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Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

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Gus
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby Gus » 04 Aug 2017 01:53

attract rainfall


Is this factual? Is it not the reverse that is true - that it is rainfall that attracts trees?

NRao
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby NRao » 04 Aug 2017 03:24

Here is another angle (he is controversial)


Dipanker
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby Dipanker » 04 Aug 2017 03:35

Well the reverse is certainly true, but there are theories explaining why forests and rainforest attract rain. It has something to do with the excess moisture shed by trees which condenses with the existing moisture in the atmosphere to form clouds and eventually rain etc.

NRao
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby NRao » 04 Aug 2017 03:45

Rain forests?

But, not sure by planting a gazillion trees one could create a man made rain forest. Which is what I think you are saying. ???? Dunno.

Dipanker
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby Dipanker » 04 Aug 2017 04:06

I would completely agree with you, certainly we can't create man made rainforest. But by planting large number of trees we can certainly create forests or at least increase the area under tree cover.

NRao
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby NRao » 08 Aug 2017 16:30

A flood of problems

Peru’s glaciers have made it a laboratory for adapting to climate change. It’s not going well.

After a day of bright sunshine, a chunk of ice the size of a dump truck broke off the glacier on Mount Pucaranra a few weeks ago. It plunged into the lake below and kicked up a wave nine feet high.

Victor Morales, a small, catlike man with a tattered ski cap who is the lake’s solitary watchman, scrambled up to a stone hut on the side of the mountain and got on the radio. The wave had damaged an emergency drainage system meant to reduce the volume of the lake. But to his great relief, the earthen dam holding back the water was intact.

“It wasn’t a big avalanche,” Morales said.

Lake Palcacocha is a mile long and 250 feet deep, and the effect of a large avalanche would be similar to dropping a bowling ball in a bathtub. Modeling scenarios predict a 100-foot wave so powerful it would blow out the dam. Three billion gallons of ice water would go roaring down the mountain toward the city of Huaraz, burying its 200,000 residents under an Andean tsunami of mud, trees and boulders.

Image


Lake Palcacocha is an example of the immediate threats Peru and other developing countries are facing from climate change. The country is especially vulnerable since it is home to 70 percent of the world’s “tropical glaciers” — small, high-altitude ice caps found at the earth’s middle latitudes. Their disappearance has made Peru something of a laboratory for human adaptation to climate change.

So far, it’s not going very well.

“For countries like Peru that are trying to climb out of poverty, there are major social, cultural and economic obstacles to adaptation,” said Nelson Santillán, a researcher at Peru’s national water authority. “Identifying risks is one thing, but doing something about them is another.”

In the weeks since President Trump announced the United States would renege on its commitment to the Paris climate accord, scientists have pointed to new signs the planet is edging closer to a precipice. Maximum temperature records continue falling. New cracks are opening at the polar ice caps.

Peru’s high-altitude glaciers are tiny by comparison, but millions of people depend on their runoff for water, food and hydroelectricity.

Some of Peru’s glaciers have lost more than 90 percent of their mass. While much of the water trickles harmlessly down the mountainside, in places like Lake Palcacocha, it is pooling in great big puddles of melted ice. Many of these new lakes are held back by glacial moraines, which are essentially mounds of compressed sediments. They may be structurally weak, and as the volume of water pushing on them increases, some will collapse

“We have glaciers across 19 — no, 18 — mountain ranges,” said Marco Zapata, a top scientist at Peru’s institute for glacier research, correcting himself to reflect the latest monitoring data.

“They’re all shrinking.”

For Peruvian authorities, this is becoming more of an engineering problem than an environmental lament. Without reliable glacial runoff, the country’s water and irrigation systems will need to be retooled. New dams and reservoirs will be needed to more effectively store water. Investments in agriculture and other water-intensive industries will need to be recalculated.

“The glacier used to come down to there,” said Tomás Rosario, 45, who farms in the shadow of 22,000-foot Huascaran, Peru’s highest peak. He pointed at a ridge above his village, where bare rock was exposed. “Now the snow is gone and we’re running out of water.”


...........


Dipanker
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby Dipanker » 24 Aug 2017 02:54

ALASKA’S PERMAFROST IS THAWING

YUKON DELTA NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE, Alaska — The Arctic is warming about twice as fast as other parts of the planet, and even here in sub-Arctic Alaska the rate of warming is high. Sea ice and wildlife habitat are disappearing; higher sea levels threaten coastal native villages.

But to the scientists from Woods Hole Research Center who have come here to study the effects of climate change, the most urgent is the fate of permafrost, the always-frozen ground that underlies much of the state.

Starting just a few feet below the surface and extending tens or even hundreds of feet down, it contains vast amounts of carbon in organic matter — plants that took carbon dioxide from the atmosphere centuries ago, died and froze before they could decompose. Worldwide, permafrost is thought to contain about twice as much carbon as is currently in the atmosphere.

Once this ancient organic material thaws, microbes convert some of it to carbon dioxide and methane, which can flow into the atmosphere and cause even more warming. Scientists have estimated that the process of permafrost thawing could contribute as much as 1.7 degrees Fahrenheit to global warming over the next several centuries, independent of what society does to reduce emissions from burning fossil fuels and other activities.

NRao
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby NRao » 30 Sep 2017 00:41

How wind can power the world's mass transit

This year, Dutch commuters ditched fossil fuels to power their country's trains on 100% wind energy - and it's a grand idea that's catching on the world over.

NRao
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby NRao » 04 Oct 2017 22:23


NRao
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Posts: 15760
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Location: Illini Nation

Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby NRao » 04 Oct 2017 22:27

Global warming may limit airplane takeoffs in coming decades

As climate change brings high temperatures around the globe, new research suggests some airplanes could struggle to takeoff.

Airplane wings generate less lift in thin air. Warmer air is thinner air, as molecules in the atmosphere move farther apart as they heat up.

Thus, during extremely hot portions of the day, some plane models may need to dump weight -- whether fuel, cargo or passengers -- to get airborne.

..............................................

UlanBatori
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby UlanBatori » 07 Oct 2017 17:09

AoA! I am posting something seen on the Internet (Googal Scholar 2 b prejise): Please beat up on this as much as possible.

The Flying Carpet: Aerodynamic High-Altitude Solar Reflector Design Study

Our concept studies indicate that a set of reflectors floated in the upper atmosphere can efficiently reduce radiant forcing into the atmosphere. The cost of reducing the radiant forcing sufficiently to reverse the current rate of Global Warming, is well within reach of global financial resources. This paper summarizes the overall concept and focuses on one of the reflector concepts, the Flying Carpet. The basic element of this reflector array is a rigidized reflector sheet towed behind and above a solar-powered, distributed electric-propelled flying wing. The vehicle rises above 30,480 m (100,000 ft) in the daytime by solar power. At night, the very low wing loading of the sheets enables the system to stay well above the controlled airspace ceiling of 18,288 m (60,000 ft). The concept study results are summarized before going into technical issues in implementation. Flag instability is studied in initial wind tunnel experiments. This has forced evolution of the concept to one similar to a hang-glider, the sheet supporting the propelled wing at very low flight speed. Later designs may dispense with the wing altogether. Lift-induced drag can be minimized by joining several elements together in flight to create a large aspect ratio, and by staggering elements in flight as long-distance birds do, with swarm flight control. The primary parameter is the areal density that can be achieved for the reflector sheet under aerodynamic loads. Successful designs can be closed even with 2-mil Mylar sheets, but going to strengthened versions of solar sails would offer strong advantages. Mass-based cost estimation allows an upper bound on architecture cost by comparing equivalent number of launch masses of a well-known large space launch system. The next level of cost analysis shows that the manufacturing cost which is dominant, is best addressed through automotive industry techniques.

Amber G.
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby Amber G. » 09 Oct 2017 03:13

MIT News: Kerry Emanuel:
This year’s hurricanes are a taste of the future
It describes physics behind expected increase in storm strength due to climate change...
http://news.mit.edu/2017/kerry-emanuel- ... uture-0921

Mort Walker
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby Mort Walker » 09 Oct 2017 22:43

Freeman Dyson claimed that climate change is the secular religion of the 21st century.


UlanBatori
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Oct 2017 06:20

Not counting that in Lok Sabha, the Capitol, British Parliament etc.

NRao
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby NRao » 10 Oct 2017 06:56

How come the city that elected a President, Chicago, the Windy City, did not make that list?

:evil:

NRao
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby NRao » 12 Oct 2017 23:03


NRao
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby NRao » 12 Oct 2017 23:10

Image

Image

NRao
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby NRao » 12 Oct 2017 23:11

Image

Kashi
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby Kashi » 13 Oct 2017 05:17

I would have thought that going by the above, a large proportion of Sri Lankan population too would be vulnerable to rising seas levels. But Sri Lanka is missing from the list.

NRao
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby NRao » 13 Oct 2017 05:55

Kashi wrote:I would have thought that going by the above, a large proportion of Sri Lankan population too would be vulnerable to rising seas levels. But Sri Lanka is missing from the list.


Bugged me too. Apparently it is not an issue. A meter or two would be problematic, but not catastrophic, like in the case of those other nations. Try http://indi.ca/2015/09/sri-lankas-risin ... with-maps/

periaswamy
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby periaswamy » 13 Oct 2017 08:00

Most of the above figures and numbers are for "number of people affected" and it correlates with population density given that India and china are in the top three. Are there similar numbers for top 20 states affected in terms of loss of land area due to rising seas? I would not be surprised if all the countries creating a racket about global warming in Europe are the most affected if we looked at those numbers. I cannot find any such figures with a web search.

Amber G.
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby Amber G. » 15 Oct 2017 10:48

Mort Walker wrote:Freeman Dyson claimed that climate change is the secular religion of the 21st century.

It is interesting to see number of times Dyson's name taken in this way. Some may find my earlier post in this dhaga helpful.
Quoted again for convenience..

Amber G. wrote:It was interesting to see my guru Freeman D. described as "greatest living scientist" 8)
mohanty wrote:
Here is more wow...
Here is some more wow, one of the greatest living scientist Freeman Dyson saying climate change propaganda is absurd,
http://bigthink.com/devils-advocate/freeman-dyson-climate-change-predictions-are-absurd
<snip>

It was amusing to see the invoking of Freeman Dyson as "one of the greatest living scientist" in this way. This is being done not only in brf but many other places by others too.
(Disclaimer: I have known Freeman Dyson more than 40 years, and as one of my gurus, I obviously respect him lot and consider him an outstanding scientist )

First a few random tidbits - (fairly well known but some may not know it here). FD is a pukka democrat - an open Obama supporter, so it is funny that his quotes are being used by current Republican presidential hopefuls {Now he is POTUS of course}

It was also amusing to see that NONE of these Republicans hopefuls, (and "pretty famous guys" like Glen Beck) quotes FD's current take on Iran Nuclear Deal (which he supports in very strong terms), or his theories of cosmology which does NOT talk about earth being created in 7 days.

As most of those who have worked with (or know about him) know, FD is very well-known "contrarian"..
(His wife, at least sometimes ago, believed in GW a lot , wanted to buy Prius, and he did not think it will save the earth :) One should be careful in understanding what he says..and not to use his words in 30 seconds sound-bytes.

He is quite dismissive of Al Gore, and Al Gore's movie (Inconvenient Truth), and even of James Hansen (head of the NASA Goddard Institute - who I think was an adviser to Gore' film)... Legend has it that when the Dyson couple saw the Gore's movie, Mrs Dyson cried seeing all the ice melting .. and confronted her husband "Everything you told me is wrong!" to that her husband replied "polar bears will be fine" :)


Anyway just to give some perspective -- TIFWIW (read more yourself - there is plenty good material out there).
- He has no doubt that anthropogenic global warming exists, and has written that "the main causes of warming is the increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere resulting from our burning of fossil fuels such as oil and coal and natural gas." (As people have reported quite widely that he is critical os some existing simulation models ..and as contains too much error to reliably predict future trends:
(See for this link or many of his writings: http://edge.org/conversation/heretical-thoughts-about-science-and-society
- He makes quite a bit of distinction between pollution (which is "clearly" man made, its effects much precisely predicted and can be controlled by easier methods) CO2.

Anyway there is plenty of good material out there to discus and read while avoiding CT's and pseudoscience..

Amber G.
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby Amber G. » 15 Oct 2017 11:08

Some may find this helpful - 2015 Interview with Freeman Dyson -
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aAwmmpdIgk

NRao
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Re: Climate Change: Propaganda Vs Reality

Postby NRao » 16 Oct 2017 21:15

Data ....................................

With the increase in CO2 the earth is getting greener - that is what NASA detected. That is true.

However, there is data to prove otherwise too, which very unfortunately is not considered in most discussions by some eminent scientists.

The great thaw of America's north is coming

One of the most profound effects of a warming world is underway on US soil – the impact will force thousands to relocate, and have far-reaching, global consequences. Sara Goudarzi reports from Alaska.


Vladimir Romanovsky walks through the dense black spruce forest with ease. Not once does he stop or slow down to balance himself on the cushy moss beneath his feet insulating the permafrost.

It’s a warm day in July, and the scientist is looking for a box that he and his team have installed on the ground. It’s hidden nearly six miles (10km) north of the Geophysical Institute at the University of Alaska in Fairbanks, where he’s a professor of geophysics and heads the Permafrost Laboratory.

The box, which is covered by tree branches, contains a data collector connected to a thermometer installed below ground for measuring permafrost temperature at different depths. Permafrost is any earth material that remains at or below 0C (32F) for at least two consecutive years.

Romanovsky connects his laptop to the data collector to transfer the temperature data for this location – called Goldstream III – which he will later add to an online database accessible to both scientists and interested individuals.

“Permafrost is defined on the basis of temperature, the parameter that characterises its stability,” Romanovsky says.
The thaw is deepening and expanding, causing the permafrost underneath to become less stable

When the temperature of permafrost is below 0C (32F), for example -6C (21F), it is considered stable and will take a long time to thaw or to change. If it's close to 0C, however, it's considered vulnerable.

Every summer the portion of soil overlaying the permafrost, called the active layer, thaws, before refreezing the following winter. At Goldstream III, on this July day, the summer thaw currently ends at 50cm depth.

As the Earth warms and summer temperatures climb, the thaw is deepening and expanding, causing the permafrost underneath to become less stable.

The consequences, if this thawing continues, will be profound, for Alaska – and for the world. Nearly 90% of the state is covered in permafrost, which means entire villages will need to be relocated, as the foundations of buildings and roads crumble. And if this frozen cache releases the millennia of accumulated carbon it has locked within, it could accelerate the warming of our planet – far beyond our ability to control it.

As permafrost thaws, houses, roads, airports and other infrastructure built on the frozen ground can crack and even collapse.

“We are seeing some increased maintenance on existing roads over permafrost,” says Jeff Currey, materials engineer for Northern Region of the Alaska Department of Transportation Public Facilities. “One of our maintenance superintendents recently told me his folks are having to patch settling areas on the highways he's responsible for more frequently than they were 10 or 20 years ago.”

.................................................


Long article. Worth the read. Here is real data for anyone to consider.


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