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Indian IT Industry

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SBajwa
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby SBajwa » 27 Jun 2017 22:27

by Prasad Of predominantly overseas students in many many sectors. In many sectors americans just dont enter. How many stem graduates are americans?


Nope! It is coming back., More and more young children are going in STEM fields., Math and science teachers are getting more salaries! Indians and Chinese are part of research (in USA) but still majority are non-indian, non-chinese.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 27 Jun 2017 23:49

Image

https://itif.org/publications/2016/02/2 ... ted-states

one of the reasons for less US born going to MS grads is that the good or even moderate ones get decent jobs after BE and many have student debt to pay off

my wild guess would be the bottom 70% of the US are not given the education and income level to make a career entry via STEM UG. the top 30% are doing fine and thats still 100 mil people out of 300...which explains the massive size and teeth of the US STEM 'complex' - there are hardly 1 mil indian STEM people there and of that probably 10,000 in academia, rest in industry doing stuff from very high end to very low end. rest 1 mil indics would be family based migrants in business mostly.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 27 Jun 2017 23:51

note that of foreign born, Europe = India + China, which suggests a huge fraction of european elite students are going to US. you can anyways see it in the Phd roster of any top univ, or the professors lists - a lot are europeans who did phd there and stayed on.

for europeans in usa jobs or academia - funding is better, freedom is more, salary more, taxes are less.

if we look back at history, 60s ad 70s, europe still had dozens of top notch univs , universal education at govt expense, and we had a few known instts like du, presidency and the pathetically small 5 iits the MUTUs want to brag about. stands to reason the Euros were sending far far more MS and Phd candidates even then.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby SBajwa » 28 Jun 2017 00:09

Even back in 1920s-1940s., Europeans were coming over to USA for higher studies and staying on. From space travel to Atom bomb to Plastics to medicine all innovations were due to Research and collaboration between the european and american scientists. The disruption of second world war caused many scientists (especially jews) to move over to USA.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 28 Jun 2017 08:31

US seems to have always benefitted from chaos and disorder in other parts, while being a safe and well funded haven across the ocean.

the elite scientists of europe incl the WW2 peenemunde rocket crew who bootstrapped NASA
the cream of cream of indians from the 5 old IITs - i took a look at the indic names in databases for IBM r&d and pretty much all of them were CSE grads from iits. top 100 material, year after year, decade after decade....
cheen....soko...taiwan...
middle east ....

so it probably benefits them to keep the pot boiling a controlled temp all over - enough to drive the elites into its lap, but low enough to act as profitable export market.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby arshyam » 28 Jun 2017 21:21

KJo wrote:Google breaks the law and pays a hefty fine. Well deserved.

High time countries crack down on crooked companies screwing around with laws to get unfair advantage. :evil:

It's okay saar, we believe you're neutral onlee :rotfl:

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 29 Jun 2017 11:45

IBnlive.--reasonable proposal imo and far below the unrealistic 130k that was used for scare value

Washington: US Labour Secretary Alexander Acosta has called for increasing the minimum salary of foreign workers on H-1B visas, the most sought-after by Indian IT firms, from the existing USD 60,000 to at least USD 80,000. Acosta told a Congressional panel that it would address to a large extent the problem of replacement of American workers by foreign workers coming to the US on H-1B visas.

"Congress has not updated that USD 60,000 threshold over time. If Congress were to update that simply for inflation, it would bring it up to well over USD 80,000 and many if not most of the situations like you have identified, would be eliminated

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Prasad » 29 Jun 2017 16:19

Even 60k is quite a large sum imo. That salary should be adjusted to role and cola. A single blanket floor makes no sense.

KJo
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby KJo » 29 Jun 2017 17:33

arshyam wrote:
KJo wrote:Google breaks the law and pays a hefty fine. Well deserved.

High time countries crack down on crooked companies screwing around with laws to get unfair advantage. :evil:

It's okay saar, we believe you're neutral onlee :rotfl:


Thank God, I can now sleep in peace. :P :twisted:

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 30 Jun 2017 08:24

i was just thinking, a internet switch or router is also a great example of existing and working ML

after initial setup they talk among themselves using protocols like STP, ospf, bgp, pim, ldp, rip, eigrp etc - machines learn from machines and adapt their behaviour (topology maps, cost of routes)
they also adaptively load balance based on measures of traffic
they do deep packet inspection for service delivery, security etc
they have redundant warm standby and zero packet loss upgrade features
other machines can talk to them using N number of ways like rest api , openflow etc
and trend is toward even more learning from hw and sw and feeding that into centralized powerful controller clusters like tetration
http://www.networkworld.com/article/308 ... tions.html
this is just one example. every co out there has something similar. this is dedicated 3-rack approach(costly), others like AVI networks sell VMs with their analysis sw that you can deploy anywhere https://avinetworks.com/product/

and they are everywhere, encircling the world in a physical web of copper and fibers and space above in a invisible web of RF connections whether cell towers or comsats

in that sense after 20 yrs in the salt mines, even i should call myself a ML certified munna :)

Singha
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 30 Jun 2017 14:20

a cake and some sugarcane juice. my BP is under control now...

just spent an hour with a interview candidate - some 6 yrs of exp incl at a well known CPU GPU vendor
middle rung scores in 10, 12 and BE ( being from my board i was surprised as 10, 12 are not hard in my state)
good projects on paper but ...

takes 30 mins to write code to insert a node in a sorted singly linked list
has no idea of trees or hash tables even in theory
could not explain how a game that starts on CPU seamlessly uses the GPU for graphical ops.
does not seem to have written large pieces of code on his own, just leveraged open src and then smallish things on it

while FOSS is good, i fear we are raising a generation of younglings who will have no clue on a lot of things because "sugar" of ready made code is just a few taps away, stackoverflow recipes etc ... whoever can write all the underlying libraries of large open src tools (for thousands to use) will command the technology high ground it seems. some human somewhere wrote openGL , or kafka or flume ....

anyway he also failed the written test before being sent to me as a 2nd chance, so it was a thumbs down from both test and me.

with a lot of firing done , we are in hiring mode now ...

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby negi » 30 Jun 2017 22:01

^ I never understand the logic behind firing people and then hiring unless it is really the ones who are unfit for new project/assignment who are fired.

In my personal knowledge lay offs spoil the vibe and disrupt the camaraderie for a long enough time to derail projects . I personally believe that people should be made accountable and fired based on performance of an individual unfortunately what happens is companies during the good times accumulate lard and hire very liberally and then when going gets tough just ask managers to send them list of names , disciplined workers who are quiet types can get victimized during such a churn as they have no one to vouch for them.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 01 Jul 2017 09:35

one VP said its due to cost, another VP said it was not at all due to cost. the message from top was confusing. mgrs and dirs all silent on it.
so the troops are anxious and believe what they want to believe. some are credulous, some more firm of mind.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Rajesh_MR » 01 Jul 2017 10:12

Singha wrote:one VP said its due to cost, another VP said it was not at all due to cost. the message from top was confusing. mgrs and dirs all silent on it.
so the troops are anxious and believe what they want to believe. some are credulous, some more firm of mind.

Were both VPs in same P&L? If not both might be reflecting situation in their respective BUs. Even with-in same BUs there could be further department level nuances

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 01 Jul 2017 10:16

there are kind of co rulers of the BU but yes different products and depts.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby KJo » 02 Jul 2017 00:44

Comments?

Bengaluru tech firm to female employee: Not responsible for your safety after you log out

The murder of Prathibha, a BPO employee way back on December 13, 2005 shocked the entire industry. This tragic incident led to many changes especially with better safety measures being implemented by IT/BT and BPO companies.

However, in Bengaluru where the incident took place, it looks some companies are still trying to save money by not providing their women employees who work in the night shift with cab pick-up and drop facilities.

One such is IDC Technologies that is located on Hosur Main Road in Madiwala. This company has its Global Operating Centres in the US, Canada, Mexico and India.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 02 Jul 2017 17:30

I would solicit your comments on the harassment of women in SV about which I have made a few posts in the phone n gizmo thread instead.

you may say you are not involved and didnt do anything....and you would be right.

so then why are you asking for our comments on the piece you posted ? just because some of us live in bluru? you live in yumrika to brother and are equally "answerable" :D

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby KJo » 02 Jul 2017 19:17

Singha wrote:I would solicit your comments on the harassment of women in SV about which I have made a few posts in the phone n gizmo thread instead.

you may say you are not involved and didnt do anything....and you would be right.

so then why are you asking for our comments on the piece you posted ? just because some of us live in bluru? you live in yumrika to brother and are equally "answerable" :D


Singha, I fail to see what you are getting at.
Right is right and wrong is wrong regardless of who does it.

Harassment of women is wrong. The only loophole I think is if the girl likes you and you tease her a bit and she pretends to be annoyed (but giggles inside) but that is "consensual harassment".
All the SV stuff needs to be dealt with by law, not just by the fellow resigning.

Did you think i would say anything different? You seem gleeful about something.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Marten » 02 Jul 2017 20:05

The US based co that decided not to protect employees in India must be strongly condemned and prosecuted for negligence.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Sachin » 02 Jul 2017 21:56

KJo wrote:Comments?
Bengaluru tech firm to female employee: Not responsible for your safety after you log out

Point #1: Looks like this report is a hatchet job targetting a specific company. Note, how the details of the company are clearly mentioned. Could be a disgruntled employee using his/her media contacts to put up a news story. If it would be more established companies, it would have been words like "IT Major/Colonel/Brigadier", "XYZ company located in Elec. city" etc. etc.
Point #2: There are strict rules now in force to prevent incidents like what happened to Prathiba. The company or the IT SEZ Establishment have the onus of providing safe travel for women employees. Most of these firms now have a good rostering mechanism in which details of women going by cabs, and the driver details are all recorded. A member from the security staff (private agency, not policemen) would also go along with these cabs.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby asgkhan » 03 Jul 2017 10:09

GAVeenas cannot sit in the front of the cab.
Security guard when dropping after 7:00 PM and pickup before 6:00 AM
GAVeenas cannot be picked up first and dropped last.
I agree with Sachin-saar, seems like a targetted hit. HR and Transport Facilities admin would dhoti shiver if any of the above rules were broken. Instant termination onlee.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Prasad » 03 Jul 2017 10:13

The firm mentioned in that article came across as very shady. It isn't an across the board problem.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby rvishwakarm » 06 Jul 2017 17:41

It is what we all do. Do we provide security or care for once the maid leaves our house?
Guess even in America you people don't.
KJo wrote:Comments?

Bengaluru tech firm to female employee: Not responsible for your safety after you log out

The murder of Prathibha, a BPO employee way back on December 13, 2005 shocked the entire industry. This tragic incident led to many changes especially with better safety measures being implemented by IT/BT and BPO companies.

However, in Bengaluru where the incident took place, it looks some companies are still trying to save money by not providing their women employees who work in the night shift with cab pick-up and drop facilities.

One such is IDC Technologies that is located on Hosur Main Road in Madiwala. This company has its Global Operating Centres in the US, Canada, Mexico and India.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby SRoy » 06 Jul 2017 17:56

Very interesting comparison of BPO workers with maids.

As far as I know, maids don't work outside of regular working hours and they commute within regular public transport availability hours.

Maids don't get fired or threatened with pay cut or lectured on professional responsibilities just because they got late or skipped due to accidents, law and order issues, floods, deluge etc.

And also all decent families readily make arrangements for a maids to stay over if they do get stuck due to natural calamities, unexpected work, public law and order issues etc. In fact, maids that do work for all the hours in a single household i.e. dedicated work do have such arrangements.

Finally, people do check on phone etc, if they do require maids to leave at late hours.

It is a funny topic here in this IT thread. Class prejudices of few posters, moral bankruptcy of the West comes out in full glory.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 09 Jul 2017 13:14

https://soundcloud.com/user-675510322/l ... hr-manager

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/others/news/tec ... =home-tech

if you let go a employee atleast give some notice period and a personal meeting instead of a tough call from a HR drone.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Zynda » 09 Jul 2017 15:03

^^AFAIK, in Massa this is how firing happens. They are informed on Friday afternoon that it will be the last day but usually the decision is conveyed by the manager personally. In fact, the terminated employee will be scheduled an appointment with a HR representative about severance package (if the employee is a direct one), unemployment benefits applying info (if the employee is USC/GC) the following week.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby negi » 09 Jul 2017 15:24

^In Massa it is fine because you can also leave company on such short notice or without any notice ; here in desh you have to provide a notice period of at least month in product cos and 2-3 months in service cos it is so strict that notice periods have to be bought by prospective employer if they need the person to join at short notice.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Zynda » 09 Jul 2017 15:58

Nope. In Massa, there is a notice period as well. Not as long as here in desh perhaps but the usual 2 weeks and most of the people I knew who quit served the notice period.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby schinnas » 09 Jul 2017 16:14

Some European companies are looking at opening software development centers in eastern europe where cost of operation and payroll cost of senior engineers are on par with that of India in addition to added benefit of closer timezone. Many British companies have all their IT centers in Eastern Europe without even considering India. India retains its cost advantage only for BPO or very low cost, low skilled engineering such as maintenance, manual QA, etc.

With increased automation, this is ripe for disaster in the long term. Work culture needs to be changed so that engineers develop a problem solving and ownership mindset as opposed to just being code monkeys. Very rarely is the case currently. Another option is to really increase the technical competence and quality of the Indian IT workforce. Except for the top 5%, rest of Indian IT engineers cannot justify all the jargon and years of experience in their resume.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby negi » 09 Jul 2017 16:28

Zynda wrote:Nope. In Massa, there is a notice period as well. Not as long as here in desh perhaps but the usual 2 weeks and most of the people I knew who quit served the notice period.

I have worked there notice period there is not enforceable if someone wants to leave in a day or two people do get to leave no questions asked , it is mostly a matter of professional courtesy some extend it some don't. In India that period cannot be negotiated except for adjusting leaves against that period .

In USA the labour laws are very clear moreover since no one in USA asks for experience certificate no one has to be nice while leaving people leave immediately if they feel like here people have to be nice and finish all the rituals because HR formalities need to be taken care of , experience letters will not be given if you do not do your time.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 09 Jul 2017 20:01

A section of cos in massa send a security guy to escort out a laid off staffer.cube is packed by admin and sent later.

But that is over there. Does not look good asking person to put in papers or else termination . Implied dhamki is termination letter will set a nasty tone to spoil the entry into next job

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby KJo » 09 Jul 2017 20:59

Zynda wrote:Nope. In Massa, there is a notice period as well. Not as long as here in desh perhaps but the usual 2 weeks and most of the people I knew who quit served the notice period.


Well to be fair, the notice period in the US is "optional"? Legally they can fire you any moment and you can quit any moment. No one can stop you or harm you in any way.
The 2 weeks is generally when you want to leave on good terms and transition seamlessly. If you are not leaving on good terms (bad boss), you can just email your resignation and leave.

The market decides everything. In the good days people got huge raises when the left. They had the power. Now employers have power. In some time employees will have power again.

A section of cos in massa send a security guy to escort out a laid off staffer.cube is packed by admin and sent later.

But that is over there. Does not look good asking person to put in papers or else termination . Implied dhamki is termination letter will set a nasty tone to spoil the entry into next job


When it happened to me, in one place HR stood a distance away and were respectful, they tried their best not to make me feel humiliated. In another instance the Pakistani American HR lady informed me and said she generally escorts, but will not for me, so I could just pack and leave at my time.

We face this all the time for no fault of ours. This is IT. Everyone lives and dies by the same rules. There are no holy cows.

The good thing here is getting laid off is not as bad on you here as it is in India. If you get laid off there for no fault of yours, I expect knowing our mentality that they will treat you as a pariah. We don't have to show lame "experience letters" for next job. This is a problem in India because if you had a bad boss, you are effed. You quit on him and you get a bad letter and cannot get a new job.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby KJo » 09 Jul 2017 21:06

Singha wrote:https://soundcloud.com/user-675510322/layoffs-conversations-of-an-indian-it-employee-with-hr-manager

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/others/news/tec ... =home-tech

if you let go a employee atleast give some notice period and a personal meeting instead of a tough call from a HR drone.


How can you give notice period?

What if employee goes bonkers and starts to send nasty emails to senior management and customers and cause trouble in areas he/she can mess things up?

I think it is okay to ask people to leave immediately but pay them salary and keep them on employee roles for some more months as a "notice period".

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Zynda » 09 Jul 2017 22:09

My contract if I remember correctly included a term 2 weeks notice when I am resigning but it was stated clearly that the employer can terminate my employment at any time without any prior notice. May be it depends from Industry to industry.

KJo wrote:I think it is okay to ask people to leave immediately but pay them salary and keep them on employee roles for some more months as a "notice period".

That is what some companies do here. Ask the employees to clear their desks off but they will keep them on payroll during notice period.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Javee » 10 Jul 2017 02:16

rvishwakarm wrote:It is what we all do. Do we provide security or care for once the maid leaves our house?
Guess even in America you people don't.

This is in poor taste. BPO workers are not maids, not that there is something wrong with the maids. Also, the company is responsible for the safety and well being of the employees if they work late hours. It's a standard practice in all the tier 1 and tier 2 companies in India. Remember, employees are the assets for these companies, even if it's a BPO shop. And, BTW, if the maid only works in your house you are still responsible for her well being, if they don't show up during a work week, you are truly effed.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 14 Jul 2017 08:37


SRoy
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby SRoy » 14 Jul 2017 09:36

Form guilds, enforce minimum wages, take back control from those that have nothing to do with the trade except robbing the hard earned fruits of your toil.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Vikas » 14 Jul 2017 15:44

About Resignations, Desi Companies blackmail you into staying back for 90 days or return money for the left over period even though these blood sucking sweatshops are laying off people.

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 14 Jul 2017 15:56

things that Govt could mandate:
- minimum 30 days severance pkg or upto the notice period whichever is longer.
- you can ask ppl to leave the next day but pay them for 30 days
- health insurance cover must be there for 3 months and emp has option of paying something for 3 more months. kind of a desi cobra. often aeging parents are tied to this.
- employer must give a relieving letter without coercive tactics do this, do that.
- maximum notice period 45 days.
- illegal to keep degree certificates and passports in custody

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Re: Indian IT Industry

Postby Singha » 14 Jul 2017 16:15

infy ceo came in a driverless golf cart today built in their mysore office. anyone know what tech is used ?


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