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Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 20 Apr 2017 12:46

in my era the GHY-DEL rajdhani used to alternately use a northern and southern route in UP. I guess one of them was bypassing prayag

Image

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Austin » 20 Apr 2017 13:21

Russian Railways to sign Nagpur-Secunderabad line modernisation contract
3 April 2017 Aniket Chakraborty

http://in.rbth.com/economics/2017/04/03 ... act_733611
JSC Russian Railways will soon sign a contract with India’s Railway Ministry to modernise the Nagpur-Secunderabad line, Alexander Misharin, first Vice-President of Russian Railways, told TASS on March 31.

Trains on the 575-km line will run at a speed at 200 km per hour once the modernisation is complete, Misharin said, adding that the contract could be signed in a couple of weeks.

Russian specialists have conducted a preliminary survey of the route, and a working group for implementation of the project was created, Misharin added.

The protocol for the preparation of a feasibility study for modernisation of the Nagpur-Secunderabad railway line was signed on the sidelines of the 2016 Russia-India Summit in Goa.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Austin » 20 Apr 2017 13:22

Will they use new engine or exisiting rolling stock that IR uses can take that to 200 km/hr once they build the right track ?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 20 Apr 2017 15:01

EMU trainsets per twitter.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 20 Apr 2017 15:24

Supratik wrote:EMU trainsets per twitter.


Any info on which ones?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 20 Apr 2017 16:55

Nope. They are right now quite confused as to what to do given the various proposals. The last train set tender had to be cancelled as the order was too less. I see a lot of confusion regarding rolling stock.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 20 Apr 2017 17:05

I wish we replace all rajdhanis and durantos with something like Talgo or pendolinos. The companies will have enough incentive to even invest in Indian plants.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 20 Apr 2017 17:13

rajdhanis beneath the higher speed are basically same underlying tech as mid 90s. heavy, rugged .... no one knows how Talgo/HSR types with aerospace grade finish and tolerances will be durable and reliable in the kind of tracks we have and weather conditions. suppose the AC system packs up frequently in the heat or wear and tear of bogies is much more. a few short trials can never prove it. parts will be more expensive and a local making of consumables and replaceables will need to be done - IR will need to run with the mentality of a airline - top notch parts, top notch inspections / boroscopes, keeping to very strict schedules of repair and downtime .... just general hammering with a mallet and letting it go will not work. a HSR train is as delicate and high strung a beast as 737. this needs a quantum change in mindset and training of IR field staff and depot staff to make them on par with airline MRO technicians. all of this needs time, training, planning, money . just importing a few showpiece trainsets is not a "solution" . our tfta imported metro trains run well because they are built on tfta lines, have proper depots and their own independent staff on the technical side. and OEM would have properly trained them.

this is one area where the IAs patented summer, winter, monsoon , sea level and siachen trials are needed and once we prove a couple of vendors then order big and move enmasse with speed. this will make the OEM setup proper assembly, TOT, local parts and MRO in india. else it will be like the "hard rock saar" situation in blr metro where a TBM head breaks and people send for a spare to Italy which takes 9 months to our door :roll:

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 20 Apr 2017 17:28

Mumbai Ah'bad HSR line is elevated except for the small length under sea in Mumbai. So it will be TFTA only. For semi HSR, I think Talgo conducted enough trials, including all the way from Delhi to Mumbai and saw news that said we are planning to lease few Talgos as well.
We need bigger network and larger repository of semi-HSR. Or else we'll be left with high end shinkansens and low end existing trains. One more disadvantage of loco hauled trains is longer acceleration and breaking time, lower speeds in curves because tilting tech can't be used. Talgo completed Delhi Mumbai run 4 hours shorter than rajdhani. With improved tracks and signaling, am sure it could have reached faster.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 20 Apr 2017 18:30

Also we need enough orders to do TOT or Make in India if we want to step into next gen rail tech like the Chinese.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sicanta » 20 Apr 2017 18:55

But can talgo carry enough number of passengers? A typical rajdhani with 18 coaches (plus 2 eog) can carry around 1100 paassengers.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 20 Apr 2017 20:17

A talgoish train will need a lot more coaches as their coaches are short.

Small penny pkt wont work. We need to decide on 2 vendors in jv with local partners for semi hsr and move big.

In parallel retire all old icf coaches and replace with rajdhani design coaches both ac and non ac which are lighter stronger and have big windows and better bathrooms

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 20 Apr 2017 20:27

Considering the life span of coaches, and the size of economy ours will be, we really need to do away with non-ac coaches across the board. It's a real punishment to travel in these heat ovens when temperatures in most part of India is above 40 for months.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Gagan » 20 Apr 2017 20:30

Singha ji
The various Metros in india do use uber maintenance and have very good maintenance facilities - the only exception is the Kolkata metro, which parallels pyongyang metro onlee.

These HSRs can be like the metro system - run by a separate entity, either completely private or a separate entity with a separate budget within the IR Fold.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 21 Apr 2017 00:30

non-AC is for rural folks and UP, BH,WB,OR, NE folks migrating. Plus purchasing power. ICF coaches are not going to be produced after 2017 - all LHB.
The transition to relatively modern railway will take at least 20 yrs i.e. 2035.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 21 Apr 2017 10:10

yes I think around 60000 ICF coaches will need to be replaced which will surely take 20 yrs.

I do think some ways and means should be found to make all trains AC .... for electric trains instead of running individual (diesel?) generators in each coach can some means be found to get the power from engine pantograph? and for diesel trains maybe a rajdhani type power car at one end to supply the ACs of each coach....even the basic general bodies can be made AC...atleast make half the coaches AC instead of the usual 3-4 and let people migrate up.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vipins » 21 Apr 2017 21:56

Humsafar_Express
Soon all AC trains will be covering all major routes.
Humsafar train is a fully Air Conditioned 3 AC service having facility GPS based Passenger Information System, Passenger announcement System, fire and smoke detection and suppression system, CCTVs, comfortable seats, mobile and laptop charging points, integrated Braille display, LCD display above compartment doors in the aisle, Fire retardant curtains, etc.

12595/12596 Gorakhpur - Anand Vihar Terminal (Via Basti)
12571/12572 Gorakhpur - Anand Vihar Terminal (Via Barhni)
12503/12504 Bangalore Cantonment–Kamakhya (Weekly)
14715/14716 Sri Ganganagar–Tiruchirappalli (Weekly)
19423/19424 Ahmedabad - Chennai Central (Weekly)
22317/22318 Sealdah - Jammu Tawi (Weekly)
22705/22706 Tirupati - Jammu Tawi (Weekly)
22833/22834 Bhubaneswar - Krishnarajapuram (Weekly)
22867/22868 Durg - Hazrat Nizamuddin (Bi-Weekly)
22887/22888 Howrah - Yesvantpur (Weekly)
22913/22914 Bandra T. - Patna (Weekly)
19429/19430 Ahmedabad - New Delhi (Tri-Weekly)

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 21 Apr 2017 23:14


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Rahul M » 21 Apr 2017 23:51

article is by former rail-min from TMC.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sicanta » 22 Apr 2017 12:49

Karthik S wrote:Considering the life span of coaches, and the size of economy ours will be, we really need to do away with non-ac coaches across the board. It's a real punishment to travel in these heat ovens when temperatures in most part of India is above 40 for months.


ट्रेनों से हटेंगे AC-2 कोच, बेसिक किराए में 15% तक बढ़ोतरी


http://www.livehindustan.com/news/busin ... 94233.html

AC2 to be replaced with ac3 slowly (will be done where these coaches usually run empty), basic fare may see 15% increase, flexi fare in shatabdi, rajdhani may be taken back

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arshyam » 22 Apr 2017 13:03

^^ That's just stupid. IR will lose more pax to the airlines as 2AC fares are cheaper than airline fares and offer comfortable travel. And 2AC coaches are also well patronized, why remove them? People who can afford 2AC fares will not shift to the more crowded 3AC coaches - they'll simply pay a little extra and fly. I'd rather they get rid of 1AC coaches - they don't make up the cost given most 1AC pax are freeloading politicians and officials.

I think that news is just DDM in action.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sicanta » 22 Apr 2017 13:20

No, I remember an IR report being quoted a lot which said ki AC 2 is loss making coach, some Rs 500 crore loss last year or so. AC 3 is the only profit making one and there is always a long waiting list running into 100's. These coaches won't run empty if more are added.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 22 Apr 2017 15:35

the 1AC will be even more loss making....due to freebie tickets....non AC 2nd class and general coaches are all loss making due to low fares. entire passenger side of IR is lossing making.

its better that 2AC fares be raised if required to break even as imo its a workable and core offering for middle and upper middle class for long distance travel - a 500 mil strong market. they will also spend more on catered food than non AC/general who will buy cheaper outside or pack their own grub. maybe a chargeble wifi with basic and premium levels, vending machines for water/cold drinks can be carried on board , rentable tablets loaded with legal movies etc can be tried out.

new gen materials, interiors on par with latest trends can improve the interior space and utility.

once the speeds improve , 2 AC can become viable vs planes again. right now even if train is perfect the slow speed make time pressed travellers (less PTO) go by air.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vasu raya » 22 Apr 2017 20:59

Let me take a roundabout route here, for sat ground transportation they have devised a robust Faraday's cage to protect the electronics as noted here,

https://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7248&start=1000&sid=a7fcdcca31f106ff0cce9e0f5d3f53d1&sid=a7fcdcca31f106ff0cce9e0f5d3f53d1#p2146283

and for the same reason am thinking they might have done similar design to the bogies transporting rail mobile Agni missiles, maybe they are being phased out now, yet if there is such a Faraday cage design existing for rail bogies, can they not adopt it for flat bed cars to enable Ro-Ro transportation without worrying about having less clearance from overhead Electric lines? all to save Delhi from smog :P

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Rishirishi » 23 Apr 2017 03:40

arshyam wrote:^^ That's just stupid. IR will lose more pax to the airlines as 2AC fares are cheaper than airline fares and offer comfortable travel. And 2AC coaches are also well patronized, why remove them? People who can afford 2AC fares will not shift to the more crowded 3AC coaches - they'll simply pay a little extra and fly. I'd rather they get rid of 1AC coaches - they don't make up the cost given most 1AC pax are freeloading politicians and officials.

I think that news is just DDM in action.


Putting an AC in the train adds very little cost. All 3tier should be converted to AC 3 tier.

All trains should be converted to AC.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 23 Apr 2017 09:47

Rishirishi wrote:Putting an AC in the train adds very little cost.


What about operating expenses?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby jamwal » 23 Apr 2017 10:48

If 2 AC is being removed, then it leaves very little incentive for me to use a train. Almost everyone in my family circle uses 2AC by preference and 3AC only if 2ac is not available. Otherwise, rather take a flight.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sicanta » 23 Apr 2017 10:52

jamwal wrote:If 2 AC is being removed, then it leaves very little incentive for me to use a train. Almost everyone in my family circle uses 2AC by preference and 3AC only if 2ac is not available. Otherwise, rather take a flight.


They are not going to remove these coaches from rajdhani, premier trains or any route where there is enough demand. Like ahmedabad mumbai.

.....................................................................................................................................................

Centre plans Rs 37,500 cr European-style superfast suburban train network

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 637_1.html
RRTS has three prioritised corridors -- Delhi-Ghaziabad-Meerut (90 km), Delhi-Gurugram-Rewari-Alwar (180 km) and Delhi-Sonepat-Panipat (111 km).

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 23 Apr 2017 10:57

This should be done in other big cities too, Mumbai, Bang, Chennai in parallel.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arshyam » 23 Apr 2017 13:52

Sicanta wrote:No, I remember an IR report being quoted a lot which said ki AC 2 is loss making coach, some Rs 500 crore loss last year or so. AC 3 is the only profit making one and there is always a long waiting list running into 100's. These coaches won't run empty if more are added.

Interesting, can you share a link?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby sanjayc » 23 Apr 2017 14:04


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sicanta » 23 Apr 2017 14:18

arshyam wrote:
Sicanta wrote:No, I remember an IR report being quoted a lot which said ki AC 2 is loss making coach, some Rs 500 crore loss last year or so. AC 3 is the only profit making one and there is always a long waiting list running into 100's. These coaches won't run empty if more are added.

Interesting, can you share a link?


I think this is the one. And it from Cag, not IR as i mentioned before.

http://www.cag.gov.in/content/report-37 ... government

Page number 12 in the report. AC 1 - 70 crore loss, 2 - 495 crore loss, 3 - 880 crore profit. Figures for other coaches also given.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 23 Apr 2017 14:35

RO Ro is already there for konkan railway but surprisingly not there for nationwide. I wonder where the drivers sleep and eat though?

should be plenty cheaper to have core ro ro routes and couple 100km at drive both ends . put 3AC coaches for drivers and helpers and supply food at main stations. but rules regarding commerce, state octroi etc might have held back...with GST and digitization might be easier. earlier each state got its cut on the route.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arshyam » 23 Apr 2017 14:51

Sicanta-ji, thanks. Will take a look.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 23 Apr 2017 14:58

Karthik S wrote:This should be done in other big cities too, Mumbai, Bang, Chennai in parallel.


Yes. Mumbai-Pune, Bangalore-Mysore come to mind..

Regarding the AC2 coaches, why not increase the fares to wipe out under recovery?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sachin » 23 Apr 2017 16:03

Sicanta wrote:AC 3 is the only profit making one and there is always a long waiting list running into 100's. These coaches won't run empty if more are added.

I feel that 3A coaches has the bare minimum standards of a railway coach which I have seen in many other places. To quote Sashi Tharoor, the other classes (SL, 2S) etc. are very much cattle class. Today there are a large number of people who are willing to switch over to 3rd AC, provided they get accomodation there. I feel that IR should slowly bring in more 3A coaches, and encourage more people to use it. This would be a success especially in long distance trains (the SL coaches of such trains, are generally mis-used by the Season Ticket/pass holders etc. who just barge in and occupy the seats). IR already has an option for automatic upgrade, so with such a scheme even the 2A coaches would see good occupancy. 1st AC coaches, I feel are just a historical relic. And any way, in many trains 1st AC is now a "composite coach". One part 1st AC, and the next half is 2AC.

Rishirishi wrote:Putting an AC in the train adds very little cost. All 3tier should be converted to AC 3 tier.

Building costs may be less, but operating costs are huge. On an average IR only gets around 51-55% of the operating cost out of the ticket money. The rest of the expenses are cross subsidised by freight charges.

Singha wrote:RO Ro is already there for konkan railway but surprisingly not there for nationwide. I wonder where the drivers sleep and eat though?

Such trains would have normal Sleeper coach attached to it. The truck driver & crew are supposed to camp there. But I have also heard that many of them prefer to remain inside the trucks. Many of these trucks also have some a small kitchen setup stocked inside.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 23 Apr 2017 16:13

what is the diff between 3AC and garib rath? is garib road just a train where all the coaches are 3AC?

I agree the non-AC sleeper class is unbearable in summer heat, overcrowded and just a suffering to all. people do not travel on trains every week. the poor working in other parts of the country go back home once a year only...or once in 9 months...they dont work they dont earn, unlike us pto holders. so for that 1 trip dont think they will mind paying a bit more if 3AC seats are increased.

we transitioned from wooden seats to padded seats at one time . now its time to move enmasse to AC.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Ankar » 23 Apr 2017 16:58

Singha wrote:what is the diff between 3AC and garib rath? is garib road just a train where all the coaches are 3AC?


An extra berth on the side in garib rath.
Also you don't get complementary bedroll in garib rath, although you can get a rewashed bedroll kit for Rs. 25.

Ticket price of 3AC is ~50% more than garib rath

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby SBajwa » 24 Apr 2017 19:37

What is the difference between 3AC and 2AC?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 24 Apr 2017 19:41

SBajwa wrote:What is the difference between 3AC and 2AC?


3 berths and 2 berths sir.


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