Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

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vsunder
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 31 Mar 2019 05:35

hanumadu wrote:vsunder ji, Are there any routes that can take advantage of the full speed of Vande Bharath express? What needs to be done to bring the infrastructure to enable semi high speeds to ply? Signalling, tracks, bridges or something else?
Will the new lines (double, triple and quadruple lines) that are being laid enable those speeds?


Short answer is no. You might be able to run 160kmph in bursts as does the Bhopal Shatabdi, but above that you need in cab signalling to maintain a consistent speed, British era bridges refurbished and high density tracks (60 kg/m and higher density) to Class A standards. Howrah-Delhi, Mumbai-Delhi via Vadodara and Konkan Railways are at Class A level with high density steel tracks. Even Chennai-Bangalore is a Class B track. Also the main line has to be a non-platform line, that is if it is not, the train has to slow down and worse if it gets looped you really need to slow down as you have to pass over points/turnouts. You also need thick webbed switches and 1:30 turnouts or else again one slows down. Train 18 is lighter and can speed up quickly after slowing down, even then it is not enough if there are numerous such slow downs and speed ups. For example it can do Delhi-Varanasi a bit faster, since from Prayagraj to Varanasi it travels on single line track via Janghai and this is not a Class A line and so it cannot even travel at a good speed. Once it reaches Prayagraj and onwards to Delhi it hits its stride. So simply doubling Prayagraj-Varanasi via Janghai and using better quality rails will allow Train 18 to do better. Even better replacing or refurbishing older bridges and culverts.

You might have noticed a board on the side on rail tracks that consists of a yellow circle with two horizontal yellow bands one above and one below the circle. That is a warning to the pilot that a signal light is being approached which might be in a curve etc. It is called a sighting board. Such visual markers will flash by too quickly at high speeds and a moments inattention or in the dark will be catastrophic if ignored. Then the signal light will be upon you suddenly. This reliance on visual markers has to be done away with on high speed lines.
Last edited by vsunder on 31 Mar 2019 18:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby hanumadu » 31 Mar 2019 05:51

^^Thanks!

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kakkaji » 04 Apr 2019 06:30

Indian Railways gets 1st indigenous 9,000 HP electric locomotive! Faster freight, passenger trains coming soon

Indian Railways gets its first ‘Make in India’ 9,000 HP electric locomotive! In an engineering feat for the national transporter, the Chittaranjan Locomotive Works (CLW) has rolled out Indian Railways’ first indigenous 9,000 HP electric locomotive. Last year, Indian Railways got a 12,000 HP electric locomotive, but that was manufactured by French major Alstom in Bihar’s Madehepura in a joint venture with Indian Railways. This is the first time that Indian Railways’ own locomotive units have manufactured an electric locomotive of such high horsepower. Speaking to Financial Express Online, a CLW official said that the new 9,000 HP locomotive has been made by upgrading a 6,000 HP electric locomotive, and with this movement of both freight and passenger trains will speed up. The new locomotive has been upgraded at an incremental cost of Rs 1.06 crore.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Zynda » 04 Apr 2019 06:57

This article has better tech content about WAG-9HH
New 9,000 hp WAG-9 HH Locomotive Rolls Out of CLW

This 9,000 hp version of the WAG-9H has been classified by IR as WAG-9 HH. The first H stands for higher axle load and the second H stands for the higher power rating. The class has been allocated a block of serial numbers starting with 90001, the number of the first unit.


Nevertheless, several modifications were required to upgrade the loco to a higher power rating. In addition, several new features have also been introduced in the WAG-9HH.


Image

One major feature is the addition of a data-logger incorporated into the system. The system will monitor and record all vital parameters of the locomotive and the actions of the crew. The output of the data logger can be used for working improvements and to investigate abnormal events like locomotive failures or derailments/accidents.

The new WAG-9HH will also have a device to that will enable continuous tracking through GPS. An arrangement to link the device in future to a central server through wireless link, thus enabling real-time remote monitoring and troubleshooting, has been provided.

A third important feature is the use of an open-source software architecture of international standards. This will ensure that IR will not be dependent on third-party vendors supplying proprietary software. IR can freely modify or upgrade the software at any stage of the service life of the locomotive.


All axles will be individually driven, ensuring improved adhesion. Improved adhesion translates into higher hauling power. Individual drive on all axles also ensures that the failure of any individual drive or traction motor will not result in complete loco failure.

The locomotive will also have an upgraded and modified arrangement to ensure better cooling of the equipment. This will enable trouble-free continuous working in the typically Indian high heat and dust environment that these units are going to inhabit.

The locomotive also gets an upgraded traction motor design and strengthened bogies to handle the additional power available.

A new feature not seen so far on any IR locomotive is a Speed Preset. The feature will allow setting of a predetermined target speed by the loco pilot. The locomotive will then continue to accelerate the train till the target speed is reached, within the overall control restrictions that are fed into the software.

However, if the loco is running at a speed higher than the preset speed, braking action will be initiated to bring the speed down to the target level. This feature should help simplify the work of a loco pilot.

Redundancy in the locomotive software, hardware and electrical equipment will be better managed to ensure that the failure of a single sub-system shall normally not result in the complete failure of the locomotive.

More units, and 9,000 hp WAP-7 in the offing?

IR had ordered propulsion equipment for 13 units of 9,000 hp locomotives in late 2017 and early 2018. This includes five units of the proposed 9,000 hp WAP-7 class locomotives. Siemens was awarded the bulk of these purchase orders, followed by Medha and BHEL.

The WAG-9 HH prototype that has been rolled out will now undergo field and oscillation trials. If the results are satisfactory, the class will go into serial production soon after and enter revenue service.


Not yet entered in to service. I will have to do some research to dig out specs put out by RSDO for 9,000 HP WAP-7. Recently, WAP-7 was upgraded to have a max speed of 160 Kph & it was designated as WAP-7SH I think. A 9000 HP power output with 160 Kph speed potential seems nice although most trains still will be capped at 110 Kph MPS. The benefit will be faster acceleration to track speed and lower power consumption to maintain that speed.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby A Nandy » 06 Apr 2019 02:24

LHB couplers continue to have serious problems.

https://www.railpost.in/bhubaneshwar-de ... t-cuttack/

Seems parting happened outside Cuttack on a bridge!

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby sumsumne » 07 Apr 2019 19:51

Stumbled across Sudhanshu Mani's blog
https://anindecisiveindian.blogspot.com/2019/04/blog-train-18-series-26there-is-nothing.html?view=flipcard

Interesting log of Train 18 and ICF Chennai.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vasu raya » 20 Apr 2019 20:17

Derailment near Kanpur,



The new LHB coaches have better safety features, no telescoping of coaches seen, no crumpling either of the bogies, for a train traveling at 100kmph people walked away just with injuries, a major improvement

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 20 Apr 2019 22:49

NR is still a mess.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby suryag » 20 Apr 2019 23:40


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 21 Apr 2019 01:32

Indian summers are getting hotter and this places stresses on rails with hot days and relatively cooler nights. Let us wait for the accident panel to release its findings on the Rooma derailment. The old method of tapping wheels and rails with a hammer should go and modern ultrasonic methods brought in. Kanpur-Prayagraj where Rooma is situated is a very busy section with Varanasi Train 18, Durontos and Rajdhanis. Track utilization is way beyond 100%. EDFC when it starts will help in initiating traffic and power blocks for needed track replacement and repair work on this section.

In related news almost all Railway zones failed way beyond in their 2018-2019 targets for doubling and new lines. Central Railway achieved only 15% of the targets and is the worst performer, and the highest by any zone was 45%. Most of the deficits have been pushed over to the next fiscal.

In track commissioning Makalidurga-Deerapalli 36 km doubling and electrification on the Bangalore-Hyderabad and Bangalore-Mumbai and Bangalore-Delhi routes has been commissioned last week. MPS(maximum permissible speed ) on the new track is just a measly 75kmph. The older single line is out of service to carry out necessary repairs and refurbishment on this extremely busy section. Takkolam-Arrakonam is also commissioned with disruptions in service between Chennai-Bangalore and Coimbatore-Chennai and Kerala-Chennai during the commissioning process over 4 days. Happened during the elections in TN.

https://youtu.be/pdxaC_582lU

Lots of progress doubling between Bangalore-Hubbali

Bridge across Tungabhadra river at Harihar
https://youtu.be/gP0uIFukAiM

Also many traffic blocks taken between Wadsinge-Bhalwani on Chennai-Mumbai route preparatory to CRS inspection of doubled track in late May. With commissioning of that and Boroti-Kulali and Sawalgi-Gulbarga in late June, 85km of track between Chennai-Mumbai will be left for doubling. This doubling project has been gong on for 15 years, with massive ghotala by Congress governments, Mallikarjun Kharge and contractors. Modi after he came, showed the decisive leadership to complete the doubling of 276 km till 85 km is left and in progress. Also electrification tenders have been given and work should start soon between Bhigwan and Gulbarga electrification.

Hubli-Bangalore is 410 km out of which 74 km was doubled by UPA. After Modi
essentially 150 km is left for doubling. The bridges etc you are seeing ^^^ is on that remaining 150km. In the next few months more block sections will be doubled. Electrification is also sanctioned.

Similarly on Londa-Miraj-Pune line track linking for doubling has started around Belgaum and many sections simultaneously OHE work can be seen. Between Kolhapur and Miraj, wiring is done so electric locos should start.
Last edited by vsunder on 21 Apr 2019 01:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Zynda » 21 Apr 2019 01:37

Sunder saar, will the MPS be increased gradually to match the speed limit on the current existing older line?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 21 Apr 2019 01:45

Zynda wrote:Sunder saar, will the MPS be increased gradually to match the speed limit on the current existing older line?


Yes, CRS must have made this a condition. Once the earthworks settle and tamp down, MPS will be increased to 100kmph and then 110 kmph. I hope some of the powerful electrics on IR are used on these steep Deccan gradients. In another news, Kallur-Khaderpet-Guntakal doubling went through CRS inspection. From the video it appears that the new double line is not electrified(the older single line is electrified), OHE work is taking place though, poles in and wiring in major sections. This line bypasses Gooty and trains from Bangalore towards, Mumbai and Delhi can just go on this bypass from Kalluru and straight to Guntakal. The saving in time between Bangalore and Mumbai and Bangalore and Delhi is an hour as the distance has been shortened by 30kms and the halt at Gooty eliminated. DRM Guntakal had tweeted from aboard the CRS inspection coach. It will also increase line capacity.

Also railway electrification Bangalore-Hosur-Omalur(next to Salem Jn.) has gathered steam, with depots of poles, wiring equipment and TSS's(traction sub-stations) being constructed. This is the start of suburban rail for Bangalore with EMU services. One such depot is at Rayyakottai RS between Marandahalli and Hosur.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby tandav » 21 Apr 2019 07:59

Any chance of privatization of Railways? It will unlock a huge potential. GoI has used the railways as essentially an employment scheme causing huge inefficiencies

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby jpremnath » 21 Apr 2019 13:40

tandav wrote:Any chance of privatization of Railways? It will unlock a huge potential. GoI has used the railways as essentially an employment scheme causing huge inefficiencies


Privatisation of railways haven't proved to be successful. UK is a prime case study...It needn't be any different in India. The railways needs government support for many things. Private enterprises work best when they are given a blank sheet to create their own service. Asset heavy businesses will be a mill around the neck for anyone who ventures in.

Plus think about the investment needed to make it world class. Upgrading the signalling itself will cost billions. Changing all the current creaky coaches to T18 level will cost a fortune. Without the above, no one can dream about raising the ticket prices.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 21 Apr 2019 13:42

Just quoting one failure is not sufficient evidence. There are successful countries with private railways.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 21 Apr 2019 13:44

Besides IR is burdened with too many things with the result that it does none very efficiently. If we can have private buses, ships and planes there is no reason why we can't have private railways.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 21 Apr 2019 14:05

jpremnath wrote:Privatisation of railways haven't proved to be successful. UK is a prime case study...It needn't be any different in India.


You may want to have a look at Japan as an example. Every experience need not be the same.
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby srin » 21 Apr 2019 14:06

tandav wrote:Any chance of privatization of Railways? It will unlock a huge potential. GoI has used the railways as essentially an employment scheme causing huge inefficiencies


"privatization" is a loaded term here. What privatization do you refer to - private tracks or private trains or private stations or private food catering or private ticketing or private everything ?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby jpremnath » 21 Apr 2019 14:27

Kashi wrote:
You may want to have a look at Japan as an example. Every experience need not be the same.


Yes..Japan is running a tight ship..But there again the govt took 14billion dollars of debt to unload those railways. And some divisions are running at loss...And we need to see that people in India can't afford the ticket prices needed to sustain a successful operation like those in Japan and Europe can. We probably might have to double or triple the current prices to make it work...

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby siqir » 21 Apr 2019 16:51

we manage to beat rest of world in telco per gb data rates
we did not learn that from americans europeans chinese or japanese

there is no magic trick required here
just ensuring competition

next goi should bite the bullet and get the sarkari babus to let go

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby jpremnath » 21 Apr 2019 17:00

It will be another NPA disaster...All our telcos are neck deep in debt and things look good only for Jio. If we need an efficient Railway service, massive investments need to be pumped in for doubling/quadupling tracks..changing the coaches to decent quality..changing signalling systems..no private party would like to spend those 100s of billions of dollars which will be needed...

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby siqir » 21 Apr 2019 17:12

somehow private players are investing in buying hundreds of planes instead

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby jpremnath » 21 Apr 2019 18:33

siqir wrote:somehow private players are investing in buying hundreds of planes instead


They have to buy only the planes. When you say privatise the railways; the process will involve govt selling routes, trains and stations..how much do you think an operator will have to cough up to buy all these?..
Or you mean privatise only the operations? Train 18 cost 100 crores to make...any operator will need hundreds of such trains to have a decent network. He will be taking billions of dollars in loans even before he can start any operations. And all for what?..he wont be able to break even unless he is able to increase ticket prices...

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 21 Apr 2019 19:04

No need to privatize, our own case shows that if government has its mind in right place it can accomplish things even with huge org such as IR. Have you guys seen the prices of airline tickets? We don't want same thing to happen with railways.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby srin » 21 Apr 2019 19:32

A couple of points:
- There is a case for "public-izing" (as in publicly listed) instead of "privatizing". IRCTC and IRFC are going IPO, IRCON is already public. So, it is conceivable that some more parts can be listed - say ICF. There is a long way to go for core rail operations, stations etc. Last I heard, they didn't use double-entry accounting, so all the governance systems need to be upgraded.
- Some piecemeal corporatization (whether listed or privately owned) is conceivable in next decade - like some stations and some trains (maybe thematic - like a private palace on wheels). After all, some airports - BLR, HYD - are private. But don't think it'll happen soon.

I don't think wholesale privatization will happen for next few decades atleast, if ever.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 21 Apr 2019 21:50

You need to privatize only the services like trains, stations perhaps food and services. Tracks, signaling, etc will be govt owned which will be used by private operators on payment of charges. Just like it is stupid for say Air India to run everything like planes, services, airports, ATC, hotels, etc which we don't do it is not efficient for IR to run everything. Privatization of stations has already started with Habibganj, Gandhinagar, Lucknow. There is some privatization with freight. With the DFCs further privatization should start. Passenger services privatization will be coming sometime in future. IR should focus only on infra development and maintenance.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 25 Apr 2019 23:58

Drone video of u/c India's first private (PPP) railway station at Habibganj, Bhopal.

https://youtu.be/H8Wsv7nqVpg

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 27 Apr 2019 08:54

Circular trains Chennai Beach--> Kanchipuram----> Arrakonam----> Tiruvallur--->Chennai Beach have commenced after commissioning of Takkolam-Arrakonam track with electrification. With this Chennai division of SR has no more non-electrified lines. This ends a more than 10 year saga and tussle between Indian Navy and Railways and the Navy banning electrification along the perimeter walls of INS Rajali at Arakkonam home of Orion P-8's and then refusing the Railways money and partial reimbursement to build an alternative track far from the boundary wall where electrification could be carried out. At the last minute State Govt objected to the new tracks crossing a state highway and demanded a ROB. All those objections were sorted out at last. PMO's office had to intervene. Only this crap happens in India, that the PMO sometimes has to act like PWD.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/ ... ssion=true

It may also help decongest Chennai Central suburban station part.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby nandakumar » 27 Apr 2019 17:02

A question for vsunder Sir or anyone familiar with Chennai suburban railway network. Wouldn't it make more sense for Southern Railway to operate Gummidipoondi/Tada suburban trains from Fort Station. The present arrangement of operating from Moore Market Complex results in suburban trains crossing with long distance trains bound for the West and beyond. Fort Station has six platforms. Enough to run Beach Tambaram and Velachery MRTS.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sridhar K » 27 Apr 2019 19:19

nandakumar wrote:A question for vsunder Sir or anyone familiar with Chennai suburban railway network. Wouldn't it make more sense for Southern Railway to operate Gummidipoondi/Tada suburban trains from Fort Station. The present arrangement of operating from Moore Market Complex results in suburban trains crossing with long distance trains bound for the West and beyond. Fort Station has six platforms. Enough to run Beach Tambaram and Velachery MRTS.

vSunder Saar or arshyam can correct me but the challenge was the line from Beach to Rayapuram was a single line shared by goods to Chennai port.

Only now read from BRF has been doubled after port trust shifted their compound to have way for the second line. Plus Beach Arakonam services also use this line and running the gummidipoondi services will also impact the Tambaram beach operations a bit.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Pratyush » 27 Apr 2019 20:12

Privatisation of trains services will not work as long as govt is in the business of running trains.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 27 Apr 2019 20:23

Sridhar K wrote:
nandakumar wrote:A question for vsunder Sir or anyone familiar with Chennai suburban railway network. Wouldn't it make more sense for Southern Railway to operate Gummidipoondi/Tada suburban trains from Fort Station. The present arrangement of operating from Moore Market Complex results in suburban trains crossing with long distance trains bound for the West and beyond. Fort Station has six platforms. Enough to run Beach Tambaram and Velachery MRTS.

vSunder Saar or arshyam can correct me but the challenge was the line from Beach to Rayapuram was a single line shared by goods to Chennai port.

Only now read from BRF has been doubled after port trust shifted their compound to have way for the second line. Plus Beach Arakonam services also use this line and running the gummidipoondi services will also impact the Tambaram beach operations a bit.


As Arshyam pointed out that that it was a very tight squeeze for 4 lines between Beach-->Rayapuram and Washermanpet. With land given by Madras Port trust the 4 lines can be laid but even then it seems a tight squeeze at places with ROB's. Moreover 30 crores was sanctioned to improve Moore Market and Basin Bridge to prevent detentions and to lay two new lines. This was in 2016 and I believe enough was sanctioned in the Railway Budget that year in March 2016 to fulfill a long standing demand of Chennaites:

https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/ch ... 311514.ece

Seems like this project is done and commissioned:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMwUHRVvf_c

Beyond this they could look into grade separators and rail over rail flyovers and underpasses, which are being built at many places on the DFC and on IR, one example where it is being built on IR at substantial cost is at Katni to prevent detentions in that busy yard.

They also wanted to lay down a new connecting line between Velacherry on MMRTS and Adambakkam and St. Thomas Mount. Do not know the status.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby nandakumar » 27 Apr 2019 21:20

I have a feeling that (This is pure speculation. So take it for what it is worth) the Southern Railway employees union does not want any out of the box thinking in the matter of decongesting the Central-Basin Bridge congestion. The staff at the headquarters will probably have to walk 100 mtrs extra if they have to go to Fort Station to board a train to Gummidipoondi instead of Moore Market Complex.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arshyam » 27 Apr 2019 21:43

nandakumar wrote:A question for vsunder Sir or anyone familiar with Chennai suburban railway network. Wouldn't it make more sense for Southern Railway to operate Gummidipoondi/Tada suburban trains from Fort Station. The present arrangement of operating from Moore Market Complex results in suburban trains crossing with long distance trains bound for the West and beyond. Fort Station has six platforms. Enough to run Beach Tambaram and Velachery MRTS.

No need to go to Fort, SR has a 9-platform terminal at Beach itself which they use today. In fact, most trains from Beach are extended to Velachery in the southern part of the city via the MRTS line, so Velachery itself is connected to Tiruttani, Arakkonam, Gummidipoondi directly, and these trains have become very popular.

Fort has only 4 suburban platforms, plus one on the express line that used by express trains and goods trains only. That's because 2 of these are for the Tambaram suburban section, 2 for MRTS, and 1 express/goods (between Egmore and Beach, the 2 express tracks reduce to 1 due to space constraints). There is not much scope to use this platform as more north/west bound express trains have started from Egmore and they use this track. There is no turnback facility, nor is there any stabling infra for extra rakes. A turnback facility could be added with new switch points if needed, but there is absolutely no space for extra stabling tracks. Anyway, all this is moot since Beach has all of this in abundance and is hardly a kilometre away. Since it has 9 platforms, it can also handle a lot more capacity than Fort ever could dream of.

Chennai metro (CMRL) if it takes over the MRTS line, has proposed using Fort as the terminal station for MRTS trains, primarily because their underground metro station is across the street, and they want to ease integration. I find it a harebrained scheme as it would duplicate infra at Fort that is already available at Beach, while not providing that much greater benefit to existing passengers. In fact, passengers from AJJ/GPD suburbs will come to Beach and not be able to take MRTS directly, so the latter will lose that ridership: they'll be forced to take the Tambaram bound trains for only one stop, and would rather take a direct bus to their destination at that point. Lastly, a CMRL owned MRTS could continue to start from Beach and provide connectivity with the suburban trains there, while offering the integrated connectivity for metro passengers CMRL wants to provide at Fort. Hence, my characterization as "hare-brained".

Now, your point was about Moore market: yes, it is true that GPD bound locals have to cross the AJJ-bound express fast tracks before Basin bridge. In fact, they might also end up crossing the GPD side fast tracks if SR decides to use the newly laid 3rd and 4th tracks for suburban trains (these are laid to right of the existing northbound tracks). But demand from MMC is very high, and given that the Central area is a hub for Tambaram-side suburban trains, MRTS, Chennai metro, MTC buses, the government General Hospital, etc. people would prefer to change here itself instead waiting to go to Beach and then taking the GPD bound trains. But if traffic congestion justifies it, SR could move all GPD trains to Beach instead of Central, and run some token/peak-hour services out of MMC, or even start them from Basin bridge itself. But whether this will be sufficient for AJJ-GPD connecting passengers remains to be seen (they change at Basin bridge today, which falls on the line to Central/MMC). It would be easier to run GPD bound locals alone from the main Central station: PF-2A is a short platform that can turn out local trains only every 10-15 mins. But this will have some impact on the express trains' rake and loco movement between Central and the Basin Bridge yard. This movement is not trivial given the number of trains handled at Central and SR may be loathe to disturb this.

Sridhar K wrote:
nandakumar wrote:A question for vsunder Sir or anyone familiar with Chennai suburban railway network. Wouldn't it make more sense for Southern Railway to operate Gummidipoondi/Tada suburban trains from Fort Station. The present arrangement of operating from Moore Market Complex results in suburban trains crossing with long distance trains bound for the West and beyond. Fort Station has six platforms. Enough to run Beach Tambaram and Velachery MRTS.

vSunder Saar or arshyam can correct me but the challenge was the line from Beach to Rayapuram was a single line shared by goods to Chennai port.

Only now read from BRF has been doubled after port trust shifted their compound to have way for the second line. Plus Beach Arakonam services also use this line and running the gummidipoondi services will also impact the Tambaram beach operations a bit.

No, it wasn't so bad earlier :). There were always two tracks between Beach and Royapuram, and now 2 more are coming up. They'll be ready in a month or two, per my own observation last week. So there will 4 tracks in total on this route. 2 dedicated for goods and express trains, and 2 for locals. This stretch is used to run locals between Beach and AJJ/Tiruttani as well as GPD. The significance is that there are now 4 tracks to both AJJ and Ennore, thereby ensuring faster clearance of goods trains to both Chennai port and Ennore ports, while allowing more suburban trains.

Now, Velachery-Beach-Arakkonam services are not as numerous as those to MMC. However, that was mostly due to the limited capacity between Royapuram and Beach, and could change. This could cause congestion near Vyasarpadi, where the main lines out of Central turn west and join the tracks out of Beach. My guess is that SR may not add a lot more services due to this very reason, but let's see. People can anyway change at Central, so its not a serious problem.

Tambaram services from Beach are completely isolated from the AJJ/GPD services, having 4 dedicated platforms and two tracks all the way to Tambaram. Only scenario would be the upcoming circular trains (Beach-Tambaram-Chengalpet-Kanchipuram-Arakkonam-Beach), but I don't expect them to be a lot in number to impact capacity; SR will add enough slack between services to affect punctuality. In fact, I think SR will stick to circular in network only - i.e. run locals on Beach-TBM-CGL-AJJ only, and the connecting AJJ-MMC/Beach will continue as it is today. But passengers can connect at AJJ as needed.

Glossary:
MAS: Chennai central
MMC: Moore market complex, the suburban terminal next to Chennai Central station.
Beach: Chennai Beach station, that is a suburban terminal next to the harbour
Park Town/Chennai Park: the MRTS and Tambaram-side suburban stations opposite Chennai Central
Fort: Chennai fort, intermediate station between Beach and Park
BBQ: Basin bridge, first station out of Central/MMC
AJJ: Arakkonam
GPD: Gummidipoondi

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sridhar K » 27 Apr 2019 22:01

vsunder wrote:[quote="Sridhar K

They also wanted to lay down a new connecting line between Velacherry on MMRTS and Adambakkam and St. Thomas Mount. Do not know the status.

This is a very old project and going at snails pace. My daily commute from 2011 to 2016 was along the route. The elevated structure is done from velachery end to Adambakkam till the last 1 kms which was stuck on land acquisitions issues. I infer that it is sorted out and work on the elevated stations started and going at snails pace.

The structure in the map is the station

https://maps.app.goo.gl/8oRAUnmZmakbSJzk8
The project was part of the original loop connecting velachery to alandur to Anna Nagar to villivakkam . The alandur annanagar leg is taken up by the metro


Arshyam Saar
Thanks a lot for the insights. Was the line doubled long back? Remember seeing a single line between beach and Royapuram especially near the port area when I used to commute to TN petro for inplant training in the mid 90s

With the increasing population, Tambaram Chinglepet cries for a frequency similar to Tambaram Beach line.
With the upcoming satellite bus terminus in urappakkam it is all the more important. Now they are planning to extend the metro there but looking at the mentality of the Chennai crowd, metro routes and frequency at MRTS rates would have been a big hit. Theree was also a plan for a line from Guduvanchery to Sriperumpudar that was announced in 2014 or 15 budget but was cancelled since SR did nothing and the allocated budget was withdrawn.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arshyam » 27 Apr 2019 22:01

vsunder wrote:
Sridhar K wrote:vSunder Saar or arshyam can correct me but the challenge was the line from Beach to Rayapuram was a single line shared by goods to Chennai port.

Only now read from BRF has been doubled after port trust shifted their compound to have way for the second line. Plus Beach Arakonam services also use this line and running the gummidipoondi services will also impact the Tambaram beach operations a bit.


As Arshyam pointed out that that it was a very tight squeeze for 4 lines between Beach-->Rayapuram and Washermanpet. With land given by Madras Port trust the 4 lines can be laid but even then it seems a tight squeeze at places with ROB's.
They have addressed most of this now, and the tracks look almost finished. See my next post.

vsunder wrote:Moreover 30 crores was sanctioned to improve Moore Market and Basin Bridge to prevent detentions and to lay two new lines. This was in 2016 and I believe enough was sanctioned in the Railway Budget that year in March 2016 to fulfill a long standing demand of Chennaites:

https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/ch ... 311514.ece

Seems like this project is done and commissioned:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMwUHRVvf_c
Yes, this was completed during Suresh Prabhu's time itself, and there are now eight tracks between BBQ and MAS (from left to right: 2 AJJ side suburban/slow, 2 AJJ side fast/express, 2 GPD side, 1 for loco movement to BBQ, 1 for rake movement to the BBQ yard). No more detentions for suburban trains between MMC and AJJ. Some unavoidable detention for the GPD trains as I had mentioned in the previous post. Express trains can now proceed at 30/45 till BBQ, with most turnouts at Central simplified and upgraded.

vsunder wrote:They also wanted to lay down a new connecting line between Velacherry on MMRTS and Adambakkam and St. Thomas Mount. Do not know the status.
This stretch has mostly finished construction of viaducts, and station work is underway. But the last 0.5km stretch just near St Thomas Mount has been stuck due to litigation with GoTN (which is responsible for land acquisition). Some vested interests shifted the original alignment for whatever reasons, and the newly affected went to court. That took some time before the court ruled in the govt's favour. Then further litigation happened due to the measly compensation offered (old vs new Land acquisition act) - apparently the High court has given the final verdict with enhanced compensation, but it may go to the supreme court if either party appeals. But my understanding is that the decks for acquisition and construction have been cleared, and only the amount of compensation could still be in question at SC. If all goes well, this stretch could be operational by 2020, making STM another hub (MRTS, TBM suburban, metro station, and potential halt for express trains). In the meantime, SR is planning to start services for 2 more stations beyond Velachery (3rd station would be STM) as the construction here is mostly finished.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arshyam » 27 Apr 2019 22:07

When leaving Beach:
Image

RPM station:
Image

Old RPM RoB:
Image

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arshyam » 27 Apr 2019 22:21

Sridhar K wrote:Arshyam Saar
Thanks a lot for the insights. Was the line doubled long back? Remember seeing a single line between beach and Royapuram especially near the port area when I used to commute to TN petro for inplant training in the mid 90s

Mid-90s? Could be, I don't know. There was also an MG track up to Tondiarpet to ferry oil tankers into the south, which was all MG back then. I believe there was a mixed gauge track between Beach-TNP then.

Sridhar K wrote:With the increasing population, Tambaram Chinglepet cries for a frequency similar to Tambaram Beach line.
With the upcoming satellite bus terminus in urappakkam it is all the more important.

A 3rd track is under construction, and SR is building it with a 4th track in mind, i.e. culverts have provision for another track, platforms have 2 tracks, etc.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Sridhar K » 27 Apr 2019 22:49

Thanks for reminding. Yes it was mixed gauge track then.

Hopefully the third track gets commissioned soon and they could increase the frequency especially with the circular railway getting completely electrified. The progress on IR under Modi Govt has been very good and is very visible in TN.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 28 Apr 2019 05:58

As PM Modi said in his interview with Kanwal, Kashyap etc at Varanasi, while talking to one of the women, that one of his first acts while taking over office was to ask for files on projects that were stuck. He went on to state that he was surprised that there were projects whose foundation stones were laid 40 years ago on which there was no movement. He then said that he decided to have conclaves of all the stake holders involved in the project and get it moving. Much of this can be seen on the Railways where projects stuck for a decade or more due to infighting between various Govt. departments got resolved and the projects moved forward. However, very little can be done when a State does not collaborate in LA and if the state is run by a rival party like KA where slow progress in LA on the part of the State has stymied a number of Railway projects. Even if a state is BJP like GJ and MH, LA issues have slowed WDFC and the Bullet train project, as for example the MH Govt with the Mumbai terminal of the Bullet train. Quite frankly it is quite annoying that the PMO has to get involved with the nitty gritty of a project, once it sets the direction and general outline and makes funds available after consultation with the States. Then the implementing organization and the States need to pick up the ball and follow the directives and achieve the aims.


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