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Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 29 Apr 2017 14:16

i think most of the railway bridges except maybe very newest ones were not built with sustained 150-200km passthrough in mind and have speed restrictions.....maybe 50/75 or xyz but it forces a cycle of slowing down and speeding up which has network effects. in places like north east india there is a bridge every 1km so you can imagine the impact.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 29 Apr 2017 14:28

Singha wrote:i think most of the railway bridges except maybe very newest ones were not built with sustained 150-200km passthrough in mind and have speed restrictions.....maybe 50/75 or xyz but it forces a cycle of slowing down and speeding up which has network effects. in places like north east india there is a bridge every 1km so you can imagine the impact.


Singha ji, I looked up but didn't get much info about bridges having speed limit. I thought trains only slow down on bridges that don't have protective railings to prevent carriages falling down onto rivers etc in case of derailment. Also, when the train is faster, wouldn't it be lighter on the bridge?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 29 Apr 2017 14:47

higher the speed, higher the stress on the bridge and tracks.

searching for speed in this pdf has some clues http://wiki.iricen.gov.in/doku/lib/exe/ ... dgem_i.pdf

due to lack of funds, I would imagine the necessary repairs on older bridges has a backlog...

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 29 Apr 2017 14:55

Looks like we can build bridges fast, am sure many others will be having similar tech, but got to give it to the chinese.
This could have been used for construction metro systems in our cities as well without having to put in place wide barricades leading to traffic jams for 2 3 years.


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 29 Apr 2017 16:29

these are precast bridge sections...I dont know how we do bridges. but for regular metro or flyover constructions on land(incl blr metro) we are using similar looking machinery to carry forward or lift the "slices" into place and these are then bolted together.

what upsets me is this slice based technique which works so well in Elec city 10km flyover and the big BIAL airport elevated expway is not used in the smaller projects in blr

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 30 Apr 2017 08:02

Bangalore-Mysore doubled. Inspection of Srirangapatna section is scheduled for today--- post moving Tipu's armoury. It has taken 14 years for this doubling project to reach fruition. The Tipu business held it up for 5 years if not more.

http://starofmysore.com/mysuru-bengalur ... on-apr-30/

Works moving quickly for third line between Itarsi and Bhopal, with earthworks going on between Hoshangabad and Itarsi. Pillars have come up so that girder launching is even taking place on third line bridge over Narmada which cognoscenti know is just outside Hoshangabad and between H'bad and Bhopal. One of the existing two bridges over the Narmada is British era. Some chappie took this video and you can catch all the action. Note this video, the train has to wait for 8 overtakes, shows you traffic density between
Delhi-Itarsi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S97e7Cth_Ew

Chappies report that earthworks have started between Jhansi-Bina on third line, with Bina-Bhopal third lined,
this will be a major achievement to third line Delhi-Itarsi and beyond. Tripling is sanctioned all the way to Bezwada from Delhi.


Chappies have taken pics of earthworks coming along fast between South Hubbali and Savanur, and all along to Arsikere. The most congested section Arsikere-Tumkur not only earthworks are done in large parts but also track linking finished in many block sections. Work on minor bridges for the doubling is even going on at night. Rapido, rapido!!! It seems Bangalore-Hubbali doubling will meet its 2020 deadline.

Also pillars are coming up fine over the Yamuna at Kalpi for Kanpur-Jhansi doubling, that old Kalpi bridge is British era, I am amazed it is still standing, dates back from 1875. Deadline is March 2018.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby putnanja » 30 Apr 2017 09:00

Problem with Bangalore-Mysore line is mainly congestion at Bangalore city railway station. There simply isn't any more space to run more trains there. There has been moves to take over the Binny Mill area for railway station, don't know how long that will take.

I hope in the meanwhile there are more frequent trains between kengeri-mysore if SBC can't accomodate more. The current number of trains is simply not sufficient

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 30 Apr 2017 12:21

The introduction of the Japanese bullet train technology in India will have wide-ranging economic and social benefits, a report in Nikkei Asian Review said. The bullet train line is proposed to be built between Mumbai and Ahmedabad, two cities 505 kilometres apart, with the help of Japanese ‘Shinkansen’ technology. A bullet train ride is estimated to take two hours and seven minutes between the two cities while the fastest train at the moment, Mumbai-Ahmedabad Shatabdi, takes a little more than six hours. The cost of the high-speed rail line project is estimated to be Rs 1.08 lakh crore.
“A high-speed railway that is safe, comfortable and punctual will give businesspeople just what they need, and it can trigger significant economic development,” Takema Sakamoto, the India representative of the Japan International Cooperation Agency, was quoted saying in the NAR report.
While many say that high-speed railway line is exorbitant for India and its citizens, Sakamoto said India’s current GDP per person is ‘on par’ with that of Japan when it launched the bullet line in 1964. He also said India’s initial investment can be recovered by learning Japan’s methods of raising operational inefficiency. He remarked that areas around the railway stations will also experience economic boom similar to what is being seen with regard to metro projects in the country.
Analysts have said the railway project may not generate revenues thanks to the prices offered by budget airlines on flights between the two cities. Also, the flight take less time compared to the train. Sakamoto said apart from the fare, revenue can be generated from the sale of goods inside the stations as well as from ads and the business activities around the area of the station.
Construction of the project is scheduled to begin in 2018 and completed by 2023. The railway line will begin underground in the Bandra Kurla Complex in Mumbai, then travelling 21 kilometres through a tunnel including a section under the sea and then rising above the land near Thane. Much of the section through Gujarat will also be elevated. There will be a total of 12 stations, eight of which will be in Gujarat.


That's a interesting statistic. This just shows how much Japanese developed in so little time. Mostly because of their culture no doubt.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... ts-report/

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arshyam » 30 Apr 2017 15:42

putnanja wrote:Problem with Bangalore-Mysore line is mainly congestion at Bangalore city railway station. There simply isn't any more space to run more trains there. There has been moves to take over the Binny Mill area for railway station, don't know how long that will take.

I hope in the meanwhile there are more frequent trains between kengeri-mysore if SBC can't accomodate more. The current number of trains is simply not sufficient

Actually, SWR has claimed that even MYS station is too contested and lacks space for expansion, so they can't introduce more trains. Apparently the next station beyond MYS junction called Ashokapuram is to be developed as a second terminal, but I don't know if they have actually started on the work.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 30 Apr 2017 19:36

GM of SWR Agarwal now says that the Binny Mills land swap of 3.3 acres with BBMP is of no use to build pit lines. So why this drama for so many years? Now Agarwal is looking to Bypannahalli to construct pit lines/stabling lines, etc
in 2 years. SWR simply is infected with a disease of poor planning. If they knew Binny Mills was not an adequate solution, why did they waste time with tortuous negotiations with BBMP for the land swap, when they could have concentrated on Bypannahalli aeons ago?

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/600 ... inish.html

Maybe they should think of an underground terminus for "local" trains from Mysore and Chennai and build an office tower on top of this underground terminus.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 30 Apr 2017 20:08

Bypanahalli does have a goods yard with addl space
North of that in orr ramamurthy nagar there is a big loco shed which has space but finctionally unsuitable

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 01 May 2017 10:57

vsunder wrote:SWR simply is infected with a disease of poor planning...


Speaking of planning, could you share a few updates on the progress and the status of the Dedicated Freight corridors? I have been scouring the web, not much news lately.

DFCCIL website is of little help. For instance, this is what they have to say about the progress report

Image

Nothing about the Dankuni section.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arshyam » 01 May 2017 11:35

vsunder wrote:SWR simply is infected with a disease of poor planning.

It's congenital, looks like. When YPR was being developed as an alternative, why did they not go the whole hog and build a 10 PF station? What's with the piddly 5 PF station? There is enough land on the Tumkur road side for at least two plaforms, maybe more if they stagger it a bit northwards like in Chennai Egmore. The station entrance could have been moved little more north from the existing location to where the parcel office is, and use the current parking area for more platforms. Likewise, there is still plenty of space on the other side of the station near the loco trip shed - some imaginative planning can alleviate SBC's problems. With metro connectivity, getting to and fro YPR is not as big an issue as before.

Because of this short sighted approach, BLR is having train starting points at every nook and cranny - Cantt is now an originating point, and maybe KJM (KR Puram) as well in the future. Might as well add BYPL on the list, and revive Banaswadi too. Whereas cities like Chennai and Kolkata managed for a long time due to large terminal stations.

For comparison, SBC has 10 platforms, of which only 3 can be used towards Tumkur, 6 toward MYS (10,9,8,7,6,5), rest are limited to serving the JTJ-MAS line only (1-7). In between is the passenger yard, which means the JTJ side lines are blocked for trains shunting from platforms to the yard and back - they cannot shunt from the MYS side. YPR has 5 of which 3 can be used to start trains, remaining two needed for through trains bound for the city station and beyond, but is marginally better for shunting duties, as all lines are accessible from both sides of the station. Cantt brings in 4, of which only 2 can be used for termination, not sure about the yard capacity here. BYPL has only 2 currently, and they are not full length. The goods terminal if developed will suffer from poor access, unless a skywalk with a walkalator is provided from the BYPL metro station. If the regional/suburban rail becomes a reality, it will have to depend on this infra.

In contrast, MAS central has 12 platforms, and suburban have their own dedicated platforms (13-16, maybe 1 more in the near future). Egmore has 8, +2 for suburban. 3 of them are staggered, i.e. they are to one side of the station not fully parallel to the remaining platforms. But efficient use of available space. Tambaram already has 5 platforms, with 3 more (I think) coming up for the terminal.

To solve SBC's woes, how feasible is it to lay a dedicated 3rd track till BYPL and make it a full fledged yard like Basin Bridge? Remove all in-place maintenance duties from SBC, and convert the yard lines between the current platforms 4 and 5 into 3-4 more platforms? Break up the island 7/8 platform and push it towards MYS, so these can serve both the Tumkur and MAS lines.

Alternatively, move the parcel office to BYPL and YPR, or near the PF7 entrance, and move the station a little bit south. There seems to be a lot of vacant land to the south of the station, between TCM Royan road and Cottonpete road. There is definitely scope for a lot of improvement in place instead of building another "medium-sized" BYPL terminal, however sexy it may appear to be.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 01 May 2017 20:56

^^^^ All interesting suggestions. The only comment I have is that to lay the 3rd line between Bypannahalli and SBC, there is the land problem, much of the current track runs close to boundary walls of military land and/or housing towers, this may not be easy to acquire. There is the proposal to quadruple lines from City station to Bypannahalli but there has been no progress for years. Railways I think never cared much when Bangalore started to mushroom. There is also encroachment issues on Railway land which is quite serious on the Northern spur, Banaswadi etc. Nobody cared and now huge housing towers are in place. It will not be easy to get an integrated rail/Metro network for Bangalore like other large cities have.

@ Kashi There are some videos in the last 6-7 months of track linking completed between Khurja and Bhaupur(Kanpur) in some sections. Generally some fellow taking videos of trains and catches DFC work by accident. There are no electric poles in the video and no systems work seen, signals etc. Also it appears tamping etc of ballast still needs to be done. Maybe this will go fast, but then who knows. Also there are videos of earthworks between Phulera(for Jaipur) and Ajmer on Western DFC (Rewari-Iqbalgarh section). I really doubt that the DFC's will come in on time 2019 December as announced. Certain contracts have not been awarded. Regarding Dankuni, only notifications have happened and they are still in land acquisition mode. If you look the % of civil construction in the chart you posted, in many places, it is just too little to warrant completion by Dec 2019. They have to build a bridge across the Yamuna at Allahabad(line goes South of the city, before Sangam) and for that a few pier foundations have been just sunk. Few reporters ask pertinent technical questions and even fewer go to construction sites. The Hindi news is better and there is a bit more info there. I can try digging a few of these Hindi reports and some of the videos. There are no new drone videos other than from a year ago. There is absolutely nothing videos or otherwise between Iqbalgarh and Vadodara, and Vadodara and JNPT/Mumbai. Also the Punjab part is a black hole. This is going to be a single line from Ludhiana to its junction at Khurja with the EDFC. LA issues forced this problem. Similarly nothing on the connecting line between Dadri and Rewari which involves tunneling through the Arravalli and that too tunneling for double stacked container freight.
In addition there are bridges to be built across the Narmada and Tapti between Vadodara and JNPT/Mumbai
and also smaller rivers. When bridges take 4-5 years to be built in India and tenders have just been issued for these bridges, how can DFFCIL even claim completion by Dec 2019 and latest by March 2020?
All this is massive work, and in 2.5 years it will be done is a tall order. Open faced lying is a hallmark of the bureaucracy. See what is happening with Namma Metro with its 957th deadline.

DFC Corporation has promised to hand over 190 kms (route kms) of Western DFC between Ateli(near Rewari) and Phulera on the Rewari-Iqbalgarh stretch by March next year, thereby being the first commissioned section of Western DFC. This is 380
track kms.
Last edited by vsunder on 02 May 2017 07:23, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 01 May 2017 22:25

Prasad wrote:Pardon me for a basic question. We always hear of british era bridges. How many of these have been, are, will be replaced by 2019? I don't remember hearing about them specifically anytime.


I suppose you are referring to the Setu Bharatam project. This project aims to refurbish 1500 British era bridges and build 208 ROB's at a cost of 30,000 crores, for the refurbishment of bridges component.
I easily anticipate a decade at the rate bridges are built and refurbished in India, to fix 1500 bridges.
Simple fixes could be jacketing the piers, to more complicated ones involving re-girdering the bridge entirely with attendant mega block on a line.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setu_Bharatam

There are a large number of British era bridges carrying trunk traffic between major metros, leave alone branch lines. One can simply name 50 with no problem. After independence when doubling took place a new bridge was indeed constructed for the second line, but the old British era bridge usually a masonry construction still carries traffic. Here are some examples

1. Narmada bridge, Hoshangabad, opened in 1884.
Carries Delhi-Mumbai and Delhi-Chennai traffic.

2. Jhansi-Kanpur, Yamuna bridge at Kalpi, 1889. Second line project going
on, new bridge will be done hopefully March 2018, but old bridge will carry
traffic.

3. Bally bridge/ Dakshineswar, Kolkata bridge to Sealdah, 1922.

4. Godavari river bridge, Mancherial, Delhi-Chennai, 1929, third line bridge
is almost complete, see Google Earth what happens when the third bridge
comes up, will they build a new bridge and replace the 1929 bridge?
The third bridge is part of the Delhi-Nagpur-Balharshah-Kazipet-Chennai third line project.

5. Kanpur-Ganga bridge towards Lucknow, 1880 circa. In my time carried
a Metre gauge line and a Broad gauge line, Metre gauge line was part of NER
from the erstwhile Oudh and Rohilkhand railway. These are all gauge converted
now.

6. Netravathi River bridge, Mangalore 1908, doubling has been done, new bridge
in service since 2013, but old bridge carries down line traffic, Chennai-Mangalore and all
traffic entering or leaving Konkan railway to Trivandrum via Mangalore.

7. The most famous British era bridge of all is Pamban bridge to Rameswaram, 1914

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxRpej-gkWU

E. Sreedharan( Metro Man Sreedharan) first gained fame in 1964 when he very quickly restored this bridge in a near impossible time frame of 50 days after the devastating cyclone that wiped out parts of this bridge and the bridge beyond to Dhanuskodi. It was estimated the repair would take 6 months.

8. Prince Albert (consort of Queen Victoria) viaduct, Bagra-Tawa bridge on Howrah-Mumbai line via Jabalpur. This is a small single line section (7km) over the Tawa river. This is the only single line section on a fully double lined route and causes major traffic problems. This block section is finally being doubled and a bridge is being built over the Tawa river and due for completion in 2018. Board at Itarsi station, regarding Bagra-Tawa to Sonthalai patch doubling and bridge over Tawa river:

https://twitter.com/wc_railway/status/7 ... 56/photo/1

Existing bridge that carries traffic between Mumbai and Howrah is 145 years old.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/new ... 975349.ece

There are a large number of old masonry British bridges between Mangalore and Shoranur
over many rivers in Kerala. Once in a while these bridges fail with catastrophic loss of life
as in the Kadalundi bridge disaster when 57 people died when Mangalore-Chennai mail fell
into the Kadalundi river near Kozhikode in 2001. Also after gauge conversion the Perumon bridge between
Trivandrum and Kochi collapsed in 1988 when Island express was passing over with 105 fatalities.
The cause of that has never been pinned down but structural failure is a strong possibility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kadalundi ... derailment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peruman_railway_accident
Last edited by vsunder on 02 May 2017 17:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby chetak » 02 May 2017 07:56

Railway catering scam: 100gm curd for ₹972, refined oil for ₹1,241 a litre

As per the reply, other commodities procured by the railways included 58 litres of refined oil for ₹72,034 in March 2016, or a litre of refined oil for ₹1,241. It also bought 150 packets of Tata Salt for ₹2,670, or ₹49 per packet instead of its then MRP of ₹15, water bottles and soft drinks were for ₹59 per bottle.



Image

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Avik » 02 May 2017 08:26

vsunder, arshyam - could we have reaped the same benefit as the WDFC by tripling/quadrupling the Delhi-Mumbai via Kota and Ratlam rail line and by doubling the Delhi - Ahmedabad via Jaipur rail line? Given that IR already owns about land on either side of existing tracks, would it have been faster to triple/quadruple existing rail routés than trying to build a separate WDFC.
I understand the point about the WDFC being designed for heavier freight trains through heavier rails and taller catenary, but it seems the pace of construction of the DFCs is way slower compared to what the IR has been able to do for tripling on routes like Delhi-Itarsi and separately the old BNR section in Chattisgarh

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 02 May 2017 09:36

^^^^
The Eastern DFC runs parallel to the existing Delhi-Howrah route /via Grand Chord. But when you approach any large city, Aligarh, Hathras, Tundla, Kanpur etc, DFC will go off into the wilderness and again come back and meet the IR tracks after the city. Logistic parks are all outside the city as land is cheaper and it is easier for trucks to get to a logistic park outside a city and junctions with IR are 4-5 between Delhi and Kanpur say. The Western DFC track runs parallel to Delhi-Ahmedabad line. The area this runs through is sparsely populated and LA is not a major issue, not that I am saying LA is a minor issue, but less of an issue. Other than heavier density rails and double stack containers that you mention, DFC will have no level crossing at all. This means building RUB's and ROB's everywhere. See the drone videos, you will see they are systematically removing every single LC. This will be difficult to do with LA issues in built up areas like the Ratlam route. Probably DFC started with a culture of sloth, after all it was there in 2008 but did nothing for 6-7 years. Modi provided impetus, monitoring and so on and it is not easy for an organization to shake off sloth and get moving quickly. Look at their web site, full of Hindi Prachar diwas, this that and the other, construction pictures of staff canteens from 2014, no updates. IR or RVNL are also not paragons of efficiency in building track and infrastructure. The actual construction of DFC is being done by L&T and Sojitz, Tata and Mitsui etc on Western DFC for example, so obviously one hopes there are high standards of project management. I am not saying construction is inefficient, I am saying that these are massive projects whose scale has to be appreciated, but the time frames for completion being given out by DFC are overly ambitious for projects of this size. If they say they will finish by say 2022, I will not say construction was not efficient, but these are pragmatic schedules . To say it will be done by 2019 etc is simply lying. It maybe they have told the PMO and there is an internal schedule they are working with, and they release these ambitious dates as PR, just like Namma Metro does, but it certainly does not help them when they can be easily pulled up. I mean look at their own data on their website that Kashi posted above? If they are 8% done now do you expect them to be fully done in 2.5 years? Even their most advanced section Iqbalgarh-Rewari is about 50% done in civil construction, then systems etc etc. And that section Rewari-Iqbalgarh they do not say they will hand over next year, only a piece of it Phulera to Ateli of 170km in a 640km section will be handed over in March. So the most advanced section is not going to be done by next year and suddenly everything which is even 8% complete will be finished by 2019. This is total ullu banoing no?

This is the news of the first section to be commissioned on Western DFC

http://www.financialexpress.com/india-n ... 18/550010/

On Eastern DFC they commissioned a small section 56km in Bihar between Durgawati and Sasaram exactly a year ago.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby James » 02 May 2017 10:05

What about the rolling stock for the 2 DFCs? Have they been finalized and where will they be manufactured?

Did a cursory search on this and found this in Aug'16:

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/lo ... hannel=000

Hope they get the manufacturing / procurement done in time, else we will have the corridors ready, but no / inadequate rolling stock to utilize the capacity fully.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Lisa » 02 May 2017 15:55

I cannot find an international thread so have posted here. Kindly move if necessary.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-39776889

Japan's ultra-luxurious train hits the tracks for its maiden journey

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby arshyam » 02 May 2017 22:13

Avik-ji, IR will need both. Passenger traffic already is over-burdening the existing tracks, so adding new tracks will help that. But freight traffic is still left for which capacity needs to be found. Hence, DFCs where possible.

Second thing is, as vsunder saar said, DFCs bypass major cities and junctions. This is really useful as the tracks through existing junctions are congested and require a lot of remodeling work to speed up ingress and egress. This has its own challenges as LA is difficult inside heavily built up areas - might as well bypass the cities for through goods traffic. DFC is only a next step now - why not bypass the existing tracks entirely? They anyway can't take load beyond a point - IIRC, @vsunder saar mentioned the load rating of current tracks sometime earlier - they can be improved for greater efficiency, but difficult to do since the tracks are heavily in use.

Finally it is an opportunity to make use of newer construction techniques to get around speed restrictions that are galore on the existing lines, ghat sections, etc. and pull up goods traffic's average speeds from the miserable ~25kmph of today.

Having said that, these 3rd tracks SP creditably has started on will be solving *today's* traffic congestion. We'll still need a fourth track on the trunk lines in the long run. Coupled with high-speed turnouts to switch traffic seamlessly between "fast" and "slow" lines to at least semi-HS trains can be run efficiently. I hope SP stays at the helm for another 5-10 years - I am certain he will push for that investment.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby rahulm » 03 May 2017 12:32

Pulling in: The all-new AC 3-tier coach. At least 10 design innovations, coach ready to roll out this month


* USB charging ports and reading lights for all berths.
* Ladders with comfortable footrests, additional handles for easier access to the top berth.
* Separate urinals for men in the toilets; foldable nappy-changing tables for babies.
* A GPS-enabled screen in each coach to display the train’s location.


All welcome improvements. My pet improvement - auto closing and opening doors has been left out. It's an important feature to increase safety (people being thrown out of running trains, heroes and heroines trying to board and alight from moving trains, thieves enterinn at night ), punctuality (no exit for abusers of the chain to alight next to their village home) and finally compliance ( dis courage invalid ticket holders from boarding)

Will the coffee vending machine be attended ? If unattended, the lack of a Q and the jostling like cattle at a grain feed will be a pain to get through but free entertainment.

The nappy changing table is a waste when it's easier and more comfortable to change their soiled bubbly apple of their eye on a wide berth. I predict it will,be broken and un usable within a few months by some innovative person locking themselves In The toilet and trying to use it as a free seat or used by the staff to keep used meals . :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby JTull » 03 May 2017 16:16

A rail bridge taller than the Eiffel Tower over the Chenab

Image

In around two years from now, the Chenab river in Jammu and Kashmir will be spanned by the world's highest railway bridge that is expected to be 35 metres taller than the Eiffel Tower.

The massive arch-shaped structure, being constructed at a cost of around Rs 1,100 crore in hostile terrain, will use over 24,000 tonnes of steel and will rise 359 m above the river bed.

Designed to withstand wind speeds of upto 260 km per hour, the 1.315 km long "engineering marvel" will connect Bakkal (Katra) and Kauri (Srinagar).

The bridge forms a crucial link in the 111-km stretch between Katra and Banihal, which is part of the Udhampur- Srinagar-Baramulla rail link project.

"The construction of the bridge is the most challenging part of the Kashmir rail link project and once completed, it will be an engineering marvel," said a senior Railway Ministry official involved with the project.

Slated to be completed by 2019, it is expected to become a tourist attraction in the region. There will also be a ropeway in the bridge for inspection purposes.

Once completed, it will surpass the record of the Beipan river Shuibai railway bridge (275 m) in China.

Steel was the material of choice to construct the humongous structure as it is more economical and able to resist temperatures of -20 degrees Celsius and wind speeds of above 250 kmph.

The Railways will also install sensors on the bridge to check the wind velocity: as soon as the wind speed exceeds 90 kmph, the signal on the track will turn red, preventing train movement.

In order to enhance safety and security, the bridge will be made of 63mm thick special blast-proof steel as the Jammu and Kashmir region is prone to frequent terror attacks.

The concrete pillars of the bridge will be designed to withstand explosions and painted with a special corrosion- resistant paint, which lasts for 15 years.

According to the plan, a ring of aerial security will be provided to safeguard the bridge. An online monitoring and warning system will be installed on the bridge to protect the passengers and train in critical conditions. Footpaths and cycle trails will be built adjacent to it.

It is expected to contribute to the economic development of the state and help in improving accessibility.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby hanumadu » 03 May 2017 16:37

^^I think the design of the bridge will be exactly like this one in china

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby JTull » 03 May 2017 18:32

This is the video on the Chenab bridge


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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 03 May 2017 19:07

To Bank or Not

This is not about Demonetization but an exercise to show some of the peculiar engineering challenges the DFC faces. I shall use data that can be checked. First let us get some simple Physics out of the way. On IR the slope of a track is measured as 1:100, or like on the Bhor ghat towards Pune from Mumbai or Thull ghat out of Mumbai towards Delhi and Bhusawal 1:37 the steepest for Broad gauge in India. This means for every 37m you travel you climb 1m.
Simple trigonometry tells you that the Sine of the angle of the inclined plane is thus 1/37.

Now imagine a wagon of weight W standing on this inclined plane. A simple force diagram using vectors tells you that the component of the weight in the direction parallel to the inclined plane is W/37 if the wagon were on a 1:37 inclined plane like on the Thull Ghat. That is: W/37 is the force the wagon would exert on the coupling. DFC freights are supposed to be 13,000 ton rakes as opposed to 5000 ton rakes on IR currently. On a 1:37 slope this would mean that the force on the coupling with the engine would be 13,000/37. That is about 350 tons. This is double the force that a coupling can stand and so the coupling would break. IR couplings have breaking strength of around 130 tons. So either you provide bankers to mitigate the effects of gravity or provide re-alignment to have 1:100 slope to be within good safety tolerances with or without bankers or do away with 13,000 tonne rakes which plausibly defeats the purpose of the DFC. This problem will become more pronounced when the DFC is set up between Delhi and Chennai, where the slopes through the Chichonda ghat, or Dharakoh ghat in the Satpuras is 1:70. So the force on the leading coupling will be about 13,000/70, slightly less than 200 tons. So if the alignment is close to the current one over which travels GT Express, TN Express etc. bankers would be needed, as they are currently, over these Ghat sections or imminent disaster waits with a coupling that will shear. The point is not that one should not rely on bankers, which provide additional motive power, but you are over the safety regime which will become paramount if for some reason an engine fails. Even if the loading is below critical limits, poor handling of the loco will cause a coupling to break and one will have a runaway goods train, so bankers are usually used to prevent such eventualities in addition to providing motive power.

This is a webpage that gives breaking strength of couplers on IR, maximum strength is 130 tons.

http://railmaniac.blogspot.com/2015/08/ ... ed-by.html

Here is the IRFCA page with gross weights of passenger bogies and wagons. It can be used to calculate Gross Million ton (GMT) weights and decide after how many years 52kg/m and 60kg/m rails need to be replaced as per my previous post. But it also gives us an idea of the force on the leading coupling in a 52 wagon goods train. (52 kg/ m was 550 gross million tons, and 60 kg/m was 800 gross million tons for replacement)

http://www.irfca.org/faq/faq-stock3.html

Let us say we have a 52 wagon fully loaded BOXN rake. Each wagon according to the table above weighs fully loaded 83.3 tons. That is 83x52, roughly 4320 tons. I am going by 52 and things may have changed with maybe 60 wagon rakes nowadays. So on the Thull ghat the force on the leading coupler is 4320/37 about 117 tons. Given the breaking strength in the link above, would you give permission for a freight to go up the Thull ghat without bankers? Now suppose the DFC has to pass through mountainous areas with 13000 ton rakes, say in Central India, over the Satpuras for example, what alignment would you choose, with slopes that put low force on couplers and cause least amount of wear?
Last edited by vsunder on 04 May 2017 08:52, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 03 May 2017 19:21

Why are bankers a problem? Do they not contribute thrust?

Usa and canada mineral trains seem to have locos not just in front and back but middle cluster also

https://youtu.be/u0Yj0xTUTcM

Commonly used in coal areas...they ply over rockies routinely using rear engines

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 03 May 2017 19:41

Bankers do contribute thrust but their most important role is to prevent a train from sliding down an inclined plane if a coupling breaks, this is a very real problem and happens easily by slightly careless operation of the leading loco. A sharp pull and you can break a coupling. You must know the story of Indrayani Express, coupling broke at Lonavala and train slid down the Bhor ghat and reached Karjat in 10mins, of what takes a 1 hour journey, guys were screaming inside the train and people jumped off, got killed/ hurt. It happens.

http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/09/ ... way-train/

Also why would you want to exceed safe tolerances with heavy rakes even if there is a banker? The point of my post is that you cannot just put the DFC over existing alignments and then say we will haul 13,000 ton rakes and the breaking stength of the coupler is 150 tons, but ok there is a banker so we can take care of 200 ton forces on the coupler even though it breaks at 150 tons. You either re-design the couplers and replace them on wagons, or choose alignments which have safe tolerances built in. Most of our ghat sections have catch sidings for this eventuality. Subramanya ghat towards Mangalore on Hassan-Mangalore line at 1:50 incline has numerous catch sidings. The leading loco/s and the bankers have to move in a ballet that is choreographed so that either both pull or both stop. This was done in the old days by using steam whistles, nowadays I suppose the loco pilots are in radio contact except when one is in a tunnel and radio reception is poor. DFC will have Wilmas also known as EOTT, End of Train telemetry and do away with Guard vans/ cabooses. This will be a new feature in India.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-of-train_device

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Singha » 03 May 2017 22:17

Replacing couplings as needed sounds far cheaper and simpler than new alignments

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 04 May 2017 01:18

In the Eastern DFC, between Son-Nagar and Gomoh or rather Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose Gomoh Jn. to give its full moniker after Lalu changed its name(something to do with Bose boarded Kalka mail here on his way out of India towards the Khyber pass and Afghanistan, never to return to India) there lies the Gurpa-Gujjahandi ghat of the Grand Chord with slopes of 1:70. These are the Chota Nagpur Hills with a Jain shrine to one of their tirthankars' atop one of them. DFC will avoid running parallel to the existing alignment and chose an alignment north of the existing one to maintain uniform grades of 1:200. This is the target of all DFC lines never to exceed a uniform grade of 1:200. Wise decision in light of what I computed. Easy on couplings, rolling stock, engines and rail and up you go with a 13,000 tonne rake full of coal from Jharia and Dhanbad.
Last edited by vsunder on 04 May 2017 19:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Avik » 04 May 2017 01:35

vsunder - could the North-South DFC be aligned along the Delhi-Agra- Jhansi-Guna- Indore-Manmad-Daund-Guntakal-Chennai route ?

The Guna section to Indore is now open to traffic, and IR is keen to build the Indore-Manmad track as well. This alignment would avoid the ghats fully, although it would have to bridge the peninsular rivers once it starts traversing south from Manmad. In addition, IR is finally moving to get doubling fully done on the existing Pune-Chennai via Guntakal route.
This alignment goes over relatively less populous, less fertile lands, and land acq should be easier than going through almost any other alignment

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 04 May 2017 03:59

vsunder wrote:DFC will avoid running parallel to the existing alignment and chose an alignment north of the existing one to maintain uniform grades of 1:100.


You mean the planned detour via Koderma?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 04 May 2017 04:29

Kashi wrote:
vsunder wrote:DFC will avoid running parallel to the existing alignment and chose an alignment north of the existing one to maintain uniform grades of 1:100.


You mean the planned detour via Koderma?


No, I mean before Koderma, exactly between Gurpa and Gujhandi as I said. Koderma comes later towards Kolkata, after Gujhandi. There was some issue here of acquiring forest land and I am not sure this has been sorted out. If you look at DFC maps, you will see a bump northwards in this ghat section.

Avik wrote:vsunder - could the North-South DFC be aligned along the Delhi-Agra- Jhansi-Guna- Indore-Manmad-Daund-Guntakal-Chennai route ?

The Guna section to Indore is now open to traffic, and IR is keen to build the Indore-Manmad track as well. This alignment would avoid the ghats fully, although it would have to bridge the peninsular rivers once it starts traversing south from Manmad.

DFC has enough worries on its plate now. These are projects far out for the moment, with modern GIS and satellite based imaging, I am sure they will figure out an alignment. Right now there are no maps for this North-South project. With modern construction equipment they can construct viaducts to bridge deep chasms and build tunnels and maintain a 1:200 grade. It just needs determination. So everything at this point is speculation and not productive.

Avik wrote:In addition, IR is finally moving to get doubling fully done on the existing Pune-Chennai via Guntakal route.
This alignment goes over relatively less populous, less fertile lands, and land acq should be easier than going through almost any other alignment


This has hit a bottleneck in this never ending saga of doubling and electrifying Mumbai-Chennai. This also affects the new line Gulbarga-Bidar and the Margutti tunnel for which breakthrough has occured. Doubling between the last remaining sections, Akkalkot Road-Gulbarga, Kurduwadi-Bhigwan has hit the problem of non-availability of sand to make concrete and the availability of ballast, that cannot be secured from Govt. land and needs to be sourced from private entities.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/k ... 199101.ece

Take it for what it is worth, Kharge is a Congressman, The Hindu is what it is and Kharge is the Gulbarga MP.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Dipanker » 04 May 2017 20:16

***Deleted: Reason already posted in Previous page ***
Last edited by Dipanker on 04 May 2017 20:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Karthik S » 04 May 2017 20:22

Dipanker wrote:Railway catering scam: 100gm curd for ₹972, refined oil for ₹1,241 a litre

A recent application filed as a second appeal under the Right to Information (RTI) Act by an activist has revealed that the Central Railway's catering department purchased certain food items to stock their warehouses at several times the maximum retail price.



You are too late, that game is over already.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Gagan » 04 May 2017 20:41

vsunder wrote:No, I mean before Koderma, exactly between Gurpa and Gujhandi as I said. Koderma comes later towards Kolkata, after Gujhandi. There was some issue here of acquiring forest land and I am not sure this has been sorted out. If you look at DFC maps, you will see a bump northwards in this ghat section.

One can see some work being done near Gujhandi, up the chotanagpur plateau, and the alignment runs separate from the existing railway tracks on google earth. They are trying to maintain a smoother alignment, but they have to climb those hills.

They could have taken the DFC from Gaya to Hisua or Nawada, up north, and then come down bypassing the ghats altogether and rejoined at Rajdhanwar then Giridih, Dhanbad, Bokaro etc.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Kashi » 04 May 2017 20:44

Gagan wrote:They are trying to maintain a smoother alignment, but they have to climb those hills.


What about tunneling? Is it being actively considered?

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby Gagan » 04 May 2017 21:03

No tunnels visible yet, they are going all the way up the hills !
Look here 24.520334, 85.451465

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 04 May 2017 21:55

No contracts have been issued for Son Nagar to Dankuni which is to be developed in PPP mode. So how can you see construction? In fact PMO is quite worried about DFC esp. this section as Land acquisition is not yet complete on this section.
Last edited by vsunder on 05 May 2017 00:21, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Postby vsunder » 04 May 2017 22:10

An interview where a deadline of Dec 2019 is given

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 525_1.html


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