Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 29 Nov 2018 01:09

You can't be serious. The Chinese HSR system is not 'standardized on a tech' . They basically got everyone to bid and stole from everyone to create their own home grown variants. Their sequence roughly reads:
China Star: First homegrown effort, only a prototype, didn't work well at all.
All subsequent ones based on imported technology China Rail High Speed:
* CRH1 produced by Bombardier Transportation's joint venture Sifang Power (Qingdao) Transportation (BST), CRH1A, and CRH1B, nicknamed "Metro" or "Bread", derived from Bombardier's Regina; CRH1E, nicknamed "Lizard", is Bombardier's ZEFIRO 250 design
* CRH2: nicknamed "Hairtail", derived from E2 Series 1000 Shinkansen
* CRH3: nickname "Rabbit", derived from Siemens ICE3 (class 403); 8-car sets; maximum operating speed of 350 km/
* CRH5A: derived from Alstom Pendolino ETR600; 8-car sets; maximum operating speed of 250 km/h
* CRH380D: also named Zefiro 380; maximum operating speed of 380 km/h, manufactured by Bombardier Sifang (Qingdao) Transportation Ltd.; entered service in 2012

Train-18 is probably as good as the semi-high speed options in the CRH like the CRH6.

A Nandy · Post by **A Nandy** » 29 Nov 2018 01:12

Moar T18!!!

https://www.livemint.com/Politics/FMXtJ ... start.html

Train 18, India’s first engine-less semi-high-speed train, is likely to start operations by 15 December, a senior railway ministry official told PTI. The train, which is set to replace Shatabdi Express, completed its first trial successfully on Monday. It ran at a speed of 115 km per hour (kmph) on tracks in Moradabad. “We have successfully achieved a speed of 120 kmph during trials. We will achieve a speed of 160 kmph and run the train likely by December 15,” PTI quoted the official as saying. The second trial run of the fully air-conditioned Train 18 will be conducted in Kota, where the train will be tested at 160 km per hour.

souravB · Post by **souravB** » 29 Nov 2018 01:27

A Nandy wrote:Moar T18!!!

Just a small nitpicking, the driver seat base platform could have been higher or the console panel could be kept lower as to give the driver a perfect view of the track.
since it is a prototype, I'm sure the production version will take these small details into consideration to make a truly world class product.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Nov 2018 01:38

how do we know where the drivers view focuses at? it could be optimized already, an external pic wont show much.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 29 Nov 2018 01:56

Some of the 'nitpicks' about Train 18 are really missing the wood for the trees. I'm much more interested in IR's available information on how this train operates. What sort of ATCS and in cab signalling platforms are they developing ? At higher speeds, visual signaling is less reliable, and automated signaling or signal transmission to the cabin is necessary. I hope they devise their own standard and not use a wholesale imported standard for this.

souravB · Post by **souravB** » 29 Nov 2018 04:57

I could find a paper of IRs HS-ATC system concept. It seems like IR is legit working on improving the signaling. Some of the ideas are truly TFTA like using Optical fibers for network connection.
High Speed-Automatic Train Control System
The paper is a good read and keeps me optimistic about the future rail travel.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Nov 2018 08:09

5500 gps devices that indicate location of signals have started to be issued to loco drivers on fog prone stretches this winter

Also human fogmen will be deployed and place loud detonators on the tracks to catch overshooters when alerted by walkie talkie

Signal system in such areas being moved to semi auto from full auto

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Nov 2018 08:12

the train18 driver view is good. See youtube video previous page
You cannot demand the spherical maws view of a cyclist.
Its better than n700 shinkansen think

Train20 is now 21. The tender errors are being corrected before issue. Mainly tech to build aluminium coaches is being sought

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 29 Nov 2018 11:03

https://rightlog.in/2018/11/piyush-goya ... ilways-01/
How Piyush Goyal gave a complete overhaul to Indian Railways
I

T has helped railways to modernize various operations and to reach the remotest locations of the country. The introduction of e-ticketing of unreserved tickets has made life easier for a regular traveler of suburban railway networks like Mumbai Suburban railway. The facility was introduced in 2015 and since has grown exponentially. The railways have also introduced various apps the ‘IRCTC Tourism App for Android Phones’ to book holiday packages. Some more apps introduced by Indian railways Menu on Rails, Rail MADAD, Apoorti App, Clean my Coach, IRCTC Rail Connect, UTS App, SFOORTI App, and Rail Saarthi. The transportation giant also revamped and made it more user-friendly. Many new measures were introduced on the website including improved filtering, waitlist prediction, new filters and multi-stage platform usages.The railway is also introducing digital library and will introduce 22 digital screens in different locations to showcase India’s rail heritage to a global audience via Virtual Reality, Videos, Audio Clips, and Pictures.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 29 Nov 2018 12:59

Suraj wrote:Some of the 'nitpicks' about Train 18 are really missing the wood for the trees.

This only reflects poor knowledge of Train tech by us posters here.

and NOT something about Train 18 necessarily.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Nov 2018 14:28

the final step is a big bang cutover of the mid 1980s CMC coded IRCTC core reservation engine (its solid but badly out of date in tech terms) into a distributed dynamically scaled cloud based "reservation hive" that will meet todays and future needs including lots of new service enablements. a solid website and a good app.

given vast volumes of data on customers, analytics firms will be willing to pay to get anonymized access to all that - which will defray some of the power bills.

A Nandy · Post by **A Nandy** » 29 Nov 2018 21:22

You mean a Beowulf cluster of hives?

T18 at Kota for high speed trials

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Nov 2018 21:32

Any tech that can handle massive number of concurrent reader/writer transactions with redundancy and mirroring i suppose and soothing web and app front end thats refreshes fast

The airline booking systems like galileo do it

The front ends are like expedia, orbitz etc but all funnel into a few core back ends

Financial stock trading systems do it at vast scale

Visa mastercard do it

A Nandy · Post by **A Nandy** » 29 Nov 2018 22:12

Yeah there is an opportunity here to develop the tech and compete with AWS, Azure. Some work would have been done for the GST network, though this demands many magnitudes higher throughput.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Nov 2018 08:06

they have removed the smooth cover on front of T18 to expose the coupler for towing. will be put back in normal use.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Nov 2018 08:10

NFR film on the 100km long BG line under work from Jiribam to Imphal.
it will have the worlds tallest girder bridge (191m) and india's longest rail tunnel

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Nov 2018 08:17

train to mizoram from silchar . Passenger services started on this line on 27 May 2016 by formal inauguration of Silchar - Bhairabi Passenger Train service (55667/55668). upto bhairabi there is a valley they have used. from there to aizawl will be like the imphal line all hills for some 60km when it comes to extending

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Nov 2018 08:20

the road from Dimapur to Kohima 45km is being 4 laned since last year ... idea is all NE capitals must have 4 laned connectivity and train connection also. I think Aizawl, Shillong, Gangtok and Kohima are left to connect by rail - Itanagar and Agartala are done and Imphal is ongoing.

meghalaya western part has been connected by rail to GHY from a place called mendipathar but its just across the border not deep inside.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Nov 2018 08:32

from a place called Sonapur which is main E-W line in assam, they have pushed through a line to Meghalaya border on the NH a place called Byrnihat.
its up the hills for another 60km to reach Shillong and NFR is prepared to do it, but local "NGOs" (aka cats paws) are opposing fearing "influx of outsiders" (who for some reason cannot take the train to GHY and then sneak in by bus and foot!) . local MLAs are also putting roadblocks refusing to part with their lands!

here is inspection run of the line to byrnihat

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Nov 2018 08:47

found on QUORA

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-softw ... m-of-IRCTC

All the information technology related activities for Indian railways are handled by one umbrella organization CRIS (Centre for Railway information services ) set up in 1986.
It handles the task of designing, developing and implementing the Indian ticket reservation system.
CRIS has developed PRS – PASSENGER RESERVATION SYSTEM providing reservation services to nearly 1.5 to 2.2 million passengers a day on over 2500 trains running throughout the country.
he PRS is available at over 8000 counters in more than 2380 locations throughout the country. Passengers can reserve a berth for any train 90 days in advance. In addition to the railway counters, multiple delivery channels have been provided to Rail passengers to access the PRS services.

The PRS Application CONCERT (Country-wide Network of Computerized Enhanced Reservation and Ticketing) is the world’s largest online reservation application, developed and maintained by CRIS. The system currently operates from 5 Data centers.
New Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkata, Chennai and Secunderabad

CONCERT architecture is based on the state of the art technology using 3-tier client-server distributed transaction processing paradigm.

The server clusters are connected together by a core network based on a mesh of 02×02 Mbps leased lines. It is an on-line client server application developed in ‘C’ .
Server for hosting -Blade servers having 64-Bit Itanium 9340 Processor
Operating System- Open VMS 8.4
Database- In-house CRIS proprietary
Middleware-HP Reliable Transaction Router (RTR)
Frontend-DEC Forms, C and FORTRAN as development tools
Communication Systems- CISCO routers using 2Mbps DOT lines
Network Topology- Mesh Topology
Network protocol- TCPIP, DECNET

I-Ticketing and E-ticketing and through Internet was launched in year 2002 and 2005 respectively.

Irctc website whose frontend has been developed by CRIS and software for running the application is provided by broadvision.
BroadVision integrates the legacy system with the existing reservation system, and verifying credit card information in real-time as bookings had to be confirmed on the Passenger Reservation System (PRS) of the railways immediately.
It follows three-tier architecture.

Presentation Layer—IIS 6.0 on Windows 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition at Web Servers Layer (6 servers) with 128 bit SSL GSID Certificate for secure transmission.
• Application Layer—Broad Vision Enterprise on Windows 2000 Advanced Server ( 40 Servers)
• Database Layer—Oracle 10g Enterprise Edition on Windows 2000 Advanced Server
Server side programming -Asp .NET,Java
Client Side-Javascript ,Jquery
Design - HTML,CSS

Few more projects which CRIS is handling are below:

Unreserved Ticketing System.
Control Office Application
Freight Operations Information System.
Software Aided Train Scheduling
Web National Train Enquiry System
Information Source : http://cris.org.in

A Nandy · Post by **A Nandy** » 30 Nov 2018 12:46

C and FORTRAN as development tools

What they need is the MEAN stack http://mean.io/

A Nandy · Post by **A Nandy** » 30 Nov 2018 12:50

High speed trials have begun!!

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 30 Nov 2018 14:38

A Nandy wrote:Moar T18!!!
https://www.livemint.com/Politics/FMXtJ ... start.html

Train 18, India’s first engine-less semi-high-speed train, is likely to start operations by 15 December, a senior railway ministry official told PTI. The train, which is set to replace Shatabdi Express, completed its first trial successfully on Monday. It ran at a speed of 115 km per hour (kmph) on tracks in Moradabad. “We have successfully achieved a speed of 120 kmph during trials. We will achieve a speed of 160 kmph and run the train likely by December 15,” PTI quoted the official as saying. The second trial run of the fully air-conditioned Train 18 will be conducted in Kota, where the train will be tested at 160 km per hour.

It would be phenomenal in such a slow-moving and risk averse organization as the Indian Railways that they are able to unleash an entirely new design on the public with about 2 months of testing, and that too for high-speed service. Yes, it is based on LHB, and yes LHB is rated for 160kmph, but there is a lot of new stuff - new propulsion, significant change to structure & weight distribution, braking, controls, pantographs - that I am a little worried. If it has to debut with a Shatabdi, they should pick the slowest one.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Nov 2018 14:46

Ddm at work.
By dec15 high speed trials will finish
Then rdso will write a report
Several levels of review and signoffs to start service
About a year from now i think

A Nandy · Post by **A Nandy** » 30 Nov 2018 20:22

the road from Dimapur to Kohima 45km is being 4 laned since last year ... idea is all NE capitals must have 4 laned connectivity and train connection also. I think Aizawl, Shillong, Gangtok and Kohima are left to connect by rail - Itanagar and Agartala are done and Imphal is ongoing.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 112606.cms

Trying to track down the target completion dates.

Mizoram:
Aizwal after 2020, any updates on it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bairabi%E ... irang_line

Its further 51.38 km Bairabi Sairang line extension from Bairabi to Sairang (20 km north of Aizawl) in Mizoram is under construction, with target completion date of March 2019 as per status update in March 2016.[5][6] Due to Rainy season and Compensation issues, date of completion has been revised to March 2020.

Manipur:
Imphal line probably by 2020
https://manipurchronicle.net/2018/11/28 ... -deadline/

Nagaland:
Kohima doubtful by 2020?
http://www.easternmirrornagaland.com/di ... -on-track/
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 972115.cms

Meghalaya:
Shillong - political issues

Sikkim:
Gangtok - Sevoke-Rongpo Railway Project
Forest land issues.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Nov 2018 20:28

roads and rails both being poor in these hills, its tough to move men and machinery efficiently or build momentum at multiple places. one of the videos said only 6 months work possible (winter) due to rains.

imphal and aizawl will get done for sure. I am not sure funds are committed to dimapur - kohima yet.
shillong-byrnihat is probably based on political movements than technical. they can just follow in general the current NH via nongpoh and umium lake. shillong is 1600m AGL, GHY is 126m AGL and distance around 100km only the part near umium lake is really steep climb

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Nov 2018 20:32

https://www.railway-technology.com/proj ... sikkimrai/

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Nov 2018 20:36

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 01 Dec 2018 01:17

Where is it mentioned that Train 18 coaches are based on LHB ones ? They look very different in their interiors, beyond being two metal tubes. LHB looks like the 30 year old technology it is. Train 18 is quite chic, with a large toilet and vestibule area, touch operated doors into the passenger seating areas like in Shinkansen and Euro SHSR/HSRs , and most importantly, Train 18 is an EMU and not a locomotive driven system like LHB coaches, and therefore its coaches have power electricals and motive systems in the bogies that LHB coaches don't.

Based on just how impressive Train 18 is, for something that came out of nowhere within a very short amount of time at a very low cost, I'm looking forward to seeing how Train 20/21 looks.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Dec 2018 01:30

A Nandy · Post by **A Nandy** » 01 Dec 2018 02:42

Yeah apparently the electrical wires above the DFC are all above that height to allow double stacking. The electric loco pantographs have to extend fully to reach them.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 01 Dec 2018 02:45

New rule by Indian Railways to increase chances of confirmed tickets.

Come January, woes of waitlisted Indian Railways passengers will end! From next year onwards, even if a railway ticket is cancelled after the train has started from its origin destination, the information will be directly sent to the TTE. This would allow vacant berths or seats to be immediately given to the waitlisted passengers on the subsequent stations. The decision has been made by Piyush Goyal-led Railway Ministry in a bid to enhance passenger-friendly amenities and services. The move has already been used as a pilot project in some Shatabdi Express and Rajdhani Express trains. Now, it will be implemented on other trains as well, a railway ministry official told Financial Express Online. For this facility, the TTEs will be provided with hand-held terminal devices. These hand-held terminal devices will be directly connected to the railway server and every update on the tickets will be immediately sent to the terminal.

Till now, the TTE used to wait for the passenger for the next two stations, after seeing an empty seat. Even if the train had vacant seats, waitlisted passengers were unable to get confirmed accommodation. Moreover, the process of refund was initiated only after the report was put out for display by the TTE. However, with the commencement of this new system, if a ticket is cancelled by the passenger, the TTE would be notified immediately. Moreover, once the terminal is updated, the waitlisted passengers will be assigned to confirmed seats. Also, the process of refund on cancellation of tickets will start immediately.

As it would be difficult for the national transporter to provide a large number of hand-held terminal devices to all the TTEs together, the work would be done in two phases. Under the first phase of the project, 500 hand-held terminal devices will be provided to TTEs and under the second phase of the project, as many as 8000 devices will be given. After implementing the project across all Shatabdi, Rajdhani and Duronto Express trains, the terminal devices will be handed over to TTEs of all other Mail and Express trains.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Dec 2018 14:45

Mubarak ho boys! train 18 has easily reached 160 - video proof with speedometer - yesterday in Kota
told ya with a light pakfa type airframe, 160 is no big deal, its manhandling a 25 rake LHB an32 chassis @ 160 that needs a real man like a WAP4

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Dec 2018 15:07

I assume we are still going ahead with the 1000 diesel engine deal , despite noises that heavy diesels may be phased out in favour of ++ on the 1000 engine electric deal ?

WDG6 was in trial a year ago and WDG4G is ready - is GOI going ahead with the 6000hp WDG6 ?

the corresponding WAG12 is 12,000hp but is more like 2 engines glued together. a russian system has 4 together for a 17,000 hp complex.

note the american engines its towing for trials are taller, bigger and more wheat n meaty

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Dec 2018 21:44

How are engines meant for India tested in the US. Seperate private Broad gauge tracks. I thought most US tracks were Standard guage

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Dec 2018 22:22

yes factory tracks I think. union pacific alone has 8500 locos.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 02 Dec 2018 05:49

Train 18 clocks 170 kmph speed! Indian Railways engine-less train now eyes the 180 kmph mark during trials.

Train 18, India’s first engine-less train set, has clocked speeds of 170 kmph during its trials by RDSO – making it the fastest Indian Railways train! Sudhanshu Mani, GM of ICF told Financial Express Online that the self-propelled Train 18 clocked 170 kmph during the ongoing trials today and is likely to be tested at 180 kmph tomorrow. “I can confirm that 170 kmph speed was attained during the trials today, but the data from the tests is yet to be analysed,” Sudhanshu Mani told Financial Express Online. Currently, Gatimaan Express between Delhi and Jhansi is the fastest Indian Railways train at 160 kmph speed. If Train 18 attains speeds of 180 kmph during trials, it will become the first Indian Railways train to achieve this feat – the only other train to have done so on Indian tracks is Spain’s Talgo.

While Train 18 will be tested at 180 kmph speed on a section of the Delhi-Mumbai Rajdhani route, but will eventually run at a maximum speed of 160 kmph. According to RDSO officials, a new train is normally tested at 10% higher than the speed it is expected to run at. The trials are expected to be complete in December itself after which RDSO will prepare its report. Train 18, manufactured by ICF under the ‘Make in India’ initiative has been envisioned as a modern, technologically superior replacement to the Shatabdi Express trains.

Speculation is rife about the route that will be finalised for Train 18 by Railway Ministry. Sources have told Financial Express Online that apart from the Delhi-Bhopal route, on which the fastest Shatabdi Express runs, the Varanasi route is also being considered. Varanasi is Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Lok Sabha constituency.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Dec 2018 12:24

Kolkata metro is only metro in india with non AC coaches!
Ministry of transport has asked to move to ac asap but didi and her govt are nitpicking on icf supplied metros and delaying the process?

Kol metro will be laughing stock if they remain as non ac more like faster tram of old. Not sure if these ancient trams still ply?
Is the mighty hm ambassador still in display inside dum dum ?

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 02 Dec 2018 12:50

But if you go through the SSC forums, all problems with Kolkata Metro are the fault of CG and their "step motherly attitude" towards Kolkata.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 02 Dec 2018 17:11

Train 18 hitting 180 kmph. Decent stability as well.
Really waiting to see the 'Coin Stability check' in our HSR.