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Indian Autos Thread -2

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Singha » 18 Sep 2017 07:47

I think for India with its lack of space and arrangements to charge cars in apartments, a hybrid car with a small 800-1000cc engine and a modest battery pack that the engine tops up, with auto on-off at idling will go a long way to improve FE and reduce petrol burn ? some cos also have tech that can idle a few cylinders until needed.

think a cheap prius. this will get people used to EV until the move to pure EV later.

we need solutions that can
1) help long haul truck traffic reduce diesel burn
2) work in stop-go slow moving city traffic with high reliability and deal with heat, dust, mud and rain

these may not be the solutions on the table from bideshi merchants.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby disha » 18 Sep 2017 11:02

^^ niran sir., are you saying you are not going to buy your iPhonewa because its batteries last for 2.8 years instead of the advertised 3 years because of the fancy apps you run on your iPhonewa? Well ppl will run gizmos always on their "toys"., well bigger toys bigger gizmos. It is their battery! Why worry saar if they run out of Juice - have curry!

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby niran » 18 Sep 2017 11:18

disha wrote:^^ niran sir., are you saying you are not going to buy your iPhonewa because its batteries last for 2.8 years instead of the advertised 3 years because of the fancy apps you run on your iPhonewa? Well ppl will run gizmos always on their "toys"., well bigger toys bigger gizmos. It is their battery! Why worry saar if they run out of Juice - have curry!

arrey, no saar, i meant 25KWh battery won't be enough for for a 20km commute and weekend charging system. for better perspective i own a spiffy spanking new accord hybrid, batteries alone weigh 200 kgs the size of rear seat, fully charged, it runs max 5km when petrol engine kick in to take over the batteries without ac/radio lights or other fancy electric consuming gizmos, it is under 3 km with ac on. currently EV cars are good for shopping errands in cities onree, in rainy condition or in muddy condition where you need to rev the engines current batteries will drain out within 20 seconds as opposed to 20km.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby neerajb » 18 Sep 2017 13:22

Currently the only electric cars available in India are Mahindra e2o plus and Mahindra E Verito. Both have claimed ranges of more than 100 KM per charge. e2o comes in two versions with 110 and 140 Km per charge range. Tata is launching electric versions of Tiago and Nano, both with around 100 Km range. Maruti is going to introduce electric cars as well. Even if the electric cars provide 70% of the claimed range, 70-80 Km per day is sufficient for most of the people to commute between home and office in metros/tier 1 cities. In another 5-10 years, Indian car scene is going to be very interesting.

A lot is happening on Internal combustion engine side as well. Camless engines are being developed where valve actuation is controlled electronically and individually. Advantages are many. Activation/deactivation of individual cylinders in any manner, more power/torque/efficiency from precise control of valve, multi-fuel capability, 2/4 stroke in the same engine. Basically the engine becomes PROGRAMMABLE via software.

Also, following is a novel concept in hybrid cars. Two micro turbines (similar to ones powering RC models) charging the battery which then runs the electric motors. The turbines are capable of powering the four electric motors all by themselves as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_C-X75

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby niran » 18 Sep 2017 13:43

^^^ that is what am saying current bijjili car is in Ford model T level by the time it becomes year 2017 combustion engine level i will dead and long gone

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Prasad » 18 Sep 2017 13:51

Tesla model s 65kwh version has a stated range of 200 odd miles ~ 300km. If you do half that size, you can still do 150km = 1 week's office commute in most cities. Can't do outstation trips with such a range though but almost all 2nd cars can be replaced by this model easily. Same with first car small car crowd.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Prasad » 18 Sep 2017 13:52

Don't even need a hybrid version for that. Or add in a two cylinder engine for regen if you want.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby disha » 19 Sep 2017 01:11

niran wrote:arrey, no saar, i meant 25KWh battery won't be enough for for a 20km commute and weekend charging system. for better perspective i own a spiffy spanking new accord hybrid, batteries alone weigh 200 kgs the size of rear seat, fully charged, it runs max 5km when petrol engine kick in to take over the batteries without ac/radio lights or other fancy electric consuming gizmos, it is under 3 km with ac on.


Arrey Saar - you just proved my point. The battery capacity on Honda accord is 1.3 KwH and it is used on a drivetrain meant for gasoline engines. Like yoking a Kabini core to a bullock cart.

So your 1.3 KwH gives you 2.5 - 5 Km range while yoked to all the dead weight from the gas engine and the gearbox meant for a gas engine!

Also my calculations are for electric cars running on roads as smooth as Hemamalini's cheeks and not like Rabri Devi's and not tugging a bullock cart while having lantern's for head lamps!

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby disha » 19 Sep 2017 01:21

Prasad wrote:Tesla model s 65kwh version has a stated range of 200 odd miles ~ 300km. If you do half that size, you can still do 150km = 1 week's office commute in most cities. Can't do outstation trips with such a range though but almost all 2nd cars can be replaced by this model easily. Same with first car small car crowd.


Minor correction above - 60 KwH has a stated range of 218 miles or @ 350 Km. So a 30 KwH will give you 175 Km.

A 30 KwH fast super charge will take 10-15 mins. A 40 A/240 V will give you full charge in 3 hours. In fact a great model will be have every district HQ set up a 2 charging complexes near the highway (one for each way) with clean rest rooms and restaurants and FREE super charging for 1 hour and normal rates for next 2 hours with Solar panels and other alternatives to provide the energy.

Basically the district will end up making money on the charging services. And when customers realize that they are cutting their gas bills in half, they will change their habits rapidly.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby niran » 19 Sep 2017 06:54

disha wrote:Also my calculations are for electric cars running on roads as smooth as Hemamalini's cheeks and not like Rabri Devi's and not tugging a bullock cart while having lantern's for head lamps!

sigh! i wish every road trip were on Hema's cheek and not on Rabri's. :D :D

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby nash » 29 Sep 2017 22:44

http://www.livemint.com/Industry/k7gDLb ... o-EES.html

Tata Motors wins 10000 E- vehicles order. Will it be NANO I don't think so may be Indica

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby vipins » 30 Sep 2017 02:19

nash wrote:http://www.livemint.com/Industry/k7gDLb5gjR3OTfuuCivjGI/Tata-Motors-wins-bid-to-sell-10000-electric-vehicles-to-EES.html

Tata Motors wins 10000 E- vehicles order. Will it be NANO I don't think so may be Indica


Link
Our sister magazine Autocar Professional learns the electric vehicle will most likely be an electric Tigor sedan. Recently, Tata Motors revealed an EV variant of the Tiago, the hatchback iteration of the Tigor, in concept form. Using a liquid cooled 85kW electric motor, the hatch develops 200Nm of torque and Tata claims a range of around 100 km.

Tata Motors quoted the lowest price of Rs 10.16 lakh (exclusive of GST) in the competitive bidding. The vehicle will be provided to EESL for Rs 11.2 lakh (inclusive of GST) and with comprehensive five-year warranty. This is claimed to be 25 percent below the current retail price of a similar electric car with 3-year warranty.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby VishalJ » 30 Sep 2017 22:35

Chinese Automaker SAIC will be launching chinese automobiles in India with a MG badge.

https://www.rushlane.com/new-land-rover ... 08097.html

Checkout the british men from this "UK based automaker"

Image

Image

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby VishalJ » 03 Oct 2017 18:38


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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Rishirishi » 04 Oct 2017 04:23

disha wrote:
niran wrote:arrey, no saar, i meant 25KWh battery won't be enough for for a 20km commute and weekend charging system. for better perspective i own a spiffy spanking new accord hybrid, batteries alone weigh 200 kgs the size of rear seat, fully charged, it runs max 5km when petrol engine kick in to take over the batteries without ac/radio lights or other fancy electric consuming gizmos, it is under 3 km with ac on.


Arrey Saar - you just proved my point. The battery capacity on Honda accord is 1.3 KwH and it is used on a drivetrain meant for gasoline engines. Like yoking a Kabini core to a bullock cart.

So your 1.3 KwH gives you 2.5 - 5 Km range while yoked to all the dead weight from the gas engine and the gearbox meant for a gas engine!

Also my calculations are for electric cars running on roads as smooth as Hemamalini's cheeks and not like Rabri Devi's and not tugging a bullock cart while having lantern's for head lamps!



Take Nissan leaf (the size of Indica, but much more modern). a 22kwh battery manages between 100 and 150 km (depending on hills, drive and use of heater/AC). The battery used to cost about about 400 USD per Kwh. But it is peculated to have come down to 150Kwh. And further reduction to 100 dollar mark is expected. Now let us take 125dollars per Kwh. With a 50 Kwh battery one would get a decent 250Km range.

The cost of battery would be 6250 Dollars. or approx 3Lacs. For this price you get a car that can do 250Km for about RS 500. or about Rs 2 per km.

A petrol car does about 14km per liter (rs 70). that is about Rs 5 per km. Hence you save Rs 3 per km.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby disha » 04 Oct 2017 06:25

^^ Thanks for the calculations., a 50 KwH battery will give you 200 miles or 320 Km. Including A/C and up and down hills and breaking.

In a nutshell - the cost of running an electric car on a daily basis will be 1/3rd that of a petrol car. Minus the oil change.

It will get only better from here., since by 2030 the cost of the batteries will be $75 per KwH.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby negi » 08 Oct 2017 16:09

Electric cars are better in every way except "usability" :) ; enough charging points, availability of reliable power supply and then being able to drive through at least 6-12 inches of water without going kaput are must haves before anyone can even think about buying one . At most I see them as second/third vehicles in a household for grocery shopping. SV execs are buying them for most of them are sheep , with front parking rows in every tech giant reserved for green cars this movement is not organic but gaining traction as it is being incentivised aside from peer pressure.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby disha » 08 Oct 2017 23:01

Negi'Saar you are very very far away from truth. Even in India.

Growth in electricity consumption in India is leaps and bounds and India is able to generate that much as well. There are few local distribution spots., but that is more of exception than reality.

The batteries are hermetically sealed against water vapor. So even if the batteries are housed at the bottom of the vehicle a.la Tesla and you are swimming through bengaluru, kerala's open water channels a.la venice., all the batteries will end up doing will be discharging faster in the worst case. There are several videos on internet on people putting batteries in salt water.

Whichever way EV is incentivized., already @600k EVs are on the road. In fact by 2020., there will be 3 million EVs on the road. So it is not "gaining traction as it is being incentivized aside from peer pressure"., people are now opting for EVs.

And guess what., I have a "gas station" in my home. After my EV purchase., I do get a sticker shock whenever I pass through a gas station! EV does save me time and money.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby negi » 08 Oct 2017 23:41

^ Sir I live here and know the conditions and more importantly things on ground.

As for sealing battery it does not mean anything , system has to be water proof in totality selective water proofing of a componentb doesn't mean a thing.

Here as per Tesla forums itself they don't suggest you to drive in water

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ter.62053/

As per Tesla PR itself

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/t ... ated-45485

A SUV priced at that price point which cannot wade through water doesn't deserve to be called a SUV period ; a 12 Lakh INR Mahindra thar with a 30k INR schnorkel will wade through even 3-4 foot deep water , a 30 lakh fortuner will go anywhere whereas Teslas won't last a rainy day in Mumbai or Bangalore, you should google up for pictures of electronic city in Bangalore from last week , big tempo travelers were submerged in water here.

Now let us talk viability a 20k USD Toyota corrolla in the USA retails in India for 20 lakh INR that is straight 40% hike for a inferior grade model. G wagon goes for 2.15 crore , it retails at 140k USD in USA very similar to Model X's cost so you can tell what kind of costs will a Model X will be available to Indians , a 2 crore SUV without serious offroading capability.

Tesla makes gold plated products if and when they come to India they will be prohibitively expensive , now coming to my comment it was correct because other electric vehicle manufactures be it Lithium from Mahindra or such offerings don't have same level of water protection as Tesla , Tesla obviously has poured money into this problem but it is not enough not yet. No one in India who can buy just '1' car will buy an electric car and same is the case in the USA too , there will be a minority that will be an exception but that's true for any such trend.

Only when electric cars will match ICE powered cars in terms of usability and price they can be considered as part of the conversation, otherwise they will be same to the automobile world what solar and wind are to electric power generation i.e. complimentary to the system not 'reliable' enough to provide the base load.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby disha » 09 Oct 2017 00:11

Sir'ji you are talking one specific car maker based on comments from a forum. GM Bolt EV does drive through 30 cm of water. There are videos of that.

And I have driven in flooded roads. It does not fry electricals or the battery of the said road. Of course., driving through flooded waters is always dangerous ICE or no-ICE. 20 lakh or 2 crore.

Nobody is asking that Indians buy Tesla only. Tata/Mahindra and others can make EV for Indian conditions. I have to point out that by 2020., it will be the case in India. It is already the case in US.

*It is interesting that the moment EVs are mentioned., the talk is of Tesla. Tesla is at the higher range of EVs - with model 3 to model s and model x - it is competing with Beemers, Mercs and Lexus'es. EVs also have Bolts and Leafs and Fiat 500e's as well.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby disha » 09 Oct 2017 08:42

Here are videos of tesla's driving through water., negi saar your only argument against EVs compared to ICE vehicle (ability to drive through water) is non-starter!


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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby neerajb » 09 Oct 2017 09:38

Neither EV nor ICE are meant for water fording. Regarding normal mansoon operations, we have erikshas merrily operating 24X7/365 days without any problems. Also ICE vehicles fording capability is overrated (not talking about SUVs but normal city cars). Air intake is at grill level, 2-3 feet above ground, exhaust is even below that. ECU is slightly above air intake behind dash.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby disha » 09 Oct 2017 12:27

^^ Precisely.

Cars are meant to be used as cars & localized to conditions where it will be used., not as boats

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby jpremnath » 25 Oct 2017 11:55

schinnas wrote:
....Tiago and Tigor are on entirely new platform - differenrt engine and chasis and body design and interiors and look nothing like indica or indigos. It is reflecting in the sales and customer satisfaction. Tiago is now one of the top 10 best selling cars in India. One should give credit where its due. Tatas have totally re-invented their passenger car segment with Tiago, Tiger, Hexa and Nexon. All these new Tata cars now compete on features and quality and design with the best in their segments and compare very favorably. They have done great job in design and quality control in recent years. Not sure if its a positive side effect from purchase of Jaguar and its assets.

Their Nexon compact SUV is simply the best in its segment in terms of features, futuristic design and value for money.


I know..thats why i said there is a new energy in their later models..i hope it continues...The day Nexon was unveiled, I went and bought TaMo share..But they need to constantly update their models, otherwise they run the risk of being outrun by the competition..again..Globally every manufacturer give minor updates to the interior every year, a facelift by 3 years or so and a major upgrade to the whole car atleast in 5 or 6 years...


schinnas wrote:
..... it seems old perceptions die hard, going by some opinions on Tata cars in this forum.


Reputations are made on past performance and not on promises of future delivery....tatas had some serious issue with interior fit and finish and build quality and this reputation spread through word of mouth. And in India, old reputation can stick on you like forever..this is more quality control. Thats where the Japanese car makers and probably the koreans have shined. Plastics that wouldnt rattle after a year, A/Cs that wont conk off,...for normal customers, even these minor things are a big thing.... But like you said, they have improved the quality by bits and pieces..Hopefully this time we will see them on a renewed journey to success...we badly need a home grown auto major to root for...

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby jpremnath » 25 Oct 2017 12:05

Raveen wrote:Ironic you ask Tatas to use European designers and then cite the European designed Indica as an example of their failures. Maybe a fact check is required? India is famous for hearsay amplification, perfect example of that.


I never said Indica was a failure...I said Nano was a marketing failure. I mentioned Indica when i compared Hyundai and TaMo to highlight their santro and indica. Indica was a really good car then (1998), Good quality design and even better than the Hyundai in many ways...But what did Tatas did in the next 15 years?...They added a boot to the indica and called it Indigo...The Indica Vista (2008!) was on a new platform, but it looked to the average customer like a facelifted Indica..By then the rest of the car world had moved on in design language. Hyundai went to santro ZIng, accent, i10, i20, verna, elantra, sonata, ...they upped their game every year and there was a sea of difference between the two by the time Tiago and Tigor came...I only wanted to point out the lack of hunger for growth in TaMo...it feel sad that such a venerable auto brand became more of a taxi cab company.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby JayS » 25 Oct 2017 12:55

jpremnath wrote:
Raveen wrote:Ironic you ask Tatas to use European designers and then cite the European designed Indica as an example of their failures. Maybe a fact check is required? India is famous for hearsay amplification, perfect example of that.


I never said Indica was a failure...I said Nano was a marketing failure. I mentioned Indica when i compared Hyundai and TaMo to highlight their santro and indica. Indica was a really good car then (1998), Good quality design and even better than the Hyundai in many ways...But what did Tatas did in the next 15 years?...They added a boot to the indica and called it Indigo...The Indica Vista (2008!) was on a new platform, but it looked to the average customer like a facelifted Indica..By then the rest of the car world had moved on in design language. Hyundai went to santro ZIng, accent, i10, i20, verna, elantra, sonata, ...they upped their game every year and there was a sea of difference between the two by the time Tiago and Tigor came...I only wanted to point out the lack of hunger for growth in TaMo...it feel sad that such a venerable auto brand became more of a taxi cab company.


TML had a very idiotic "one car per segment" policy thus the lack of diversification. On top of it the only models available in the respective categories got no love from the company. They changed the policy circa 2012 IIRC. There was a significant change in upper management. We see the fruits now. The change started with Zest and Bolt and continues with Tiago, Tigor and Nexon and a new premium hatch-back that is soon expected. Hexa on the other hand making impression in SUV segment. The new cars are being designed using significant inputs from the European design houses that TML got from JLR acquisition. The turnover has been evident for quite a while now. If they keep the ante up, it has got very good future. TML was already at nadir and it had nowhere to go but up from there or die. Good that they chose to go up.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby hanumadu » 25 Oct 2017 13:03

Tata is only now getting to the fit and finish of more established brands including Hyundai. It will be at least a few more models before they fully catch up.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby JayS » 25 Oct 2017 14:10

I think Tatas can use one top end model to gain some brand value - a flagship model. Either sedan or SUV in 30lakh range may be. Below the JLR range.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby schinnas » 25 Oct 2017 21:47

Its still early days but Tata Nexon is a sales success already. It was launched towards end of Sept and within 10 days, claimed to #10 slot, competing against Maruthi Vitara Brezza and the like. No mean feat.

Tiago hasnt had any engine or quality complaints yet since it's launch indicating that Tatas are well on their turnover journey and are focusing on the right things. Its not easy to launch 4 models in 4 categories and all of them relatively well received. If they keep up, the future looks bright for them given their electric vehicle investments.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Sridhar K » 25 Oct 2017 22:47

Tatas design had started turning for good right from the days of vista-Manza Aria days and it has become better and better. However their manufacturing and QC especially for their vendor supplied components were a big let down. Though things are still improving, they are still some way before the cars are fully reliable

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby hanumadu » 26 Oct 2017 05:06

The total failure of Bolt and Zest is a disappointment. They were supposed to be the break out platforms for Tata.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby neerajb » 26 Oct 2017 23:30

If you ask me, the recurring issue with TATA is weight. There cars are heavy as compared to competition. For example Zest is 1135 Kgs, Dzire weighs 895 Kgs, Amaze 940 Kgs. This weight means low fuel economy though not by much. Zest Vs Dzire fuel economy differs by 1/2 Kmpl in city. But this weight also means planted ride at highway speeds, heavy vehicles carry momentum farther, so in no traffic conditions it gives good mileage comparable to lighter cars. Heavy v/s light is personal choice but the majority buyers in India give more weightage to fuel economy.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby jpremnath » 26 Oct 2017 23:44

Weight could also be dependent in the kind of steel used. Maruti cars are made with lighter cheaper sheets which is why they crumble like tin cans...Toyota yaris which is in the same class weigh more than 1000kg....But like i said it needs to be seen if the reason for heavier tata cars is this or something else..

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Raveen » 27 Oct 2017 03:03

neerajb wrote:If you ask me, the recurring issue with TATA is weight. There cars are heavy as compared to competition. For example Zest is 1135 Kgs, Dzire weighs 895 Kgs, Amaze 940 Kgs. This weight means low fuel economy though not by much. Zest Vs Dzire fuel economy differs by 1/2 Kmpl in city. But this weight also means planted ride at highway speeds, heavy vehicles carry momentum farther, so in no traffic conditions it gives good mileage comparable to lighter cars. Heavy v/s light is personal choice but the majority buyers in India give more weightage to fuel economy.



Ha, that's because Maruti is a tin can with thin steel.

No where on earth has Suzuki managed to sell as many cars as in India. I assure you they are not the torchbearers of quality or technology, not even in the Japanese context.
Compare TATA cars to VW, Toyota, or other automotive leaders and you'll realize the weight is comparable. I'd rather have planted ride, and safety, than a tin can. But hey, Hyundai and Suzuki did well here when they were nobodies globally (Suzuki is still a nobody, and Hyundai is now finally making a dent), it's not like the Indian auto buyer was well informed or had a plethora of choices back then, but somehow Suzuki continues to peddle is tin cans. Too much bhedh chaal.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby schinnas » 27 Oct 2017 03:50

hanumadu wrote:The total failure of Bolt and Zest is a disappointment. They were supposed to be the break out platforms for Tata.


No. They were based on vista platform. Only Tiago was the first car based on their new design language with 100% ground up design.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby neerajb » 27 Oct 2017 07:12

I agree. Recently went with a friend for test driving Baleno and Tigor. While holding the hood and doors, He remarked that they are much flimsier in Baleno and felt heavy in Tigor. But honestly if the chassis is strong, thin panels (to save weight) should not be a problem.

Even the newer nexon is based on Vista platform.

hanumadu
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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby hanumadu » 27 Oct 2017 08:17

schinnas wrote:
hanumadu wrote:The total failure of Bolt and Zest is a disappointment. They were supposed to be the break out platforms for Tata.


No. They were based on vista platform. Only Tiago was the first car based on their new design language with 100% ground up design.


Not Vista platform but India platform. Even Tiago is made on the Indica platform.

When I said platform, I did not mean it in the way you understood. I meant that its the first hatch back from Tata that comes close to Maruti Dezire and Hyundai i10 in build quality and features and beats them in the looks.

Aditya_V
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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Aditya_V » 27 Oct 2017 10:30

Truth is looking at the way Indians love the Ciaz, Baleno and New Dzire, only VFM pricing , Discounts, delivery on 5 star hotel and Mine bigger than Higher milage from MID which shows 30% greater milage than actuals is more important than safety and reality.

JayS
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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby JayS » 27 Oct 2017 11:49

Aditya_V wrote:Truth is looking at the way Indians love the Ciaz, Baleno and New Dzire, only VFM pricing , Discounts, delivery on 5 star hotel and Mine bigger than Higher milage from MID which shows 30% greater milage than actuals is more important than safety and reality.


Two big factors I observed why Maruti is so successful are - one the impression on people that it gives best after sales service - I see many people blindly go for Maruti based on this single feeling. Second - sweet spot pricing by Maruti. They even sell cars initially at a loss, but always try to maintain the sweet spot for pricing.

I have heard from folks how cheap Baleno feels in terms of panel quality. But still they prefer it. In India, Car is still a social status symbol, much more than a tool to simply satisfy need of transport. Big reason behind failure of Nano was this, despite it being engineering marvel. TML marketing failed to grasp this aspect. Brand value matters, length matters, hype matters, Bluetooth matters more than engine refinement, economy matters more than safety.

TKiran
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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby TKiran » 27 Oct 2017 12:23

^^^^while not trying to side with Maruti Suzuki, your observation has been totally wrong, as I was very closely associated with automotive services business, the QUALITY (I don't want to give a lecture on quality now, it's complete quality) is the reason for Maruti Suzuki success.

All the other automobiles are way inferior to Maruti Suzuki when it comes to quality. All the other factors you mentioned are incidental. Anyone who owned Maruti Suzuki would not like even to try something else, and when they get into pocket pinching service issues with other brands, I have personally witnessed taking huge losses in selling the car and coming back to Maruti Suzuki.

The only other brand that comes close to Maruti Suzuki is Toyota (still I see Maruti Suzuki's commitment to quality is atleast twice that of Toyota)


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