known better than to post a tweet from an Aaphole like Mahesh Murthy.

As for that compensation comparison:

1. He compares CEO/CTO/CPO of Flipkart with HR director at Amazon.in. Why not compare with CEO/CTO of Amazon?
2. What is the breakup of comp? Most likely this includes things like ESOPs as most startups are more generous with that.

Of course let :rotfl: on the poor Indians.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60477
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 13 Feb 2017 10:49

Er :( , he is comparing similar roles based on in-country pay. while amzn operates in some other markets, Fkart is india onlee - so india role == world role.

i know about murthy but I feel in this case he has a point - does uber, airbnb and other unicorns pay 10x to their execs vs some older incumbents?

yes certainly some of that comp pkg might be stock but I think they have some periodic buyback provision wherein employees can sell these phantom vested stock to company, as its pre-IPO. this helps them cash out.

they also completely caved in and hired puneet soni for $1 mil all in cash. his sole 'big bang' was ping - the social shopping feature, which flopped..and then he deftly left. anyone with any brains would know you cannot parachute in SV types here with great hype and hope for a massive uptick. he exploited it to the hilt ofcourse and who would blame him.

Melwyn

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Melwyn » 13 Feb 2017 12:20

Still, without the full breakup it is not fair to compare the comps.
BTW whats the deal with this Puneet Soni dude? He acts like a hot shot product guy but seems to only have flops to his name.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60477
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 13 Feb 2017 13:18

A believer in fail fast....the zuck principle

asgkhan
BRFite
Posts: 1648
Joined: 16 Apr 2009 17:19
Location: Helping BRF research how to seduce somali women

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby asgkhan » 13 Feb 2017 13:33

What is with the fracas b/w idi0t mur-tea sr and Sikka ? Looks like Sikka is planning to jump ship hence these golden para-choots and handshakes all round for the Sr Exec and Strategee duffers.

KJo
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9446
Joined: 05 Oct 2010 02:54

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby KJo » 13 Feb 2017 22:27

ha ha.
These companies are all :twisted: when it was their turn to finish others off, but when the tables are turned, they :(( to the Gobermint.

Now I know that FK isn't TCS/INFY and does not have the same body-dumping model but it sure is hilarious when Indian IT companies demand "level playing field" now when earlier they were pushing in hajaaar "techies" and damaging the local job market and almost completely killed the entry level market which then became a self-foolfilling prophesy of "no talent onleee" from greedy US companies and "if you get rid of us, then US will collapse onleee" from Indian IT cos.

Flipkart's Sachin Bansal seeks level-playing field for local cos

:rotfl:

Highlighting the rise of "selective globalisation", Flipkart co-founder Sachin Bansal today said a level-playing field is needed to ensure that local companies can build solutions for the Indian market and don't get "prematurely killed" by foreign competition.

"Another big thing that is happening across the world is the rise of anti-globalisation... it was all the time in China and US, selective globalisation rather. I meant there should be level playing field," Bansal said at the IAMAI India Digital Summit here. Bansal has, in the past too, voiced his opinion on supporting Indian companies against 'capital dumping' by foreign companies.


Bansal Sir. You are a billionaire, so we all applaud that. But your business model is faulty. You cannot continue to make more and more losses and then claim to be doing it to gain market share. People care about the product and price, not who they buy it from. There is no loyalty. Amazon has similar losses but Bezos Sir has deeper pockets and is looking to drive you out of business.

I have thought long and hard about a way out for FK but all I can think of is selling to Takla or someone else. I don't think FK can survive for too long.

KJo
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9446
Joined: 05 Oct 2010 02:54

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby KJo » 13 Feb 2017 22:38

Marten wrote:KJo, Amazon spent nearly a billion in promotions too. There is virtually no difference between the two in spends OR losses.
Don't let your biases get in the way of a logical analysis of a tough market. Bansals are of course guilty of cronyship (aiding IITD chaps over all else) just the same as AMZN.IN (IIM over all else). Dig a little deeper and you'll see really good architects working on both. No other system in the world has managed such loads - yes! Even HP had failed when the entire ordering system was done online (ask me how I know it so well). So did the MS cashback system (again, done in-house). So... basically you could have had that gig if you were in the right place, had the right friends, and most of all, right credentials. No need to diss the PPTchaps who did what they did best - build a company that gives the second strongest marketing joint in the world a good run for their money!


Absolutely. But Takla of Amazon has a plan and these guys don't seem to. If they do, then I would love it if someone can explain to me. Takla is just spending equal or more in India and incurring huge losses but he does not care because he is spending to drive the competition out. My guess is once that happens, then he will pull back on the hiring and discounts and customers will come down to earth. FK is using up investor money and I am surprised that all the smart IIM/ISB YemBeeYays in the Tiger Co are not raising alarm flags. I wonder if everyone is on the take somehow?

Yes, I am sure there are smart tech people in FK also, but that does not matter. The business model is bad, so I don't know how they can sustain for long. Lucky buggers who rode the horse for that long! :)

pandyan
BRFite
Posts: 344
Joined: 31 Jul 2006 05:12

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby pandyan » 14 Feb 2017 12:34

Retail business model is bad. Have to battle low margin, fake goods, high shipping costs and logistics. no differentiation other than price. People flock to lowest cost. Amazon makes most money from aws. Fk has to become cloud platform for others to use.

Chichi youber is focused on driving competition away and eventually would emulate aws model or amazon would copy über model and convert it into a platform for others to launch über like products

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60477
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 14 Feb 2017 15:06

Paytm might morph into a b2b online market on the back of alibaba platform whose annual turnover is 10x of amzn.

Flipkart ahould have gone that route probably 2 years ago. They already had the tools billing listing etc in place and just build more data centers..being cos online..help them trade b2c and b2b and take a cut like alibaba..build cloud sw teams like aws did. The other cloud hosting providers in india are not that great or large. Yet.

Just trying the same line of being another amzn is not going to work. Amzn ecommerce is a 2% margin business but with cash cow aws takla can ride easy. He has already tasted bitter failure in cheen as has uber vs the anointed national champions like didi and alibaba

If alibaba could transform so should have flipkart. It may be too late now as nothing new seems to be on the cards

pandyan
BRFite
Posts: 344
Joined: 31 Jul 2006 05:12

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby pandyan » 14 Feb 2017 22:06

interestingly, i heard that netflix uses lot of aws infrastructure for things like movie recommendations etc; but core movie streaming is done through their own proprietary hardware at edges.

to survive fk has to be become middleman or enabler for others

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 60477
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: Lupine but moderately dharmic

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 14 Feb 2017 22:14

and this where the lack of digital economic heft hurts us vs massa or cheen.
their online markets are N times of ours
cellular data traffic and wired internet traffic N times of ours
broadband penetration N times of ours

even if someone has a great idea, without the supporting economy its not economically viable.

for now they could look to being public cloud for india cos and offering low latency with datacenters in all parts of india.

Marten
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2176
Joined: 01 Jan 2010 21:41
Location: Engaging Communists, Uber-Socialists, Maoists, and other pro-poverty groups in fruitful dialog.

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Marten » 14 Feb 2017 22:39

It will take us a decade to leapfrog other markets. Remember we will drive efficiency by buying only VFM. Therefore once this VC money is snorted away as discounts and incentives, customer loyalty will switch back to whoever can survive on the leanest margin.

Des ki mitti me Sikander ne bhi apna dum toda.

I truly believe Amazon will become a ghar ghar ka kirana with its basics brand. Also, it will succeed because we are like this onlee.

KJo
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9446
Joined: 05 Oct 2010 02:54

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby KJo » 14 Feb 2017 22:55

Hard to blame Indian IT if one thinks about it. In the good days, money flowed in and there wasn't much to be done. So no body did. Now there is, so people are scrambling. This is not just in India, it is everywhere. Only the truly wise are always looking for potential threats, and those are very rare and few.

Will be interesting to see how Indian IT adjusts to any changes.

Marten, can you think of any area/niche where a new Indian company can find a spot than Amazon cannot get to (easily) or which won't be worth its time?

Yayavar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4759
Joined: 06 Jun 2008 10:55

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Yayavar » 15 Feb 2017 00:16

^^In the good old days things were attempted. There were completed products : spreadsheets, word processing, compilers etc. There was 'amidha' simputer with hand gestures way before others caught on. People could pirate and didnt buy the s/w - it was easier to get MS word for free than to pay for a different word processor.
C-DAC Param provided good work on transputers. Was good fun. The body shoppers like Infosys made money though and it was easier thing to do.

Wipro and PSI and a few others also had their line of unix servers too, and PCs.

asgkhan
BRFite
Posts: 1648
Joined: 16 Apr 2009 17:19
Location: Helping BRF research how to seduce somali women

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby asgkhan » 15 Feb 2017 08:47

After tasting defeat in fake-land china I dont think Amazon will let go of India. They will crush FK and other pretenders to the throne. Even Google is afraid of Amazon as they have the technology and base to retain customers.

FK is just circling the drain !!!

Javee
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2320
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: NJ

Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Javee » 15 Feb 2017 09:02

negi wrote:Javee I am not discounting the numbers ; what I am saying is those are just IT transformation or modenisation projects ; Digital transformation is just a re-badging exercise from marketing perspective and don't get me wrong it is not only Accenture specific , I made that observation across the board.

Some of them are just re-tagged but they genuinely do a lot of digital work, mostly in the marketing and B2C area. Them and Deloitte have the biggest digital creative agency in the world. Their experience labs are simply out of the world.

Key thing to find out will be what % of revenue Accenture's business consluting arm (If I am not wrong majority of those figures you quoted come from consulting) is making versus it's services arm I think that latter will face similar challaneges as likes of Infy and Indian big 4 because operating model is exactly the same. Same holds true for likes of Delloitte , PWC and Cap Gemini.

They make about $16B from their outsourcing services, rest all are from consulting. Theey don't face similar challenges as our big 4 because they have stronger relationships than us and they sell end to end services better than us. Truth to be told, I'm yet to see an Accenture strategy work being implemented by some one else, it may happen, but it's rare.

McK has also gone in the services business but unlike the big 4, they concentrate more on the operations side.


Return to “Technology & Economic Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: deWalker, srinebula and 8 guests