Indian Autos Thread -2

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Mollick.R
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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Mollick.R » 12 Nov 2020 14:01

Global NCAP gives zero rating to this Maruti car for adult safety – Know

New Delhi: Vehicle safety group Global NCAP on Wednesday said it has given zero star for safety to Maruti Suzuki's entry level model S-Presso for adult occupant protection, a finding which the company derided saying that it complies with Indian government regulations. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Vehicles are rated from zero to five based on their safety features and automobiles with higher rating are considered more safe for occupants.

The Maruti Suzuki S-Presso has achieved a disappointing zero star rating in the new round of #SaferCarsForIndia crash tests, Global NCAP said in a statement.
..................

The Global NCAP also tested Hyundai's Grand i10 Nios and Kia Motors' Seltos along with S-Presso in the current round of evaluation. Grand i10 Nios received two stars for adult occupant protection and two stars for child occupant protection.

On the other hand, Kia Seltos achieved three stars for adult occupant protection and two stars for child occupant protection. Commenting on S-Presso, the Global NCAP said the vehicle's structure was unstable and should be improved.?The safety body also rated the footwell area of the model as unstable.

"Child occupant protection showed poor results for both child dummies in the dynamic test explained by the poor performance of the restraint systems," Global NCAP said. The car does not offer three point belts in all positions as standard and has no ISOFIX anchorages for the child restraint systems, it added.

"It is very disappointing that Maruti Suzuki, the manufacturer with the largest share of the Indian market, offers such low safety performance for Indian consumers," Global NCAP Secretary General Alejandro Furas said. Domestic manufacturers like Mahindra and Tata have demonstrated high levels of safety and protection for their customers, both achieving five star performance, he added. "Surely, it's time for Maruti Suzuki to demonstrate this commitment to safety for its customers," Furas noted.

When contacted, Maruti Suzuki India said that safety is a critical issue and is therefore closely regulated by governments around the world as they are responsible for the safety of the people in their countries. "It cannot be left to the opinion of any self proclaimed party. The Government of India has recently increased the stringency of car crash test standards and made them identical to European standards. All products of the company are fully compliant with these global standards and duly tested and certified by the Government of India," it added.
The MS guy is speaking age old parroted BS.......... Global NCAP frontal test is at 64 kmph, however same for Indian standard (BNV-SAP) is 56 kmph............

The Global NCAP also rated structure and footwell area of Grand i10 Nios as unstable. It rated the structure of Seltos as a borderline case unstable. It also rated the model's footwell area as unstable.

Read Full Article Here//
https://zeenews.india.com/automobile/global-ncap-gives-zero-rating-to-this-maruti-car-for-adult-safety-know-2324293.html

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Mollick.R » 12 Nov 2020 14:13

This link has the Arrogant Tin Ka Dubba Car Manufacturer's Crash Test Video

Maruti Suzuki S-Presso Hatchback Scores Zero Star in Global NCAP Safety Crash Test

https://www.news18.com/news/auto/maruti-suzuki-s-presso-hatchback-scores-zero-star-in-global-ncap-safety-crash-test-3069758.html

Mollick.R
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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Mollick.R » 12 Nov 2020 14:21

A More Detailed Article..............
Global NCAP crash test: Maruti Suzuki S-Presso scores zero stars while Kia Seltos gets 3-star rating
Car News Times Drive Desk Times Drive Desk Updated Nov 11, 2020 | 18:27 IST

https://www.timesnownews.com/auto/car-n ... ing/680544

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Rishi_Tri » 13 Nov 2020 06:48

^^The smaller of the Maruti Suzuki cars were always rumored to be matchboxes on four wheels. What I find disconcerting is that Maruti Suzuki continues to bring out vehicles that are patent safety hazards. S-Presso is absolute dabba and looks unsafe.

It is interesting that Kia Seltos has scored Three Stars. In the adjacent category Tata Nexon has Five Star rating (it had Four Star rating and worked to get Five Star rating) and Vitara Brezza has Four Star rating. So Hyundai / Kia has compromised safety in favor of superficial features. Let's see how does Sonet perform in these tests.

Toyota Etios and Liva had Five Star Ratings. If they had done better job of marketing their safety and had interiors better than the Cab interiors that they had, Toyota would not be resellers of Maruti Suzuki products. Anyway, they knew what they were doing.

These safety ratings are doing good job of educating car buyers on safety of products that they are considering.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby arshyam » 13 Nov 2020 07:39

This page has all the crash test videos of Global NCAP for Indian cars. See for yourself - hopefully, you will stay away from Suzuki. #RunFarRunFast :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... RduH9iF79i



Here's the data from the source for the ~40 cars they tested: http://www.globalncap.org/results/

This slightly dated (does not have latest 2020 results) graphic is compiled from the results, see the number of desi manufacturers at the top. #Hatsoff

Image
Source: Car Wale

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Zynda » 13 Nov 2020 18:27

IIRC, Indian automobile OEMs (led by Maruti) were able to successfully lobby and decrease the Indian crash norms speed to 56 Kph from 64 Kph (followed by GNCAP I believe). It is quite possible that Indian models of entry level hatchbacks will just meet 56 Kph norms but fail 64 Kph Global or Latin NCAP tests. Still, I am yet to see Maruti tout crash norms on any of their entry level or B-level segment vehicles. Its always features or how much chrome bling. Only recently, they have been putting up bare min. of 2 airbags, ABS etc.

I do hope that GoI gives these OEMs 5 years to figure out a way to bring up the crash norms speed to 64 Kph at least and also make 4 airbags minimum. But them manf. have just started recovering from Covid sales slump & I am sure they'll create a lot of push back on any such change in norms.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Raveen » 13 Nov 2020 19:28

Mollick.R wrote:This link has the Arrogant Tin Ka Dubba Car Manufacturer's Crash Test Video

Maruti Suzuki S-Presso Hatchback Scores Zero Star in Global NCAP Safety Crash Test

https://www.news18.com/news/auto/maruti-suzuki-s-presso-hatchback-scores-zero-star-in-global-ncap-safety-crash-test-3069758.html


I remember there was one poster here who was vehemently defending Suzuki's horrendous death trap tin cans - wonder what they have to say about this

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Raveen » 13 Nov 2020 19:32

Zynda wrote:IIRC, Indian automobile OEMs (led by Maruti) were able to successfully lobby and decrease the Indian crash norms speed to 56 Kph from 64 Kph (followed by GNCAP I believe). It is quite possible that Indian models of entry level hatchbacks will just meet 56 Kph norms but fail 64 Kph Global or Latin NCAP tests.


Yes they were, and Super 8 is a great movie, but there is nothing super about those 8 km/h. Once a tin can death trap, always a failed tin can death trap.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Avinandan » 10 Jan 2021 22:45

Hi All,
I am looking to get some details about moped ( most probably from Kinetic ). There are hardly any photos of it in the internet.
However got hold of it in this movie clip.



Name and make would be most helpful.
Many thanks in advance

_/\_

morem
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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby morem » 10 Jan 2021 22:47

I believe it was called MOFA

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby sanjayc » 11 Jan 2021 00:01


Avinandan
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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Avinandan » 12 Jan 2021 01:07

morem wrote:I believe it was called MOFA

MOFA it is !!
Many thanks Sir.

Do you by chance know any other 25cc two wheeler created in the past ?

I am also looking for a picture of Kinetic Swift Moped.
It was a cousin of Kinetic Spark with the fuel tank being under the seat, wngine being the same.

Sadly no pictures of this in the internet or any information.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Zynda » 16 Jan 2021 14:49

Bowing down to Auto industry lobby, Nitin Gadkari told they have submitted a scrappage policy proposal for review and it might be announced during this year's budget. So any 4 wheelers or above & which is beyond 15 years since date of Manufacture needs to be scrapped. Already auto rickshaws and two wheelers are not included in the above policy. Quite likely the cab unions will lobby hard to get some sort of exemption. Ultimately, it will be private owners who will be forced to buy a newer vehicle. At least, I hope GoI will announce some sweet deals during exchange. Also, I hope those deals won't be for just electric vehicles because as of now, there aren't just viable electric vehicles below 7L in India not to mention infrastructure.

The main reason for the above is hard lobbying by the auto industry to provide incentives to spur domestic demand. Additional reasons as stated by Gadkar is to eliminate old & polluting vehicles (yeah, right) from the road. I know cases (mainly elderly couple) who own a very well maintained but seldom used hatchbacks and forcing them to buy a newer vehicle would be unfair when bad maintained public buses, lorries, auto rickshaws ply on the roads with impunity. Also in the current economic climate where job market outlook is not rosy for certain industries, taking on EMIs for a car would be additional burden...

Edit: I hope they give consumers some time and not be like "vehicle needs to be replaced within 6 months from enactment"...or they make it extremely expensive to renew RC for vehicles greater than 15 years.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby kit » 16 Jan 2021 18:29

Zynda wrote:Bowing down to Auto industry lobby, Nitin Gadkari told they have submitted a scrappage policy proposal for review and it might be announced during this year's budget. So any 4 wheelers or above & which is beyond 15 years since date of Manufacture needs to be scrapped. Already auto rickshaws and two wheelers are not included in the above policy. Quite likely the cab unions will lobby hard to get some sort of exemption. Ultimately, it will be private owners who will be forced to buy a newer vehicle. At least, I hope GoI will announce some sweet deals during exchange. Also, I hope those deals won't be for just electric vehicles because as of now, there aren't just viable electric vehicles below 7L in India not to mention infrastructure.

The main reason for the above is hard lobbying by the auto industry to provide incentives to spur domestic demand. Additional reasons as stated by Gadkar is to eliminate old & polluting vehicles (yeah, right) from the road. I know cases (mainly elderly couple) who own a very well maintained but seldom used hatchbacks and forcing them to buy a newer vehicle would be unfair when bad maintained public buses, lorries, auto rickshaws ply on the roads with impunity. Also in the current economic climate where job market outlook is not rosy for certain industries, taking on EMIs for a car would be additional burden...

Edit: I hope they give consumers some time and not be like "vehicle needs to be replaced within 6 months from enactment"...or they make it extremely expensive to renew RC for vehicles greater than 15 years.


The could subsidize the cost ! , a buy back of say 40 percent of the going value and giving incentives for electric vehicles on top of it.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Ambar » 16 Jan 2021 20:16

They won't subsidize it. These are harebrained ideas they copy from countries like Japan or Singapore and apply to a capital starved country like India. What is the point in destroying perfectly good cars just because it is 15 yrs old ? Ensure better standards of emission checks on older cars instead and maybe an increase in the cost of registration renewal but don't burden the middleclass by taking away their paid-off inexpensive transportation and forcing them to buy a new automobile when they are already struggling with job loses, food and fuel inflation, rising cost of education and healthcare. Gadkari's time will be better spent looking at the abysmal state of some of our national highways (NH 48 and NH 75 anyone?) instead of screwing over the middleclass again.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Zynda » 16 Jan 2021 21:28

Even in the US, the cash for clunkers program was optional...like Ambar mentioned, strengthen the enforcement mechanism of emission norms/checks on existing vehicles instead of forcing consumers to change a car just because it is 15+ yrs when it is perfectly meeting current GoI's emission norms. Also currently, electric vehicles do not offer the same VFM as an IC one especially in sub-10L category...

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Ambar » 16 Jan 2021 23:28

Our babudom isn't exactly known for making sensible, rational decisions. If they were to consult with industry experts (and not car manufacturers) they will realize that modern day automobiles last much much longer than cars 30 or 40 yrs ago. Imagine forcing someone to destroy their paid off Toyota Innova which has done <50k kms just because it is 15 yrs old . Also, after homes the only other material object that people usually emotionally bond with are cars, hence even in the some of the most environmentally conscious nordic countries they have laws around usage of old and vintage cars but they don't force people to scrap them.

I've made this point several times while discussing the farm bills, the govt. needs to follow the adage in ODI cricket "Keep the scoreboard ticking" instead of trying to hit sixers every over. They need to focus on simpler things first like fixing the existing roads, improving administrative efficiency and reducing corruption. To Gadkari i have a suggestion - fix the corrupt NHAI and our existing broken highways, in many states the highways connecting major ports and cities are unserviceable for 6 to 8 months in an year. Secondly, use common sense driven administrative process. Today if i have to get a FC (fitness certificate) for my car or bike, i am forced to drag it to the same RTO office where it was registered ! Imagine, if i have a Amravati RTO registered motorcycle and i have relocated to Pune for work, then at the time of FC renewal i need to take my motorcycle back to Amravati ! This is when all the RTOs have access to vaahan DB, it makes zero sense !

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby sanjaykumar » 19 Jan 2021 07:41

Japan it prohibitively expensive to keep the same car for more than a few years. I am sure the legislation benefits their automakers.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Vayutuvan » 20 Jan 2021 04:59

One of my Singaporean friends used to tell me the rule in Singapore. One cannot own a car that is older than five years. Cars were ~$50K. Every car owner had to send their 5 year old car for recycling and shell out $50K. That is $50K every five years.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Rishirishi » 20 Jan 2021 06:56

Vayutuvan wrote:One of my Singaporean friends used to tell me the rule in Singapore. One cannot own a car that is older than five years. Cars were ~$50K. Every car owner had to send their 5 year old car for recycling and shell out $50K. That is $50K every five years.


Part of their strategy is to make people use public transport. It saves a lot of road and parking space. Taxis are relatively affordable.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Vayutuvan » 22 Jan 2021 01:27

Rishirishi wrote:Part of their strategy is to make people use public transport. It saves a lot of road and parking space. Taxis are relatively affordable.


It is a high cost of living country. It is but natural that taxis are relatively affordable.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby nachiket » 26 Jan 2021 00:48

Singapore is a tiny country with an excellent public transport and road infrastructure and a high per capita income. Copying ideas from them to apply to the whole of India would be unadvisable. If specific city administrations in India with high population densities wish to copy ideas from them, they can try out at a local level and see if they are popular with their voters. These laws simply cannot be one-size fits all for a large and diverse country like India.

Most city and state governments in India invest nothing in providing basic amenities like public parking structures where they are needed. Every piece of land is sold for commercial development to maximize their profit and line their own pockets. Then if they come around and say "Look! Our vehicular congestion problems are the same as Singapore! Lets solve them by making it unaffordable for people to own cars in the city.", they might get kicked out on their backsides in the next elections.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Zynda » 26 Jan 2021 11:19

Government To Impose Green Tax On Old Vehicles; Proposal Approved By Union Minister Nitin Gadkari

The Union Minister for Road Transport and Highways, Nitin Gadkari, has approved a proposal for the government to levy a 'Green Tax' on old vehicles. The idea is to clean up the environment by phasing out unfit and pollution vehicles. The revenue collected through the green tax will be used to tackle pollution. The proposal in its current form will be sent to all states for consultation, before it is formally notified. The idea is to dissuade people from not using old vehicles, which cause more pollution and motivate them to buy new, less polluting vehicles. Cars which are over 15 years old and are owned by various government departments and PSUs will be de-registered and scrapped. The scrappage policy for government vehicles will come into effect from April 1, 2022.

Coming back to the details about the Green Tax, the proposal says that vehicles older than eight years could be charged green tax at the time of fitness certificate renewal. The amount could be between 10 per cent and 25 per cent of the road tax. In case of personal vehicles, green tax could be levied at the time of renewal of registration certificate after 15 years. The bad news is that the percentage of green tax could go up to 50 per cent of the road tax, when a vehicle is re-registered in highly polluted cities.

The proposal also suggests that the slab of tax will be different depending on fuel used and the type of vehicle as well. Vehicles like hybrids, electric vehicles and ones which use alternate fuels like CNG, Ethanol, LPG etc. are likely to be exempted. Vehicles used for farming purposes such as tractor, harvester, tiller etc. are likely to be exempted as well.

The government says that commercial vehicles, which comprise 5 per cent of the total vehicle fleet, contribute to about 65 to 70 per cent of total vehicle pollution. Similarly, vehicles which were manufactured before 2000, constitute of just 1 per cent of the total fleet but contribute to about 15 per cent of total vehicle pollution. Older vehicles pollute 10 to 25 times more than modern vehicles and that is something that the government wants to address once the Green Tax on old vehicles is implemented.


Edit: Although the above proposal is better than forcing consumers to replace their existing vehicle, it is still absurd to add one more tax. What is the purpose of Fitness Certificate & PUC if they want to penalize further. If anything strengthen or amend PUC+FC requirements so that vehicles meeting older emission norms have to pay extra. Anyways, vehicle owners are already paying absurd amount of taxes for infrastructure conditions which are quite pathetic. I would like to see City Corporations provide good roads so that the wear & tear on my vehicle is less along with conditions where I need not break so often to pass over a big pothole. Further, I think the green tax will be conveniently passed on to consumers by commercial operators. Just like GST on paper was supposed to make items cheaper but has not happened yet because business just did not bother to pass on any savings to consumers.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Aditya_V » 26 Jan 2021 13:50

This law is not required and unnecessary burden.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Ambar » 27 Jan 2021 00:33

Including registration fees we already pay upwards of 60% in taxes on cars today. The current FC requirements (having gone through it twice for my 2 vehicles within the last 4 yrs) is a joke ! I can drive to my local RTO having removed the brakes and they wouldn't know. The entire FC process is just another way to badger the motorist and extorting bribes. I went through a tout but i saw vehicles being rejected because of " excess scratches on paint" ! If i have to pay 50% road tax again after 15 yrs, i'll either not buy a new car or i'll buy the cheapest one know i'll have to junk it in few years anyways. Its a real bummer for those who own low mileage, well maintained vehicles which now will either have to be scrapped or pay a heavy tax to renew the registration in the name of "green tax". The ones who will suffer the most are those with commercial vehicles who have to go through this harebrained tax scheme once every 8 yrs !

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby niran » 21 Feb 2021 20:35

Budget session ended but not a whisper about approved by Minister sir old vehicle ban. :rotfl:


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