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Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

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chetak
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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chetak » 09 Oct 2017 16:18

JohnTitor wrote:The problem with GST isn't a GST issue. It's just that people have jacked up prices using the previous MRP as the base. This means that they weren't paying tax earlier or they are making a quick buck. So it has nothing to do with GST, just greed.

Secondly, restaurants were previously including tax in the price shown in the menu. Now they have statted charging it afterwards. Together with the 9%+9% GST it gives people the impression that that prices have increased

In any event, what's the point of the anti profiteering thing? Isn't a case of closing the barn door after the horse has bolted? Also what are people supposed to do? Find our your local eatery has jacked up prices and complain to some baboo in delhi?? Seems like creating more employment through increased babu recruitment.


a large number of folks will complain about restaurant prices and either the restaurant owners will en masse pay off some minister and other local municipal hands which will be outstretched or the govt may crack down

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby vijayk » 09 Oct 2017 20:01

GST has implementation issues. Most people don't know how to file/how to claim refunds and the server issues are not helping. The infra structure not being there is the main issue. Hope it is worked out.

As an example, when AP introduced e-Seva where ppl can go and pay biils, common man did not go to electricity dept to pay bills. Now ppl are used to it and infra structure helps.

The issue with GST is no one and even Govt. was not ready. Why? We have been talking about GST for 3 years. Why did they not set up infra to help small businesses to do this and get quick refunds?

Another grouse is ATM transaction limits and service fees per transaction. Why are they not paying attention to this issue?

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby nam » 09 Oct 2017 20:12

May be I am from a old generation, why is restaurant prices such a prime issue in the daily life of Indians?

If someone feel the prices are high, don't go to restaurant. The owners will reduce prices once they see the sales are falling.

Atleast in my generation, going to restaurant was not part of a daily life. Unless people have stopped cooking at home,

Restaurant prices used to increase every year even before GST. I dont understand the fuss about restaurant prices.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby hanumadu » 09 Oct 2017 21:20

nam wrote:May be I am from a old generation, why is restaurant prices such a prime issue in the daily life of Indians?

If someone feel the prices are high, don't go to restaurant. The owners will reduce prices once they see the sales are falling.

Atleast in my generation, going to restaurant was not part of a daily life. Unless people have stopped cooking at home,

Restaurant prices used to increase every year even before GST. I dont understand the fuss about restaurant prices.


And it is probably not an issue for 90% of Indians even now. The sticker shock is more acutely felt when you bill 1000 or 2000Rs, out of reach of most middle class folks. Most middle class folk don't eat out even once in a month. At least my family doesn't who live in a B town where prices are much cheaper than metros.

chetak
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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chetak » 09 Oct 2017 22:26

hanumadu wrote:
nam wrote:May be I am from a old generation, why is restaurant prices such a prime issue in the daily life of Indians?

If someone feel the prices are high, don't go to restaurant. The owners will reduce prices once they see the sales are falling.

Atleast in my generation, going to restaurant was not part of a daily life. Unless people have stopped cooking at home,

Restaurant prices used to increase every year even before GST. I dont understand the fuss about restaurant prices.


And it is probably not an issue for 90% of Indians even now. The sticker shock is more acutely felt when you bill 1000 or 2000Rs, out of reach of most middle class folks. Most middle class folk don't eat out even once in a month. At least my family doesn't who live in a B town where prices are much cheaper than metros.


many bachelors, students living away from home, working executives, office goers, and any number of others have no place else to go but restaurants for their food requirements. This is quite a common practice.


I have seen school kids on their own getting their lunches packed directly into their lunch boxes at restaurants in the morning on their way to school. Maybe their mums were busy on that day or whatever.It may just be a plate of idly or vadas but still, it gets packed in their lunch boxes at some convenient hotel on the way to school.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby AdityaM » 09 Oct 2017 23:51


hanumadu
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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby hanumadu » 10 Oct 2017 01:06

chetak wrote:
hanumadu wrote:
And it is probably not an issue for 90% of Indians even now. The sticker shock is more acutely felt when you bill 1000 or 2000Rs, out of reach of most middle class folks. Most middle class folk don't eat out even once in a month. At least my family doesn't who live in a B town where prices are much cheaper than metros.


many bachelors, students living away from home, working executives, office goers, and any number of others have no place else to go but restaurants for their food requirements. This is quite a common practice.


I have seen school kids on their own getting their lunches packed directly into their lunch boxes at restaurants in the morning on their way to school. Maybe their mums were busy on that day or whatever.It may just be a plate of idly or vadas but still, it gets packed in their lunch boxes at some convenient hotel on the way to school.


But they probably buy something under 50 or 100 Rs. Most of these places may be operating under the composition rule.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby ShauryaT » 10 Oct 2017 01:37

Some real world examples.

Fiscal test: As India's smaller firms struggle, PM Narendra Modi faces stimulus dilemma

NEW DELHI/MUMBAI: India's festive season should be a time of celebration for textiles businessman Habib Ansari, who usually spends October counting a boom in profits from supplying retailers ahead of a month of peak shopping.

This year Ansari is grappling with losses, and blames a 50 percent drop in sales in the last three months of confusion wrought by the July launch of a national sales tax and the after-effects of a government crackdown on untaxed wealth.

"Small garment units are not buying due to weak demand. We have cut down our workforce to 600 from 1200," Ansari said from a textiles hub outside Mumbai, as laid-off labourers napped in nearby warehouses.

Ansari's woes highlight how Asia's third-largest economy has cooled rapidly over five consecutive quarters as small and -medium-sized businesses across India report tumbling sales, undermining job creation and damaging sentiment in industries crucial to Prime Minister Narendra Modi's political power base. That has pushed Modi into a tight corner - stepping up stimulus could reduce political damage ahead of a round of state elections beginning in December but shatter the confidence of investors worried about fiscal slippage.

The government is considering spending between 400 to 500 billion rupees ($7.7 billion) more this financial year than it had budgeted for, two senior finance ministry officials told Reuters.

New Delhi has already cut petrol and diesel taxes, but the focus now is on whether to spend more money on rural jobs, housing and recapitalisation of state-run banks, or to give targeted relief to sectors hit hardest by sliding growth, the officials said.

"We face our toughest challenge in three years," said a government official, adding fiscal consolidation was under pressure amid slowing revenue receipts.

The economy grew at an annual 5.7 percent year-on-year in the three months to end-June, its slowest in three years, while tax collection is falling - a turnaround from a year ago when India boasted the fastest growth among major economies.

Political damage
People close to Modi, who romped to power in a landslide victory for his Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) in 2014, say he wants to control the political damage and ensure the economic slowdown remains temporary.

Two BJP grandees, Yashwant Sinha, an ex-finance minister, and Arun Shourie, a former cabinet minister, have been critical of Modi's recent handling of economic reforms.

But the prime minister has to walk a tightrope as pandering to populist policies could risk damaging investor confidence. The BJP has won praise from investors after trimming the fiscal deficit from 4.5 percent of GDP in 2013/14.

When the government last month hinted at more spending, India's stock market skidded for seven consecutive days and the rupee dropped to its lowest level in six months as investors worried about the impact on public debt.

On Sept. 28, the government decided against announcing more borrowing and maintained a target for the 2017/18 financial year in line with a deficit of 3.2 percent, a move welcomed by markets.

Modi could seek parliament's approval for up to 500 billion rupees in extra spending over the budgeted spending, the two finance ministry officials said, which could widen the fiscal deficit to a three-year high of around 3.7 percent of GDP.

India's former chief economist, Arvind Virmani, told Reuters there was no scope for additional spending.

Small business crunched
Acknowledging the slide in sentiment, Modi took the rare step last week of defending his record in a 90-minute speech, calling the economic slowdown a blip, and promising relief.

Small and medium-sized businesses across India are meanwhile cutting staff because of falling demand.

The launch in July of the long-awaited Goods and Service Tax (GST), which transformed India's 29 states into a single customs union, has left firms at the bottom of the supply chain short of working capital.

That came on top of Modi's "demonetisation" decision last November, in which he suddenly banned high-denomination banknotes to force people to declare illicit or untaxed wealth.

Smaller enterprises accustomed to dealing entirely in cash are now required to register themselves under the GST and to file tax returns.

Rashid Tahir Momin, treasurer of the Bhiwandi Powerloom Weavers Federation, said more than 200,000 people have lost their jobs since July in the textiles hub outside Mumbai.

Previously exempt of tax or taxed at lower rates, the requirement to pay higher taxes and then claim them back has left the government owing $10 billion to the textiles, jewellery and other exporting industries.

On Friday, the government announced it would ease tax rules to help smaller businesses.

Narendra Jadhav, a lawmaker close to Modi, said the government was operating with "a great sense of urgency" to resolve the problems faced by the small and medium enterprises.

"Complaints are being noted and addressed. We are committed to bring about structural changes, create jobs and improve infrastructure," Jadhav said.

Fiscal stability
Finance Minister Arun Jaitley had estimated a 16.4 percent rise in tax receipts to $188.7 billion this year, but the government faces a shortfall of up to 1 trillion rupees following the GST launch, one of the two finance ministry officials said.

India's fiscal deficit including federal and state borrowing is close to 6 percent, and the central bank governor, Urjit Patel, warned this month that further widening could hit fiscal stability.

Mahesh Vyas, head of the Centre for Monitoring Indian Economy, said that 500 billion rupees ($7.65 billion) of extra spending would not be sufficient to turn the economy round.

"The government should send a clear message whether it wants to provide a stimulus or not," he said.

"The uncertainty is hitting markets and any small stimulus would just be a waste of money."

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby vijayk » 10 Oct 2017 01:59

We file monthly sales tax returns in 6 US states.

We file total sales for the month, exempt/return sales, tax collected and pay only difference. Why can't we follow the model. Reconcile at the end of the year based on 4 quarterly statements.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby prahaar » 10 Oct 2017 03:19

Both the above examples in the ET article seem to be from Bhiwandi. Is there any data point from Suratvasi? There may be a high correlation or may be not.

Bhiwandi textile industry sections are quite notorious for exploitation and poor conditions. I recalled the following article during India Shining 2004. I am not suggesting politics, but rather underlining the reason to investigate the impact in a wider geographical and sector wise spread (to avoid Mumbaikar journalist bias, researching in neighborhood. And if they are running the business as 2004 article points out, taxation/GST might be causing compliance difficulties.

http://www.frontline.in/static/html/fl2105/stories/20040312006701200.htm
Victims of 'new economy' 2004 Article


Bhiwandi, about 50 km from Mumbai, became the largest powerloom centre in the country. The State government estimates that over 40 lakh people are dependent directly or indirectly on the looms of Bhiwandi. With cheap labour available, loom shed owners have exploited the situation. They pay well below the minimum wage and provide inhuman conditions to work in. "Hundreds die of tuberculosis because they inhale cotton lint and many are handicapped by physical disabilities every year," says Baliram Choudhary, a trade union activist in Bhiwandi. "There is absolutely no protection for the workers. If you protest, you can be sacked. In Bhiwandi, it is possible to pick anyone off the road and they are prepared to work for any amount."

A recent strike called by loom owners to protest against the Central government's proposal to levy excise duty on grey fabric led to the closure of sheds for one month. More than four lakh workers had no source to a livelihood. Mohammed Munir, who has been working in Bhiwandi for more than a decade, says: "Not that when the looms are working our lives are any better." Munir earns Rs.1.70 a metre of cloth he weaves on the loom. He operates four machines simultaneously to make about 44 m a day and what he earns hardly sustains his family. Munir lives in a slum with his wife and children. There are no civic facilities available. But he has no place to go. Having sold his farm in Uttar Pradesh to get to Mumbai and then to Bhiwandi, Munir has few options available.


This is not a defense of government policies. On the contrary, I felt the data points were quite the same, again (to 2004 election period).

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby ShauryaT » 10 Oct 2017 04:48

What are the chances of a devaluation of INR by about 10%, it has already slipped a few %

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby yensoy » 10 Oct 2017 06:03

ShauryaT wrote:What are the chances of a devaluation of INR by about 10%, it has already slipped a few %


It's slipped a few % because USD has gone up a bit against all currencies after Fed tightening talk. It has nothing to do with weakness in the rupee, and you need clear weakness in the rupee for a 10% devaluation. We have 399 billion$ in the kitty, why would RBI devalue now? How will it make the government look? Are you ready to pay Rs80/litre for petrol?

Zero chances. Wait for PKR to drop 10-20% instead.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby disha » 10 Oct 2017 08:51

ssundar wrote:You are continuing to assume that I am some sort of Modi baiter. Not sure if you have ever seen my posts in the GDF.
You would be surprised to know how I use the numbers I learn here and elsewhere.


Apologies.

To be honest., I think there is wealth of data published by NICs and GOI on various parameters. See the links I gave., particularly the 200 page pdf file and there is a clear indication on which sectors suffered by demo. Those sectors were on Kala Dhan (black money).

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby disha » 10 Oct 2017 09:01

Morning Brief:

Truck Operators Start Two-Day Strike: Hundreds of thousands of trucks went off the road on Monday as a part of a two-day nationwide strike to protest against rising diesel prices and the goods and services tax (GST). “Transporters all over the country are up in the arms against GST, diesel prices, harassment of truck operators and corruption on roads and toll policies,” said Bal Malkit Singh, chairman of the core committee of All India Motor Transport Congress. The body claimed nearly 10 million truck operators and other transporters remained off the roads. “This is our token strike, and if the government does not do the needful, we will call an indefinite strike after Diwali,” Singh added.


Truckers protesting against GST?

Basically some markets were cornered by the truckers., and GST has opened up those markets detriment to caramelization of truckers. Hence the angst.

Interestingly it is not major news anywhere.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chetak » 10 Oct 2017 09:15

hanumadu wrote:
chetak wrote:
many bachelors, students living away from home, working executives, office goers, and any number of others have no place else to go but restaurants for their food requirements. This is quite a common practice.


I have seen school kids on their own getting their lunches packed directly into their lunch boxes at restaurants in the morning on their way to school. Maybe their mums were busy on that day or whatever.It may just be a plate of idly or vadas but still, it gets packed in their lunch boxes at some convenient hotel on the way to school.


But they probably buy something under 50 or 100 Rs. Most of these places may be operating under the composition rule.


we are talking jacked up prices, not about the seller paying taxes.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby yensoy » 10 Oct 2017 09:43

disha wrote:Truckers protesting against GST?

Basically some markets were cornered by the truckers., and GST has opened up those markets detriment to caramelization of truckers. Hence the angst.

Interestingly it is not major news anywhere.


I would have expected truckers to be thrilled with GST so they didn't have wait for days on end at state borders, and could make their deliveries much quicker and earn more in the process.

Or maybe they liked that lifestyle, and the frolicking they could have with the sex workers employed at these locations.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby disha » 10 Oct 2017 09:44

chetak wrote:we are talking jacked up prices, not about the seller paying taxes.


Chetak'ji., many bachelors, students living away from home, working executives, office goers, and any number of others do not go to fancy restaurants.
They have "mess" or "cooked container deliveries" that are really price competitive.

Young people in it-vity going to fancy restaurants and complaining about jacked up prices really need to check out their options., on how much they are spending for lunch or dinner or booze.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby disha » 10 Oct 2017 09:47

yensoy wrote:I would have expected truckers to be thrilled with GST so they didn't have wait for days on end at state borders, and could make their deliveries much quicker and earn more in the process.


Definitely for several., but then for some they now have to compete. Earlier they could get away blaming the octroi or some such issue on late delivery. But now more competition is ushered in.

chetak
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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chetak » 10 Oct 2017 10:02

disha wrote:
chetak wrote:we are talking jacked up prices, not about the seller paying taxes.


Chetak'ji., many bachelors, students living away from home, working executives, office goers, and any number of others do not go to fancy restaurants.
They have "mess" or "cooked container deliveries" that are really price competitive.

Young people in it-vity going to fancy restaurants and complaining about jacked up prices really need to check out their options., on how much they are spending for lunch or dinner or booze.


We are not talking fancy, a/c, bar attached restaurants, saar. Even ordinary ones have jacked up their prices seeing the opportunity.

Anyway, footfalls have dropped drastically in all such fancy "service tax" type restaurants.

imagine paying 30-40% extra for exactly the same shitty food.

chetak
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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chetak » 10 Oct 2017 10:08

yensoy wrote:
disha wrote:Truckers protesting against GST?

Basically some markets were cornered by the truckers., and GST has opened up those markets detriment to caramelization of truckers. Hence the angst.

Interestingly it is not major news anywhere.


I would have expected truckers to be thrilled with GST so they didn't have wait for days on end at state borders, and could make their deliveries much quicker and earn more in the process.

Or maybe they liked that lifestyle, and the frolicking they could have with the sex workers employed at these locations.


money is still being extracted by way of "paper checking" and "physical" verification of goods being carried. Same shit, but a different excuse for money making.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Aditya_V » 10 Oct 2017 11:03

Yes, some money being extracted but quantum is coming down. Regarding Truckers, its a tough life , Truckers mean Transport companies not the guy who drives 12 hours a day doign the job.

chetak
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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chetak » 10 Oct 2017 13:39

Here is the proof that GST related hike in prices has hit restaurants and more folks will continue to boycott them for their slyly jacked up prices too.

GST: Hotels turn non-AC, suffer losses


GST: Hotels turn non-AC, suffer losses

Image


Post-GST, air-conditioned eateries in the city are hit badly. Over 300 AC restaurants across the city have turned non-AC and more of them are jumping onto the cost-cutting band wagon. Customers are directly affected by the measure as they have settle for less comfort and pay more for facilities they don’t use at their favourite haunts.

Chandrashekhar Hebbar, President, Bruhat Bangalore Hotels Association (BBHA) told DH that BBHA office-bearers said they wanted 12% instead of the existing 18% imposition of GST for hotels with with AC facility.

“Restaurants offering air-conditioning have been included in the 18% slab. The 18% tax is applicable to the entire restaurant, including non AC section, which is unfair,” said Hebbar.

The restaurants that don’t offer AC service to their customers, but have one AC in any corner attract 18% tax. Not just that, customers buying parcel food in AC restaurants also pay 18% tax.

“We are unable to cope up with the situation. Customers object the imposition of the tax. Why should they pay the tax when they haven’t used the service either while taking home parcels or using the non AC floor?” asked Hebbar.

According to the Association office-bearers, customers often argue, even fight and the restaurants lose business Hebbar added. “There have been attacks and vandalisation at restaurants over the tax issue. Some customers have been approached police seeking justice,” says Hebbar.
Vandalisation at restaurants have been reported Basaveshwaranagar, Basavanagudi, Malleshwaram and Jayanagar. Restaurants owners in Gandhinagar in particular have faced many problems. The west division police too confirmed such incidents.

As owners started imposing the tax, customers chose to stay off. “ We’ve incurred losses upto 30 % in the last three months, while close to 40 % customers have stopped visiting restaurants, he said.

Unable to find a way out as they were stuck between taxmen and customers, hoteliers met recently and decided to do away with the AC. They removed all types of ACs in their hotels. There are about 3,000 registered restaurants of all types, including bars and restaurants in the city.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby kvraghav » 10 Oct 2017 13:48

Heard in Karnataka, the tax was only two percent and that is why the entire 18% is being charged. Heck even my VOLVO bus pass has increased by 600 rs and they are showing it as GST. Every non competing business like reputed hotels, Office Cafeteria, Bus passes are trying to make money.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Bart S » 10 Oct 2017 14:55

yensoy wrote:
disha wrote:Truckers protesting against GST?

Basically some markets were cornered by the truckers., and GST has opened up those markets detriment to caramelization of truckers. Hence the angst.

Interestingly it is not major news anywhere.


I would have expected truckers to be thrilled with GST so they didn't have wait for days on end at state borders, and could make their deliveries much quicker and earn more in the process.

Or maybe they liked that lifestyle, and the frolicking they could have with the sex workers employed at these locations.


There are still long lines of trucks to be found at checkpoints near state borders, so what they say is correct about states not taking down these barriers. However it would be the state govts fault, whereas the GST and center are being blamed. The center can only blame themselves though as they should have put in mechanisms/guarantees to avoid this as part of the GST process.

Another thing that they missed as part of the GST process was mandating old and new prices to be printed for a period of 6 months post GST rollout. By not doing that they have shot themselves in the foot and allowed space for all sorts of vested interests and plain greedy people to extort money and conveniently blame it on the PMO.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby JayS » 10 Oct 2017 15:04

kvraghav wrote:Heard in Karnataka, the tax was only two percent and that is why the entire 18% is being charged. Heck even my VOLVO bus pass has increased by 600 rs and they are showing it as GST. Every non competing business like reputed hotels, Office Cafeteria, Bus passes are trying to make money.


I thought KA has one of the highest VAT. There could be differences in tax due to VAT state-wise and category-wise, because it was a state matter. But ST was the same at ~15% for all the nation. Why would bus pass for example which is service should have more than 3% hike..? Looks like case of profiteering. in that case a complaint should be raised to GST anti-profiteering body, I think.

Regarding the AC restaurant taxing, its a stupid-ass decision to apply AC tax on food from non-AC section or parcelled food. I don't know who came up with this bright idea.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Virupaksha » 10 Oct 2017 15:40

JayS wrote:Regarding the AC restaurant taxing, its a stupid-ass decision to apply AC tax on food from non-AC section or parcelled food. I don't know who came up with this bright idea.

Simply because, 90% of the restaurants had the bright idea that they will show to Govt all the food sold in AC as non-AC and "eat" the taxation - and give dog biscuits. So the Government said, we cant scrutinise you whether each bill you sold is in AC or non-AC - we will charge all the food at the same rate.
Simpler and more transparent :wink:

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Prasad » 10 Oct 2017 15:48

With the kind of idiotic revisions you see every month, how many times will people keep printing new new rates according to whims of gst council? :)

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby JayS » 10 Oct 2017 16:20

Virupaksha wrote:
JayS wrote:Regarding the AC restaurant taxing, its a stupid-ass decision to apply AC tax on food from non-AC section or parcelled food. I don't know who came up with this bright idea.

Simply because, 90% of the restaurants had the bright idea that they will show to Govt all the food sold in AC as non-AC and "eat" the taxation - and give dog biscuits. So the Government said, we cant scrutinise you whether each bill you sold is in AC or non-AC - we will charge all the food at the same rate.
Simpler and more transparent :wink:


Obviously I understand this argument but its Unacceptable. A lot of people middle and lower strata folks eat food (especially lunch) in the non-AC section of udupi restaurents in BLR, a lot of which have AC sections. I am sure many more such people exist across India. Earlier there was only 5% or less tax on food there (exempted from ST, only VAT). Now its hiked upto 18%. They have to suffer because government cannot do its job properly. I wouldn't care so much about 12-15% increase in daily food bill (I hardly go out for lunch anyway) but I think a person who is earning 10-20k per month would find it to be a significant jump.

Government cannot scrutinize a lot of other things. In the name of simplicity and transparency we can have lot of other illogical things.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby JayS » 10 Oct 2017 16:30

Prasad wrote:With the kind of idiotic revisions you see every month, how many times will people keep printing new new rates according to whims of gst council? :)

Its a good thing that they are actively listening to people and making changes in early phase. Would you rather want a deaf government or excessively bureaucratic/lethargic government which doesn't give shit to public sentiments..? Just the other day an ardent Modi hater was saying how stupid this government is to force small bizmen to file monthly returns. News came after a couple of days that GOI is mulling quarterly returns and also increase limits for composition schemes. This is a good sign. The transition period will be over soon. This is perhaps the biggest reform after independence. It was never going to be painless. To be fair a some of the blame lies with people as well. Everyone knew GST is coming for years. Still majority didn't bother to get ready in whichever way possible.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Prasad » 10 Oct 2017 16:48

No. Idiotic decisions like having split tax rates for a/c & non a/c restaurants and stuff that vina was talking about is what shouldn't have happened in the first place. Of course this arises due to greed of state fm's who couldn't be bothered about making the rates rational and easy to understand but more of a 'revenue neutral' system (which is hilarious given fuel and alcohol aren't included).
It is good though that they're listening. Silver lining.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby A_Gupta » 10 Oct 2017 16:51

35 percent of Bhiwandi's looms had closed before demonetization, per this Hindu article from Feb 2017. Demonetization and GST hit them too.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/mum ... 195077.ece

Bhiwandi’s residents always had a sinking feeling that the official line, that the note ban is a temporary inconvenience to be put up with for the good of the country, was not going to apply to them. About 35% of the looms here had closed down even before demonetisation, with weavers citing various reasons such as competition from foreign cloth and vacillating yarn prices. In that context, demonetisation was hardly going to be a small Bhiwandi’s residents always had a sinking feeling that the official line, that the note ban is a temporary inconvenience to be put up with for the good of the country, was not going to apply to them. About 35% of the looms here had closed down even before demonetisation, with weavers citing various reasons such as competition from foreign cloth and vacillating yarn prices. In that context, demonetisation was hardly going to be a small complication.


.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby nam » 10 Oct 2017 17:18

kvraghav wrote:Heard in Karnataka, the tax was only two percent and that is why the entire 18% is being charged. Heck even my VOLVO bus pass has increased by 600 rs and they are showing it as GST. Every non competing business like reputed hotels, Office Cafeteria, Bus passes are trying to make money.


This sounds like using more money under the grab of GST. similar to as one member said GST is been applied on Personal loan Interest rates!

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby A_Gupta » 10 Oct 2017 17:18

Worth a read:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 763110.cms

GST will put paid to India's informal sector, drawing most of it into the formal universe and killing off much of what is left behind. This change will erode the flexibility the economy derives from informality and has serious implications for India's political economy.
....
Compliance with GST means revealing input purchases and sales. That reveals income as well, to the beady eyes of the taxman, who could then open up claimed expenses and verify them. If the GST-paying small producer shows huge interest expenses, the audit trail would lead to the lender, often a member of the neta-babu tribe, and his sources of income. Informality, RIP.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby A_Gupta » 10 Oct 2017 17:24

For example, India’s textiles and apparel sector alone contributes about 10% to manufacturing production, 2% to the GDP and 15% to the country’s total exports earnings. The sector is the second largest employment provider in the country, employing about 5.1 crore people directly and 6.8 crore people indirectly in FY 2015-16.

The garment sector provides employment to 1.23 crore people as per data compiled for 2016-17. At a time when big corporate houses are shedding jobs, these export-oriented sectors have been quite resilient.

But threat of massive lay-offs loomed as these sectors saw precipitous drops in exports during July and August, forcing government’s hand.

While the government has given some relief to the MSME sector on the GST front, small businesses are feeling suffocated by key conditions of the ‘Make in India’ scheme and unable to duly benefit from it.

This had led the Federation of Indian Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (FISME) to write to Prime Minister Narendra Modi to seek changes in these provisions. FISME has sought changes in provisions relating to value addition, purchase preference quota, pre-qualification requirement for participation in government tender and an end to the growing practice of bundling of tenders.

“The condition of a minimum value addition of 50% to qualify for the preference is unnecessary. The stated purchase preference needs to be made available to domestic manufacturers, whatever be the extent of value addition. High barriers help MNCs as only they can overcome such barriers through transfer pricing and cross-subsidising,” says the letter written by FISME president Dinesh Tripathi to the prime minister.

The letter also seeks the prime minister’s intervention to increase purchase preference quote for the domestic industry from 50% to 75%.

Tripathi has also sought changes in pre-qualification conditions for participation in government tender. “Pre-qualification requirements are framed in such a manner that they block entry of new domestic players including MSMEs and tend to perpetuate monopoly of the entrenched players chiefly MNCs. The PQRs need to be subjected to intense scrutiny and debate,” the letter says.

It adds, “Government projects are increasingly being farmed on turnkey basis. The turn-key contractor like a public procurement agency ought to follow the conditions of ‘Make in India’. Similarly, practice of ‘bundling’ of orders is used to crowd out MSMEs as with higher threshold only a handful of large players and MNCs remain in the fray.”

https://thewire.in/185404/stung-by-slow ... aking-gst/

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby nam » 10 Oct 2017 17:25


The restaurants that don’t offer AC service to their customers, but have one AC in any corner attract 18% tax. Not just that, customers buying parcel food in AC restaurants also pay 18% tax.



This is an excuse. I understand it is a silly law, however this is a made up complaint to cover up profiteering or height of idiocy . Tell customer pay up 18% because there is one A/C and tell the tax man that one A/C is broken, so GST does not apply.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chetak » 10 Oct 2017 17:27

Prasad wrote:No. Idiotic decisions like having split tax rates for a/c & non a/c restaurants and stuff that vina was talking about is what shouldn't have happened in the first place. Of course this arises due to greed of state fm's who couldn't be bothered about making the rates rational and easy to understand but more of a 'revenue neutral' system (which is hilarious given fuel and alcohol aren't included).
It is good though that they're listening. Silver lining.


nothing wrong in making categories like processed/unprocessed items, all food in one category itiyadi, itiyadi, instead of this very mean mentality of plundering, for example, chocolate eaters at 28% and what not.

the states have had a very large part to play in all this as they have blackmailed the govt as part of the deal and their pound of flesh, to support the GST rollout and implementation.

why would chocolate be a sin?? I can understand tobacco and alcohol but chocolates??

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby nam » 10 Oct 2017 17:32

Small business who want to escape showing their revenue can easily do it by under-invoicing. A potato chip maker can under-invoice his raw material by making a deal with the potato producer. The producer saves on GST and the chip maker can get a discount, which will cover up his input credit.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby vinod » 10 Oct 2017 17:41

nam wrote:Small business who want to escape showing their revenue can easily do it by under-invoicing. A potato chip maker can under-invoice his raw material by making a deal with the potato producer. The producer saves on GST and the chip maker can get a discount, which will cover up his input credit.

And what happens when he sells his chips? If the buyer demands a bill, he will end up invoicing more than the input!!! Its probably much easier for him to do it properly, than try and do the balancing trick every time! He is bound to make a mistake at some point.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Pratyush » 10 Oct 2017 17:43

A few days ago in the lajpat nagar market ishq and I were out shopping for curtains. One of the shops we visited had put up a board that if you want bill to include GST. The bill will be raised by 5 %.

I challenged him to tell him that his supplier has already paid the gst on the production he has to claim an offset when sell the item and not load it up.

But he did not agree.

This is the example of everything that is wrong with indian small business .

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby ShauryaT » 10 Oct 2017 17:58

^Blaming the people is a cop out. The Indian small business is the back bone of the country and this party in power. The problem is not the small business, it is the historical memory of the system. No small business person is going to trust the government as a pre-condition, unless systemic changes are experienced by them in a non-threatening environment. The Indian people are extremely independent minded. Threaten them and they will screw you over twice. Making groups of people as the enemy and instilling in them the same education that I received that all Banias are chors is no way forward.


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