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Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

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chetak
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 01 Oct 2017 12:01

Austin wrote:You cant really says Japan would not have supported infra of Railways and the funding take or leave was just for bullet trains we did not ask for Railway infra.

There is no harm in bullet train but it is only atm the priorities are wrong , The incident that happened in Mumbai could have taken place at any station or any time of the day , it is a common thing to see railways passenger get crushed while travelling or just having to cope if with crowd that is 4-5 times more than the infra we have. It is just that it happened now and there is no gurantee it wont happen in the near future.....Its a dogs life travelling in Mumbai trains except for non-peak hours were it is barely OK

Most of our railways infra are broken and Mumbai Suburban earns most for IR and it gets what it gets imaging for places where these dont even earn enough , So wrong priorities at wrong time in back drop of so many accidents and so many lives lost and still fixing what is broken is not a priority ......It takes a railways minister to do an audit when 25 people are dead when that should have been done much earlier...that is by an large the state of affairs we are in.


there is no room to enhance any infrastructure in places like bombay because every little shit illegally occupying foot path, govt/private land is backed by some politico with some axe to grind.

The infrastructure has simply been overwhelmed with nil chances of growth with the daily incoming economic migration into bombay numbering in their high thousands.

Something had to give. rain water, aka "flooding" is intrinsically tied to the high tide and its ebb and flow and there is no solution for this.

Airports, roads cannot expand because "vote bank" slum dwellers are purposely resettled in these lands by rapacious, rent seeking politicos.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby JohnTitor » 01 Oct 2017 15:48

Brilliantly stated chetak!

In fact, if you extrapolate that further, it is very difficult for India to ever have world class infrastructure because of several reasons: people's mentality, vote banks and corruption being the main ones. Just look at the new trains that were commissioned. One trip in and alk the toilet taps were ripped out to be sold elsewhere, toilets plastered with feces, and seats ripped or acreens damaged.

If you have ever travelled in UP/Bihar you will know that seat reservations mean zilch. In fact, train conductors won't even enforce it because of fear of their life. A train conductor was chucked out of a moving train for standing up for an elderly passenger - a relative witnessed this but could do nothing because they operate as gangs.

IMHO bullet trains are not worth it in india because of the constant threat of miscreants and terrorists. Some damage to the track and the train travelling at 300kph will break apart. It is inevitable in India, unfortunately.

I don't imagine anything will ever change much. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 01 Oct 2017 20:14

I think you guys are being negative. I see improvements all around in iterations. I will go back to what I have said many times before. India is a continent very diverse like Europe. You have to go through many frustrations to improve as getting 1.3 billion people to have the same vision amidst poverty is a challenge.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby JohnTitor » 01 Oct 2017 21:23

^^ Not sure what part you consider negative. Everything I stated is fact and this has been the case since at least the 90s. Not muxh has changed.

Look at swatch bharat. I was travelling by public bus (inter city) a few weeks ago and at the stops you have sweepers cleaning the concourses. Yet at the same time people continue to throw rubbish on the floor. When questioned, the response I got was the cleaners will clean it. So now all that has happened is employment creation in the name of cleanliness. People's attitudes haven't changed a bit.

In developed countries people have a sense of civic duty and will assert that. Below is an example.

https://youtu.be/jTOugK41G7Y

But this is just a sample. Having lived outside india all my life, it is just taken for granted not to litter. Education is part of it but it starts at home, if you watch your parents do things that your books advise against, you are more likely to follow in their footsteps.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 01 Oct 2017 21:40

OT but we have discussed this before. The West didn't become the west in a single day. The only place where such practices have taken root rapidly is SE Asia. Have you realized the fact that 90% of Indians live in conditions which can be called glorified slums by western or even SE Asian standards? Have you realized the fact that that was how things were till a guy came up with Swacch Bharat mission? Have you realized the fact that 3 lakh villages turned ODF in less than three years when someone explained to them why it was important? It is a process and habits do not change overnight. If you have kept people in poor, unhygenic conditions for 70 years you will not suddenly wake up with Singapore. And whining is not going to get us there.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Gagan » 01 Oct 2017 21:42

Err,
John Titor.
The US does not have a bullet train does it? Or a plan or the finances to acquire one in the near future?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Zynda » 01 Oct 2017 21:50

Amtrak runs a high-speed train service called Acela on its North-East Corridor route (Boston-Wash DC). Not exactly bullet-train but on certain sections, it runs at 150 mph top speed.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Vidur » 01 Oct 2017 22:24

chetak wrote:
Austin wrote:You cant really says Japan would not have supported infra of Railways and the funding take or leave was just for bullet trains we did not ask for Railway infra.

There is no harm in bullet train but it is only atm the priorities are wrong , The incident that happened in Mumbai could have taken place at any station or any time of the day , it is a common thing to see railways passenger get crushed while travelling or just having to cope if with crowd that is 4-5 times more than the infra we have. It is just that it happened now and there is no gurantee it wont happen in the near future.....Its a dogs life travelling in Mumbai trains except for non-peak hours were it is barely OK

Most of our railways infra are broken and Mumbai Suburban earns most for IR and it gets what it gets imaging for places where these dont even earn enough , So wrong priorities at wrong time in back drop of so many accidents and so many lives lost and still fixing what is broken is not a priority ......It takes a railways minister to do an audit when 25 people are dead when that should have been done much earlier...that is by an large the state of affairs we are in.


there is no room to enhance any infrastructure in places like bombay because every little shit illegally occupying foot path, govt/private land is backed by some politico with some axe to grind.

The infrastructure has simply been overwhelmed with nil chances of growth with the daily incoming economic migration into bombay numbering in their high thousands.

Something had to give. rain water, aka "flooding" is intrinsically tied to the high tide and its ebb and flow and there is no solution for this.

Airports, roads cannot expand because "vote bank" slum dwellers are purposely resettled in these lands by rapacious, rent seeking politicos.


Yes, In India a bit of danda is needed.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 01 Oct 2017 22:53

Usually 5% of pop have criminal mentality in every society. First you have to get the other 95% on board before you use the danda on the criminal 5%. That is what is being attempted with SBM.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arshyam » 01 Oct 2017 23:35

I was in Chennai central yesterday and needed to take a leak. A brightly lit toilet beckoned - 2 rupees, well maintained and clean. Most importantly, no smell. This is in one of the most dirtiest stations on IR. So there is hope.

Another anecdote - family travelling on the Kacheguda-Chennai express reported frequent cleaning and mopping the coaches every hour or so, by the house keeping staff travelling on board. Our people will litter as old habits die hard, but it can be turned around over time. Apparently France was notorious for spitting in the fifties, and a concerted govt campaign fixed it over time.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Gagan » 02 Oct 2017 02:13

Zynda wrote:Amtrak runs a high-speed train service called Acela on its North-East Corridor route (Boston-Wash DC). Not exactly bullet-train but on certain sections, it runs at 150 mph top speed.

The dukh-dard by the west is laughable!
Other than Germany or France, none have a bullet train like project.
They don't have the money or the will (G**nd me dum) to invest those kinds of sums on trains with such high speeds.
There is a crying need for bullet like trains in all western countries, make no mistake. People are at the mercy of the airlines in the US, the road infrastructure is approaching saturation.
A friend of mine just spent 6 hours stuck in a 50 mile traffic jam between Tampa and Orlando, because there is no money for a proposed high speed railway (Not bullet train - just high speed railway)

All of these guys have let loose an army of Drain Inspectors to find fault with others progress

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 02 Oct 2017 18:36

now, aunty wants a bullet train.

but only to connect an airport.


Mamata Banerjee wants a bullet train for Bengal, writes to Centre
The chief minister said on Friday that the state government has requested the Centre to plan a bullet train service between Andal airport in Burdwan district and Kolkata.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 02 Oct 2017 19:36

twitter

Image

9:47 PM - 30 Sep 2017

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 03 Oct 2017 03:22

The "why are we spending money on HSR" issue has been restated many times, questioning the nature of our spending. Let me provide some perspective here.

HSR is somewhat like how independent India spent money on IITs. What was the need for a country with ~20% literacy to spend money on creating MIT level higher institutes of education ? Why not spend all those tens of thousands of crores on basic education ?

But no, reality is not like that. One needs to build the base, and elevate the upper end. We spent money on IITs, and we spent a lot more on basic education too. Pretty much every person here on BRF gained a decent and cheap higher education in India that enabled them to succeed wherever they are now, as a result of those priorities.

HSR is essentially an identical story as far as capital allocation goes. The money set aside for BOM-AMD HSR came in the 2015 Rail Budget. Rs.65000 crore were planned for HSR then, covering the Indian share of the investment on this line, the rest being the JICA loan. But that Rail Budget is famous for something else that every HSR critic prefers to ignore: it planned ~13x as much on non-HSR investment into basic railway infrastructure development. The breakdown is highlighted here:
Highlights of the Railway Budget 2015-16

Code: Select all

PROPOSED INVESTMENT PLAN (2015-2019)
Item Amount (Rs in crore)
Network Decongestion (including DFC, Electrification, Doubling
including electrification and traffic facilities) 199320
Network Expansion (including electrification) 193000
National Projects (North Eastern & Kashmir connectivity projects) 39000
Safety (Track renewal, bridge works, ROB, RUB and Signalling &
Telecom) 127000
Information Technology / Research 5000
Rolling Stock (Locomotives, coaches, wagons – production &
maintenance) 102000
Passenger Amenities 12500
High Speed Rail & Elevated corridor 65000
Station redevelopment and logistic parks 100000
Others 13200
TOTAL 8,56,020

HSR isn't the first , second or even 5th largest spending plan. The order of important by investment commitment is:
1. Network Decongestion
2. Network Expansion
3. Safety
4. Rolling Stock
5. Station Development
6. HSR

Just Safety alone has 2x committed to it compared to HSR. The first two each have 3x the commitment compared to HSR. So, why the angst about HSR ? It's a necessary investment in long term transportation technology, and the amount invested demonstrates that the government has aligned its priorities properly, focusing largely on what matters, and letting some external party put its money into HSR because it's in their interest to win business here.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby ArjunPandit » 03 Oct 2017 03:32

^^Excellent post Suraj sir, such posts need to be put in MSM/SM, to counter the narrative put by kooda (rubbish) kumar. May I do so?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 03 Oct 2017 03:36

Sure, figure out how to condense that into a Twitter post :)

The second HSR line is likely to be Chennai-Bengaluru, with the Germans aiming to win this deal, which would mean that corridor operating the Siemens Velaro trainset.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby V_Raman » 03 Oct 2017 04:57

Chennai-Bengaluru will be a killer. Will be full all the time.

I also vote for Chennai-Trichy to reduce congestion in Chennai.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby RCase » 03 Oct 2017 05:35

chetak wrote:now, aunty wants a bullet train.

but only to connect an airport.


Mamata Banerjee wants a bullet train for Bengal, writes to Centre
The chief minister said on Friday that the state government has requested the Centre to plan a bullet train service between Andal airport in Burdwan district and Kolkata.

I am surprised that she did not propose a bullet train between Rakhine and Kolkota so that the Rohingyas can come and settle down in WB within hours!

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby manjgu » 03 Oct 2017 06:27

Suraj...a) actually spending on IITs and ignoring primary/basic education has been the bane of India. huge sections of the population have remained uneducated and unproductive. Countries which have progressed economically have focussed on creating a good primary/basic education system rather than few elite institutions. Had the huge population which has remained uneducated, unproductive been properly educated ..that would have reflected on better health and general economic prosperity of country. What % of population has benefitted from IIT's is something which needs to be pondered. Hope you get the analogy. Many countries are doing just fine without bullet trains. b) the japanese are giving the loans as they see a benefit for themselves ...if indeed the japanese are so generous why dont they give similar loans for improving general rail infra?? let indian government ask the japanese to give loans even at 1% or 2% as compared to 0.1% for HSR?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 03 Oct 2017 07:29

Mangju, that’s an outcome differential, not a matter of spending priorities gone haywire. In raw terms, the money spent on basic education far exceeded any allocation to IITs . All major technological powers invested both in primary and tertiary education .

The issue with primary education is that outcomes from spending were poor . And the requirement of building world class tertiary education does not go away regardless of what the state of primary education is . These are orthogonal matters, same as how we shouldn’t stop spending on ISRO just because we are poor .

Details are best discussed in the education thread , not here .

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 03 Oct 2017 08:32

Suraj wrote:Sure, figure out how to condense that into a Twitter post :)

The second HSR line is likely to be Chennai-Bengaluru, with the Germans aiming to win this deal, which would mean that corridor operating the Siemens Velaro trainset.


Would be nice to see that white beauty, my favorite HSR trainset. But I am sure, the IR will see that the Mum-Ah'bad and Chennai-Bang lines are of the same gauge. Because both lines are a part of the Delhi-Mumbai-Bang-Chennai Diamond Quadrilateral line.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Javee » 03 Oct 2017 12:24

Suraj wrote:Sure, figure out how to condense that into a Twitter post :)

The second HSR line is likely to be Chennai-Bengaluru, with the Germans aiming to win this deal, which would mean that corridor operating the Siemens Velaro trainset.

Do we need 2 different HSR train sets? Or this is more like tech demo and based on operational experience, IR will decide on how they want to expand? Japanese use Std gauge while Siemens wanted to use broad gauge, for inter-operability.

Siemens has done high-speed rail works in Europe (Germany, France, the UK), Russia, China and Spain. High-speed rail can change economic growth, as seen in China, Japan and Europe. India is close to what Europe has done, as it is geographically polycentric. Also, India has 25,000 km of electrified tracks (out of 67,000 km of rail network). So, when you have such a network, you also want to create inter-operability.

Moreover, if you have a high-speed network, you want trains to run limited times a day. Tracks not getting used in the remaining part of the day can be used to move freight. For instance, Germany runs high-speed trains in the morning and freight at night, because they have a common track gauge.

While India is yet to decide on the gauge — though there seems to be a semi-concrete decision to have standard gauge — we feel India would need broad gauge. Otherwise, the high-speed network will exclude the 67,000-km rail network. Also, inter-operability will help lower unit transportation costs for high-speed. In due course, India’s existing tracks need to be upgraded for higher speeds, and inter-operability will help this.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/com ... 781040.ece

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 03 Oct 2017 12:31

Javee wrote:
Suraj wrote:Sure, figure out how to condense that into a Twitter post :)

The second HSR line is likely to be Chennai-Bengaluru, with the Germans aiming to win this deal, which would mean that corridor operating the Siemens Velaro trainset.

Do we need 2 different HSR train sets? Or this is more like tech demo and based on operational experience, IR will decide on how they want to expand? Japanese use Std gauge while Siemens wanted to use broad gauge, for inter-operability.


Siemens Velaro running on the Beijing-Tianjin line is standard gauge. Yes, you can use multiple trainsets, in few YouTube I saw Velaro, TGV on same line in Europe. Chinese HSR has technology and trainsets from Germany and Japan.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby prahaar » 03 Oct 2017 12:40

Thanks Surajji for the link to 2015-2016 budget. Does the HSR in the above refer to speeding up using Gatimaan/etc. or is it related to Bullet Train? I guess it is the former. I think bullet train is a subset of the 65000 crores?

Added later: Found the information. BT is not allotted any specific budget from IR other than studies and project planning in this document.

Bullet train: Feasibility study for High Speed Rail between Mumbai-Ahmadabad is in advanced stage and report expected by the mid of this year. For other high speed routes on the diamond quadrilateral, studies are being commissioned.


Most of the money will go into improving goods transport and 9 corridors.

This was my understanding as well. Making BT as the cause of all IR problems is a major communications failure by Railway Ministry in particular and GOI. According to a person in the construction of infrastructure projects, irrespective of the cost and complexity of projects (2000 crore versus 200 crores), the overheads in terms of project management/execution complexity are significantly similar in India. This probably reduces the speed of delivery.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 03 Oct 2017 18:50

Javee wrote:

Moreover, if you have a high-speed network, you want trains to run limited times a day. Tracks not getting used in the remaining part of the day can be used to move freight. For instance, Germany runs high-speed trains in the morning and freight at night, because they have a common track gauge.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/com ... 781040.ece

"Limited times a day" ? Broad gauge ? That sounds like the antithesis of what HSR should do. Germany had dedicated high speed lines, like the Frankfurt Cologne highspeed line. Freight does not run on those tracks. They do allow HSR to run on regular tracks in places, but not the way the author is arguing. HSR needs to amortize its costs quickly. For that, it needs to run on high traffic segments and run frequently all day. Freight traffic adds higher track loading and fatigue. Very dangerous to run freight on tracks where HSR is blasting through at 350 km/h regularly.

Broad gauge will make HSR costlier. I dont think the authors claims are worthwhile.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 03 Oct 2017 18:52

prahaar wrote:Thanks Surajji for the link to 2015-2016 budget. Does the HSR in the above refer to speeding up using Gatimaan/etc. or is it related to Bullet Train? I guess it is the former. I think bullet train is a subset of the 65000 crores?

Gatimaan is not HSR. It's "semi high speed". HSR budget line item was for Mumbai-Ahmedabad onlee.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby disha » 03 Oct 2017 19:48

Gagan wrote:Other than Germany or France, none have a bullet train like project.
They don't have the money or the will (G**nd me dum) to invest those kinds of sums on trains with such high speeds.


There is a HSR (a.ka bullet train) project in CA., however there are several lobbies who do not want to have the HSR since it will break up the existing cartel. Start with the gasoline or oil companies to everything in between who think they will lose out because of HSR.

All of these guys have let loose an army of Drain Inspectors to find fault with others progress


Money is there and in some parts even will is there., but as you mention the drain inspectors let loose will try to obstruct progress in every which way. Including stating in India that Indians are "not ready" for HSR.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 03 Oct 2017 23:33

Germany is being tapped for Bengaluru-Chennai bullet train at similar rates as Japan.

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 895_1.html

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Rishirishi » 04 Oct 2017 04:11

I heard simmilar stories when they were building the Delhi metro. It can be done, people will litter it down, it is uneconomical. For the Delhi Agra Highway i heard the same lame stories.

Delhi metro is not as well maintained as the Singapore one, but it is still a world class service. Same goes for the highway projects, the airports, etc.

Railways could for example build an elevated train line above the existing one.


chetak wrote:
Austin wrote:You cant really says Japan would not have supported infra of Railways and the funding take or leave was just for bullet trains we did not ask for Railway infra.

There is no harm in bullet train but it is only atm the priorities are wrong , The incident that happened in Mumbai could have taken place at any station or any time of the day , it is a common thing to see railways passenger get crushed while travelling or just having to cope if with crowd that is 4-5 times more than the infra we have. It is just that it happened now and there is no gurantee it wont happen in the near future.....Its a dogs life travelling in Mumbai trains except for non-peak hours were it is barely OK

Most of our railways infra are broken and Mumbai Suburban earns most for IR and it gets what it gets imaging for places where these dont even earn enough , So wrong priorities at wrong time in back drop of so many accidents and so many lives lost and still fixing what is broken is not a priority ......It takes a railways minister to do an audit when 25 people are dead when that should have been done much earlier...that is by an large the state of affairs we are in.


there is no room to enhance any infrastructure in places like bombay because every little shit illegally occupying foot path, govt/private land is backed by some politico with some axe to grind.

The infrastructure has simply been overwhelmed with nil chances of growth with the daily incoming economic migration into bombay numbering in their high thousands.

Something had to give. rain water, aka "flooding" is intrinsically tied to the high tide and its ebb and flow and there is no solution for this.

Airports, roads cannot expand because "vote bank" slum dwellers are purposely resettled in these lands by rapacious, rent seeking politicos.

chetak
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 04 Oct 2017 08:31

Supratik wrote:Germany is being tapped for Bengaluru-Chennai bullet train at similar rates as Japan.

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 895_1.html


This is foolish. We should stick to one technology and one with the max potential for growth as well as future development.

We have already made such serious mistakes previously in importing diverse technologies at different times and being left with a dog's breakfast of a situation to deal with.

Of course, this is the best situation for "agents" to operate in.

many countries are upset that they have not been "given" an adequate share of the Indian "pie" even after mouthing inanities like "we support India's bid for a security council seat" without actually doing anything concrete about it. Countries, particularly like the UK and france seem to think that India is their grandfather's personal property. Have we already forgotten the european role in the koodankulam "anti nuke agitation"??

With japan, our interests have converged momentarily and we tend to forget, in the press of our own self created optics, about how strongly they have supported the pakis in the past, even ignoring the proven paki role in the nuclear proliferation and their "assistance" to the NoKo regime via the nuke black market route while castigating us for our own legitimate, national security oriented nuclear armament and development.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 04 Oct 2017 09:14

chetak wrote:
Supratik wrote:Germany is being tapped for Bengaluru-Chennai bullet train at similar rates as Japan.

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 895_1.html


This is foolish. We should stick to one technology and one with the max potential for growth as well as future development.

We have already made such serious mistakes previously in importing diverse technologies at different times and being left with a dog's breakfast of a situation to deal with.

Of course, this is the best situation for "agents" to operate in.

many countries are upset that they have not been "given" an adequate share of the Indian "pie" even after mouthing inanities like "we support India's bid for a security council seat" without actually doing anything concrete about it. Countries, particularly like the UK and france seem to think that India is their grandfather's personal property. Have we already forgotten the european role in the koodankulam "anti nuke agitation"??

With japan, our interests have converged momentarily and we tend to forget, in the press of our own self created optics, about how strongly they have supported the pakis in the past, even ignoring the proven paki role in the nuclear proliferation and their "assistance" to the NoKo regime via the nuke black market route while castigating us for our own legitimate, national security oriented nuclear armament and development.


+1, Japan actually conveyed its interest in this line as well, as they are investing in the Chennai-Bang industrial corridor. But even with just Diamond Quadrilateral, we'll have the second largest HSR network in the world. Japan may not be able to provide loans for all the network, considering JICA is funding many other infra projects. Therefore, it's best to chose one more "ally" country that's willing to invest. That's what even the Chinese did, started off with Japanese and German tech and they took over HSR once they absorbed the technology.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Supratik » 04 Oct 2017 14:06

Chetak,

HSR is expensive. Loans have to be taken at rates Japanese have given. Even Japs may not be able to fund all HSR. Taking funds from multiple countries for different lines will make implementation faster. The only downside is TOT will become less economical as techs are different.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 04 Oct 2017 16:24

Soft long term loans also means lenders have a stake in our growth and welfare and will generally consider things too large to fail. By establishing ties with japan germany GE and canada rail sectors ( bombardier metro ) we can hope to localize steadily and seek help on non hsr matters also. Btw alstom france is merging its train business with siemens to fight cheen threat in train sector

Its one level below the paki art form of never repaying any loan. All money is jaziya and gifts

What we need is ramp up pvt sector production scale to replCe all icf coaches with lhb mki coaches in a shorter time like 10 years and not miss this mark. Also continue to figure ways to improve sleeper class coaches and all toilets for indic heavy use which can come down with faster intercity trains upto 12 hrs dawn to dusk chaircars and 1000km in 12 hrs nd its not harebrained plans like a 3rd bed in the side berths

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Javee » 04 Oct 2017 17:38

^^in that case, it would make perfect sense to tie Chinese in one of these large projects. 80K crores is not a joke, even for the Chinese, if they provide us loans for the same rate as Japan or Germany. This way we know for sure that they will not fight a war with India for ever.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 04 Oct 2017 18:01

Chinese are loan sharks saar. You really think they'll give loans on terms that we got from Japan. Also, their HSR met with accidents that we know off. They also insist that Chinese workers, contractors work on the project and all.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 04 Oct 2017 19:56

cheen has so far managed to export and deploy its HSR in ankara to istanbul line, with some noises from other east europe capitals.

spain has HSR. i dont know whether its domestic talgo or from others.
italy also has HSR https://www.italiarail.com/frecciarossa

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 04 Oct 2017 19:58

Image

Singha
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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 04 Oct 2017 19:59

every capital and major city in western and central europe is hence linked by trains with top speed of 150kmph plus with perhaps minimum avg of 100kmph.
what they dont have to deal with is masses of people and the need to run 10,000 trains daily.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby sudhan » 04 Oct 2017 20:09

OT, but Spain has a HUGE HSR network, they operate a mix of Siemens (similar to German ICE trains), Talgo (the distinctive platypus looking trains)..

I took one from Madrid to Barcelona.. Quite well equipped and comfortable. Prices slightly higher than in DE.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Suraj » 05 Oct 2017 12:14

Singha wrote:cheen has so far managed to export and deploy its HSR in ankara to istanbul line, with some noises from other east europe capitals.

spain has HSR. i dont know whether its domestic talgo or from others.
italy also has HSR https://www.italiarail.com/frecciarossa

As sudhan said, Spain has a large HSR network - Alta Velocidad Espanola, Spanish High Speed. It's even longer than the Shinkansen network, and second only to China's in length. I've traveled on it quite a bit - Barcelona-Madrid-Cordoba-Seville-Madrid-Valencia-Madrid , using the RENFE rail pass. I got to travel on all three major train systems they run - their own Talgo 350, the French Alstom TGV set and the Siemens Velaros : AVE trainsets.


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