Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

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Singha
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 08 Nov 2018 10:59

for the exterior they could have taken help of wind tunnel facilities and aero depts in one of the IIT, or HAL for its wind tunnel and got a much more refined product with proper fluid dynamic analysis.

this looks like just rough n tough hack job going by visual looks.

even for a car, if the windows are open it increases drag by 4% .... conformal lights, horns, flush windows as seen in proper HSR locos is what we need.

this was low hanging fruit ... has it even been tested pulling a train at 200kmph or its "gut feel" it will magically manage 200kmph :lol:

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 08 Nov 2018 11:41

Ministry of Railways modifies Flexi-Fare Scheme based on CAG Report and representations from passengers

Flexi Fare completely removed from 15 trains and from 32 trains during lean period (February, March and August). Graded Discount upto 20% on last fare to be given (class wise) in case of class occupancy being less than 60%. Highest slab reduced from 1.5 times to 1.4 times.


Kalka-Shimla railway section commences hop-on/hop-off service

SHIMLA: Ahead of the tourist season, Northern Railways Ambala Division, is introducing new hop-on hop-off the train service on UNESCO declared World Heritage Kalka-Shimla section from 25 October.

...

“The introduction of this service will enable the tourist to visit all the places of tourist’s interest of Kalka – Shimla section, on a single ticket,” he said. Under the service the passengers can board any coach of any train subject to availability of seats, they can board or de-board at or from any station in all the trains, he informed.

...

According to the fare structure and validity period of ticket for a single day the full fare for the adult is Rs 500 where as for a child it is Rs 250.

While the two-day validity charges for full fare is Rs 800 while for a child is Rs 400, for a period of three days the charges fixed is Rs 1000 for full fare and Rs 500 for a child.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 08 Nov 2018 11:42

A new railway line has been approved for Eastern UP.

http://www.railnews.in/cabinet-approves ... r-pradesh/

NEW DELHI: The Cabinet Committee on Economic Affairs chaired by the Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi has approved new Railway Line between Bahraich and Khalilabad via Bhinga, Shravasti, Balrampur, Utraula, Domariyaganj, Mehdawal, Bansi. The total length of the new Broad Gauge line will be 240.26 kilometers.

The total estimated cost of the project is Rs. 4939.78 crore. The project will be completed by 2024-25 and will lie in North Eastern Railway.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Zynda » 08 Nov 2018 11:46

Trust me, IR does some rudimentary wind tunnel analysis of its locomotives. I've seen WT models of WAP-4 & WAP-7 (not the above loco). Was surprised and pleased to see those WT models. I am sure they would have done some CFD analysis on the modified locomotive to rough out the edges in design...what is shoddy is the execution/manufacturing of the model. One can see dents in some of the sheetmetal bends.

WAP5 was always capable of doing 200Kph. What it needed was changes in software & loco gear ratios for higher speed operations.

Per one of the RDSO documents on WAP5 (modification of the loco to make it suitable for 200Kph operation & also twin loco config),
The bogie is capable of being running upto a maximum test speed of 225 kmph.
The Contractor shall guarantee that the locomotive shall run at a test speed of 225kmph. Detailed calculation in support of this shall be furnished.

http://rdso.indianrailways.gov.in/works ... cation.pdf

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A Nandy » 10 Nov 2018 14:05

India keen to locally manufacture and export bullet train coaches

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 545031.cms

He said that the Modern Coach Factory, Raebareli in Uttar Pradesh is well equipped to produce the coaches.

"Add to this around 150,000 skilled workers, 50 railway workshops and around six production units that railway has at it's disposal," Agarwal said.
The Ambassador of Japan to India Kenji Hiramatsu said that the discussions over manufacturing the Shinkansen coaches locally were going on.

"The discussions on this is going on. I believe it's best to manufacture locally and we are seriously thinking about it," he told this reporter.

If the move works out, it will also open a new business opportunity for the state owned organisation which is reeling under high operating costs.

The scope for high speed railways across the globe has huge potential. It is currently in different stages in the USA, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand and Indonesia.

"The idea is to get Japan to produce not just the rolling stock for railways in India but also other sectors like defence using our manufacturing units. That will be a big takeaway," said Agarwal.


Size of the Indian market itself is huge if the trainsets are affordable enough. They should be the ones going all out to propose this to us.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 11 Nov 2018 18:10

T-18 moves out of Chennai for testing.

https://youtu.be/XEh9yMAyboo

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 11 Nov 2018 22:49

very good quality night train from munich to rome. i hope T20 has some nuova 1AC class at this level


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby nash » 11 Nov 2018 23:54

Train18 spotted at Anna Nagar railway station

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igf9d-M1hjo

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 12 Nov 2018 00:26

nash wrote:Train18 spotted at Anna Nagar railway station

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igf9d-M1hjo

Such a beautiful looking train. Can't believe ICF came up with it in under two years for Rs.100 crore. Way better effort than the original plan to obtain Talgos.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A Nandy » 12 Nov 2018 00:56

Indian Railways may yet become like the Indian Navy :)

Bleeding edge and totally indigenous industry.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A Nandy » 12 Nov 2018 21:23

T18 crossing Nagpur:


No paan marks yet :twisted:

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby SBajwa » 12 Nov 2018 23:05

Why is train-18 being hauled by an engine?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arshyam » 12 Nov 2018 23:37

It's standard IR practice for un-commissioned equipment. This is just the "ferry flight" equivalent on rails, much testing awaits.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby sohamn » 12 Nov 2018 23:42

SBajwa wrote:Why is train-18 being hauled by an engine?


Minor nitpick - that is a locomotive and not an engine. There is a big difference in the meaning of locomotive and engine.

regarding why it is hauled by a loco, the answer is because it is not tested for mainline tracks. One can't send an untested train on its own via a congested corridor, without the support of a locomotive.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby nam » 12 Nov 2018 23:47

It is been transferred to Delhi. Needless to say the tracks all the way to Delhi is not electrified. So Train-18 cannot go by itself to Delhi.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arshyam » 13 Nov 2018 07:19

^^ Eh? Did they pull out all the traction poles in this route? :rotfl:

The Chennai -Delhi route has been fully electrified since the early nineties.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 13 Nov 2018 07:24

Yes that is true. The grand trunk exp and TN expressof my eta were electric early 90s

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Prasad » 13 Nov 2018 11:11

The train is being towed in a wrapped condition. Maybe they want it to start running on its own once it gets to NR? Or maybe NR wants to get the pleasure of peeling off all the plastic :)

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby nash » 13 Nov 2018 16:38

Train 18 crosses the Ennore creek bridge on its long journey to Delhi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgFsM4oM5es

It is a beautiful train, Train -18 and 20 can change the whole look of Indian Railway.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 13 Nov 2018 20:44

the spain AVE madrid to barcelona track - sustained 250kmph cruising by a 310kmph certified train does not have any fencing and is farmed right upto the tracks

i guess no stray animals there and people are thin on the ground and no tendency to sneak across anywhere


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 13 Nov 2018 20:57

how ever in terms of tight discipline, looks, dress, precision and general stds nothing comes close to the shinkansens on home ground!
there are pretenders but the original is still the best.


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 13 Nov 2018 21:20

T-18 reaches Delhi with glasses still intact.

https://youtu.be/CvzZe_tevOY

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 14 Nov 2018 06:58

Surprised that stone throwing youths did not snipe at it

Must have travelled mostly at night via secret routes :mrgreen:

Trials between moradabad and bareilly - hope people let go of their birthright to trash sarkari property

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby hanumadu » 15 Nov 2018 10:07

Lessons learnt from Train 18 being applied else where by ICF.


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sachin » 15 Nov 2018 11:25

Singha wrote:how ever in terms of tight discipline, looks, dress, precision and general stds nothing comes close to the shinkansens on home ground! there are pretenders but the original is still the best.

The Japanese (thankfully) take immense pride in some of their achievements & culture. And Japan is also a very small country, and pretty much has a uniform culture. Perhaps all these add to the unique running aspects of Shinkansen. Such a system would take 100s of years to come to India.

My first onsite posting was to a city in Japan, but I did not get an opportunity to travel in the bullet trains. I could only see them fly past some of the stations. Even their normal trains generally stick to their time tables. I had to make a trip to another city, and taking the help of a Japanese colleague got the time table worked out. I had to change trains at two points and as per the time table connections were available within minutes of my arrival at each point. The local time tables are generally only available in Japanese.

But on the day of arrival, heavy winds in some areas forced the trains to reduce the speeds. And this messed up the time tables (and my schedules) as well. My first train itself arrived 15 mins late, and on a different platform. I had to figure out connection trains at the two intermediate places. It was only the basic Indian quality - "Ask & Proceed" which helped me here. The staff were off course helpful, and in the local trains I was a character of interest ;). I also saw the Japanese technique of "Point & say" diligently followed by the JR staff (it looked a bit comical then, but later understanding the process better I could appreciate that).

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby JayS » 15 Nov 2018 13:07

hanumadu wrote:Lessons learnt from Train 18 being applied else where by ICF.



Brilliant.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Indranil » 16 Nov 2018 00:31

As I was saying earlier, a knowledgeable person should compile a list of EMUs and DEMUs that we have designed.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A Nandy » 17 Nov 2018 14:13

Train 18, India's First Engine-less Train, to Go on Trial Run in UP Today; Will Head to Rajasthan Next

High-speed trials will be conducted between Kota and Sawai Modhopur after the Moradabad trials. Train 18 is capable of touching 200 kmph provided that the rest of Indian Railways' system such as tracks and signals permit, Mani said.


https://www.news18.com/news/india/train ... 41673.html


https://www.timesnownews.com/business-e ... ial/315242

Chennai: Vested interests are trying to "fail" India's first locomotive- less train or Train 18, a top official said on Friday, adding there was nothing to worry about the glitches that occurred during a trial run.

"During the low speed trials of Train 18, a power disarray was noticed - technically called harmonics - which led to blowing up of fuses and activation of safety (systems) at (electricity) sub-stations and stalling of some locomotives in the section," S. Mani, General Manager of Integral Coach Factory (ICF) that has manufactured the train, told IANS.

Mani said after the problem was resolved, "the locomotives were promptly put back into service, the sub-stations were attended to and feedback was given to the ICF".

He said the onboard software for traction and regenerative braking were also tuned to eliminate harmonics.

"This was all done within a day of reporting."

On October 29, the Rs 100 crore indigenously developed high-tech, energy-efficient, self-propelled or engine-less train was flagged off here by Railway Board Chairman Ashwani Lohani.

The train was later put through lowspeed trials to test its various systems.

"The train underwent the low-speed trials between ICF (Anna Nagar station) and Villivakkam, a distance of 1 km. Such a short distance does not permit higher speed build-up. However, many important systems were tested such as operations of brakes, interaction of the pantograph with overhead wire, familiarity of driver controls and high voltage tests to the extent possible at a speed limit of 30 kmph," Mani said.

"The current certificate is valid only for Moradabad-Bareilly and Kota-Sawai Madhopur sections. However, during its travel from Chennai to Delhi at full sectional speed all its mechanical systems such as wheels, springs, pneumatic suspension and pneumatic brakes as well as its dynamics proved themselves satisfactory," Mani added.

Talking about the speed trials, Mani said medium speed trial of Train 18 will be conducted between Moradabad and Bareilly over the next few weeks.

"Vast instrumentation has been provided on the train by Research Design and Standards Organisation (RDSO) for this purpose. These tests will certify that Train 18 is fit on all tracks of Indian Railways at a speed of 110 kmph," Mani remarked.

High-speed trials will be conducted between Kota and Sawai Modhopur after the Moradabad trials.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby SaiK » 18 Nov 2018 06:39

I didn't get it.. who is the vested interest?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 18 Nov 2018 08:59

Import lobby may be? Who'd rather see Talgo in IR than our Train 18.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby nandakumar » 18 Nov 2018 12:45

I don't understand this. The Train 18, at least in the initial phase, is supposed to replace the existing Shatabdi type inter city express trains. Most of them have one or two stops at the most. So the advantage of faster acceleration can only be marginal at best. Of course if the advantage is over all higher speed due to light weight material etc. then it is something else. Right now it is only a technology demonstrator I suppose. Does it offer superior economies of operation?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 18 Nov 2018 13:16

faster acceleration while it gains more from real stops, but I dont think rest of time it can steadily cruise at its top speed despite rajdhani/shatabdi being given line clear and all other trains pushed to sidings - there are speed limited sections and old bridges that need due care. human and cattle movement areas = in all these, anything that gets back faster to top speed will benefit.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... v1pSN.html

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 18 Nov 2018 17:33

Make In India Success: India’s First Engineless Train Is 23 Per Cent Faster Than Shatabdi, Completes First Trial

Make in India Success: India’s First Engineless Train Is 23 Per Cent Faster Than Shatabdi, Completes First Trial
A view of the Train 18 at Safdarjung station, during its trial run, on November 14, 2018 in New Delhi, India.

India’s first engine-less train had its first trial run of the on the Bareilly-Moradabad section, reports Metro Rail News. Train 18, believed to be the successor to the Shatabdi Express is developed at the Integral Coach Factory (ICF), Chennai.

The Train 18 designed to model the bullet trains, was unveiled by the Chairman of Railway Board, Ashwani Lohani, last month.

The T-18 was built under the current government’s ‘Make in India’ initiative within a span of 18 months.

The fully air conditioned train has a self-propulsion module which can reach a speed of 160 kmph as opposed to upper limit of 130 kmph for Shatabdi and includes technical features for enhanced quick acceleration. As compared to Shatabdi, it will cut the travel time by 15 per cent.

It cost Rs. 100 crore to build the first long-distance train which does not feature a separate locomotive or engine.


As reported earlier the train, had a few short runs in Chennai. The trial runs saw a few glitches and issues. However, the Indian Railways said that such minor issues were routine in the trial phase. A railway official said, “Some fuses went off while conducting the low-speed run in the city (Chennai). They were fixed immediately. There was nothing to worry about,” as quoted by PTI.

Train 18, or T-18, is named as such because was built in 2018. The 16 coach train will have various modern features. The train is completely computerised and has diffused lighting, automatic doors and footsteps besides GPS-based Passenger Information System.

It will have its final test run at the speed of 160 km/hr at the Kota-Sawai Madhopur stretch. The train is expected to begin its services by February 2019.


https://swarajyamag.com/insta/rogue-act ... says-trump

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 18 Nov 2018 18:00

Next step should be to modify existing tracks where T 18 can hit 200kmph.

Train 18: Indian Railways engine-less train to hit tracks for trials; may hit 180 kmph on Delhi-Mumbai route!


https://www.financialexpress.com/infras ... 4783/lite/

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby nandakumar » 18 Nov 2018 21:17

Singha wrote:faster acceleration while it gains more from real stops, but I dont think rest of time it can steadily cruise at its top speed despite rajdhani/shatabdi being given line clear and all other trains pushed to sidings - there are speed limited sections and old bridges that need due care. human and cattle movement areas = in all these, anything that gets back faster to top speed will benefit.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... v1pSN.html

Thanks. I understand. It all boils down to with existing bottlenecks, how much are these trains able to shave off, isn't it?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 18 Nov 2018 21:41

the Talgo managed to take 2 hrs off the august kranti rajdhani record. hauled by a loco but smaller and lighter than LHG coaches.
it must have stopped at some points to change engines and drivers. our aluminium metro trains are also able to speed up rapidly.

train20 should be targeted to sleeper bogies and replace the LHB/ICF sleepers enmasse.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 19 Nov 2018 01:27

This trial was carried out only at 110 kmph. It will be tested upto 160 kmph. But using this train all over will need more investments in track and signalling.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 19 Nov 2018 02:05

The sleek beauty moves fast.

https://youtu.be/YaBnYTsh4zs

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby souravB » 19 Nov 2018 03:03

For the sleeper cars, IR's problem is two fold
  1. Accommodating more people per bogey i.e. capacity increase
  2. Speed increase
HSR or semi HSR like T20 can tackle the second problem. But for the first, we need innovative ideas and designers working on it.
IMO a DD train set with some clever design can be of our use here. I was very surprised to find next to nil design ideas on this front from desis.
Only one I could find who is also thinking on my line but his ideas were just limited to 1AC
paper: Varadaraj Gidugu

Here is one example from Russia who have made it to 2T concepts, but we need to extend it till 3T for our use case
Russian double decker sleeper

I am trying to draw some rudimentary ideas, then again CAD is not my cup of tea. :(

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 19 Nov 2018 10:03

Why the couplers compartment is not covered? It will surely increase aerodynamics.


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