Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6861
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Prasad » 11 Mar 2018 22:01

Picklu wrote:The speed is highly over rated. What most of the Indians need is a comfortable night journey which already exists for CHN BLR. Increasing capacity there via push-back chair car and double-decker arrangement would be lot more beneficial. IR should consider bringing in a sleeper class with lower price for push-back chair car config and charge a premium for proper sleeper berth config.

Trains up n down run full most of the time. But last to fill is shatabdi. If given a chance to run to madras/blr on friday evenings, they'd choose that over the 'overnight' train, atleast those who can afford it. To put this in perspective, Kaveri express 2nd class tickets are around Rs 300 and a/c is 1k or so. A bullet train ticket would be more but a heck of a lot faster. 6hr journey = can't sleep. 2hrs? I can go home and sleep throught he night peacefully :)

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 691
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 11 Mar 2018 22:23

Singha wrote:>>conducting feasibility study on Chennai-Bang HSR corrdor.

the chinese at their own cost conducted a feasibility study of the mysore-blr-jolarpettai-chennai line for HSR and rightly declared it unfit even for semi HSR. too many sharp turns , too steep slopes etc .....

so any blr chennai HSR will need to be new route parallel to the proposed expressway via chittor route....


I do not know what were the conclusions of the Chinese study. Ruled gradients on TGV's are 1:28, far steeper than 1:37 that you find on both Bhor and Thull Ghats out of Mumbai towards Pune and towards Bhusawal. The Bhor and Thull ghats are the steepest gradients on Broad gauge on IR. Nilgiri railways has 1:12.28 for example as ruling gradient.
That is on the Bhor and Thull ghats for every 37m you travel on track you climb or descend 1m, so Sin theta =1/37, where theta is the slope angle, NOT the calculus Tan \theta though for small angles like for the railroad track on Thull and Bhor ghat they are very close by a famous limiting theorem !! My source for ruling gradient on Thull Ghat is 1:37 is wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thal_Ghat

The terminology ruled or ruling gradient simply means that the maximum slope on the line is x:y, so 1:37 is the maximum slope on the Thull ghat, at other places on the Thull ghat section it could be less 1:50 say. x:y dominates or rules.

Here is a list of gradients on other lines, including the Frankfurt-Cologne high speed line and the French LGV Sud-Est all steeper than Thull Ghat:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... n_railways

Look at the last item in this list above: LGV Sud-Est line has a ruled gradient of 1:28, steeper than Bhor and Thull Ghat. In the Satpuras, between Nagpur and Itarsi the ruled gradient is 1:70. Both sections (Thull, Bhor ghats, and Dharakoh-Ghoradongri, and Chichonda-Teegaon in Satpuras, Chennai-Delhi) need bankers because standard IR coaches are heavy. Chennai-Bangalore is nowhere near as steep as these gradients. For freight these steep slopes are taboo and DFC is aiming for a ruled gradient of no more than 1:200. Thus the southern alignment towards Chennai of DFC will involve new routes to negotiate the 1:70 ruled gradients
and maintain the 1:200 ruling.
I had shown once by a simple calculation (see my old posts where the details of the calculation are given, it is a trivial, dumb and cheap calculation!!) that with 1.5km train lengths on DFC rakes, a gradient of more than 1:150 would put tremendous force on the couplings and also speeds would be curtailed if average speeds which are in the 80kmph are to be maintained.

Between Delhi and Chandigarh, before talking of HSR, let dumb Northern Railway double the tracks. It has taken over a decade and a half and they have missed the deadline 7 times, not once, not twice but 7 times. So finally this March 22, CRS will conduct the inspection of the "finally" doubled Chandigarh to Delhi track. The last section is between Dhappar-Chandigarh, 23 km and all this tamasha was for Ambala to Chandigarh doubling a grand total of 46km. If 46 km doubling takes 15 years :rotfl:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 029045.cms


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 925952.cms

https://dailypost.in/news/chandigarh/ra ... ble-track/

I am always amused seeing all this HSR talk when one cannot even complete simple projects in a time bound manner. As far as I recall SNCF pointed out that removing 12 curves between Chandigarh and Delhi and eliminating some level crossings would allow IR to run trains at 160-200 kmph with off course improved signalling. That is the French input apart from developing some railway stations. But curve elimination resulted in LA issues. Now they plan to run Gatimaan type trains after doubling is inspected by CRS.
Last edited by vsunder on 12 Mar 2018 03:00, edited 2 times in total.

Bart S
BRFite
Posts: 1259
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:03

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Bart S » 12 Mar 2018 00:40

^ Noob pooch:

In this context, what is 'doubling'? Does it mean actual doubling of lines (such as going from 2 to 4) or does it mean simply that what was formerly single line has been made dual?
Last edited by Bart S on 12 Mar 2018 01:35, edited 1 time in total.

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 691
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 12 Mar 2018 01:04

Chandigarh-Delhi is a single line track in the sense that Ambala-Chandigarh is a single line track. Delhi-Ambala is double lined. When 2 goes to 4 the terminology is quadrupling and that is a rarity on IR except on suburban sections of Mumbai, Chennai and its environs. For example Delhi-Mathura is triple lined. Beyond Mathura to Agra it is double lined. Delhi to its suburb of Palwal is quadrupled. Chandigarh is not Jhumri Tilaiya and yet a single line track connects it to Ambala. All sorts of Defence establishments are located at Chandi Mandir outside Chandigarh (Western Command) and Panchkula apart from it being a state capital of two important states, so it may seem strange that a single line, (same line used for up and down traffic) exists for trains to this city.
Last edited by vsunder on 12 Mar 2018 03:04, edited 1 time in total.

Bart S
BRFite
Posts: 1259
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 00:03

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Bart S » 12 Mar 2018 01:36

vsunder Saar, thanks for explaining.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17277
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 13 Mar 2018 22:22

Central Govt, in the last 3 years, has speeded up the development of rail infrastructure in Karnataka, helping improve speed of trains and facilitating uninterrupted & safe movement of road traffic in the state.

Image

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 62928
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 14 Mar 2018 17:33

TGV uses light coaches and has massive t:w due to that engine.
our LHB coaches uses for semi-HSR/gatimaan std are a lot heavier and our trains will be longer for sure.
so keeping a TGV like performance on gradients will be challenging unless we put in WAG12 and push its throttle all the way forward.... :)

JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2296
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby JTull » 14 Mar 2018 21:40

DFCC Project status has been updated on their website:

http://dfccil.gov.in/dfccil_app/Project_Status

Image

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4134
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 14 Mar 2018 21:55

Singha wrote:TGV uses light coaches and has massive t:w due to that engine.
our LHB coaches uses for semi-HSR/gatimaan std are a lot heavier and our trains will be longer for sure.
so keeping a TGV like performance on gradients will be challenging unless we put in WAG12 and push its throttle all the way forward.... :)


Good point, loco hauled HSRs have that disadvantage over axle powered HSR trainsets such as E5 and Siemens Velaro.

arvin
BRFite
Posts: 148
Joined: 17 Aug 2016 21:26

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arvin » 15 Mar 2018 13:54

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/faced-wit ... facilities

There was no need for these screens in the first place in the age of 4g enabled devices in the first place. Many here predicted this exact fate that will fall upon these screens. Typical monopolistic PSU mindset of wasting public money down the drain.
Even luxury buses have only two foldable large screens that only cleaner/helper is allowed to operate.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11785
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 15 Mar 2018 21:28

It is a mistake to say that speed is overrated . It is not . Humans seek efficient and fast transport that lets them get work done . Faster commerce drives faster economic growth generating faster income growth that pays the fares of transportation .

Having taken Chennai to Bangalore trains many times, the idea of an overnight train on that stretch feels silly . That’s 6hrs tops. Keep in mind the extra time to get to station and back . It makes for really bad sleep . OTOH the day train is just too long at 6hrs . It sits in that sweet spot of being too long for day and too short for night . A Siemens Velaro or E6 Shinkansen doing Vellore / Arakkonam to Hosur at a sustained 290-320kmh for a <2.5hr end to end ? Sign me up .

I hope Chennai Bangalore HSR gets built pronto , with peak time departures every 10-15 min . It was always a thrill to go to Tokyo station and see the Shinkansen display read departures to Osaka, Hakata (Fukuoka), Hiroshima etc within minutes of each other .

viveks
BRFite
Posts: 192
Joined: 17 Nov 2004 06:01

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby viveks » 16 Mar 2018 15:17

Singha wrote:rdso seems to be carrying out many trials to up the cruising speed of all exp trains to around 130kmph

here is one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ4m337PhOc

mashallah accounting for stops, and need to slow down to a halt and speed up, this might move the avg to 100 for long distance trains with not many stops

the del mum rajdhanis are now running with 2 locos i think to improve the acceleration



About 5 yrs ago, I used to travel in this train. I think in those days, there was never any need for greater acceleration in that route. They usually travel at 120-130 km/hr and always reach on time.

I think the older rakes, could have withstood more higher speeds...or maybe they used to shake a lot better and feel a lot faster. New Delhi - Calcutta route I think required far more speedy travel. I remember a time when Rajdhani was 12 hrs late and had to take a diverted into Kanpur, reaching it at 8:00 am in the morning instead of 8:00 pm the previous night. After leaving Kanpur, the speed with which we travelled, I have never felt like that ever while travelling New delhi - Mumbai route ever...or even any other time. Also, I also remember that it usually used to breeze into a stopping station like Gaya at very high speeds. You never thought it would actually stop at the station with the speed with which it entered the station. I dont think they exercise those skills anymore...:)

viveks
BRFite
Posts: 192
Joined: 17 Nov 2004 06:01

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby viveks » 16 Mar 2018 15:20

viveks wrote:
Singha wrote:rdso seems to be carrying out many trials to up the cruising speed of all exp trains to around 130kmph

here is one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ4m337PhOc

mashallah accounting for stops, and need to slow down to a halt and speed up, this might move the avg to 100 for long distance trains with not many stops

the del mum rajdhanis are now running with 2 locos i think to improve the acceleration



About 5 yrs ago, I used to travel in this train. I think in those days, there was never any need for greater acceleration in that route. They usually travel at 120-130 km/hr and always reach on time.

I think the older rakes, could have withstood more higher speeds...or maybe they used to shake a lot better and feel a lot faster. New Delhi - Calcutta route I think required far more speedy travel. I remember a time when Rajdhani was 12 hrs late and had to take a diverted route into Kanpur, reaching it at 8:00 am in the morning instead of 8:00 pm the previous night. After leaving Kanpur, the speed with which we travelled, I have never felt like that ever while travelling New delhi - Mumbai route ever...or even any other time. Also, I also remember that it usually used to breeze into a stopping station like Gaya at very high speeds. You never thought it would actually stop at the station with the speed with which it entered the station. I dont think they exercise those skills anymore...:)

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 62928
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 17 Mar 2018 13:29

well higher spec the train less the NVH @ speed.
the old clickety clack era is coming to an end and pendulous sideways jerking as we slept.

all HSR run very smooth and quiet per travellers.

A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10536
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A_Gupta » 17 Mar 2018 20:24

http://www.financialexpress.com/infrast ... a/1102062/
Indian Railways set for big transformation with modern ‘world-class’ Make in India locomotives
Locomotives form an important part of the way the Indian Railways network functions. Energy efficient locomotives that can achieve relatively higher speeds and throughput are crucial to India that is growing fast and hopes to retain the tag of world's fastest growing major economy.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17277
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 17 Mar 2018 21:08

Suraj wrote:It is a mistake to say that speed is overrated . It is not . Humans seek efficient and fast transport that lets them get work done . Faster commerce drives faster economic growth generating faster income growth that pays the fares of transportation .

Having taken Chennai to Bangalore trains many times, the idea of an overnight train on that stretch feels silly . That’s 6hrs tops. Keep in mind the extra time to get to station and back . It makes for really bad sleep . OTOH the day train is just too long at 6hrs . It sits in that sweet spot of being too long for day and too short for night . A Siemens Velaro or E6 Shinkansen doing Vellore / Arakkonam to Hosur at a sustained 290-320kmh for a <2.5hr end to end ? Sign me up .

I hope Chennai Bangalore HSR gets built pronto , with peak time departures every 10-15 min . It was always a thrill to go to Tokyo station and see the Shinkansen display read departures to Osaka, Hakata (Fukuoka), Hiroshima etc within minutes of each other .


I said speed was over rated, in relative terms.

I remember in germany over 30 years ago, highway accident victim were mostly medevaced to hospitals in helos that were on 24X7 standby in many places all along the autobahns.

on inquiry, I was told that each medevac cost the state between 225K to 275K DMs and it was justified by saying that our citizens are valuable to us and we (meaning the german state and the german taxpayer or sometimes the insurance) did not mind paying that price to save the life of a valuable german citizen.

I wish India gets to that stage one day but right now our citizens seem to be very happy, just taking selfies of gravely injured accident victims and recording their death rattles just to send out on whatsapp. A few may actually help but in relative terms we are way behind in showing compassion for our fellow beings.

sure, we need shinkansens too and we will get there one day but not anytime soon.

In the meanwhile, we need good and fast connectivity, and relatively speaking, faster or fastest doesn't really matter at this stage.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11785
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 17 Mar 2018 22:37

chetak wrote:sure, we need shinkansens too and we will get there one day but not anytime soon.

We will get there in 4-5 years when MUM-AHD starts service. Followed soon after by any other lines decided upon, hopefully MAA-BLR.

It is normal to not grasp 'supply creates its own demand'. It's not very intuitive. But in a very supply constrained developing economy, it works. 'Shinkansen' is often seen as some upper end status symbol. It's not. It's just a very fast train. The most important benefit is that it enables people to get between places faster. Once they can accomplish that, they get to do more work in more places. Faster economic growth = faster production, faster transport of goods and people, faster exchange of money.

Fast transportation dramatically boosts the velocity of aggregate economic activity. This in turn dramatically boosts aggregates incomes. Speaking in terms of current incomes is rather pointless. It has already been established that proposed Shinkansen fares are in line with upper half or upper third of current fares. With rapid transport and dramatic increase in incomes driven by faster aggregate economic activity.

I have no comment on the unrelated sidebar about selfie takers.

hanumadu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3989
Joined: 11 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby hanumadu » 17 Mar 2018 23:16

How are longer rails made in India? Are they welded or are they made as a single piece?

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 691
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 18 Mar 2018 03:51

hanumadu wrote:How are longer rails made in India? Are they welded or are they made as a single piece?


Rails in India were all sourced from SAIL from their Bhilai steel plant. These were of 65m length. The optimal length is 260m and so these 65m rails needed a lot of welding together with the subsequent issue of cracks developing and poor welds and other factors. Global warming is here to stay and the extreme temperatures one encounters now will also be a contributory factor to cracks developing along poor welds. SAIL did not have the technology to prevent large length rails to develop hydrogen embrittlement. Hydrogen embrittlement has been a cause on some cracks forming in rails on IR and was identified as the cause of a rail fracture and subsequent catastrophe at Khanna(Punjab) in the Khanna rail disaster:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khanna_rail_disaster

The Frontier Mail had derailed with 6 coaches on the down line, when those 6 coaches were rammed by the Howrah-Jammu Tawi express in 1998. Hydrogen embrittlement was identified as the leading cause of the ensuing rail fracture and derailment of Frontier Mail or Golden Temple Express as it is called nowadays. It took a while for SAIL to graduate to 130m rail lengths which it claims it has started to make since Sept 2016. Thus the number of welds has decreased with supposed good control on hydrogen embrittlement in the steel making process.

Jindal steel has announced that they have started making 260m rails (at its Raigarh, Chattisgarh plant) and these have already shipped to the Eastern dedicated Freight corridor. In 2014 they had announced a contract they won from Tata-Aldesa to supply 88,000 metric tonnes of 260m rails for the Khurja-Kanpur section of the EDFC. 260m rails are some of the new technologies that the DFC's have introduced into the IR system. The rails for the western DFC are all sourced from Japan as per contract and so all of them are at 260m standards and made in Japanese steel plants. In the case of Jindal, they built 3-4 wagons which could transport 260m rail lengths to construction sites along the Khurja-Bhaupur(Kanpur) section of the EDFC.

Another issue that IR is forced to grapple with is that IR has limited specialized wagons to transport rails in such long lengths as 260m to various sites like the DFC's. I have seen some pictures of these specialized wagons. Here is what wikipedia says on hydrogen embrittlement:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement

hanumadu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3989
Joined: 11 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby hanumadu » 18 Mar 2018 05:28

Thank you sir for the detailed reply. Glad to know that private steel companies are stepping up to the task. Is the technology developed by Jindal steel in house or is it licensed from some other company?

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 691
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 18 Mar 2018 06:02

hanumadu wrote:Thank you sir for the detailed reply. Glad to know that private steel companies are stepping up to the task. Is the technology developed by Jindal steel in house or is it licensed from some other company?


There was a brief announcement from Jindal steel that they had shipped the first consignment of 260m rails to EDFC(under Make in India), and technical specs that they are capable of supplying 484m length rails with flash butt welding. The need for head hardened rails will be acute with both DFC and HSR projects. Here is what I found:

https://www.jindalsteelpower.com/img/ne ... 010_15.pdf


This article indicates that Jindal has taken technology from SMS Meer GmBH, Germany to set up the steel rails plant, so it is imported technology:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 031389.cms


https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/js ... 38797.html

hanumadu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3989
Joined: 11 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby hanumadu » 18 Mar 2018 09:54

Thanks!

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17277
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 18 Mar 2018 13:49

Suraj wrote:
chetak wrote:sure, we need shinkansens too and we will get there one day but not anytime soon.

We will get there in 4-5 years when MUM-AHD starts service. Followed soon after by any other lines decided upon, hopefully MAA-BLR.

It is normal to not grasp 'supply creates its own demand'. It's not very intuitive. But in a very supply constrained developing economy, it works. 'Shinkansen' is often seen as some upper end status symbol. It's not. It's just a very fast train. The most important benefit is that it enables people to get between places faster. Once they can accomplish that, they get to do more work in more places. Faster economic growth = faster production, faster transport of goods and people, faster exchange of money.

Fast transportation dramatically boosts the velocity of aggregate economic activity. This in turn dramatically boosts aggregates incomes. Speaking in terms of current incomes is rather pointless. It has already been established that proposed Shinkansen fares are in line with upper half or upper third of current fares. With rapid transport and dramatic increase in incomes driven by faster aggregate economic activity.

I have no comment on the unrelated sidebar about selfie takers.


I appreciate that just like enhanced telecom interconnectivity and improved tele-density acts as a GDP multiplier, as does improved infrastructure for mass transportation initiatives like HSR networks, roads, ports, airports, bus stations, buses, airlines and other forms of transportation related/based connectivity to facilitate movement of people and goods.

The wheels of commerce and the free flow of information have been well oiled by the cell phone revolution and the widespread data networks that are increasingly being augmented at a rapid pace and yet our speeds of internet connectivity is among the slowest in the world. The same is being seen as a money gouging enterprise with poor quality and bad service, not patriotically as an essential service with specified delivery service levels.

The same has not been clearly understood by our planners, baboo(n)s and politicos who insist on taxing such poor quality services at high rates under the GST when actually it should have been at the lowest possible rates and seen as essential services, as fundamental as water, electricity, education and basic health care.

The transportation sector and ultimately, the country as a whole, would also benefit, if not mercilessly taxed, officially and unofficially, by the powers that be.

This would show up, fairly quickly, in related GDP numbers.

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 691
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 18 Mar 2018 21:46

Solapur edition of Divya Marathi reports that Vakav-Kurduwadi will undergo inspection by CRS tomorrow prior to commissioning of double line on this important route (Chennai-Mumbai). The doubling construction on this section Kurduwadi-Vakav as seen in August last year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg4gNeCOxEo

With this, 154 km of doubling is left for Chennai-Mumbai to be fully doubled. About 300km is left for complete electrification between Chennai-Mumbai.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 62928
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 19 Mar 2018 10:52

are the DFC going to be used 100% by freight trains or taking advantage of its higher std some long distance express trains will also be allowed?
do they pass through the major stations on the mumbai-del-howrah route or they skirt past cities and keep moving?

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 62928
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 19 Mar 2018 10:55

>> The optimal length is 260m

:shock: how on earth are these transported to site? even 60m is a challenge if its in one piece .... i can think of 40m ish windmill blades on trucks as the largest seen on our NHs

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17277
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 19 Mar 2018 11:13

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/railways-to-optimise-usage-of-locomotives-with-a-new-mathematical-formula-increase-revenue-in-turn



Railways To Optimise Usage Of Locomotives With A New Mathematical Formula, Increase Revenue In Turn

by Swarajya Staff - Mar 18 2018,

The Railways is set to optimise the deployment of diesel and electric locomotives to run passenger trains and increase its revenue by using a software-based mathematical decision support system, Financial Express has reported.

The Railways currently uses a cyclic schedule called locomotive links to run its 3300 electric and diesel locomotive passenger trains. Until now, these links were being prepared manually by sixteen zones of the Railways to operate trains. Now, the Piyush Goyal-led Ministry of Railways, working with experts, has developed and implemented the software-based decision support system to optimize the deployment of locomotives to run passenger trains at an all India level.

“The decision support system utilizes a mathematical model to work out the minimum number of locomotives required to run all the passenger trains as per time table while meeting the maintenance and operations requirements,” the Ministry of Railways said in a statement released on Friday.

According to the ministry, a recently conducted pilot optimisation exercise resulted in reorganising of locomotive links. This will save 30 diesel and 42 electric locomotives (costing about Rs720 crores) being currently run in passenger services. Additional revenue can be generated by using these 72 locomotives released from passenger operations to run freight trains across the country.

vsunder
BRFite
Posts: 691
Joined: 06 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Ulan Bator, Mongolia

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 19 Mar 2018 19:26

Singha wrote:are the DFC going to be used 100% by freight trains or taking advantage of its higher std some long distance express trains will also be allowed?
do they pass through the major stations on the mumbai-del-howrah route or they skirt past cities and keep moving?


DFC's are for freight only. They have few junctions with IR tracks and stations are about 40km apart. The stations on the DFC are specialized stations and are named New Bhagega for example. The word New is prefixed. These "New" stations are not co-located with an existing IR station. Some of the New stations have junctions with IR, though others are just stations with loop lines for DFC traffic. In major cities DFC tracks invariably bypass the city and traverse the city well on the outskirts, see the various Google map coordinates I have posted earlier. You can see the construction going on for the bypasses. Logistics parks will be built on the outskirts of cities for the DFC and DFC will hop over IR tracks emanating from the city by means of rail over rail flyover. 25 such flyovers are being built and 3 are complete so 22 to go. For example DFC jumps over the Kanpur-Jhansi line outside Kanpur by means of a rail flyover and never enters the city but bypasses the city way to the south of the city. Ditto for Allahabad where it hops over the Allahabad-Jabalpur line by means of a rail flyover. Other flyovers I know are over the Tundla-Agra line and the NER line at Hathras. On the WDFC it hops over the Surat-Jalgaon line, lines to Jaipur, Ahmedabad etc. For example WDFC makes a huge loop
around Ahmedabad, well to the west of Ahmedabad, hopping over tracks towards Viramgam by means of rail flyovers.

Approaching Mughalsarai, they are building a New Jeonathpur station which will be a intermodal terminal with river, road and rail terminal. Then it bypasses Mughalsarai. There is now a lot of activity at the Jeonathpur intermodal terminal with many jetties and piers on Ganga newly constructed, cranes being erected and so on as seen on Google Earth. The terminal is also close to a National highway,
and Varanasi is across the Ganga from there.

Full use of the DFC cannot be made until the network is fully complete. The reason is DFC stations are being built to handle 1.5 km long rakes ( a mile long freight train!!) on loop lines. That is why the stations have to be built separately and anew. Currently IR stations can handle rakes half the length--- 700 m--- at its stations. So for a partially complete network, DFCC will have to operate abbreviated rakes till the time its network on EDFC or WDFC is complete at which point of time it can send 1.5km rakes.

Here is an example of a Rail over rail flyover at Mendu, Hathras on EDFC. EDFC bypasses Hathras railway station and town way on the outskirts and so the need to hop over IR tracks emanating from the junction:

https://twitter.com/dfccil_india/status ... 2802860032

The picture is dated and I expect construction is now complete.
Last edited by vsunder on 19 Mar 2018 20:26, edited 1 time in total.

Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 11785
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 19 Mar 2018 20:21

Singha wrote:are the DFC going to be used 100% by freight trains or taking advantage of its higher std some long distance express trains will also be allowed?
do they pass through the major stations on the mumbai-del-howrah route or they skirt past cities and keep moving?

Dedicated freight corridor is going to be dedicated to freight, as named. However, by offloading freight traffic away from existing lines, it can reduce the pressure on the current system. This is particularly true for freight traffic that's longer and slower, and therefore takes more time to clear blocks.

hanumadu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3989
Joined: 11 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby hanumadu » 20 Mar 2018 03:42

Singha wrote:>> The optimal length is 260m

:shock: how on earth are these transported to site? even 60m is a challenge if its in one piece .... i can think of 40m ish windmill blades on trucks as the largest seen on our NHs


I think they are transported on rails only and not by road. The factory itself must be connected by rails. Load them onto specialised wagons using cranes and transport them on existing rails.

Image

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5419
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 21 Mar 2018 20:11

About 17 lakh senior citizens have voluntary given up fare subsidy.

http://www.pib.nic.in/PressReleseDetail ... ID=1525569

sohamn
BRFite
Posts: 300
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 12:56
Location: the Queen of the Angels of Porziuncola
Contact:

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby sohamn » 22 Mar 2018 04:33

Why on earth do we need 9000hp freight locos when we building 12000 hp ones? This is one thing I don't understand of IR, they should reduce diversification of locomotives to reduce maintenance.

I could have understood if they were looking to get tech for HSR locos, but why freight locos?


https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/railways/five-firms-in-fray-to-bag-rs-5000-crore-project-to-make-200-locomotives-for-railways/articleshow/63364737.cms

hanumadu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3989
Joined: 11 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby hanumadu » 22 Mar 2018 05:17

hanumadu wrote:
Singha wrote:>> The optimal length is 260m

:shock: how on earth are these transported to site? even 60m is a challenge if its in one piece .... i can think of 40m ish windmill blades on trucks as the largest seen on our NHs


I think they are transported on rails only and not by road. The factory itself must be connected by rails. Load them onto specialised wagons using cranes and transport them on existing rails.

Image


The photo got deleted, but here is a video of one system used to transport long rails.


arvin
BRFite
Posts: 148
Joined: 17 Aug 2016 21:26

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arvin » 22 Mar 2018 11:06

That 9000 hp tender doesnt make sense. Plus for that there is a make in india component at chitaranjan works asansol. Duplicating work done at alsthom factory in bihar for 12000 hp.

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5419
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 25 Mar 2018 18:17

Residential and commercial development allowed in station redevelopment. May help reduce slums around stations.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 048046.cms

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5419
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 25 Mar 2018 18:20

Lukewarm response from private investors. Railways to use EPC route. I hope they don't compromise on quality.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 423034.cms

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4134
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 26 Mar 2018 09:10

Maharashtra government to buy 353 hectares for bullet train corridor
MUMBAI: The Maharashtra government has begun the process of acquiring 353 hectares of land for the bullet train project, which the Centre wants to commission for commercial services from August 15, 2022.
A total of 1,400 hectares of land is needed for the entire project, but a majority of that lies in Gujarat.
Achal Khare, managing director of the National High Speed Rail Corporation Ltd (NHSRCL), said, “We are planning to complete the entire land acquisition process by December 2018. Of the 108 villages in Palghar and Thane, notification about the acquisition has been issued in 17 villages. For the balance, the notification will be issued in a fortnight.”
NHSRCL is implementing the project of high speed train corridor between Ahmedabad and Mumbai.


He said the land will be acquired through the owner’s consent. NHSRCL has set aside around Rs 10,000 crore for the acquisition.
Asked whether there is resistance to the acquisition, he said, “Initially, there will be apprehension but we expect many to give their consent voluntarily as the compensation offered is handsome.” Around 0.9 hectares has been acquired for setting up of a terminal at BKC.
The corporation is in the process of finalizing the design for the underground station, which will be built under the structure housing the International Financial Services Centre.
In 2022, the corporation plans to procure 24 Shinkansen E 5 series trains, of which 4 will be on standby. Three trains shall ply each hour during the peak hour. There will be a total of 70 services per day.


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 457515.cms

JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2296
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby JTull » 27 Mar 2018 15:50

https://twitter.com/nspanwar84/status/978533303673290753

Trial run on Ateli- Fulera section(190 km) of #WDFC of @dfccil_india has commenced today @PiyushGoyal @nhsrcl @WorldBank
Image

JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2296
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby JTull » 27 Mar 2018 16:24


Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4134
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 27 Mar 2018 17:39

Looks like electrification of the line is yet to begin.


Return to “Technology & Economic Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests