Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4832
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 04 Aug 2017 10:10

niran wrote:
Kashi wrote:
If the land has been all acquired and the construction ready to begin at immediate notice, then a 4 year timeline could be reasonable.

land acquisition complete, the sticking point was terminus station in Mumbai Mah wanted it for their metro the solution Shinakesen underground Metro on the bridge a Mall with parking on the ground


You sure LA is done already? IIRC it started this year and will be done by next year. Actual construction will begin late 2018.

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3351
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 04 Aug 2017 10:11

Karthik S wrote:Underground section is only 21 KM of the 508 KM section. LA will be done by next year end when the actual construction is said to start. So 4+ years till 2022 is achievable considering it's the Japanese we are talking about.


When I say earthquake-proof measures it's not just for the underground part. It means that the pillars, support etc must be engineered to withstand frequent earthquakes (deep foundations, movable/sliding supports in the foundation etc.). Plus, the signalling systems and track engineering that will allow the trains to safely come to a stop in time.

Shinkansen tracks will need to be exceptionally straight- high speed trains do not appreciate frequent sharp curves and bends- and exceptionally flat- even minor deviations will be amplified at high speeds. Thus, Land acquisition is extremely important.

niran wrote:land acquisition complete, the sticking point was terminus station in Mumbai Mah wanted it for their metro the solution Shinakesen underground Metro on the bridge a Mall with parking on the ground


Then 4 years seem reasonable, though still ambitious I think. After all this will be our first such implementation.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4832
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 04 Aug 2017 10:13

Kashi wrote:
Karthik S wrote:Underground section is only 21 KM of the 508 KM section. LA will be done by next year end when the actual construction is said to start. So 4+ years till 2022 is achievable considering it's the Japanese we are talking about.


When I say earthquake-proof measures it's not just for the underground part. It means that the pillars, support etc must be engineered to withstand frequent earthquakes (deep foundations, movable/sliding supports in the foundation etc.). Plus, the signalling systems and track engineering that will allow the trains to safely come to a stop in time.

Shinkansen tracks will need to be exceptionally straight- high speed trains do not appreciate frequent sharp curves and bends- and exceptionally flat- even minor deviations will be amplified at high speeds. Thus, Land acquisition is extremely important.



I was referring to Niran sir's point about Japanese underground taking 6 7 times longer construction time.

niran
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5391
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 16:01

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby niran » 04 Aug 2017 10:30

Karthik S wrote:
I was referring to Niran sir's point about Japanese underground taking 6 7 times longer construction time.

oops! misunderstanding it seems, mine underground means structures built underground see overground track will need at least 20 to 40 meter underground structure in India, in Japan minimum is 50meter support underground and strengthening of surrounding soils which takes longer.

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3351
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 04 Aug 2017 11:26

Karthik S wrote:I was referring to Niran sir's point about Japanese underground taking 6 7 times longer construction time.


Actually all Shinkansen network is constructed above ground, almost entirely on the elevated tracks, except where tunnelling is inevitable. Even this construction takes a long time.

For instance, The Kyushu Shinkansen started construction in 1991- 127 km of the route opened in 2004 and another 130 km in 2011.

Taiwan HSR based on Shinkansen technology started construction in March 2000 and opened in January 2007, the route length was about 314 km.

The most recent Hokuriku Shinkansen extension from Kanazawa to Tsuruga, a track of 113 km, was approved in 2012 and will be completed only by 2022. The extension to Osaka is not expected to be ready before 2030.

Which is why I think that a four year timeline for 500 km project is a little ambitious.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4832
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 04 Aug 2017 11:41

Kashi wrote:
Karthik S wrote:I was referring to Niran sir's point about Japanese underground taking 6 7 times longer construction time.


Actually all Shinkansen network is constructed above ground, almost entirely on the elevated tracks, except where tunnelling is inevitable. Even this construction takes a long time.

For instance, The Kyushu Shinkansen started construction in 1991- 127 km of the route opened in 2004 and another 130 km in 2011.

Taiwan HSR based on Shinkansen technology started construction in March 2000 and opened in January 2007, the route length was about 314 km.

The most recent Hokuriku Shinkansen extension from Kanazawa to Tsuruga, a track of 113 km, was approved in 2012 and will be completed only by 2022. The extension to Osaka is not expected to be ready before 2030.

Which is why I think that a four year timeline for 500 km project is a little ambitious.


This is the Jica report.

http://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/files/000202923.pdf

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3351
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 04 Aug 2017 11:51

Yes, JICA and GoI seem to agree that they'll be able to operationalise the network by 2023 (now 2022).

Since, previous networks took much longer to become operational, I was just wondering if this timeline is a little ambitious. But if they have done a detailed study and are confident, then it's a good thing. I am just curious as to how will they go about it.

nash
BRFite
Posts: 823
Joined: 08 Aug 2008 16:48

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby nash » 05 Aug 2017 11:46

http://energy.economictimes.indiatimes. ... n/59916669

Indian Railways signs first EPC contract to speed up electrification
The contract valuing Rs 1,050 crore for electrification of 781 route kilometres (RKM) was awarded by Central Organisation for Railway Electrification (CORE) and Konkan Railways.

Dipanker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3021
Joined: 14 May 2002 11:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Dipanker » 08 Aug 2017 08:00

Subsidise rail losses, PMO tells Finance Ministry

The Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) has directed the Ministry of Finance to fund the losses incurred by the railways in operating non-profitable trains on strategic lines and backward areas.

The directive ends a tussle that began after the merger of the Railway and Union Budgets, as the Finance Ministry discontinued the practice of providing annual subsidy to the railways.

At a meeting held last month, the PMO directed the Finance Ministry to reimburse the losses incurred on strategic rail lines discontinued following the merger of the Budgets, said a senior Ministry of Railways official, who didn’t wish to be identified.

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4832
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 10 Aug 2017 17:45

First bullet train of India between Ahmedabad and Mumbai closer to reality now; know details
Taking India's first bullet train closer to reality, work on the Mumbai-Ahmedabad project will commence soon, with the first tranche of $1 billion from a total loan of about $14 billion to be released during the visit of Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to the country on September 12-14.
bullet train, bullet train india, india, Ahmedabad, mumbai, bullet train mumbai, bullet train ahmedabad, first bullet train details, narendra modi, india, india news, financial express The foundation ceremony of the project will be laid by Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Abe near Ahmedabad on September 13, official sources said.
Taking India’s first bullet train closer to reality, work on the Mumbai-Ahmedabad project will commence soon, with the first tranche of $1 billion from a total loan of about $14 billion to be released during the visit of Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to the country on September 12-14. The $17-billion high-speed railway line of 508 km, which will be built on Japan’s Shinkansen technology, is expected to be operational by 2022-23, India’s 75th year of independence.
The initial agreement on the project was signed between India and Japan during Abe’s last visit to India in December 2015. The foundation ceremony of the project will be laid by Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Abe near Ahmedabad on September 13, official sources said.
Of the project cost of Rs 1,10,000 crore, Rs 88,000 crore will come from Japan as a 50-year soft loan at a benign interest rate of 0.1%. The amount to be repaid is just Rs 90,500 crore. The initial disbursal of $1 billion will be used to give compensation for land, set up a training institute in Ahmedabad and for some construction-related activities.
In the meantime, Japan will train 300 officers and 4,000 staff of Indian Railways for the smooth running of the high-speed trains. Around 137 officers have already been trained by Japanese experts, the sources added. The railways has already created the National High Speed Rail Corporation to execute the project.
At present, an aerial survey done earlier is being analysed and alignment of the route is being finalised. The process of land acquisition will start soon though most of the Mumbai-Ahmedabad stretch will run on government land.

While the bullet train will be built with the Japanese technology, some of the accessories will be manufactured under the ‘Make in India’ programme, a plan which is expected to create jobs and bring up ancillary companies. The Confederation of Indian Industry and the department of industrial policy and promotion have held one workshop relating to tracks through video conferencing with industry representatives from both countries recently. Another on rolling stock is slated to be organised to explore ways to blend the programme with Make in India.


http://www.financialexpress.com/india-n ... ls/801621/

Moving at good pace. Let's work on other lines soon please.

Sicanta
BRFite
Posts: 1117
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 11:16

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sicanta » 19 Aug 2017 20:05

Puri-Haridwar-Kalinga Utkal Express Derails In UP's Muzaffarnagar, Several Injured

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 134248.cms?

Yet another accident in NR zone, Nearly always either that or NCR in UP. News channels reporting 24 dead and many more injured

Lilo
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4060
Joined: 23 Jun 2007 09:08

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Lilo » 19 Aug 2017 20:18

The derailment of the train bound to Haridwar happened near Muzaffarnagar in Western UP.

Image
Image
X-post from Levant thread.
Singha wrote:http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2017/08/aqap-publishes-guide-for-derailing-trains-in-the-us-europe.php

aq publishes a note on how to derail trains
Last edited by Lilo on 19 Aug 2017 20:27, edited 1 time in total.

Sicanta
BRFite
Posts: 1117
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 11:16

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sicanta » 19 Aug 2017 20:25

kvjayan wrote:
According to Chindu:

"Reports say that six dead bodies have been taken out, and twenty injured till now. Derailment apparently due to application of emergency break immediately after the train crossing Khatauli station."

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19300
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama July 14th 2017

Postby chetak » 20 Aug 2017 01:51

IndraD wrote:10 killed, 30 hurt so far...


now showing 23 killed and 60+ injured.

IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6932
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama July 14th 2017

Postby IndraD » 20 Aug 2017 02:58

some channels reporting train track was cut with gas cutter https://twitter.com/SirJadejaaaa/status ... 5083311105

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19300
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama July 14th 2017

Postby chetak » 20 Aug 2017 04:16

IndraD wrote:some channels reporting train track was cut with gas cutter https://twitter.com/SirJadejaaaa/status ... 5083311105


There are multiple TV reports that railway departmental work was going on at and also near the accident site and this work was on for quite some time.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19300
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama July 14th 2017

Postby chetak » 20 Aug 2017 06:42

chetak wrote:
IndraD wrote:some channels reporting train track was cut with gas cutter https://twitter.com/SirJadejaaaa/status ... 5083311105


There are multiple TV reports that railway departmental work was going on at and also near the accident site and this work was on for quite some time.




http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/railway-track-was-under-repair-but-utkal-express-train-driver-was-not-informed-preliminary-probe-into-muzaffarnagar-accident-finds/story-nwpP2fGajUlYJHWiSqAL2O.html

Railway track was under repair but Utkal Express train driver was not informed, preliminary probe finds
According to initial findings, at least 15 metres of the track had been removed for repair works at the time of the accident on Saturday evening.

arshyam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3304
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama July 14th 2017

Postby arshyam » 20 Aug 2017 07:40

^^ If true, that's serious negligence. The drivers usually gets a list of caution orders when he starts the route and he has to sign his acceptance of the list. The list is to be prepared by the controller of that track section and presumably vetted by multiple people. The drivers are usually certified for that track section (road learning in IR parlance) and would be aware of multiple-day maintenance work. Lastly, if the track is being removed for work, the preceding signal should have been at danger and the ones prior to that at caution (orange) and double yellow (if the section uses MACL), not to mention red-flags on the track just before the section as a last resort.

These news reports indicate that none of these procedures were followed, and frankly, it sounds too far fetched. Need more details - Sachin saar, any thoughts?

pandyan
BRFite
Posts: 366
Joined: 31 Jul 2006 05:12

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama July 14th 2017

Postby pandyan » 20 Aug 2017 08:46

chetak wrote:
chetak wrote:
There are multiple TV reports that railway departmental work was going on at and also near the accident site and this work was on for quite some time.




http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/railway-track-was-under-repair-but-utkal-express-train-driver-was-not-informed-preliminary-probe-into-muzaffarnagar-accident-finds/story-nwpP2fGajUlYJHWiSqAL2O.html

Railway track was under repair but Utkal Express train driver was not informed, preliminary probe finds
According to initial findings, at least 15 metres of the track had been removed for repair works at the time of the accident on Saturday evening.

This doesn't make sense. Train moves in a preconfigured route and driver can cannot take an alternate route. Only thing he could do is stop it. The question is why was the train allowed to go on that track and why was signaling/routing not done properly

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19300
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama July 14th 2017

Postby chetak » 20 Aug 2017 08:59

pandyan wrote:

This doesn't make sense. Train moves in a preconfigured route and driver can cannot take an alternate route. Only thing he could do is stop it. The question is why was the train allowed to go on that track and why was signaling/routing not done properly


read the link, saar.

More over, when recruitment is tied to mandal bandal, caste and minorities quota, then, the so called human errors tend to pile up, resulting in an accident just as this one.

what stopped anyone from informing stations up and down the line that repairs were in progress?? or is it just another "blow to Modi"??

so many lives meaninglessly extinguished and so many families left without support because some station staff ahole was asleep at the wheel?? The work gang also did not keep a watch and wave a red flag to warn the driver.

It's culpable homicide, not amounting to murder, pure and simple.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7409
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama July 14th 2017

Postby Sachin » 20 Aug 2017 13:47

arshyam wrote:If true, that's serious negligence. The drivers usually gets a list of caution orders when he starts the route and he has to sign his acceptance of the list. The list is to be prepared by the controller of that track section and presumably vetted by multiple people
....
These news reports indicate that none of these procedures were followed, and frankly, it sounds too far fetched. Need more details - Sachin saar, any thoughts?

In this incident I feel there is much more than what meet's the eye. It is not the first time Railways have done major track over-hauling work, and even in this particular section such works would have happened before. And none in the Permanent Way or Section controlling jobs would be unaware of it. Relaying of tracks is not an activity which can be done in a jiffy. This is a planned activity which can span many hours, or many days. The first question would be? Was this train the first one to enter the block section before or after the scheduled maintenance activities?

If there is a maintenance activity of this nature is planned, it would certainly be informed to all concerned people. Especially when it is to be done during night hours. I find it surprising that "caution orders" were not given to the driver & the guard of the train. Generally they are issued from a station where the train last stopped. If that is far away (generally happens in case of Express/mail trains), then even such trains are halted at a station just before the maintenance area, and the "caution orders" are issued. The driver & guard actually counter sign the "caution order" and accept it. One copy would be retained by the station master who issued the "caution orders". None of them can lie on this part.

Next well ahead of the maintenance area, there would be the "Caution boards" (a triangle board with the permitted speed clearly indicated), and in case of multiple tracks an arrow board indicating for which track the caution board applies. Even when this board is sighted as a surprise, the driver would still have time to slow down. Off course he would make a big fuss of it, and may even formally lodge a compliant. There would be "caution termination" boards in the area at a distance, so that the driver can pick up speed after the last vehicle has crossed the maintenance area ("T/P", "T/G" - yellow round boards).

I find this incident to be still a case of sabotage:-
1. The local SM seems to be unaware of this maintenance activity. Heck, there would be a large number of labourers involved in this activity. Many of them rely on trains to reach the maintenance area. They just dont land up in their own cars and bikes, and start the repair work without telling any body.
2. The "caution orders" were not issued to the Express train. It requires many people to make a mistake on this one. These are given to the guard & the driver, and counter signed copies to be retained by the SM. Three people have to make a mistake for this to fail. Highly improbable.
3. No "caution boards" placed ahead of the maintenance area. Again, chances of this are very low. If this is not done, there is a risk of a train running over the maintenance crew themselves. So this is also done religiously. Atleast for their own personal safety, the maintenance workers would do this.
4. A probability I can see is:-
a) There was a scheduled maintenance activity in that area. Because the track repair equipment was still there.
b) The maintenance activity was completed and formally communicated to the IR top brass. Hence the issuing of caution orders were stopped.
c) Since the maintenance activity was formally completed, the caution boards were also removed. The train's driver drove on with an impression that every thing was fine.
d) The work was incomplete, or there were miscreantes who used the railway equipment to sabotage the tracks.

PS: If the purpose of this tragedy was to have another #BlowToYogi; then it is a futile attempt. IR is a central government body, and states generally do not have any say in their day to day operations. And here again, Yogi has done his best for medical help to reach the place quickly. He has also deputed 1-2 ministers to over see the relief work.

shravan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2198
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 00:08

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby shravan » 20 Aug 2017 17:55

Utkal Express derailment: Station superintendent says he was not aware that repair work was in progress on the track; toll reaches 24.
https://twitter.com/TOICitiesNews/statu ... 5310309377

Sicanta
BRFite
Posts: 1117
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 11:16

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama July 14th 2017

Postby Sicanta » 20 Aug 2017 20:08

Sachin wrote:d) The work was incomplete, or there were miscreantes who used the railway equipment to sabotage the tracks.

PS: If the purpose of this tragedy was to have another #BlowToYogi; then it is a futile attempt. IR is a central government body, and states generally do not have any say in their day to day operations. And here again, Yogi has done his best for medical help to reach the place quickly. He has also deputed 1-2 ministers to over see the relief work.


There was report that maintanence crew was at work when the train arrived, and they ran for their lives when they saw the train approaching.

And I am sorry to say that I dont find any of this far fetched. NR is famous for lax standards. Just few weeks back, Lucknow - Mumbai AC express derailed at Unnao station beween lucknow and kanpur due to faulty tracks. No deaths since the train was travelling slowly and had LHB coaches. Now, after the tracks were repaired, another accident occurred in the same place just a week later because the repair work had not been undertaken properly. Then there's another incident where janta express derailed in 2015 because the LP overshot signal in freaking daylight. And there are countless other examples. And the issue here is usually that no strict action is undertaken against senior official so no incentive to do their job properly.

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6167
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 20 Aug 2017 20:19

Yes, Prabhu seems lax in welding the danda. Why are most accidents happening in western UP/UP? Overstretched?

Sicanta
BRFite
Posts: 1117
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 11:16

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sicanta » 20 Aug 2017 20:36

Overstretched and creaking at seams infrastructure. Finally for first time after since 1970 mid, Lucknow station RRI is being upgraded. Tender has been put out just because of a close shave there like the one at Itarsi which shut down major portion of traffic.

रेल हादसा: ट्रैक ठीक कर रहे गैंगमैन, लोहार फरार

http://navbharattimes.indiatimes.com/st ... agesharing

खतौली में जिस जगह शनिवार को रेल हादसा हुआ, वहां करीब ढाई महीने पहले 11 जून को भी ट्रैक क्षतिग्रस्त हुआ था। तब भी अफसरों की लापरवाही के यहां से कई ट्रेन रात में उसी ट्रेक से गुजरती रही थीं, गमीनत रही थी कि तब कोई हादसा नहीं हुआ था।


The place where accident took place - the track had been damaged on june 11 before. But due to sheer negligence, trains crossed it the entire night but luckily resulted in no accident.

Sicanta
BRFite
Posts: 1117
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 11:16

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sicanta » 20 Aug 2017 20:44

BTW, though it has been mentioned many a times that both the major routes are over saturated - one of the reason why no new train has been given fron delhi to east and NE india for a while now except 1-2 to tripura and Naharlagun in Arunanchal, Railway state minister Manoj sinha seems to be having no problems in flagging off new trains every 2nd-3rd month from his constituency Ghazipur. He doesnt seem to me as a proper deputy in an important ministry.
Last edited by Sicanta on 20 Aug 2017 21:03, edited 1 time in total.

arshyam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3304
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: The Great Indian Political Drama July 14th 2017

Postby arshyam » 20 Aug 2017 20:47

Sachin wrote:
arshyam wrote:If true, that's serious negligence. The drivers usually gets a list of caution orders when he starts the route and he has to sign his acceptance of the list. The list is to be prepared by the controller of that track section and presumably vetted by multiple people
....
These news reports indicate that none of these procedures were followed, and frankly, it sounds too far fetched. Need more details - Sachin saar, any thoughts?

In this incident I feel there is much more than what meet's the eye. It is not the first time Railways have done major track over-hauling work, and even in this particular section such works would have happened before. And none in the Permanent Way or Section controlling jobs would be unaware of it. Relaying of tracks is not an activity which can be done in a jiffy. This is a planned activity which can span many hours, or many days. The first question would be? Was this train the first one to enter the block section before or after the scheduled maintenance activities?

If there is a maintenance activity of this nature is planned, it would certainly be informed to all concerned people. Especially when it is to be done during night hours. I find it surprising that "caution orders" were not given to the driver & the guard of the train. Generally they are issued from a station where the train last stopped. If that is far away (generally happens in case of Express/mail trains), then even such trains are halted at a station just before the maintenance area, and the "caution orders" are issued. The driver & guard actually counter sign the "caution order" and accept it. One copy would be retained by the station master who issued the "caution orders". None of them can lie on this part.

Next well ahead of the maintenance area, there would be the "Caution boards" (a triangle board with the permitted speed clearly indicated), and in case of multiple tracks an arrow board indicating for which track the caution board applies. Even when this board is sighted as a surprise, the driver would still have time to slow down. Off course he would make a big fuss of it, and may even formally lodge a compliant. There would be "caution termination" boards in the area at a distance, so that the driver can pick up speed after the last vehicle has crossed the maintenance area ("T/P", "T/G" - yellow round boards).

I find this incident to be still a case of sabotage:-
1. The local SM seems to be unaware of this maintenance activity. Heck, there would be a large number of labourers involved in this activity. Many of them rely on trains to reach the maintenance area. They just dont land up in their own cars and bikes, and start the repair work without telling any body.
2. The "caution orders" were not issued to the Express train. It requires many people to make a mistake on this one. These are given to the guard & the driver, and counter signed copies to be retained by the SM. Three people have to make a mistake for this to fail. Highly improbable.
3. No "caution boards" placed ahead of the maintenance area. Again, chances of this are very low. If this is not done, there is a risk of a train running over the maintenance crew themselves. So this is also done religiously. Atleast for their own personal safety, the maintenance workers would do this.
4. A probability I can see is:-
a) There was a scheduled maintenance activity in that area. Because the track repair equipment was still there.
b) The maintenance activity was completed and formally communicated to the IR top brass. Hence the issuing of caution orders were stopped.
c) Since the maintenance activity was formally completed, the caution boards were also removed. The train's driver drove on with an impression that every thing was fine.
d) The work was incomplete, or there were miscreantes who used the railway equipment to sabotage the tracks.

Thanks saar. Too many failures to make sense, we need to wait for the full report I guess. NR surely is over-stretched, but gangmen and repair crew aren't so careless as it's their lives. The sabotage angle cannot be ruled out. Also, looks like this is a single line in the process of being doubled (per G, the double electrified track stops at Meerut), so the caution signs will have to be put on both sides and SMs on both sides will need to be aware. The media reports talk about the SSP of (presumably?) Khatauli station, wonder what the Meerut SSP/SM will say about it. Also the report is interesting - the SSP simply said he is not aware of any repairs, as opposed to saying something like "repairs were reported as complete" which any career minded official will be quick to communicate to simply save his ass.

Sicanta
BRFite
Posts: 1117
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 11:16

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sicanta » 20 Aug 2017 21:15

As per ETV, preliminary report has blamed P-WAY (permanent way) department for accident. JE and senior section engineer have been suspended while DRM NR Delhi and GM NR have been asked to not report to work.

manjgu
BRFite
Posts: 1874
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby manjgu » 20 Aug 2017 21:20

its not a case of sabotage..the workers left the work unfinished...nobody would bring generators, welding equipment , etc etc to the accident site.. if motive is just to derail.

Sicanta
BRFite
Posts: 1117
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 11:16

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sicanta » 20 Aug 2017 21:30

Total 4 suspended including Chief Engineer, 1 transferred and apart from Drm Delhi division NR and GM NR, Member Engineering Railway board also sent on leave

Sicanta
BRFite
Posts: 1117
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 11:16

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sicanta » 20 Aug 2017 21:39

कुछ दिन पहले की ही बात है जब ग्वालियर में शताब्दी एक्सप्रेस को गलत कॉशन आर्डर दे दिए गया था और 30 कि.मी. / घंटा के कॉशन आर्डर पर ट्रेन को 100 कि.मी. / घंटा की रफ़्तार से अगला स्टेशन पार करा दिआ गया था


Few days back, Bhopal Shatabdi was given wrong caution orders at Gwalior

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6167
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 20 Aug 2017 22:34

They should stop any additional trains in Del-How and Del-Mum routes till the DFCs and triple/quad is done. Did Prabhu fire anyone before? If he did not he gave them opportunity for chalta hai.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19300
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 21 Aug 2017 09:26

Sicanta wrote:Total 4 suspended including Chief Engineer, 1 transferred and apart from Drm Delhi division NR and GM NR, Member Engineering Railway board also sent on leave


http://www.dailypioneer.com/top-stories ... thers.html

UTKAL DERAILMENT: ACTION TAKEN AGAINST SECY-RANK OFFICIAL, 7 OTHERS

Sunday, 20 August 2017 New Delhi

Utkal derailment: Action taken against Secy-rank official, 7 others
Cracking the whip over Utkal derailment, the Railways tonight sent on leave its three top officials, including a secretary-level Railway Board official, suspended four officers and transfered one.

Member (Engineering) in the Railway Board, Northern Railway General Manager and Divisional Regional Manager (Delhi) have been sent on leave in the wake of the derailment in Muzaffarnagar district of Uttar Pradesh, the Railways said.

The Railways also suspended four of its officials -- Senior Divisional Engineer, Assistant Engineer, a Senior Section Engineer (Permanent Way), responsible for track maintenance and a Junior Engineer.

Chief Track Engineer, Northern Railway, was transferred as part of the action by the Railways.

The derailment in Khatauli last evening resulted in death of 22 people and injuries to over 150 others, 26 of whom are in critical condition.


Sicanta
BRFite
Posts: 1117
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 11:16

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sicanta » 23 Aug 2017 07:17

Another train derailment in UP, this time on NCR route between Kanpur and Delhi. Kaifiyat superfast 10 coaches derailed but luckily, this train has LHB coaches. But the 2 LP/s are seriously injured as per report.

Accident was caused due to collision of train with dumper truck at railway crossing.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66602
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 23 Aug 2017 15:04

rail board president has resigned today.

btw I believe all level crossings and flyovers over rail tracks are owned and managed by the railways and govts have to work through IR to get these made....over the years i have noticed how bad some of these level crossings are with giant crude humps on either end, massive holes and gaps these contribute to newbie drivers stalling their vehicles on the tracks while trying to sneak through after the bell sounds and getting hit

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66602
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 23 Aug 2017 15:15

RM Suresh Prabhu has tendered his resignation, but PMO not yet signed off on it.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7409
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sachin » 23 Aug 2017 15:18

Sicanta wrote:Accident was caused due to collision of train with dumper truck at railway crossing.

We may have to wait for more information:-
1. Was this an unmanned level crossing? Indian Railways cannot make every level crossing just vanish. They try to get unmanned crossing to manned ones, and manned crossings to have overbridge/underbridge based on a priority (vehicles v/s trains is a general metric they use).
2. If this was a manned level crossing, how did the truck enter the tracks? Was the gate keeper not present, not alert? Or did the old scheme of bullying him to open the gates worked (such incidents have happened before)?
3. Was this gate "interlocked" with protecting signals? This helps when a vehicle actually breaks down on the track and the gates cannot be shut.

Singha wrote:btw I believe all level crossings and flyovers over rail tracks are owned and managed by the railways and govts have to work through IR to get these made....

Any construction on railway property are to be done by only railway approved contractors. So the actual level crossing (gate keeper's hut, mechanism to shut & open the gate,communication and interlocking devices) is built and maintained by IR. In case of road over bridges/under bridges - the job of building any thing above or below the railway line would also be done by railway contractors. Approach roads, its upkeep, road side signalling are all the job of the respective state government (or its local governance body).

IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6932
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby IndraD » 23 Aug 2017 15:46

back to back railway accidents..there is some thing more than meets eye.
Railway is one of best ministry under NaMo and enemy is hitting where it hurts . Such a huge rail network it will always take more to protect than damage,
Notice all usual suspects asking for RM resignation on SM> Also UP has been chosen it seems. As well known road to Delhi goes through UP.
This serves to throw spanner in Namo wheel well
-keep UP CM on defensive (I note several news of oxygen ki kami in UP hospitals one by one as well
-rail accidents in UP > keeping focus on UP
-Scalping wicket of RM

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4832
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 23 Aug 2017 15:53

SP shouldn't take decision on emotions. He is among 3 4 best ministers we have. His resignation will have ripple effect on BJP govt. Let the investigations conclude first.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66602
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 23 Aug 2017 15:55

per my chaiwala in journalistic dilli circles, he himself was ok but did not use the boot on his underlings chain often enough or hard enough. so the wayward attitude continued from before in the trenches while at top level plans were good and investments made.

unfortunately the trenches are where public perceives the railway exp and lives are also lost if things are not perfect.

people dont 'see' the big picture we do in terms of DFC, new plants , track doublings etc - they want tickets rock cheap, clean trains, timely and safe (robbery/crash) trains and middle class wants clean platforms and toilets also.

railway food has been receiving numerous complaints

his ministry by virtue of sheer size, sprawl, budget, number of staff (million+contractors) is the HARDEST to run operationally , one of the most corrupt historically with deep claws of vested interests all over the gravy train, one of the most politically sensitive .... its a herculean task and he cannot be judged by the stds of any other minister or ministry. only the truly hard worker who wants to do good things or the corrupt apparitchik will take up the IR ministry.

so imo he should stay and carry on.


Return to “Technology & Economic Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests