Indian Autos Thread -2

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby nachiket » 18 Aug 2015 08:36

kenop wrote:One of the posts mentioned a cylinder head replacement reaching ~2L. Was mentioned that it had to done on a < 1y old car.

Why wasn't it covered under the warranty?

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby kenop » 18 Aug 2015 10:23

nachiket wrote:Why wasn't it covered under the warranty?

Makes sense. I missed that, if it was mentioned. Read many comments and may have mixed up.
One more point of failure that was mentioned for Vento was injectors that need close to 1L for replacement (full set). The post mentioned that the service station guys blamed the fuel composition. The owner read around and found that to be within limits (referred to sulphur content IIRC). He was consistent with the petrol station for filling up and hence curious to understand the issue.
On injectors, my dehati instinct feels that level of electronic intelligence and related sophistication has lead to newer categories of defects being spotted. Besides, usual causes like dust particles that may find entry into the system.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Vipul » 19 Aug 2015 02:38

How India became a global player in auto parts.

A global component sourcing team from Daimler, the maker of Mercedes Benz cars, is permanently stationed in Pune. The team reports to the global headquarters in Stuttgart and not to the management of the Indian unit of the company. "This team," says Mercedes Benz India MD & CEO Eberhard Kern, "constantly screens Indian suppliers to source components. There are some success stories such as Motherson Sumi. We will see more such stories."

Motherson Sumi's relationship with Mercedes Benz started in the mid '90s when it started supplying dashboard and wiring harness to it in India. Early this year, it won a global contract worth over Rs 15,000 crore to supply a range of components for future vehicles of Mercedes Benz from 2018. Motherson Sumi will set up two manufacturing units in the US and Hungary to meet the new order as well as expand its plants in Germany. "The trust that has been built over the years translated into the news orders," says Motherson Sumi COO Pankaj Mital.

The validation of the component industry's evolution came recently when luxury car makers Mercedes Benz, BMW and Audi said they have scaled up sharply their purchase of components from local vendors, which has helped them reduce prices significantly in India, and Volvo announced that it will export buses built fully in India to Europe.

Exports of automobiles almost doubled from 1.8 million in 2009-10 to 3.57 million in 2014-15, according to the Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers. Since an automobile is the sum of its parts, this shows that the quality of Indian components is now acceptable in world markets.

Component exports have grown from $4.2 billion in 2009-10 to $11.2 billion in 2014-15, according to Automotive Component Manufacturers' Association of India, which translates into compounded annual growth rate, or CAGR, of 29 per cent. During the same period, imports of components have reported CAGR of 11 per cent, which has narrowed the gap between imports and exports: from $3.8 billion in 2009-10 to $2.38 billion in 2014-15.

"The real success of the component industry is the drastic improvement in quality levels over the years. When Toyota came to India in 1999, the benchmark of quality measured by defective parts per million was 900. It has dropped to just eight now. That alone gives an idea of the improvement," says Toyota Kirloskar Vice-chairman and Wholetime Director Shekar Viswanathan.

Toyota today not only procures components for its operations in India but also for use in its overseas plants. "It is not very big but can only get bigger. Logistics is a challenge for some of the components," Viswanathan adds.

For Motherson Sumi, it all started in the early '80s when it began supplying connectors to Maruti Suzuki (then Maruti Udyog) which was gearing up to roll out the iconic Maruti 800. In fact, there were several others component makers who came up with Maruti Suzuki: JBM Group, Amtek Group and Sona Group. They imbibed Japanese technology and work culture quickly.

Motherson's Mital says the company found a very good teacher in its joint venture partner, Sumitomo Wiring, since the beginning. "We started with global quality benchmarks and quickly moved towards the global standards. We cater to the customer's need right from the design to the supply of the whole module."

In the initial years, the Indian component makers required a high degree of handholding, most of which came from Maruti Suzuki. In the 1990s, when car makers from other countries came to India they found a well-established component industry that could meet their demands. With time, the improvement in quality and exposure to global best practices of the industry allowed a number of these component makers to venture outside India. For a number of them, the overseas revenue is now as big as domestic sales, if not bigger.

"The industry is enriched by exposure to global processes and work culture due to business with top manufacturers in Japan and Europe. Today, export is our edge. We are capable of exporting precision engineering and machine components," Automotive Component Manufacturers Association Director General Vinnie Mehta says.

JBM Group Executive Director Nishant Arya says the biggest advantage that the Indian component industry has is a large domestic market which continues to expand. The group entered the industry in 1987 with Maruti Suzuki as its customer. It found new clients in Hyundai, Honda and Ford, all of which entered India in the '90s. Today, Maruti Suzuki accounts for less than one-fifth of the group's $1.35 billion annual revenue.

"The new entrants wanted us to meet international standards and we adopted higher quality certification. People were sent abroad for training. Today, we export components to Honda, Nissan and Ford for global operations and they also happen to be our customers in India," Arya adds.

In the extremely competitive global market, manufacturers need to deliver on quality, cost as well as delivery. In addition, the components need to meet the regulations in different countries. Shortening product cycles and regular launches keep component makers on their toes. This is the challenge.

Indian auto component manufacturers, over the years, have developed strong manufacturing capabilities that have helped them in keeping costs low and quality under control.

There is, however, a weak link in the chain of component industry: the Tier II and III players who face challenges in quality, manpower and so on. "Technology and scale is a challenge for Tier II players as we gear up for mass production. Tier I suppliers will be able to adopt technology and make investments to scale up. The challenge will be to bring Tier II to those levels of quality by making them invest," says Sona Koyo Engineering Chairman & MD Sunjay Kapur.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby negi » 19 Aug 2015 22:05

Chap met with an accident in his E class, cracked the bumper, bent the hood and radiator went kaput.
Look at the cost of parts

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-ca ... ost3781437

Front bumper cover costs over 52k INR. :shock: :mrgreen:
Most of the parts read plastic and yet things like xyz air hose is above 20k INR.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Chandragupta » 23 Aug 2015 12:25

VW may be expensive to maintain but let me tell you that it is a rock solid vehicle. I have the 2015 Jetta Diesel and old Honda Civic feels like an old tin can in comparison. Even Accord doesn't feel that heavy on the road. I feel in control even at speeds in excess of 120 kmph where a Honda high end sedan will start shaking like anything. With the roads we have and with the safety records of our roads & the sheer number of sootiyas on road driving high end vehicles/SUV, anything you pay to be safe on the road is less.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby chetak » 23 Aug 2015 14:11

Chandragupta wrote:VW may be expensive to maintain but let me tell you that it is a rock solid vehicle. I have the 2015 Jetta Diesel and old Honda Civic feels like an old tin can in comparison. Even Accord doesn't feel that heavy on the road. I feel in control even at speeds in excess of 120 kmph where a Honda high end sedan will start shaking like anything. With the roads we have and with the safety records of our roads & the sheer number of sootiyas on road driving high end vehicles/SUV, anything you pay to be safe on the road is less.


These sensor controlled vehicles do not allow you to do any bandaid type of repairs to get you to the nearest service center. You need company roadside assistance and more often than not, a tow truck. Pretty tough to get such assistance on most Indian highways in the boondocks.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby asgkhan » 24 Aug 2015 10:52

Got my car serviced as I am due for a long road trip next month. The clutch was replaced. Suspension was checked. complete lookover was given for the vehicle.

I am super impressed with Pratham. The SA whom i know quite well, supervised the entire servicing.

Some observations, the floor was sparkling clean, everything is automated, yet to see any mechanics struggling with spanners. All the SAs had tablets which could pull up the service history, the reception was clean, had wifi and there was an attendant providing tea coffee every 30 mins.

I was allowed on the floor to watch the service, legs are aching as I was standing for the entire duration of 10 hours.

I doubt any other brands can come close to what Maruti provides as an after sales experience.

No wonder they are always first in customer's mind when first car purchase has to be done.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Singha » 24 Aug 2015 11:01

a munna i know has booked a 73L bmw x5 it seems.

hope he never meets with any small accident :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby niran » 24 Aug 2015 11:16

Chandragupta wrote:VW may be expensive to maintain but let me tell you that it is a rock solid vehicle.

of course it will be as solidly immovable as a solid rock when that engine refuses to start in the morning and more rock solid feeling in your gut when you realize you will have to call the shop and it will take at least a day just to know the cause while do whatever you do you will late for that crucial presentation. VW, all Korean, Fiat, Peaugeat( hope the spelling correct), Ford are all the worst maintenance wise

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Chandragupta » 24 Aug 2015 17:47

niran wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:VW may be expensive to maintain but let me tell you that it is a rock solid vehicle.

of course it will be as solidly immovable as a solid rock when that engine refuses to start in the morning and more rock solid feeling in your gut when you realize you will have to call the shop and it will take at least a day just to know the cause while do whatever you do you will late for that crucial presentation. VW, all Korean, Fiat, Peaugeat( hope the spelling correct), Ford are all the worst maintenance wise


:rotfl: Shubh shubh bolo Saar.

I know European brands have not distinguished themselves in maintenance but they're improving. The worst is Skoda btw.

But I'd rather be in a VW car instead of Honda or Toyota tin cans or Maruti in case of a mishap on Indian roads. Even Tata cars are heavier than these. Mahindra SUVs are also of good build quality.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby chetak » 24 Aug 2015 18:20

Chandragupta wrote:
niran wrote:
{quote="Chandragupta"}VW may be expensive to maintain but let me tell you that it is a rock solid vehicle.{/quote}

of course it will be as solidly immovable as a solid rock when that engine refuses to start in the morning and more rock solid feeling in your gut when you realize you will have to call the shop and it will take at least a day just to know the cause while do whatever you do you will late for that crucial presentation. VW, all Korean, Fiat, Peaugeat( hope the spelling correct), Ford are all the worst maintenance wise


:rotfl: Shubh shubh bolo Saar.

I know European brands have not distinguished themselves in maintenance but they're improving. The worst is Skoda btw.

And I'd rather be in a VW car instead of Honda or Toyota tin cans or Maruti in case of a mishap on Indian roads.


Thumb rule in India, all European cars are expensive to service and maintain and it's a ripoff. Japanese cars are more reasonable in the service dept, economical to maintain and run. The decades older, non electronic Mercs and BMWs still run like a dream.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby nachiket » 24 Aug 2015 22:50

Chandragupta wrote:VW may be expensive to maintain but let me tell you that it is a rock solid vehicle. I have the 2015 Jetta Diesel and old Honda Civic feels like an old tin can in comparison. Even Accord doesn't feel that heavy on the road. I feel in control even at speeds in excess of 120 kmph where a Honda high end sedan will start shaking like anything. With the roads we have and with the safety records of our roads & the sheer number of sootiyas on road driving high end vehicles/SUV, anything you pay to be safe on the road is less.

The "heaviness/stability" on the road has a lot to do with the suspension setup and may not be directly correlated with weight alone. The stiffer tightly damped suspension gives you that feeling of safety and stability on the highway because it prevents the vehicle from moving around too much when the pavement isn't smooth. Wider tires with short sidewalls also help. But it may also lead to a rough or bumpy ride at slow speeds on rough roads.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Raveen » 24 Aug 2015 23:07

Not to mention the same Accord here can do more than a 120 mph without 'shaking wildly'

Also, in other breaking news, Skoda = VW, try not to bash one of them while praising the other in the same post.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Gus » 24 Aug 2015 23:12

I feel in control even at speeds in excess of 120 kmph

===

Don't.

you may think you are this amazing driver....

and everybody who has ever met with an accident were thinking they were amazing drivers too

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Chandragupta » 25 Aug 2015 05:14

Raveen wrote:Not to mention the same Accord here can do more than a 120 mph without 'shaking wildly'

Also, in other breaking news, Skoda = VW, try not to bash one of them while praising the other in the same post.


Yes Skoda is VW but different entities. Skoda is absolute worst when it comes to service, too many horror stories floating around. Check TBHP.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Raja Bose » 25 Aug 2015 06:54

Beemer seems to have totally lost it when it comes to understanding why customers used to love their sedans. One of our technicians just bought a spanking new 5 series beemer and was in tears by the time she got home coz the car was blaring a million warnings and alarms at her and there was no obvious way to turn them off and to top it all she couldn't figure out how to put the darn thing in park once she got home. Long story short she returned the car the next day and went and got a Hyundai Genesis instead.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby niran » 25 Aug 2015 07:21

chetak wrote: :rotfl: Shubh shubh bolo Saar.

I know European brands have not distinguished themselves in maintenance but they're improving. The worst is Skoda btw.

And I'd rather be in a VW car instead of Honda or Toyota tin cans or Maruti in case of a mishap on Indian roads.

Thumb rule in India, all European cars are expensive to service and maintain and it's a ripoff. Japanese cars are more reasonable in the service dept, economical to maintain and run. The decades older, non electronic Mercs and BMWs still run like a dream.

Mercs and Beeyums are different class sir, can't compare them saar like Apple and Oranges and don't even mention Skoda saar, methinks have mentioned somewhere me have a Mallu lunch buddy, against my advice he went and bought a Skoda for his SHQ so that she can drop and pick the keeds at school (school van cost 30,000 in real monay/month) all his bania giri went for a kite flying session within 7 months(ain't typo) after purchase you can imagine the scene when within 7 months the repair bill is half the price of the car and red Mirchi on wounds the sale price is half of down payment.

Honda is good they have equal and or better crumple zone in comparison to Merc or Beeyums their ballons are good and is yet to hear their ABS failing on their drivers. HRV is real good in bania department and speed department a fortnight ago over here was a National holiday so took a HRV to set her pace 3 days later got a letter with a foto declaring me was doing 195 kmph with a demand to payup 1000 real monay or else. :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Theo_Fidel » 25 Aug 2015 07:43

Raja Bose wrote:Beemer seems to have totally lost it when it comes to understanding why customers used to love their sedans. One of our technicians just bought a spanking new 5 series beemer and was in tears by the time she got home coz the car was blaring a million warnings and alarms at her and there was no obvious way to turn them off and to top it all she couldn't figure out how to put the darn thing in park once she got home. Long story short she returned the car the next day and went and got a Hyundai Genesis instead.


I don't know. Many of the alarms seem to do with driver protection. My wife kept setting off alarms in the beginning because she used to back out and drive a little more aggressively. But now after 6 months she drives it with much more consideration and care and it has been working flawlessly, not a single alarm, except when she tried to back into our mailbox for the 1,030,567th time. :) Keep fingers crossed...

niran wrote: 195 kmph with a demand to payup 1000 real monay or else. :mrgreen:


Holy cowabunga! In my state 50 miles over the speed limit is an automatic l6 moth license suspension. You are getting of very lucky.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Singha » 25 Aug 2015 07:48

volume is crucial to protection, given enough space, any APDS round / median kamandu / suicidal biker can be defeated with spaced armour. bigger cars of any brand have enough volume for good crumple zones and their wider wheelbase makes it more difficult for side impacts to tip them over. being heavier also helps is taking a solid hit and still retaining posture.

bigger cars invariable have wider, heavier and more solid doors.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby vera_k » 20 Sep 2015 22:13

VW's Emissions Cheating Found by Curious Clean-Air Group

Discrepancies in the European tests on the diesel models of the VW Passat, the VW Jetta and the BMW X5 last year gave Peter Mock an idea.


The U.S. has higher emissions standards than the rest of the world and a history of enforcing them, so Mock and his American counterpart, John German, were sure the U.S. versions of the vehicles would pass the emissions tests


Since the cars had trouble meeting the somewhat lax European emissions standards, and since India has been adopting the European standards, these cars are likely polluting in India as well.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby negi » 21 Sep 2015 23:40

Finally lord Ganesha has given all of us VW customers something to cheer about , the mofos will get slapped with a penalty of about 18 billion USD in recalls alone. The stock has already nose dived and today the CEO of the German co has official issued a statement to halt all sales . I have personally written to ARAI to take up VW emissions issue in India and also notified them that a parallel complaint has been registered with the PMO too. So looks like Germans were not only coming short on reliability against the Japanese but were also cheating on emissions by gaming the emissions tests . Goes to show how much superior diesel engine on a Innova and Fortuner is when compared to the junk that powers Jetta, Passat and even the Audi A3.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Singha » 22 Sep 2015 07:13

MUL, toyota, honda, ford and hyundai are probably safer bets in india....the chi chi arrogance is not there as everyone with any wealth has got themselves mercs, bmws and audis now. so these dealers only attract the middle class who are already stretched for budget. even then the dealer service costs are fairly high albeit not at german car levels.

I recently got my honda's rear door tinkered and painted at a fairly changu mangu workshop on HSR layout for around 50% of what the dealer quoted. I would not say the tinkering was mirror perfect but passes all except the close scrutiny from an angle with light reflecting off it.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby negi » 22 Sep 2015 08:51

^ The quote from VW whitefield for painting my bumper was INR 5200 (this is just half bumper ) my Diro got his City bumper painted completely from Whitefield Honda for INR 8k.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Aditya_V » 22 Sep 2015 09:39

negi wrote:Finally lord Ganesha has given all of us VW customers something to cheer about , the mofos will get slapped with a penalty of about 18 billion USD in recalls alone. The stock has already nose dived and today the CEO of the German co has official issued a statement to halt all sales . I have personally written to ARAI to take up VW emissions issue in India and also notified them that a parallel complaint has been registered with the PMO too. So looks like Germans were not only coming short on reliability against the Japanese but were also cheating on emissions by gaming the emissions tests . Goes to show how much superior diesel engine on a Innova and Fortuner is when compared to the junk that powers Jetta, Passat and even the Audi A3.


I dont these 2.5 l and 3.5 liter Diesels are sold in US. They wont meet emission norms there, they are reliable but polluters allt he same. Hell even Ford or Chevrolet does not sell any of the smaller Diesels in US.

The only passengers in US who Diesels are what they call "Trucks" with greater 5 Liter displacements.

Any idea why Diesels dont sell in China and USA. what are the domestic laws against it. Majority of the cars sold in these 2 markets are pretty big, one would this for 2-3.5 liter displacements, Diesels would give muh better fuel efficiency as well as good Torque at Highway speeds and would dominate these 2 markets.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby negi » 22 Sep 2015 09:52

^ Chipanda's regulations are more about usage than emissions they too like India have regulations which discourage use of diesel engines for private cars they are big oil importers and want to keep diesel for industrial use and commercial vehicles only .

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby nachiket » 22 Sep 2015 09:57

The only reason Diesel became so popular in India is because of the huge gap in Diesel and petrol prices and to a lesser extent, the difference in mileage. The price difference is not that great in the US (don't know about China) and the consumers there are less concerned about the extra mileage and more concerned about having smooth engines with good acceleration and a lot of raw power. No wonder Petrol is more popular there.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby negi » 22 Sep 2015 10:09

^ Even bigger issue is fuel quality , if you are driving any of the German luxury cars powered by petrol engines then you need to fill them with high octane petrol which is still not readily available in India (only Shell has it , even HP power is not true premium petrol) , however diesel mills are far more tolerant of fuel quality so almost 99% of BMW3s or 5s I see in Bangalore are all d versions .

Again more than the octane rating it is just about the quality of petrol, last year a Pune based Doctor's A6 stalled after tanking up from some Indian oil petrol bunk according to Audi it was because of poor quality petrol. :mrgreen: :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Aditya_V » 22 Sep 2015 14:02

nachiket wrote:The only reason Diesel became so popular in India is because of the huge gap in Diesel and petrol prices and to a lesser extent, the difference in mileage. The price difference is not that great in the US (don't know about China) and the consumers there are less concerned about the extra mileage and more concerned about having smooth engines with good acceleration and a lot of raw power. No wonder Petrol is more popular there.


The High Torque of Turbo Diesel lower down the rev range makes them quite tough in 80-120 kph to overtake for say an N.A former Petrol Accent or dads 3rd Gen Petrol Honda City. Apart from just milage, this low end torque which makes Diesel cars good for overtaking in 80-120 kph range makes them very popular, similar sized Petrol cars are under powered unless you keep working the gears. Hell even in the ecoboost if there anther vehicle blocking my lane, I would need to use the right gear to over I20 crdi on Highways.

Seems for some reason, Massa has heavily discouraged use of Diesels by much tougher emission standards. I think India should go this way too in a few years. Taxi guys can use the Urea fixes, while dont see private car owners especially those buying Mercs, AUdis and BMW's getting the Diesel subsidy.

Or keep Diesels LMV's top speed to be compulsorily fixed at 100-110kph with no over ride, that will move a lot of people who can afford Petrols to be way from Diesel's and gettign Diesel subsidy(a.ka lower taxation rates).

negi wrote:
Again more than the octane rating it is just about the quality of petrol, last year a Pune based Doctor's A6 stalled after tanking up from some Indian oil petrol bunk according to Audi it was because of poor quality petrol. :mrgreen: :rotfl:


Highly likely, with the unwritten costs Petrol Bunk owners have to go through plus with the Oil Mafia having its roots here.

If you do a study every time you fill petrol, Petrol from core areas top tier cities you get maximum difference with the car MID and overall Milage indicated is also lesser.

This indicates that the Petrol is a) adulterated and b) you get less fuel for the Liter, based on car MID in some Bunks it is 98%, some bunks it is only 94%, Bunk fills 50-60 Ml less.

In Bunks outside cities, since real estate prices are lower and mostly only 2 wheelers known to the Petrol Bunk owner fill Petrol, Petrol quality and quantity seems better, dont know the impact of running BS-III petrol in BSIV vehicle.

Diesel I think is adulterated and some pilferage on volume happens all over the country. Especially, illiterate non owner Truck and Bus drivers don't fight over a few liters when filling 150-200 Liters.

I think also Chidambaram also created a huge problem by allowing Diesels upto 1500 CC as small car while keeping Petrols restricted to 1200CC. This allowed a lot of powerful Diesels to be considered as small cars.

I think NDA should consider making even 1500CC Petrols under 4M to be small car definition. That itself will be see a lot of shift to Petrol models which are considered under powered in many Hatchbacks due to low end torque.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Singha » 22 Sep 2015 17:23

i have taken to filling up petrol only in a shell near my house.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby chetak » 22 Sep 2015 18:08

Singha wrote:i have taken to filling up petrol only in a shell near my house.


The only advantage of filling your tank at shell is that the fuel is clean and the quantity is right. This usually translates to extra mileage often mistaken for superior quality in shell fuels.

Nothing else. Shell's sale of "octane" fuel is too small a quantity to import. they simply sell what ever "octane" fuel is made in country but without mixing anything in it.

They source their fuels locally but ensure that their GPS fitted tankers are escorted and tracked all through to ensure that there is no adulteration.

Various "manufacturers" of engine oils fill their oil in each others branded cans when spare capacity is available which is fairly often.

A local non company owned PSU outlet near my house once rooked me for eight liters short in a purchase of forty liters. when confronted, the blighters owned up but said that it was a "counting error" as the meter had not been zeroed. This had happened to me a few times already at the same outlet and I was wary and so was able to confront them. They finally "gave" me 15 litres "free" which I later put into my SHQ's car and never went back there again. After this incident, for many years I traveled 10-15 Kms just to fuel up at a Shell outlet.

Luckily, Shell has now opened up an outlet near my house. It's really, really crowded from the time it opens, till the time it shuts.

At any shell outlet, if you do not look at the meter before start of the fueling, the attendant will forcefully draw your attention to the "zero".

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Singha » 22 Sep 2015 18:45

That's precisely why I go to shell. Honesty. It's also nearest to my house
They also give a free windshield clean and air pump is always manned

Plus the station is kept uber clean not grimy oil stained

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby vera_k » 22 Sep 2015 19:14

Aditya_V wrote:Any idea why Diesels dont sell in China and USA. what are the domestic laws against it.


No idea about China. But research indicated diesel exhaust was a probable carcinogen in the 80s. It is now classified as a carcinogen by the WHO. Emissions regulations have been tightened as a result.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby negi » 22 Sep 2015 21:07

Shell is andhon mein kana raja (one eyed amongst the blind) I too go by Shell>HP>Bharat Petroleum>Indian oil the last two shops are 99.99% owned by INC boot lickers. My colleague's ford fiesta petrol was recently toped with diesel by one of the Indian Oil bunk idiots on NH4 , he had to call roadside assistance and flush the engine before he could even move his car.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Gus » 22 Sep 2015 21:25

we buy diesel because of subsidy. as subsidy is gradually stopped, diesels will also gradually come down as petrol and diesel prices come near.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Aditya_V » 22 Sep 2015 21:42

But Diesel prices will always be cheaper since Farmers genders, tractors, trucks, Buses, Goods transport vehicles run on them along with commercial cabs. Bringing parity here is political sucide.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Picklu » 25 Sep 2015 23:38

Latest joke in town : VW puts 10 times more pollutant than autos and hence the tagline "Das Auto".....

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby negi » 26 Sep 2015 00:01

Gus wrote:we buy diesel because of subsidy. as subsidy is gradually stopped, diesels will also gradually come down as petrol and diesel prices come near.

You forget one important fact Kerosene which is highly subsidized for BPL folks gets routed by the kerosene mafia to petrol bunk owners who mix a lot of kerosene in diesel to bring the actual cost down. One more thing is even if Diesel's cost becomes equal to petrol it gives much better mileage between 15-20 km/l as against 8-12 km/l for petrol vehicles .

The only way to control pollution from private vehicles is to put in regulations which make it extremely difficult to buy a diesel powered car for personal use current difference between petrol and diesel variant is 1 lakh which is not a big deterrent for cars north of 5 lakhs , I think India like China and US should put in regulations to curb the number of personal diesel powered vehicles.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby negi » 26 Sep 2015 10:30

^ Diesel is a much heavier fuel it has more carbon atoms per molecule of diesel moreover diesel fuel contains contaminants like sulphur which after combustion generate by products like sulphur dioxide also diesel engine due to their combustion cycle (higher compression and temperature (as flash point is higher) using air rather than fuel air mixture) generate a lot more NOx as against petrol engines.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Raja Bose » 26 Sep 2015 10:47

Singha wrote:That's precisely why I go to shell. Honesty. It's also nearest to my house
They also give a free windshield clean and air pump is always manned

Plus the station is kept uber clean not grimy oil stained


Gujju owned Shell stations here are notorious for milawat in petrol. :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Autos Thread -2

Postby Philip » 28 Sep 2015 18:04

After the great VW scandal,now Audi too has admitted that 2.1M of its vehicles "cheated" on emissions. This is as great a scandal as the western banking scandal that smashed world economies.The auto scandal unfoldoing may have a similar impact upon the global economy.VW shares have lost over 30% of value,affecting pension funds,etc. by investors. The entire gamut of diesel models under the VW group banner may have bogus emission stds.,which will lead to even greater fines,etc. Peugoet's entire worth is estimated at just $10B,the $17B initial fine for VW indicates the enormity of the scandal and the reeprcussions to follow.

The GOI must immediately launch an investigation whether we too were cheated by VW,Audi,etc.India cannot be the dumping ground for flawed Western tech.,drugs,foods,etc.The next expose will be the so-called "mileage" tests,whether they too were fixed. The greatetst loser is that of Germany,reeling from the tsunami of refugees,now reeling from its v.badly tarnished reputation,now a "cheat" nation.However,remember that some years ago,German/Austrian white wines were found to have been adulterated with engine coolant! So German "auto" scandals have a past history.


The 1985 diethylene glycol wine scandal was an incident in which several Austrian wineries illegally adulterated their wines using the toxic substance diethylene glycol (a primary ingredient in some brands of antifreeze) to make the wines appear sweeter and more full-bodied in the style of late harvest wines.[1] Many of these Austrian wines were exported to Germany, some of them in bulk to be bottled at large-scale German bottling facilities. At these facilities, some Austrian wines were illegally blended into German wines by the importers, resulting in diethylene glycol ending up in some bulk-bottled German wines as well.[2]

The scandal was uncovered by German wine laboratories performing quality controls on wines sold in Germany, and immediately made headlines around the world. The affected wines were immediately withdrawn from the market. A number of people involved in the scandal were sentenced to prison or heavy fines in Austria and Germany.

The short-term effect of the scandal was a complete collapse of Austrian wine exports and a total loss of reputation of the entire Austrian wine industry, with significant adverse effects on the reputation of German wines as well. The long-term effect was that the Austrian wine industry focused their production on other wine types than previously, primarily dry white wines instead of sweet wines, and increasingly targeted a higher market segment, but it took the Austrian wine industry over a decade to recover. Much stricter wine laws were also enacted by Austria.


ANTIFREEZE POISON FOUND IN 10 WINES - NYTimes.com
www.nytimes.com/.../16/garden/antifreez ... wines.html
16-04-1986 · In an extension of last year's scandal over tainted Austrian, German and Italian wines, ... ANTIFREEZE POISON FOUND IN 10 WINES By IRVIN MOLOTSKY,


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 70191.html
Volkswagen emissions scandal: Audi says 2.1 million of its cars have VW cheat device
VW scandal stretches to Audi cars

Zlata Rodionova |
Monday 28 September 2015

Audi admitted 2.1 million of its diesel cars worldwide were fitted with the same software that allowed VW to cheat on US emission tests.

Some 1.42 million Audi vehicles with so-called EU5 engines are affected in Western Europe, with 577,000 in Germany and almost 13,000 in the United States, a spokesman for Ingolstadt-based Audi said on Monday.

Affected models include the A1, A3, A4, A5, A6, TT, Q3 and Q5, a spokesman told the Reuters news agency.

The news came as German prosecutors opened an investigation against the former Volkswagen chief executive, Martin Winterkorn. The inquiry is focussing on "allegations of fraud in the sale of cars with manipulated emissions data," prosecutors said today.

VW sparked outrage last week after admitting that 11 million of its diesel cars were fitted with defeat devices that could determine when the engine was being tested and change the car’s performance for better results.

The scandal tarnished the ‘made in Germany’ brand exposing it to 18 billion dollars in US fines while its shares fell almost 30 per cent last week.

Matthias Mueller, former chairman of Porsche, replaced Martin Winterkorn as VW chief executive on Friday.

Mr Winterkorn quit last Wednesday saying he had no knowledge of manipulation of emissions results.
Volkswagen shares continued to slide on Monday falling to nearly 7 per cent.


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